Joe Grima resigns in fresh row

Joe Xuereb

Sep 1st 2012, 12:33

Mintoff had one great fault. He was working-class, he was intelligent, and he was vociferous (he rocked the boat of the smug privileged class and the otherwise penniless who aspired to such a status no matter the cost of their integrity). Food for thought!

About the infamous Mintoff years; I was not around so I am not aware of the details as they happened. How come Mintoff was never charged for doing the things he is supposed to have done?! Maybe there was no case against him after all?! Quite likely, he and the hotheads were different entities.

@ Anthony Scicluna(Yesterday, 15:28). Mr. Scicluna, you do not recall, or choose not to, that very Maltese piece of wisdom about not shying away from smearing the face of your oppressor if she/he is brazen enough to smear the palm of your hand with human filth? Maybe you are Maltese under sufferance, Scicluna. Maybe you choose to sacrifice you all our all at the altar of upper middle-class-ness, stiff upper-lip-ness, often described as 'all fur and no knickers'. What in Maltese I would describe as 'kollhom kowtijiet u toqob fil-peduni'. Weġgħana imma mhux permessi jgħidu 'aħħ!' Period (your word not mine).

@ I Mercieca (Yesterday, 17:35). Quote: '.........Jew int kont wieħed minn dawk li akkwistajt fi żmien il-MLP?'(my corrections), unquote.

The terrible years had been long coming; in fact since the 1950s when Archbishop Gonzi, not surprising, overstepped his mark. Then came payback time by natural hotheads who never need much instigation to practise their hotheadedness. I view those so-called turbulent years as a social revolution in order to reverse people's fortunes. Such revolutions had happened before and some stood out to lose. Why have a revolution unless it is to seek justice and retribution. Anybody familiar with the French Revolution and the tragedy of Imperial Russian with its long-suffering serfs living out their misery under a feudal system will know what I mean. Malta's affair was much milder by comparison. Maybe it is a pity that ex-Czechoslovakia's peaceful Rivoluzzjoni Bellusija (Velvet Revolution) did not happen earlier when Mintoff could have used it as a model. That said, Mintoff may be accused of allsorts but how has anything ever been proven? Whatever it was, the events were a true Revolution in style, when some stand to lose and other to gain. That is as it should be otherwise the whole effort would be pointless. What IS good is that whatever Malta benefited through Mintoff's Administration is still extant today. And that was the whole point. Perhaps Mintoff's mistake was his miscalculation about how a deeply(then) Catholic country would cope with a socialist model. I think he was aware of this and he took it on board when the Archbishop and the rest reacted, overreacted. The irony is that Mintoff and what he was about were seen as a threat to the spiritual belief of the country. It is ironic because regardless of the whole MLP affair over a long period, the spiritual belief of the country now is being threatened through other sources. Nobody seems too concerned about this, or voice their feelings. Maybe choose to believe that Socialism is the devil incarnate whereas a devil in a different guise is too near to be ignored. Maybe the class that could make a difference cannot because robust approaches to solving/seeing a problem is against their social class as perceived. And the priest WAS wrong. He is trained to defend and spread and solidify his religion and not foment counter-revolutions.

@ Joe M Borg (Yesterday, 17:59). Quote: 'That he should AT LEAST have shown SOME respect to Mr Mintoff's brother, a religious priest'. Unquote. What an unfortunate choice of word, Mr. Borg, 'religious'. I mean, we all know that SOME(but not all) use their position to suit their evil ways, and some others (certainly not all ) use their position to suit their political agendas. Like Fr. Alex here. I am sure that Mintoff's brother is very religious. Borg, are you one of those people who respect priests at all costs, regardless? Oh dear! Careful now! You could be short-changing yourself something terrible.

Peter Midler

Sep 1st 2012, 12:01

Well done twice Mr Grima:

1. For giving a lesson to a polititian priest.

2. For taking the respectful route -- “I feel that neither you nor the Labour Party should in any way pay a price for what was, in every way, a slip-up which is being turned into one attack after another on you and the party,” Mr Grima wrote, adding that he valued diversity and was “anything but a homophobe”.

“I am therefore leaving Inkontri. In my opinion it is the honourable thing to do under the circumstances. I remain totally dedicated to your cause as Labour leader, to your ideals and to you personally.

“I wish every success. I know that you and our country deserve it.”

That move show political maturity....well done Mr Grima, our country needs more men like you!

Joe Xuereb

Sep 1st 2012, 04:26

About the infamous Mintoff years; I was not around so I am not aware of the details as they happened. How come Mintoff was never charged for doing the things he is supposed to have done?! Maybe there was no case against him after all?! Quite likely, he and the hotheads were different entities.


@ I Mercieca (Yesterday, 17:35). Quote: '.........Jew int kont wieħed minn dawk li akkwistajt fi żmien il-MLP?'(my corrections), unquote.



The terrible years had been long coming; in fact since the 1950s when Archbishop Gonzi, not surprising, overstepped his mark. Then came payback time by natural hotheads who never need much instigation to practise their hotheadedness. I view those so-called turbulent years as a social revolution in order to reverse people's fortunes. Such revolutions had happened before and some stood out to lose. Why have a revolution unless it is to seek justice and retribution. Anybody familiar with the French Revolution and the tragedy of Imperial Russian with its long-suffering serfs living out their misery under a feudal system will know what I mean. Malta's affair was much milder by comparison. Maybe it is a pity that Czechoslovakia's peaceful Velvet Revolution did not happen earlier when Mintoff could have used it as a model. That said, Mintoff may be accused of allsorts but how has anything ever been proven? Whatever it was, the events were a true Revolution in style, when some stand to lose and other to gain. That is as it should be otherwise the whole effort would be pointless. What IS good is that whatever Malta benefited through Mintoff's Administration is still extant today. And that was the whole point. Perhaps Mintoff's mistake was his miscalculation about how a deeply(then) Catholic country would cope with a socialist model. I think he was aware of this and he took it on board when the Archbishop and the rest reacted, overreacted. The irony is that Mintoff and what he was about were seen as a threat to the spiritual belief of the country. It is ironic because regardless of the whole MLP affair over a long period, the spiritual belief of the country now is being threatened through other sources. Nobody seems too concerned about this, or voice their feelings. Maybe choose to believe that Socialism is the devil incarnate whereas a devil in a different guise is too near to be ignored. Maybe the class that could make a difference cannot because robust approaches to solving/seeing a problem is against their social class as perceived. And the priest WAS wrong. He is trained to defend and spread and solidify his religion not revolutions.

Anthony Scicluna

Aug 31st 2012, 15:28

@John Zammit
Do you hear yourself? At all?

That is Old Labour Speak - no wonder you are supporting Joe Grima (m'hemmx indhil barrani). I wonder whether at home you ever comment on the goings on in other countries. Take Syria as an example. If we comment on the disgrace to humanity there is it not "indhil barrani"?

Mr Grima insulted Fr Alex (yes the "priest" has a name) by reverting to vulgarity instead of using constructed argument and debate.

By implication, if either you or Mr Grima offend me then do I have a right to insult you in that manner? The answer is NO and NEVER. Bad behaviour breeds bad behaviour, period.

GL Calleja

Aug 31st 2012, 15:04

Joe Grima is a reminder of the old MLP regime and he showed that very clearly. This is the kind of bad publicity that Dr Joe Muscat and the PL are trying to disassociate themselves from. Mr Grima is a good example of how the old MLP dictated to the people and that kind of attitude does not work anymore. Nobody likes bullies no matter what Party they are affiliated with. The sad part is that both Parties have arrogant Bully Ministers in their midst but somehow our PM keeps looking the other way. The buck stops here, he said.

John Zammit

Aug 31st 2012, 14:08

I feel that what Mr Grima had done was not insulting a priest but answering a seasoned politician dressed in a priest's vest. Being brought up in Malta does not give him the right to interfere in our affairs

Mark A. Sammut

Aug 31st 2012, 13:20

An angry man, Mr Grima.

Anger is bad counsel.

Mr J Xerri

Aug 31st 2012, 13:07

Let's wait and see... surely the PN strategists will think of something new to keep harking about this story. As I said before this is a way to try to evade real issues.. like that of the resignation of Prof Stephen Brincat, the cancer chief.

Mark A. Sammut

Aug 31st 2012, 13:00

Well done Dr Muscat.

A Montebello

Aug 31st 2012, 12:56

Not only were the the comments about RCC'S non existent villa not removed, Grima repeats them on the times online when responding to a comment posted under the article announcing his resignation. That can never be removed.
It seems to me that Grima really does not understand how the Internet works!

A Tonna

Aug 31st 2012, 12:50

This is a prime difference between PL and PN. PL take responsibility for his actions, even though Joe Grima does not form a part of PL anymore. PN doesn't !

Joe Xuereb

Aug 31st 2012, 12:44

@ donald borg (Today, 10:08). Sur Borg, il-għajb għall-Malti meta jipprova jikteb bil-Malti u nindunaw li la jaf jitkellem bil-Malti sew aħseb u ara kemm jaf jiktbu! Nista' naċċertak li kelma 'pastaża' spiss tindika karattru sod filwaqt li taqbdu bil-kartu spiss juri karattru dgħajjef u mingħajr sinsla. Bħal meta npaċpċu fil-vojt fuq 'par idejn sodi'. L-idejn sodi huma sodi bil-fatti u mhux bil-kliem fieragħ u bla sens u bil-qerq (bħal tijatru mingħajr saqaf, eċċ., eċċ., eċċ., biex niftehmu!).

Gerry Cowie

Aug 31st 2012, 11:55

The selective loyal blindness and brick wall approach of some never ceases to amaze! The PL party leader himself has spoken and even that is not good enough for F.Mercieca! What F. Mercieca forgets is that "The English priest" was brought up in Malta and saw first hand what went on.
Nobody can defend what is wrong, so PL cannot stand up and say that all its history is clean and tidy!
Try facts and realism instead of glorifying for the sake of it!

Mr J Xerri

Aug 31st 2012, 11:17

Let's wait and see... surely the PN strategists will think of something new to keep harking about this story. As I said before this is a way to try to evade real issues.. like that of the resignation of Prof Stephen Brincat, the cancer chief.

Ms L Dimech

Aug 31st 2012, 11:11

“I feel that neither you nor the Labour Party should in any way pay a price for what was, in every way, a slip-up which is being turned into one attack after another on you and the party,” Mr Grima wrote

Don't kid yourself JG - nobody is blaming either Muscat or the party. Don't try using this mantra, the Maltese people have come a very long way. They are blaming YOU and your big mouth and according to your previous post, that was no slip-up but a very stupid deliberate knee jerk reaction over which you should have known better but to react in that way. You were never really big in anybody's eyes, but this has set you back quite a few blocks, if that's the only way you can respond to crtiticism.

If all the good Mintoff did in his lifetime has to be taken seriously and remembered as part of our history, you cannot try to pretend that the bad times never happened, or blame it on a 'very high temperature he was running' at the time, according to your Dr. Vella!.

Mintoff did everything the hard way - he worked hard, he played hard and he stumbled hard. If you, of all people, who was part of his inner circle cannot face that, that I truly fear that no lessons have been learnt by anyone of you, who are by far on a much, much lesser standing than was Mintoff.

It's time that Joseph Muscat clears out the debris in the party who are still hanging on to the bravado they were involved in in the 80's like they were the golden years - outside of all social services they were mostly shameful years, hopefully never to be repeated.

Karl Consiglio

Aug 31st 2012, 11:04

This calls for a celebration.

John Portelli

Aug 31st 2012, 10:55

What a world we live in you can't even speak your mind.

Joseph Cauchi Senior

Aug 31st 2012, 10:41

What Fr. Lucie-Smith wrote, was the truth, the whole truth but nothing but the truth!

So, if you disagree with this ‘truth’ you should attack the argument and prove otherwise; but not attack the messenger of truth with vulgar and obscene language!

Or as they say, LA VERITAˋ OFFENDE!

JC.

donald borg

Aug 31st 2012, 10:08

Diskors baxx mhu tajjeb ghal hadd. Ghajb ghal minn jghidu jigi minn fejn naha jigi.Kif tuza l-ilsien juri x'karatru int. Malta zghira u in-nies marghufa.

Thomas C. Cassar

Aug 31st 2012, 09:50

Prosit Dr. Muscat, ara haddiehor beza jikkundanna l-moqzizati li nkitbu fuq il-Perit Mintoff, Guido Demarco u ohrajn.

F. Mercieca

Aug 31st 2012, 09:46

Well, Joe Grima's words were inappropriate. But Joe Grima has nothing to be ashamned of. If someonbe shyould be ashamed it is the Priest who on Mintoff's death wrote those words which after all were misleading. The English Priest forgot perhaps that the Maltese Catholic Church on two seperate occasions had asked for apology for the Cchburch shortcomings during the past years. The Priest's manners showed that he is not christian after all. Is that what Jesus Christ preached? Certasinly not. So if there is somebody who should be ashamed and do an apology, it is not Joe Grima but the Priest. As regards the PL I want to dsay this. The Pl should defend the Party's past. History shows that the LP have a very strong and glorious past. It is the PN that should be ashamed of the past. If the PN choose to mention the past, the PL should enphasize on the present and the future, but syhould not ignore the past. The PL should be proud of the past.

Patrick Zammit

Aug 31st 2012, 09:44

Molehill Mountain...

Ms Xaxa Caruana

Aug 31st 2012, 09:36

So Muscat did his part and Joe Grima is out, next step? Gonzi.....when will you decide to wake up?