Monday, 22nd December 2008
Christmas: a subversive feast
Ours is a consumer culture; that is, it is a culture based on having. The more you consume the better and the more you have better still. Our dignity is based on our possessions. As Archbishop Cremona explained in his short message during Milied Flimkien last Saturday, Christianity, on the other hand, is a religion which believes that our dignity rests on who we are and not on what we have: we are the children of God. Christmas is the basic proof of all this.
Vatican II in the Pastoral Constitution "Gaudium et Spes" clearly stated that: "It is what a man is, rather than what he has, that counts" (No. 35). History proves over and over again that a civilization that is purely materialistic will only lead to our enslavement. The essential meaning of our dominion over the world consists in the priority of ethics over technology, in the primacy of the person over things, and in the superiority of spirit over matter.
Having: not an end in itself
Undoubtedly having is important. The Church clearly recognises this. Economic progress has helped the human family, observed the Second Vatican Council pastoral constitution "Gaudium et Spes," (para. 63). It's worth noting that John Paul II has stated clearly: "It is not wrong to want to live better; what is wrong is a style of life which is presumed to be better when it is directed toward 'having' rather than 'being,' and which wants to have more, not in order to be more but in order to spend life in enjoyment as an end in itself" (Centesimus Annus, No. 36).
The Council fathers called upon Christians to let their lives "be permeated with the spirit of the beatitudes, notably with a spirit of poverty" (No. 72).
In "Populorum Progressio," Pope Paul VI warned against regarding "the possession of more and more goods as the ultimate objective" (No 19). In our growth as persons, having more material goods is "necessary," the Pope acknowledged, but they are not to be considered as the supreme good.
Paul VI explained that "the exclusive pursuit of material possessions prevents man's growth as a human being and stands in opposition to his true grandeur. Avarice, in individuals and in nations, is the most obvious form of stultified moral development."
The danger of excess
In 1987 John Paul II alerted the faithful of the danger of an excess of material goods that "easily makes people slaves of 'possession' and of immediate gratification, with no other horizon than the multiplication or continual replacement of the things already owned with others still better" (encyclical "Sollicitudo Rei Socialis." No. 28).
This type of consumerism, noted the Pope, leads to "in the first place a crass materialism and, at the same time, a radical dissatisfaction, because one quickly learns -- unless one is shielded from the flood of publicity and the ceaseless and tempting offers of products -- that the more one possesses the more one wants, while deeper aspirations remain unsatisfied and perhaps even stifled."
Error of consumerism
In his 1991 encyclical "Centesimus Annus," John Paul II once more the Pope asked Christians to avoid falling into the error of consumerism, where "people are ensnared in a web of false and superficial gratifications rather than being helped to experience their personhood in an authentic and concrete way" (No. 41).
"Centesimus Annus" explains that an authentic way of living is done by "obedience to the truth about God and man." In this way a person will "order his needs and desires" and "choose the means of satisfying them according to a correct scale of values, so that the ownership of things may become an occasion of growth for him."
John Paul II also recommended "a concrete commitment to solidarity and charity" (No. 49) and a simpler lifestyle. In his message for the World Day of Peace in 1993, the Pope called for more attention to the needs of the poor. The consumer society, commented John Paul II, makes more evident the gap separating rich from poor and can lead us to overlook the needs of others (No. 5).
The Pope called for the creation of "lifestyles in which the quest for truth, beauty, goodness and communion with others for the sake of common growth are the factors which determine consumer choices, savings and investments." Developing this way of life is by no means easy -- applying the principles of Church social doctrine to particular circumstances is a delicate exercise.
Looked from this perspective Christmas becomes a subversive feast. It subverts the dominant consumerist culture showing its grave short comings. Christmas though proposes an alternative way of life that gives greater dignity to each and every one of us. Balancing the spiritual meaning of Christmas with its more-worldly celebration is no easy task. The Church by no means condemns having a good time, but it does warn against excessive materialism. But this is the season to try.
Gejtu’s riveting story
Gejtu Vella, the Secretary General, writing in The Times of Saturday gave a riveting story of a 26 year old man living in poverty. The piece is called Christmas with dignity and can be accessed from http://www.timesofmalta.com/articles/view/20081220/opinion/a-christmas-with-dignity .
In this piece, Gejtu, as a very good trade unionist, gave a voice to the voiceless. The voice that we could read and almost hear as a result is a very powerful one. It is a dignified denunciation of a culture that is not helping the poor as much as it should partly because of the paternalistic stance it takes. The poor are the object of programmes aimed at helping them not the subject of the same programmes.
Gejtu added very few comments of his own. His piece was an appeal to respect the dignity of the poor and to really help them.
Gejtu’s trade union career has always been characterised by a very strong social conscience and whole hearted dedication to help others even at great personal sacrifice.
Well done Gejtu.
I wish all my readers and their families a Happy Christmas.
Till next time I wish you all good bye and good luck.
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Comments
Mary Ann Collins
(A Former Catholic Nun)
http://www.catholicconcerns.com/Rome.html
Here FEAST yourself http://www.rapidnet.com/~jbeard/bdm/Psychology/xmas/celeb.htm
But Like i told already you best need to worry of your salvation rather where a Pagan feast like christmas has started and who started it, as for myself i do not really care who started it or who evolved it, what i really care about is being in full obedience to the Lord not to worldly traditions of men, and in that case neither do i care from where other whatever you mentioned has developed, I am just trying to open your eyes like mine and many others has been opened to the truth! and that by all these traditions of men you are offending your own God that you believe in.
For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ 1 Cor 3:11
The Comforter, the Holy Spirit does His work here on earth as Jesus said He would in John 16, without Him it is impossible to know God.
Christmas?? Constantine?? Rome?? For one, Christmas is pagan and no one can deny that, its roots are pagan and unless the roots are uprooted it can never be holy, no amount of dressing up with Christian names. Secondly, I would humbly like to address C.Busuttil re: his zeal to prove his point against what A.Lombardi wrote, is it really that important to hassle over which emperor or which date? why don't you instead seek to find what Rome represents TODAY? Has it changed since before Christ or after Christ ? in tactics yes but in essence no!!
Once again you are wrong, the translation of the bible derives from a commission of Constantine to Eusebius of Caesarea to have it available to all Christians. The Roman world had two languages Latin and Greek. Since christians did not include only jewish it needed to be translated into latin and greek.
Don't worry I will go happily into the lake of fire, if your God is so cruel he's not worthy of my consideration. My God is a god of love who has preached NOT TO JUDGE OTHERS Wonders of wonders it's you who are going against his teaching. Stop your cut and paste quoting you are not credible.
BA Christians are those that have hijacked the republican party and trying to impose their religious views on the entire american society.
Christians before Constantine had other things to do instead of celebrating Christmas, especially avoiding ending up to the lions. However they did not forget where our Lord was born and generation after generation they kept record where his birthplace was so once free they could honour the place as it deserved.
____________________________________________________________________
Having reproduced your own words my challenge is still open
You have SHORT MEMORY
A.Lombardi (1 week, 2 days ago)
In 313 A.D. the Roman Emperor Constantine supposedly adopted the Christian faith and declared it to be the official religion of his realm. His embracing the Christian Church proved detrimental to true Christianity. Constantine retained the traditional pagan titles, and his coins still bore the figures and names of the old Roman gods
Catholicism was made the state religion by Constantine in the fourth century A.D.
A.Lombardi (1 week, 2 days ago)
The 25th Dec is a feast that the Pagans celebrate the feast of the Sun not the Son.
Constantine retained the traditional pagan titles....
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Now let me make this point, You accuse the Roman Catholic Church for having retained pagan festivities and customs. With your same standard of judgement you can accuse the entire modern society.
Since many aspects of today's society are based on ancient Rome . Creation of law, development of democratic government practices, influences in language, literature, art, infrastructure, and city-planning are all areas where the influences of Roman ideas can be seen.
Should we abolish all what we achieved, because in the past Romans threw barbarians and christians to the lions ?
Would you care point out to me where I said so please thanks?
Well we do not need a pope for direction we have the Pure Lamb Jesus Christ he is our direction, we do not look to the left or to the right we just focus on Him cause that’s what He advised us to, we take His advise ONLY!!! We do not look at men and take advise from men because we fall, we have the Holy Spirit that God granted us with after Jesus left the earth and the Bible as guide too.
Continue......
Well if you think that I or any other BAChristian will be offended calling us a sect you have got an other thing coming, right after Christ resurrected to heaven the apostils and the followers of Christ (please note there was no pope) they used to be called the Nazarene Sect, they were even thrown out of the temples were they could not preach no more, so they had to look for other alternatives. And if it wasn’t for some truly faithful Christians that gave their lives literally and translated the Bible, today we would still not know what does the scriptures says and we would be still in the DARK.
And again I advise you to start looking into your salvation cause you are not a BAChristian, and when your time will come you will be thrown in the lake of fire.
To remind you Jesus said so that if you are not a BA you will not see the kingdom of God !
but your beloved RCC has not told you that you must be and how you will become a BA from the spirit......that should worry you!!!!!!!
Once again you have avoided to accept my challenge and rebut what I wrote therefore I take it that you have made up all what you wrote that Constantine invented Christmas, that he made Christianity the official religion, that he wasn't really a christian, that he continued to issue coins with pagan motives etc etc.
How can you be credible in what you write when I caught you RED HANDED inventing theories to strengthen your flawed arguments.
Once again with regards to Mithras you proof you lack basics, Mithras was NOT a Roman deity but Persian, his cult had adherents among Romans, but it was not part of the Religio Romana.
I prefer to obey the spiritual guidance of the Pope instead of being member of some sect with no direction.
I take it that born again christians invent things, since YOU ARE STILL AVOIDING to rebut my claims after I have tore apart your fabrications.
I am a Christians a true Christian which means a follower of Christ unlike you, you are a papist which means a follower of the pope cause you have to answer to him and you MUST go by his orders otherwise you will be Excommunicated from the church of stone,
we are under NO denomination we have no popes who call themselves holy father, the Only one we have to answer to is The Lord/Jesus Christ, and I am a born again Christian which is Biblical cause that's what Jesus Christ has ordered us to be John 3:3 Jesus answered “Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born again,he cannot see the kingdom of God.” and you are a roman catholic which is nowhere close of being biblical Christ never asked us to be roman catholics or you!!!!!!!!!!!!!;)
So yes i enjoy i enjoy to be in obedience to our Lord in heavens
and you should feel free to be in obedience to your lord of this earth
* Pagan holidays were reclassified as Christian holidays (holy-days).
* December 25th was the "Victory of the Sun-God" Festival in the pagan Babylonian world. In the ancient Roman Empire, the celebration can be traced back to the Roman festival Saturnalia, which honored Saturn, the harvest god, and Mithras, the god of light; both were celebrated during or shortly after the winter solstice (between the 17th and 23rd of December). To all ancient pagan civilizations, December 25th was the birthday of the gods -- the time of year when the days began to lengthen and man was blessed with a "regeneration of nature." Moreover, all of December 25th's Babylonian and Roman festivals were characterized by 5-7 day celebration periods of unrestrained or orgiastic revelry and licentiousness.
December 25th was particularly important in the cult of Mithras, a popular deity in the Old Roman Empire. Robert Myers (a proponent for celebrating Christmas)
http://www.rapidnet.com/~jbeard/bdm/Psychology/xmas/celeb.htm
rebut what I wrote if you can, avoiding it will only confirm that I AM RIGHT and that you have misquoted/invented arguments that have no historical basis.
Since you are avoiding it, all that you have posted is not credible who knows from which source you get it!!!!!!!!!!
Rest assured I am happy in good company with those pagan Roman Catholics and their eastern Orthodox brothers instead of Charles Taze Russell and his followers. Jesus Christ must have failed miserably if he needed this chap to take his message some 1900 years later.
Once again I challenge you to proof me wrong but I see that you have decided to run off
Happy New Year to all those of goodwill and above all to the Holy Father the ONLY VICAR of Christ on Earth.
you said right you are not worth the hassle,
The roman catholic church has not even gave you the true way of your salvation, i know what you are going to say now ,"of coarse she has° if you do i want to see the scriptures leading you to salvation!
Wish you all a blessed in the Lord 2009 without any pagan and men traditions ;)
Taf x'naf A Lombardi li l-Knisja Kattolika Rumana ilha 2000 sena u bl-ghajnuna t'ALLA w tal-MADONNA tibqa hemm turi t-triq tas-Salvazzjoni sa tmiem id-dinja mentri l-knejjes l-ohra wahda wahda jispiccaw fi-xejn u l-anqas haqq il-hin li qieghed titlef biex tipprova tirbah argument wara li sibtek tivvinta fuq argument u issa qed tipprova twaqqa l-argument fuq Father Christmas ghax m'ghandekx skuza biex tahrab minn dak li ghamilt.
IS-Sena t-Tajba lil dawk kollha ta' Rieda tajba
The early church since it had to lived under persecution it could not afford to celebrate on an established date some religious festivity as the Romans would have awaited for such festivity to come along and swoop them all in one goal. And you come out that the early church did not celebrate christmas, come on is it so difficult to understand, they had other things on their mind like avoiding ending up to the lions in the arena.
Please stop telling me that 25 December is not the real date who cares it could have been 25 July what is important is what it represents, the birth of Christ.
Don't tell one of the most admired Saints in the history of the church even by non christians, St. Francis was a fool, when he recreated the nativity scene. Don't tell me you know more about spirituality than the humble saint of poverty from Assisi.
You claimed that he invented the celebration of Christmas besides giving it more importance than Easter. Before Constantine, the christian faith lacked unity in an universal celebration of the religious feasts each diocese celebrated feasts on its own accord.
Constantine after his conversion, always gave Easter great importance to such extent that he and his religious advisors made it possible that this festivity could be celebrated universally with the church on an established calendar date, that each year would be worked out by the Bishop of Alexandria and passed on to all the dioceses of the Empire. Such Importance he gave to Easter that we are still in possession (thanks to the historian Eusebius of Caesarea) of the "Orations to the Saints" that the emperor himself wrote and delivered on Easter Sunday of 336AD.
COME ON take some more courage and try rebut this.
Your problem is that since your church was artificially created you attempt to ridicule the TRUE Roman Catholic church, inventing and fabricating historical inaccurrancies. Besides misquoting the bible and scriptures once again to suite your needs. I don't expect you to understand this.
You Claimed that he continued to issue pagan coins, the only pagan coins issued at the start of his reign are those dedicated to Sol Invictus, whose cult was popular among the military. By 322AD their issue was stopped. Further Coins with Constantine's image have been issued in which the letters XP(which mean Christ) are prominent on a military standard.
Have your misquoted sources failed to mention this !!!!!!!!!!!!!!! We also have the name of the mint that issued these coins for your information it was the one from Siscia(Sisak)
Once again after tearing apart your statements I challenge you to rebut this come take courage make some research.
Further, How is it on the arch of Constantine in Rome, on the dedication inscription at the top of the arch by the senate, there is no mention of any pagan god, but the instead the words "Inspired by divinity" (Instinctu divinitas) have been inscribed. The senate which ordered the erection of this arch was clever enough to follow the emperors policy of being religiously correct towards his subjects. Do you want to rebut this too !!!!!!!!
ONCE AGAIN I CHALLENGE YOU TO STATE WHAT YOU WROTE OR ELSE HAVE THE DECENCY TO STATE THAT YOU DID NOT KNOW NOTHING ABOUT THE SUBJECT YOU WROTE ABOUT AND JUST INVENTED IT OR QUOTED FROM SOME UNRELIABLE SOURCE.
You claimed that Constantine made the christian faith as the official religion of the Roman Empire this IS FALSE it was THEODOSIUS in 392AD some 56 years after the death of Constantine, I CHALLENGE you to rebut this,
Come its historically proven I DO NOT NEED ANY RCC WEBSITE
You Claimed that while he made Christianity the official religion he retained the pagan titles - these pagan titles you make reference to is just ONE TITLE Pontifex Maximus (Supreme Pontiff) Well after his conversion in 312AD he refused ever again to sacrifice to the pagan gods, before and after important battles. Challenge you again, rebut this
You claimed Constantine was not really christian, Give me an explanation for his sister's christian name which means resurrection, his baptism, his children christian education, his father's protection of christians, influence from his christian tutor, his close relatives christian faith, Rebut it !!!!!!!!!!!!!
@ A. lombardi
Don't try to change the cards on the table you stated that -
1) Christmas was invented by Constantine
2) That he retained pagan titles
3) That he issue pagan coins
4) That he made the Chistian Church as the official religion
I have rebutted your claims and you have no answer to come with, except that its not important who created christmas
I quote my references from historians of the calibre of Michael Grant, Edward Gibbon, Julius Norwich, D. G. Kousoulas, Jacob Burckhardt, T. D. Barnes, Furio Sampoli and Marcone Arnaldo and even from ancient Roman historians such as Aurelius Victor and Eutropius,
I DO NOT NEED ANY RCC WEBSITE
The problem with non Roman catholic christians is that you try to legitimate your church and in doing so you try to INVENT historical inaccurancies in attempt to strength your argument.
To such extent that you have (mis)quoted from an epoch in WHICH there were no schisms.
to regard or treat with reverence; revere.
Worship - noun, verb, -shiped, -ship⋅ing or (especially British) -shipped, -ship⋅ping.
–noun
1. reverent honor and homage paid to God or a sacred personage, or to any object regarded as sacred.
2. formal or ceremonious rendering of such honor and homage: They attended worship this morning.
3. adoring reverence or regard: excessive worship of business success.
4. the object of adoring reverence or regard.
5. (initial capital letter) British. a title of honor used in addressing or mentioning certain magistrates and others of high rank or station (usually prec. by Your, His, or Her).
–verb (used with object)
6. to render religious reverence and homage to.
7. to feel an adoring reverence or regard for (any person or thing).
–verb (used without object)
8. to render religious reverence and homage, as to a deity.
9. to attend services of divine worship.
10. to feel an adoring reverence or regard.
Visit the Big Fat Red Lie website here: http://www.northpole.com/Mailroom/
This is what we are teaching our Kids BIG FAT LIES !!!! The First BIG FAT LIE we tell to our children,This website is promoting lies, send a letter to santa asking for presents and stuff wow !!!! don't you hate to live a Lie, Oh but the children loves fantasies!!! will it be that when they hear about the true story of Jesus Christs might grow up to believe it is another Fantasy Story that it was told to them when they are young? I speak with many people now a days intellectual once too who discontinued to believe in Jesus Christ for the same reason that they did Not hear the Truth, they have been fed lies, twisting of scriptures,adding to the scriptures and removing of scriptures, one will only need to start reading the Bible.
I drove by StAnthony s church in Bkara last week and on the front of the church a huge Big Poster of Father Christmas, why? that is the first question one should ask!
Santa Claus as depicted by Thomas Nast in an 1879 issue of Harper's Weekly.
The Santa Claus myth of a fat, white bearded, jolly old man, who wears a red suit, lives at the North Pole, makes toys for children, and distributes gifts to children all over the world at Christmas time, developed from the Roman Catholic veneration of Saint Nicholas. Nicholas
was a real person who lived in the 3rd and 4th centuries in Asia Minor (Turkey). He became the Bishop of Myra and was apparently both generous and popular with the people for after his death various legends surrounding his life arose. Nicholas was declared the patron saint of children by the church. He was venerated (i.e., worshipped) yearly on December 6 by both the Greek and Latin churches. "The celebration of St. Nicholas Day was important for a long time in the Low Countries and Rhine provinces; but the growing concentration of the winter festival on Christmas Day and the rise in importance of the Christmas tree during the last 200 years have caused the St. Nicholas customs to be absorbed into the Christmas celebration" (Encyclopedia Americana, (1953 ed.), 20:313).
What is particularly offensive about the Santa Claus mythology from a Christian perspective is the fact that the Divine attributes of omniscience and omnipresence are attributed to Santa Claus.The popular Christmas carol says:"He knows when you are sleeping;he knows if you're awake;he knows if you've been bad or good, so be good for goodness sake." Santa knows what everyone in the whole world is doing, even in secret. He is portrayed as a coming judge and as having the ability personally to deliver gifts to over two billion children in a few hours. Thus what millions of professing Christians regard as harmless, innocent, and good for their children is nothing less than rank idolatry.The objection that "we know it's not true, therefore it's okay" is unscriptural. The Jews and Christians who were killed for not bowing the knee to idols knew that the false gods were mythological. Santa-god is a myth as are all false gods.
Christians have no more business teaching their children to believe in Santa Claus than to believe in Molech, Ashteroth or Baal.
So C.Busuttil NOT Just KNOW your History but also your Spirituality which all of you call RELIGION!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I see you loosing your energy on who made the celebrations and such which is basically pointless, you see that's the problem all you and many others do is give glory to men of this earth instead of you give the Glory to the Lord, us Christians and when I say us Christians I am not including roman catholics, we celebrate these spiritual feasts in our hearts spiritually not in the flesh because they are spiritual and not of this world, of coarse you wouldn't know what i am talking about . Is celebrating Christmas compatible with our responsibility to speak and live the truth before the world? No, because Christmas is a lie.
The date used to celebrate the birth of Christ, December 25, is a lie. According to the Bible, Jesus was not born on December 25. "And there were in the same country shepherds
abiding in the field, keeping watch over their flock by night" (Luke 2:8). It is common knowledge that shepherds in Palestine came in from the fields before winter. The rainy season in Judea began in late October or early November.
The shepherds would bring their field flocks into the villages before the beginning of the rainy season. Therefore, Christ was born before the first week of November. "It is quite evident that Christ was not actually born in the middle of the winter season. But, on the other hand, do the scriptures tell us what season of the year he was born? Yes, the scriptures indicated that he was born in the fall of the year. For example, our Lord's public ministry lasted for three and a half years (Dan. 9:27, etc.). His ministry came to an end at the time of the Passover (John 18:39), which was in the spring of the year. And so three and a half years before this would mark the beginning of His ministry in the fall of the year. Now when Jesus began his ministry, he was about thirty years of age (Lk. 3:23). This was the recognized age for a priest before he could become an official minister under the Old Testament (Num. 4:3). Therefore, since Christ began his ministry at the age of about 30 since this was in the fall season of the year then thirty years........
.....before this would mark his birth as being in the early FALL, not December 25. If Christians are willing to celebrate a lie and fill Christ's sham birthday with Papist and pagan mythology (e.g., Santa Claus, the Christmas tree, mistletoe, the Yule log, evergreens, etc.), then why should the world believe the church when it really speaks the truth? If you lie about the birth of Christ and gladly indulge in pagan mythology, then when you tell your neighbor about the resurrection of Christ, why should he believe you? By celebrating Christmas you are putting a stumbling block in front of your unbelieving neighbor. Your neighbor could reason that since you speak and live a lie regarding the birth of Christ, you cannot be trusted when you speak about the resurrection of Christ. I've actually had intellectuals say to me, after I spoke to them of Christ's death and resurrection, that they are myths foisted on simple people by the church just like Santa Claus and the Easter bunny (of course, the Christmas lie has gone on for so long that most people accept it as fact). ......
The church must stop denigrating God's inspired, infallible Word by setting up human fantasies alongside divine revelation. Christmas is a contradiction of the biblical account of Christ's birth.
The World Loves Christmas
"[K]now ye not that the friendship of the world is enmity with God? whosoever therefore will be a friend of the world is the enemy of God" (Jas. 4:4). "Love not the world, neither the things that are in the world" (1 John 2:15).
Don't Be Fooled
Paul warns that "Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light" (2 Cor. 11:14). That is why pagan festivals throughout the world are fun days. They are days of fine food, parties, parades, family reunions and gift giving. Satan's goal is not merely to enslave individuals but also to control institutions, cultures and nations. The heathen calendar of "holy days," where pagan festivals are celebrated each year at certain times, is a Satan-inspired tool to habituate whole cultures in covenant rebellion. Satan wants individuals and nations to be enslaved in pagan ritual and darkness. A culture is habituated to paganism when pagan festivals,rites and ceremonies are second nature and unquestioned in that society.
Did you think I was going to believe any info you bring from a RCC website? No!!!!!
all you have to do is Google "Is Christmas Christian?"
How easy it is to invent some historical inaccurancy to strengthen your flawed arguments hoping that it would not be noted !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
BETTER LUCK NEXT TIME
Regarding your question, Dr Saliba already gave you a fine explanation.
I do not know if you know Italian, but BXVI gave an excellent address during one of his Audiences regarding the matter at hand (I did not find it in English)
http://www.vatican.va/holy_father/benedict_xvi/audiences/2008/documents/hf_ben-xvi_aud_20081119_it.html
Saved By Grace through Faith but faith without works is dead the Scriptural way and the Only way!
Ephesians 2:8 For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God,
Ephesians 2:9 not of works, lest anyone should boast.
Ephesians 2:10 For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them.
Titus 3:5 not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to His mercy He saved us, through the washing of regeneration and renewing of the Holy Spirit,
Titus 3:6 whom He poured out on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Savior,
Titus 3:7 that having been justified by His grace we should become heirs according to the hope of eternal life.
Faith without works is dead
James 2:17 Thus also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead.
James 2:18 But someone will say, “You have faith, and I have works.” Show me your faith without your works, and I will show you my faith by my works.
So then we are saved by Grace through Faith then all the good works comes after automatically because we become born of God and created in Christ Jesus for good works.
God's eternal love or good will toward His creatures is the fountain whence all His mercies flow to us; and that love of God is great love, and that mercy is rich mercy. And every converted sinner is a saved sinner; delivered from sin and wrath. The grace that saves is the free, undeserved goodness and favour of God; and He saves, not by the works of the law, but through faith in Christ Jesus. Grace in the soul is a new life in the soul. A regenerated sinner becomes a living soul; he lives a life of holiness, being born of God: he lives, being delivered from the guilt of sin, by pardoning and justifying grace.
Sinners roll themselves in the dust; sanctified souls sit in heavenly places, are raised above this world, by Christ's grace. The goodness of God in converting and saving sinners heretofore, encourages others in after-time, to hope in his grace and mercy. Our faith, our conversion, and our eternal salvation, are not of works, lest any man should boast. These things are not brought to pass by anything done by us; therefore all boasting is shut out. All is the free gift of God, and the effect of being quickened by his power. It was his purpose, to which he prepared us, by blessing us with the knowledge of his will, and his Holy Spirit producing such a change in us, that we should glorify God by our good conversation, and perseverance in holiness. None can from Scripture abuse this doctrine, or accuse it of any tendency to evil. All who do so, are without excuse. (Eph 2:11-13)
You wrote that Christ want his death and resurrection to be remembered and not Christmas...... guess who made the celebration of Easter as we know it....... Constantine or much better the council of Nicea convened by Constantine in 325.
It was the same Constantine who made Sunday as a public holiday since both christians and pagans could relate to it as a religious holiday and therefore living together in harmony.
You also stated that Constantine SUPPOSEDLY adopted the christian faith MUCH to your annoyance his conversion was a gradual one, since early childhood he was exposed to the faith through christian servants at his father's palace. Further his father was the only emperor in the tetrarchy that did not persecute christians at all. One of Constantine's sister was named Anastasia which means resurrection another clear indication of christian influence in his family. Also his mother Helena, his stepmother Theodora and mother in-law Eutropia happened to be all christians.
His principal tutor was Lactanctius a christian philosopher. Constantine's children all received a christian education and Constantine himself was baptized as a christian at the end of his life, a common practice among christians at the time.
Thank you for your explanation. Most helpful.
@ C Busuttil
A Lombardi not only needs to learn his history but how to get on with his fellow human beings. Some of his postings are horrendous
1) Constantine the Great did NOT make Christianity the official religion of the Roman Empire
it was Theodosius in 392AD
2) In 313AD He issued the Edict of Milan which granted religious toleration and at no point in time did make christianity the official religion.
3) He retained pagan titles so not to offend his pagan subjects after all he managed to make christianity and paganism live together peacefully.
4) Constantine while he promoted his new faith did not want to alienate his pagan subjects it would have been a poltical suicide to go against 80% of the Roman world.
5) The coins he issued at the start of his reign bore the image of Sol Invictus and by 322AD their issue was stopped.
6) One of the reasons for which Constantine moved his capital from Rome to Constantinople was because the new capital had to be a christian one from the start.
7) Although Constantine retained the pagan title of Pontifex Maximus, he never sacrificed to the pagan gods not even following his triumphant entry in Rome, after his victorious campaign against Maxentius when everyone expected him to do so on the Capitol.
Please learn your history!!!!!!!!!
You may be alluding to a casual reference by me to the dispute about the relative merits of "good works" and "only faith" for salvation that erupted at the time of the Reformation.
Protestants were very much averse to the practice of rewarding good works (including donations) by the award of indulgences They quoted a passage from St Paul, out of context, to insist that faith by itself was sufficient for salvation and that there was no need for "good works". Nowadays it is generally agreed by most theologians that it not a question of either "faith" or "good works" but that both "faith" and "good works"are necessary and that they complement each other. Taken as a whole, St Paul peached against the Pharisaic hypocritical practice of literal adherence to the "good deeds" ordained by the Mosaic Law without taking on board the message of Christ.
You make too many unfounded assumptions about me. I do ask God for forgiveness and not just since four monhs ago. My favourite prayer which I say several times a day is "God, forgive me, God have mercy on me, thank you Lord". Another is a prayer to the Holy Spirit begging for "right judgement" and "the joy of his comfort and guidance" You are advising me to start doing the things you have only started to do recently but that I have been doing for more years than I can remember.
I was waiting for your post to make some sense of the mayhem posted all day. Truly I tell you, your answers are sound and logical...But most of all they are very creative without being fantastical.
So a question: I read somewhere that Paul has been appropriated by the Protestants especially when it comes to good works. Could you please elaborate, since I find it difficult to comprehend. Thank you.
First of all, Jesus never made any attempt to abolish the law (he didn’t make any difference between ceremonial or otherwise): Matthew 7,17-20: "Do not think that I have come to abolish the law or the prophets; I have come not to abolish but to fulfill. For truly I tell you, until heaven and earth pass away, not one letter, not one stroke of a letter, will pass from the law until all is accomplished. Therefore, whoever breaks one of the least of these commandments, and teaches others to do the same, will be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever does them and teaches them will be called great in the kingdom of heaven.” So even if, for the sake of the argument, one cannot stomach our teachers, bishops and the Pope teaching us how to abide by God’s Law, Jesus tells us that that Law is the will of God.
Matthew 23,23 – Jesus asks the Pharisees to abide by the laws, even those cited as “the ceremonies men added to the law of God's making”.
Jesus himself said: Mat 23:2-3 “The scribes and the Pharisees sit on Moses' seat; therefore, do whatever they teach you and follow it; but do not do as they do, for they do not practice what they teach.”
It has been stated “the religious and lawyers has nailed Jesus to the Cross.” Was Judas a religious or a lawyer? Was Pilate a religious or a lawyer? Were the disciples religious or lawyers? Are we all religious or lawyers? Jesus has forgiven all of them and us on the cross!
Your last comment was spot on Dr Saliba
1 Peter 1:18-19knowing that you were not redeemed with corruptible things, like silver or gold, from your aimless conduct received by tradition from your fathers, but with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot.
John 7:17 If anyone wills to do His will, he shall know concerning the doctrine, whether it is from God or whether I speak on My own authority.
James 1:22 But be doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving yourselves.
2 Peter 1:8 For if these things are yours and abound, you will be neither barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ.
Happy blessed in the Lord 2009
I am not boasting of any superior personal wisdom at all, the wisdom comes of God and not of me, which also you can experience if you humble yourself and ask the Lord for forgiveness and that you will walk His path instead that of yours, i did this 4 months ago and experienced complete transformation, and i did not get the wisdom from men but from the HS, you can read the Bible 100s of times but unless you are granted by the HS you be reading just another book. Jesus said in John3:3 unless one is born again he cannot see the kingdom of God, for you to be BA you must know what ......continue
There is no need to advise me to read the bible daily because I have been doing so for uncounted years before you burst into my life. Unlike you I would never write as if I had some superior personal wisdom, imparted preferentially on me by the Holy Spirit, and which enabled me to interpret the scripture all by myself and rubbishing the guidance of that same Church without whose tutelage you would not even have at your disposal the New Testament books from which you regale us with plentiful disconnected, random quotations to the utter bewilderment of anyone who tried to detect a logical connecting thread.
Your Knowledge is based on nothing but what you have been told, and what you have been told is nothing but a religion, God is not a religion but a Spirit, so its all about Spirituality, Religion is of the Flesh Spirituality is of the Spirit, the religious and lawyers has nailed Jesus to the Cross, cause they thought that they knew the scriptures, but they didn’t cause they did not have the spirit of God within them, Jesus said to them if you spiritually knew the scriptures you would know who I am and who I call my Father and from where I get all this ability to make such miracles. I am sorry but if one does not read the Bible daily and find out what the Lord wants from them you Are going to be misled, cause the Lord will know you from your fruit, you will have excuse cause the Lord will say the he “never knew you”
Matthew7:16You will know them by their fruits.
Matthew7:21“Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven.
The traditions of the elders. mark 7:7,8,9
One great design of Christ's coming was, to set aside the ceremonial law; and to make way for this, he rejects the ceremonies men added to the law of God's making. Those clean hands and that pure heart which Christ bestows on his disciples, and requires of them, are very different from the outward and superstitious forms of Pharisees of every age. Jesus reproves them for rejecting the commandment of God.
What defiles the man.
Our wicked thoughts and affections, words and actions, defile us, and these only. As a corrupt fountain sends forth corrupt streams, so does a corrupt heart send forth corrupt reasonings, corrupt appetites and passions, and all the wicked words and actions that come from them. A spiritual understanding of the law of God, and a sense of the evil of sin, will cause a man to seek for the grace of the Holy Spirit, to keep down the evil thoughts and affections that work within.
So unless you are born again from God repent now and accept Christ you will not be granted the free Grace of salvation neither the HS
Not only were your quotations from Mark not addressed to the Christian community - an impossibility - but they are not even applicable to any subsequent Christianity (exceptin your vivid and distorted imagination, of course).
That shows how much you know about the Bible, if the Bible was written for just those people at that era then the book can be thrown away, the word of God is past present and future and relates to everyone and indeed roman cathacolism is full of traditions of men and differs from the word of God abundantly, now accepting it or not that is entirely up to you and shows also that you do not use the Bible is the guide book of your life as it was intended it to be by God, and if you wish to know if the Bible is really the words of God then you should start living the word and you will see how it will come alive, the word was given to everyone to read as guidelines and the RCC kept it away for many hundreds of years and if it wasn’t for a few brothers and sisters that literally gave their lives to translate the Bible none of us would be able to read it and know the truth.
Thank you.
You have kindly illustrated my objection quite amply since these are only a few comments and certainly not by 'ALL'. I am surprised to see that A Lombardi is not among them since he trampled upon everyone in the name of Christ.
But then there is no accounting for taste.
Good day to you and a happy New Year
I would like to list some comments posted earlier in this blog which might justify my comment which had aroused such an objection.
1. Dr. Francis Saliba @Aldo Gatt: Am I the Saliba you are addressing in your comments? And, please, advise me. Should I address any further comments to a Ms, a Mrs. or a Mr. Aldo? ..... Are you, by any chance, churlishly objecting to my wishing you the love and peace of Christ for which, incidentally I can and I do vouch?
2. Franco Farrugia (4 days, 10 hours ago)
@ Francis Saliba - I will let Aldo Gatt speak for himself. But if I were in his shoes, yes, indeed, I would object to your wishing me the love and peace of Christ - for which, incidentally I do not believe that you vouch for!
3. Aldo Gatt (4 days, 10 hours ago)
Dr Francis Saliba, if you think that questioning my masculinity will upset me (you are so full of love),
Good night!!
I do not know if Ihave already submitted the following comment, but here it is again with minor alteratiions. Yes, blogs are addictive and it is very easy to get carried away especially since you do not know the persons you are addressing your comments to, (except for Fr. Joe, of course). The anonymity makes one bolder and things one normally tends to consider twice before saying, with a few clicks at the keyboard they are committed on the monitor for everyone to read. But I do not think that I made such drastic accusations, after all. I only expected a milder tone. That’s all. What’s the big deal?
Happy New Year to everyone
Here I am posting again for I just read your comment. While I thank you for explaining yourself, you did not say anything new. You excluded Fr Joe from your initial comment but sadly put everyone else in the same basket again. I, too am a philistine in such matters of theological discourse, but I can recognize quality. And I can assure you that some of these comments are of high quality. So if I were you, I would separate the wheat from the chaff.
I am getting used to writing in! I am starting to like it...
Maybe I was rather hasty in lumping everyone in the same basket but am I to be taken to court by that little word "all"? Certainly, Fr. Joe, I did not have your comments in mind for they were quite compassionate, and by the way my taste buds might be overly sensitive and that is why I was moved to utter that comment.
I too feel more enlightened from following this blog since I consider myself quite a philistine in these matters, but I would have expected a more concerned tone, which might have gone down better on someone who apparently has gone through life angry at society in general.
Thank you for your vote of confidence. I must say that I am touched by such feedback which by far surpasses all the poisoned arrows that have been aimed at us from time to time. I must also thank Fr Joe for his kind words earlier...This is starting to sound like one of those saccharine Oscar speeches like the gushing one Sally Field threw at the unsuspecting audience at the 1985 Academy Awards when she cried: "You like me, you really like me!" (I am writing tongue firmly in cheek eh!!!!) At least I am not crying my eyes out like dear Gwynnie when she won Best Actress for Shakespeare in Love.
Yes, as I just said to Peter Bonello, I will continue to post.
Heartfelt thanks for your very positive comments. As my fellow poster Dr Saliba said, your feedback is very encouraging. As long as there is something to say, I will continue to say it whether it is addressed to certain individuals or not.
So I guess I earned my cherry right? And it has a very sweet taste :)
Happy New Year to you and yours.
Please, won't you reconsider?
With geltlemen like Peter Bonello amongst our readership shouldn't we just grit our teeth and press on regardless?
Please!
You're most welcome. Yes, I read all comments pertaining to religion, God and other subjects besides. I am not much of a writer though but as I said I enjoy your comments and the ones by Victoria Grech for both of you are balanced in what you write. Carry on regardless I say. You have my support.
Thank you, kind sir, for the much appreciated words of encouragement. Sometimes I gain the impression that the only readers of these blogs are those only too ready to snap at my heels at the very mention of some trigger words such as Catholic, Christian, religion and, horror of horrors, God.
Honestly I learnt more about Christmas and my religion from this blog this week. I found some comments to be highly informative especially the ones by Dr Saliba and Victoria Grech. I appreciate the former's answers for they are always sedate and well thought out. As for Ms Grech's, as Fr Joe said more than once,her comments are always well studied and powerful...besides having a healthy dash of humour which I appreciate. You don't blame them for putting up a good fight don't you especially when they were defending the very peace and goodwill of Christmas that you mentioned (you know, since it shouldn't exist at all)
Well, Ms Grech has already declared that she will no longer address A Lombardi which is a shame for I learnt a lot from her fine tussles with him. I see that Dr Saliba is still posting. Don't stop, will you Ms Grech? Pretty please and with a cherry on top...
Happy New Year to you and all the readers of this blog.
I am sorry that we did not rise to your expectations...but did you honestly expect some of us to sit idly by while certain people attack the very message of Christmas and everything else that is important to us? My tone was always brisk but it was never bitter.
Lest you think I am picking an argument with you, I am writing this in good faith. Just wanted to set the record straight.
Have a Happy New Year.
Not a single one of your quotations from Mark was addressed at the Christian community.
Sort that out!
If there is someone who needs to sort it out it is yourself.
Mark 7:7 And in vain they worship Me, Teaching as doctrines the commandments of men.
Mark 7:8 For laying aside the commandment of God, you hold the tradition of men the
washing of pitchers and cups, and many other such things you do.”
Mark 7:9 He said to them, “All too well you reject the commandment of God, that you may keep your tradition.
I have been waiting patiently for the tone to change but there is such a bitter undertone from all concerned that it rubs me the wrong way. I always believed that Christmas was all about peace and good will.
Sorry, I give up.
Yes, thank you I have had a very good and a very holy Christmas and yes I often wonder why we bother to reply to Lombardi's disconnected and rambling quotations.
Now that the question has been solved and dropped by modern Catholic and Protestant theologians he has stumbled on the Reformation dispute whether man is saved by faith alone or if good deeds are also necessary. I will let him sort it out for himself!
Happy New Year to you and to all those who have been patiently reading our comments.
John’s Gospel is primarily addressed to a Jewish community: Jews in race but not in the Jewish faith for by the time John wrote his Gospel, these Jews had cut themselves off from the Jewish religion. However, for the trained Jewish ear Jn 1,14 struck MAJOR chords in this manner:
Jews never mention God by name out of respect for they consider him to be ‘Wholly Other’. Instead they mention his attributes: Almighty God (El Shaddaj), Adonai, the Most High (El Eljon), the Word (Memra’), the Presence (Shekinah), the Glory (yeqara). The last three where used by John to demonstrate that Jesus is God at the selfsame time that he became Man.
The Word (memra’) of God became flesh
And dwelt among us (in Greek a verb that has the same roots as shekinah – God’s presence)
And we have beheld his glory (yeqara).
All this to tell us that Jesus became Man!
By praying you will not be saved my friend by doing good works neither! You are saved by Grace through faith it’s a gift of God there is nothing you can do for God that He can save you with and you must know that! Then when you are born of God and He grants you the Holy Spirit then you will do the good works as planed by God for you, meaning the good works God will choose them for you and will be shown to you by the HS, and nothing that you will choose as good works by its what’s planed for you by God.
And sorry I am not condemning anyone here it’s the word of God that condemns.
I hope you had a good Christmas
Why do you still bother to answer such arguments that have more holes in them than Swiss cheese?
As Josiah Bartlet says in The West Wing: What's next?
Acts 3:19 Repent therefore and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, so that times of refreshing may come from the presence of the Lord,
Romans 10:13 For “whoever calls on the name of the LORD shall be saved.”
Ephesians1:7 In Him we have redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of His grace.
1 Timothy1:15 This is a faithful saying and worthy of all acceptance, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners, of whom I am chief.
John 10:9 I am the door. If anyone enters by Me, he will be saved, and will go in and out and find pasture.
John 6:63 It is the Spirit who gives life; the flesh profits nothing. The words that I speak to you are spirit, and they are life.
John 3:6,7 That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. Do not marvel that I said to you, ‘You must be born again.’
Yes, Sir. I do know the simple message of salvation and it was delivered by Christ and spread throughout the world by the Church on his specific instructions - and that is why I humbly pray and expect that I be saved.
If, instead, I were to rely on you I would have to adopt a schizophrenic interpretation of Blind Faith. When you apply that faith to yourself it becomes a desirable and praiseworthy virtue (vide your comment @Victoria Grech of about 20.5 hours ago) but when you accuse others of exercising this Blind Faith (vide your last comment of about 5 hours ago) it becomes a matter of condemnation.
How is that for logic!
For the simple reason that you have been baptised as a baby like i was which is not biblical at all, so the right is not coming from me but from the Bible which contradicts absolutely the doctrine of the RCC, Jesus Christ said we must be born again otherwise we will not see the Kingdom of His Father, and in order to do so one must be adult, cause one has to except Jesus Christ and recognize what He did for you, repent your sins directly to God in the name of Christ this way you are baptized in the Holy Spirit that's how you receive the HS then the first command that Jesus gave is to be baptised in water, that shows that you have died and been reborn in Jesus Christ and to baptised one must be submersed in water not sprinkled, then the Holy Spirit granted from God will lead you and guide you all through your life and will start to reveal all the truth that Jesus has left us with, that is the Biblical way Jesus said so, I am sorry there is NO other way the RCC messed it up!
Part One – to Mr Lombardi, with lots of best wishes for a New Year (pagan that too, but I am sure you'll tell us pretty quick)
This is my last post to you under any circumstance (so savour it like a lovely Christmas pudding)…for I am not getting any younger and frankly your arguments bore me to death.
So Mr A Lombardi… I cannot possibly address you as Mister because it is derived from Magister and Jesus himself said not to address anyone as Master for you only have one Master who is the Messiah… This Jesus sure likes to put a spanner in the works…eh?
What criteria do you use to quote from Scriptures? As far as I know, it was the Community that chose which books are included in the Canon, moreover, the Community was represented by its Leaders…Tsk! Tsk! Lombardi, even your goodself jump to the tune of someone else…not only of the Holy Spirit. If I were you, I’d ask for my money back.
You say that only you have the keys to salvation. Methinks you are a modern day Gnostic.
And you totally missed my Genesis quote.
One last thing: there’s nothing worse for an opponent than an informed partisan…Of course the partisan is moi.
Tata.
Who has given you the authority to decide that it is only you that has truly received the Holy Spirit and that I myself, and the millions of Catholics who share the traditional belief, have been denied that privilege? On whose authority do you claim that it is only you who are in possession of the truth of the Holy Spirit and that the rest of us are in the bondage of lies gullibly believed by us?
You are absolutely wrong about the "Rock" on which Christ built his church. That word (or more correctly Kephas and Petrus) was not actually known to have been the name of anyone before the Christian era and before it was used by Christ as a sort of nickname for Simon Bar-Jona. There are other instances of a new name being conferred to indicate a change in role (e.g. Abram-Abraham). There is an evident pun on the word and Christ could not possibly have been conferring it on himself .
You are so much sticking up for traditions of men and for the roman catholic church that has not even handed down to you the message of salvation the most important thing for you to be SAVED and go to the Father, your neck you should stick out to save your soul rather for traditions of men and a denomination that couldn't care less if you go to heaven or hell!
No Genesis 4:9 there is no message for your salvation i think now you do need to ask priest Borg to help you i would not be surprised that 99.9999% he does not know it either cause i know what his reply would be ! ... you will not find it in the OT but in NT even that you couldn't figure out!
I am sorry but your faith is based on Blind faith i will ask the same question to you Dr Francis Saliba do you know the message of salvation a simple message i am asking here of how you go to the Father !
A Lombardi and others -(shame on you spoiling a child’s birthday party :)
If Christians began celebrating Christmas, by appropriating a pagan feast, it was because the Birth Narratives of the Gospels themselves showed the way into that pagan feast to enlighten it. If pagans celebrated the Birth of the Sol Invictus (the Unconquered Sun), the Gospel writers Matthew and Luke had already underlined in a very clear manner how Jesus was the “Sun visiting us from on high” (Luke 1,78 in the Benedictus). The theme of light in the darkness cannot be missed: the light of glory shining around the shepherds (Luke 2,9), the star for the Magi (Mat 2,2), Simeon describing the 8-day-newborn Jesus in the presentation as “light for revelation to the Gentiles and for glory to your people Israel” (Luke 2,32), Mathew quoting Isaiah 9,2 describing Jesus’ mission as “he people who sat in darkness have seen a great light, and for those who sat in the region and shadow of death light has dawned (aneteilen, same verb as Luke 1,78 of the Rising Sun)” (4,16).
And please don’t say that Christians didn’t celebrate Jesus’ birth as a human being: “But when the fullness of time had come, God sent his Son, born of a woman, born under the law” (Gal 4,4); “We declare to you what was from the beginning, what we have heard, what we have seen with our eyes, what we have looked at and touched with our hands, concerning the word of life--” (1John 1,1 with very clear intertextual links with John’s Prologue). Naturalment ma kienx hemm Christmas Trees u Priedki tat-Tifel u imbuljuta u Christmas Cards u Quddiesa ta’ Nofs il-Lejl u dwal ipetptu … imma li kienu jiccelebraw it-twelid huwa iktar minn ovvju. How could it be otherwise if the most ancient image found in the Julii Mausoleum in the Vatican Necropolis is a 3rd century Mosaic of the Christos-Helios (Christ the Sun) on the triumphal chariot, obviously a celebratory mosaic of Christ, the Rising Sun.
…can I ever stop giving proof after proof from the Gospels and Christian Archeology?
A Lombardi
Wonder of wonders! Paul was a Roman Catholic and he answered to Peter, the first Pope! Tsk! Tsk! Jesus said: “call no one your father on earth, for you have one Father-- the one in heaven” Matthew 23,9; but that darned Roman Catholic Paul said: “For though you might have ten thousand guardians in Christ, you do not have many fathers. Indeed, in Christ Jesus I became your father through the gospel” (1Corinthians 4,15)
So FATHER Joe Borg, being in persona Christi Capitis (if you do not know what this means look it up: God knows you need some research A Lombardi) has a right to be addressed as Father.
As for celebrations pleasing to God, please quote the Bible in its right context!
Isaiah 56,6-7 is more than clear as to which feasts are pleasing to God and how they please him. The Hebrew text of Isaiah is riddled with words that are technical to cult and liturgical terminology!
As for Jesus celebrating Jewish Feasts:
Here’s the proof:
Matthew 26,18; Mark 14,14; Luke 22,11. Mary and Joseph took their 12 year old Jesus (12 years from what … could it be from his birth?) “when he was twelve years old, they went up as usual for the festival” (Luke 2,42); John 7,10-14 –
…hmmmm that dodgy word: Festival…it denotes celebration!
Let me directly answer this gem that you wrote:
You wrote:
“If Jesus Christ wanted us to celebrate his birth he would have definitely made a statement like He did for His Death and Resurrection with His last supper, Jesus Christ wanted us to remember that NOT His birth although His birth comes automatically celebrated everyday for a Christian, we as Christians celebrate Christ Resurrection Everyday cause without it we would have been all a HELL subject!!!!! “
Resurrection from what: from death, I suppose, and how can anyone, including Jesus Christ, die if he were not born as a human being? How can Christ command Christians to celebrate the Eucharist as “this is my body, this is my blood” if he weren’t born (of a woman, under the law – Gal 4,4) a man?? How could the Letter to the Hebrews say: “when Christ came into the world, he said, "Sacrifices and offerings you have not desired, but a body you have prepared for me” (Heb 10,5)?
Go polish another gem.
Its ok I know how you feel I was there too i was a catholic just the same like you are, and i had the same feelings same as you have I have not accepted as you are not accepting but when one truly receives the Holy Spirit like i said before the Holy Spirit does Not Lie! He will show you the truth and the truth shall set you free of any bondage of anything that you have been lied to.
No you are wrong Peter was not the rock the Rock is Only Jesus Christ
Matthew 16:16 Simon Peter answered and said, "You are the Christ, the Son of the living God.”
Matthew 16:17 Jesus answered and said to him, “Blessed are you, Simon Bar-Jonah, for flesh and blood has not revealed this to you, but My Father who is in heaven.
Matthew 16:18 And I also say to you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build My church, and the gates of Hades shall not prevail against it.
This is the ROCK "You are the Christ, the Son of the living God.”
Please note that you have no right to pretend that Catholics do not also "seek the Lord with an open heart" or that we do not practice "free will" - meaning our freedom to accept/reject to act in accordance with the morality preached by Christ (and, incidentally, to accept the consequences of that wise/foolish decision). Over and above that we accept the guidance of the lawful successors of Christ's own chosen "rock". You, on the other hand, prefer to grope about blindly and on your own around a Faith of your own creation. That sounds much more like pride and presumption rather than a genuine "blind Faith".
who needs mulled wine when I have you to warm the cockles of my heart? :P
There you go assuming things...
you know how that saying goes dontcha? when
As for the quote you so persistently ask of me...here it is Gen 4, 9 and it's from the OT too!!!!
And yet you did not tell me how you are to be saved to go to the Father!
Quoting or not quoting scriptures A simple plan of salvation I am talking about here
Nothing but Blind Faith! You only go by what you are told that’s what happens when you do not seek the Lord with an open heart and from your own will.
And if you are BIG enough girl to answer don’t you think that priest Borg is not big enough to answer for himself? And by calling him a priest I am calling him by his profession, a father is not his profession.
regarding your last post to Fr Joe...
How low can you go? You'll be a champion at the Limbo dance and before you hotfoot to write another delicate post it is not the Papist Limbo that has been abolished of late but this:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Limbo_(dance)
You say 'Ha' as if you caught me with my fair hand in the cookie jar... But you haven't :)
Unlike some people, I am not presumptious to tell you which quotes from the Bible lead to salvation for I do not presume to know your situation unlike yourself who presumes that:
1.I have a Christmas tree at the window and horror of horrors one of those ghastly Santas hanging on my balcony
2. I wear miniskirts and tops with whatever hanging out...
Finally, with all due respect to Fr Joe, I do not need him to be my crutch. I am a big girl, I can very well speak up for myself.
Ah this leads me to another thing: you call him 'Priest' in a deregatory way because you say there's only one Father. Freedom of speech does not give you the right to denigrate anybody's profession, whatever it is, even if you do not agree with what one does.
It is not the Biblical quotes that matter at the end of the day because they will remain lifeless unless lived in an examplary manner.
To start with you are not Christians but you are roman catholics, which makes you papists since you all have to answer to the pope to every single detail, Christians means followers of Christ and He is the only we have to answer to, we have no pope to answer to.
Like I said before priest Joe, you should know better, but of coarse you don’t!
What is important for us is to remember his resurrection and He made that a point!
But of coarse you and your church are so blind to the word of God and you make your statements not on Gods words but on your catholic books which are only philosophies of men who are not inspired by the Holy Spirit, and if maybe one day you will humble yourself and repent and seek Jesus Christ with your heart and soul the Holy Spirit will show all the truth, will also make you understand that Christ is actually Alive too.
Ha!! (mis)quotes from the Bible you say!? Hehehe I really would love if you could quote from the Bible and lead me to salvation please and tell me how one is saved! So we can see who is (mis)quoting what here ;) and please feel free to ask you beloved priest Fr Joe Borg if you may wish for help too I am sure he would not mind.;)
Christ did not show any abhorrence for the observation of the Judaic Law. He condemned the dishonest, hypocritical pharisai obsessive adherence to the strict letter of the law whilst ignoring the spirit of the law and the exercise of charity. He did this plainly enough in his reference to the abuse of the korba and the lack of charity in their of the Sabbath restrictions.
I think that there is also another answer to Lombardi. Let us assume that the early Christians did not celebrate Christmas. Does that mean that latter Christians cannot celebrate it and do so with pomp?
I hope you had a good Christmas.
The controversy in this blog stemmed from the blatant declaration that we should not celebrate an important milestone in the history of the world (for many) because the first Christians did not celebrate it. This is a flawed argument.
What we've all missed is that two Gospels, namely Matthew and Luke have the Infancy Narratives in the first chapters of their gospel...where the authors take great pains to show us the significance of such a life-changing event and celebrate it with two wonderful narratives that are re-enacted every year as one account.
Yes, Christmas is subersive but not for the controversy in this blog. The subversion lies in the Christmas story itself. It is particularly highlighted in John 1,14 where he introduced the incarnation and thus turned the whole Jewish religion on its head in one sentence. John's pithy phrase was subversive, radical and earth-shattering and it rocked the boat. It made people re-think their lifestyle, their choices, their comfort zones.
Are we doing justice to John's message? Do we abandon the boat when it starts rocking? Are we Christians only at Christmas time because we haven't understood the subversion?
Please try at least to be consistent in what you write. Initially you wrote "You sure do not need to tell me what the New Testament says ....". A few hours later you contradict yourself by writing " ... and mr Saliba you do need to tell me that we fall under the NT."
What I actually said was that "Christianity is much more concerned with the New Testament account of Christ's subsequent mission ....".
Trust you to take the wrong end of the stick and wave it about.
I told you that even atheists celebrate Christmas...since you kept reminding us that celebrating Christmas is wrong because Christianity appropriated a pagan feast.
I am not stupid to call you an atheist since the writing is on the wall with all your (mis)quotes from the Bible that you've regaled us with from time to time.
To be sure, I hold nothing against atheists for everyone has a right to subscribe to the point of view of their choice. What I hate is when people like you try to bash other people into submission because they do not dot the i's and cross the t's quite like you.
Happy Boxing Day.
Are you calling me an atheist ?
My Saturnalia present to you:
Apparently even Richard Dawkins celebrates Christmas...he's not a killjoy. I am sure you will regale us with some choice comments. Knock yourself out.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/today/hi/today/newsid_7797000/7797077.stm
Thanks :) Apparently I have quite the following (joking) but better not brag too much about it lest the inquisitor du jour A. Lombardi informs us through the holy internet that only God is worthy of a following...
Back to my baccanalia :)
Build a bridge and get over it already.
erm, was the comment about miniskirts and boobs directed at Dr Saliba too? Get ready for the end of the world now for he will blast you till kingdom come hehe
Christmas during the Middle Ages was a public festival that incorporating ivy, holly, and other evergreens. Christmas gift-giving during the Middle Ages was usually between people with legal relationships, such as tenant and landlord.
BUT THEN, WHATEVER IT WAS OR HAS BECOME, SHOULD WE NOT HAVE A MOMENT WERE WE OURSELVES, TO-DAY, SHOULD NOT CONSIDER, THIS CLAIMED MESSAGE OF A GREAT EVENT IN HUMAN MANKIND COULD HAVE REALLY HAPPENED AND BY ANY CHANCE COULD EFFECT POSITIVELY OURSELVES? I WOULD DARE AND HAVE A GO!
The prominence of Christmas Day increased gradually after Charlemagne was crowned Emperor on Christmas Day in 800. King Edmund the Martyr was anointed on Christmas in 855 and King William I of England was crowned on Christmas Day 1066.
By the High Middle Ages, the holiday had become so prominent that chroniclers routinely noted where various magnates celebrated Christmas. King Richard II of England hosted a Christmas feast in 1377 at which twenty-eight oxen and three hundred sheep were eaten. The Yule boar was a common feature of medieval Christmas feasts.
Internet unholy ONLY if you make it, its like any other thing, take cloths for instance, if i see you walking down the street with a very short miniskirt and breast popping out, one would say that you cant be a holy person and vice verca,....and mr Saliba you do need to tell me that we fall under the NT.
No Jesus never liked traditions of men because they always brought disobedience to His Fathers commandments and all of you well know that christmas brings nothing but commercialism and commercialism in the Name of the Jesus Christ these are the morals and approach towards our only dear so loving Saviour Christ Jesus, I and many other true Christians do not need christmas to remember of Jesus neither we need statues, images or any other thing to remind us we have the spirit of God inside of us that every minute of the day and night feel Christ, and neither we need christmas to thing of others and be nice to them and help and be the good example and be the image of Jesus, we walk like this all year round.
It is no business of mine to bring into question anybody's masculinity and I did not question yours. I was only flummoxed by an Aldo having a husband thinking it was a misprint. For the same reason I will not ask the next obvious question suggested by your answer, this time about your husband.
I congratulate you heartily for the vast improvement in your unseasonal mood. By the way I do not know of any God that ever convinced any Church that the world was flat.
No matter what you choose to believe I repeat that I can "vouch for the love and peace of Christ." After all, you yourself agree that the love and peace of Christ do exist only, in your case, it lies far away. In view of your determination to object if I prayed for it to reach you in time for this Christmas I will refrain from provoking you. Allow me to wish that you will continue with your drinking the Season's toasts - in strict moderation of course so as not to affect your driving as well as your reasoning.
I think it is a big mistake to interpret the Bible literally and as you please...many of the quotes you so often spout have to be taken in the context of time, place and to whom they were being said.
A question. Why is it wrong to adopt an ancient practice and Christianise it (i.e. the way Christmas was)? Would you say no to a good meal because it comes from a different culture? If you look at the Bible historically, many of the customs of the Jews were picked up from other neighbouring cultures. God is not against different cultures. Are we not all his creatures? Isn't a blend of cultures more enriching to the whole?
On another note, it would be interesting to have an argument about Creationism.
You sure do not need to tell me what the New testament says ;) and surely you do not need to tell me that we fall under theNT either! Mainly when Jesus did go to feast was to teach in the temple and as i said Jesus was always against the traditions of men cause they always was against His Fathers commands
And you should check your history not repeat what you have been told what i wrote further down is the truth and both of you both JUMPED simply cause you are not in the right yourselves and had put up your Pagan christmas tree and hanged your c father out of the window and told your kids that CF will bring you presents what a nice Fat lie which comand broken ? only to be in one accord with your RCC, the very own church that God told you to get out of in
Revelation 18:4 And I heard another voice from heaven saying, “Come out of her, my people, lest you share in her sins, and lest you receive of her plagues.
Funny you saying that you do not use 'unholy, wordly things'... Horror of horrors, I'm off my mulled wine and pandoro for I am shocked that you use the internet so avidly....it's a den of iniquity crawling with people who like to have a good time.
As I said: Party pooper
By all means carry on with your ranting if this is your idea of a party. Who am I to stop you?
But I do not have the time or the patience to pick at your 'arguments'.
You are trying to minimize the importance of the undoubted historical event of the birth of Christ on some unknown date about 4 BC by entangling it with the adoption of an arbitrary date (25th December) during the 4th century probably as a deliberate attempt to replace the pagan festival of Saturnalia. This was no case of endorsing a pagan custom, assimilating it, and coming to some sort of compromise with paganism as you suggest. On the contrary, it was a deliberate attempt to replace and obliterate the observance of a pagan custom.
Your supposition that Christ, his family and his disciples did not observe the traditional feasts of contemporary Judaism is your invention because there is ample evidence in the New Testament to the contrary. You seem obsessed with quotations from the Old Testament ignoring the fact that Christianity is much more concerned with the New Testament account of Christ's subsequent mission and Christianity's early separation from the stricures of the Old Testament as evinced by the conclusions of the First Jerusalem Council and St Paul's letter to the Galatians Ch 3 v 13 et seq.
Is the God you vouch for the same one that convinced the Church the world was flat?
I suggest you go back to my original comment and as a fellow human being, try and understand why the anger.
Is that Christmas is a Pagan Feast and nothing to do with Jesus Christ birth day and confirms that the Roman Catholic is based and mixed and Pagan worldly traditions of men instead of being the Spiritual church of Christ of what it is suppose to be, instead being so far away from it !
One has to have a Spiritual relationship with Jesus Christ, Roman Catholics need statues and images in order to remember in Christ, we Christians do not need anything of the sort cause Christs spirit is within us and feel His presence every sec of the day Praise the name of the Lord
A m e n
And Btw yes i am a creationist, I believe in a creator, i do not believe that I came from nothing,
Nothing = Nothing
Creator = Creation ;)
That computer you are using did not come from nothing it had a creator
and so did everything around us
Hope that explains it all for you!
May all of you have a Blessed New Year 2009 and may The Holy Spirit show you the Light
The love and peace of Christ, as far as I am concerned, lies elsewhere, very far away.
There is no indication in the New Testament that the early Christians observed Christmas at all. It can be demonstrated in church history that, for probably the first 300 years after the birth of Christ, Christians knew nothing of Christmas celebration. It was only as the Church began to drift from apostolic doctrine and practice into corruption that Christmas began.
In 313 A.D. the Roman Emperor Constantine supposedly adopted the Christian faith and declared it to be the official religion of his realm. His embracing the Christian Church proved detrimental to true Christianity. Constantine retained the traditional pagan titles, and his coins still bore the figures and names of the old Roman gods.
The Church became "the Roman Catholic Church" and its method became compromise with paganism.
The fact of the matter is this the early church did not celebrate Christ's birth, but such celebration only came into the church with the "Christianization" of pagan rites as
Catholicism was made the state religion by Constantine in the fourth century A.D.
There was no "Roman Catholic Church" in the Fourth Century. That name only came into existence after the Sixteenth Century Reformation.
Please excuse me but I am utterly confused by your comment. Am I the Saliba you are addressing in your comments? And, please, advise me. Should I address any further comments to a Ms, a Mrs. or a Mr. Aldo? And what is my connection with the atrocious behaviour of a hypothetical nun for whose very existence you cannot vouch? Which is my "myth" that does not interest you? Are you, by any chance, churlishly objecting to my wishing you the love and peace of Christ for which, incidentally I can and I do vouch?
Please make sure that you have simmered down completely before reaching for the keyboard.
Like in any institution there are the good, the bad and the ugly - but the core principles of the Church remain what they are no matter what an individual member of the Church does. While you may find bad nuns, you will also find good nuns. It's not their problem if you try looking at the bad rather then the good.
Jesus never told us to hate individuals different from ourselves. We should love our neighbours as ourselves. That is a core principle.
@ A. Lombardi - I seem to remember Jesus enjoying a certain wedding celebration. The problems of taking the bible literally...I'd bet you are a creationist as well :)
@Aldo Gatt - I'm sorry you think that the Vatican is a hate-mongering behemoth; perhaps you are thinking of a pre-Vatican 2 Church.Malta should technically be a secular country but the Catholic Church still influences the decisions which are taken by the country's leaders - not because of some mega-conspiracy but since many politicians are themselves Catholics who do not honestly consider certain things to be right. It's your personal decision whether to have a partner or not, but if it goes against a teaching of the Church, you cannot expect the Church to agree with you.
Also remember that the Church is an institution run by men, and men make mistakes. God lets us make mistakes, otherwise we'd all be puppets on a string with no free will and no responsibility for what we do.
Jeremiah 10:3-5 For the customs of the peoples are futile; For one cuts a tree from the forest,
The work of the hands of the workman, with the ax. They decorate it with silver and gold; They fasten it with nails and hammers So that it will not topple. They are upright, like a palm tree, And they cannot speak; They must be carried, Because they cannot go by themselves.Do not be afraid of them, For they cannot do evil, Nor can they do any good.”
Exodus 20:4 “You shall not make for yourself a carved image—any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth;
Exodus 20:5 you shall not bow down to them nor serve them. For I, the LORD your God, am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children to the third and fourth generations of those who hate Me
Bible is your dailybread
Matthew 15:3 He answered and said to them, “Why do you also transgress the commandment of God because of your tradition?
Amos 5:21 I hate, I despise your feast days, and I will not smell in your solemn assemblies.
Amos 8:10 I will turn your feasts into mourning, And all your songs into lamentation;
I will bring sackcloth on every waist, And baldness on every head; I will make it like mourning for an only son, And its end like a bitter day.
On What Day Was Jesus Born?
http://www.hol.com/~mikesch/sukkoth.htm
I scrutinise in vain your comment for any trace of your "love" which you prefer to the "prejudice of others". I found none.
May the love and peace of Christ percolate down to you now and forever.
Malachi 2:3 “ Behold, I will rebuke your descendants And spread refuse on your faces,
The refuse of your solemn feasts; And one will take you away with it.
You wrote: "GOD hated feasts and traditions of men and so did Jesus Christ"
Have a look at this list of Jewish feasts found in the OT
http://www.hol.com/~mikesch/feasts.htm
Since Jesus was a good Jewish lad who lived in a Jewish culture, he celebrated them too.
Don't rain on God's parade :) You are one party pooper and I thought Fr Joe was the spectre at the feast this week with his grim blog.
It's a pity you weren't around at the time of Jesus' birth...you could have PRd for him...thrown him a birthday party and the whole shebang... and like this the Magi would not have taken so long to get to him with them pressies.
Merry Saturnalia it is for you, I suppose :)))
and for the rest Merry Christmas!
I would not normally react to such hatred and bile. I had learnt to keep calm as you can't reason with hatred and prejudice. But the hurt I felt when I saw my mother's pain at listening to her 'sheperd' (so apt a word to describe the followers) talk of her son as one that the good people of the world need saving from. To witness her agony at coming to terms with news that her son's marriage (I refuse to call it civil partnership) is evil was the last straw.
I give up with going on with this facade of celebrating the birth of such loathing. In a country where all radio stations, all media force religion down my throat, I declare myself anti-Christmas. I will shout across the roofs - my love is better than your prejudice.
I did not expect baby Jesus to do anything when He was a baby and neither when he grew up He was not of the sort to make celebrations and neither to make feasts GOD hated feasts and traditions of men and so did Jesus Christ, but apart from that like I said Christ only wanted us to remember His death and resurrection cause that was the important thing for us to be saved and He made sure we will remember that not His birth thats why he made the Last Supper and you should know better as a teacher of the word of God !!
Read my post below "Is Christmas Christian?"
The 25th Dec is a feast that the Pagans celebrate the feast of the Sun not the Son.
Constantine retained the traditional pagan titles....
It brought a smile to my face. A good joke in good taste for this season.
All the best.
You should give it a try ....
Christians at some point decided to join in the fun. Possible this was when Constantine made Christianity the official religion, or when Theodosius made it mandatory. In any case, the people retained all their old and rather pleasant traditions while worshipping this new god. Same with Easter and the eggs and the rabbit - definitely not Christian traditions.
There's nothing wrong there - it's a nice occasion whichever deity you believe in. As the carol goes, "'tis the season to be jolly". Don't try to place restrictions on how and why people should enjoy it. It's supposed to be a joyful event, not a sombre one.
* Merry Christmas *
Until one is Born from God they will remain a silent and almost dead crowd, thats why you will find no spirit at all cause the spirit is sleeping and will not be awaken until they from their heart they turn to God and repent directly to Him and be in full obedience to Him by read daily the Holy Bible to know what He is expecting from them their Spirit will remain DEAD!
Jesus Christ told us to be born again in spirit and Gods promise is to awake our spirit so we will be born of Him he will replace our Heart
John 3:3 Jesus answered and said to him, “Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.”
Ezekiel 36:26 I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit within you; I will take the heart of stone out of your flesh and give you a heart of flesh.
Ezekiel 36:27 I will put My Spirit within you and cause you to walk in My statutes, and you will keep My judgments and do them.
There is no indication in the New Testament that the early Christians observed Christmas at all. It can be demonstrated in church history that, for probably the first 300 years after the birth of Christ, Christians knew nothing of Christmas celebration. It was only as the Church began to drift from apostolic doctrine and practice into corruption that Christmas began.
In 313 A.D. the Roman Emperor Constantine supposedly adopted the Christian faith and declared it to be the official religion of his realm. His embracing the Christian Church proved detrimental to true Christianity. Constantine retained the traditional pagan titles, and his coins still bore the figures and names of the old Roman gods.
The Church became "the Roman Catholic Church" and its method became compromise with paganism.
If Jesus Christ wanted us to celebrate his birth he would have definitely made a statement like He did for His Death and Resurrection with His last supper, Jesus Christ wanted us to remember that NOT His birth although His birth comes automatically celebrated everyday for a Christian, we as Christians celebrate Christ Resurrection Everyday cause without it we would have been all a HELL subject!!!!!
What should drive people during Christmas is the birth of Jesus...the meaning behind it; letting Jesus be born in our hearts, meaning God humilating himself and choosing to be born in my heart, with sin and weaknesses. It is a time of reflection to be united with the people i don't get along very well with; to look inwardly and check where i've grown this year as a person and my relationships with others. I find it so hard to accept the fact that people celebrate Christmas and don't go to mass to celebrate the liturgy for this grand feast; for people to drink and give presents and forget about the true meaning. For going to mass &seeing people barely participating at mass. I wonder how sad priests must feel when celebrating the liturgy with a crowd of people in front of them but which seem to be a silent alomst dead crowd. Very sad indeed.
But not all hope is lost as Jesus will use every good deed to turn it into an example of love, the love he has for us & so very willing to share with us.
And that is a good thing.
Happy Christmas :)