PN deputy leadership candidate CLAUDETTE BUTTIGIEG, the party’s spokeswoman for civil liberties, tells Christian Peregin she is encouraged by the party’s internal discussions on sensitive issues.

Why did you decide to contest for the deputy leadership?

Sometimes in life people around you see you in a way which perhaps you don’t see yourself. This is what happened to me when I started being approached by several people who told me I should consider contesting for one of the highest posts in the party.

Including leadership?

Yes, and I thought this was too soon and too abrupt.

After all, you had just been elected MP for the first time.

I also felt it would be totally misinterpreted as being presumptuous. My immediate reaction was no, but as time went by I understood where this was coming from. It came from reading the electoral result, which told us we need to change. That’s when I realised people were seeing me as part of this change.

I would definitely start by working on the people who voted for us

The role of deputy leader was split in two after you made your announcement to contest. Why did you choose to contest for the position related to party affairs and not parliamentary affairs?

I’m actually thankful the decision was made because when I decided to go for it my biggest worry was how I would handle the parliament-ary issues ... I’m a new MP and there are times I have to turn to my colleagues and ask: what do we do now?

So splitting the role was a weight off your shoulders.

Yes. And to me, party affairs equals people. I’m a people’s person. I like to be with people and listen to what they have to say.

Why should people believe in you, considering you haven’t been actively involved for very long?

I think I’ve been involved longer than people think.

Behind the scenes?

I’m older than you, so you wouldn’t remember me as a student in Church schools fighting for the right to have an education. I also attended what is now Junior College in Msida. Those were the 1980s. But I feel strange talking about the 1980s now because it is not in to talk about those days. That work is done and everybody takes it for granted. But I was there. I was at Tal-Barrani, like many others were. As a student in those days, you couldn’t be indifferent ...

But did you remain involved, for instance, during the discussion on EU membership?

Before we discuss EU membership, I must say I was also the general secretary and equal rights officer at the University Students’ Council, and maybe that’s why most of my colleagues in Parliament, who were also with me at University, see me in certain roles.

Then again, some people remember you presenting Sellili on TV and singing Desire in the Eurovision, so there are also people who might not take you so seriously.

There’s a whole mix but let’s go back to your question on the EU. At the time of the refer-endum I was working at Super One TV purely for commercial reasons and I was also pregnant. I was told to ask questions to some of the guests about the EU issue. The number one question was: why is partnership the best choice?

Did you ask the question?

No, I refused to do that. And that’s where I was giving a political message without going out and waving flags. I refused to do it more than once... By the end of it, I was fired for not doing what I was told. I was actually told that they had received a bomb threat and I had to leave.

I ’ve kept this quiet for a very long time, but you can ask Police Commissioner John Rizzo. I went to his office and he told me that if there was a bomb threat, the police did not know about it. So to this day, I don’t know if the bomb threat was an excuse or not; but I was thrown out.

Does this explain your absence in the EU referendum’s Iva video?

Exactly. Can you imagine if I were in that as well?

What are your plans for the party if you are elected?

At the moment I’m going through a really interesting and beautiful process meeting the 900 councillors. There are several things I would do but I would definitely start by working on the people who voted for us. There are people who, no matter what, are still with us. And we have to understand why they are still there. There are also our paid members ... We need to roll up our sleeves, dig in the soil and find our roots. We also have to be present in our każini [party clubs]. And let’s call them każini, not offices. An office implies a room with a desk. The każin is a meeting place.

Are these still relevant today?

They have become more relevant than ever before.

Why?

I was at an MŻPN [the party’s youth movement] seminar lately and it made me see the relevance of our każini. They give you a sense of belonging. It’s a club where you can meet people who share their ideas ... I keep thinking that a lot of people have now gone into social media and are not looking for this. A lot of those who are addicted to social media are actually crying out to have somewhere to meet people.

What makes you better than Beppe Fenech Adami for this role?

I don’t think it is a matter of better or worse, but a matter of choice.

What do you offer that is different from what he does?

I think I definitely offer this human side which people like in me. Yes, I’m the one of Sellili, the one of Eurovision and they are more comfortable with me because of that ...

Opposition leader Simon Busuttil is seen by many to have the ‘soft’ skills you are talking about. Wouldn’t it be good to complement him with someone with Dr Fenech Adami’s stature?

Well, if you’re looking at it from that point of view ... I can always tell you, there isn’t a woman on the team. So why not have a woman? But the point is not that I am a woman but that I am valid for what I am.

In an interview with this newspaper, Dr Fenech Adami said his advantage over you was that he knows this party well. How do you respond?

I know the party well. I might know the people even better.

Who do you think Simon Busuttil wants as deputy leader for party affairs?

He wants a good deputy leader. It is not about Claudette or Beppe. He just wants to build a team because there’s a lot of work to do.

Do you believe you’re the underdog or do you stand a good chance?

If you want to call me the underdog, I don’t mind, but at the end of the day, that makes me more of a fighter. I’m not taking anybody for granted.

You’ve been appointed spokeswoman for social dialogue and civil rights within the new shadow Cabinet. Why do you think you’ve been given this role?

I’m very happy with this role. It is a very important area and I feel that in the past it could have been the party’s weakness, so this puts a lot of responsibility on my shoulders. We’ve often been accused of not listening to people and losing entire groups of people. In the past we fought for students, doctors and teachers. Are these groups still with us? And what about civil liberties?

I really hate labelling people, I find it very awkward, so when we use the famous LGBT [lesbian, gay, bisexual and transgender] label, it’s like we’re putting everyone under an umbrella. For me, these are friends and human beings. Some I have known as long as I’ve lived, and I’m very comfortable with anyone of any background. I think Dr Busuttil’s choice stems from the fact that he knows I’m comfortable with them and they’re comfortable with me.

In another interview you said anyone who takes part in Eurovision automatically becomes a gay idol. There was a strong reaction to that comment on the social media, perhaps that’s why you’re speaking against labels now. Do you think you were patronising to gays with that statement?

No, I think anybody who has been to the Eurovision knows what I was talking about.

Don’t you need to do more than be in the Eurovision to be a gay idol?

Of course, I meant it to be tongue in cheek and some of my gay friends who follow the Euro-vision closely know exactly what I’m talking about. But apart from that, seriously, I think gay issues need to be addressed ...

Do you have any red lines, though? Do you think we are going too far in granting rights or are we holding back too much?

I think we have obligations which we must never put aside. There are people in our country who are vulnerable and we must protect them.

But what would you do as PN spokeswoman for civil rights if a Private Member’s Bill on gay marriage were to be tabled?

One of the things we are doing in the PN at the moment, which is very healthy, is meeting regularly and discussing these issues. I am not going to tell you at what point we are ...

So the PN is discussing whether to be in favour of gay marriage or civil unions?

We are discussing civil liberties, yes. And we are discussing other issues on the agenda.

What’s your personal opinion, though? What is your contribution to these discussions?

The most important things to me are listening, contributing and bringing to the table what other people are saying. The minute something is being published, I have to read it and meet those people.

So what do you think of the Today Public Policy Institute’s report on civil rights for same-sex couples?

I haven’t gone through it all yet but I want to meet them. We have to be very careful with sweeping statements on these issues.

They said gay marriage is “one step too far for Malta”.

Maybe they are right, but I want to see why they’re saying this and where it is coming from...

Do you exclude fronting a Bill on an issue like gay marriage?

I don’t exclude fronting a Bill on anything, but I’m not saying I will front a Bill on gay marriages. I think we’re rushing. I don’t want to be presumptuous and say I will do this and that.

But PN councillors must be trying to gauge where you stand politically. Are you very liberal or more of a conservative person? Are you trying to be all things to everyone?

I am talking about these issues with my councillors and it is nice when you do it behind closed doors and there are no cameras, because there are no inhibitions. I set up my meetings like we’re a support group ... all of us in a circle ...

What is the sort of feedback you get?

What I bring forward is not what I feel or what I think we should be doing, but I ask them things like: do you think we should be discussing these issues? Do you want us to go through what we went through with divorce? We put it aside and we thought it was not going to happen because it was not on our agenda ...

At the end of the day, we have to be realistic. I can’t see us moving forward without engaging regularly in discussions and without provoking one another. This is what I am enjoying about our parliamentary group meetings.

Over the last years there was this impression that people within the PN were afraid to even engage in these discussions. There were a lot of taboo subjects. Are you meeting that sort of resistance?

No, I’m not meeting resistance. Somebody recently told me it would be very difficult for me to discuss these issues. I told him I didn’t think so but my reply should have been: “It isn’t. We’re already discussing these issues.”

We have different opinions and we have a wide spectrum that reflects our society. Our society has parents who work for the Church but their son is gay or their daughter is cohabiting and it is not a big issue for them. They’re still doing their work for the Church. And they still believe in their values.

You don’t put your values aside because your son or daughter is not living up to your ideals. I have a daughter and might have my own dreams for her. But at the end of the day, if she is happy, that’s when I am happy.

So you would agree with Dr Fenech Adami that the time for absolute truths is over.

Absolutely.

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