Print Email

Saturday, January 19, 2013, 06:39

Bishop warns against adoptions by gay couples

Auxiliary Bishop Charles Scicluna has spoken out against adoptions by gay couples.

“We all agree that the child’s best interests should be a priority… Adoption is something society offers to give a family to children who do not have one, so we must strive to give them a family that resembles the natural family made up of a mother, father and children,” he told The Times.

Labour leader Joseph Muscat and Prime Minister Lawrence Gonzi have both said adoption should be based on the child’s best interests and not the sexual orientation of the adoptive parents.

Mgr Scicluna said he agreed that the best interests of the child should be the driving factor. Therefore, the Church believed that allowing a gay couple to adopt was not in the best interest of the child.

Full story in The Times.

Print Email

« OLAF’s report on Dalli to see the light Gozo almost runs out of fuel »

Advert

566 Comments

Post comment

Please sign in or create your Account to post comments.

J Farrugia

Apr 1st, 10:32

Cant believe that some people pass on such comments. It is those who judge others who have not a place in Haven and fools are thoses who still believe and follow the propoganda by the Catholic Church...

Stop Judging people!!

I Bugeja

Mar 12th, 22:29

Who gives a hoot about the Kingdom of Heaven if we cannot live as we like on Earth?

Anna Finlason

Mar 9th, 21:18

I cannot believe how bigoted some people are, and you call yourselves Christians. It is shameful that you would dare write that murderers, homosexuals, adulterers will not enter the kingdom of heaven. Who are you to judge what happens to a person when they die? Everyone is entitled to their own beliefs, but some of the comments are immensely hurtful; and no I am not gay but have friends who are.

Tony Agius

Mar 9th, 01:19

It is tragic that so many Maltese people are still influenced by a mideaval church propaganda.

Mr C Galea

Feb 20th, 23:29

Re Mgr Scicluna , has this given the thought of following in the present pope directions??????? I highly recomend it.

Ruth Farrugia

Feb 15th, 19:08

"Homosexuals, murderers do not enter the kingdom..." seriously?! Gay couples adopting "impose on the child", how can loving and caring for a child be an imposition on them? The homophobic commentary below shows a deeply rooted ignorance and a lack of compassion, scary to think that some of you might be parents. Love has no labels. Challenge your religious beliefs, learn to think.

ROBERT HIDE

Feb 12th, 20:27

Excellent to see some sensible people making some very good points but the EU has dictated the opposite of what most beleive in i.e That same sex couples can marry and adopt children and to not permit this is against the human rights of these deviants.So speak up Malta and get some common sense backinto the EU. Good Luck !

alfred attard

Feb 11th, 06:17

The child needs the love of the mother and father.I do not dare to interfer with the lives of gays and lesbians. Everybody is free to live as he chooses. True marriage is done by a male and female, therefore peopleof the same sex should NEVER be allowed to MARRY, let alone adopt children, PERIOD. We must think of the child. No one must impose on the child. What will the child say when he grows up.

E Richie

Jan 23rd, 13:41

" ...homosexuals, murderers, theives, adulterers,.... do not enter the Kingdom of God..." (Bible Quote) . Are the politicians willing to take this on their conscience, and encourage ppl to go to hell for eternity ,, just for votes . How more materialistic and egoistic can one get

Alfred Falzon

Jan 21st, 10:39

@ Annemarie Mayo

You seem to deny all that is logical by opposing anything that proves that "same-sex unions" are harmful to society, and by even attempting unsuccessfully to summarily dismiss factual evidence that natural law is universal & immutable being rooted in human nature!
Mine is a principled stand with no hidden agenda.
Yours is a personal one which u want to impose on society!

aaf

Alfred Falzon

Jan 21st, 10:15

4. American gay activist, Paul Varnell wrote recently in d "Chicago Times":
"D gay Movement, whether we acknowledge it or not, is not a civil rights movement, not even a sexual liberation movement, but a moral revolution aimed at changing people's view of homosexuality".
"Civil rights" now seem to have been dropped from Gay agenda!
Then why all this hullabaloo by d local gay movement & AD?

aaf

Alfred Falzon

Jan 20th, 18:20

3.Just look at d many social benefits d State bestows such as "children's allowances", child-care centres, free education,deduction in income tax 2 mothers who return 2 work, etc thanks 2 which a true marriage provides d normal conditions 4 a stable, affectionate & moral atmosphere that is beneficial 2 d upbringing of children.
Will it b d same for sterile same-sex couples who claim adoption?
aaf

Annemarie Mayo

Jan 20th, 23:34

So what your are saying is same-sex couples should be discriminated against because society discriminates against them benefit-wise?

I Bugeja

Mar 12th, 22:32

Most probably Alfred you would be happy that same sex couples work and pay taxes and pay higher mortgages on houses etc but you would not be happy giving them (us) state aid?

Is that what you are saying?

Most probably same sex couples would look more forward in raising a child officially together rather than the loads of single parents for convenience

Alfred Falzon

Jan 20th, 17:29

2. Who can deny d evident difficulties faced by unfortunate orphaned kids raised by a single parent, relative or foster parent?
Imagine then a worse scenario if a child is adopted by gay partners.
D kid will b always deprived of a natural father/mother, being necessarily raised by 1 party with no blood relationship with him/her.
This will become d norm 4 ALL children of a same-sex marriage!

aaf

K Scicluna

Jan 20th, 19:39

''D kid will b always deprived of a natural father/mother, being necessarily raised by 1 party with no blood relationship with him/her.''

Isn't this this the case with all adopted children?why would the situation be worse if the adoptive parents are homosexual?

Annemarie Mayo

Jan 20th, 23:39

Another illogical argument. You seem to imply that children will be purposely orphaned to meet the demand of same sex fosters.Yes, being raised (properly) by your natural parents is the ideal scenario, but unfortunately the real world offers a different scenario.It takes little to be a natural parent - it takes much more to be a real father. Why deprive a child of living in an environment of love?

Ruth Farrugia

Feb 15th, 19:26

So basically you are ok with any gay couples who actually have their own chidlren, yes it happens (shock horror!), using a surrogate mother in the case of men or a sperm doner in the case of women. In this case there is a blood relationship which would work well for you right?! Intelligence is not your strength is it? I hope you have been blessed with other qualities...

Annemarie Mayo

Jan 20th, 14:56

Regnerus study: He put in the same category the children of stable same-sex couples and children whose parents’ marriage dissolved after a gay affair. Two hundred scholars signed a letter attacking his paper and the paper that published it. The study was financed by conservative institution. Regnerus would not be interviewed or discuss his research material. Please find better material to cite.

Alfred Falzon

Jan 20th, 14:16

1. Once same-sex "marriage" is legalised, d State becomes its official & active promoter.
D State will then have 2 order public schools to teach its acceptibility to children & discipline State employees, incl. teachers, who are reluctant 2 approve of it!
D State will furthermore expect Christians & all people of good will 2 betray their conscience by undermining d Natural Order & morality!

aaf

Karl Consiglio

Jan 20th, 11:30

Church likes to speak in favour of going along with the laws of nature but vow of chastity for example goes against nature

Raymond Sammut

Jan 20th, 13:17

@Consiglio

The "laws of Nature" are not as straightforward.

The gene mutation that caused homosexuality within the tribe was essential in two ways: increase in manpower with less likelihood of an increase in food consumption. Homosexual members of the tribe would be assigned to look after the offspring of others. This resulted in a net increase in food gathering -allowing the tribe to survive.

Annemarie Mayo

Jan 20th, 14:57

Antibiotics are against the laws of nature.

Karl Consiglio

Jan 20th, 15:13

Karl Consiglio

Jan 20th, 18:09

Cannabis is perfectly natural, but its illegal.

Francis Saliba M.D.

Jan 24th, 20:27

@Annemarie Mayo

Antibiotics assist and boost the natural process of fighting bacterial infection. They are not against the laws of nature. Where did you get that idea? Not from the Mayo Clinic I'm sure. Any relation?

Norman E Grech

Jan 20th, 10:39

I criticised the church heavily in the recent past especially on the divorce issue but I have to agree in this case!''Orphans' are an extreme example and if adopted, their best interest would be with a man/woman couple.

The only case where it is in the child's interest to be adopted by a guy couple is when the child is the biological child of one gay member and can't be kept by the other.

Colin Stanley

Jan 20th, 10:14

Well if it's that bad that a lot of children are looked after by a bunch of nuns as some of you are saying. there is a solution the nuns stop taking in children all to gether, then we will see what happens. and by the way how many of them are Maltese?

G Tonna

Jan 20th, 08:34

Well said. The church has done and still does a lot for orphans.

Francis Saliba M.D.

Jan 20th, 06:35

@KurtWaschnig

Your ill-informed pontificating and intrusive contributions from abroad are so consistently pro-Malta Labour Party, anti-Nationalist Party, anti-Catholic and against anything Maltese that they should be ignored by all, as I will do, since my replies to you are either rejected or published only in a grossly mutilated form.

Alfred Falzon

Jan 20th, 14:31

All is pointing to a massive intrusion from abroad in a desperate attempt to influence gullible Maltese who are an easy prey to what foreigners say!

Just like AD when it fell for the highly irresponsible EU Greens who voted against Maltese EU Commissioner Dr Tonio Borg in spite of being censured by their own stalwart Daniel Cohn Bendit, nicknamed "Dany le Rouge" (Dany d Red) of 1968 fame!

aaf

Annemarie Mayo

Jan 20th, 23:43

@ aaf

A shame you do not believe that the Maltese can think for themselves.

Alfred Falzon

Jan 21st, 10:50

@ Annemarie Mayo

A shame on you for thinking that ALL Maltese are gullible!
I said "gullible Maltese" that is a section of the Maltese, an insignificant minority, influenced by some "gay" leaning foreigners like the EU Greens who think they can ride roughshod over everybody by their ostentious pretentions!

aaf

Elvin Muscat

Jan 20th, 02:10

Let us take the religious factor out of this equation for sake of argument.
How could a child psychologically accept and enter a normal life (as a heterosexual) when he is born and bred into a same sex couple.
There are the exceptions to any rule, and same goes for heterosexual couples.

Annemarie Mayo

Jan 20th, 14:58

Do heterosexuals only breed heterosexuals?

Francis Saliba M.D.

Jan 25th, 06:37

@Annemarie Mayo.

What a silly question! Heterosexuals are the only ones who actually conceive and contribute anything to the preservation of the human species. Without them there wouldn't be any homosexuals or anyone else to boost their aberration.

Raymond Sammut

Jan 20th, 00:52

@ Vella-Zarb

This bishop has a Constitutional right to propagate the teachings of his church (a foreign church) to all Maltese in Malta -not just to its "adherents".

This Constitutional right is thanks to the late Mr Mintoff and to Dr Fenech-Adami under the watchful eyes of the late Dun Mikiel.

Maltese citizens are surely entitled to reconsider this Constitutional right through a referendum.

David Caruana

Jan 19th, 21:02

'...we must strive to give them a family that resembles the natural family made up of a mother, father and children'

And what exactly are the orphans having in the meantime? No, really what are YOU offering to these children?

Steven Brockwell

Jan 20th, 14:09

what i can not understand is, if there are so many orphans in malta why where couples adopting from russia and other eastern block country's ?????????????????

Alfred Falzon

Jan 20th, 22:06

Quote me wrong, but from what I was given to understand, adoption of Maltese kids is an unsurmountable barrier due to various reasons, one being that d Island is too small & everybody knows everybody!

As regards Russia, d Russian govt. seems to have now banned all adoptions by foreign partners after d row with the USA over serious incidents of negligence that could have been easily avoided.

aaf

Jonathan Bianco

Jan 19th, 20:53

It saddens me to read most of the comments posted here. It is aparant bthat most do not know the situation as regards to the children in church homes and under nuns care. Most of the children there are not available for adoption. Few babies in Malta are available for adoption and so its not a case of better than being brought up by the nuns.

Francis Saliba M.D.

Jan 19th, 20:22

Part 3
The attempt in this blog to rubbish the research of Professor Mark Regnerus is in full accord with the USA LGBT vicious but failed attempt to have him dismissed from his post in the prestigious University of Texas (concluded).

Raymond Sammut

Jan 20th, 01:22

@ Francis Saliba M.D.

The complaint is from a novelist and freelance writer in an open letter to UT:

"I have filed, through the “EthicsPoint” online system, a complaint against University of Texas, Austin’s Dr. Mark D. Regnerus for Scientific Misconduct in violation of UTA’s Academic Dishonesty Policy, which forbids use of misinformation to hurt others." (Scott Rose, 24/6/12, online)

Francis Saliba M.D.

Jan 23rd, 08:43

@Raymond Sammut

The rejection of the criticism of Professor Regnerus by a "novelist and freelance writer"(!) and all other LGBT supporters comes from the University of Texas itself.

Francis Saliba M.D.

Jan 19th, 20:21

Part 2
Professor Regnerus was vilified in an insulting campaign organized by LGBT (USA) that attempted to have the professor fired by the university, which attempt failed after an internal enquiry established that not even a formal investigation was warranted. (continued)

Francis Saliba M.D.

Jan 19th, 20:20

Part 1
Prof Mark Regnerus paper was published in the prestigious peer-reviewed science publication Social Science Research and concluded that children raised by same sex couples are less healthy, more prone to suicidal thoughts and psychological upsets, to unfaithfulness and to contracting sexually transmitted diseases (continued)

K Scicluna

Jan 19th, 19:38

Can anyone please outline the disadvantages of being raised by gay parents??

Ms. P.M Graham

Jan 19th, 20:43

I could give you a list of advantages :)

Alfred Falzon

Jan 19th, 21:54

@ P.M.Graham

Then, what are you waiting for?
So far, we have had insults & threats hurled at people who still firmly believe that real MARRIAGE is d cornerstone of society, not just a whim in d eyes of those who have lost all reasoning!
This so-called list of advantages could after all replace old-fashioned values & make mankind start afresh by reverting back to d early days of d primates!

aaf

Ms. P.M Graham

Jan 19th, 22:28

The advantage is that I chose to have my children, it wasn't expected or a duty. My children are kind to everyone, they don't judge and they don't think themselves better than anyone else. My children listen and read and then make their own conclusions and decisions with only themselves to answer to. My children see people as individuals and embrace the diversity of life. My children are my life

K Scicluna

Jan 20th, 00:34

@ Ms. P.M Graham.I don't think that there are any advantages in particular,the child would be brought up in a normal environment IF of course the parents are suitable.What I am interested however,is the disadvantages some of the previous comments have implied.Thank you nevertheless ;)

K Scicluna

Jan 20th, 00:45

@Mr.A.Falzon
I heartily agree with you that marriage is a fundamental part of society,no doubt that it must be protected and cherished.The problem arises Mr.Falzon when the 'protected' part mean different things to different people.I assume that for you,the family needs protection from same-sex marriages.Why would such introduction pose a threat to the traditional woman-man marriage?

Alfred Falzon

Jan 20th, 17:57

@ K Scicluna

A pertinent question.

You may wish to scroll further up & read my arguments.

This is NOT a war waged against homosexuals & lesbians, but humankind could be doomed if this trend towards sterile same-sex unions persists, with irreparable damage from d physiological & psychological points of view 2 our present & future OFFSPRING.

A true marriage is SACROSANCT. Let us protect it!

aaf

Francis Saliba M.D.

Jan 24th, 13:08

@MsPM Graham
Your contribution (19 Jan 22:28) is your self-praise of your qualities as some sort of superior mother and a mother's biased smug self-satisfaction with the excellence of her own children. It does not prove anything about the children of others although there is a hint that in your own estimation, yours children are better than anybody else's. I don't buy that.

Joseph E Briffa

Jan 19th, 19:05

Is anybody by any chance aware of a child adopted and brought up by a gay couple? And, if yes, has he/she followed the child's upbringing and can he/she let us know something about the grown child's sex orientation?

K Scicluna

Jan 19th, 19:46

I don't know about children adopted in malta and by maltese parents Mr.Briffa,but I thought this would answer your question:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yMLZO-sObzQ
The person in question,zach wahls,is heterosexual

Colin Stanley

Jan 19th, 18:59

@ Matthew Grima.I don't think I can do that because it hurts my arms when I try to fly. so i can't fly.

Paul Azzopardi

Jan 19th, 18:51

@ Wally Vella Zarb

Sewwa ghid tghid, hadd m'ghandu dritt jindahal kif jghix haddiehor. Imma ghandek tridd tbella sitwazjoni bhal dik lit-tarbija? Forsi ma tridtx tghix dik il-hajja. Mela taddotta tifel qiesek xtrajt puppy mill pet shop. U jekk tithassru daqs it-tfal iltiema (haga tajba) ghax ma taqbdux gidkom u tatuh lil orfanatrofji jew il-hadd tiehdu tifel id-dar gurnata maghkhom.

Wally Vella-Zarb

Jan 19th, 19:44

Le siehbi! Li tiehu orfni ghandek ghal gurnata biex wara tiehdu lura minn fejn gibtu hi krudelta' kbira. Tkun qieghed ixxenqu ghal hajja ma' familja li hu m'ghandux. Flok maghluq f'istitut immexxi minn hafna nies twajba - ta' sess wiehed - ahjar ikun imrobbi b'ghozza go dar ma' tnejn minn nies li jinhabbu. Jekk ragel u mara tajjeb hafna; jekk ta' l-istess sess tajjeb ukoll. Ambjent ta' dar ahjar.

Annemarie Mayo

Jan 20th, 15:02

Tarbija li se tkun mrobbija f'ambjent ta mhabba se tkun trid tkompli tghix dik il-hajja. Mhijiex se tikber b'mohh maghluq u intolleranti.

Grech sandro

Jan 19th, 18:20

if they want to get married...its up to them...but how could a state or a country condem children to this? its unnatural and insane for a child to be adopted by a gay couple. Is this how we are to protect our children and ensure a better future for them?

Martin Saliba

Jan 19th, 18:47

...but how could a state or a country condem children to this?

A 16 / 17 year old is considered a minor . If a minor of this age looses both his / her parents and want to be adopted by one of his best friends who happens to be gay and " married " . Would you deny his / her wish ?
Would you condem him / her to an institution ?

Grech sandro

Jan 19th, 20:11

martin...i wonder if anybody ever adopted a 16/17 year old, at that age kids will be ready to head off on their own.a couple usually adopts a new born up to 7,thats when children would need a mother and a father most...not two mothers or two fathers!! im not against gay couples as i have stated before but i am surely in favour of kids kicking off on a positive note the way nature intended it to be

Martin Saliba

Jan 19th, 21:29

Answer the question . What do you do with a 17 year old that wants to be adopted ?

Grech sandro

Jan 19th, 22:36

today kids at 16 they are already planning to lead their own life and rent their own aparments..by the age of 17 they would have already formed their own opinion in life. So i take it you mean he/she wants to give up on his biological/adoptive parents and move on with a gay couple you mean right? since by the age of 17 the upbringing process is way from over and almost time to form his/her own fam

Grech sandro

Jan 19th, 22:52

with respect since i cant immagine a 17 year old wanting to be adopted, In malta we had similar situations where a teen had trouble with his divorced parents in which case he/she took the matter to court. If this 17 year old wants to be adopted then he/she cant seem to be able to deal with life in which case he/she needs professional help not a gay couple or some little advice from mummy or daddy

Martin Saliba

Jan 20th, 14:13

Sandro , you are beating around the bush . It is a very simple question , If a 16/ 17 year old looses both his parents and wishes to be adoted by his gay, married to a person of the same sex, friend , would you deny him this wish or would you throw him into an institution that will kick him out once hi is 18 .

Martin Saliba

Jan 20th, 14:22

The word emancipation comess to mind.

Annemarie Mayo

Jan 20th, 14:49

You would be "condemning" the child to a life of attachment and love. Do not imagine yourself and your current state of mind in that situation. The child would be raised to be accepting to be of all kinds of family units. Love is love.

jonathan brincat

Feb 27th, 14:16

martin tell him to wait 1 year

Kurt Waschnig

Jan 19th, 18:12

@ M Borg

You refer always to the Regnerus´ paper and I do not understand why because there is no sense what you say. The Regnerus paper does not compare kids adopted by straight vs gay couples, The Regnerus paper is not highly regarded by leading scientists in Harvard, Yale or Oxford and no serious survey or study is based on the Regnerus paper.

Andy Farrugia

Jan 19th, 21:44

I have challenged many times, on various threads of this same paper, Herr Kurt Waschnig from Oldenburg Germany, about your total lack of credibility; you are simply a mischief maker, an arch agent provocateur. You are simply INCREDIBLE Herr Waschnig.

Pule' Carmel

Jan 19th, 17:40

Provided that man and woman are perfectly mentally and physically healthy, educated and respectful and responsible towards each other, Nothing can equal all the flavours that the togetherness of a man and a woman creates. Other relations are compromises due to some reason!!!! Even the pure togetherness between church members or others, cannot equal it ,but exist due to it!

Emanuel Farrugia

Jan 19th, 17:17

Can. 1055 §1 The marriage covenant, by which a man and a woman establish between themselves a partnership of their whole life, and which of its own very nature is ordered to the well-being of the spouses and to the procreation and upbringing of children, has, between the baptised, been raised by Christ the Lord to the dignity of a sacrament.

Emanuel Farrugia - TARXIEN

m. borg (slm)

Jan 19th, 17:27

Has nothing to do with adoption but it says what is expected of married couples.

Your point is?

Kurt Waschnig

Jan 19th, 18:18

Emanuel what are you talking about here? It has nothing to do with adoption.

Emanuel Farrugia

Jan 19th, 21:47

The precious gift of marriage

Thus the couple, while giving themselves to one another, give not just themselves but also the reality of children, who are a living reflection of their love, a permanent sign of conjugal unity and a living and inseparable synthesis of their being a father and a mother. [Familiaris Consortio - John Pail II]

Emanuel Farrugia - TARXIEN

Paul Azzopardi

Jan 19th, 17:16

Jien nixtieq insaqqsi. ......Dawn kolla li jitkellmu favur il-gays, huma gays? Mhux ghal xi haga ghax ma niddikjarawx x'ahna qabel niktbu? Jekk m'inthomx ghaliex dan l-interess kollu , taqbzu ghalihom. Jien minhiex biex niftehmu.

I Bugeja

Jan 19th, 17:51

Some time ago we voted on a referendum Mr. Azzopardi. During that particular time, marriage was open to straight couples but everyone could discuss it and everyone could vote.

People speak favourably because they think there is nothing wrong or perhaps they even agree. These comments are opinions.

Similarly clerics cannot marry but they still talk about marriage - freedom of expression!

Joe M Borg

Jan 19th, 17:52

Ghax il-gays jorganizzaw parati storbjuzu u kollha kuluri biex juru x'jafu jghamlu, filwaqt li min jghix hajja normali m'ghandux bzonn jghamel storbju. 'Empty vessels make most sound'. Id-dritt li tarbija tesperjenza l-imhabba ta' OMM u MISSIER, kif halqitha n-natura, ghalihom ma jfisser XEJN, Basta tghaddi taghhom. U haga ohra: Koppja gay tfisser zewg voti, imma tarbija tfisser ZERO voti!

Adrian P. Cassar

Jan 19th, 18:03

Jien minhix gay Paul.
Alahares naqbez biss ghal min hu bhali.
Kieku ma jimpurtanix ghas-suwed ghax jien mhux iswed. Ma jimpurtanix mill-fqar ghax jien mhux fqir. Ma jimpurtanix mill-marid ghax jien b sahti!

Ghalkemm kelli familja, jimpurtani mit-tfal go istitut u nixtieqhom ikollom lil min ihobbhom.

Wally Vella-Zarb

Jan 19th, 18:13

Nitkellem ghalija. Mizzewweg u ghandi tfal kbar. Kemm jien kif ukoll familti nemmnu li hadd m'ghandu dritt jiddeciedi jew jindahal kif haddiehor jghix hajtu. Nemmnu li kulhadd hu ndaqs, irrispettivament jekk jemminx f'xi religjon - hi liem'hi - jew le. Nahsbu b'mohhna u ma nhallux li haddiehor jahseb minflokna. Issa fhimt, Sur Azzopardi?

Angie Conti

Jan 19th, 19:49

I am not gay...but I do believe in equal rights...I too may need others to believe that and support me at some time ...we are all affected by such behaviour regardless of our sexuality!! Funny how lacking in support people who follow these preachings can be - if one hears what many of these same people preach and claim to believe, it's a clear demonstration that actions speak louder than words!

Mario Buhagiar

Jan 19th, 21:13

I'm gay and Im in favour for gay adoption and marriage. But don't want to marry or have children. I'm also in favour of divorce and IVF although im not gonna need any of them. I'm in favour of marijuana even though I don't smoke. I'm in favour of equal rights for women and transexuals, even tho im a man. I'm for equal rights between races and religions, even though I'm purely Maltese and atheist

David Caruana

Jan 19th, 21:14

Clearly, since he's asking, he wouldn't have an idea what ALTRUISM means

Annemarie Mayo

Jan 20th, 15:06

Jekk hemm nies li ghalkhemm mhux se taffetwhom gay marriage, ihossu li ghandhom ifixklu zwieg bejn tnejn minn nies li jhobbu l xulxin sincerament, se jkun hemm nies li jaqbzu ghalihom. Din mhijiex glieda ta bejn min hu gay jew min mhuwiex - din hija glieda ghall-drittijiet umani.

Wally Vella-Zarb

Jan 19th, 16:55

This bishop has every right to propagate the teachings of his church to its adherents. However, politicians are elected to cater for ALL of the citizens, irrespective of their religious affiliation or lack of it. Democracy, contrary to what many seem to think, does not equate to "tyranny by the majority'.

Parliament needs to consider minorities as well. It should not be bound by any religion.

m. borg (slm)

Jan 19th, 17:25

THis not a church teaching but a church opinion as the bishop himself said and that is different.

Angie Conti

Jan 19th, 19:50

Yes...the Church has every right to give their opinions and to tell their people what they feel is best to do....but they CANNOT impose their opinion (or their teaching for that matter) on a nation!!

Martin Saliba

Jan 19th, 16:51

Anybody can warn someone against anything but dose that make it right ? For example , warning parents not to trust the clergy because if child abuse would be stupid even though it has happened and will happen again . The bishop is well aware of this , he himself was doing a very good job of weeding out the bad apples until he was " given a promotion ".

m. borg (slm)

Jan 19th, 16:50

"....the Church believed that allowing a gay couple to adopt was not in the best interest of the child."

That what the church believes and there is no biblical proof to support it.

m. borg (slm)

Jan 19th, 16:45

Can his grace guarantee that all the priest and nuns running church institutions that care for children there are no gays priests and lesbian nuns?

Joe M Borg

Jan 19th, 17:54

m borg Can you guarantee that you are being logical?

m. borg (slm)

Jan 19th, 18:08

Joe what sort of puerile argument is that?

Well we have learned that even priest like boys and nuns abused girls so what the bell are you implying.?

Kurt Waschnig

Jan 19th, 16:40

@M Borg

The APA studies are highly regarded and used and referred by leading academic institutions in Australia, Canada, Germany, Denmark, Finland, Sweden, Switzerland, the United Kingdom, the USA.
Recent published studies by Harvard and Yale and Oxford are based on the APA studies. Leading scientists do not consider the APA studies as discredited.

Antonio Micallef

Jan 19th, 16:29

How can such an adopted children experience the love of a father or mother?

Paul Azzopardi

Jan 19th, 17:20

Tippruvax tfemhom. Mohhhom maghluq. Ix-xitan kollox qieghed jaghmel biex ikisser il-familja. Il-familja hi in-nukleu tas-socjeta. Tkisser lielha tkun kissirt kollox.

Adrian P. Cassar

Jan 19th, 18:06

The same way a child in an institution cannot experience the love of a father and a mother Antonio!
At least they can experience one of them (plus grandparents, aunts, uncles etc etc)

Joe Zammit

Jan 19th, 16:10

Raymond

The devil quotes the bible.

Christ told his Apostles and their Successors, the Bishops: "Whoever hears you, hears me; whoever despises you despises me."

In the Bible we find homosexual unions called horribe, grievous sins, abhominable to God.

The Catholic Church is the pillar and foundation of truth according to St Paul.

Nazzareno Cortis

Jan 19th, 16:52

@ Joe Zammit
Haven't you learned your lesson from the divorce referendum?
The church have no right to force laws on people-FULL STOP!!
The church has a right to teach it's religion-that's ALL!
The church have NO RIGHT to influence local polititions ---or dictates what our polititions should do--FULL STOP!
I suffered from the (taparsi) mortal sin of the 60's--result--don't beleive in local church!!

Kurt Waschnig

Jan 19th, 16:56

Dear Joe Zammit, I would like to ask you one question but please consider my question not as an offence. I only would like to understand you better because I regularly read your comments in the Times of Malta.
Do you believe in every written word in The Bible? If you like send me a mail. My e-mail is: [email protected]

Martin Saliba

Jan 19th, 16:59

Kemm kellek zball joe fuq id divorzju . Aw hadd iehor li baqa mut ukoll ta fuq dan ta aw taht .

http://www.timesofmalta.com/articles/view/20130119/local/more-than-1-500-church-marriages-registered-in-malta-last-year.453809

Adrian P. Cassar

Jan 19th, 18:09

Joe Zammit, have you really learnt nothing from the divorce referendum?
I hope you live your life as you feel is appropriate....however trying to impose on people is very unchristian

Raymond Sammut

Jan 19th, 15:59

@ M Borg

The Regnerus' paper:

"How different are the adult children of parents who have same-sex relationships? Findings from the New Family Structures Study",

Social Science Research, Volume 41, Issue 4, July 2012, Pages 752–770,

is not highly regarded by scientific researchers. For example, Lori Holyfield is calling on Elsevier to retract the paper from publication.

Fr Richard-Nazzreno Farrugia

Jan 19th, 16:44

Mr Sammut,
you're right that Regnerus' paper was not highly regarded but other some 18 scientific researchers of Baylor University defended the paper and the way Regnerus conducted his research. Cfr http://www.baylorisr.org/2012/06/a-social-scientific-response-to-the-regnerus-controversy/

Adrian P. Cassar

Jan 19th, 18:14

Father Richard. I find nothing wrong with the paper, and it definitely should not be retracted (unless there is some kind of fraud)
However, if you read the paper you will find that he compared kids from a stable relationship versus kids whose mother had a lesbian relationship. In the latter group the children naturally come from a broken family as homosexuals can't have kids.

Raymond Sammut

Jan 20th, 00:29

Fr Farrugia,

Baylor University is a private Baptist university in Texas. This university continues to have 1/4 of members of its Board of Regents elected by the Baptist General Convention of Texas.

Regnerus used subjects from homo parents that had a-priori family instability (experimental) to compare with subjects from stable hetero parents (control) -unacceptable bias in favour of the latter.

Fr Richard-Nazzreno Farrugia

Jan 19th, 15:55

The Church's position that allowing a gay couple to adopt is not in the best interest of the child is not based on purely confessional grounds but is also held by non-Christian people based on studies that do show that the issue of the parents' sexual orientation is not that irrelevant. See bibliography in http://darguzeppadebono.org/en/lifeissues/125-child-s-best-interest-a-call-to-relfection.htm

Alfred Falzon

Jan 19th, 16:48

Absolutely true!

So-called "same-sex marriage" turns a moral wrong into a civil right!

It is a grave threat 2 d traditional family based on Father, Mother & child/ren concept, being intrinsically a personal gratification of 2 same-sex individuals whose union is sterile by nature.

Legal recognition of "gay marriage" would obscure certain basic moral values & weaken public morality!

aaf

I Bugeja

Jan 19th, 17:57

Alfred please do elaborate on how the moral values would be obscured and how public morality would be weakened because this is the reasoning and kind of speech which made the Divorce legislation pass!!!

PS: to date i don't see the fabric of society any more damaged as it was before divorce.

Adrian P. Cassar

Jan 19th, 18:19

Fr Richard,
Of course a parent's sexual orientation DOES matter. Since children are the fruit of a heterosexual relationship, children of homosexuals are brought up in broken families!
With adoption by gay couples this is NOT the case, since one needs to be a stable couple to adopt.
We all know that kids from stable families fare better than those from broken families, it is a fact!

Adrian P. Cassar

Jan 19th, 18:22

Fr Richard:
If there is research showing that kids adopted by gays fare better than those in institutions, would the church change its views? Is your battle purely religious?

Alfred Falzon

Jan 19th, 18:26

@ I Bugeja

Pl read my numerous comments on this blog and you will know WHY!

You just want to beat about d bush for d sake of a lost cause!

A self-important minority of gays who are after a systematic demolition of d real MARRIAGE (that between a MALE and a FEMALE) will not impose its will on a GREAT MAJORITY of Maltese who still regard MARRIAGE as a PILLAR of society.

Hold a REFERENDUM!

aaf

I Bugeja

Jan 19th, 18:50

Alfred - marriage has nothing to do - by your warped reasoning the VAST MAJORITY of Maltese are already against marriage since they voted in favor of divorce.

I don't see it that way - I feel that the VAST MAJORITY of Maltese can think outside the box and know that although they try hard sometimes bad things happen and alternatives need to be available.

Alfred Falzon

Jan 19th, 22:06

@ I Bugeja

If that's what you think, then opt for a confirmation!

Militate in favour of a REFERENDUM and you will be in a better position to make a reappraisal of how much those who voted for divorce and those who abstained are in favour of a return to the age of primates!!

With adoption to boot!!

Civilised man cannot turn the clock back! Bear that in mind, dear fellow commentator!

aaf

Raymond Sammut

Jan 19th, 15:35

The bishop claims that the child's interests are best served by giving the child a "family" that resembles the "natural family".

Yet the Nazarene unequivocally repudiates this idea of "natural family":

"For whosoever shall do the will of God, he is my brother, and my sister, and mother."(Mk:3:35)

It's heretical for anyone, even for the bishop, to claim they know "whosoever" and "will of God".

Mary Pace

Jan 19th, 16:22

And in the four Gospels I could not find anything where Jesus is condemning homosexuals!

Carmel Ellul

Jan 19th, 16:43

So your are intending to prove that a publicly led gay relationship is the" will of God".

A Natural Family is a family made up of a " Man and a Woman not a pseudo man and a pseudo woman.

It is the Childrens' rights to live in a Natural Family and not a Human right to force children to live with a two people of same sex.

Children will become Cannibals if they grow up with Cannibals.

Joe M Borg

Jan 19th, 16:51

Mary Pace. Your gospel has quite a few pages missing, then. To start with there is the sixth commandment. Why don't you open it, to start with?

Alfred Falzon

Jan 19th, 16:55

@ Mary Pace

The Bible is made up of the Old and the New Testaments.
Since you referred to d religious aspect then it's within limit to speak of the doomed cities of Sodom and Gomorrah!
It is not just a legend, for the Israelis have proof that these localities did exist!
Pl do not ignore that part of the Bible which you dislike for reasons you know best!

Alfred A Falzon

E Richie

Jan 23rd, 13:11

@ mary pace.
I m afraid you are mistaken, how wrong you are ! Sodom and Gomorrah were destroyed because of their homosexuality, their orgies, their atrocities (old testament) and God tells us CLEARLY that ( quote) " .. homosexuals, murderers, theives, adulterers,... do NOT enbter the Kingdom of Heaven... " (Uquote) - New Testament. This is the danger of lack of knowledge., how sad.

Kurt Waschnig

Jan 19th, 15:33

@M Borg

The APA study is highly regarded by professors at Harvard, Princeton and Yale Universities or in Oxford and Cambridge and is frequently used for scientific studies. The Sigmund Freud Institute, the Adler Institute and other famous psychological and sociological institutions refer to this study.

M Borg

Jan 19th, 15:41

The discredited APA-endorsed studies have been used in attempts to impact international legal decisions

Adrian P. Cassar

Jan 19th, 18:23

MBorg, who "discredited" the studies? Conservative homophobes?

Vanessa Mifsud

Jan 19th, 15:21

Most of society grumbles about the risk of a child being brought up by a gay couple however no one seems to give concrete & factual reasons as to why it is risky. I have my own theory called the 'Baaaa theory' where society does what others do.. If the Church says something, we say the same,when anyone says something, we just copy. No one wants to think with his own mind & reason things out.

Antonio Micallef

Jan 19th, 16:30

A child needs to experience the love of a mother AND a father.

Joe M Borg

Jan 19th, 16:53

Vanessa You are just 'baaaaaing' what gay campaigners voice out. By nature, a child is born to a man and woman, and during the first years, the mother/father figure IS VITAL! Not the Church says this, but psychology, and common sense.

Adrian P. Cassar

Jan 19th, 18:24

Yes Antonio, parents not NUNS

X Gatt

Jan 19th, 15:21

M. Borg,
Regnerus’ study was not about parents who identify as gay. It was not about same-sex couples in long-term relationships raising children together. He admits “this is not about saying gay or lesbian parents are inherently bad,” , He knows it has no foundation on which to make such a claim.
http://thinkprogress.org/lgbt/2012/10/30/1110591/regnerus-admits-gay-parenting/?mobile=nc

M Borg

Jan 19th, 15:20

CONT

they were less able to trust and depend on others; and they experienced more anxiety in relationships compared to the women raised by heterosexual fathers.(9)

M Borg

Jan 19th, 15:19

The results of a 2009 study of women in New York, Boston, and San Francisco are similar. Researchers interviewed 68 women with gay or bisexual fathers and 68 women with heterosexual fathers. The women (average age 29 in both groups) with gay or bisexual fathers had difficulty with adult attachment issues in three areas: they were less comfortable with closeness and intimacy;

Adrian P. Cassar

Jan 19th, 16:26

Dear M Borg,
If someone has a gay or bisexual father then they must have had a broken family, because families aren't usually a stable family if a parent has a homosexual relationship!
What one must compare is like with like...I.e. adopted children by heterosexual vs homosexual couples.
And if you can compare kids brought up in institutions vs those brought up by gay couples, even better!

Saviour Pirotta

Jan 19th, 15:18

No one disputes the fact that the Church does a lot of good but it is shocking that the higher echelons still treat human beings as just statistics. No child adopted by same sex couples has been quoted by the bishop. There are thousands of these kids, many of them old and articulate enough to voice their own opinion, from experiences as to the possible advantages/disadvantages of such adoptions.

M Borg

Jan 19th, 15:18

In 1996 a well-designed study of 174 primary school children in Australia -- 58 children in married families, 58 in families headed by cohabitating heterosexuals and 58 in home with homosexual unions – suggested that married couples offered the best environment for a child’s social and education environment. Cohabiting couples were second best and homosexual couples came last

Adrian P. Cassar

Jan 19th, 16:33

You obviously are just copying and pasting. How on earth did you decide that it was "we'll designed"?
Once again most people raised by homosexual partners have experienced a divorce, while only a few of the others do.

Why don't you mention the scores of other "well designed" studies M Borg?
It's called picking and choosing!

paul fava

Jan 19th, 15:16

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-18690348

Matthew Grima

Jan 19th, 15:06

Straight couple who chose to adopt usually do so because they cannot have their own (there are some exceptions of course). Isn't nature the reason why they are not able to create children of their own? So doesn't that make it unnatural for this couple to have children?

If we shouldn't give children to those who aren't naturally capable of having their own, than this couple fits in the same basket

Kurt Waschnig

Jan 19th, 15:03

One of the most important results of this study is that sexual orientation is not a significant predictor of behavioural problems.
Therefore same-sex couples should have the legal right to adopt children in Malta.

M Borg

Jan 19th, 15:12

Experimenting on children by permitting adoption by same sex couples poses serious problems. Children have a right to and a need for parenting by both a father and a mother. This need should be recognized by the state and by professional groups as far more important than an adult’s supposed right to adopt.

I do not agree with you however you are free to adopt with your lover in your country

Colette Farrugia Bennett

Jan 19th, 16:13

@ M Borg
Children need to be loved and not brought up by a mother and a father. Otherwise, there are serious problems with many children who have absent fathers and mothers, one of their parents or both are deceased, or are living in out-of-home care!

Adrian P. Cassar

Jan 19th, 16:35

So would you rather kids are brought up in an institution M Borg?
Is being taken care of by a bunch of nuns a normal family environment?
So much for caring for kids! Or are you just homophobic?

Alfred Falzon

Jan 19th, 17:13

@ Kurt Washnig

We r not impressed d least by your so-called surveys!
U quote from sources most people in d USA REJECT!
Citing few figures out of millions who inhabit d USA is just like putting blinkers on & bawling out YES! "same-sex unions" ( they r NOT MARRIAGES by any stretch of d imagination) r good for u GULLIBLE MALTESE!
No, they have NO right 2 turn a moral wrong into a civil right!

aaf

Kurt Waschnig

Jan 19th, 14:59

11. The study shows clearly that sexual orientation is not a significant predictor of behavioural problems.

Kurt Waschnig

Jan 19th, 14:54

7. We must pay attention to the data indicating that gay and lesbian parents are as fit as heterosexual parents to adopt, because at least 130,000 children are depending on us to act as informed advocates on their behalf.” Averett was referring to the estimated number of children currently awaiting adoption in Malta.

Kurt Waschnig

Jan 19th, 14:53

6. “There is no difference in children raised by gay or lesbian parents and heterosexual parents. People are people.” Added Paige Averett, an assistant professor of social work at East Carolina University.” There are implications for social work educators, adoption professionals and policy makers in this and other recent studies.

Kurt Waschnig

Jan 19th, 14:53

5. All were surveyed about their own characteristics and those of their children, their family´s make-up and dynamics, the children´s pre-adoptive history and their current emotional and behavioural functioning. The results, published in the Adoption Quarterly show that in the words of lead study author Scott Ryan.

Kurt Waschnig

Jan 19th, 14:48

10. And the survey found out that children adopted into gay families are every bit as emotionally healthy as straight couples' adoptees.

M Borg

Jan 19th, 14:57

The greatest negative outcomes were found among children of lesbian mothers. This contradicts defective studies popularized by the media claiming children fare as well, or better, with lesbian mothers. Regnerus’ study showed negative outcomes for these adult children in 25 of 40 categories including far higher rates of sexual assault

M Borg

Jan 19th, 14:58

( Cont )

23% of children with lesbian mothers were touched sexually by a parent or adult, in contrast to 2% raised by married parents), poorer physical health, increased depression, increased marijuana use and higher unemployment (69% of children from lesbian households were on welfare, compared to 17% of those with married parents).

M Borg

Jan 19th, 15:01

3

Regnerus’ study debunks an often-cited 2005 American Psychological Association brief that concluded, “Not a single study has found children of lesbian or gay parents to be disadvantaged in any significant respect relative to children of heterosexual parents."

In contrast to Regnerus, previous studies compared children of homosexual parents to children of stepfamilies and single parents.

M Borg

Jan 19th, 15:02

4

A second new study confirms the studies touted by the APA are unreliable. Loren Marks, an associate professor at Louisiana State University, found the APA’s studies had limited data and focused on gender roles and sexual identities. They neglected to examine the children’s education outcomes, employment, risks of substance abuse, criminal behavior or suicide.

M Borg

Jan 19th, 15:05

A second new study confirms the studies touted by the APA are unreliable. Loren Marks, an associate professor at Louisiana State University, found the APA’s studies had limited data and focused on gender roles and sexual identities. They neglected to examine the children’s education outcomes, employment, risks of substance abuse, criminal behavior or suicide.

M Borg

Jan 19th, 15:06

The discredited APA-endorsed studies have been used in attempts to impact international legal decisions

Adrian P. Cassar

Jan 19th, 16:44

M Borg I suggest you read what Regnerus himself says bout the study. His study does NOT compare kids adopted by straight vs gay couples, but kids raised by stable straight couples vs kids with a mother who had gay relationships.
How exactly you decide that the scores of other studies are wrong is beyond me!
Moreover you seem to ignore completely kids who are brought up in institutions...

Kurt Waschnig

Jan 19th, 14:43

9. The study shows clearly that sexual orientation is a significant predictor of behavioural problems.

M Borg

Jan 19th, 15:14

The most important issue is the welfare of the child. Social science research has repeatedly demonstrated the vital importance of both a father and a mother for the healthy development of children and the serious risks that they face if they are raised without a mother or a father. Mothers and fathers bring unique gifts that are essential to the health of a child.

Kurt Waschnig

Jan 19th, 14:43

8.In fact, the study found that the major predictors of emotional problems in adopted children were age at adoption and pre-adoption sexual abuse, not the sexual orientation of any of the parents. Likewise, reduction in emotional problems was associated with higher annual income, a fluid adoption process, and functionality within the family—not with straight parents.

Kurt Waschnig

Jan 19th, 14:43

Kurt Waschnig

Jan 19th, 14:42

Kurt Waschnig

Jan 19th, 14:42

Kurt Waschnig

Jan 19th, 14:42

4. The new study was conducted by professors at Arlington and used data from a survey of parents who adopted children through Florida´s state child welfare agencies, as well as data on gay and lesbian adoptive couples nationally. The study included nearly 1230 straight couples and 155 gay and lesbian couples.

Kurt Waschnig

Jan 19th, 14:40

3. Even though, as the American Psychological Association states, “beliefs that gay and lesbians adults are not fit parents have no empirical foundation,” such prejudices have persisted. A study of over 1.300 adoptive couples (University of Texas at Arlington) provided further evidence of an intuitive truth:

Kurt Waschnig

Jan 19th, 14:39

2. A recent study conducted by professors at the University of Texas at Arlington shows that children adopted by gay couples are emotionally healthy. Conservative advocacy groups have long claimed that children adopted by gay couples suffer from more emotional issued than those placed with straight couples.

Kurt Waschnig

Jan 19th, 14:39

1. Freedom of religion and speech are pillars of every democratic constitution and Auxiliary Bishop Charles Scicluna has spoken out against adoption by gay couples. Ideology and traditions should not be used to discuss that topic. I am of the opinion a scientific approach is better.

S. Calleja

Jan 19th, 14:29

I believe that the argument of whether gays should adopt or not is not dissimilar to whether parents should send their child to a public, private, or Church school. Though parents might have their particular opinions, fact is, it is not the type of school in as much the aptitude of the individual child to study and reach his or her goals that would eventually lead to eventual success and happiness

Andrew Busuttil

Jan 19th, 14:18

This newcomer bishop likes to stick his foot into this country's day to day business...
Way too much for my liking!

Francis Saliba M.D.

Jan 19th, 14:33

@AndrewBusuttil

It is as much the country of this "newcomer" bishop as it is your country with the added Constitutional and religious responsibility of all our bishops to teach what is right and what is wrong in the eyes of the official religion of the state.

Matthew Grima

Jan 19th, 14:41

"in the eyes of the official religion of the state." how convenient.

How come you throw a hissy fit when some say that the church is imposing its beliefs then?

I Bugeja

Jan 19th, 18:05

While I do not agree in the way Francis expresses himself, he is constitutionally correct!

However bear in mind that the more people like him hiss, the more public opinion turns its favors to the underdog.

Media is very powerful if it is used well.

Francis Saliba M.D.

Jan 19th, 19:33

@MatthewGrima.

It is not "convenient". It is the Constitutional Law and it is there by the will of the people so much so that neither atheists nor gays have attempted to challenge it even though they have every right to do so.

Matthew Grima

Jan 20th, 20:49

No it is not there by the will of the people, it is there because it's been there for ages and no one seems to care. I do agree that no one has actually tried removing it, and that's a shame.

Alexandra MalliaBorg

Jan 19th, 14:06

What does the Bishop know about adoptions? this never fails to amaze me how the man of the cloth seems to run our lives and dictate and want us to love the way they want to live theirs, cause they are clergy. my advice to them is mind your own business, all people regardless have a right to live and in most cases do a better job then ordinary married couples. This is 2013 & not the pre-war years.

Francis Saliba M.D.

Jan 19th, 14:38

@AlexandraMalliaBorg

.Bishop Charles Scicluna knows about "adoptions" just as much as a criminal judge knows about murders. A judge is not expected to be a murderer to judge a case of murder and neither does a bishop have to adopt children before being competent to discuss adoptions by gays.

A.Felix Busuttil

Jan 19th, 14:06

Dear Bishop, gays were born gays, GOD made them gays.

S Ellul

Jan 19th, 14:30

Amen to that.

Francis Saliba M.D.

Jan 19th, 14:41

Whoever "made" gays God did not approve sodomy, just as although murderers are created by God it does not follow that God approves murder.

L Zerafa

Jan 19th, 15:23

Is Mr Saliba comparing gay people to murderers? Wow

Alfred Falzon

Jan 19th, 17:17

@ A.Felix Busuttil

What about the doomed cities of Sodom and Gomorrah, since you like to quote from the Bible?!

I trust you know the whole story but then it's not to your liking!

Alfred A Falzon

Francis Saliba M.D.

Jan 19th, 19:03

@L Zerafa

Your "wow" is not any sort of logical argument at all. I hope that in time you will learn to do better.

Mr E Phillips

Jan 19th, 21:22

Francis,
......is not any sort of logical argument.' Unlike your continual quoting of the word of, the mythical, god. Which is logic personified.

Antonio Micallef

Jan 19th, 13:56

As a voter I think I have a right to demand all candidates to the General Elections to declare beforehand how they would vote when this issue is to voted upon. I for one will definitely not vote for any candidate in favour of such a measure.

Mr Edward Caruana Galizia

Jan 19th, 14:05

Then you should move to Uganda where they are passing a bill to sentence homosexuals to life in prison, or even the death. The Pope gave his blessing to the speaker of the house who is pushing these laws, so obviously you must agree with it since you feel you cannot possibly disagree with the Pope.

Francis Saliba M.D.

Jan 19th, 14:46

@MrEdwardCaruanaGalizia

H.H. the Pope would not "give his blessing to a speaker of the house" BECAUSE he was the figurehead speaker of a Ugandan parliament. Under ordinary circumstances a speaker of the house would not even have a say in the laws passed by parliament.

Adrian P. Cassar

Jan 19th, 14:51

Antonio....I am sure that the Labour Party would never have been elected in the 70s had it proclaimed it would decriminalize homosexuality.
The majority are more than willing to suppress the rights of minorities. Hopefully both parties decide to do what is right, logical and scientifically justified!

Mr Edward Caruana Galizia

Jan 19th, 15:23

It s in the guardian newspaper. Read it.

Adrian P. Cassar

Jan 19th, 16:47

Francis, did your dear HH say something regarding Ugandan sodomy laws? Ghax xi kultant il knisja ghanda dritt u dmir titkellem, u kultant toqghod siekta! Iddeciedi Francis!

Francis Saliba M.D.

Jan 19th, 19:08

@AdrianPCassar.

Why ask me? You want to know. You find out. People of your mentality demand that the Pope speaks out but when he speaks out you complain that he is interfering with the state of Uganda. And you are not even aware of the stupidity of your attitude to the Church. You should be ignored.

L Zerafa

Jan 19th, 13:55

The Bible contains all the answers to our modern day questions and also brings peace to humanity.
(Deuteronomy 22:28-29 NLT)

If a man is caught in the act of raping a young woman who is not engaged, he must pay fifty pieces of silver to her father. Then he must marry the young woman because he violated her, and he will never be allowed to divorce her.

Raymond Sammut

Jan 19th, 14:14

Their idea is not to get caught.

L Zerafa

Jan 19th, 14:26

it's the law of God.

Eric Soames

Jan 19th, 14:30

Have you cleansed yourself after spontaneous nocturnal emissions? Leviticus 15.

S. Calleja

Jan 19th, 14:31

What if she is engaged? Will he be forced to marry her fiance as well?

X Gatt

Jan 19th, 15:09

L Zerafa: It is dangerous and irresponsible to use a collection of bronze age writings to understand today's world.
Feel free to interpret them to kingdom come but please do not impose your delusion on others. Those with their feet firmly planted in reality use scientific and empirical methods to evaluate situations.

L Zerafa

Jan 19th, 17:10

Mr Gatt, you have misinterpreted the spirit of my comment. I picked that particular section from the Bible to show how irrelevant it is to contemporary society. And since we do not follow this particular law, why should we follow others that are equally ridiculous?

Alton Costa

Jan 19th, 13:43

So since we now know God hates the homosexuality practice (not the person), we also have to take Jesus words into perspective in Mark 9:32 “Whoever causes one of these little ones who believe in me to sin, it would be better for him if a great millstone were hung around his neck and he were thrown into the sea." - this is clear that God would never accept homosexuals to adopt Children.

Carmelo Aquilina

Jan 19th, 13:59

how will homosexuals harm kids - sexual abuse is not confined to a particular sexuality is it ? But for the Church to preach to use on this issue is hypocritical - because it seems that it is OK for priests to abuse kids and have the Holy Catholic apostolic Church hide their crimes ?

Alton Costa

Jan 19th, 14:09

@ Mr Aquilina - I am not here to defend the Catholic church but to show what's in God's Word as it should be done by anyone who believes in Jesus. I am not saying they will harm the child but they will influence the child with their corrupt practice. Just like a man betraying his wife in front of the children or doing any other kind of sin.

Matthew Grima

Jan 19th, 14:44

That is not god's word, it's man's word, believed to be god's word.

S. Calleja

Jan 19th, 14:46

Mr Costa, the way you say it, it's like it's perfectly fine for a man and a woman to have sex in front of a child. Because, you know, they're not gay so it's not corrupt practice.

Adrian P. Cassar

Jan 19th, 14:54

Since you take the bible literally Alton....i suppose you propose hanging millstones around gay people and throwing them in the sea?

Mr Edward Caruana Galizia

Jan 19th, 13:42

Dear Bishop, if you really cared about the people of the world you would at least do the necessary leg work before coming up with an opinion. You start from a point of prejudice and ignorance.

Here is a link to a web site where you can download the research titled "Different Families" which will hopefully show you how wrong you are.

http://www.stonewall.org.uk/what_we_do/research_and_policy/417

Francis Saliba M.D.

Jan 19th, 14:48

Auxiliary Bishop C Scicluna would take inspiration from Christ and his Church not from a website.

Mr Edward Caruana Galizia

Jan 19th, 15:24

It s not just a website. And this is not inspiration. This is fact.

Alfred Falzon

Jan 19th, 17:24

@ Ed Caruana Galizia

You seem to like to quote from one source only, d one to your liking!

Now, I refer you to another with d title:

"10 reasons why Homosexual Marriage is harmful and must be Opposed"

< http://www.tfpstudentaction.org/politically-incorrect/homosexuality/10-reasons >

Alfred A Falzon

Mr Edward Caruana Galizia

Jan 19th, 18:46

Your link didn't work.

I don't just look at information that suits me. But I do have reservations about the opinions, not facts, of people who use no facts in any of their arguments. Even in light of all the scientific research people say no to same sex marriage and adoptions by gay couples. This is usually because they are homophobic.

Alfred Falzon

Jan 19th, 22:22

@ Ed Caruana Galizia

Sorry if link did not work.

The new content which is now replacing the text I referred you to, comprises a framed free subscription to which one can adhere if s/he so wishes by including e-mail address, but of course this is a purely personal matter.

I'll be citing other links in case you are interested.

Apologies for d inconvenience.

Alfred A Falzon

Alton Costa

Jan 19th, 13:38

Why many believe there is a God and the majority of these people do not care what is God's will? The will of God is unchangeable, unlike that of politicians. Listen to what God says in 1 Corinthians 6:9-10: "Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: neither the sexually immoral,...nor adulterers, nor men who practice homosexuality...."

Raymond Sammut

Jan 19th, 13:52

One cannot expect readers to listen to what God says in Corinthians.

You are free to practice your "religion", but you are not free to expect others to practice it with you.

Andrew Busuttil

Jan 19th, 13:52

So sorry to break it to you...
...But that is not God's will!

That was the narrow minded and sexist St Paul speaking to the Corinthians.

S. Calleja

Jan 19th, 13:58

Thanks, that put my mind at rest since I only practice copious amounts of heterosexuality. Halleluiah!

Alton Costa

Jan 19th, 13:59

@ Andrew Busuttil - i am not sure about you believes but The Bible is not a book of ingredients from which you can pick and choose, it was yes written by men but inspired by God. If you do not believe that than you are not only denying the Bible as God's Word but Jesus as God since He is the Word of God. When you say Paul is a sexist you really do not know anything about the culture of those times

Andrew Busuttil

Jan 19th, 14:28

@Alton Costa

Again wrong... The new testament is a very ARBITRARY collection of writings by men who lived between AD50 & AD150 - some perhaps inspired some maybe not.

It was another bunch of (probably sexist) misguided church men during the Second Council of Trullan in AD692 that ARBITRARY decided what was the word of God and what was not...

Well I am a man of 2013... and I beg to differ!!

S Ellul

Jan 19th, 14:28

So what are you saying Mr. Costa? That everything from the culture of that time must be applied to ours? Oh and, right, we cannot pick and choose. Check your clothing, Mr. Costa, was it made from two different kinds of materials? And you must also think that women are not allowed to teach or have authority over men? And slaves are a-ok? And I do hope you've never planted two crops in one field.

Matthew Grima

Jan 19th, 14:47

Well said Andrew Busuttil.

Some don't even know that Jesus was made the son of god as a result of vote by Council of Nicaea.

Mary Pace

Jan 19th, 16:32

Mr Costa it is not what God says but letters of St. Paul to Corinthians. If you do not know their culture was that woman were purely for bearing children but homosexuality was part of their everyday life and implied their important status in society. That is what St. Paul is attacking and not true homosexuals. How can God hate homosexuality when he created it!

S Ellul

Jan 19th, 13:35

To everyone saying that homosexuality is unnatural. Homo- and bisexuality is quite common in nature. A few examples:

A quarter of Black Swan pairings are homosexual. 45% of sexual interactions of Elephants are homosexual. Bonobos are fully bisexual, and are, besides Chimpanzees (Who are also no strangers to homosexuality), genetically the closest apes to us.

Homesexuality is not against nature.

Francis Saliba M.D.

Jan 19th, 13:40

What is natural in the animal kingdom is not automatically natural for a Homo sapiens endowed with superior intellect.

S. Calleja

Jan 19th, 13:45

Dr Saliba, you are right. Animals with inferior intellect tend to be more of a joyful company that most specimen from Homo Sapiens.

Mario Buhagiar

Jan 19th, 13:46

Francis, before christians ruled the world, all tribes and empires known had no objection to homosexuality. Eg. romans, macedonians, greeks, japanese, egyptians... In some it was even favoured. Even tribes nowadays which are far away from civilised world practice homosexuality. So i think its the religion values which are indeed unnatural here :/

Carmelo Aquilina

Jan 19th, 13:49

so when it suits the church it espouses "natural' methods and when it doesn't it espouses 'superior intellect'

M Attard

Jan 19th, 13:54

I agree .... But how many of them adopt ?

S Ellul

Jan 19th, 13:57

Honestly, looking at humans, I'm not always too sure what's superior about us at all. Gay adoption won't harm anyone, certainly not the children. A family is better than no family, and this includes same-sex parents.

Andrew Busuttil

Jan 19th, 14:02

@Francis Saliba M.D.

Dear Francis... ahhh... It's you again!!

As you put it... It would be Misusing our so called superior intellect if we attempt to eradicate homosexuality in the human species... THAT would be the unnatural thing to do...

Going against nature's will is futile. "So Live and let live!!"
That is the wisdom taught by mother nature...
You would be advised to heed to its counsel

Francis Saliba M.D.

Jan 19th, 14:59

@Andrew Busuttil Today at 14:02

I did not say any of the things that you attribute to me about “eradicating homosexuality” or about “wisdom taught by mother nature”. There is no need for me to answer your random thoughts and still less to heed your advice. Buzz off.

twanny borg

Jan 19th, 15:01

It-tkattir in-natura taghtu lil ragel u mara biex jiehdu hsieb it-tfal.

Mr E Phillips

Jan 19th, 15:46

Francis,
So now we have different levels of 'naturalness'? And these levels are dictated by intellect.
So by your logic, you've debunked your own argument.

Francis Saliba M.D.

Jan 19th, 18:59

@E Phillips.

Don't be daft. What I am saying is that what is natural to an amoeba is not necessarily natural to man. An amoeba reproduces by fission but man reproduces sexually. Why does that surprise you and why do you conclude that I am debunking my own statement? You are absolutely illogical and not deserving of more replies.

Mr E Phillips

Jan 19th, 20:06

Nope, that's not what you said. I'm not going to quote the statement again as I'm sure your capable of scrolling up to check yourself
However, as your man point, outwith the hocus pocus bigotry of your bible teachings, is that its unnatural. As you so concisely explained what is 'natural' to one intelligence level may not be natural to another.
Please continue to evade the indoctrination issue.

Mr E Phillips

Jan 19th, 20:14

Francis
(Cont) You are absolutely illogical and not deserving of more replies. I'm the illogical one? Coming from the adult who quotes from a book of fairytales and lives by medieval code. And I'm the illogical one......

M Attard

Jan 19th, 13:34

Nature put it to is so very clearly for us. It takes a MAN AND A WOMAN to make a child. That is just the natural order. We are not hermaphrodites! The environment a child should grow must be as natural as possible.

S. Calleja

Jan 19th, 13:42

You'd be oh so surprised with nature and the natural order if you just bothered to watch the Discovery Channel...

S Ellul

Jan 19th, 13:48

Actually, male homosexual Black Swan couples use a female to create the eggs and then the two males raise the offspring. Just saying.

Carmelo Aquilina

Jan 19th, 14:00

and this is about ADOPTION not procreation - are you s aying you would hand over a child to an abusive heterosexual couple because they can procreate and not to a loving caring homosexual couple...boy your priorities are really warped !

Mr Jimmy Vella

Jan 19th, 13:30

I am an ateast, and do despise all religions with a passion, but on this one the Bishop has a point,If at all possible children should be brought up by a male and a female so that the child has the input of both the male and female love.On the other hand this is not the ideal world and it`s better to give somebody a loving home be it a gay coupe rather than living in an institution.

PM Camilleri

Jan 19th, 13:24

Gay Parenting Could Negatively Impact Kids

http://www.cbn.com/cbnnews/us/2012/June/Gay-Parenting-Could-Negatively-Impacts-Kids/

Mr Edward Caruana Galizia

Jan 19th, 14:03

Yes Mr Camilleri, CBN, a religious right wing news channel in the US that advertises the 700 club and the Bible on its website. What a reliable source you've found us.

Adrian P. Cassar

Jan 19th, 14:44

Dear PM Camilleri,
The study that is mentioned compared kids from stable heterosexual parents versus kids whose parent had a homosexual partner during their lifetime. As one might imagine, a parent who has a homosexual affair results in a broken family. So they compared stable family vs broken family.....and the result is therefore not surprising!

L Zerafa

Jan 19th, 13:21

A straight couple should not be allowed to raise a child because Jesus had 12 apostles to teach humans not one man one woman!!!1!!

S. Calleja

Jan 19th, 13:31

Exactly, not to mention the fact that Jesus himself was adopted by a man who was not his real Father (a Saint nonetheless), and that his biological Mother was a surrogate.

Francis Saliba M.D.

Jan 19th, 13:31

The specific scope for the apostles was to spread the gospel not to ensure the survival of the human race.

Raymond Sammut

Jan 19th, 13:48

@ S. Calleja

If Matthew were written first, one might want to believe it. But Mark was written first, and no-one knows who the authors of Matthew were.

Nowhere in Mark there is any reference to surrogacy or such heresy.

Joe Spiteri

Jan 19th, 13:48

@ S.Calleja. Rightly so. But still a man and a woman!

Mario Buhagiar

Jan 19th, 13:56

@ Joe Spiteri, Actually Jesus had 2 male fathers, St Joseph and God... and a mother..

Andrew Busuttil

Jan 19th, 14:12

@Mario Buhagiar

And since when is God male?

Mario Buhagiar

Jan 19th, 14:29

Good point, but in the Bible, he says "Missier, jekk tista bieghed minni dan il-kalci"... and we also say God the Father, the son and the holy spirit... etc. So I'm assuming he's male

Matthew Grima

Jan 19th, 14:51

But but but.. he's out of the realm of physics, we cannot understand him/her/it Mario.

You'll get that reply if you keep trying, best cop out there is.

joseph camilleri

Jan 19th, 13:21

So True!!

Mario Buhagiar

Jan 19th, 13:15

Sure, making a boy/girl of 18 yrs fend for their lives after they leave the orphanage! That's really the child interest! Also, its impossible to continue studying after 18yrs and working at the same time for a living! So you are also affecting the child's education and future. Try to think logically and not jump to your Bible's conclusions

M Vella

Jan 19th, 13:12

Bishop Charles Scicluna is so right on this one,I agree Prosit.

Alfred Gatt

Jan 19th, 13:34

Agree completely with the Bishop. Let us think ahead for the adopted child's future and not for the moment. The best formation comes from the different sexes.

Christine Attard

Jan 19th, 13:12

At last someone is talking about gay marriage. Let alone adoption. Dont these people look at the problems they will be causing the child? A child with no mum or no dad but 2 mums or 2 dads, well isn't it enough to aliment bullies at school?

Mario Buhagiar

Jan 19th, 13:17

Can't you see that if the child is not adopted, s/he will have to leave the orphanage at 18 years and fend alone for his/her life without any family or help? is that good? seriously? are people mature enough to live on their own at 18 yrs? the problem is actually the homophobes and not the actual gay family

John Dalton

Jan 19th, 13:10

The Bishop is quite right, I was Adopted at the age of ten after being passed around to 5 different sets of foster parents in the UK. The only thing that I ever looked for were a proper loving Mother and Father which I eventualy got.Not 2 Mothers or 2 Fathers. Children should not be offered to Gay or Lesbian Couples until they are at an age where they can understand and make up their own minds.

Joe Spiteri

Jan 19th, 13:51

Agree 100%. Children must be old enough to decide for themselves.

Carmelo Aquilina

Jan 19th, 14:01

then it's too late is it - being stuck in orphanages until you are of 'age' ? Would you also apply that to being baptised then ?

Andrew Busuttil

Jan 19th, 14:14

@Carmelo Aquilina

I should hope so!

Mario Buhagiar

Jan 19th, 13:10

What you seem to not know is... Gay adoption is already legal! Its just gay joint adoption which isn't!! maaaa

Raymond Sammut

Jan 19th, 13:27

It is not illegal in Malta --whether joint or otherwise.

Gay adoption is simply not recognised at law in Malta. That is, the adopted child does not have access to social benefits even though his/her gay carers pay taxes like everyone else.

S. Calleja

Jan 19th, 13:33

If being raised by two people of the same sex is a problem, what problem would it be when you are raised by a dozen people of the same sex?

Mario Buhagiar

Jan 19th, 13:49

Exactly raymond. I stand corrected, but thats what I meant

S. Calleja I'm in favour of gay adoption. Especially since it just needs to be recognized by law, as in practice it is already happening

Andrew Busuttil

Jan 19th, 14:15

@ S. Calleja

You hit the nail on the head!

Roger Tirazona

Jan 19th, 13:07

"family that resembles the natural family made up of a mother, father and children,”

Why? Are such children better off? Research says not necessarily.
How many children today who come from this environment yet suffer anyway of a lot of problems. There are those who have gay parents today and do not have any problems whatsoever.

The notion of gay parents raising gay children is a fallacy.

Victor Pulis

Jan 19th, 12:58

Alfred Falzon
Today, 11:38
@ Raymond Sammut
So let's be copycats and go back to the Age of Caves when primitive humanoids used to copulate in the open regardless of sex!

And where did you get this bit of interesting historical information?

Raymond Sammut

Jan 19th, 13:30

Please don't quote my name, Mr Pulis. Some readers might think it was me who made that outlandish statement.

Age of Caves. Copulating and that. Wow.

Alfred Falzon

Jan 19th, 14:23

@ Victor Pulis

Please get it into your head that at one point in time man was but a humanoid roaming wild like a beast with no moral values whatsoever!

There was no marriage at the time, only copulation, and primates were free to act as they pleased!

Is that what our tiny self-centred gay community is yearning for?

Civil rights my foot, let alone human rights!

Alfred A Falzon

Andrea Sammut

Jan 19th, 12:57

The bishop has obviously not read any scientific literature other than that dusty old book they can't seem to get enough of... Gay and lesbians have been found to be better parents on average than heterosexual couples.

This is probably due to the fact that LGBT couples cannot get drunk and accidentally make themselves a baby, they have to WANT to be parents!

Seychell Saviour

Jan 19th, 13:27

I have three children and no one of them was made accidentally because I was drunk - please don't generalise to make your point

Joseph Sammut

Jan 19th, 13:28

They LGBT couples cannot get drunk and accidentally make a baby, therefore LBGT coupdles are better parents than heterosexuals: what kind of an argument is this? And would you base you opinion on this non-starter reason?

Mr Edward Caruana Galizia

Jan 19th, 13:49

I think what Andrea Sammut is saying is, just because you can have children doesn't mean you deserve to have children, and vice versa.

There are straight couples who end up with children they never wanted, and make life hell for those kids. Plus, we are talking about orphans, whose straight parents don't want them, be it for financial reasons or others, and homosexual parents who do want kids.

Luke Lanzon

Jan 19th, 12:52

It's a good thing the church doesn't have a say in politics...... or does it? In "catholic" Malta

Joseph Sammut

Jan 19th, 13:30

It definitely has a say in our daily lives because we are Christians, we are Catholic. It has a right to make comments to our election drunk leaders, who are promising the world in fear of loosing votes.

Steven Brockwell

Jan 19th, 12:51

abortion will be next in the firing political views, gays will be gays no problem with that, yet it does not mean that i like it or agree with it. a single person will not be able to foster. so how can two single gays adopt ?
so lets go for gay marriage. whats next bring down the cross it offends me!
no hope of the pope ever coming here again. what next? where are we heading

Mr Edward Caruana Galizia

Jan 19th, 13:51

Being in favour of gay marriage does not mean you are automatically in favour of abortion. For example, I am in favour of gay marriage, but not in favour of abortion. This is no slippery slope we are on. Just an improvement of our civil liberties.

Francis Saliba M.D.

Jan 19th, 15:06

It is very possible that being in favour of gay marriage (without actually being gay) means that one is an "enlightened secularist" who would be in favour of divorce and abortion on demand, euthanasia etc. But these antireligious secularists are not so stupid as to put all their cards on the table at once. They prefer the Chinese torture method of killing slowly by a thousand cuts.

Mr Edward Caruana Galizia

Jan 19th, 15:27

I am not torturing anyone. All my friends know I am against abortion. Seem agree and some don't. We might talk about it but it s not a big deal because neither of us are going to change each others opinion.

Joe M Borg

Jan 19th, 12:43

Eddie Privitera. Stop writing about PN 'NOT ALLOWING' burial bla bla. YOUR MLP are famous for: NOT ALLOWING PN to hold a mass meeting at Zejtun. NOT ALLOWING computers. NOT ALLOWING good chocolate. NOT ALLOWING polithecnic. NOT ALLOWING church schools freedom. NOT ALLOWING free health. NOT ALLOWING Eddie's name (the OTHER Eddie) to be mentioned on TV. Anything else, Eddie?

Jonathan Camilleri

Jan 19th, 12:42

Joseph Sammut

Jan 19th, 13:32

Have you considered that Mgr. Scicluna is following natural law?

Paul Azzopardi

Jan 19th, 17:11

Because it's obvious, it's nature.

Joseph Mizzi

Jan 19th, 12:30

As far as I know the Maltese law does not give married couples the automatic right to adopt children, neither does it exclude anyone else from doing so. The guiding rule should be the best interest of the adopted child not the 'rights' of any individual or couple. So why include adoption as a civil right for gay couples in the civil union legislation?

Karl Bugeja

Jan 19th, 12:25

Its only in the best interest of the church and not of the child.

Children who live in orphanages who do not have the needed attention and those children who are taken away from the social welfare services cause their parents are drug addicts or they are being abused by their own parents should be given a second chance and an opportunity to find love care and affection by someone.

Joseph Sammut

Jan 19th, 13:34

Of they should, but to families with a mother and a father, as nature calls for.

S. Calleja

Jan 19th, 13:49

If you were gay, Mr Sammut, nature would call for something else. Is this that hard to understand?

Joseph Sammut

Jan 19th, 15:41

@ S. Calleja: but I am not gay

S. Calleja

Jan 20th, 04:03

"But I am not gay". You must be Christian then. Jesus would be oh so proud of you.

E Borg

Jan 19th, 12:21

Children who are adopted, are already at a disadvantage as they feel that their natural parents abandoned them. If they are adopted by gay couples, even though these have a lot of love to give, they will feel that they are unfortunate when they compare themselves to other children coming from "normal" families. Let us not forget that we are talking about children not adults!

S. Calleja

Jan 19th, 12:46

They will only feel unfortunately if they are led to believe that it is unfortunate to be raised by gay couples, which of course is not unless you are seriously prejudiced.

M Abdilla

Jan 19th, 13:00

They will only feel different because people have ingrained it in their heads that a same-sex couple is in some way or another below a heterosexual couple.

Joseph Sammut

Jan 19th, 13:38

@S. Calleja: call me seriously prejudiced if you like, but being raised by gay couples is indeed unfortunate. I don't know if you have raised childred, but one thing that a parent notices is how much kids try to imitate their parents. If you are gay oriented from birth is one thing, but if you influenced in your formative years is a totally different thing.

Joseph Sammut

Jan 19th, 13:43

@M. Abdilla: ingrained by Nature. Gay people are a very small minority worldwide. Some say that gays are huge in number and growing. The percentage by birth over the years remains the same - it is a natural thing. The reason gays are on the increase is becuase, quite sadly for the world,there are heterosexuals who think that it is hip to be gay.

S. Calleja

Jan 19th, 13:48

Hence that's why children raised by a male and female are all straight, aren't they Mr Sammut? And why boys raised by lesbians turn out to be lesbians themselves, don't they Mr Sammut?

Joseph Sammut

Jan 19th, 15:48

@ S. Calleja: No not all childred born to straight couples are heterosexual because that is nature. The danger is becoming gay in an unnatural way, because you are subjected to a homosexual ambient. And don't even try to convince everybody that life in a gay family does not experience domestic conflicts as in heterosexual families; it's part of human nature.

Mr Anthony Zarb

Jan 19th, 12:21

Gays and Lesbians are being somewhat selfish here. Give a child a chance to grow in a home if it has no natural parents and then choose the family to be adopted in when it is in a position to choose and not forcing upon them an adoption that could have ripercussions. Why not be democratic vis a vis the children as well and give them a chance to choose their future family as in fostering.?

S. Calleja

Jan 19th, 12:55

Gays and lesbians do not want exclusive rights for adoption. They just want equal rights. I don't think that's selfish. Considering that someone raised in a loving environment, irrespective of the parents' sex, grows up well adjusted, I think this is only fair. Until you start arguing from a religions perspective, that is. Then reason tends to fly straight out of the window.

Raymond Sammut

Jan 19th, 13:20

An adoption is not "forced" upon a child. The Commissioner for Children in Malta is entrusted to ensure that this is always the case in accordance with the Children Act.

Joe Spiteri

Jan 19th, 13:55

@ Raymond Sammut. Are adopted children always old enough to decide for themselves?

Raymond Sammut

Jan 19th, 14:09

@ Joe Spiteri

Children cannot decide for themselves. That's why they are adopted and looked after by their adopting parents.

The Children Act was enacted by Malta's parliament in 2003 to ensure that the welfare of adopted children is protected. The Act can operate equally well regardless of whether the adopting parents are gay or straight.

Raymond Bezzina

Jan 19th, 12:09

A child is always influenced by the example his/her parents give by their own lives, and this influence rises sharply by the guidance the parents give to the child.

The example and orientation which gay couples would give to a child is surely towards homosexuality, which is not natural, and therefore this is not in the best interest of the child.

Luke Lanzon

Jan 19th, 12:48

You have no idea what you're talking about do you?

S. Calleja

Jan 19th, 13:04

That explains why all children of heterosexual couples are all straight then! And why men raised by lesbians become lesbians themselves!

Raymond Bezzina

Jan 19th, 13:49

@ Luke Lanzon

I believe that one only needs some rational reasoning in the right direction to agree with my above comment.

What are your comments about the subject ?

Mr Edward Caruana Galizia

Jan 19th, 13:53

Mr Bessina, sexuality is not learnt. You are what you are. No heterosexual child is going to grow up to be homosexual because of gay parents, the same way no homosexual child is going to grow up to be heterosexual because of straight parents.

Raymond Bezzina

Jan 19th, 13:59

@ S. Calleja

My comment explains in very simple words what is natural and what is unnatural for the rearing of a child in a family environment.

V. Cauchi

Jan 19th, 12:05

It is in the making of such laws that one sees the true mettle of MPs and how our parliament works. This is after all how saints are made. St Thomas More had the courage to put up with Henry VIII and was beheaded. Is anyone ready to risk his fame (life) against any party leader (king) or party ticket or line? Or are human rights and liberalism the true gods we are turning to?

Matthew Grima

Jan 19th, 11:51

One who chooses to celibate should not discuss what's natural.

Raymond Sammut

Jan 19th, 12:20

They don't choose. It comes to them naturally.

E Borg

Jan 19th, 12:25

It would be deplorable for the church to keep quiet about such matters!

Joe M Borg

Jan 19th, 12:35

A male gyneacholigist who never experienced childbirth should not discuss pregnancy problems. Some comments are better left unsaid, Matthew. Your logic is surpreising, to say the least. Grow up, for a start!

Colin Stanley

Jan 19th, 12:49

What is natural is what God said, man and woman go forth and multiply, now if it is natural to be gay, just enjoy yourself and leave the children to the males and females. We know that there are bad parents, and also a lot of children end up in homes,but thats life.not everything is rosey in this world.

S. Calleja

Jan 19th, 13:18

Colin, I tried to follow God's teachings and went forth and multiplied. Unfortunately that caused me a lot of trouble, especially when my wife caught me!

Raymond Sammut

Jan 19th, 13:34

@ Colin Stanley

You know what God said: "not everything is rosey in this world."

Matthew Grima

Jan 19th, 14:37

A gynecologist is able to identify what could be wrong with a woman's genitals as the gynecologist studied medical science. If you keep going, you'd say that a vet cannot treat a dog because he was never a dog. Or a mechanic cannot fix a car because he was never a car.

But we are talking about a man, talking about what is natural or not, when in fact, his choice of life isn't. Grow up :)

Matthew Grima

Jan 19th, 14:40

I guess it's also natural to leave children without any parents whatsoever in a house full of other children with a bunch of nuns.

Next time you go on a plane, sit there and think for a minute, how natural it is that you're flying, Colin.

Colin Stanley

Jan 19th, 18:52

@ S.Calleja. good one.

Sarah Camilleri

Jan 19th, 11:45

I'm so glad I was raised by a mother-father family - I can't imagine my dad x 2 explaining or understanding period pains, PMT, weepy, hormonal moods and other very female matters to me as a spotty teenage woman!!! We forget that cute little babies grow into less attractive and possibly quite difficult children who need support from adult role models. We should focus on children's rights first!

Wally Vella-Zarb

Jan 19th, 11:58

If that is really your problem it can be readily solved by assigning a baby girl only to a female gay couple instead of your "dad x 2". They can then explain all the situations that you mention as necessary.

Chris Gatt

Jan 19th, 12:23

Congratulations for the saddest comment so far. Are you saying that a father cannot share in the joys and tribulations of a young teenage girl. Tell that to the number of widowed fathers who have done just that in a sensitive and perfectly natural manner. . Sometimes I really wish that people would think before putting their foot in their mouth

Karl Bugeja

Jan 19th, 12:26

I am glad just as you are.

But gay couples arent going to adopt children who are in this scenario, but they will be adopting children deprived from love and attention

Richard Farrugia

Jan 19th, 11:35

We should stop this now for the worse is still to come......Divorce....gay marriage....gay child adoption....IVF....abortion ........euthanasia........productive humam or humanoid...all other trash. We need seriously 2 save MALTA TAGHNA ....ILKOL Polliticians r seeking only their interests we need to safegaurd ours especially our identity. Godless Europe Constitution is d apex of all this trouble

Eve Axiaq

Jan 19th, 12:09

You are right. Fl-EU saret moda li ghandek ghax tisthi jekk tghid li int nisrani specjalment fil-parlament Ewropew. Jien nghid li sa ghaxar snin ohra kollox jigi legalizzat f'Malta. Qeghdin tajjeb il-musulmani jridu jxerrdu u jimponu t-twemmin taghhom u ahna nkasbru t-twemmin taghna stess, sahansitra l-EU ma tirrikonoxxix li hemm Alla!

Chris Gatt

Jan 19th, 12:24

Interesting point. Gay Marriage is trash. Am i coorect in saying that you probably think the same of gay love? So that's what they call the Christian message

S. Calleja

Jan 19th, 11:34

The arguments against child adoption by gays are really sound. Here are a few of them: "You are 100 percent right!", "Agree!", "Totally agree!", "Like :-)"... I'm totally convinced.

Joe M Borg

Jan 19th, 12:23

If you have the time read ALL arguments, not the short one. Arguments like: Kids have a right to experience a mother & father figure in their early years. What they go through when they see their friends at school accompanied by a mother and father. Decing in favour of gays because a gay couple means 2 votes, while kids have none. And other arguments.

P Sciberras

Jan 19th, 11:33

I agree 100% with the Bishop.This is another hot subject that,unfortunately,both the big parties agree. They can be entitled to everything that normal families are entitled to. But Not adoption. It should be a subject to be addressed and discussed by the Bishop,and ALL I repeat ALL with goodwill should take his advice.

Joanne Micallef

Jan 19th, 11:29

There are MILLIONS of children who live in institutions worldwide and unfortunately not all will find a home with a 'traditional' family, personally I would rather see a child in a loving home than in an institution, if the childs best interest should prevail than adoptions by gay people are a must.

Karl Bugeja

Jan 19th, 12:27

Well said

Mr R.E. Saliba

Jan 19th, 13:13

So you're saying that it is in the child's best interest to be adopted by gay parents than not at all.
Pretty much like saying that it's better to eat food you're allergic to, than none at all.
Which may of course kill you....

S. Calleja

Jan 19th, 13:36

No, Joanne is probably just saying that it's better for a child not to be adopted at all rather than being adopted by people with your prejudices.

Joanne Micallef

Jan 19th, 16:56

What I meant Mr Saliba is that a child will most definately benefit from being adopted and brought up in a loving home rather than left in an institution. I can assure you no child is alergic to gay people, and therefore your comparision makes no sense at all.

paul fava

Jan 19th, 11:28

Are these the same people who buried deceased Labourites in the mizbla? For me they have no credentials whatsoever!!

Tony Borg Borg

Jan 19th, 11:32

P. Fava x'ghandu x'jaqsam ma l-artiklu ta' hawn fuq.Thallatx haga m'ohra.

Francis Saliba M.D.

Jan 19th, 11:39

There was no "mizbla" outside mendacious MLP propaganda. There was an unconsecrated section of the cemetery reserved for those who during their lifetime had freely chosen to reject the church and its ceremonies.

Alfred Falzon

Jan 19th, 11:46

@ Paul Fava

This time round d Church is right & is leading d people in morals & in their struggle against political and social corruption!
Let's not back a minority campaign pushing for privileges.
Nobody is above d law and homosexuals cannot pretend anything else beyond a "civil union!!
The MARRIAGE we know, whether Church or civil, is d ONLY ONE that serves as a PILLAR OF SOCIETY!

aaf

Eddy Privitera

Jan 19th, 11:52

Francis Saliba M.D. You call it "unconsecrated secion of the cemetry" instead of "MIZBLA" as it was known at that time ! You seem to forget that the cemetry belongs to the government, namely, ALL the Maltese people !
This also meant NOT ALLOWING the dead person to be buried IN HIS/HER OWN FAMILY GRAVE ! the PN government allowed this insult to dead labourites & their families to go on for years!

mario delicata

Jan 19th, 11:59

Stop this nonsense Paul, stick to the argument. Were not talking politics, were talking about kids and their future. People like you are more of a liabilty then an asset to the PL. Your type of politics are not what the new movement led by Joseph Muscat wants and needs. So for goodness sake, please shut up. I have nothing against gays and them getting married, but adoption of kids. NO too much.

Raymond Sammut

Jan 19th, 12:15

@ Eddy Privitera

There was nothing the PN government could do while Dun Mikiel was in charge. No point in blaming the PN government --then led by Dr Borg-Olivier-- since no-one else was boss in Malta other than Dun Mikiel at that time.

Joe M Borg

Jan 19th, 12:28

Paul. Your credentials have NOT been asked for. With arguments like yours, WHO needs your credentials? What has the MIZBLA, something relating to the past, with gay adoption, something relating to the future? If Malta decides on 'YES", Malta would be robbing children of their right to have a mother/father family. Kids grow, and when older can become attractive.....

Alfred Falzon

Jan 19th, 12:29

@ Francis Saliba MD
You're wrong!
People who died in d 1960s, Labour supporters, were buried in d so-called "il-Mizbla" (dung hill) just to spite their families!
Deny this: MLP Deputy Leader Ellul Mercer was buried in this part of d STATE cemetery even though he was found dead grasping the Crucifix!
His brother, a Sacro Cuor friar, was d one who defied d medieval-minded Church at d time!

aaf

Francis Saliba M.D.

Jan 19th, 12:46

@EddyPrivitera
Your comment does not disprove in any way my contention that unrepentant Labourites were really buried in an unconsecrated section of the cemetery reserved for those who in their lifetime had rejected the ministrations of the Church. That was not a rubbish dump (mizbla) a lie invented by the MLP. As expected, you, an LP apologist are only trying to perpetuate that lie.

Francis Saliba M.D.

Jan 19th, 12:51

@Raymond Sammut

Insolently referring to Archbishop, Sir, Michael Gonzi (as Mintoff used to call him) as a plain "Dun Mikiel" reveals your disrespectful animus and proves nothing beyond your character..

Colin Stanley

Jan 19th, 12:53

@Eddy Privitera. what's al these got to do with the subject. the point is are you for or against adoption by gays, knowing you the answer is going to be YES.

Joseph Grech Attard

Jan 19th, 13:17

The unconsecrated area was called 'mizbla' at the time. The Malta Church publicly apologised for the actions taken during those days. The MLP and persons like me who sufferred during those times acçepted heartily the applogy. So let us please not live in the past. That is over and done with. Let us learn from it and look with hope to a better in all aspects of society.

Francis Saliba M.D.

Jan 19th, 13:51

@JosephGrechAttard

No one is denying that the MLP called "mizbla" what in reality was part of the cemetery and not part of a rubbish dump. MLP supporters took the hint, perpetuated that lie and some of them are still doing it today in this blog.
The Church was magnanimous and conciliatory enough to ask forgiveness from anyone who may have been hurt. Not so the equally guilty Mintoffian MLP.

Raymond Sammut

Jan 19th, 11:24

Gay adoption is illegal in just a few countries.

Elsewhere, gay couples openly have children under their care, and enjoy formal recognition at law in Argentina, Belgium, Brazil, Canada, Denmark, Iceland, Netherlands, Norway, South Africa, Spain, Sweden, UK, and Uruguay.

Both the American Psych Assoc and the American Med Assoc support legalizing gay adoption on medical grounds.

Alfred Falzon

Jan 19th, 11:38

@ Raymond Sammut

So let's be copycats and go back to the Age of Caves when primitive humanoids used to copulate in the open regardless of sex!

Pl read "10 reasons why homosexual "marriage" is harmful and must be opposed" by accessing website:

< http://www.tfpstudentaction.org/politically-incorrect/hon >

Alfred A Falzon

Joe M Borg

Jan 19th, 11:40

Don't bring the USA into the picture, please. They are no elite example of society. Their gun laws are just ONE example of how great they are. Abortion is another.

Mr R.E. Saliba

Jan 19th, 13:14

@Raymond Sammut
Of course the USA is the right model to copy.
Let's start by wearing bulletproof jackets in schools...

Raymond Sammut

Jan 19th, 14:40

@ Joe M Borg, Mr R.E. Saliba

Nowhere did I make any reference to the USA.

The two references in the last sentence of my comment are two among the most renowned institutions worldwide in terms of scientific and medical research, ethics, and health care.

S. Calleja

Jan 19th, 11:22

I strongly believe that people who do not regard homosexuals as their equals (such as, for instance, by denying them equal rights) have sexual identity issues themselves. Now let's see the comments to this, which will only serve to prove my point.

Edward Mallia

Jan 19th, 12:30

Pardon me, but you are pre judging the comments. That bad logic.

S. Calleja

Jan 19th, 13:22

Ok I pardon you.

Alfred Falzon

Jan 19th, 17:34

@ S. Calleja

Gays have rights, human rights, not PRIVILEGES!
What they are clamouring for is an institutionalised IMPOSITION on the rest of society which rejects so-called "gay marriage" since for us MARRIAGE is between a Male and a Female and remains the PILLAR OF SOCIETY!
Otherwise they remain part and parcel of our community and woe betide those who persecute them!

Alfred A Falzon

Ms Maria Vella

Jan 19th, 11:22

It is quite disgusting to see the attitude of people commenting below, no respect or tolerance whatsoever.

Mons Scicluna had every right to comment like those in favour of gay adoption, the only difference is that he and his supporters don't call those people of opposing opinions dinosaurs, bigots etc

Mr J Tonna

Jan 19th, 11:30

I agree with you 100%.

The fulfilment of diversity is tolearance, Everyone has a right for his opinion, whoever s/he is and whatever s/he says.

Alison Bezzina

Jan 19th, 11:19

They also warned us about Divorce remember ? In the meantime in order to make sure that no gay people get a chance at parenthood they also stopped single adoptions from their orphanage in Ethiopia.....
http://www.timesofmalta.com/articles/view/20120211/blogs/children-of-god.406307

Ms Maria Vella

Jan 19th, 11:25

Alison

Divorce is against the Church's teachings, do you expect it to speak in favour? Like wise with gay unions and adoptions.

If you want respect towards your opinions show some respect to others' opinions as well

Reginald Borg

Jan 19th, 11:15

Your Excellency,
You are 100 per cent right.
May God bless you!

Hector Buttigieg

Jan 19th, 11:26

Agree!!!

Mr J Tonna

Jan 19th, 11:33

Fully agreed too.

Karl Consiglio

Jan 19th, 11:15

The bishop's views are as important as the plumber's to those of us who are not Catholic.

Joe Grech

Jan 19th, 11:29

Even to those of us Catholics!! Problem with the church is they are stuck in the past. That way losing half of the cattle!!

Francis Saliba M.D.

Jan 19th, 11:42

Correct. But for those who endorse the Republican Constitution of Malta the official religion is the Roman Catholic faith - not plumbing,

Francis Saliba M.D.

Jan 19th, 11:49

@Joe Grech

Those who disown the Church are not considered to be "cattle". Born Catholics who stray away from the Church that would be welcomed back when they so desire without any imposition by the Church.

A Tonna

Jan 19th, 11:49

For those of us who are, they provide us with guidance based on what is written in the Bible, which writings , we believe, were inspired by God himself. If only we would devote more time to reading and reflecting this precious resource! Rediscover the joy of believing in this Year of Faith.

Karl Consiglio

Jan 19th, 12:28

A Tonna,

I would rather read The Beano.

Colin Stanley

Jan 19th, 13:15

count yourself lucky that you are living in a democratic country , and you can express yourself freely about our religion.

Francis Saliba M.D.

Jan 19th, 15:14

@Karl Consigli

It is a free country and if an adult (presumably) prefers to read Beano rather than the NT bible no one will stop you. De gustibus ......

Wenzu Zammit

Jan 19th, 11:10

It seems that our local politicians are becoming like monkeys who simply want to mimic the EU LIBERALS. The Christian Democrats are no more and it seems we are surrounded by monkeys that are obnoxious and unbearable whilst the Catholic population is being silenced and ignored whilst other minority religions are being given more predominance from PN & PL.

Mr Evan Camilleri

Jan 19th, 11:25

spot on!

Paul Caruana

Jan 19th, 11:09

Prejudice aside, the key question to ask is this: does the sexual orientation of an individual affect his/her ability in parenting?

More to the point, is homosexuality associated with bad parenting, compared to the parenting abilities of heterosexuals?

S. Calleja

Jan 19th, 11:08

Considering the Church's track record with raising children, I wouldn't speak so prominently regarding this if I were them.

James Buhagiar

Jan 19th, 11:08

This is becoming absurd. Why all this hatred?

Till some years ago black people were treated as second class citizens and now everyone agrees on how bad this era was. Do we realise that we're now doing exactly the same thing with gay people?

Why do we assume that "Gay Adoption" is different from "Straight Adoption"? Besides some eccentric studies, research shows that they're not any different.

M Gatt

Jan 19th, 11:07

Don't really care about the church. It holds no power over me.

Joe M Borg

Jan 19th, 11:37

Maybe you'll change your opinion on your deathbed, when you ask for a priest! The church does NOT hold any power over me, neither, as I choose to follow her teachings. But you expect to HOLD POWQER over children, by imposing on them a gay couple. when you can give them a mother and father attention.

Karl Consiglio

Jan 19th, 12:45

Joe,

Asking for a priest on your deathbed does not prove the existence of God.

Francis Saliba M.D.

Jan 19th, 14:06

@KarlConsiglio

No it does not prove the existence of God.
It proves that the atheist who during his lifetime when death appeared to be very remote, was such a brash anti-deist, he had been only an opportunistic self-serving hypocrite all that time. There is nothing so certain to concentrate the mind as the imminence of death and meeting the Almighty in all his merciful judgement.

Charles Grixti

Jan 19th, 21:29

@Joe M Borg

What is this about asking for a priest on your death bed scenario? What would an atheist want with a priest?

Some people ask for many strange things on their deathbeds, like a favorite dish or drink, but I have never heard of them asking for priests. In fact, if one visits such people, you will notice at once that even the most religious amongst them have long stopped praying.

paul falzon

Jan 19th, 11:06

living in a traditional man-woman family. Given this ' disavantage' if i may, i would first try to have these children adopted by what society refers to a normal family first, given also the fact that the Maltese society has a long way forward to accept such practices.

Again this is a non-biased comment, away from political beliefs or some sexual orientation discrimination.

paul falzon

Jan 19th, 11:03

P 1- I sincerely think one should take this argument beyond any level of politics. For the record, i am all in for all gay measures any political party may present, be it co-habition, marraige or whatever. Now speaking of adoption, in my humble opinion i would assume that a child awaiting to be adopted is already at a disadvantage for some reason or another from other so called ' normal children'

Joseph John Zammit

Jan 19th, 10:58

Its already being done. What is all this panic?

D Fava

Jan 19th, 10:54

The only family is between a man and a woman. Any other type of family is a curse against god, and is punished by going to hell.

Joe Tanti

Jan 19th, 11:02

since when did jesus appoint you as his orator? Let god judge. Know your place, do not take his place

Joe M Borg

Jan 19th, 11:08

Joe Tanti If you had a little grasp of the Gospels, you would know that Jesus expects EVERY CHRISTIAN to be his orator! Those who find His teachings disturbing and uncomfortable resort to YOUR stupid accusations. They DON'T want to hear!

S. Calleja

Jan 19th, 11:12

Does a family between a gay and a lesbian count?

Joe Tanti

Jan 19th, 11:25

Unfortunately, the stupid accusation here is using the word ''curse'' ,''punished'' and ''hell'' when we all know it is not our place to make such accusations. 'He who is without sin, cast the first stone'.

Joe Tanti

Jan 19th, 11:30

And Joe Borg, I do have a grasp of the gospel, and in no way do I find them disturbing or uncomfortable, using your words. D Fava's comment has made me feel uncomfortable and it is very very disturbing that someone in this day and age actually still has this type of good= heaven, bad= hell mentality.
What about tolerance, respect, democracy, freedom of expression??

Joe Borg

Jan 19th, 11:33

It is people like you that are giving he wrong opinion on the Church. Christ came to spread love, not the one that we see in movies but the real love which, means forgetting your self and sacrificing for those that hate you. We should start by fixing the problems we have in our so called christian families.

Joe Tanti

Jan 19th, 11:58

Isn't it better to have two daddies or two mummies than no family at all? Do you not understand that these children will be loved and cared for? It is already better than some traditional families. Speak to children who have a mum and dad, in a house of neglect and violence and speak to children with homosexual parents in a loving home- and tell me who is happier. It might not be as bad as u think

Francis Saliba M.D.

Jan 19th, 12:25

@JoeTanti

You do not even have the elementary courtesy to type the name of the god who judges with a capital G. That says quite a lot.

Patrick Jansen

Jan 19th, 14:42

Oh my GOD, is this 2013?

Joseph Sammut

Jan 19th, 15:52

@ Patrick Jansen: yes it is, where have you been?

Joe Tanti

Jan 19th, 21:08

@ Francis- You are so funny- Great sense of humour.... I hope you were joking

C Attard

Jan 19th, 10:54

I am not a religious person, but here I totally agree with the Bishop. I am not homophobic at all. Many of my friends are gays, but still I totally disagree of having gay couples adopting a child. And to all gays writing I would like to pass on a message, that not agreeing with them on this issue doesn't mean we are against them. SHAME ON POLITICIANS WHO FOR THEIR VOTES GO AGAINST THEIR MORALITY.

Tom Calleja

Jan 19th, 11:01

Logical hmmm

S. Calleja

Jan 19th, 11:10

Well, by discriminating against them, then you are against them, aren't you?

Mr Ernest Vella

Jan 19th, 10:49

The Constitution of Malta says; "The authorities of the Roman Catholic Apostolic Church have the duty and the right to teach which principles are right and which are wrong." (Par 2,2) This is a right given by the Constitution.

Robert Farrugia

Jan 19th, 13:06

If I'm not mistaken that clause had to be repealed because of the introduction of divorce last year.

Mark Brincat

Jan 19th, 10:47

I'm not taking political suggestions from a man who believes there is a man in the sky who checks what I'm doing. SORRY

C Attard

Jan 19th, 10:58

You have all the rights to do so, but on the other hand I have the rights to listen and then Vote. It could have been anyone saying so, and the Bishop did not mention nor God nor the Bible. Having said that a friend of mine was raised by a Gay couple, and he still prefers that he could have been raised in a family made up of a mother and a father.

Joe M Borg

Jan 19th, 11:10

Maybe you'll change your ideas when you're FACED with that Man in the sky. Many an atheist asked for a priest on their dying bed. SORRY.

X Gatt

Jan 19th, 10:42

The Roman Catholic church persists in highlighting differences present in our society. Choosing amongst the population those that are to be privileged and those that are to be discriminated against.
Always a force of division; championing the 'us and them' mentality. When is this institution going to be one that is understanding and inclusive?

Dave Alan Caruana

Jan 19th, 10:57

Understanding and inclusive .. never .. but they do become more irrelevant as time goes by.

Joe M Borg

Jan 19th, 11:15

Gatt & Dave. The same, boring excuses of those who find God's teachings 'uncomfortable'. As they say, 'truth hurts', and so you end up criticising, thinking that by your comments you extinguish God's presence. As usual, the child's RIGHT to experience the mother/father figure in his early life is irrelevant for you. Gay couples = 2 votes, voicless child = 0 votes. So politicians choose gays!

Kenneth Bonnici

Jan 19th, 10:38

The problems with Catholics is that they need to impose their religion on all of us. you are free to practice your religion, but you are not free to impose it on all the country. While a gay couple is not a traditional family, it will resemble more a family than an orphanage run by monks or nuns.

M Borg

Jan 19th, 10:51

So you do not want us " Catholics " to " impose " our religion on you , but at the same time you want gays to have the right to " impose " their way of life on helpless young children !

It is not right, it is not natural and saying that it is OK because times have moved on does not change that which is not natural into something that is naural.Marriage between 2 men or 2 woman is not natural !

James galea

Jan 19th, 11:03

No one's imposing anything, my dear Kenneth. Why do you find this so difficult to understand ? The bishop is expressing his views, which you are free to take on board or not. On the other hand, when you rail against the Church carrying out it's duty to teach and when you attempt to silence it, that is imposition

Mr E Phillips

Jan 19th, 11:15

M Borg
Can’t you see the difference? By maintaining the law as it currently stands you are imposing a law which is influenced by your religion on others. By giving the right to LGBT community to adopt or marry there is no imposition on anyone, but there are possibilities.
It’s not natural? Nor is using a computer, which you seem to have no problem doing.......

Joe M Borg

Jan 19th, 11:18

Kenneth, you WANT to impose gay 'parents' on children, when the first years of life NEED the mother/father figure. Gay couples can choose where they want to go, voicless children can NOT! What motivates politicians to give rights to gays are their votes!

Tom Calleja

Jan 19th, 10:37

Love and respect is what makes for a great upbringing, not the gender of your parents.

Joe Tanti

Jan 19th, 10:48

Wise words

Joe M Borg

Jan 19th, 11:20

Tom. Can you please enlighten us to where you got this brilliant idea from? If you had a grain of psychological knowlendge, you would KNOW that for the first years of life, a child NEEDS to experience a mother/father figure.

A Tonna

Jan 19th, 12:09

Tom, I expect you mean parents love and respect their children in return for their own love and respect. If only it were that straightforward! What about all the other influences involved in an individual's formation? Unfortunately, peer pressure, society pressure, political pressure play strong roles too, and this is where the problem often lies.

Karl Consiglio

Jan 19th, 19:47

Well said.

Richard Farrugia

Jan 19th, 10:33

Mons Scicluna, thank you for your advocacy and I shall not vote for any party that has its best interest stepping in power at the expense of innocent children. Porsit. Now I beg other fellow Catholics polititians to form a party that do have catholic morals as its backbone. Catholics are still a relevant magority.

Mr Peter Vella

Jan 19th, 10:45

I agree totally. Well done Mons Scicluna you have shown that you are the kind of leader our church needs by having the courage to speak up. When there are so many traditional couples wanting to adopt it makes no sense to allow gay couples to have this right.

C Attard

Jan 19th, 10:59

Totally agree

Joe M Borg

Jan 19th, 11:21

LIKE :-)

simon ellul sullivan

Jan 19th, 10:29

a country of bigots and dinosaurs ... kieku l-injoranza tixghel kieku dal pajjiz xemx !

Alfred Falzon

Jan 19th, 11:03

So that's your answer: hurling insults at those who still regard MARRIAGE as one of the PILLARS of our society!
The term "dinosaurs" fits your ilk better as it is indicative of your desire to a return to the Age of Caves when primitive humanoids copulated in the open regardless of sex!

SHAME!

Alfred A Falzon

S. Calleja

Jan 19th, 11:16

I don't believe Simon is hurling insults against marriage. Of course, marriage is one of the pillars of our society, whether its between two men or two women, or a man and a woman, as long as they are committed in love.

Joe M Borg

Jan 19th, 11:23

simon Not a single thought for the innocent kids who YEARN to experience the mother/father figure. Probably because gay couples are good at making noisy, colourful parades. Children can NOT. Or probably because gay couples mean 2 votes, while children mean 0 vote. Nobody asked you for a self-description! Thanks.

Joseph Bajada

Jan 19th, 11:28

Mr Falcon humans are to only animal that is shy to have sex in the open...why..

S. Calleja

Jan 19th, 11:28

Joe, I'd rather have a child raised by someone who is good at making noisy, colourful parades, rather than someone who is good at making noisy, violent charades (irrespective of sex, that is).

Francis Saliba M.D.

Jan 19th, 11:53

@S Calleja
Calling Malta a "country of bigots and dinosaurs" is most definitely a deliberate insult hurled at its inhabitants, whether you believe it or not.

S. Calleja

Jan 19th, 12:20

Dr Saliba, you're right - I wouldn't have said bigots and dinosaurs, but I would have said prejudiced. Because, of course, nobody is talking from experience here (except for Mr Jo Debono who was raised in an orphanage). Noticeably regular, deconstructive argumentative pattern. First take a stand, then defend it. Sound thinking is done the other way round.

C Busuttil

Jan 19th, 10:22

Mons

jekk trid taghmlu ghal darba haga bis-sens igbru l-firem ghar-referendum, din mhux bhal ta divorzju, jien nivvota kontra din id-darba

Efrem Gatt

Jan 19th, 10:40

Nassigurak li nibqghu mistghagbin bir-rizultat li jaf johrog minn referendum.. sirna poplu individwalist li nemmnu biss fina nfusna u f'dak li jaqblilna.. dan ipoggina wisq il-boghod mit-taghlim nisrani. Ir-referendum tad-divorzju tatna stampa cara car ta' dan. Poggejna fuq quddiem l-interessi taghna, tal-partit u ta' wliedna, u warrabna l-ligi t'Alla.

B Attard

Jan 19th, 12:01

@ C Busuttil Naqbel mieghek perfettament. Jien ukoll kontra nivvota did darba. Din hja issue hot fejn jidhlu t-tfal.
@Efrem Gatt
kieku kellu jsir referendum din id-darba tistghageb int ghax jghaddi l-LE. Il-knisja ghandha titghallem tizen u tiehu stand fejn l-affarijiet ikunu seriji u jwasslu ghal abbuzzi u tbatija. mhux toqghod tinhela fuq ic-cuccati.

Efrem Gatt

Jan 19th, 12:56

@ B. Attard. Din id-darba forsi huwa kaz differenti, izda ma nghaggilx biex inkun tant cert.. ma tista' tahlef ghal hadd. Anke jekk il-partit li jemmnu fih ikun favur xi issue, ghid li dak li jkun ser jinsa kull twemmin li suppost jemmen fih u jappogga dak li jghid il-partit. Sortunatament daqsekk ahna insara konvinti.

Sam Torp

Jan 19th, 10:17

If gays can administer in the the church, operate businesses, contribute to the community, serve in government then they can adopt children and set an example to others.

Francis Saliba M.D.

Jan 19th, 11:02

@SamTorp
The way you reason is that because I can treat people for their illness then and because I can drive a car then I can also contribute to the community by building houses and repairing cars. What logic is that?

Joe Borg

Jan 19th, 10:14

I cannot understand why all this fuss, whenever the church speaks. It is an institution in Malta like any other, and like any other institution, it has it's own rules to follow, and obviously when asked about certain things they will abide to there rules, like any institution does and should do. Well done to the Bishop for having the courage to tell that which is not popular today!

Tom Calleja

Jan 19th, 10:43

Freedom of speech has its limits. It is still illegal to spread hate.

GEORGE S DARMANIN

Jan 19th, 10:58

@ Tom Calleja
Unfortunately it is not illegal to lie. Who is spreading hate? Definitely not the Church. I sense much more hate in extreme liberals who are intolerant to others' views and call us of a different opinion, dinosaurs, bigots and all sort of names. See this blog here including your untrue remarks, who is instilling hate?

Tom Calleja

Jan 19th, 11:05

How do you think young gay men and women feel when they read these comments denying them the right to enjoy a family like you can? They feel hated.

Joe M Borg

Jan 19th, 11:27

Tom. Lack of respect to children who need mother/father affection is similar to hate! If you REALLY love children, you give them what NATURE gave them, a mother and father. Those who impose anything other than what nature created, show hate to the family institution.

Joe M Borg

Jan 19th, 11:29

Tom Pt 2. How do you think kids feel when they grow up, when they discover that instead of being adopted by a mother and father, they were given to a gay couple, ROBBING them the RIGHT to have a mother/father as parents.

Alfred Falzon

Jan 19th, 10:11

This time round d Church is RIGHT not d Parties, fishing 4 votes 2 d detriment of our society in general & our CHILDREN in particular!
2 main Parties, 2 U-turns, 2 d deep disappointment of our people who still uphold their belief in MARRIAGE as d PILLAR OF SOCIETY, a marriage between a MALE & a FEMALE not copulation between primitive humanoids of d same sex as was customary in d Age of Caves!

aaf

Joe Tanti

Jan 19th, 10:42

detriment to society and children?? What detriment? Because a couple have loving family and they happen to be of the same sex? Is that a detriment to you?

Alfred Falzon

Jan 19th, 10:58

@ Joe Tanti

Same-sex partners can NEVER be considered as being "married"!
They cannot therefore adopt children and rear them in a family!
Pl read "10 reasons why homosexual "marriage" is harmful and must be opposed" by accessing website:

< http://www.tfstudentaction.org/politically-incorrect/hon >

Alfred A Falzon

Joe Tanti

Jan 19th, 11:07

''Same-sex partners can NEVER be considered as being "married"!
They cannot therefore adopt children and rear them in a family!''

Says who??

Alfred Falzon

Jan 19th, 11:11

@ Joe Tanti

The website I cited should have read as follows:

< http://www.tfpstudentaction.org/politically-incorrect/hon >

The letter "p" next to "tf" was inadvertently omitted and I apologize for any inconvenience.

aaf

Joe M Borg

Jan 19th, 11:31

Joe Tanti The detriment is that the poor child is voicless! The child NEEDS a father and mother figure, which right is taken away by this new idea.

Efrem Gatt

Jan 19th, 10:10

Everybody is free to cast his vote where he deems best. The church has every right to remind its people about their believes. Its the individual who has to decide what he stands for. No one forces you to believe, but for the individual's own sake he must come to terms with what he really believes in. Its just a matter of take it or leave it. Half measure never did anyone any good.

adam spalding

Jan 19th, 10:08

Thank you Mons for your sanity.

Reading the comments so far many are typical in their immaturity.
Attacking the church, or attacking the dysfunctional heterosexual parents is pathetic as you are looking at the extremes. If you wish to do that , you lose your argument.
Homosexuals adopting is "extreme" extremely , morally, factually wrong.
If its allowed its state authorised abuse of a child.

PM Camilleri

Jan 19th, 10:18

Well said.

Gillian Snook

Jan 19th, 10:22

Please read the comments made by Jo Debono - someone who really understands.

carmen schembri

Jan 19th, 10:00

jien nixtieq inkun naf fuq dawk il gays li huma genituri ghax kienu zewwgu biex hadd ma jghid bihom u wara li ma felhux aktar jahbu l-orjentazzjoni taghhom hargu fil berah , allura dawk se nehhulhom id dritt ta genitur.

C Busuttil

Jan 19th, 10:17

haga li qatt ma nista nemmen f'daqqa wahda tiskopri li int gay jew straight. U jekk ghamlu hekk ghamlu tlett zbalji mall-partner/mara/ragel mat-tfal u fuq kollox maghhom stess.

U din li kienu zzewwgu ta bilfors hrafa ohra illum wiehed jitlaq il-mara ghax ma ghamlitlux l-ghagin li jhobb ahseb u ara kemm jizzewgu minhabba n-nies, sibu skuza aktar kredibbli

*Joseph Brincat

Jan 19th, 09:57

WORDS OF WISDOM
We are living in an age of transformation
where everyone have the same rights
where no one is above no one
where everyone is equal
So the question is who can be above all this and beyond ???

Joseph Grech Attard

Jan 19th, 09:56

" ... family that resembles the natural family made up of a mother, father and children,” What about adoption by single persons? What is Mgr's view about that? Is there any difference between a homosexual single person and a heterosexual single person's wish to adopt.! Why does not Mgr., or anybody else, tackle also this question? .

A. MICALLEF

Jan 19th, 09:55

Who are you to fire warnings ?? The sooner you stop playing a state, the better. The people
will soon elect an new authority for the running of our country and fortunetly you or your clique
do not form part of the go9vernment so KEEP OUT and stop all this abuse.

Kleaven Maniscalco

Jan 19th, 10:25

The church has the right to voice its views as much as you do. That is democracy. If you have a problem with the church it is your problem and electing another political party will not solve the differences you have with the church and it should not lets make it clear. Because no democratic ruling party or parties will reason the way you are reasoning. That is fundamental.

M Borg

Jan 19th, 10:27

And who on earth do you think you are to speak with such " authority " or shall I say " arrogance " ?

The Bishop has every right to speak the way he did, but who gave YOU the right to speak for me ?

Even if you had to keep religion out of it. It is not " normal " for gays to marry so why should you think that it is " normal " for gays to adopt ?

A woman & man +children = family

A Tonna

Jan 19th, 12:17

A Micallef

A very tolerant, democratic and mature attitude!

Alfred Falzon

Jan 19th, 14:50

I am deeply impressed by your civility and democratic tolerance!

Which Party are you supposed to back, PN, PL, AD, etc?

It could be none, or rather a totalitarian type that gave birth to Alexander Solzhenitsyn's "The Gulag Archipelago"!

Alfred A Falzon

I Mercieca

Jan 19th, 09:55

Prosit Mons. Naqbel perfettament mieghek u nistenna li l-knisja semma lehina fuq dan.

Francis Saliba M.D.

Jan 19th, 09:52

@ all atheists and antireligious.

As long as the UN Declaration of Fundamental Human Rights grants the right to choose a religion and to practice it open, and as long as Malta's Constitution imposes the right and duty of the Catholic Church to teach, your collective rantings against the Malta Church hierarchy are only futile braying of asses destined not to reach heaven or anywhere else.

Anthony Borg

Jan 19th, 10:19

The right of freedom of religion has to be balanced with other rights like freedom of expression, the right of freedom of religion does not over weigh the right of freedom of speech. Freedom of religion does not mean that we can't criticise the Church when it is discriminating against a whole section of society. We're far from being futile look at how Secular people brought about divorce.

Francis Saliba M.D.

Jan 19th, 11:10

@Anthony Borg.

The right to choose one's religion and to practice it does not conflict with the other rights mentioned by you. Evidently that no one is forbidding you from expressing your anti-religious sentiment. You are exercising that right and others are exercising their equal right to disagree. Disagreement is not discrimination. You are absolutely mixed up.

Anthony Borg

Jan 19th, 11:31

No, I said there should be a balance of rights. You're the one who's trying to keep atheists quiet saying what we're talking about is futile and you were basing that on freedom of religion.

I was talking about the Church's discrimination towards homosexuals as it denies them the right of civil unions, calls them immoral and denies them the right to adopt and to offer a child a happy home and love

Francis Saliba M.D.

Jan 19th, 13:06

@AnthonyBorg.

I am NOT "trying to keep atheists quiet", I am trying to persuade them to use logic so that their voices wouldn't be like the "nahqa ta' hmar li me titlax is-sema".
The Church is only preaching that certain actions are immoral but clearly leaving legislation to the civil authorities. Therefore the Church is not denying homosexuals any rights that they claim to have, but haven't.

Carmelo Aquilina

Jan 19th, 14:07

dear Francis - gay adoption seems to have been accepted by all three political parties so it will happen

Francis Saliba M.D.

Jan 19th, 15:22

@CarmeloAquilina

The leaders of the two major parties that count did not say that they are going to approve of gay marriage and adoption if that is against the interest of the children for adoption. Read and digest slowly what they actually said.

MARK FENECH

Jan 19th, 09:48

so its not frowned upon for a child to be raised by nuns - ie no father figure - in an orphanage...but a same sex couple adopting is taboo!!!

Mario Muscat

Jan 19th, 10:07

Mr Fenech...when your time permits you are more than welcome to give a helping hand to all nuns, brothers and lay people who are taking care of these kids.

C Busuttil

Jan 19th, 10:20

gay qatt ma jista jkun father figure forsi mother figure imma t-tahwid jgieb it-tahwid, povra tfal jghixu fdan it-tahwid tridu ?

Francis Saliba M.D.

Jan 19th, 11:14

Orphanages are a last resort until a suitable normal family environment becomes available. Female fathers and male mothers indulging in abnormal sex practices, such as sodomy, do not provide a healthy natural environment.

Mark Mamo

Jan 19th, 11:38

@Francis Saliba: have your parents ever had sex in front of you? mine haven't and as far as i know that is the norm. Why do you assume that same-sex parents would be any different? Did you know what sexual acts your parents made when you were young? I am guessing not, so why would the child of a same-sex couple?

Francis Saliba M.D.

Jan 19th, 13:13

@MarkMamo.

Please have the decency to be impersonal if you know how.
In decent traditional families seeing sexual activity would be accidental, is known to happen frequently and wouldn't be harmful if heterosexual. The same is not true for sodomy.

MARK FENECH

Jan 23rd, 13:56

@ C Busuttil - inti bis serjeta?! nahseb qieghed tara wisq homophoboic gay movies ta! min fejn gibtha li gay ma jistax ikun father figure?! fil limitazzjoni ta mohhok ghandek l idea li nies gay huma kollha effeminati?! nies bhalek iridu jinqalghu mis seklu 14 u tigu tinghqadu maghna fis sena 2013!

Jo debono

Jan 19th, 09:43

OH GOD, I'm SO Tired of hearing the same Bull. I was placed in an orphanage abroad when I was not more than 2/3 months! I KNOW what it feels like to be an orphan, to have NO ONE TO LOVE YOU. All children want is to be loved, and gay people are Quite Capable of doing so! It's so ignorant considering that there are straight couples who are bad parents AS WELL!! I'm so sick of the religion talk!

Ms. P.M Graham

Jan 19th, 09:59

I absolutely agree Jo it's been every single day and it is now tedious. Gay couples WILL adopt and no one will ever stop them, not Malta, not the Church, and they will (and DO), make JUST as good a job of raising, secure, happy, children as anyone else.

Tania Farrugia

Jan 19th, 10:10

Jo I am so pleased to finally read a comment from someone who REALLY knows what he/she is talking about....this is the sentiment of every child around the world, without even knowing it...to be LOVED and taken care of, which IS in the best interest of the child....and if that love is given by a single parent, straight parents or gay parents IT DOES NOT MAKE A DIFFERENCE TO THAT CHILD.

Alfred Falzon

Jan 19th, 10:17

@ P M Graham

It's not what you DICTATE, but what the great majority of the Maltese uphold: NO TO GAY MARRIAGE with ADOPTION!
It is simply an affront to their belief in real MARRIAGE as an Institution and as ONE OF THE PILLARS OF SOCIETY!
Yes to human rights, NO to PRIVILEGES!
NO to a return to the AGE OF CAVES!

aaf

Ms. P.M Graham

Jan 19th, 11:06

@Alfred Falzon

I am not dictating but seriously, do you have any clue how many gay families live perfectly happily in Malta?

and how Mr Falzon do you plan on stopping gay couples adopting children? You can't. So yes fine have your opinion but for goodness sakes at the end of the day that's all it is and all it ever will be.

Alfred Falzon

Jan 19th, 17:44

@ P M Graham

"how do you plan on stopping gay couples adopting children.."

Well, by now you should know if you happen to live in Malta that legislation in favour of so-called "gay marriage" does not exist, & to my knowledge d great majority of Maltese r not that gullible as to fall for the trash that is being dished out in favour of a naturally sterile union!

Let alone accept adoption!

aaf

Joe Tanti

Jan 19th, 09:41

What is a normal family anyway? Times have changed. If two men/ women love each other, who are you to stop them from having a family? Live and let live. I will not be affected by this, and neither will you. These people the right to a family. The children will undoubtedly be loved and cared for and given the best life possible. There should be a barrier between the church and politics anyway.

Francis Saliba M.D.

Jan 19th, 10:00

On scientific medical grounds (apart from moral ones) a normal family consists of a male parent marrying a female so as to procreate and ensure the survival of the species. Everything else should be in support of that natural brick in the structure of the human race.

Joe Tanti

Jan 19th, 10:39

Obviously, we are not talking about science, that is a whole other argument in itself. Might i remind you that modern families also exist in this modern society that we live in, which includes single parents and gay couples. Being higher order animals, our main priority is not to procreate to ensure survival of the species.. well i speak about myself, don't know if procreation is your priority

Joe Tanti

Jan 19th, 10:46

and speaking of moral, is it moral for you to take away the right of these people to a family?

Francis Saliba M.D.

Jan 19th, 11:30

@Joe Tanti

No one could claim to be some "higher" order of animal because one suppresses the natural and scientific purpose of having two different sexes complementing each other to ensure the survival of the race. If that does not apply in your case please elucidate what is the purpose of having different genital organs in men and women producing sperm and ova.

Joe M Borg

Jan 19th, 11:34

Joe Tanti. If times change for the worse, it's no good. 'Who are you' to impose on a child to be reared by a gay couple, when you can offer him a mother/father couple?

S. Calleja

Jan 19th, 11:38

Dr Saliba, you know well enough that if we want to talk nature, then we can't possibly even start talking about marriage. As you well know, male primates instinctively procreate with several females, so the family as we know it today is already as unnatural as it gets.

Francis Saliba M.D.

Jan 19th, 13:19

@SCalleja

I am talking about Homo sapiens who possesses a higher intelligence than other primates and who is supposed to use it instead of debasing himself to the lower level of monkeys.

S. Calleja

Jan 19th, 13:25

Dr Saliba, then you are contradicting your same arguments above.

Francis Saliba M.D.

Jan 19th, 14:18

@SCalleja, today at 13:25

?

David Polidano

Jan 19th, 09:24

Grazzi Mons. Scicluna. Sfortunatament hafna mill-politici jippruvaw jintghogbu ma' kulhadd.

Michael McCharty

Jan 19th, 09:21

Dear Mons. before passing any judgement and start fireing warnings, please dig well in the church interior affairs and do your utmost in cleaning it from any pervs hidden within, i would rather have a child being brought up and loved by a gay couple, then be molested in an orphanage by anyvsick perv.

Eve Axiaq

Jan 19th, 09:45

Dear Michael, please note that the subject is giving children to gay couples. I don't care if a wise man or a fool says that 1 + 1 makes 2 as long as it is true. Regardless of the shortcomings of the church, they are right on this one. For all I care this could have been said by the worst of pervs, I would still say he's right. I hope you and liberals and church-haters never get your way in Malta

Francis Saliba M.D.

Jan 19th, 10:05

Bishop Charles Scicluna has earned a merited good reputation in tackling the harm caused to society and to the Church by those within its ranks but who did not follow its rules. He did not wait for your advice to carry out his mission.

Angie Conti

Jan 19th, 14:46

Michael Cutajar has to be absolutely right! How can you trust the church to make the right decision regarding children when historically they have only proved otherwise!!! Have we been so conditioned that we cannot even see this??

Angie Conti

Jan 19th, 14:47

Apologies Michael McCharty - the name came out wrong!!! :-)

Riccardo Flask

Jan 19th, 09:21

... kids would end up as a sort of consumable. Just get sperm donors, surrogate mothers, and put children up for sale. Maybe I exaggerated a bit, but we speak of rights, everyone wants rights at all costs, everyone seems to want his/her own world the way s/he feels it right. Different needs, ambitions, goals... but we are moving away from our roots, the ones which keeps us steady.

Mr C Camilleri

Jan 19th, 09:20

Naqbel perfettamanet ma l-isqof Scicluna. Hija tal-misthija li biex nigbru l-voti nwieghdu affarijiet mhux naturali . Jekk il-gays iridu jizzewwgu bic-civil mhux problema u ma jdejjqunix assolutament. Imma li jridu jaddottaw hija storja ferm differenti u li ma tghogobni xejn.

Dan huwa egoismu kbir. Dak kollu li jitghallmu l-iskola fuq sess u biologija se jkun kollu kontra dak li jaraw id-dar.

Julian Caruana

Jan 19th, 09:20

Coming from the institution which claims that new born babies are born with original sin and which scares children about an afterlife of eternal hell fire. Not to mention how the current leader of this institution covered up so many child abuse cases to save the church's image rather than offer a child therapy. I think the Church as a whole should lower it's head in shame when talking about a chil

Julian Caruana

Jan 19th, 09:35

*child's best interest.

Anthony Borg

Jan 19th, 09:55

Couldn't have said it better myself.

Angie Conti

Jan 19th, 09:18

'the best interests of the child should be the driving factor'..is there a preconceived guarantee that the child adopted by male/female parents is destined for a good, happy secure life...or something like that? If there is such a guarantee, perhaps the church would be willing to share it with us? Because that's not quite what one sees in the the real world society where I live!!

Riccardo Flask

Jan 19th, 09:17

I have to add also that why do we blame the Church? The Church does a lot of good, can do more and yes did some bad things as well. If we support the Church we should support it's ideals. I can believe that a gay couple can be more able to raise children, than a heterosexual couple, but is this right? Perhaps I am close minded... but then if we keep following this line of thought...

S Fenech

Jan 19th, 09:16

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=y4CBLVNG2Q4 ghal dawk li jsibuha difficli jihmu xinu lahjar jekk hux bhal dan it tifel jew adopted minn koppja gay.

Joseph Grech Attard

Jan 19th, 10:12

A must-watch. Humans are humans wherever they come from. If a believer, this proves how God manifests Himself. And He surely manifests Himself in homosexual couples as much as in htereosexual ones. If not a believer, then let's talk of nature, which manifests itself as much in homos as in heteros. It´is just a matter of one being either understanding or judgemental!

Joseph Borg

Jan 19th, 09:14

Once in a while I perfectly agree with the church! This is ABSOLUTELY one of those times. Gay people have no right to impose upon children for adoption the family culture that being gay is normal. Your deserve every other right but fact remains that normal is man & woman & it's that which is best for children. Single parents is a circumstantial issue not a right or outright choice.

Riccardo Flask

Jan 19th, 09:13

'The best interest' is often a phrase which like many others often abused. Who knows what is 'best'?! Experience and history should be good indicators, but it does not mean that they are a de facto. Children are not able to express what is best for them, and they are at the mercy of us adults, whom based on our own experience can in a way tell. Bishop Scicluna is right to warn us about this.

Francis Saliba M.D.

Jan 19th, 09:12

@Patrick Jansen

Your gratuitous "warning" is absolutely worthless as long as such an august body as the United Nations in their Declaration of Fundamental Human Rights fells the need to insist on the right to choose one's religion and to practice it openly.

joseph green

Jan 19th, 09:10

Grazzi talli tfakarna u issa nikkunsidraw lil min ghadna nivvutaw , ghax l ewwel ghalina l insara jigi il principju religjon taghna,ghalhekk nitlob li zewg partiti il kbar ikunu cari fuq din l issue. L Alternativa hija cara fuq din l issue taqbel jew ma taqbilx maghhom imma ghalinqas huma cari.

Luca Barbara

Jan 19th, 09:09

Naqbel li koppja gay ma trabbix tfal. Imma naqbilx li tfal jitrabbew f' istitut tal knisja minn irgiel biss(patrijiet) jew nisa biss (sorijiet) bir rispett kollhu ghax xol li jaghmlu tihdunix hazin.

S Fenech

Jan 19th, 09:34

Vera bravu u tifhem!! Saqsi lil dat tifel ara x jghidlek li lahjar? http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=y4CBLVNG2Q4

Eddy Privitera

Jan 19th, 09:07

What about children who are "adopted" by a number of nuns ? What would they say if asked about the name of their mother ?

Alfred Falzon

Jan 19th, 09:42

@ Ed Privitera

D days of d so-called Christian Workers' Party (d 1960s), a pseudo-Catholic political faction meant to topple the Malta Labour Party, r over!
D Church does no longer meddle in politics & is TODAY leading the Maltese people in morals & in their struggle against corruption!

Political Parties are becoming today d laughing stock of d Nation & r losing their credibility!

aaf

Eddy Privitera

Jan 19th, 11:53

Alfred Falzon: You have not answered my question !

Alfred Falzon

Jan 19th, 12:42

@ Eddy Privitera

The exception does not make the rule and you should have realised by now that the real Labour Party WOULD NEVER, I repeat, NEVER betray our CHILDREN by abandoning them to gay partners who are turning MARRIAGE to ridicule by pretending to be more equal than others!

I am NOT a Labour Party yesman and will NEVER be!

I loathe CASUISTRY!

Alfred A Falzon

Francis Saliba M.D.

Jan 19th, 13:28

@EddyPrivitera

Nuns in charge of orphanages do not apply to adopt orphans or neglected children. The provide an essential social service by accepting them and taking care of them until a more traditional family environment is found for them. What they say, or don't say about their parentage would not be known but in any case it is totally irrelevant in a civil society.

Steven Brockwell

Jan 19th, 09:02

it seems MP are doing what ever they can to win votes at all cost. i have nothing against gay couples in fact a friend of mine is gay no problem.
only we must look at the interest of the child, when i was young my ears kind of stuck out, it was lets all pick on the big ear guy . what will happen in school, once a child is adopted by a gay couple, what will the other children say to him.

Peter Galea

Jan 19th, 08:57

Naqbel perfettament ma l-isqof Charles Scicluna. L-ahjar interess tat tfal jista qatt ikun trobbijja ta zewg persuni ta li stess sess??? Mur ara dawn il povri tfal imorru li skola, jaraw lit-tfal l-ohra go familja bil missier, l-omm u ahwa xi jhossu. Jistaqsuhom x'jisimha il mama tieghek. "jien ma ghandix mama, zewg papajiet" jew vici versa. U x'kulljom ser ikollhom?
Peter Galea
Ikli

Clayton Borg

Jan 19th, 09:09

Allura xi tghid ghal dawk il-povri tfal li qed jigu mrobbijja min genitur 1 ? Dawk m'humiex skond il-mudell 'ideali' lanqas ....

Noel Cutajar

Jan 19th, 09:12

Ahseb u ara ma dak li qieghed tghid inti...meta tfal imorru m'ommom u jigi il-habib tal-mama ghalihom...pero ma ninsewx il-faccolizmu tal-Knisja. Jekk huwa l-ahjar interess tat-tfal mela missa tghid mea culpa ghal dak li gara fl-istituzzjonijiet taghha fejn saru dawk l-abbuzi fuq it-tfal. Issa fethet halqa l-knisja ghax jidher li se jitla l-PL.

Carmel Dimech

Jan 19th, 09:28

Povri dawk it tfal li gew abbuzati mil qassisin jew inkella dawk li qed jigu abbuzati minn missierhom jew ommom. Li kieku jkollok tifel jew tifla gay, tara jekk tibqax titkellem hekk. Gesu hadd ma qatt ikkundanna lil omosesswali fittex fil Bibbja u ara jekk isibiliex.

S. Calleja

Jan 19th, 11:07

In developed countries this is a non-issue, since children are taught from a young age that families can include aunts, uncles, grandparents and same-sex partners. Nobody therefore is surprised if one's parents are both male or female. I live in Australia, and there are ongoing campaigns to educate children regarding this. But of course, Malta as always is very late in catching up.

Ruth Farrugia

Feb 15th, 19:14

How fickle of you Mr. Galea. Is that what matters the surname and appearences? Povri tfal jmorru l-iskola... I honestly hope that you are not preaching this to your own children if you have the privilege to have any. You belong somewhere in the 15th century, shame you cannot go back there, I am sure the Spanish Inquisition would have welcomed you with open arms.

Robert R. Mifsud

Jan 19th, 08:57

Prosit u grazzi Bishop Charles,open our eyes because,with all due respect to the blind,we may not be blind physically but many of us are spirtually blind.I might be blind myself after all too.God bless you Bishop Charles.

Mario Borg

Jan 19th, 08:55

After all the child abuse cases the church still has the cheek to interfere in people's lives. I long the day when on this island the church will be as irrelevant as in any another country...

Pierre John Agius

Jan 19th, 09:17

Idiotic remarks - the Church did nothing of the sort. It was individuals like you and me. Utterly bullocks ...

Francis Saliba M.D.

Jan 19th, 09:23

@MarioBorg

The official attitude of the Church to child abuse is one of clear condemnation just as much as child adoption by gays. It is stupid to judge the Church by those who break its rules and not by the majority that observe them. Bishop Charles Scicluna's record is an unchallengeable proof of the Church's official attitude.

twanny borg

Jan 19th, 09:29

Tfal ghandhom jitpoggew ma' familji sewwa ragel u mara b'ghajnuna diretta mill-gvern.

Mr Joseph Carmel Chetcuti

Jan 19th, 08:54

Since 1975, the Family Court of Australia has not regaded a person's homosexuality as a disentitling factor in the custody and access of children. Come on, bishop! Stop keeping Malta behind the rest of the world. Let the courts decided who and what is in the child's best interests. Stop meddling! The Catholic Church is the last institution entitled to open its mouth.

Edward Mallia

Jan 19th, 09:46

Unfortunately the rays from that beacon of enlightenment --The Family Court of Australia -- have not arrived here yet. We must look to closer sources, regrettably not in the top places of the current 'hit parade', at least for the time being.

Mark Mamo

Jan 19th, 08:47

Since when is a supposedly celibate man who wears a frock for a living, who has never been a father or a husband, an expert on what is and what isn't a family? By the church's own rules, gay people are not part of their community, so how dare he impose his morality on others who are not part of his group of self-declared morally superior people!

Eve Axiaq

Jan 19th, 09:56

That 'man who wears a frock' has at least 60% following in this country, some of which are homosexuals (but not gay) and doubtlessly some of which are adopted children and some of which are indeed experts in family matters. I don't see many people that truly matter contradicting him.

Joe Tanti

Jan 19th, 10:44

How gullible- open your eyes Eve

Matthew Grima

Jan 19th, 14:59

Eve, progress in humanity has always come from the minority that was ridiculed.

Flying, driving, computers, you name it. If we all moved with the flock, we'd be no better than sheep.

Enjoy your grass.

Edward Mallia

Jan 19th, 08:40

I suggest that all those commenting on this utterance declare what they originally said at the news of Mgr. Scicluna's appointment. Not an idle request, but motivated by memory of comments on Mgr. Cremona's appointment and the brevity of that "honeymoon". With Mgr. Grech there was no honeymoon at all, of course.

Mr Joseph Carmel Chetcuti

Jan 19th, 08:38

I imagine the best interests of the child are best served in Chuyrch institutions! What a joke. Speak of a culture of corruption!

V. Cauchi

Jan 19th, 08:34

Tackling the issue of gay adoptions is like putting the cart before the horse. Any person can now adopt a child and, insofar as not publicly known, the court does not delve into the adopter's orientations/ home mates as no defensor vinculi/ public lawyer takes part in the proceedings. The condemnation should be on formalizing homosexual unions which go against God's law and the social order.

Robert Callus

Jan 19th, 08:33

I can't see how living in an orphanage with no individual attention and parental love could be in the best interest of the child.

Ms. P.M Graham

Jan 19th, 08:31

Oh my goodness!!!! Change the record!!! and if you have to harp on about this, at least go out there and get some experience of what you talk of, because my guess is that very few have any first hand experience of what they talk of on this subject.

Francis Saliba M.D.

Jan 19th, 08:29

Bishop Charles Scicluna is not saying anything with which the main party leaders do not agree, Their carefully worded statements emphasize the it is the child’s interests that are paramount not the desires of a minority of “gay pride” provocative enthusiasts. Other less belligerent homosexuals have actually joined the French rally opposing gay marriage and adoptions.

S Fenech

Jan 19th, 09:32

Frans li jkollok it tfal gay kellimni. Probabbilment toqghod tinghi biex tkun nannu! Kieku kellhom ghazla l gays zgur jghazlu li jkunu straight ghax hemm wisq nuqqas ta ugwaljanza.

Francis Saliba M.D.

Jan 19th, 10:23

@ S Fenech

Kieku kelli tfal "gay" kont nghallimhom kif jaddattaw ruhom ghall-izvantagg taghom minghajr ma jipprattikaw sodomija u kif setghu jaghmluni nannu jekk din tkun xewqithom.

Carmel Dimech

Jan 19th, 08:20

Kif trid dejjem tiddeffes il knisja ahjar tiehu hsieb dawk il qassisin li jabbuzaw mit tfal, Dawk it tfal li jitrabbew f listituti, mhux minn soru jew qassis jitrabbew, mhux mit tnejn f daqqa zgur ? Barra minn hekk mhux ahjar tifel mrobbi minn gays milli ma jkollux x jilbes u jiekol bhal tfal ohra, hawn tant faqar madwar id dinja. Dik hija l hniena u karita li tghajjat biha l knisja.

Mr Pierre Portelli

Jan 19th, 08:18

Finally the Catholic Church makes its voice heard...

Ben Agius

Jan 19th, 08:07

Again, Catholic orthodoxy, draws the conclusion it wants. Who is to say that a particular child is not better off with a a gay couple? We all know children, many of them, that are worse off with a "natural" couple!! Decisions should be made in the best interest of the child. No more no less.

twanny borg

Jan 19th, 08:00

ma naqbilx li tfal jigu addottati minn zewgt irgiel gays. lanqas naqbel li dawn jipoggew f-istituti izda ma' familji sewwa ragel u mara anki jekk diga' jkollom tfal. il-gvernijiet ghandhom jghinu anki finanzjarment biex jintlahaq dan il-ghan. cert li l-maggoranza tal-gays ukoll jaqblu ma' dan.

Jim Harvey

Jan 19th, 07:58

He is entitled to his viewpoint, as is this child who was raised by two women. Perhaps we should make up our minds based on sound empirical research, not outmoded doctrine...?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FSQQK2Vuf9Q

Robert Cassar

Jan 19th, 07:55

This is a good reason for why a tunnel is needed ...

S. Calleja

Jan 19th, 14:38

Why? So as to crawl inside it and come out when this country comes out of the Dark Ages?

Mr Richard Bonello

Jan 19th, 07:54

"The best interest of the child is supreme"... All are in agreement . With all due respect to gay people is anyone in a position to foretell what the best interest of the child would be if adopted by a gay couple? Gay people should get on with their life the way they like but to take on the responsibility of deciding a child's future is asking too much.. given the circumstances.

Noel Cuschieri

Jan 19th, 11:22

The status of gay people is like smoking: it is ok for you to carry on smoking if you wish so, but please, refrain from encouraging others to copy you!! I may have my own bad habits/weaknesses, but my responsibility towards society is to control them (the bad attributes) and give as good an example as possible.

Stefan Limongello

Jan 19th, 07:52

This Bishop is a hard nut to crack - and well known and appreciated abroad:

http://pro-tridentina-malta.blogspot.com/2013/01/inside-vaticans-top-ten-for-2012.html

If I were Maltese, I'd be proud of him, at least you know where you stand with him, unlike other church primadonnas.

D. Caruana

Jan 19th, 07:50

Oh please! What's wrong with gays? In an orphanage managed by nuns it's the same .. just all women. I don't see why all the fuss. There are some problematic family structures which are worse than gays. At least they are straight in their priorities unlike some normal family structures which have their priorities anyway but to raise kids in a decent manner! I think gays make great parents.

Noel Cuschieri

Jan 19th, 11:07

The fact that they are gays DOES NOT in itself mean that "they make great parents" as you said it. Great parents are the ones who can give children the BEST EXAMPLE ( best model ) and good foundations / values for their future!!!

Matthew Grima

Jan 19th, 14:56

You're right Noel, and being gay or straight has no bearing on how good you are.

Ramona Frendo

Jan 19th, 07:40

By the same token, it is not in the best interests of the child to be brought up by a cohort of spinsters or bachelors in religious institutional homes, especially when past experience has taught us that these are hotbeds for abuse. Nor is it in the interests of society to have priests taking chastity vows when nature (or God in Catholic theology) meant a man to find a wife & start a family.

George Calleja

Jan 19th, 09:55

Why don't you thank the Lord that we have religious institutions that take good care of abandoned children who are dished in these institutions. Had it not been for them , these innocent children would be running in the streets without any one to take care of them.

Ramona Frendo

Jan 19th, 10:15

I believe society should provide a home for children who are not taken care of by their families. It is unfortunate that this is done by church institutions. Nothing to thank the Lord about there. If anything, it is just a wakeup call for our Government to provide the service itself. And allowing gay couples to adopt children would ensure that these children don't roam the streets, as you put it.

Noel Cuschieri

Jan 19th, 10:59

@ Ramona Frendo
.... and until society provides this service properly, Religious people (ok there may be the not so good ones, as there may be bad gay or heterosexual couples!) are providing this precious service. So, good comment Mr Calleja; the interest of these children comes first and the proper orientation of the adopting parents (who are also able to give a good example) comes second.

A. Farrugia

Jan 19th, 13:56

Ramona, while I agree with you that society should provide these children with a home, I wish to point out that the nuns & priests caring for these kids are none other than our own cousins/brothers/sisters who chose to dedicate their lives to God and Neighbour rather than start a family for themselves. They are also part of our society and they do most of what they do for free. Thank God for them!

Andrew Cauchi

Jan 19th, 07:34

Just cut off the church and let it drift to sea.

T Mizzi

Jan 19th, 09:24

The church has survived over 2,000 years...

twanny borg

Jan 19th, 09:25

.... u nerqu....

Charles Grixti

Jan 19th, 07:24

So it is better to let children live in orphanages then? How does that make any sense? Even bishops like himself ought to adopt a couple of children, that is what real charity is about.

Mr R.E. Saliba

Jan 19th, 13:17

Ask orphaned children Charles, don't suppose.

Patrick Jansen

Jan 19th, 07:00

I would like to warn people against religion in general, which causes a lot of hatred, intolerence and which puts their laws onto every one in society. Also onto people who don't believe or are not church goers and who don't agree with them.

Gerry Cowie

Jan 19th, 10:20

Now look at what you have written and change the words around so that the boot is on the other foot!
Which laws in particular are you unhappy about? Why are they "bad" just because they came from religious principles?
Perhaps we should be warned about secularism, atheism and humanism! I am sure people are shaking at your warning!

Joe Borg

Jan 19th, 10:24

The Church does not 'put' its law on any one, it has it rules and you are free to not follow if you like. Christ left us
All free to do what ever we like. You don't agree with the Church you have all the right. The Bishop did not force anything on anyone! He is simply saying what the church thinks is best.

Jonathan Camilleri

Jan 19th, 12:48

I agree with Joe Borg, you can choose not to follow the rules or form part of the club if you don't like its rules. However I understand that the Bible has never quoted discrimination against gay persons at least as far as I can remember. It is bishops who have misinterpreted policies in this way, for some reason.

Please choose the reason of your report below:

Advert

In Discussion

Our Partners

Advert

Sign in

Use your timesofmalta.com account to login:

Bishop warns against adoptions by gay couples

Please choose the reason of your report below:

Similar Stories

Jan 19th, 19:29
Bishop’s warning against adoptions by gay couples

Consensus over gay adoption welcomed

PN: We would change the law to allow gay...

‘Gay couples will struggle to adopt...

Muscat not against adoptions by gay couples

Gay adoption

Popular Stories

Old buses, drivers to return

Former Judge Ray Pace found dead

Updated: Minister apologises for...

Three new Nationalist MPs elected –...

Where’s Everybody staff is given notice

Updated - Director of Prisons submits...

Update 4 - Eddie Fenech Adami stable...

Update 3 - Woman trapped as car crashes...

Revealed...the face of a Maltese woman...

In Discussion

Old buses, drivers to return

Updated: Minister apologises for...

Updated - Director of Prisons submits...

Enemalta seeking minimum five year gas...

Protected birds shot and trapped as...

Mario de Marco, Zammit Dimech concede,...

PN postpones salaries as financial...

Updated - PM's offer to Opposition MPs...

No appeals board for first part of power...

Our Partners

Email article

Times of Malta Premium

Sign in

Use your timesofmalta.com account to login:

Bishop warns against adoptions by gay couples

Please choose the reason of your report below:

Jan 19th, 19:29 Bishop’s warning against adoptions by gay couples

Popular Stories

In Discussion

Email article

Times of Malta Premium

Jan 19th, 19:29
Bishop’s warning against adoptions by gay couples