Prime Minister Lawrence Gonzi talks frankly about his and the country's challenges in an interview with Steve Mallia.
Do you believe that all the PN candidates stuck to their spending limits during the European Parliament election campaign?
I hope they did. The law is the law and everyone's responsible for his own actions. I think it's time for us to review all these issues. There is a Select Committee dealing with issues related to elections and I hope this issue will soon be addressed because I too tend to agree that the ceilings need to be revised.
So if a candidate overspent, you would want them to declare that when they take the oath.
If they're taking an oath I want them to be perfectly sincere and correct... I hope every single one of them follows this line.
But do you believe that all of them spent within the limit?
It's not an issue of what I believe. I certainly hope so. What I noted is that candidates on the Labour side invested heavily in their campaigns - but that is something they need to explain...
What should happen if it's found that they didn't stay within the limits?
There are the consequences of the law and what happens is established by that; not by what I say.
Were you pleased with the Nationalist Party's European Parliament campaign?
No, not really. But it was much better than the campaign we had five years ago.
What didn't you like about the campaign?
We focused too much on reacting or responding to the Labour Party's negative campaigning. So we had to defend this falsity of the charges on health services and the hypocrisy of the water and electricity charges which Joseph Muscat suddenly discovered one week after the election. If there was any example of a hypocritical way of dealing with politics - of the populism of politics - it is this issue.
He may be hypocritical, but the Nationalist Party messed up the issue.
Messed up is one thing and hypocritical is another. We certainly messed up certain aspects, but we were not hypocritical. We always maintained that (the rates were going up) because of international oil prices. The Labour Party said 'no, so much so that we will reduce the tariffs'. Obviously that is not true at all.
Is Austin Gatt the one who messed it up?
No, I don't think so. This is not an Austin Gatt issue, but a government issue. All of us should shoulder responsibility and it would be highly unfair to pinpoint one individual. Austin has his own way of doing things...
Do you like the way he handled it?
I am critical of Austin on a number of issues, but I repeat that we failed on this collectively.
But did he handle the issue well?
He handled the technical issue in a positive manner. When it came to communication, no. Not just Austin, but all of us could have done a much better job.
He said recently that the rise in water and electricity rates should have been delayed till January. Was this a proposal he had put forward?
He said what we could have done was left the system as it was, which meant that in October the surcharge would have gone up from 75 per cent to 195 per cent. That would have provided us with an immediate shock to the economy in October but then in January we would have reduced that by new tariffs taking it down to 75 per cent.
But Dr Gatt took the decision to introduce it last October.
It was a decision taken by Cabinet, by all of us.
But it was supported by Dr Gatt.
Yes.
Some EP candidates complained because members of Simon Busuttil's team ended up running the campaign. How did you see it?
Dr Busuttil's team joined the party set up. The other candidates were invited to put forward individuals as well.
But one of Dr Busuttil's men was effectively the campaign manager.
That's not quite correct. Our campaign manager was an individual we contracted specifically for this event. I think he did a very good job, even though we'd hoped that the results would have been even better than what we achieved.
Stefano Mallia's role effectively was as campaign manager.
Yes. Mr Mallia was a campaign manager, but he cannot be described as a person within the employ of Simon Busuttil.
He's very closely associated with Dr Busuttil.
Mr Mallia is very close to a lot of people. He's very close to the Chamber of Commerce, the business community...
He's worked for Dr Busuttil, he has business connections with him and he's listed as an adviser to him.
Fine, yes. He's also listed as an adviser to the party and he's an adviser to the business community. He did a good job and his contribution was respected by all the candidates.
Some of the candidates felt - and they expressed it - that there was too much focus on Dr Busuttil.
Yes, I know. There were some who expressed that opinion. But, again, that was a strategic decision taken by the party. We wanted to have a leader of the group and Dr Busuttil was the perfect person to do so. The strategy was that and it worked because he obtained a good chunk of the votes.
But it cost you the third seat.
That's not true at all. The result was the electorate's choice. And the result is what it is. I think it was a fair result at the end of the day. Labour got four and we got two. That's a fair result.
Some people are calling on (PN general secretary) Paul Borg Olivier to step down...
That would be very unfair. Dr Borg Olivier has done a good job and it's a tough job. Let's remember that we fought a campaign on the back of the worst recession in the past 100 years - with Malta fighting hard to retain its competitiveness. I'm very proud of what we've achieved so far. Of course, there are people who are suffering because they lost jobs, but when you compare Malta to other countries we've done a good job. But there's a lot of work that needs to be done.
So you didn't expect Dr Borg Olivier to submit his resignation.
No. Absolutely not. It never crossed my mind. Dr Borg Olivier is doing a good job. I think we've got a tough agenda before us in the next five years...
Are you happy with the way he's running the party, because there have been complaints about that.
I am happy so far. There's a lot of work that needs to be done and Dr Borg Olivier needs to focus with all the people in the party on strengthening our communication with the public.
So you have full confidence in him.
I do, yes.
And you don't think he should be contested next year.
I don't interfere at all with the decisions taken by individuals. If anyone wants to contest me, what authority do I have to stop anybody contesting anybody. But I think Dr Borg Olivier has done a good job in very difficult circumstances.
If he submitted his resignation to you tomorrow, would you accept it?
No. I would ask him to seriously reconsider.
You said last Sunday that the EP election held important significance. What did you have in mind?
The messages that were sent need to be clearly heard by the government, the party and every single one of our ministers, parliamentary secretaries, backbenchers and by all officials... Part of the electorate was protesting against some of the reforms we have introduced. Joseph Muscat has recognised this as well. He enjoys rubbing salt into people's wounds - which proves my point.
I think the electorate's protesting because you haven't introduced various reforms.
Let's start mentioning them: rent reform...
...no one's complaining about rent reform.
I invite anyone to compare whether there has been any government in the past in Malta that has carried out as many reforms in 18 months, some of which are still in the process of happening. Rent reform, local councils, shipyards, the public transport reform which is ongoing and which is moving...
Nothing's actually happened there.
There are reforms that need time to conclude. People cannot accuse the government of being insensitive and bulldozing and then when we take time to consult them, accuse the government...
On Mepa, people expected you to move swiftly. You didn't...
Immediately after becoming Prime Minister I started a consultation process that continued till last February... the process to analyse that has been completed.
Why haven't you listed exactly what you're going to do with Mepa?
Because I wanted to listen to everyone and establish the best decision to take for this reform.
It's been 15 months.
Twelve months of which was consulting people. But I hope no one will now tell the government that we are steamrolling a reform. We will announce everything in July.
Your government is promoting a policy whereby Mepa protects the environment and then your party president is building on land precisely where it is seeking to stop such activity.
The facts are different; in the sense that this is a permit that was issued in 2000 - that was nine years ago. I'm trying to get Mepa to respond to the realities we have today and for the future... We have an economic situation and Mepa needs to pull its socks up...
Your party president is building on land that shouldn't be built upon.
Who says so? Apparently the permit is validly issued. He has now asked the Mepa chairman and auditor to verify it. If there's something irregular, if a permit has been issued that should not have been issued, I will be the first one to ask not just for the withdrawal of the permit but also for the resignation of the person concerned.
Doesn't this harm your cause to try and persuade people that Mepa is a fair, equitable and good organisation?
I've never said that. On the contrary, one of the reforms is to make it fairer, to make it more transparent, more accountable, to ensure it gives people what's due to them.
There are certain ministers and MPs who are expressing disgruntlement. Does this worry you?
It worries me for sure, but on the other hand that's part of life as well. I would prefer to hear the disgruntlement than to have the disgruntlement and not hear it.
Do you like the fact that they're doing it in public all the time?
I don't think they are doing it in public, but even if they are I have no problem with that. I repeat: I would prefer to know what's going on rather than just having yes-men around me. I don't want yes-men around me.
Would you prefer them to go through the newspapers or to come and talk to you in private?
They do talk to me privately and what was published the newspapers was all said to me. So there's no secret there.
Do you like the fact that they air the details of private conversations in public?
If it's a private conversation, then I'd expect people to keep that private and I don't like that at all.
Do you say anything to them about that?
Yes, I do. I tell them that if it's criticism that's valid I have absolutely no problem if it's open to the public because we are, after all, a political party that needs to respond to of what people are telling us. I have always - and ministers know this - argued that the reactions in our parliamentary group are a fair reflection what the reactions outside are going to be. So I've always encouraged them all to speak freely.
Are you going to pacify some of them by extending the Cabinet?
No. That is no criterion for me to take important decisions that are in the national interest. I am not here to give any pacification to anyone. I am not here to give any prizes or appreciation to anyone. A minister is there to be of service to the country, not to himself.
Do some of these people want to be in Cabinet?
All of them. And that's good - as long as it's a genuine intention to be of service to the country.
Are they threatening you?
No. Nobody's threatening me. I am not a person that can be threatened in this sense. I believe that we're all here to serve the country, so there's nobody who can threaten me on any issue.
Are you happy with the size of Cabinet and the way it's operating?
I had promised before the election that there would be a smaller Cabinet with new faces. I kept my promise even though choosing people and leaving others out is always very difficult.
Now, one-year-and-three-months down the line, there are positives and negatives. The positive part is that it's a closer group, it's a more focused group and therefore you tend to get results. But there are disadvantages. There's enormous pressure at EU level, ministers are absent from the Cabinet a lot more than in the previous Cabinet, and of course it makes it more difficult for people to remain in contact with the community; it's tough and therefore I need to analyse the experience as time goes by.
Shouldn't you be enlarging the Cabinet if there are difficulties?
Not at this stage. That's a decision I will have to take eventually if I come to the decision that a smaller Cabinet has not worked. I have not come to that decision; on the contrary, I think a smaller Cabinet implies more focus and more coordination in certain areas. Let's give it some time.
Will you make parliamentary secretaries ministers in this review?
Let's not rush into that area. At the moment this is the Cabinet I have and that I intend to keep. I will examine whether I can give more resources to the existing Cabinet.
A number of people have touted Simon Busuttil as your successor. Do you agree with them?
I have absolutely no intention of moving out from my position and therefore there is no issue as to the leadership of the Nationalist Party. But Simon Busuttil is a valid person. There are other valid people in the Nationalist Party...
Who are they?
I won't start listing names. But there is a long list of valid names.
Like who?
Like all the people around me.
Does it bother you that people talk about a successor to you?
Not really. There's no vacancy, but again, I look at politics long term. I want to see my country preparing for the challenges of the future. I speak about 2015, 2020. So I do look around and see who the new crop are.
Do you think it's healthy to have a discussion about leadership when you're currently in office?
My decision to bring in fresh faces into the Cabinet was precisely to open people up to experiences, for them to grow into their positions. So in a sense this is an ongoing process. I think it's healthy that we support each other by sharing experiences. We're building for the future.
Are you thinking of stepping down?
Absolutely not. I have an agenda that is very ambitious for this country. I proved in my first term that I can take this country to a higher level...
Are you saying categorically that you will definitely contest the next election?
Yes, of course. I know where I want to see Malta in the next five years. I want to take it there and I'm convinced we can achieve it.
Do you think this can happen if people continue to talk about a successor?
I don't think there is talk about a successor...
...Dr Busuttil is mentioned as the successor.
There are people who mention a lot of things. I had gone through this when I became general secretary of the party 13 years ago. So I don't take any notice about that kind of debate that some people might want to put around. There is no vacancy and we are focused on our job... Malta's facing a challenging time. We need to pull our socks up and focus on what the challenges are.
Has Lawrence Gonzi lost the desire to be Prime Minister?
Absolutely not. This is something I enjoy doing...
...you don't look anymore as if you enjoy it.
That's a very subjective way of saying things. I've been Prime Minister now for five years. I believe this is the most challenging time any prime minister has had to face in recent years. The global recession has put enormous challenges on everyone. Look at what's happening in Latvia and surrounding countries. Look at what's happening in big countries like Spain with their unemployment reaching 17 per cent. When you compare where we are and where they are, we are certainly in a very strong position. That's been achieved because I've had a vision that I've implemented. I intend to continue building on that.
Watch excerpts of the interview on timesofmalta.com.