On September 29 at 8.30pm, on its way to its final docking in Mġarr, MV Gaudos was ordered to turn back and pick up stranded passengers, including a livid Gozo Minister Anton Refalo. After a week of unanswered questions, vehement criticism by the Opposition and a call for his resignation, Ivan Camilleri yesterday caught up with Dr Refalo as soon as he left a Cabinet meeting.

You are being accused of not telling the truth?

Let me go... let me go...

Please minister; answer our questions as we have been waiting a week.

What I had to say, I said in Parliament.

Why didn’t you tell the truth?

I’ve said the truth and you know that. The public also knows.

Did you speak to your canvasser, Raymond Borg?

I said the whole truth.

So tell us the truth....

I am telling the truth. I called the duty manager on his phone.

So did you speak to (duty manager) Teddie Pace?

Someone put me through to the duty manager; he didn’t want to speak to me.

He didn’t want to speak to the minister?

No one spoke to me on the phone.

But you have just said that you called him?

Let me tell you what happened. There was someone in charge there (Ċirkewwa) and I asked him who is in charge? He told me it’s the duty manager that gave the order for the ferry to return empty (to Mġarr).

I asked him to put me through to the duty manager. I entered a small room so that this person calls the duty manager. I waited for a long time but the duty manager never came.

At the same time, I went out and called Raymond Borg and asked him why the ship didn’t take on passengers. He told me he didn’t know as he wasn’t working. I returned to the room at Ċirkewwa, asked again to speak to the duty manager and someone came on the phone.

He said... Hello? I asked why the vessel didn’t take passengers aboard and also told him that if the ferry had left he should leave things be. This is all that happened.

I am telling the truth and I don’t have anything to hide.

So did you speak to the duty manager or not?

The person who was in charge there can say...

But who is this person?

The one who was there.

Who? Teddie Pace?

No not Teddie Pace... Mr Pace was in Mġarr.

So why did you suspend Mr Pace over this?

I didn’t suspend anyone as this is not my role. Mr Pace wasn’t at Ċirkewwa because to save on overtime we’ve decided there is no need for duty managers to remain in Ċirkewwa at night. Mr Pace was in Mġarr and he was responsible for the service.

So do you know who you spoke to?

I think I spoke to someone from San Lawrenz.

But what’s his name?

I don’t know.

So was he the duty manager?

No... An official who was second in command... he put me through to the duty manager. You are making mountains out of molehills. I don’t even know the telephone number. He put me through to the duty manager... he told me that he was coming but he never arrived.

So you didn’t speak to Mr Pace

No. I spoke to Mr Borg after and asked him why the ferry had left without any cars or passengers.

Is Mr Borg your canvasser?

No. Mr Borg never came to any of my activities and he never knocked on any doors with me.

But Mr Borg told us that you always call him when you need something?

I call him as I know that he’s always there and he can tell me the ferry timetable because I don’t remember it.

So you never spoke to the duty manager?

No... but then someone came on the line and said ‘Hello’. I asked him why the vessel had left without taking on passengers.

So why did Gozo Channel say in its statement that you spoke to Mr Pace if it’s not true?

Mr Pace made a statement in which he said that a passenger called him from Ċirkewwa.

So you did speak to Mr Pace.

Who else could it have been? I called.

First you said you didn’t speak to him and now you’re saying the opposite?

No... I spoke to someone who said ‘Hello’. I thought it was Teddie Pace, but I don’t know.

So it wasn’t Mr Pace?

I don’t know.

So you don’t know who you spoke to?

No, but I spoke to someone. I just asked why the vessel left without any passengers.

So why did you suspend Mr Pace?

That’s not my area of competence.

You told our journalist on the day of the incident that you were going to suspend who was responsible.

No, I didn’t say that. I told your colleague that it wasn’t fair that people were left stranded. There could have been people with elderly relatives travelling with their medicine. I said this is not done and told her that whoever was responsible should be suspended.

So you did not tell Ariadne Massa that you will suspend who was involved?

I told her that if there was someone responsible, he should be suspended.

There have been calls on you to resign.

I will resign only if there is a reason. I didn’t do anything which merits my resignation. According to the Public Administration Act I can speak to anyone who works within my portfolio. The only thing I asked for was an explanation as to why the vessel left without any passengers aboard. I wanted the queuing passengers to be given a reason. I wanted to tell them that that was normal procedure as it had to dock in the reserved area as this was the policy. No one told me this and I had to give a reason to these people.

So now you’re saying that it was policy that the vessel (in these circumstances) leaves without any passengers?

I didn’t know. No one told me this before. The person responsible told me that the ferry left empty because it had to dock in No 3 (a berth where there are no ramps). If they told me that I would have accepted it. But no one told me this.

So let’s get this right. You didn’t speak to the duty manager but you spoke to someone and you don’t know who he is?

No. They called him to put me through... they told me that he is coming. He came and I asked him why the vessel left empty. I just wanted a reason for this, so that it could dock.

So it was normal practice for the vessel to leave empty?

I don’t know as I’m not the chairman. I only wanted to give the correct information to passengers.

There seem to be a lot of untruths in this story...

But not from me. I am telling the truth.

So did Gozo Channel tell the truth?

I am not Gozo Channel.

But you are responsible.

But am I responsible if someone at Gozo Channel didn’t tell the truth? It is not my competence to interfere in Gozo Channel. I am responsible for what I do and I did nothing wrong.

But Gozo Channel has stated that you personally spoke to the duty manager.

I am telling the truth. The duty manager never answered the phone. It was then that I called Raymond Borg.

Do you know that following your call Mr Borg called theship’s captain?

No, I don’t know anything.

Did you ask him to do this?

No.

So Mr Pace has been suspended for no valid reason.

I won’t go into this.

But you are responsible.

I read Mr Pace’s statement in which he said that he instructed the ship to turn back... and that it was common practice to have all waiting passengers embark.

So the company is wrong.

Investigations are ongoing. But I didn’t do anything wrong except that I asked why the vessel left empty. Not because of me, as I was in no hurry.

The problem is that Gozo Channel is not saying the same thing.

I am telling you what I did. If there is someone at Gozo Channel not telling the truth that is his problem...

But a person has been suspended wrongfully.

It’s not me. What happened at Gozo Channel, what calls were made, etc... I don’t know. I just wanted to know what the policy is. If it exists or not I still don’t know.

So this policy exists.

I don’t know.

We have asked for a copy and it never arrived.

Now they are saying that it exists but I don’t know. I have e-mails saying this.

Can you give them to us?

Yes I will send them to you... but I don’t know who is telling the truth... I am the sacrificial lamb in all this.

You are being accused of not telling the truth?

Let me go... let me go...

Please minister; answer our questions as we have been waiting a week.

What I had to say, I said in Parliament.

Why didn’t you tell the truth?

I’ve said the truth and you know that. The public also knows.

Did you speak to your canvasser, Raymond Borg?

I said the whole truth.

So tell us the truth....

I am telling the truth. I called the duty manager on his phone.

So did you speak to (duty manager) Teddie Pace?

Someone put me through to the duty manager; he didn’t want to speak to me.

He didn’t want to speak to the minister?

No one spoke to me on the phone.

But you have just said that you called him?

Let me tell you what happened. There was someone in charge there (Ċirkewwa) and I asked him who is in charge? He told me it’s the duty manager that gave the order for the ferry to return empty (to Mġarr).

I asked him to put me through to the duty manager. I entered a small room so that this person calls the duty manager. I waited for a long time but the duty manager never came.

At the same time, I went out and called Raymond Borg and asked him why the ship didn’t take on passengers. He told me he didn’t know as he wasn’t working. I returned to the room at Ċirkewwa, asked again to speak to the duty manager and someone came on the phone.

He said... Hello? I asked why the vessel didn’t take passengers aboard and also told him that if the ferry had left he should leave things be. This is all that happened.

I am telling the truth and I don’t have anything to hide.

So did you speak to the duty manager or not?

The person who was in charge there can say...

But who is this person?

The one who was there.

Who? Teddie Pace?

No not Teddie Pace... Mr Pace was in Mġarr.

So why did you suspend Mr Pace over this?

I didn’t suspend anyone as this is not my role. Mr Pace wasn’t at Ċirkewwa because to save on overtime we’ve decided there is no need for duty managers to remain in Ċirkewwa at night. Mr Pace was in Mġarr and he was responsible for the service.

So do you know who you spoke to?

I think I spoke to someone from San Lawrenz.

But what’s his name?

I don’t know.

So was he the duty manager?

No... An official who was second in command... he put me through to the duty manager. You are making mountains out of molehills. I don’t even know the telephone number. He put me through to the duty manager... he told me that he was coming but he never arrived.

So you didn’t speak to Mr Pace

No. I spoke to Mr Borg after and asked him why the ferry had left without any cars or passengers.

Is Mr Borg your canvasser?

No. Mr Borg never came to any of my activities and he never knocked on any doors with me.

But Mr Borg told us that you always call him when you need something?

I call him as I know that he’s always there and he can tell me the ferry timetable because I don’t remember it.

So you never spoke to the duty manager?

No... but then someone came on the line and said ‘Hello’. I asked him why the vessel had left without taking on passengers.

So why did Gozo Channel say in its statement that you spoke to Mr Pace if it’s not true?

Mr Pace made a statement in which he said that a passenger called him from Ċirkewwa.

So you did speak to Mr Pace.

Who else could it have been? I called.

First you said you didn’t speak to him and now you’re saying the opposite?

No... I spoke to someone who said ‘Hello’. I thought it was Teddie Pace, but I don’t know.

So it wasn’t Mr Pace?

I don’t know.

So you don’t know who you spoke to?

No, but I spoke to someone. I just asked why the vessel left without any passengers.

So why did you suspend Mr Pace?

That’s not my area of competence.

You told our journalist on the day of the incident that you were going to suspend who was responsible.

No, I didn’t say that. I told your colleague that it wasn’t fair that people were left stranded. There could have been people with elderly relatives travelling with their medicine. I said this is not done and told her that whoever was responsible should be suspended.

So you did not tell Ariadne Massa that you will suspend who was involved?

I told her that if there was someone responsible, he should be suspended.

There have been calls on you to resign.

I will resign only if there is a reason. I didn’t do anything which merits my resignation. According to the Public Administration Act I can speak to anyone who works within my portfolio. The only thing I asked for was an explanation as to why the vessel left without any passengers aboard. I wanted the queuing passengers to be given a reason. I wanted to tell them that that was normal procedure as it had to dock in the reserved area as this was the policy. No one told me this and I had to give a reason to these people.

So now you’re saying that it was policy that the vessel (in these circumstances) leaves without any passengers?

I didn’t know. No one told me this before. The person responsible told me that the ferry left empty because it had to dock in No 3 (a berth where there are no ramps). If they told me that I would have accepted it. But no one told me this.

So let’s get this right. You didn’t speak to the duty manager but you spoke to someone and you don’t know who he is?

No. They called him to put me through... they told me that he is coming. He came and I asked him why the vessel left empty. I just wanted a reason for this, so that it could dock.

So it was normal practice for the vessel to leave empty?

I don’t know as I’m not the chairman. I only wanted to give the correct information to passengers.

There seem to be a lot of untruths in this story...

But not from me. I am telling the truth.

So did Gozo Channel tell the truth?

I am not Gozo Channel.

But you are responsible.

But am I responsible if someone at Gozo Channel didn’t tell the truth? It is not my competence to interfere in Gozo Channel. I am responsible for what I do and I did nothing wrong.

But Gozo Channel has stated that you personally spoke to the duty manager.

I am telling the truth. The duty manager never answered the phone. It was then that I called Raymond Borg.

Do you know that following your call Mr Borg called theship’s captain?

No, I don’t know anything.

Did you ask him to do this?

No.

So Mr Pace has been suspended for no valid reason.

I won’t go into this.

But you are responsible.

I read Mr Pace’s statement in which he said that he instructed the ship to turn back... and that it was common practice to have all waiting passengers embark.

So the company is wrong.

Investigations are ongoing. But I didn’t do anything wrong except that I asked why the vessel left empty. Not because of me, as I was in no hurry.

The problem is that Gozo Channel is not saying the same thing.

I am telling you what I did. If there is someone at Gozo Channel not telling the truth that is his problem...

But a person has been suspended wrongfully.

It’s not me. What happened at Gozo Channel, what calls were made, etc... I don’t know. I just wanted to know what the policy is. If it exists or not I still don’t know.

So this policy exists.

I don’t know.

We have asked for a copy and it never arrived.

Now they are saying that it exists but I don’t know. I have e-mails saying this.

Can you give them to us?

Yes I will send them to you... but I don’t know who is telling the truth... I am the sacrificial lamb in all this.