Gay marriage questions
December 9, 2012, Washington, USA. Jessica Lee and Ashley Cavner said “I do”, completing their wedding vows – but do these words also ring true when it comes from a gay couple? They are the state’s first lesbian couple as Washington joined Connecticut, Iowa, Maine, Maryland, Massachusetts, New Hampshire, New York and Vermont in legalising same-sex marriage in the US.
For every US state legalising such marriages, there are others that prohibit it. Indeed on the same day, Tory MP David Davies labelled the UK Government’s gay marriage plans as “barking mad”.
Gay marriage is legal in eight European countries.
Actress, 13-time Emmy award winner and Hillary Clinton’s Special Envoy on global AIDS awareness, Ellen DeGeneres, famously said, “I was raised around heterosexuals, as all heterosexuals are, that’s where us gay people come from... you heterosexuals.”
In light of such statements, why is gay marriage illegal in Malta? Another, controversial issue – divorce – was only introduced last year. In March 2012, then Nationalist MP Jeffery Pullicino Orlando proposed the legalisation of gay marriage, which set alarm bells ringing among conservatives.
Perhaps the wording of the proposal was what struck at Malta’s religious core. Rather than calling it a civil partnership or cohabitation, Pullicino Orlando called it “marriage”.
In 2010, Elton John and his civil partner David Furnish had a son, Zachary, through a surrogate mother. The singer has admitted that, even though he has “never seen such a contented child”, his son will struggle with bullying because he doesn’t “have a mummy”.
Indeed, when asked about gay marriage many people say they are not against the partnership per se, but mostly the after-effects such as adoption and other rights.
What is interesting is that, without the couple being officially recognised as such, it is perfectly legal for one-half of a gay couple to adopt a child, and then raise it together. Would this automatically become illegal if the couple were recognised?
The Malta Gay Rights Movement has been critical of several legal changes effected during 2012. This includes the Cohabitation Bill that does not recognise cohabiting partners on the same level as families borne out of marriage. The movement claims this discriminates against gay couples in the absence of gay marriage.
All in all, one has to wonder why questions such as gay marriage seem to be avoided by both parties. Could it be the influence of forces such as the Church, both on party members themselves or their voters? It would be difficult to expect MPs to ignore those who vote them into power, or indeed the teaching of the Church they subscribe to. However, isn’t it about time that matters of faith and matters of society found their rightful place? If two atheist gay persons want to marry, why should the vote of an MP with Catholic views prevent that?
One has to consider what such persons would do, should gay marriage not be legalised. Just because partnership is not recognised, it certainly does not mean such persons will not cohabit. These persons will be living together but without any of the benefits enjoyed by married couples.
Another point to consider is that it is legal for an individual to adopt, but what if that individual is in a gay partnership and then passes away? The other partner – who would in effect have co-raised the child – would have absolutely no right over the child whatsoever. How would this be handled? Could one of the partners effectively leave the child in their will? What would happen if the partner died intestate? Several things still need to be discussed, such as the ethical ground behind leaving a human being in a will.
With an election looming, one wonders whether any time for discussion of this issue will be allotted in the campaigns.
One hopes that this and other important issues will make it onto the agenda of whoever is elected later this year.
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Vivienne Portelli
Feb 13th, 16:55
We have completely lost the plot in my opinion, Marriage is a Holy Sacrament, created by our Maker, intended ONLY to be between a man and a woman, and Nature itself perfects this unity. End of. Anything else, or trying to convince ourselves of anything else is only fooling ourselves.!We have to think of Eternity and the day we meet God at our Final Judgement.
Alfred Falzon
Jan 25th, 11:12
"Gay marriage"?
A topsy-turvy world devoid of all logic and an affront to humankind!
Alfred A Falzon
Joe Zammit
Jan 24th, 19:24
“If two atheist gay persons want to marry, why should the vote of an MP with Catholic views prevent that?”
If two want to marry, they can get married. If two want to be gay, let them enjoy their gayness in a false union. They cannot get married. Nature itself will be mum on that false union. Gay unions are abusing nature and nature, being what it is, derides their acts.
Joe Zammit
Jan 24th, 16:01
“I was raised around heterosexuals, as all heterosexuals are, that’s where us gay people come from... you heterosexuals.”
Who can deny that only a heterosexual union can have offspring? No need for homosexuals to say so.
No one is born homosexual. Homosexuals become so through succumbing to acts of homosexuality. If they resist their passions, they will never become homosexuals.
Andrew Sammut
Jan 25th, 01:44
I could not disagree with you more. Its evident that you have strong religious believes and while that is fine and everyone can respect that, it is important not to impose those same believes on others and limit others lives because of your belief system.
Your OPINION on how/why one is a homosexual is irrelevant. The issue is you(like the church) is trying to impose themselves on the whole state.
Joe Zammit
Jan 25th, 08:18
Andrew
Where are your arguments proving what I have said is wrong? Facts are facts and no wishful thinking will ever change what I have said.
Andrew Pisani
Jan 25th, 14:34
Joe, what facts are you talking about?
What about gays who end up committing suicide because they can't handle telling their parents. Is that just an act? Do not show your ignorance in the subject and speak about things you have experience in. If it is a false union, it's not your problem. Let them live in their false union and you make sure you attend your Sunday mass and keep your nose out.
Gerry Cowie
Jan 24th, 13:12
Ramon, if people want civil partnerships rather than marriage then let them go for them! Marriage is a totally different concept, though as an ex-christian humanist I do not expect you to agree!
You mention human rights below very loudly! So what about the right to be born, to be treated as human from conception (not a bundle of cells) & not to be fair game for abortionists whilst in the womb?
Roger Tirazona
Jan 24th, 09:55
" The singer has admitted that, even though he has “never seen such a contented child”, his son will struggle with bullying because he doesn’t “have a mummy”. "
This has been an argument against gay adoption by many, which actually means that these people are ready to live in a society of fear where we let the bully set the rules.
Dylan C.
Feb 9th, 00:16
Exactly, mentality is a huge issue in this country - "Because people will talk about me... Bullying is common, and THIS must be addressed.
Ramon Casha
Jan 24th, 09:38
Basic civil and human rights in Malta have always been at the tail end of western, developed nations. In fact, the only way for Malta to look good is to compare it to places like Iran or Pakistan. It's quite telling that even the party that has been promoting itself as "progressive" has avoided promising equal rights to gay couples. Only AD so far fully supports equal rights.
Joe Zammit
Jan 23rd, 21:24
“In light of such statements, why is gay marriage illegal in Malta?”
The writer wanted to say: “In the darkness of such statements, why is gay marriage illegal in Malta?”
She is asking a rhetorical question. The answer can be given even by a 10-year-old. It is illegal because a homosexual marriage can never exist.
Jessica Lee and Ashley Cavner are not married.
Joe Zammit
Jan 23rd, 21:23
“In 2010, Elton John and his civil partner David Furnish had a son, Zachary, through a surrogate mother.”
The writer is telling one and all: 'Look, let me prove you that homosexual union is no marriage at all. Elton and David NEEDED a woman to have Zachary. You see, a homosexual marriage is a contradiction in terms.'
Marriage is what it is and no article is going to change it.
Joe Zammit
Jan 23rd, 21:19
“… because he doesn’t “have a mummy”. The big lie!
He doesn’t have a mummy and in the same breath the writer is saying that Elton and David NEEDED a woman, needed “a mummy”
Joe Zammit
Jan 23rd, 19:35
“Another point to consider is that it is legal for an individual to adopt, but what if that individual is in a gay partnership and then passes away?”
The writer enjoys herself in asking rhetorical questions. What happens? That child will be given again in adoption.
We must remember that adoption is not given to all those who request it! Would-be adopters will be first examined well!
Monica Muscat
Jan 23rd, 18:35
I have nothing against Gay persons both male and female. As one character in a film I saw years ago, commented that "...God made me that way.." I also do not object to them being allowed to"marry civily" and have the rights of other married couples! But I certainly draw a dark, double line, and underscore against these couples being allowed to adopt, raise, and practice IVF!
More next chapter!
Joe Zammit
Jan 23rd, 19:40
Monica
God has not created homosexuals or heterosexuals. He has created human beings, perfect in every respect. After Original Sin, concupiscence seeped in humanity. So now all of us have some evil tendency.
All of us must deny ourselves and our passions to please God who has created us for himself.
One become homosexual when one starts indulging in homosexual acts.
Joe Zammit
Jan 23rd, 16:36
God has created human beings and God has created the institution of marriage.
Marriage is a union between one man and one woman for life.
Two men or two women can never make a marriage.
In homosexual unions there can never be love but lust.
Homosexual unions mock nature. They are unnatural and debase homosexual themselves.
Charles Bayliss
Jan 23rd, 17:42
Joe Zammit . We do not lust for each other but we love each other. As if some straights marriages last more than 8 years, some even ending after a few weeks. And if you have no "sin" throw the first stone.
L Zerafa
Jan 23rd, 18:02
Unfortunately for you, Joe Zammit, you are not running the country and you are not in control of the English or Maltese language. If by law, it says that it is a marriage, then it is a marriage.
Joe Zammit
Jan 23rd, 20:01
L. Zerafa
If by law it says a marriage, the law will prove again that it is an ASS!
A homosexual union fails completely the marriage test. No law can change that.
Joe Zammit
Jan 23rd, 21:17
L. Zerafa
If by law it says a marriage, the law will prove again that it is an ASS!
A homosexual union fails completely the marriage test. No law can change that.
Joe Zammit
Jan 25th, 11:36
Charles
One becomes homosexual when one starts indulging in homosexual acts.
If one, by God's grace and by denying oneself, does not succumb to the temptation of homosexuality, one will never become a homosexual.
Besides, one can come out of that homosexual life as others have done. So it all depends on one’s will.
Victor Rodenas
Jan 23rd, 12:49
I am certain of one thing,..that God accepts us as we are,....God accepted Abraham having sex with his maid,...so He loves us as we are ,with our culture.I do not think that God changes His mind.
Joe Zammit
Jan 23rd, 21:33
Victor
God loves us as we are, but he does not want us to live in sin. God loved all those who are in hell when they were still on earth, but notwithstanding his love for them, they didn't love him. They were stubborn in sin and died in sin.
Besides, God punished David for having sex with Bathsheba. Abraham could have sex with his maid.
Joe Sultana
Jan 23rd, 12:49
There is no such thing as a gay marriage. It may be a homosexual union but never a marriage. t is a contradiction in terms and of nature.
Joe Zammit
Jan 23rd, 12:48
“I do”, completing their wedding vows”
Jessica Lee and Ashley Cavner celebrated a mock pseudo-marriage.
Let Jessica and Ashley get children from their mock pseudo-marriage!
Let Jessica and Ashley complement each other from their mock pseudo-marriage!
Presenting homosexual unions as marriages is just wishful thinking!
Joe Zammit
Jan 23rd, 11:43
“Gay marriage is legal in eight European countries.”
Also if it were legal in all countries, gay union can never be a marriage.
If all the countries of the world call a cat, dog, a cat will it remain!
So it is with marriage.
In a homosexual union there are missing all the characteristics that make a marriage.
Evarist Saliba
Jan 23rd, 11:28
The concept that marriage is a union between a man and a woman, reflecting the biological reality of the purpose of sex in the human race, is not an exclusive Catholic idea. It is held by people of other religions, and it is as old as history itself.
Same-sex marriage perverts this fundamental reality to satisfy demands from a minority group that can be, and has been, met in other ways.
Joe Zammit
Jan 23rd, 11:20
The writer of this article is confused about wills, especially if one dies intestate.
I tell her: if you are so green about wills, please contact a notary public and they will give you all the necessary information about the provisions of our civil law about inheritance.
Surely, they will not mention to you 'gay marriage' because a gay marriage can never exist.
Ronald Cauchi
Jan 23rd, 15:26
"can" is a long word Mr Zammit. According to you Divorce could not become law in Malta, and it did. And so will gay marriages. It would be better if we all sat back and thought of how we can make it better for such unions to be a success or we'll end up with as many homosexual divorces as we're going to get hetereosexual ones
Joe Zammit
Jan 23rd, 16:32
Ronald
'Gay marriages' do not exist and cannot exist. Marriage has characteristics which gay unions do not have. So, it’s useless calling gay unions ‘marriages’.
Adrian Zahra
Jan 23rd, 10:57
Civil rights legislation (accessible to all) is separate from religious faith (as practised by the individual) in all countries where there is separation of church and state. Marriage is a civil arrangement, blessed by God and elevated to the status of a sacrament by the Church since mediaeval times to recognise its institutional contribution to society. Let's not confuse people and matters please
Joe Zammit
Jan 23rd, 11:49
Adrian
Marriage has been elevated to the dignity of a sacrament by Christ himself. So, over 2000 years ago!
Christ has set up SEVEN sacraments, one of which is Matrimony.
Besides, God has created the institution of marriage and so ONLY God can say what makes a marriage.
Carmel Borg
Jan 23rd, 12:50
How does your argument fit in the above article. Only 8 European countries have gay marriage. Does the rest of the European countries not differ civil rights from religion? I think such issues are more complicated than just civil rights. What about how these liberal the society itself? Does not that have to be debated?
Joe Zammit
Jan 23rd, 07:47
A Catholic is Catholic always and everywhere.
A Catholic is Catholic in both their private and public life.
Our Catholic Faith is not a dress which is changed from time to time but a character that gives us our way of life.
Michael Grech
Jan 23rd, 09:23
Will you vote come the next election, given that all parties agree?
Mr Andrew Camilleri
Jan 23rd, 10:30
Yes true - but not everyone is a catholic, Malta is not run by the catholic church (at least officially), catholics should not impose their religous beliefs on non-believers. We are in the EU now you know.
Joe Zammit
Jan 23rd, 10:40
Michael
Both political parties consider them as homosexual unions only and not as marriages.
The writer of this article has slipped on dry ground, offering no argument at all.
Joe Zammit
Jan 23rd, 11:02
Michael
The writer herself has given you the answer: "All in all, one has to wonder why questions such as gay marriage seem to be avoided by both parties".
Michael Grech
Jan 23rd, 16:33
@ Joe Zammit Civil partnerships involving same sex couples were opposed by the Italian Catholic church when Prodi tried to promulgate such law. Do you approve of them? Will you vote come the next election given that all parties agree on such policy?
Joe Zammit
Jan 23rd, 21:30
Michael
I have already answered you and I have already pointed out about the immorality of homosexuals unions.
About my voting is out of point!
Michael Grech
Jan 24th, 14:09
No Joe, your voting is not out of point. One should put one's vote where his mouth is.
Joe Zammit
Jan 24th, 15:59
Michael
The topic is not on voting but on whether a homosexual union is marriage or not. It is definitely not a marriage.
Voting or not voting is out of point.
Michael Grech
Jan 25th, 07:08
Joe don't try to play the dumb-game. I never mentioned voting on gay marriage - its not something we can vote for nor is it on the major parties' cards. Still the type of union PN and PL are proposing was condemned (and sabotaged) by the Italian Church when Prodi suggested it, claiming that it is immoral and not very dissimilar to gay/lesbian marriage. So it is an issue of whether you will vote
Gerry Cowie
Jan 22nd, 22:12
What is the problem with civil partnerships? They are designed to protect legal rights. Do gay persons actually want marriage?
Michael Grech
Jan 23rd, 09:29
Civil partnerships involving same sex couples were opposed by the Italian Catholic church when Prodi tried to promulgate such law. Do you approve of them? Will you vote come the next election given that all parties agree on such policy?
Gerry Cowie
Jan 24th, 00:07
Michael, I think you misunderstood me. The question is about whether marriage is appropriate. In the UK for instance there are such partnerships. They do not equate to marriage which is the main bone of contention here, but give legal rights to both parties. Which would you prefer? Marriage or civil partnerships?
Ramon Casha
Jan 24th, 09:44
Why do opposite-sex couples not settle for civil partnerships? Why do they want marriage? The exact same reasons apply for same-sex couples.
Michael Grech
Jan 24th, 14:14
No Gerry. Marriage is not the only bone of contention. The Italian church in Prodi's case, claimed that the Civil Unions to he was proposing to protect legal rights were tantamount to marriage under a different name, they claimed that these constituted an attack on the traditional family and managed to hijack them. Or are you another PN Catholic-apologist who wants to have his cake and eat it?
Henry S Pace
Jan 22nd, 21:42
Marriage was established by God. "No ideology can erase from the human spirit the certainty that marriage exists solely between a man and a woman, who by mutual personal gift, proper and exclusive
to themselves, tend toward the communion of their persons. In this way, they mutually perfect each other, in
order to cooperate with God in the procreation and upbringing of new human lives."
Charles Bayliss
Jan 23rd, 08:25
Mr pace you have the facts from. MARRIAGE WAS NOT ESTABLISHED BY GOD. It is an invention of the human being. Initially God made Man and than gave him a companion in the form of a female. I do not know why such intelligent beings mix up Canon Marriage (for your convenience church marriage) withn Civil Marriage. No sensible gay person wants to get married in church. We are civilians.
Gabriel Gauci
Jan 22nd, 21:38
And what happens if two gay persons want to marry and the vote of an atheist MP prevents that? Is it true that only Catholics are opposed to gay marriage?
Open your eyes to what is happening in France for example! Catholics are part of a far greater movement against gay marriage...
Henry S Pace
Jan 22nd, 21:31
If we claim to be Catholic, then Catholics, including public officials who describe themselves as Catholic, need to act accordingly.. Otherwise all of us – from Members of Parliament, to Catholic lay people in the pews – fail not only as believers and disciples, but also as citizens.
+Charles J. Chaput, O.F.M. Cap. Archbishop of Denver
+James D. Conley Auxiliary Bishop of Denver
Mr Andrew Camilleri
Jan 23rd, 10:33
Looks like you won't be voting at the next election as all three parties support a stand on gay rights that goe against Catholic teachings. Will only non-catholics be voting in the next election? That would be strange!
Henry S Pace
Jan 22nd, 21:29
(Blessed) John Paul II - 9th May 2001
Malta, Malta! You have received so much through the ministry of Saint Paul
MALTA - 18trh April 2010
Benedict XVI-.
Għożżu l-fidi u l-valuri li taghkom l-Appostlu Missierkom San Pawl. Continue to explore the richness and depth of Paul’s gift to you and be sure to hand it on not only to your children, but to all those you encounter today
Henry S Pace
Jan 22nd, 20:51
If we claim to be Catholic, then Catholics, including public officials who describe themselves as Catholic, need to act accordingly.. Otherwise all of us – from Members of Parliament, to Catholic lay people in the pews – fail not only as believers and disciples, but also as citizens.
+Charles J. Chaput, O.F.M. Cap. Archbishop of Denver
+James D. Conley Auxiliary Bishop of Denver
Henry S Pace
Jan 22nd, 20:48
' If two atheist gay persons want to marry, why should the vote of an MP with Catholic views prevent that '
The Church expects and urges those who profess to be its members, to contribute to this debate according to their Christian values as proclaimed by Our Lord Jesus Christ; otherwise they would be living a contradiction. The
Joe Zammit
Jan 22nd, 20:41
Two gays want to marry? Two locks (without keys) want to lock? Two keys (without locks) want to lock?
There can never be a marriage between two persons of the same sex.
Marriage is only a union between one man and one woman for ever. If it is not for ever, it will be cohabitation, not marriage.
So, even cohabitation is no marriage, let alone a gay union!
Please choose the reason of your report below: