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Saturday, November 10, 2012, 12:15

Borg 'facing coordinated attack for being Catholic'

The Brussels-based European Dignity Watch, has hit out at what it sees as a coordinated campaign opposing the nomination of Tonio Borg to the European Commission.

Dr Borg is due to be questioned by MEPs on Tuesday.

In a statement, the NGO said Dr  Borg is an ideal nominee in view of his qualifications and experience.

"But for weeks, a coalition of special interest groups and NGOs have been mounting an aggressive negative campaign against Dr Borg. 

"In articles, blog-posts and tweets, his critics— first and foremost the European Humanist Federation, the International Planned Parenthood Federation, and the International Lesbian and Gay Association (ILGA)—have focused their attacks on Dr. Borg’s Christian faith and his personal views on issues like abortion, same-sex ‘marriage’ and divorce.

"None of these fall under EU competence or have anything to do with the portfolio Dr. Borg would inherit if confirmed. And yet, his opponents, disrespectful of the principle of subsidiarity enshrined in the EU treaties, claim that these are not ‘European values’. They even go as far as to assert that he has ‘extremist values’.

"In other words, according to these vocal lobby groups, simply holding Christian beliefs on social issues is a sign of extremism" the NGO said.

"This would have certainly surprised the ‘founding fathers’ of European integration, many of whom were devout Christians who based the European project on Christian principles such as solidarity, subsidiarity and human dignity.

"The vast majority of European citizens today are Christians. To portray Christianity as ‘extremism’ is hateful and intolerant propaganda, much of it disseminated by various NGOs who hold themselves rather extreme views of a minority of radical secularists, abortion and LGBT advocates. But the message of their sabre-rattling in the lead-up to the hearing is clear: European values are not Christian values—and Christian values are incompatible with European values.

"There is a fundamental arrogance in the assertion made by Dr. Borg’s opponents that only views closely aligned with their own can be considered ‘truly European’—that their secularist, pro-abortion, pro-gay marriage and anti-Christian agenda is ‘more European’ than mainstream views. This campaign is not about having a public debate on European values, it is about denying a qualified person to hold a high-ranking office in the EU because he is a Christian."

Yesterday, a Swedish Liberal MEP, Cecilia Wikström, urged the Liberal group to vote against Dr Borg, describing him as a political dinosaur for his objections to abortion and divorce and the treatment of migrants.

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Robert Agius

Nov 13th 2012, 10:21

Nobody should flaunt anything, people of different opinions should be allowed to follow what they believe is right if it doesn't trample over other people lives (note: not beliefs and self-righteous morals). If you want to point fingers to murderers you only need to look and international politics and what is done in the name of keeping our status quo and western hegemony.

Robert Agius

Nov 13th 2012, 10:27

Ironically, Overpopulation and economic 'needs' in a planet of finite resources kills more people than abortion ever will.

Andy Farrugia

Nov 11th 2012, 20:29

History is littered with examples of mass popular support for demented, criminal actions (Hitler, Stalin, Gaddafi etc.); you seem to favour the tyrannical imposition of majority decisions a la naghag ta Bendu style.

Robert Agius

Nov 11th 2012, 21:04

Democracy is dangerous thing isn't it Andy. Better the tyrant you fancy, aye?

Charles Grixti

Nov 11th 2012, 16:49

Do not rest because the term NIHILIST implies that I do not care about anything. In fact I care more about the earth in wanting to allow enough room for other animals and forests and to curb our insatiable greed to take over and bury this planet with our garbage and toxic wastes. Look at Malta and what it has become - an unlivable place packed with people and cars. The Catholic meme gone amok.

Andy Farrugia

Nov 11th 2012, 11:06

Your dubious and spiteful tendency to use RCism (for Roman Catholicism) just to dupe people into making a connection between belief and the aberrant, appalling notion of RaCism is pitiful, brainless and ludicrous. Stop spinning!

teresa rees

Dec 16th 2012, 22:42

Iam a maltese citizen living in uk for health reasons,but have seen NOsuspicion against RC whatsoever.get your facts right joe xuereb.Malta has as much right to be in the EU as anyone else T.Rees.

Andy Farrugia

Nov 11th 2012, 11:16

Son? How condescending is that? Are do you actually belief that you are in a position to play the role of a father guiding his "errant" offspring about Truth and prejudice? Hahaha! As if, Xuereb, old boy!

Andy Farrugia

Nov 11th 2012, 11:07

And you do, understand the difference, being a fundamentalist secularist, nihilist etc, yourself?

Robert Agius

Nov 11th 2012, 12:06

Yes, you sir? You find them on both sides. Of course, many are shocked that there can be such kind of fundamentalism. Of course, they fail to see that this is what you get when you let one's self-righteousness reign over other despite their obvious difference in beliefs and opinions. Having said this, forcing others to do as you believe is wrong from whichever side it may come from.

Andy Farrugia

Nov 11th 2012, 12:39

@ Robert Agius

The COERCION is only coming from Humanists, Nihilists, Liberals, Greens, ILGA, IPPF, and assorted anti-social forces. Stop being silly!

Robert Agius

Nov 11th 2012, 14:32

Wow!! Putting nihilists on a par with humanists exposes your agenda I'm afraid.

Mary Tanti

Nov 11th 2012, 13:18

You can express your opinion as a citizen, but as a representative its a different matter. If you beleive in X but the majority of people you represent want Y then you are dutybound to enact Y. So if this candidate has a history of not respecting his constituency & favouring his own opinion over that of the voters, then he probably is not fit for purpose. The issue is representation not religion.

charles caruana

Nov 11th 2012, 15:02

So 'personal and vindictive campaigns among Catholics in the past justify personal and vindictive attacks against all Catholics in the present is your clear implication. You a laywer who should serve the rule of law, and a vociferous paladin of the parlament tal- poplu, are suggesting a return to the lex talionis are you, DR EMMANUEL BEZZINA,MA,MAG.JUR.[EU Law],LL.D.,? Very lawyerly of you!

John Zammit Ph.D.

Nov 11th 2012, 15:54

Well said Emmy. www.john-zammit.eu

Andy Farrugia

Nov 11th 2012, 10:35

The EU has NO competence on BINDING legislation concerning abortion, same-sex marriage , euthanasia and divorce; that competence firmly remains within the democratic choices ( something totally unfamiliar to Humanists, ILGA, FPPA etc) of individual member countries. That Swedish lady needs to go on a crash course in Democracy and Tolerance; and you could do worse than join one yourself.

charles caruana

Nov 11th 2012, 10:51

Dear Mrs Bernhus with undoubted Christian values, you obviously believe that Christ has no objection to abortion, euthanasia, divorrce, same-sex marriages - all of which Dr Borg happens to oppose, and therefore he is not as Christian as you and therefore has not place in 'that kind of position in EU. Impeccable logic. Rest assured , Malta can do without your love, but not without that of Christ.

Robert Agius

Nov 11th 2012, 12:30

@ Andy Farrugia, If you are looking people who need a crash course in Democracy I am sure you will find many both in Malta and within the EU....why limit yourself to a few you seem to have an axe to grind with?

Andy Farrugia

Nov 11th 2012, 13:49

@ Robert Agius

Axes to grind? As a matter of course, cultural heritage and spiritual conviction we do not carry axes, much less grind them. We leave that to the Norse folk and assorted nihilists and humanists.

Charles Grixti

Nov 11th 2012, 17:14

I agree. One cannot have persons in positions of power to write the laws of nations if there is a chance that their own personal beliefs will influence the way they would vote - in other words would be impossible for them to be objective and areconstraint by dogmas some of which contradict human rights, such as those that hold to a strict interpretation of the main two dominant religions.

charles caruana

Nov 12th 2012, 07:54

Mr Grixti, why should the beliefs of a Catholic be more 'personal' than those of a secularist? A secularist like you does not have a personal world view, morality and code of conduct that influences the way you vote,I suppose? Liberal secularism is as much an ideology as any other, with its own rules, judgments and untouchable 'dogmas' - in its extreme forms as totalitarian as they come.

Andy Farrugia

Nov 11th 2012, 10:36

"Gay marriage is just a legal right." No it is NOT EVEN that; it is a legal right in ONLY very few countries. Don't spin.

Francis Saliba M.D.

Nov 11th 2012, 11:01

Gay "marriage" is a legal right ONLY in countries that have legalised it. It is NOT one of the fundamental human right in any international charter.

Infidelity, and other much vaguer deficiencies, ARE still grounds for civil divorce wherever civil divorce laws have been promulgated.

Robert Agius

Nov 11th 2012, 12:38

In a world dominated for ages by Religious zealots it is easy to say ' It is NOT one of the fundamental human right in any international charter.' dottore. How about you tell us YOUR opinion without hiding behind laws, ironically made by men not God? Or is morality solely given by a divine being or dictated by certain other individuals? Come on, tell us, what rights should gay people have?

Francis Saliba M.D.

Nov 11th 2012, 17:22

@RobertAgius.
I say that gay marriage is not a fundamental human right because it is not on the relevant UN charter or any other international charter I know of. If you have evidence to the contrary produce it, otherwise shut up. It is up to you to prove your wild assertions. It is not up to me to dredge up non-existent fundamental rights charters that exist only in your imagination.

Robert Agius

Nov 11th 2012, 21:01

Like a true Christian, Dottore. A slavish, mindless christian who needs others to tell him what is morally wrong or right, and can only look at scripts or scriptures fo. I do not need to prove any assertions (read comment again), I have a brain which might be god given, so I use it. So, if it was not written in any charter that women are allowed to vote, then you would be fine with that? Brilliant

Francis Saliba M.D.

Nov 12th 2012, 12:16

@RAgius
I don’t speculate on what the UN charter of fundamental human rights might state. I stick to facts. I use my God-given brain to draw logical conclusions. One conclusion is that rights are given by charters, by parliaments, by laws. You do not arrogate them to yourself using whatever brilliant intellectual powers you pretend to have to decide for everybody else what is right or wrong.

Andy Farrugia

Nov 11th 2012, 10:46

There is no conflict of interest. Having an informed, well-developed conscience is NO OBSTACLE at all in decision-taking. Inform yourself.

Alex Ellul

Nov 10th 2012, 22:19

Haha, Gonzi will not survive? LOL. It's not Romney or Gonzi who will not survive but the economies of the west. The euro is finished and 1/2 of each $ is owned by China. Now,after Obama's election,the media are telling us about the Fiscal Cliff. 16 trillion $ in the red, 8% unemployment. The west's economy is in tatters. The question is not if we fall of the cliff, but how how hard the fall

Francis Saliba M.D.

Nov 11th 2012, 06:27

Those who seek financial gain anywhere are not necessarily holier than thou Maltese,

Jo Meli

Nov 11th 2012, 07:51

Could not have expressed your views any better !!!

Jayvee you are RIGHT :)

Francis Saliba M.D.

Nov 11th 2012, 06:23

We are NOT common people imposing our beliefs on others. We are common people insisting on our fundamental human right to choose our religion while others hold theirs, if they have any. We are not brainwashed into believing that we are imposing on anyone else, We refuse to be intimidated and forced to relinquish our right to choose and to practice our religion openly. We resist that imposition.

Francis Saliba M.D.

Nov 11th 2012, 06:42

The European Union is a result of a European culture that is highly indebted to its Catholic roots and which it is useless to deny.

Robert Agius

Nov 11th 2012, 09:27

...but you just exposed yourself for being no different from them. It's only us OR (not and) them in an undemocratic intolerant mindset, such as yours. You both wan to impose on others....well, some really just want to decide for themselves but are seen as oppressors to those with a different set of values.

Andy Farrugia

Nov 11th 2012, 11:12

@ Robert Agius

No, you're wrong......"some really want to decide for themselves"....no, you cannot decide for yourself whether to kill another human being ( or creature for that matter), because then it becomes murder , and the foulest one is that of innocent, vulnerable ones in their mothers' wombs.

Robert Agius

Nov 11th 2012, 13:20

Fetus ...not human being yet. You may disagree. This is a debate that will have many valid arguments from one side and the other. However, for a start, I would leave it up to women to decide. Those that think it is morally wrong would chose not to abort. Those who think otherwise will to what they find fit. Both have to bear the consequences and responsibilities of their decision.

Robert Agius

Nov 11th 2012, 13:23

...but of course. I'm wrong, as you state, because my opinion differs from yours. That's tolerance for you.

Andy Farrugia

Nov 11th 2012, 18:58

@ Robert Agius

And NO, there no valid arguments either side...it is murder of the most innocent and vulnerable in what is supposed to be the safe haven of life and love turned into a cell of mass extermination. Congrats. once again.

Robert Agius

Nov 12th 2012, 07:00

Or really? and what is your opinion on slaughter houses then? Or does our moral bigotry only defend its own kind? Can you make some scientific claims to go with your intolerant convictions? Are there any cases where you see that such methods would seem fit? amuse me, will you?

Mary Ann Borg

Nov 10th 2012, 20:56

and they all sound and behave like our Graffiti............who didnt raise a finger when a Russian Navy destroyer entered Grand Harbour a couple of weeks ago. Neither did Lejber and Gino Cauchi.

Noel Mifsud

Nov 11th 2012, 07:24

Mary Ann whats your point, for Labour and Gino Cauchi the have'nt protested for a long time. For Graffiti they should have done it as well, but they onlu do it when we celebrate Freedom Day not for every vessel who entered the Harbour. If they do it for every one the would have raised a protest weekly.

Robert Agius

Nov 11th 2012, 09:33

Oh! I'm sure all politicians are trembling at that though. Get real please. Save a few (dwindling in numbers), most of the politicians are a self serving lot who couldn't care less about their creator, of course, a nation who believes such things is quite beneficial or people with power when you think about it..

Andy Farrugia

Nov 10th 2012, 19:05

Codswallop...inform yourself before uttering more inanities.

charles caruana

Nov 10th 2012, 19:32

Why not spend a month in Saudi Arabia or among the Afghan Talibans to finally see the difference between Catholic and Muslim tolerance? And who is imposing on the fundamental rights of Tonio Borg here? And you are not yourself proselytising here, and not allowing your atheist non-belief to influence the legislative instinct of politicians, I suppose? Very tolerant of you Mr Borg.

Francis Saliba M.D.

Nov 10th 2012, 19:37

Catholics do not impose their values differently from the imposition your values on Catholics. Refrain from using "loaded" terms "impose" instead of the correct "differ from" the values of others. You fool only yourself. The tolerance of Malta Catholics to all religions is enshrined in the Constitution and practiced to the extent of allowing atheists to vilify the state religion illegally.

Charles Grixti

Nov 10th 2012, 19:44

@Any and Charles

If you have any doubt that Catholic views are intolerant, read history. When the Church had a free hand to influence laws, it gave us the Inquisition and the Dark Ages. The absolute power to rule over men and society are powerful aphrodisiacs. Human nature does not change. Here is a little quote for you:

"This Jesus myth has served us well" Pope Leo X

Joe M Borg

Nov 10th 2012, 19:53

Victor, WAKE UP! In THIS case, the gay movement is INTOLERANT for someone who practices his Christian faith! If TB was gay, there wouldn't be any trouble for becoming a Commissioner, BUT BECAUSE OF HIS CHRISTIAN VALUES, he can't. Some tolerance from the gay lobbyists!

Andy Farrugia

Nov 10th 2012, 20:35

@ Charles Grixti

Cut out the spinning, weaving and twisting: inform yourself. The imposition comes from assorted motley crowds of deranged groups who have perverted language, meaning, thought and reality; who insist on turning safe havens of wombs into dungeons of mass destruction; who have undermined the building blocks of humanity and society , who insist of foisting their world view on all.

Charles Grixti

Nov 11th 2012, 00:55

@Andy Farrugia

Thank you for describing to a T what the Catholic Church is mostly about. And if you think this is spin, dare you read the book by that Jesuit - Peter Da Rosa, "The Vicar of Christ"? Do us and yourself a favour and educate yourself - this information comes from the vaults deep in the guts of the Vatican - Fr. Da Rosa spent 12 years researching there.

Francis Saliba M.D.

Nov 11th 2012, 08:55

@CGrixti & V Borg.

History proves that all society was, and still is, intolerant not religion only. Today, Christianity is the victim of a crude murderous violence in Islamic states plus an intense covert psychological persecution by secularists and humanists who try to drive it underground. These are the ones imposing their unbelief and their licentious life style on the rest.

Robert Agius

Nov 11th 2012, 09:36

@ Joe Borg,

It's though when the tide is against you, isn't it?

Andy Farrugia

Nov 10th 2012, 19:10

What is a progressive politician? Define your terms! Someone who is in favour of the annual mass destruction of human beings in their mothers' wombs? Is that a progressive politician? Stop spinning and twisting; you are not simply dangerous and anachronistic but irrational to boot.

Joe M Borg

Nov 10th 2012, 19:56

Victor, YOUR 'progressive politicians' are IMPOSING on TB what he SHOULD believe in! And it's too early to claim yourself to be an atheist! Normally we KNOW that someone is an atheist on his deathbed. Yes, I know of a couple of 'self-declared' atheists who, on their deathbeds, asked to see a priest! When the time comes, and it always comes, one shows what he REALLY believes in!

Andy Farrugia

Nov 10th 2012, 19:07

Same-sex marriage is not a human right....do not try to introduce new rights by stealth....quote chapter and verse, but no interpretations or twisting of facts.

R. Caruana

Nov 10th 2012, 19:24

Can't word it better myself, it is precisely the issue here, a secular EU has no need for such politicians regardless of their background.

Joe M Borg

Nov 10th 2012, 20:04

Some human rights! Isn't traditional marriage a 'human right', Mr Schembri? The 'human right' of divorce does not give a damn on what the children will suffer. The 'human right' of 'choice' kills innocent babies! While same sex marriage gives the right to adopt, forgetting the 'HUMAN RIGHT' of every child to have a mother and father figure. Children ALWAYS suffer because of adult's 'human rights'

Robert R. Mifsud

Nov 10th 2012, 21:24

Ahfrilhom Mulej,ghax ma jafux x`huma jaghmlu u jghidu.

Aaron Vella

Nov 11th 2012, 01:43

He's going to be the Health and Consumer Affairs commissioner... Divorce, Abortion, Gay marriage and all other views don't have anything to do with his role. So yes, the problem is Mr Borg's religion. And I don't believe in God, but I call a spade, a spade.

J Buttigieg

Nov 10th 2012, 18:55

Mr Aquilina, I totally agree with you.

Mary Ann Borg

Nov 10th 2012, 21:02

I thought the human race was superior to animals. Now the human race is pushing for things that not even animals do - simply because its not natural. Has absolutely nothing to do with religion but all ex-communists, having lost their case with the meltdown of the USSR have all turned their sights and anger towards anything Catholic, not even any religion but specifically Catholic.

Peter Murray

Nov 10th 2012, 18:32

What precisely is right sir and by whose defintion?

Mario Schembri Wismayer

Nov 10th 2012, 19:26

@Peter Murray: Why, the Holy Catholic Church, Her Doctrine and the Magisterium. That, precisely, is what is right and the Church has the divine authority (and duty) to define what is right through Christ's teachings. It is up to us to apply these principles in the world. Dr Borg is coming under attack for doing this...

Mike Hunt

Nov 10th 2012, 18:27

Why should the EU mention god? Please provide evidence for the existence of a god. If you cannot, maybe there isn't place for a god in social institutions.

S. Azzopardi

Nov 10th 2012, 19:45

@ Mike Hunt

Why shouldn't they mention God? Please provide evidence that God doesn't exist.

Mike Hunt

Nov 11th 2012, 02:02

@S. Azzopardi

Using your fallacious argument please prove that Father Christmas does not exist. In that case he should be mentioned too ... and the flying spaghetti monster

Andy Farrugia

Nov 10th 2012, 18:20

Codswallop; he has imposed nothing at all; having personal beliefs and views, being a practising Catholic does not mean imposing anything on others. Stop twisting, spinning, weaving and perverting reality.

Colin Stanley

Nov 10th 2012, 18:33

by the same token these three organisations want to impose the beliefs on us too. you are either with us or you are not European thats what it means to me,where is the Christain EU we heard about before we jioned.

Anthony Galea

Nov 10th 2012, 18:49

That's a pretty statement, but let's break it down shall we?

Re abortion, Catholics think that it is they who are doing the imposition by taking away human life; our opinion is just as valid.

Re gay marriage, Dr Borg can hardly put forward an edict declaring gay marriage illegal in the EU can he? So where is the imposition? His tasks have nothing to do with marriage legislation in the EU.

Anthony Galea

Nov 10th 2012, 22:21

Re abortion, Catholics think that it is they who are doing the imposition by taking away human life; our opinion is just as valid. <-------- I obviously meant 'they' (the libertarians); the wording wasn't clear.

Mike Hunt

Nov 10th 2012, 18:28

Freedom of belief (in unsubstantiated magical beings) does not equate to intolerance towards others.

Francis Saliba M.D.

Nov 10th 2012, 19:45

@MikeHunt.
In this case the intolerance is being exerted by the abortionists, by the gays etc against a prospective EU Commissioner.

S. Azzopardi

Nov 10th 2012, 21:15

@ Mike Hunt

On the other hand freedom of belief does not allow one to be persecuted for his beliefs either. I think we have had enough individuals who made millions of people suffer simply because of their beliefs. Let's hope we do not go back to the times of the early Catholics.

Andy Farrugia

Nov 10th 2012, 17:56

"The EU is secular and those wishing to serve are expected to remain neutral and not comment, judge or pass any personal views they have"

The Stasi, the KGB and the Gestapo were far more tolerant than this. Shame.

James De Giorgio

Nov 10th 2012, 18:02

So, according to what you've written, the EU does not tolerate freedom of speech...

... NOT!! Tonio Borg has every right to express views the way he ought to do. "remain neutral and not comment" in soviet russia maybe...

charles caruana

Nov 10th 2012, 19:44

The problem is yours Mr Elliot, because you seem to harbour the Stalinist idea that by expressing one' s personal disagreement in public is to paint oneself in a corner. Have you ever heard of the right to free speech? The EU is democratic, and secularism is just one worldview among many and all have the right of say. Your neutrality is totalitarian, in case you have not noticed, Mr Elliot.

Andy Farrugia

Nov 10th 2012, 17:46

Whatever happens, this nomination has completely and utterly UNMASKED the despotic, intolerant, perverted and dangerous methods of a number of organisations, namely the humanists, the liberals, the extreme socialists, ILGA, the abortionists and assorted nihilists. They are an existential threat to Europe and to humanity in general.

Mike Hunt

Nov 10th 2012, 18:28

Are you saying that Dr Borg is a sheep?

Andy Farrugia

Nov 10th 2012, 19:14

@ Mike Hunt

Better a sheep than a rabid predatory wolf.

Joseph Aquilina

Nov 10th 2012, 17:30

As part of the EU we have a right to fight for our rights, for our culture, for what we believe is right!! Tonio Borg is good for the job and if he gets rejected then we will have to fight at EU level so that no else will BE DISCRIMINATED because he is a Roman Catholic!!

S. Azzopardi

Nov 10th 2012, 17:49

This is not being unable to stand 'the heat' as you crudely put it, it is not being happy when another Maltese is being unjustly attacked for his beliefs. Afterall the EU was founded on the values which us Catholics hold most important. The values of solidarity and tolerance.

G Schembri

Nov 10th 2012, 18:35

As part of the EU everybody has the right to fight for his own rights, even if he has a different sexual orientation. These lobby groups fighting for their rights, and politicians have a duty to respect our rights not impose their extreme religious views on us.

charles caruana

Nov 10th 2012, 17:37

So one cannot be militant about gay rights, or abortion rights, or feminist rights - right? Or is it only militancy for Catholic values that are 'bound' to raise hackles in free and democratic Europe? You are right, the problem is in others who are not of the same beliefs and who won't tolerate militancy for any belief except their own.

Charles Grixti

Nov 10th 2012, 17:50

@Charles Caruana

But sir you forgot to mention that the difference is that militant Catholic Rights seek to take away the rights of others. Gay or Feminist rights do not presume to do that. And therein is the crux of the problem. In the same way that militant Islam and Sharia are undemocratic and discriminatory, so are many basic Catholic teachings.

S. Azzopardi

Nov 10th 2012, 17:52

@ Charles Caruana

The problem is not that these lobby groups express their ideas. That is how it SHOULD be in a democracy. The problem is that they are doing it in a coordinated attack to damage a person BECAUSE of his beliefs, not for something wrong he has done.

Andy Farrugia

Nov 10th 2012, 18:13

@ Charles Grixti

"Gay or Feminist rights do not presume to do that." In fact, the opposite is true. They want to impose their lifestyles on others, they want to block the nomination of others and worst of all they seek to alter natural law by stealthy means and to destroy children in their mothers' wombs.

charles caruana

Nov 10th 2012, 19:23

@ Charles Grixti
Mention one instance where 'militant Catholic Rights' are forcibly taking away the rights of others. In most European countries Catholics will continue to disagree with and condemn the so called 'right' to abortion, as they have every right to in a democracy. Why not go live some time in Saudi Arabia, to learn the difference between Catholic teaching and Sharia. Incredible!

Charles Grixti

Nov 10th 2012, 19:26

@Andy Farrugia

You are mistaken. Impose your intolerant beliefs by making them into law and forcing them on people tand society is something that Gays or Feminists do not do. It is the Conservative elements in society that always impose their paternalistic and negative world view. Gays and Feminists do not legislate against you but you do against them.

Charles Grixti

Nov 10th 2012, 19:32

@Andy Farrugia

And pray tell how will gays force their lifestyle on others? Can they turn them gay lke them or make laws that henceforth everyone will be gay? As for abortion - there are many facets to this issue and many lives have been saved by eliminating backsteet abortions.

Charles Grixti

Nov 10th 2012, 19:36

@S. Azzopardi

Lobby groups do not represent their ideas in society so much as directly to the ears of the lawmakers, thus undemining democracy. Secondly, a person's beliefs give an indication of how they will perform and view their role, i.e. a person who believes is divinely inspired will not conform to democratic guidelines and thus is dangerous to have at the legislating levels.

Andy Farrugia

Nov 10th 2012, 20:40

@ Charlles Grixti

Inform yourself about the not-so-hidden agenda of FRALEX ( Fundamental Rights [sic] Agency of Legal EXperts) and how they are in the pay of CRR ( Centre for Reproductive Rights - ABORTIONISTS) and how they also include a Maltese lawyer among the group led by Olivier de Schutter. They pose a real threat to humanity through their deranged impositions. Inform yourself.

Charles Grixti

Nov 11th 2012, 03:45

@Andy Farrugia

Reproductive Rights does not mean abortion - inform yourself. Abortion is only a small percentage. And if you want to know what the real danger and menace to humanity is, it is unchecked population growth. With over 6 billion already, there is a great danger of ecological collapse the scale of which has never been seen. Good riddance to humanity I say, the sooner the better.

Charles Grixti

Nov 11th 2012, 03:51

@Charles Caruana

Ah, but you just wait. Catholics and other Right Wing Conservatives do not have a majority to take away the right of others as yet, BUT if they did that is exactly what they do - for like Islam, they do not see any difference between Church and State. And besides, we have seen it all before when the Church had absolute power. It can happen again unless good men are vigilant.

Andy Farrugia

Nov 11th 2012, 19:46

@ Charles Grixti


Reproductive rights MEAN ABORTION. You are singularly misinformed.

Cornelius Murphy

Nov 10th 2012, 17:46

The problem isn't whether one holds Christian beliefs or not. The problem is that politicians cannot be allowed to impose their religious beliefs on others by means of the laws they create. Unfortunately, many Christian politicians have a big problem with setting their beliefs aside and allowing other people to live their lives as they want.

James De Giorgio

Nov 10th 2012, 18:04

@Cornelius Murphy. No, the problem is the opposite! Politicians cannot have christian opinions, otherwise they will be marginalised!! So, it's the christian politicians who can't live their life the way they want mate!

S. Azzopardi

Nov 10th 2012, 18:55

@ Cornelius Murphy

Your attempt to justify these attacks has more wholes than a ceive. If you had read the article properly you would have realised that the portfolio Dr Borg would be holding has nothing to do with these groups. This goes to show that he is being attacked for his personal beliefs and not because he might impose his beliefs on their way of life.

charles caruana

Nov 10th 2012, 17:06

So everyone has a right to say in public he is pro gay marriage, and is welcomed with open arms in 'free, progressive' Europe, but Tonio Borg cannot express publicly his disagreement and must suffer the consequences. Mr Grima, start learning the ABC of democracy , starting with the right to free speech.

Francis Saliba M.D.

Nov 10th 2012, 17:12

The State, in Malta, tolerates and protects all religions. It is therefore a lie to write that it is "the Christian way or nothing" or that we are intolerant of the rest. People like you would only be satisfied if in Malta we would not be allowed to practice our religion according to our conscience, when we are tolerant of all other religions in accordance with fundamental human rights.

Mike Hunt

Nov 10th 2012, 19:43

Tolerates (such a nasty word) and protects all religions (well). Yet it won't grant homosexuals the same rights as straight people. Example marriage.

Francis Saliba M.D.

Nov 10th 2012, 20:42

@MikeHunt
Homosexuals claim rights that exist only in their fertile imagination such the right of a male to marry his husband or a lady to marry her wife when every schoolboys who has learnt about the birds and the bees knows that it is not so.

Mike Hunt

Nov 11th 2012, 02:06

@Francis Saliba M.D.: If kids bring up their sexuality based on bees they'd think life is a matriarchy with a promiscuous lady at the top, lots of men just hanging around waiting to get laid by the the queen or one of her princesses when they leave home, and millions of sexually inactive ladies doing all the work.

maybe at school is failing our kids

Francis Saliba M.D.

Nov 11th 2012, 11:22

@MikeHunt.

Infants schoolchildren continue learning beyond the "birds and bees" stage and advance to a normal adult physiological heterosexual experience. They also learn that toleration is a virtue and not "a nasty word" as alleged by you. You do not exhibit the results one would expect from an average schooling.

Matthew Grima

Nov 12th 2012, 11:35

What fertile imagination? Like the one a so called doctor has in claiming that homosexuality isn't natural?

Francis Saliba M.D.

Nov 17th 2012, 09:25

@MatthewGrima
As a medical doctor who knows much more than you do about anatomy and physiology let me teach you that the PERFORMANCE of homosexual acts is never natural, no matter what you say.

Mike Hunt

Nov 10th 2012, 19:59

A right is not a mandate to discriminate and try to hold back the right of others. As an atheist I hold nothing as sacred as life and therefore I am not one to promote handing out abortion vouchers with supermarket loyalty points. I do think there are circumstances where termination is the only option, but not one to be taken lightly. But what is there to object to in gay marriage?

Joseph Aquilina

Nov 10th 2012, 16:47

He serves God best when he does his best to serve the people. Which means that serving his "Master" well, implies serving the people well.

James De Giorgio

Nov 10th 2012, 18:05

ridiculous argument. I don't want to live under atheist politician's, so each time I'll see them serving their own purposes, I'll cry foul, shall I?

Mr Duncan Scerri

Nov 10th 2012, 16:35

Except, it would seem, where it goes against Christian doctrine. This is the intolerance of all religions.

Matthew Vella

Nov 10th 2012, 16:41

What LGBT individuals are asking for is to have the same rights as others. That is NOT an imposition of beliefs. Stopping someone from having those rights is an imposition.

Paolo Bugeja

Nov 10th 2012, 19:13

Why is any gay or lesbian forcing you to marry someone of your own sex? Or not acknowledging your marriage? Shame on him/her!!

James De Giorgio

Nov 10th 2012, 18:07

william, in britian bbc reported recently on an atheist CoE priest!! so he's a christian priest, but atheist... compute that. moreover, cecilia whatever's her surname is a vocal abortion advocate. Yes, very christian...

charles caruana

Nov 10th 2012, 17:28

Your notion of dignity is sadly skewed and pathetic. Don't you feel any disgust at those NGO's who are trying to undermine the dignity of your fellow countryman by attacking his fundamental human rights to free speech, freedom of religious belief, and his legal right to be judged solely on the basis his competence and knowledge of his prospective portfolio, not his personal beliefs. Catholiphobia?

Paolo Bugeja

Nov 10th 2012, 19:16

Whilst understanding your fear, why would the UK be anymore yours than theirs? I guess that unless they harm others, they are free to believe in what they want to believe in. Or believe in nothing. I guess its their choice!

Joseph Aquilina

Nov 10th 2012, 17:16

First of all the religious of Joe Borg and John Dalli is their own business. Second, what is clear here is that if you are Christian, and you manage to keep it hidden, no problem, but if you admit it, and actually cherish it, then you are persecuted!! This is similar to what we have in our schools, children who have to act as if they do not believe in anything or or otherwise they will be bullied!

Ronald Cauchi

Nov 10th 2012, 17:20

.....But they didnt go out of their way to thrust their beliefs down our throat. They were discreet and knew how to separate religion which is personal from politics which is public and should never be sectarian

Joseph Aquilina

Nov 10th 2012, 17:33

@Ronald Cauchi
Clearly you do not know how to distinguish between "having an opinion" and "forcing your opinion on others". Tonio Borg has his opinion like everyone else and he has a right for his own opinion. Do not know when he forced such opinions on others and indeed these last five years are a testimony of that!!

Francis Saliba M.D.

Nov 10th 2012, 18:06

@RonaldCauchi
Stop using cliches like "thrusting beliefs down our throats" when the precise word is "teaching". It does not fool anybody.

Paolo Bugeja

Nov 10th 2012, 19:20

@ Francis Saliba. What has teaching got to do with a Ministerial role? In that I would not call it "thrusting", but if you think that the Ministers in Malta are teaching us, then you haven't met any of them!! But anyways, whatever we think of them, they still sleep at night!!

David Caruana

Nov 10th 2012, 20:29

I was being sarcastic to point at the fact that the humanists, LGBT and pro-choice NGOs were not criticising Tonio for being Catholic - that is a big fat lie by this European 'Dignity' (sic) Watch. If it wasn't a lie, then why didn't these NGOs criticise our 2 former CATHOLIC Commissioners?

Francis Saliba M.D.

Nov 11th 2012, 09:40

@PaulBugeja.
You didn't understand anything. I refer a to teaching by the Church that is distorted into a "thrusting down throats" by the bigoted. Politicians behave in accordance with or in defiance of that teaching according to their moral standards when they have any.

Joseph Calleja

Nov 10th 2012, 16:07

it looks clearer and clearer that there is something rotten in Denmark not only on this fact, but also on how politics and pressures are done, budgets and recessions, how to shove people out and who to welcome, slandering and grilling.
Sometimes I think that some have stretched too much the concept of a box, so much so that now it lost its shape but are still adamant to call it box :)

Joseph Zammit

Nov 10th 2012, 15:59

Well said Charles. Its not because he is catholic, that was John Dalli was and no one complaint. No wonder they named him the dinosaur, thats what he is with his ideas. Same goes for a good number of his PN colegues.

Joseph Calleja

Nov 10th 2012, 16:02

Me thinks that 'qieghed thallat il-hass, mal-b***'. that within the catholic Church there is a wide array of ideas is true and that makes it diverse and pluralistic (buzz word for today), but stating that NOT even considered as Christian is simply erroneous. Kindly get some facts in order.

Mr Francesco Callus

Nov 10th 2012, 16:22

Thats quite a fundamentalistic judgement

charles caruana

Nov 10th 2012, 17:00

Mr Grixti, try to wipe the rabid anti-Catholic froth from your mouth, and make the supreme effort to realise how ridiculous your statements really are. For you, a follower of Christ should support abortion, gay marriage, divorce, euthanasia - all of which the Catholic Church opposes, therefore she is not Christian. Enough absurdity to make the angels in heaven weep at our monkeying.

Charles Grixti

Nov 10th 2012, 17:27

@Francesco Callus

This is not a judgement per se but a fact of life. Many Christian Churches and others do not consider the Catholic Church as being truly Christian - that is the Church is founded mainly on the teachings of Popes etc and not on the Gospels. I can name you a long list of things not endorsed by Christ that are found in the Catholic Church that make a dfferent to Christianity.

Mr Francesco Callus

Nov 10th 2012, 19:30

Well Mr Grixti just a reminder that this list is coming from more than 20,000 different christian churches that came out of the CATHOLIC church.

David Caruana

Nov 10th 2012, 15:51

'Confirming Malta’s nominee would be detrimental to the tobacco industry so it enlists their support'

Proof please! Conspiracy theories are just that - conspiracy theories!

Joseph Aquilina

Nov 10th 2012, 16:55

@David Caruana
Its nice to see how you avoid to comment on Francis first point "but these lobbies demand that they be tolerated whilst denying tolerance to others". Maybe because it is a fact that is hard to deny!?

Francis Saliba M.D.

Nov 10th 2012, 17:21

@DavidCaruana.
No proof needed for the obvious, only elementary intelligence. The longer Malta's nominee is refused acceptance the longer it will be before the Tobacco Directive can be reactivated and that is what the tobacco lobby wants.

pat muscat

Nov 10th 2012, 15:47

This talk on 'European values' should have taken place before we joined the European Union, not after; but at that time Tonio Borg and his Party were selling us different ' European values' and hilarious European benefits- like the 100 million Malta liri Malta was supposed to receive from the EU!

Mike Hunt

Nov 10th 2012, 18:32

Cool. So which of them is right? Hindus (quite plenty of them around) believe in a whole party of gods. Are any of them any more or less real than the one god of the Abrahamic religions? That same god who ask abraham to sacrifice his own kid and then went 'hang on lol I was just kidding'.

Joseph Calleja

Nov 10th 2012, 15:33

we all have values, like it or not, and that includes you writing here and those whom the article above mentions. some are clear in what they embrace, while others tend to pick and choose according to time, place, pressure and culture.

Francis Saliba M.D.

Nov 10th 2012, 15:39

Too many suppositions, too ridicilous to rebut. Dr Borg does not "want" to evangelise. He is simply Malta's enforced replacement for the previous Commissioner. No ulterior motives.

Evarist Saliba

Nov 10th 2012, 16:25

You are clearly implying that Tonio Boeg was not nominated because of his abilities and talents. Your intolerant bias is unjustied, not to say bigotted.

Wilfred Camilleri

Nov 10th 2012, 15:34

Those in the EU opposing this nomination are doing so because he doesn't subscribe to their agenda. So according to them, only anyone who agrees with them and their agenda should be nominated! How's that for democracy! Since when do all those nominated have to agree with what these misfits believe in?

Giov DeMartino

Nov 10th 2012, 15:10

Like the devil

m abela

Nov 10th 2012, 14:38

This is perhaps Dr.Borg's greatest opportunity, which he will take on with relish . I have full faith in his abilities and am longing to see how he responds.

Philip Micallef

Nov 10th 2012, 14:40

You have my full support and shame for One Station in seemingly supporting all these false accusations.

Andy Farrugia

Nov 10th 2012, 14:40

Hear, hear: those repulsive, despotic groups have been outed long ago and they should be constantly reminded of their rabid kind of intolerance and discrimination.

Evarist Saliba

Nov 10th 2012, 16:29

Unfortunately, there are many Maltese who share and promote the intolerant views of those opposing the nomination of Tonio Borg.

Mike Hunt

Nov 10th 2012, 14:47

Really? Can you please point to any scientific evidence to support the existence of this god?

Mr Anthony Briffa

Nov 10th 2012, 15:22

@ Mike Hunt.

There is no need for scientific proof. The fact alone that you were born, brought up, and you are still alive is and hopefully healthy is proof enough that there is a God.

Patrick Pullicino

Nov 10th 2012, 15:24

God created science and is not bound by its laws and so science cannot be a measure of God. Can you measure wisdom, love, beauty or justice by science?

Wilfred Camilleri

Nov 10th 2012, 15:36

@ Mike Hunt Can you point to any scientific evidence to support your misguided belife that God does not exist?

Alfred J. McEwen

Nov 10th 2012, 16:04

Alfred J. McEwen
@ W Camilleri re: Mike Hunt

Checkmate !!

Charles Grixti

Nov 10th 2012, 17:53

@Willfred Camilleri

In the abscence of proof, the onus falls on the ones supporting the existance of God. The ball is in your court.

Charles Grixti

Nov 10th 2012, 17:55

@Anthony Briffa @ Patrick Pullicino

You cannot use God as proof that there is a God. Fallacy of logic.

Mike Hunt

Nov 10th 2012, 19:23

OK ... let's assume because i cannot prove that god doesn't exist then god exists (logical fallacy but anyway). Can you define this god? Is it the god of the christians, the god of the muslims, one or all of the hindu gods, or the flying spaghetti monster? I've had a look at the FSM beliefs and they are more sound than Islam or Christianity.

David J Cassar

Nov 10th 2012, 14:41

What is odd Mr.borg is that you strongly believe in your right to express a personal opinion BUT concurrently adamantly pontificate that others,ditto Dr.Borg, does not have the right to declare his beliefs. Prosit I admire your arrogance!

Evarist Saliba

Nov 10th 2012, 16:37

Have you read the article? It is the self-proclaimed progressive pressure groups mentioned in the article who are openly opposing Tonio Borg because of his religious beliefs. It would be interesting to know if there are Maltese elements who are promoting in an underhand way this campaign against their compatriot.

Joseph Aquilina

Nov 10th 2012, 14:22

First, we should still be proud to have joined the EU since like that we CAN CHANGE WHAT WE THINK IS WRONG!!! If we where not part of the EU we would never have been able to put a fight against discrimination on Roman Catholics, on Christians!!

Joseph Aquilina

Nov 10th 2012, 14:23

and now Malta should use its position in the EU to make sure that not EU citizen is discriminated against just because he or she is Christian!! That is the mission of Malta and us Maltese!!


Joseph Aquilina

Nov 10th 2012, 14:21

People in the middle ages used to think like you!! Today the EU is a collection of countries with different cultures that accept each other!! Your philosophy - and that of many socialist - goes against the EU dream; i.e. - that we accept each other and work together for a better future for everyone!!

A Camilleri

Nov 10th 2012, 15:06

If the EU stands for freedom of speech and beliefs then Tonio Borg has as much right as you Mr Murray and all the NGO's and all the Wikstroms of this world and all the LBGT's to hold your and their views. What a travesty of freedom. Anyone can hold any views and possibly also be a Commisioner but one who professes his Chistianity is discriminated against. Liberalism my foot.

Joseph Aquilina

Nov 10th 2012, 14:01

John Dalli religious values are his own personal business, but for sure he can not say he highlighted the importance of Christian values as much as Tonio Borg, which is why in the end Tonio Borg is targeted by Socialist who can not stand those who cherish some form of values!!

m. borg (slm)

Nov 10th 2012, 14:23

But the message of their sabre-rattling in the lead-up to the hearing is clear: European values are not Christian values—and Christian values are incompatible with European values."

Why are you lot whinning? You had a choice, Partnership or Full-membership, now just shut up and enjoy the friuts of your decisions.

Joseph Aquilina

Nov 10th 2012, 17:59

You use the word European wrongly. Many in Europe are proud of their Christian values; it is the socialist and liberal blocks at the EU which seems to have a problem with such values.

Joseph Aquilina

Nov 10th 2012, 18:01

@m. borg (slm)
Sorry did not see that you where quoting that line. My point however remains; First many Europeans are proud of their Christian values. Second we as Europeans have a right to fight in the EU so that socialists and liberals can no longer discriminate against Christians.

Edward Camilleri

Nov 10th 2012, 14:01

Well wth such statements "Try and impede me and you see what happens." you show without any doubt your catholic roots Mr. Agius!

I have read each of the statements written by Mr. Chetcuti and he only wrote his views without threatening anyone!

Kenneth Grima

Nov 10th 2012, 14:23

The problem here in Malta is that it has to be the Christian way or nothing. Intolerance towards the rest is the rule and the same when it comes to our laws. What is being done to Mr.Borg in the EP, maltese do it with non christians here, and now we are complaining, If Mr.Borg refrained on some comments in the past he wouldn't be in this situation. I.m sorry for him as he is really qualified.

Mr Joseph Carmel Chetcuti

Nov 10th 2012, 21:23

Peter, the names Joseph and Carmel are Jewish NOT Catholic. As usual, names are hijacked by the self-proclaimed orthodox Catholics who did their best to annihilate other Christian beliefs (eg Ebionites if you ever heard of them). Remember Jesus and Mary and Joseph were born Jewish, lived as Jews and died as Jews, not Christian or Catholic. I am sure you were not taught that in the skola tan-nuna.

m. borg (slm)

Nov 10th 2012, 14:28

So now you are seeing the light , thanks to Simon Busutill and Co. you were fooled.

c p agius

Nov 10th 2012, 15:38

Europe has ALWAYS been like this.....You were only mislead by the Maltese Christian Party.....

Manuel Mangani

Nov 10th 2012, 13:59

Did you read the Swedish Liberal MEP's comments yestarday? She cannot stomach Tonio Borg's pro-life and pro-marriage stances.

Edward Camilleri

Nov 10th 2012, 14:06

Agree with you 100%

L Borissova

Nov 10th 2012, 15:04

@Simon Oosterman, I couldn't have put it better. It's the willingness to impose one's personal values when legislating for millions of Europeans with different views that is very disturbing. The intended spin seems to be to twist the words of Borg's critics and portray their reservations as an attack on his personal values per se, which they are NOT. The thinking beings can surely see through this

Evarist Saliba

Nov 10th 2012, 16:41

And in your view those opposing Tonio Borg are not imposing their views on the rest of us. How democratic!

L Borissova

Nov 10th 2012, 23:03

Mr Saliba, it's about a Commissioner-designate's impartiality. Intolerance to intolerance is what those groups are doing, not imposing views. The question is if he can really keep his personal views (to which no one objects) to himself in his work as a Commissioner. Him voting against (i.e. legislating) during the divorce vote even when the country said yes indicates that, apparently, he can not .

David Caruana

Nov 10th 2012, 14:24

Oh dear! You crying wolf again!

If you don't like same-sex marriage, don't have one, but in your case you want to bar others from having this right.

Debate is not bullying so please stop sulking whenever you come out with a failed argument.

What was it again? Same-sex marriage will effect your marriage? HOW?

P. Vincenti

Nov 10th 2012, 13:57

What hogwash. The problem with liberalism is it won't come out and say what it really wants to. It hides being diplomatic language.

Joe Sultana

Nov 10th 2012, 14:19

They "allow" Christians to be Christians!!!! thank very much for your condescension. fundamentalist liberals and whatever are of course quite free to do as they like.
So, when in Parliament, an MP votes against any bill being put to the vote, she/he is being discrinating against that bill. Wonder of wonders,Mr. Stefan Kottmann-Soler, you perspicacity is hilarious.

Mr Stefan Kottmann-Soler

Nov 10th 2012, 14:45

Joe Sultana - quite the opposite, in fact. Let me say it plain language - liberals don't intefere in anyone's business, including the beliefs and values of Christians. However, Christinas are always on a mission to deny liberals their rights - such as the right to divorce. So when liberals try to avoid such scenarios, they are branded as anti-Catholic.

A Bezzina

Nov 10th 2012, 13:55

Well said!

m. borg (slm)

Nov 10th 2012, 14:30

For your information aetheists and humanists cannot use religion as a leverage as they do not believe in any religion, you have to rephrase your sentence.

Joseph E Briffa

Nov 10th 2012, 14:39

Jimmy..you betray your socialist beliefs. So according to you the EU is only for socialists and there is no place for people with Christian principles. Socialists & Liberals have no principles, everything goes.If gay people want to live with a same sex partner,it's their own affair, who cares? But to try & silence people who do not agree with their way of life is deplorable& utterly disgusting

robert pace

Nov 10th 2012, 14:14

Mr Demarco we have to respect everyone and mot just because yu dont like this tat and the otehr you just nickname communists. There are loopholes in every political belief aft all, be it fascist, nationalist or socialist .
I am od socialist principles because i believe i should shar with others and when i can help io will do definetly . I dont have to be a stonge Catholic for the show!!!!!!!

Andrea Demarco

Nov 10th 2012, 16:55

I believe she nicknamed him a 'dinosaur', so your very valid socialist sermon should go to her first, a MEP in power, rather than me.

R. Balzan

Nov 10th 2012, 14:27

X'ghandu x'jaqsam is-SOCILAISIM nghid jien? U x'inhu SOCILAISIM btw?

B Attard

Nov 10th 2012, 16:25

Nahseb qieghed out of point did-darba. Jidhirli li Cecilia Wikstrom tirraprezenta lil Liberal. Sa fejn naf jien mkien hawn fuq ma qrajt li ssemmgha xi Socjalist.

Joseph Aquilina

Nov 10th 2012, 16:58

I am not out of point. Who is the first person who put in question the nomination of Tonio Borg? Go an check and then you'll see if I am out of point?

Jimmy Ventura

Nov 10th 2012, 13:41

Christians and Muslims can live the way they want in a liberal Europe. Who wants to relive the days under Mons. Sir Michael Gonzi? Sorry Christians and Muslims can live their way but have no right to impose it on others. This is why Tonio Borg will be examined to deduce if his beliefs will hamper his work. If approved he will be a commissioner for all the EU countries and not just for Christi

S Scerri

Nov 10th 2012, 14:06

Having people with your your kind of views 'sticking up' for Tonio Borg on an internationally-accessible online newspaper actually makes matters worse for him. Which is only fair, I must say. Let him face the grilling. If he survives it, it will indicate that he is adjusting to the times and becoming more 'European', i.e. more tolerant and not imposing his religous valuri on all and sundry.

joseph saliba

Nov 10th 2012, 18:20

During the recent divorce-referendum debate, pro divorce exponents argued that the law is their for those who want to start a new family once their marriage is broken. Maltese parliament was unanimous this law was not to encourage divorce and that were in favour of strenghtening the family. Besides all impressed me by their emphasis that this was the first step towards abortion.

Martin Saliba

Nov 10th 2012, 20:07

So ? Then they shouldnt get divorced , have an abortion and not marry anyone of the same sex .

David Mangion

Nov 10th 2012, 13:53

Bravu !
Very good observation.

But be strong dear brother.

Throughout history we note that whenever Christianity was suffering persecution, it grew stronger.

Kristu waqqaf il-knisja tieghu. Jien nemmen fiH......u nemmen li qatt m'hu se jhalliha wahedha.
......"u ara Jiena nibqa maghkom sal-ahhar taz-zmien".

Joseph Aquilina

Nov 10th 2012, 13:55

Nice one Chetcuti ... you fight against discrimination against gays but then do not mind discrimination when this is against Roman Catholics? Either you are like Christians and fight against discrimination (no, gay couples unable to have children is not discrimination, its nature) in all quarters, or else be counted with those who do not mind discrimination unless they are the target of it!!

Mr Joseph Carmel Chetcuti

Nov 10th 2012, 21:25

I will stand up for Catholics who are persecuted as I would stand up for gay men and lesbians. Borg is no victim. He is not being persecuted because of his Catholic views but because he and his party seek to impose them on everyone else. In any event, you are condemned by your own words. You have no idea what nature is all about.

Joseph Aquilina

Nov 11th 2012, 15:00

@Mr Joseph Carmel Chetcuti
Tonio Borg never imposed anything on anyone. Democracy has tools on how one can express his opinion and others can agree or disagree with that opinion. Tonio Borg NEVER WENT against those democratic principals. Regarding nature; I think I know a thing or two of how nature works and I simply wrote what is obvious!!

Joseph E Briffa

Nov 10th 2012, 14:46

Is there are some hidden hand in Malta who is campaigning against Borg? It would be interesting to hear the views of our socialist MEPs. We have four of them. What do they say? Are they or aren't day campaigning for Borg? They should, as JM has pronounced himself in favour. How honest was this declaration?

B Attard

Nov 10th 2012, 13:38

But Saliba MD if you can't beat them you have to join them. That was reality when voting and joining the EU; for better and worse..

W Cassar

Nov 10th 2012, 13:39

Practicing your religion is ok, practicing it while making political agenda is another.

Don't mix issues.

Joseph Aquilina

Nov 10th 2012, 13:53

@B Attard
Typical stupid mentality!! We joined the EU in order TO HAVE A VOICE!! Have a voice to FIGHT for what is right and CHANGE what is wrong. However it seems that many in Malta, mostly unpatriotic individuals, are easily influenced from foreigners!!

Joseph Aquilina

Nov 10th 2012, 14:04

@W Cassar
In other words you are someone who DISCRIMINATES against those who have religious values!! So what now?? Should we change our laws and only allow atheists to run for office??

david debattista

Nov 10th 2012, 14:21

We always had gays, abortions, and lesbians . They also belong to our European cultural heritage . Now they are in the open. SO WHAT 'S YOUR POINT,,,,,,,, EXACTLY ?????????????

W Cassar

Nov 10th 2012, 14:33

@ Joesph

Actually its Catholics who discriminate, anti -gay laws, anti divorce, what is a family etc etc etc...

Who runs for office should represent everyone.... if not then they should state they are a catholic party, that would be only fair and just.

c p agius

Nov 10th 2012, 15:32

Were you in facour of joining the EU back in 2003? or did yu expect to join only an economic Union.....EU has been secular since its inception.........S now stop complaing the the EU is secular...It has alwaysbe...It was the Naitonalist party that tried to deceive us in making us beleive that Europe and Christianity ate synonomous......






Joseph Aquilina

Nov 10th 2012, 17:05

@W Cassar
My religious values teach me to respect everyone even when their opinion vary from mine. My religious values teach me that violence is never an answer and dialogue is the key to success. Having a different opinion is not discrimination, discrimination is when you make someone loose a job just because his opinion/life style vary then yours!!

Joseph Aquilina

Nov 10th 2012, 14:04

So for you a Muslim is ok, but a Christian is not!? To what extent does your hate against Christians go!?

W Cassar

Nov 10th 2012, 14:29

Joesph I cannot reply to questions about something I did not write.

To clarify I am stating that we will go all out to defend catholic views and doctrine, but if Borg had been a Muslim in the same position would we have taken his side and defended his right ? I wonder!

Joseph Aquilina

Nov 10th 2012, 18:05

and the truth is that Tonio Borg is a victim simply because he is a Roman Catholic... this is not a proud day for the EU parliament which have showed us once and again that they do not mind discriminating against Christians.

Luke Lanzon

Nov 10th 2012, 12:44

ermm when I was at school all I learnt was that religion brought war with it. Europe is great right now (obviously not financially) because it is secular and everyone is treated equally and not who "god" prefers.

Mr Joseph Carmel Chetcuti

Nov 10th 2012, 13:09

Leslie, before Christianity the Romans and Greeks were free to worship any God. Christianity forced religion, their form of religion, down people's throats. Those days are at an end. Good riddance! I see your idea of civilization that does not embrace gays.

Joseph Aquilina

Nov 10th 2012, 14:14

@Mr Joseph Carmel Chetcuti
Some of those Roman and Greek gods sometimes required men, women, children or at a minimum animal sacrifice!! Christianity was indeed a revolution because it changed the way people perceived God! Unfortunately clearly till this very day we have people around us who are still not able to be part of that revolution that started 2000 years ago!!

Joseph Aquilina

Nov 10th 2012, 14:17

@Luke Lanzon
At least try to be honest with yourself and see what the Roman Catholic Church did in these last 100 years or so in order to bring peace all over the world!! Without RCC most probably we would not be even here talking because the US and Soviet Union would have fired nuclear missiles at each other!!

Robert Agius

Nov 10th 2012, 15:09

Lol!! yeah right! Religion, including yours has been the scourge of mankind since the damn of civilization. Keep on deluding yourself if it makes you feel better however.

P Bonnici

Nov 10th 2012, 16:08

Mr Joseph Carmel Chetcuti

It is Islam that is imposing its religion on others especially where they are a majority in a country. Many Christians are leaving their homelands as a result.

Mr Joseph Carmel Chetcuti

Nov 10th 2012, 21:29

Joseph, I am part of a revolution. It is called the gay and lesbian revolution that has brought the Roman Catholic hierarchy to its knees. You conveniently overlook the Inquisition. Of course, we all know how the Catholic Church saved the world from nuclear destruction. Absolute nonsense. Revision of history. Again!

Mr Joseph Carmel Chetcuti

Nov 10th 2012, 21:33

I see Islamaphobia is alive and well in Malta. It is not Islam that has brought terrorism but some of its members who think they can impose their 'faith' by force. It is no different from what Christians did during the Inquisition. P Bonnici seems to forget that both Christianity and Islam are monotheistic religions, sharing the same history. Perhaps it's time to return to polytheism.

Joseph Aquilina

Nov 11th 2012, 15:03

@Mr Joseph Carmel Chetcuti
First the Church itself stoped the inquisition when it realised the damage it was doing, secondly you really do not know the amount of work done by the Church in order to ensure that the US and Soviet Union do not start a nuclear war. Third, I know my history, clearly you dont.

Mr Joseph Carmel Chetcuti

Nov 10th 2012, 13:09

Your values. Your identity. Not mine.

David Caruana

Nov 10th 2012, 13:11

Don't use "our" too loosely.

Having the same nationality does not necessarily mean having the same values.

Some cherish the values of tolerance and diversity. Others cherish the values imposed by a 2000-year-old political institution.

Joseph Aquilina

Nov 10th 2012, 13:36

@David Caruana
With your comments you show us you do not mind discrimination against Christians. So let me see, you fight discrimination against gays but then do not mind when discrimination is against Roman Catholics, against Christians!!? Is this the position of AD as well; to close an eye when discrimination is against those who admit to believe in a God!!??

joseph borg st john

Nov 10th 2012, 13:17

jimmy i think you got a bit mixed up there, I think people who want abortion and smokeless cigarettes are not fit to judge anyone let alone Dr Tonio Borg a perfect gentleman backed by both parties.

Jimmy Ventura

Nov 10th 2012, 13:50

Joseph,
Its amazing how you cannot understand simple things. Liberals will not force you to live their way of life on the contrary you are free. On the other hand Christians and Muslims who let their beliefs interfere with authority have no right in free Europe to impose their will. Or you are now for conditioned freedom according to your privileged beliefs.

joseph borg st john

Nov 10th 2012, 14:15

Jimmy as you said it very simple these so called Liberal are free to discriminate any one that is not of the same belief as themselves o k now i understand thanks for your explanation.

Mr Joseph Carmel Chetcuti

Nov 10th 2012, 13:11

You rare Christian. You are Catholic. I am not.

B Attard

Nov 10th 2012, 13:18

Could be you're right. Is this another PN tactic?

Andrew Vella

Nov 10th 2012, 13:26

Almost all Maltese will describe themselves as Carholic. In many cases this is, erm...a load of rubbish...

Joseph Aquilina

Nov 10th 2012, 13:50

@Andrew Vella
I am a Roman Catholic and when I say I am so believe me … it is not rubbish!! It means I RESPECT (a word liberals like you do not even know the meaning) a set of of values and try (because Christians accepts that everyone can make a mistake) to stand by them!!

@B Attard
PN controlling and EU NGO!! There power is limitless!! Please do not make me laugh!

Robert Agius

Nov 10th 2012, 14:55

@Joseph Aquilina

I RESPECT a set of of values and try to stand by them!! You are free to do that anyway. And how is going against the will of the majority (the divorce issue) exactly respect?

Luke Lanzon

Nov 10th 2012, 12:39

No he can be catholic all he wants, but he has to keep it out of politics just as its supposed to be. But apparently its weird for Malta

R Axisa

Nov 10th 2012, 13:11

Amen

J Martinelli

Nov 10th 2012, 13:57

@ Axisa & Lanzon

So, according to you, a politician is supposed to renounce his religious belief in order to be acceptable as a Commissioner in the EU, or, as you put it, to even be a politician at all!
Simply preposterous!

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