Updated: Sceberras Trigona’s article was ‘academic’ - Muscat
PN: Muscat's defence 'shameful and insensitive'
Updated - Adds PN reaction
Labour leader Joseph Muscat has sidestepped the implications of an article penned by his international secretary, Alex Sceberras Trigona, saying the piece claiming the government had lost its “constitutional legality” was an academic exercise.
Asked if Dr Sceberras Trigona’s analysis reflected his position, Dr Muscat said he would rather focus on the political implications of the current “unsustainable” scenario and added that it was up to the Prime Minister to make the necessary decisions.
Dr Sceberras Trigona’s was “a good academic exercise”, Dr Muscat said.
In the article in question, published in The Times yesterday, Dr Sceberras Trigona argued that Jeffrey Pullicino Orlando’s recent resignation from the Nationalist parliamentary group had effectively deprived the government of its wafer thin majority of some 1,500 votes and the premise upon which it was granted four extra seats to be able to govern.
“Malta now has an undemocratic government. It arrogantly defies the very first article of the Constitution which stipulates that ‘Malta is a democratic republic…’” he wrote.
In the 2008 election, the Nationalist Party won with a relative majority of 49.3 per cent against Labour’s 48.8 per cent but had to be compensated with four extra seats through a special provision of the Constitution, given that it gained only 31seats (three fewer than Labour) because of the way the votes got distributed on the districts.
In essence, Dr Sceberras Trigona argued that this Administration did not deserve these four extra seats it got in 2008 given that it lost its relative majority with Dr Pullicino Orlando’s defection.
But the dean of the Faculty of Law, Kevin Aquilina said the argument did not hold much water from a legal point of view.
“What happened in the 2008 election is past now,” Prof. Aquilina said, stressing that one could not re-evaluate the results of the election and the implications on the seats awarded to the PN in light of the present political circumstances.
He pointed out that Dr Pullicino Orlando declared that he would support the government on the implementation of the electoral programme and would expect to be consulted on anything else.
“The only thing that would change the present scenario legally is if Dr Pullicino Orlando changes his mind” and votes in a way that brings down the government, he said.
This line of thought was shared by former PN president and now Alternattiva Demokratika spokesman Carmel Cacopardo, who argued in his blog that the government’s legitimacy rightly or wrongly emerged exclusively from the result of the 2008 election.
Electoral Commissioner Saviour Gauci, who Dr Sceberras Trigona suggested should perhaps look into the matter, argued that there was nothing in the Constitution or the electoral law that empowered the commission to take action.
PN SEES MUSCAT REACTION AS 'SHAMFUL'
The Nationalist Party this morning said Dr Muscat’s description of Alex Sceberras Trigona’s article as a ‘good academic exercise’ was shameful and insensitive.
"It proves how Labour won’t work, and that with the likes of Alex Sceberras Trigona, and Karmenu Vella, of course, it will take the country 30 years back." the party said.
It said Alex Sceberras Trigona was a prominent minister in a government that ruled Malta, for five years, against the will of the people. He was Minister in successive labour governments’ that ruled Malta with an iron fist – suppressing freedom of expression , and crushing the hopes, and ruining the lives, of thousands of young men and women.
"Instead of showing him the door, Muscat promoted Sceberras Trigona to the very important role of Labour’s International Secretary - and now, following Sceberras Trigona’s unbelievable statement that the democratically elected Nationalist Government is ‘undemocratic, Muscat defends his man and describes the article as ‘a good academic exercise’.
"This is proof of how insensitive Muscat is. He wants us to believe that his party has changed, and that it has now become a ‘progressive movement’- which is really not the case. Labour remains the same, and it won’t work," the PN said.
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Francis Saliba M.D.
Aug 9th 2012, 21:36
It would be very useful if some LP authority would explain what Joseph Muscat meant exactly when he downplayed AST's magnum opus as a mere academic exercise.
Evarist Saliba
Aug 9th 2012, 19:17
Just a few comments:
Writing that the Nationalist Party was "awarded" or "donated" a number of extra seats following the last election is a perverse reflection of the truth. The Nationalist Party was "legally entitled" to those seats in terms of the law enacted with the consent of both political parties represented in parliament. It is my experience that Dr Alex Sceberras Trigona is a master of spin where he deflects the truth, and then makes it the basis of his further arguments.
Electoral Commissioner Saviour Gauci is reported to have said that the Electoral Commission was not "empowered" to study what is now being presented as an academic study by Sceberrad Trigona. More accurately, there is no "legal justificatuon" for the Commission to do so.
Joseph Muscat did not promote Alex Sceberras Trigona to his present post in the Labour Party hierarchy. He is responsible for inviting the old timers of the 80's notorious era to come back, and it is the party membership that elected Sceberras Trigona to his present post. Therein lies the danger for the future. It is the core of the Labour Party, misled by Joseph Muscat, that is "brazenly" embracing the misdeeds of the past.
Eddy Privitera
Aug 9th 2012, 15:50
GonziPN apologists keep mentioning the " Foreign Interference Act" introduced by a Labour government in the 1970s - and still in existence after 25 years of a PN government . Surely the "Foreign Interference " treaty signed by Eddie Fenech Adamin on 16 April 2003 , when he signed the EU Treaty accession, is by far much worse !!!
Just to mention one aspect of "foreign interference" - THE BUDGET WHICH IS PREPARED BY GONZIPN MUST BE APPROVED BY THE EU COMMISSION !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Joe Tabone
Aug 9th 2012, 16:28
@ Edy,
Edy, can you just clarify one point for us, assuming J Muscat will be PM in a few months time would anything change regarding Budget Tresholds regulated by the EU?
Does JM intend changing the EU Accession Treaty??
Emanuel Curmi
Aug 9th 2012, 17:19
@Dear Mr. Privitera. Getting the Budget controlled by the EU Commission is hardly such a bad thing. After all, overspending is not in our own nations interest and politicians are notoriously prone to use the nation funds extremely liberally especially when trying to win voters sympathies. Apart from that, don't you think this hysteria about foreign interference should be taken in the right context rather than fermenting an anti foreign sentiment for the wrong reasons. Malta has become a member of the EU since 2004 but our mentality is still one of a island folk rather than European. You are right that the PN apologists cannot criticize an Act which the government could have easily amended after 25 years in power but as a PL apologist, you are criticizing sound EU principles which the PL itself has eventually accepted and fully endorsed. Honestly, this mud slinging is so infantile and only serves to show how partisan politics can stoop so low and distort facts and figures.
Tony Camilleri
Aug 9th 2012, 18:28
Thumbs up Eddy
Francis Saliba M.D.
Aug 9th 2012, 21:28
@ Eddy Privitera today at 15:50.
The Malta government budgets, NP or LP would be expected to be within the EU guide lines so that the deficit would continue to approach set limits. Evidently you are convinced that that would be a "foreign interference" within the meaning of the Foreign Interference Act.
Please, do tell us! Are we to conclude that you are some authority inside the Labour Party who has been assigned the hot potato task of leaking gently the horrendous news that your party, if elected, intends to take Malta out of the European Union and the Eurozone so as to conform with the Foreign Interference Act?
Steve M. Engerer
Aug 9th 2012, 21:47
Dr Joseph Muscat ihambaq kemm sar pro-ewropew u Eddy Privitera ihambaq kemm ma jahmilx lil Unjoni ...
Min jaf kemm jiehu pjacir bil kummenti tieghek Eddy, il-Leader Joseph Muscat.. :-)
LABOUR WONT CHANGE!!!
Eddy Privitera
Aug 10th 2012, 18:28
Francis Saliba u Joe Tabone: Jien m'ghandi ebda kariga fil-PL u lanqas ma jien delegat. Jigifieri li nikteb jien, hu biss l-opinjonin tieghi u mhux tal-partit ! Bhal ma nemmen li dak li tikteb int ma jirrapprezentax dejjem il-linja jew il-policy ta' GonziPN !
Rigward " indhil barrani", semmejt biss il-budget. Illum nahseb li 80 fil-mija tal-ligijiet li dahlu gew decizi mill-barranin ta' Brussels , u kellna bilfors indahhluhom, irridu u ma rridux ! Naturalment il-gvern dan qatt mhu se jammettih ! Nerga nghid, dan qed nghidu jien f'ismi u f'isem hadd aktar, hlief dawk li jaqblu mieghi dwar dan !
Eddy Privitera
Aug 10th 2012, 20:02
Steve Engerer: Dr. MUscat jaf sewwa l-pozizzjoni tieghi dwar l-UE bhal ma jien naf tieghu u tal-partit. B'daqshekk ma jfissirx li ghax jien ghandi opinjoni differenti, allura ma naqbilx mal-policies l-ohra kollha tal-PL.
Huwa -Lawrence Gonzi , meta ffaccjat bi gwerra-civili fil-partit tieghu, qal li dak ifisser li GonziPN huwa " qawsalla ta'idejat " , qed tistghageb li jien ghandi opinjoni differenti dwar l-UE ??
j brincat
Aug 9th 2012, 15:46
@Anthony Scicluna
"JB, the problem remains that the same people who took away everyone's rights in the 1980s grace the labour line-up"
Do you know what your problem is?
I wouldn't suppose so.
That you are dead silent about those persons that took control of the PN.
I give an advice for free - not like the consultants who earn thousand of euro annually out of my (and supposingly so) your taxpayer's money - take a look at Dr Franco blog and you would be amazed about the democratic credentials of this country!!!
(jb)
j brincat
Aug 9th 2012, 15:38
Mr Edward Caruana Galizia
"Like the PN's response said, we don't need to take lessons about democracy from a party that was anything but democratic when it was in government, when Sceberras Trigona was there."
AND as I said yesterday (not the Bealte's masterpiece) that once elected to power EFA's PN and then GonziPN did NOT sever the ties with both China (of Tiemann Square's fame) not with North Korea!
And I also asked yesterday "Who was the last Western dignitary to hug or kiss Gaddfafi- the Libyan Dictator?
So what is the PN (or its acolytes) talking about, for Pete's sake?
Do they (the PN Trolls versus the PL elves) really take us ALL for imbeciles!!
How they would like to but......................
(jb)
C. Bonnici
Aug 9th 2012, 15:15
We have Dr Aquilina's view, which I respect. But I'd be very interested in reading an ethicist's view about this. It's not as simple as it seems to be. The question is: is it right to grant four extra seats in special circumstances? The current situation MIGHT imply that such rule is at least problematic. Therefore I agree with Dr Muscat, Trigona's is an interesting exercise.
Maria Caruana
Aug 9th 2012, 15:09
Vote Muscat and get Muscat + AST; Karmenu Vella; Leo Brincat; Joe Debono Grech; Evarist Bartolo; Toni Abela; Jason Micallef; Manuel Mallia; Jose' Herrera and Luciano Busuttil. Maaaaa!
Victor Laiviera
Aug 9th 2012, 15:35
And if you vote GonziPN you get Austin Gatt. So, on balance, we are still better off with Labour. :)
Frans Aguis
Aug 9th 2012, 14:46
Shame on the local media for trying to stir up fake controversy to distract us from the fact that we do not have a legitimate government!
Lesley Darmanin
Aug 9th 2012, 15:40
Actually Malta has a legitimate government. It is Alex Sceberras Trigona who belonged to an illegitimate government in the eighties. Also, the "local media" did not stir up anything, it was Sceberras Trigona who stirred it all up through his offensive piece. Anyone who lived the hell of the eighties under Labour would know what I am talkinng about and why Sceberras Trigona's now so called academic piece (how pathetic) is so provocative and insulting. His very presence within the Labour Party is an insult and an eye-opener.
The Malta Labour Party (MLP) is the same old crap it always was - partit mibni fuq il-lanziet, fuq l-ghira, fuq klassi ta' nies ghajjaurin ghal min huwa ahjar minnhom. Partit mibni fuq il-mibeghda tal-klassi. Partit mibni fuq il-hdura. U dalwaqt ser jkunu fil-gvern u din id-darba warbilhom - They will be back with a vengence. As former police inspector new deputy leader Anglu Farrugia said - "Ghadkom ma tafux x'gej ghalikhom!"
Francis Zammit
Aug 9th 2012, 14:08
Meet the real labour party
Marija Falzon
Aug 9th 2012, 13:47
Unfortunately many people here write passionately instead of rationally.
In a democratic country the law of the land should be observed. Laws are made by people and they
are not perfect. They should be changed to the better if democracy is to prevail.
Now let’s go back in history to have a quick look at the electoral laws of Malta.
Early last century only people of the male gender who owned property could vote. Was this
democratic? Who changed it? Strickland and Labour. So one point goes to them.
Mid last century only men could vote. Was this democratic? Definitely not. Who changed it? Labour
changed it. Another point goes to Labour.
Early and mid last century the church could impose mortal sin during elections as it did against
Strickland and Labour. Was this democratic? The church apologized. Labour amended the law
against this. Another point for Labour.
Early 1970 the PN government gerrymandered the districts some electing 5 members and some
electing 6 members. Though Labour won confortably, they won one district with the minimum
number of votes. The PN kept on contesting the result as they claimed that the it was the number
of candidates elected that counts and not the votes the parties get. One point down to the PN. It
seems that many PNers do not remember this documented fact.
In the seventy’s Labour lowered the voting age against the opposition of the PN from twenty one
years to eighteen years. One point to Labour and down one point to the PN.
In the mid 1980 the Labour gerrymanderd the districts and managed to get elected with a minority
of votes. One point down to Labour.
In the late 1980 Labour with the collaboration of the PN changed the electoral law so that the party
that gets the majority of votes will govern. One point to Labour and one point to the PN.
Since then minor improvements to the electoral law have been made with the collaboration of both
parties. More refinements may be required.
Considering the whole picture from the last century up to this day and not just a short period in time
Labour has by far more democratic credentials than the PN.
Mark Spiteri
Aug 9th 2012, 14:45
Who governed against the will of the majority of voters...Labour did...thats surpasses by far all the scores you gave in favour of the MLP.
david xerri
Aug 9th 2012, 15:23
very well said marija falzon, agree with you 100%, its just that Gonzi PN is trying to scare the electorate, since its their only card in hand !
A Trapani
Aug 9th 2012, 15:24
..... some nice history and you may be correct... but..... unfortunately for labour.....democracy is not just an electoral measure. There were several undemocratic and inhumane occurances which you didnt mention and which occured while labour democratically improved electoral legistlations.
Eddy Privitera
Aug 9th 2012, 15:54
Mark Spiteri; And who is running the local councils of Mosta and Floriana, where Labour got hthe majority of votes in both localities , and GonziPN got a minority of votes ? Come on, say it !
Joe Tabone
Aug 9th 2012, 16:36
@ Edy,
The PL did NOT obtain an absolute majority of votes in Floriana, neither did PN, that's why there is an Independent Mayor.
Francis Saliba M.D.
Aug 10th 2012, 08:17
@ David Xerri, yesterday at 15:23.
The Nationalist Party is not trying the scare the electorate. The truth is obviously scary enough for those who lived through it and for their unsuspecting children force fed on the pap of MLP propaganda lies and deceit..
Eddy Privitera
Aug 10th 2012, 19:56
Joe Tabone. Neither did GonziPn get the majority of votes in the 2008 election, and also got a minority of seats. And yet, GonziP was given 4 extra seats so as to enable it to govern ! Now that GonziPN has LOST 1 seat - and the 5,000 odd votes that voted for that deputy - it still wants to keep governing ! Even if "legally" it can still govern, morally it shouldn't !
j brincat
Aug 9th 2012, 13:43
@Edgar Gatt
"Dr. Alfred Sant was right when he got rid of the likes of AST, Joe Grima etc."
Did you say so then?
You know how vilified Dr Sant (the master of Democracy) was - were you one to come out in his defence?
Wouldn't think so - this post is just another by the PN Trolls (to keep on the same wavelenght/mythology of the 'elves') made simply for political convenience!
These days it takes more to impress!
(jb)
Edgar Gatt
Aug 9th 2012, 15:28
Everybody said at that time that it was the only good thing that Alfred Sant did, me included. Re his other credentials, well after 22 months about 20,000 voters who voted for him voted against him. So really that is good enough reason to say that he messed up things big time.
Francis Saliba M.D.
Aug 10th 2012, 10:08
@ j brincat yesterday at 13:43.
There was no need for Edgar Gatt, or for anybody else, to go public and approve what was obviously a move in the right direction when A Sant pushed aside its violent elements. The ominous silence was that from inside a disapproving MLP that soon after reversed that meritorious decision by re-installing the violent element under the tutelage of Joseph Muscat
Sant was criticised for something else, for example the VAT removal fiasco.
Angelo Vassallo
Aug 9th 2012, 13:40
@ R Psaila
Fl-1996 il-Partit Laburista mmexxi minn Dr. Alfred Sant rebah bi 3813-il vot aktar mill-partiti l-ohra u mhux b'aktar minn 7000 vot kif ghidt int, Ir-rizultat kien 132497 MLP - 124864 PN - 3820 AD; li jfisser maggoranza ta' 3813.
Dan ifisser li l-partit lejburista gab 50.7%l li f'termini ta' siggijiet jigu 35 (34.983)
X'tippretendi li b'50.7 fil-mija tal-voti validi jkollok aktar min 50.7 fil-mija tas-siggijiet!
A Cachia
Aug 9th 2012, 13:56
u it 3820 li ivvutaw lil Alternattiva?
X'inhuma? Nies li ma jezistux fil-pajjiz?
john muscat
Aug 9th 2012, 14:12
Bl'istess argument tieghek int qed tghid li l-PN la mandux nofs il magguranza li kellu il- PL m'ghandux ikollu 3 siggijiet izjed, mhux hekk Sur Ang.?
Martin Mangion
Aug 9th 2012, 13:38
The PN 's reaction is no surprise at all. What is shameful is how eager is our Prime Minister to hold on to power. That is indeed shamful.
It is the PN government that is NOT WORKING and WILL NOT WORK - The party has been hijacked by a clique of a few people - this I am quoting from his own people.
Their time is up - Lawrence Gonzi's time is over. The clock has long started ticking. By tryiing to find half plausible excuses to instill fear of a new Labour government is useless and baseless. The people should fear from another PN government. However, I am sure that the absolute majority of the people will seal the PN government fate in the next general election. The more days that are passing, the more it looks like our PM will have to call an early election. The pill of losing a money bill in parliament will be hard to swallow - the pill is already out of its box.
Francis Saliba M.D.
Aug 9th 2012, 14:02
The Prime Minister is holding on to a power that rightly belongs to him and that was assigned to his party by a democratically held general election, whose mandate has still some months to run because supported by votes of confidence and because he has not exercised his right to recommend an early election.
Why do blinkered Labour diehards find it so difficult to swallow that plain, undisputed fact?
C. Bonnici
Aug 9th 2012, 15:56
@Francis Saliba MD: Your comment made sense. Eloquently expressed, and accurate. I agreed.
Until you wrote the last sentences, which has the following flaws, amongst others:
A. You're labelling Mr Mangion blinkered diehard labour. Did it cross your mind he might actually be right? Don't you think that GonziPN is actually problematic? If you don't then you're probably ignoring what FD, JPO and others insist. You should remember that FD, JPO and JM were also elected democratically. Their word is more weighty than you seem to assume.
B. You're wrong because what what you wrote is fact, it is not undisputed. Neither is it the only fact, as explained in (A) above.
As you can see, it is all blinkered eyes that should be opened ;-)
Francis Saliba M.D.
Aug 9th 2012, 21:03
@ C Bonnici today at 15:56
YOU are wrong because I did not accuse Martin Mangion of anything - I made a general statement without mentioning names, The rest of your comment collapses into irrelevant questions and conjectures about what I could possibly think.
C. Bonnici
Aug 10th 2012, 00:21
@ Francis Saliba M.D. today at 21:03:
It's okay to be opinionated, don't worry. Strictly speaking, you have a point: the law is what it is. But I sustain that what you wrote (in Francis Saliba M.D., Today, 14:02) is heroic, given PN's situation with FD, JM and JPO.
In my humble opinion you simply fail to see that those you refer to as "blinkered" (whoever they are, since you now claim you didn't direct the comment to anyone in particular), might actually have a point. Your biggest assumption is that as long as something is legal, it is politically correct. And you call everyone who rejects your assumption: blinkered.
Francis Saliba M.D.
Aug 10th 2012, 09:49
@ C. Bonnici today at 00:21.
Thank you for your many points of agreement.
The "blinkered" are NOT those who disagree with me. They are those who refuse to see facts that are obvious to the unbiased.
My assumption is NOT what you say it is. It is that political correctness and legality are not always morally correct also. Do me a favour and, please, do not attribute to me anything different.
C. Bonnici
Aug 10th 2012, 11:45
@ Francis Saliba M.D. Today, 09:49:
I'm afraid I'll not do you that favour. Indeed, I believe your assumption is what I said it is. And please DO US ALL a favour, and don't instruct us on what to write.
Francis Saliba M.D.
Aug 10th 2012, 15:20
@ C Bonnici, today at 11;45.
You don't understand anything, do you!
1) You cannot possibly know what I think, better than I do myself. obvious ain't it!
2) I have no intention to instruct you how and what to write. You write whichever way you can and I reserve the right to reply if I am in the mood (and that is most of the time).
3) You are not at all smart when you to insist that you will not do me the favour of not attributing to me assumptions that are not true.
You condemn yourself by your own indiscreet words - if only you understood their import.
C. Bonnici
Aug 10th 2012, 16:49
@Francis Saliba M.D. Today, 15:20:
You're quite persistent in your mistakes. I comment about the assumptions intrinsic in your writing, not about what you think. This will be all from my side.
m. borg (slm)
Aug 9th 2012, 13:37
Apologists are criticizing AST for the Foreign Interference act .
Look what Foreign Interference has got us into today, that is what you have to contemplate about.
ALBERT FENECH
Aug 9th 2012, 13:37
"But the dean of the Faculty of Law, Kevin Aquilina said the argument did not hold much water from a legal point of view.
“What happened in the 2008 election is past now,” Prof. Aquilina said, stressing that one could not re-evaluate the results of the election and the implications on the seats awarded to the PN in light of the present political circumstances."
Yet, and yet, the GonziPN is intent on bringing up what happened 30 years ago and is attempting to castigate AST on the same premise.
Dr Aquilina should address his comments to the GonziPN dinosaurs creaking and squelching about in the distant past as if this will impress the electorate of today.
ALBERT FENECH
m. borg (slm)
Aug 9th 2012, 13:28
Let's us suppose that as soon as the electoral results were known JPO declared that he would go independent then gonzipn would not have had the 49.8% but 48.5% which would have left gonzipn with 5 (4 according to constitution + 1 JPO's) seats less than labour and even asa n independent JPO declared his alliance to gonzipn it would still made no difference in the number of seats for gonzipn and Labour would have governed with a majority of 4.
So what difference is there now that JPO has gone indipendent, i n fact gonzipn should decrease his number of seats by 4 those given by the constitutional ammendment as he now only has 48.5% of the votes.
George Cutajar
Aug 9th 2012, 13:24
Once again JM has shot himself in the foot. It looks like he is proud of the MLP's past and at every opportunity he gets he simply cannot admit that the MLP's very recent past was a disaster for our country.
Saying that one is progressive and moderate is one thing. Showing it with facts is another and JM is failing each time. What his movement has done is blotted out the KMB and Alfred Sant eras as if they never existed and looks at the Mintoff years as the years of gold.
How can Labour work? The justification of the Mintoff years as the years of gold is a sign that Labour will not and cannot work.
m. borg (slm)
Aug 9th 2012, 13:22
"......... should have called it a day ages ago – a political dinosaur of the worst type"
Is gonzipn refering to Dr Eddy Fenech Adami who as an ex-President of Malta should have done like all other ex-Presidents and steered clear of partisan politics.
Paul Cassar
Aug 9th 2012, 13:22
FACTS:
A government with 1,500 majority (not even half a quota), with 3 WAYWARD MPs, PARLIAMENTrarely meeting and with extremely long breaks, with bust finances and all assets sold and still heavily in debt, with the eu statistics showing serious deficiencies............................
and the Prime Ministers still smiling around and saying everything is fine...........MALTA TODAY
David Spiteri
Aug 9th 2012, 13:21
iron fist, suppressing freedom of expression, crushing the hopes ...
FACT: The 1981 Labour government was no less legal than today's government.
FACT: The 1981 Labour government accepted to change the rules to the fairer ones we have today
What iron fist???
Do you think that nowadays people who speak against the government are treated like those who speak in favour? Do you think they have the same chance to be given chairmanships like that of MEPA? So is one truly free to speak his/her mind?
And hope ... how is our education system doing? OK, we are paying millions to contractors to build new schools, institutes, etc. But what results are we getting? How do we compare with others? Recently I was reminded of my O/A-level days. I imagined telling my parents back then: "I have been successful! I got 3 Es!" (Nowadays grades 6, 7, D, E are considered success.)
T Mifsud
Aug 9th 2012, 13:30
David I dont know how old you are but the iron fist was referring not to political debacles but to violence institutionalised and government sponsored too. These led to several great injustices, political police, people out of work, school children in garages, ransacking, burning, injured people and deaths. Those were the 80s.
If you were not their I dont blame you to write what you wrote.
John Scerri
Aug 9th 2012, 13:08
Imissu AST ghamlu fit-tmeninjiet l-ezercizzju ''Akkademiku'' u kien forsi jehles lil poplu minn jasar kbir li sofra ghal 5 snin u 6 xhur shah waqt li AST u l-gvern tieghu baqghu imkahhla mal poter ikasbru drittijiet ta` l-espressjoni, ta` l-ghazla, tal- moviment tan nies .
Jekk Dr.Muscat bhala mexxej tal partit jappoggja dak li qal AST fil-milja kollu tieghu mela vera l-partit Laburista baqa dak li kien wara dan iz zmien kollu .
Hasra li ma tghallimx minn dak u minn dawk li tant telliflu success tul is- snin.
Hasra li ma hemmx alternattiva serja ghal biex il-poplu ikun mohhu mistrieh jekk jaqleb il-folja.
Miskina Malta u L-Maltin .
Edgar Gatt
Aug 9th 2012, 13:03
Dr. Alfred Sant was right when he got rid of the likes of AST, Joe Grima etc. Now Joseph Muscat got them back and he has to face the music. Definitely not sweet music to all floating voters.
jason gatt
Aug 9th 2012, 13:02
Faculty of Law, Kevin Aquilina said the argument did not hold much water from a legal point of view.
says it all BUT gentlemen Sceberras Trigona pionted out somthing that the PN should be more careful at what it says remeber you are the defender of democracy after 1981 elections and the Pn said He should be in power and still says so but the argument did not hold much water from a legal point of view at that either .do you see the legal point of view or the democratic one.
Angelo Vassallo
Aug 9th 2012, 13:01
Dr Sceberras Trigona’s was “a good academic exercise”, Dr Muscat said.
With the above-mentioned 'shameful and insensitive' statement coming from the leader of the opposition, I now wonder and question what academic credentials "dear leader" joseph muscat himself has
j brincat
Aug 9th 2012, 12:51
"
@Anthony Scicluna
"the only way is up, up and away from Labour"
The proof of the pudding is in the eating!
From experience we know fully well what stuff GonziPN is really made of.
After promising manna on earth he won by a whisper and his 101 promises remain (on the eve of the election) unfulfilled!
So it would soon be 'up and away' for GonziPN - thanks God!
(jb)
Anthony Scicluna
Aug 9th 2012, 14:02
JB, the problem remains that the same people who took away everyone's rights in the 1980s grace the labour line-up. And, history repeats itself: in the mid 80s labour had an unelected leader. JM remains unelected. No voter backing whatsoever. This truth is what irks you most. The truth that you are way better off today than you ever way under labour also annoys you. I wouldn't mind a change for the better. BUT with the present labour line-up it will be voting for the Labour of 1981. And, that is scarier than anything else. Or maybe you are too blind to see that
Mark Zerafa
Aug 9th 2012, 12:43
No, not academic but an obvious embarassment to the Labour Party. I harbour no sympathies for the current administration but people like AST are a huge setback to the LP's efforts to distance itself from the dictatorial regime of the 70's and 80's. Changing the Party's initials from MLP to LP and sporting a new logo will not exorcise the party's image unless it is also purged of elements of the ilk of AST, a grim reminder of those dark and gloomy years.
Francis Saliba M.D.
Aug 9th 2012, 12:39
Alex Sceberras Trigona making an academic exposition in the lay press about democracy with his record as a Foreign Minister at the time of the Mintoff government? You could have fooled me had I not lived and suffered under that unforgettable and disastrous experience!
anton murcia
Aug 9th 2012, 12:28
If the people want political change, let them have it. They can't reverse this change, however, if they feel worse off at the end of five months as the term is for five long years. I for one would not risk bringing in the political demons of the ancient socialist regime ( allied with the murderous North Korean regime) with which the labour leader has surrounded himself and against whose strong leverage he can do little.
Both parties have arrogant people in their midst, but again if change is what many people want it should be for the better, not for a worse general situation.
Mr Andrew Camilleri
Aug 9th 2012, 12:24
Once again, no comment on the article by GonziPN. I wish they would comment on it rather than throw the usual boring cliches around. Oh, of course, I just realisd that ehy will be getting help from their friends in the media.
Reuben D. Spiteri
Aug 9th 2012, 12:21
If the PL keeps this up it is going to hand over the election to the PN on a silver platter. Not that I care much but so far JM hasn't said anything appealing while remaining realistic.
Ms Rudi Mcbeal
Aug 9th 2012, 12:10
Unbelievable!
One must not forget that these are the people who are going to be leading our country in the near future.
Anthony Scicluna
Aug 9th 2012, 11:26
the only way is up, up and away from Labour
David Meilak
Aug 9th 2012, 11:25
Academic? What would the man that piloted the Foreign Interference Act like to teach us now? This man and the rest of his cronies from the Mintoff era are the worst mistake that Muscat has made. Winning or losing the upcoming general election is not the issue here, what matters is that by accepting the likes of AST, Debono Grech, Karmenu Vella etc is clear proof that Muscat has nothing against the way that politics in the 70's and 80's was conducted.
If Muscat's so called movement was a business entity, a management team that proved to be disasterous in the past would never be trusted with the company's future again. But Muscat's acceptance of these ghosts from the past is clear proof that the past of the 80's is what the future will bring. This is why the LP does not want us to mention the past. But how can we forget the past, when the LP is presenting the past to us again and again?
Victor Laiviera
Aug 9th 2012, 11:24
The bottom line is that we have a government that cannot even breathe without getting permission from one or more of its disgruntled MPs (perhaps I should say ex-MPs).
The rest is waffle, diversionary tactics and, as we say in Maltese, "bżar fl-għajnejn".
Mr G Naudi
Aug 9th 2012, 11:49
Dear Mr. Laiviera, with your statement, "The bottom line is that we have a government that cannot even breathe without getting permission from one or more of its discruntled MPs", you have just proved that what you wish for Malta is a dictatorship and not a democratic state. Yes, every Prime Minister has to get permission from its MPs except if you live in North Korea, China, Venezuela and other such dictatorial states!
T Mifsud
Aug 9th 2012, 12:21
That is not the bottom line. The bottom line is really disgraceful, that the opposition is a problem for the country, that it has candidates from the time of the Labour violence, that it has no concrete plans spelt out clearly for Malta, that it has no experience at all, and worst of all now, that the leader is defending the very people he should have rid the PL of in the first place. The PL is still not an alternative government
Richard Caruana
Aug 9th 2012, 13:24
It's clear as crystal that JM has lost all control over his party even before we go to the elections.
Being apologetic in this way after the barrage that AST received yesterday shows that he has no control on what's going on... not to mention Jason Micallef stirring the pot as well!
Carl Borg
Aug 9th 2012, 11:22
'political dinosaurs' - how very true! Labour won't work - it will take Malta 30 years backwards
Eddy Privitera
Aug 9th 2012, 11:21
Isn't Dr. Eddie Fenech Adami a " political dinosaurus" too ? He is much older than AST, and has been condemned by the court for breaching the human rights of. Camilleri who used to work at the Dingli computer centre ! He also keeps getting involved in the political debate even though, as Presidebt Emeritus, he is expected to keep away from partisan politics !
As regards the agreement signed with N.Korea so many years ago, it must be said that when labour came to power in 1971, besides finding that there was no money left to pay government employees, Mintoff found that the army had a scaricity of arms and ammunition. So much so that to train soldiers, some of the soldiers were given wooden rifles ! In fact Mintoff used to describe the army under the PN as " armata tal-operetti" !
As a result of that agreement with N.Korea, arms and ammunition were acquired free of charge, since the government had no money at that stage, to spend on arms and ammunition !
Ian Bugeja
Aug 9th 2012, 11:19
This is precisely the problem labour faces at the moment. 20years have passed which should have taught 1 simple lesson to the whoe party. The government of the 70s and 80s failed so badly they ended up in the opposition for 20 years. And now are we going to see some of the old faces again as ministers? If so I am sure they will fail again, sadly the Maltese population will suffer.
John Scerri
Aug 9th 2012, 11:14
''Dr Muscat said he would rather focus on the political implications of the current “unsustainable” scenario ''
Escapism is one of Joseph Muscat's greatest virtues
Maria Caruana
Aug 9th 2012, 11:11
Two, very hard hitting statements from the PN, which make sense and expose Muscat for what he really is: shallow
Emanuel. Vella.
Aug 9th 2012, 11:10
shameful and insensitive,
huma dawk l-affarrijiet li graw taht
u ghadhom qed jigru taht gonzipn,my friend.
joseph saliba
Aug 9th 2012, 11:08
At times it's "I love you, but I have to kill you for the country's sake". At others, it's cool academic reasoning. Once in a while warnings of a stirring volcano... What else? Isn't it all about POWER, dear Joe? The past which Alex compared with the present, besides democracy lacked everything else. Today we can aspire for everything even a better democracy and this without the PL.
Eddy Privitera
Aug 9th 2012, 11:07
GnziPN are , as usual, trying to make a mountain out of a mole-hill ! They want to give the impression that they are scandalized because the international secretary of the PL wrote an academic article on what he considers the actual position of this government once one of its MPs has resigned from the parliamenatry group and the party.
GonziPN latched on the word " democracy" used by Dr. Sceberras Trigona, as if GonziPN is a paragon of democracy in Malta ! They forget that their former leader , prime minister, and almost self-appointed President of the Republic, had been found by the Court to have breached the human rights of Maltese citizens ! And Dr. Fenech Adami , who happens to be much older than Dr. Sceberras Trigona, still involves himself in partisan politics, even though he does not hold any official party position !
steve fenech
Aug 9th 2012, 10:49
its to be expected from the likes of muscat to call such an article an academic exercise. its to be expected from someone with such a shallow mind as muscat's, and from someone who does not mind sharing a platform with the likes of scibberras trigona.
for the hundreds who in the eighties defied everything that the socialist regime of mintoff and his lackeys, some of whom are still in the front seats of the present labour party. threw at them, democracy is anything but an academic exercise.
its only someone who does not have proper democratic credentials who call this latest foray but scibberras trigona an academic exercise.
Steve M. Engerer
Aug 9th 2012, 10:46
This is what we will get after the next election!!!
Same old faces... same old policies....
LABOUR WONT CHANGE!!
Eddy Privitera
Aug 9th 2012, 12:54
And with GonziPN, we would get the same problems of governance, corruption, vindictiveness, unneeded projects, squandering of many millions of euros, arrogance galore, 500 euros rise per week to PM and ministers, "web of evil", "oligarchy" and promises which will be forgotten once elected !!!!!
Victor Calleja
Aug 9th 2012, 14:15
Better same old faces than same non accountable, incompetent bunch.
Emanuel Curmi
Aug 9th 2012, 10:45
It is incredible that the 2 major parties are debating who is the bigger pillar of democracy in this country while their fiddling around with figures is not only purely academic but is detached from realities. What if I were to point out that neither party has an absolute majority when one considers the votes to the AD during the last election which basically boils down to a proportion of the electorate being denied the representation of their choice in parliament due to a biased electoral system? Democracy indeed! If this isn’t another blunt example of the hypocritical double talk by both major parties, preaching about their democratic credentials like it was some sort of a fashion show of ethic & morality, than I really have to despair about the development of democracy in this country.
Mr Andrew Camilleri
Aug 9th 2012, 12:27
In fact, if you add the votes received by Ad and LP together, they surpass votes obtained by GonziPN. Because of the atrocious unfair electoral system imposed on us by the big parties, Malta is not governed by the party obtaining the most votes.
John Zammit
Aug 9th 2012, 13:04
You are right no party got the absolute majority. as they were both under 50% So to continue boasting with the Majority when you never had it is hypocrisy
Mark Spiteri
Aug 9th 2012, 10:42
Joseph is already finding excuses to hide the embarassement.....the truth is that Labour is still full of people of the likes of AST..they say they changed but its all out of sight...but is still there!
E. Azzopardi
Aug 9th 2012, 10:42
Could have been an academic exercise but the damage has been done. Expired politicians, irrespective from which side they come, should shut up, especially if they are not up to date. But to say something for the sake of saying it, you may inflict a lot of damage, as in this case. With this press release, the citizens were taken back to the old days, which were not so pleasant. Now look at all the firing coming from all quarters!
The less the PL does this the better.
Joseph Cauchi Senior
Aug 9th 2012, 10:39
Are we so that naïve as to believe that Joseph Muscat is the ‘real’ leader of the MLP?
JM is just a front-man; and when the ‘real’ leader is actually behind the scenes pulling all the strings!
It would be great if our investigative journalists were to find out and inform their readers who this mysterious man might be (or is it a group, perhaps)?
We have to be careful when we cast our votes because we may think that we will be getting X when instead we get Y!
Joseph Muscat has not got the stuff of a leader; just note his response to Alex Sceberras Trigona’s comment!
JM is too weak to be a leader; therefore “La Mano Dietro le Quinte” is in motion!
JC.
Wally Vella-Zarb
Aug 9th 2012, 11:08
Ooooh! A conspiracy theory! I thought that these were only rife in 'junior' schools.
m. borg (slm)
Aug 9th 2012, 13:34
Hehehehehehe! Good one Joseph is not the real leader of PL, maybe you could tells who is Nostradamus?
James Dimech
Aug 9th 2012, 10:37
Joseph Muscat is this the "progressive movement" that you are promising us ?
Your nameless movement or whatever it is, is nothing but a sham.
Joseph Scicluna
Aug 9th 2012, 10:24
As Mr. Meldrew says in "One foot in the grave" UNBELIEVABLE!
Mr Peter Barbara
Aug 9th 2012, 10:24
the whole of Malta could have heartily welcomed "a good academic exercise" in the 1980's...
Mr Anthony Briffa
Aug 9th 2012, 10:51
Well said.
As well as when he abused his usurped power through the 1981 election gerrymandered results, and signed a secret pact with Communist North Korea to suppress whatever remnants of democracy were still alive under the MLP/Mintoff/KMB regime.
Marija Falzon
Aug 9th 2012, 10:21
The PN may not take lessons from AST, but believe me, GonziPN is not in a position to give lessons to anyone either.
Mario Farrugia
Aug 9th 2012, 11:59
Wrong Mrs Falzon, the GonziPN governemnt can give lessons on toursism, employment, IT infrastructure, etc etc
T Mifsud
Aug 9th 2012, 12:28
The PN has alot of defects and at the moment are passing through an internal problem. However, Do you think that the PL government-in-waiting, youngest-ever-primeminister-wannabe, is the right alternative government during this financial storm that has gripped the world? Don't you think it is wise to let experience first weather the storm, and then once out of it in calm waters, change the pilot to a cadet, to gain experience and get to know his feet around this ship of Malta? There will be a time for the PL but first it has to get rid of the dinosaur ballasts that are weighing it down and secondly to gain more essence from experience to be able to propose an attractive and solid course for Malta.
Nicky Azzopardi
Aug 9th 2012, 10:20
The second Joseph is subjected to criticism or put under pressure, he crumbles. Just what a nation needs.
Alfred Vassallo
Aug 9th 2012, 10:18
''a political dinosaur of the worst type.''
Maybe, but what are the pn.....giving themselves a 500 E increase whilst urging the people to make sacrifices. I repeat A 500 EURO increase, that's right, got it, sunk in!! A 500 EURO INCREASE. AND holding to office AT ALL COST even after being HUMILIATED by its 3 members for God's knows how many times.
People call this MONSTROUS!
Lawrence Fenech
Aug 9th 2012, 09:55
I am sorry Joseph but on this one we do not agree. The past still hurts.
Mr Edward Caruana Galizia
Aug 9th 2012, 09:52
Like the PN's response said, we don't need to take lessons about democracy from a party that was anything but democratic when it was in government, when Sceberras Trigona was there.
Mr Andrew Camilleri
Aug 9th 2012, 12:30
Yes, Ok fine. But have you anything intelligent to say about AST's article? It seems no one can rebut one word of what he werote -you are all attacking AST but no comment on his thesis.
Manwel Debattista
Aug 9th 2012, 12:41
Well Mr. Caruana Galizia, speaking about democracy, perhaps you would explain to us why the PN is running the Mellieha and Mosta local councils when Labout has a majority of votes there. We are not talking about 30 years ago but about TODAY.
Thank you.
P BORG
Aug 9th 2012, 09:40
Birds of a feather flock together .... Meditate Gente..... Meditate !!!!!!
Mark. Galea
Aug 9th 2012, 09:40
AST - a living example of the golden (M)LP years ...
a prospective minister as well?
Vincent Grech
Aug 9th 2012, 09:50
Ekka vera i living example ta tratament li amel min wara dar il poplu ma korea ta fuq pajiz komonista u iktar min ekk ifirhu li ha ikun a prospective minster ax il lupu ib bidel sufu imma emilu le ga urina li ma bidilx emmilu ara vera ma tafux tisthu.
C Falzon
Aug 9th 2012, 09:28
Imma kif il PN idawwar kollox kif jaqbillu...fl 1981 il kostituzzjoni kient tghid li min igib l aktar numru ta siggijiet jiggverna. L MLP gab aktar siggijiet mil PN u kellu dritt jiggverna. Illum il PN mhux demokratiku ghax il poplu fl 2008 ma vvutax ghal koalizzjoni.
Vincent Grech
Aug 9th 2012, 09:43
Kemm tinsew malajr fejn tridu mela insjetu kif dawwartu id distretti kif ridu biex igibu ikatar siggijet fil i981 ? sewwa jadu li lis spizjar milli ikollu jatik , iz zmien jaddi imma li imgarb ma jinsiex OK
Stefan Zammit
Aug 9th 2012, 10:04
Mhuwix possibli li tivvota ghal koalizzjoni. Koalizzjoni setghet issir bej JPO u PL, pero saret bej JPO u PN. M'hemmx fejn iddawwar kliem.
Andre Grech
Aug 9th 2012, 10:06
You really sound inteligent Mr. Falzon. Vera bravu! Mela if you talk about democracy and constitution. The people elect members to parliament and not a party. Even though the party who gets the most number 1 votes has a right to form a government. So the 35 members on the government side can all leave the PN but as long as they vote together on money bills and confidence motion, unfortunately you laburisti will have to keep on waiting and your stupid comments might extend your wait to another 5 years. Remember that labour were always ahead in surveys before the election, but then they get too excited about it and start talking rubbish which ends up in making them use the general elections over and over again.
Joseph Scicluna
Aug 9th 2012, 10:23
c. falzon
ezatt qabel l-elezzjoni tal- '81 mintoff kien qal li jekk ma jkollux il-MAGGORANZA TAL-POPLU MA JIGGVERNAX.
R Psaila
Aug 9th 2012, 10:26
@ Vincent Grech
Milli jidher anke inti tinsa, bhal meta fl-1996 il-Partit Laburista immexxi minn Dr. Alfred Sant, rebah b'aktar minn 7000 vot u spicca b'erba' siggijiet inqas. Dak ma kienx tidwir u mmanipular tad-distretti?
Edward Gatt
Aug 9th 2012, 10:29
@ C Falzon
Sa fejn naf jien il-poplu l-anqas ma' ivvota biex Jospeh Muscat ikun membru tal-parlament ahseb u ara biex ikun il-kap ta' l-oppozizzjoni, li hija kariga ufficjali.
James Ellul
Aug 9th 2012, 10:38
Jigifieri skond l-opinjoni tieghek, l-MLP missu qieghed fil-gvern ghax gab iktar siggijiet …meta l-PN gab iktar voti (49.3% PN kontra 48.8% Labour)
…ma nafx liema taghmel l-aktar sens ghalik …hux is-siggijiet jew il-voti????
…ma nafx kif tghidu dawn il banalitajiet???!!!!
David Meilak
Aug 9th 2012, 11:29
Your so ignorant, did the UK population vote for a coalition government? Nobody votes for a coalition, a coalition is formed on agreement depending on the circumstances.
Joe Vella
Aug 9th 2012, 12:33
C Falzon, the Constitution also spoke of the way Districts should be made up. It was the disgusting gerrymandering with Districts Boundaries that allowed Mintoff and the PL to steal the Election from the MAJORITY OF MALTESE . Since the 1987 Election to avoid another hijack of Maltese Democracy the system was changed that who ever gets the most 1st preference vote get to form the government. If things change during the life of a Legislation it is the will of Parliament who will dictate whether The Government should continue to Govern or not. In The last 8 months or so, Parliament on 3 separate occasions gave the PN Government a vote of Confidence.
jason gatt
Aug 9th 2012, 12:42
james naqqas il voti ta jpo.pero dawn kollha argumenti vojta u ta pika il partit Nazjonalist qieghed fix xifer naqra ohra jonqsu u jigi frak.Dan ga gara lil Partit Tal Haddiema fid disinijiet issa jmiss lil PN aktar ma jdum aktar jitlef elezjonijiet.history repeat it's self.
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