Hunter gets life ban on hunting

Johnny Xerri

Feb 9th, 12:21

Give us a year when it will be over...just like perviously stated by C Cassar who has been imaginging the ban in 5 years time for the past 20 years

Johnny Xerri

Feb 9th, 12:16

The only reason to be a member of FKNK or KSU is to;

1. Have the organisations stick up for your rights.
2. Be able to renew your licence.
3. To have insurance cover.

Now this criminal has been banned from obtaining a licence for life thus;

1. He does not form part of the legal hunting community thus does not have any rights that need protection.
2. Does not have a licence to renew.
3. Cannot have insurance cover for something he is not legally entitled to do.

Thus he himself will not even pay the membership irrelevant of the position taken by FKNK or KSU (which have already said loud and clear that they will not accept criminals within their members...as proven by the Natura 2000 3 criminals).

Of course some people will never be happy...please present your next fallacious argument Mr Aquilina so that it can be shot down again.

Johnny Xerri

Feb 9th, 12:19

Just in case you missed my comment and was too bothered to scroll down

Johnny Xerri

Today, 07:26

at all those attacking the conservation argument;

1. Who preserved his land from intensive farming, and thus maintaining a habitat that is inducive to conserve endemic species all year round (not just brids, but shurbs, mammals like hedgehogs, brown rat, weasels, lizards, insects ect)?

2. Who preserved his land from ending uplike a concreate jungle?

3. Who volontarly maintains his land in pristine conditions by weeding, pruning trees, watering, rebuilding rubble walls, cleaning water ways, etc?

4. Who is working hard to preserve the national identity of the only Maltese dog, by identifying the reason why Maltese hunting dogs decreased and addressing this issue through endless work in order to obtain a pedegree for the Maltese hunting dog, which breed would be the only Maltese dog with a pedegree?

5. Who released turtle doves and othe birds at Buskett and who objected to this through a court case (that was eventually lost by the envious birdies).

Even the EU and USA, who are avant guard on environmental issues, acknowledge the conservation aspect of hunting, and state this in various position papers and official documentantion.

Awaiting your reply as to what Ms Conservation 2012 has done for conservation in Malta

Johnny Xerri

Feb 9th, 07:31

Steve Zammit, you know perfectly well that spring hunting in malta is of no detrement to breeding birds since we are hunting less than the mortality rate.

This is even accepted by the EU since the birds directive gives countries who have no other altrenative to spring hunting the possibility to hunt as long as the natural mortality rate is not surpassed.

Do you really beleive that hunters simply plant eucalyptus trees and thats it? Do you know how many have planted olive, carrob, and other endemic trees? True that many had planted alien trees but the trend is being reversed...however, BLM once stated that Malta is on a main migratory route only to be exposed as liars during the ECJ court case...did they reverse their opinion or simply continue persisting with their lies?

Carmelo Aquilina

Feb 9th, 08:22

@ Johnny Xerri
"spring hunting in malta is of no detrement to breeding birds"..oh well then please explain how hunting has killed off the breeding populations of the peregrine falcon, barn owl and crow

...and maybe some trappers and hunters plant endemic trees but a lot ,more plant alien quick growing species and trappers use large quantities of weed killers to have their traps free of vegetation. If you are right then the FKNK is wrong to worry about the planned law to allow the authorities to remove the removal of alien trees from our landscape.

Johnny Xerri

Feb 9th, 12:09

The species you mention are not huntable species...

So if we are to not allow hunting due to poaching then by your own reasoning we should;
Not allow sex because of rape...
Not allow shopping because of shoplifters.
Not allow driving because of joyriders.

Incedentily are you a person who enjoys a health lifestyle, shops and drives....how would you like it if you were then classified as a rapist, shoplifter and joydriver...I think you are wise enough to get the drift.

FKNK is not worried about a ban on planting alien trees @ present or in the future...but simply pointed out that one cannot be justified in applying a retrospective law...nobody was ever made to remove houses built in ODZ simply when new laws stated that one cannot build in ODZs

Steve Zammit

Feb 9th, 17:10

Johnny Xerri, I don't have much time to waste at the moment, we will have plenty of time to post in the future ;)

But I would like to write two points in response to your comments

''Do you really beleive that hunters simply plant eucalyptus trees and thats it? ''

Most hunters still have this mentality, and you know its true. Such thoughts are even written by your own members in your forum. Urging hunters to plant Eucalyptus and disagreeing with those that would rather plant indigenous, there was even a post a year back of one member importing some White poplar hybrid, ALIEN that grows extremely quickly, and urging other hunters to buy too, many were interested

This is a conversation with a friend hunter of mine

1: aw sihbi ghala ma thawwilx harruba gol-ghalqa
2: u le xbin idum wisq biex jikber
1: harruba sigra indigina maltija tipika
2; u le nippreferi ewkaliptus, tghidx kemm tikber malajr u inkun nista noqtol u mhux noqod nistenna snin

'Do you know how many have planted olive, carrob, and other endemic trees? '

Whats the point of planting indigenous if their sole intention is to attract birds to kill them?

As for the rest, Carmelo Aquilina answered well. You would only know the true meaning of conservation when you give your gun a rest and look at nature leaving nothing behind you but footprints.

Go walking at Buskett which is full of trees and enjoy the wintering Song Thrushes and Blackbirds that are present. After go walk in any wooded valleys of ours with suitable vegetation where such species could winter too and tell me how may you would see, of course these valleys are full of trees planted by hunters, but all the birds that were attracted to these same valleys were killed in minutes of their arrival !! Is this what you call conservation? ....get it?

Gleen micallef above gave you a good answer....Practice hunting all you want....but it's not conservation.

Johnny Xerri

Feb 9th, 19:11

Dear Steve Micallef,

Shows how little you know about conservation...simply banning hunting will yield nothing. Cinservation is not simply protecting birds...that is mono-protection. Conservation implies protecting habitats, protecting non game species, providing resting spots for non game species such as brown rats, lizards, snails and other vertibrates that birds feed upon.

All over the world environmental conservation groups ackowledge that hunters conserve habitats, manage land and provide protection for non game species.

True that there exists poachers who have low ethical concerns and do not act as conservationists, however, going by BLM findings and filmings, they hradly ever provide more that a couple of dozen filmings of illegal hunting...even one illegality is one too many but how can one expect zero illegalities from 17,000 hunters and trappers. Not even the clergy, the saintly almighty maltese clergy is sinner free.

M. Cardona

Feb 9th, 23:00

Mr Steve Zammit,

if you were proposing the planting of carob trees, ironically you were in fact proposing the planting of another alien tree species.

Regarding the alien poplar trees, you might wish to recall the whole topic and not opine selectively. As a matter of fact the individual was heavily criticised and advised to the contrary.

Re-having time to post in the future; I sure am you will have plenty time to recall with nostalgy the good old times when everything coincidentally so happened to favour just one of the contending parties and to selectively fit defined agendas.

With regards to conservation and hunting, I guess that unfortunately (at least in extremely bi- polarised Malta) there's no way discussing constructively with individuals whose starting point to any discussion is the highlighting of the illegal to seek to eradicate the legitimate. By my books and also by those of several amongst your international organisational buddies inclusive of BLI, the most successful conservation efforts (actually the highlight is on the ones that really work in out the long term) are the ones undertaken jointly with the local hunting fraternities. Unfortunately there is no local reciprocal apprecation and respect of respective interests. Respect begins with respecting what are legitimate practices and give praise to conservation efforts where they're due, rather than constantly whining the negative beat.

BTW how many trees have you personally bought out of your own pocket and out of that very same pocket planted, pruned , weeded, watered, and nurtured over the years?

Glenn Micallef

Feb 10th, 10:55

Mr.Cardona,

As regards the origin of the Carob tree, we can all speculate but no one can be certain. Moreover, it is considered as archeophyte and not as alien, and it is still native of the mediterranean basin.

The vast majority of hunters plant fast growing trees, precisely Eucalyptus. They do so with no conservation in mind, but simply to attract birds to their death.

I will have to agree with you that for a full conservation effort, the hunting community, as a stake holder, should be included. The conservationists highlight the illegalities because they are rampant locally. There are still too many hunters that are defined as poachers as they target protected species. Some are simply ignorant, others simply think that they can do whatever they want and finally, most still consider taxidermy as an art and still go about their business of trophy hunting. Various pro hunting bloggers on this website have admitted that the problem existed before EU accession. However they now believe the problem has disappeared as we have some form of enforcement that was previously absent. The real problem is that the FKNK insists this is not the case, nor before 2004 (do you recall Fatal Flight?) and obviously neither today. The fact that the problem existed cannot be questioned, and this is proved by the thousands of stuffed protected birds that were registered under the (two) amnesties. The entire hunting fraternity today wants to rest of the population to believe that the problem disappeared overnight, like a switch was used to change the situation. This is not possibile,neither in this case nor any other. This needs a culture change that occurs over time. If the FKNK would have acknowledged the existance of the problem, there would have been a way forward, and the possibilty to work with conservationists for some better conservation. However, the hunting community prefers to live in self denial, and tries in every possibile way to obsrtuct the conservationist from exposing the current illegalities.This is the true situation, but you will never admit, and prefer to point fingures.....

Finally, I honestly believe that collective punishment is not the solution, but the FKNK remains with its head buried in the sand, and those not want to take stock of the real current situation. They prefer to focus on the 'injustices' they currently suffer and live with the hope of a 'hunting paradise' in the near future. I just wonder, what will happen when the ones still breaking the laws today, will do if and when they are given some slack....who will be proved right than???

Steve Zammit

Feb 10th, 21:48

Dear Mr.Johnny Xerri

It's Steve Zammit and not Micallef :)

''Shows how little you know about conservation...simply banning hunting will yield nothing. ''

I know quite a lot about conservation thank you very much, I know about the true conservation of birds and their habitat primarily for them to gain and not the conservation of the habitat to kill the birds you attract and gain yourself. I didn't call for a ban, I'm just challenging your argument that hunting in Malta is conservation, contrary it's anything but that.

''Cinservation is not simply protecting birds''

Then what is it about? Aren't we talking about birds here? yeah sure it is about the creation of 'resting spots for non game species such as brown rats, lizards, snails and other vertibrates that birds feed upon'...fair enough but do you actually think that hunters create habitat for the conservation of lizards or brown rats? come on

''All over the world environmental conservation groups ackowledge that hunters conserve habitats, manage land and provide protection for non game species.''

Yes I agree....But in Malta the situation is quite different. I'll explain...

How can you acknowledge hunters for the conservation of habitats and birds locally when
- we have one of the largest densities of hunters in the world?
- one of the most densely populated countries?
- when the impact of hunting in Malta is large?
- when half the island is built up?
- when the proportion of birds to hunter ratio is quite low?....imagine 30 hunters in a valley 1km sq trying to bag 15 thrushes....thats just .5 per hunter
- when migration in Malta practically depends on climatic conditions during migration? thus birds pas through on passages, and can arrive in large numbers on certain days....ohrog f'passa imlievez ha tara xinhi vera konservazzjoni....pum pum kulhadd jispara u jiehu gost joqtol....l-aqwa hawwilna erba sigriet ha jinzlu
- when hunting activity in Malta resulted in the wipe out of breeding populations of Barn Owl, Peregrine Falcon, Kestrel and Jackdaw?
- when hunting activity in Malta deprived potential breeding birds such as the Swift and Barn Swallow to breed locally and only now after a ban and reduction of spring hunting we have seen the increase of these species breeding....this wouldn't have been possible before.
- When hunting locally resulted in the killing of thousands of game birds that would have easily wintered here but cannot because not one area is spared of hunting (unless the few remote protected areas)....
- the killing and massacre of protected birds that have now been protected seen at least 1980 but their slaughter persisted till recently in the name of hunting, and only know after pressure from international birding community we have witnessed some changes
- when hunters introduced and planted thousands of eucalyptus saplings, much to the harm of indigenous trees. If you are serious about conservation you would have never let such a though to plant an ALIEN destructive tree like the Eucalyptus tree in Malta....but it seems the urge to shot and kill is more important than the wait for a tree to go, and comes before the conservation of the Maltese mediterranean habitat

The list can go on forever....I think you got my point

Abroad a hunter owns hundreds of hectares of land....create and manages wetlands and respects the laws. The bagging of a few game birds there doesn't have such a dramatic effect on the birds on the land because it is so large. Not here and you know its true. Also you got to say everything, it was thanks to the birdwatcher and the environmentalist that pressure was made to create protected reserves that all Europeans enjoy today....do find time to visit protected reserves locally and abroad and enjoy the birdlife present and maybe you'll realise what conservation really is

Malta has a long way to go before hunters can truly say what they practice is conservation, for now its just a joke and everyone who frequents the countryside to enjoy birds and nature knows this

M. Cardona

''BTW how many trees have you personally bought out of your own pocket and out of that very same pocket planted, pruned , weeded, watered, and nurtured over the years?''

I never bought any trees, instead I grow them myself. In fact today I collected another batch of Oak seeds to plant this week end. Also have around 3 dozen Carob trees which will be soon ready to plant in the open. I also sowed the Maltese National Tree - the sandarac gum tree (Gharghar) and to my delight around 35 have grown and I am now in the process of repotting them too....also have a dozen pines and 2 Lewziet...you see I don't only speak, I turn my words into action too. if you are interested feel free to let me know, I can reserve a few for you at a very cheap price, honestly don't really care about the money. I just want to leave this rock a bit greener than I found it...

and btw I agree with your comment here ''the most successful conservation efforts...are the ones undertaken jointly with the local hunting fraternities''. True but only when hunters start to appreciate truly what conservation is all about. I have a lot of conservations with hunters, and trust me they never talk about the need to conserve habitat or birds....they only talk about how much they killed, injured, didn't catch or how many shots they fired. the conservation bit is not really in their speech equation. They also mumble and moan against blm, when what BLM has been doing for the past 50 years is simply that = conservation

Well said Mr. Glenn Micallef

Cheers

Johnny Xerri

Feb 11th, 18:12

Well Mr Zammit,

Until you accept that the Maltese hunter has a right to legal hunting just as much as any other citizen in the world than you have a big problem.

The fact that Malta is densely populated is not fault of the hunter and the fact that half of it is built up is also not any hunter's problem.

You are cross at hunters for no wintering birds...but you fail to mention the number of wintering birds at simar, ghadira, girgenti, buskett, kenedy groove...plus other reserves...what do you expect...that hunters hang their guns and oil them for good just so that you can have your way?

The antis and BLM are amazing...they claim not to be extrimists and only willing to stop illegal hunting...and yet come all against legal hunting.

You mentioned thrushes...yep they are killed...and eaten...so whats the problem? Aren't these birds killed in much larger numbers in Italy, France, Spain?

You will only accept the consevation efforts when no hunting is practiced...well I for one will remove my trees (mostly olive trees in which many species like warblers breed)...& just go for intensive crop rotation ...build any land that can be built upon (since not all my land is in ODZ...most of my fields have been conveniently bought close enough to be with the building zones and yet 400m away from the last building :) ) and use the money to hunt abroad. What conservation will that have?

I will not input anything into the environment unless I can reap anything...and thats what people like yourself should realise...no hunting...no conservation.

Anthony Formosa

Feb 8th, 20:19

Mr Joe A Borg, well I guess everyone is imagining the abundant greenery on our island except me. Yes hunters invested to conserve and preserve what is left, unless your imagination is taking you to developers, or real estate agency who can turn a valley into a block of concrete.

@ John Dee,

All the trees around us are part of the hunters conservation, enough said.

John Dee

Feb 8th, 20:48

Mr Formosa - what a strange plea, saving trees to attract birds so you can slaughter them.
When you reach the dying corpses of these once beautiful living creatures and watch the sparkle fade from their innocent eyes do you not sometimes wonder if you are behaving in the manner which your God had planned for you?

Daniel Gauci

Feb 8th, 21:10

I’m sorry Anthony but that is a weak and almost irrelevant argument. Which I am willing to bet any one from the environment/conservation department would ridicule that theory.
Hunting is keeping old boy traditions alive and feeding a killing complex for others. If you and others eat what you hunt then fairplay, I understand that we need to eat and provide.

However, I can tell you what is keeping up and pressing conservation in Malta- CONSERVATIONISTS

Johnny Xerri

Feb 9th, 07:26

at all those attacking the conservation argument;

1. Who preserved his land from intensive farming, and thus maintaining a habitat that is inducive to conserve endemic species all year round (not just brids, but shurbs, mammals like hedgehogs, brown rat, weasels, lizards, insects ect)?

2. Who preserved his land from ending uplike a concreate jungle?

3. Who volontarly maintains his land in pristine conditions by weeding, pruning trees, watering, rebuilding rubble walls, cleaning water ways, etc?

4. Who is working hard to preserve the national identity of the only Maltese dog, by identifying the reason why Maltese hunting dogs decreased and addressing this issue through endless work in order to obtain a pedegree for the Maltese hunting dog, which breed would be the only Maltese dog with a pedegree?

5. Who released turtle doves and othe birds at Buskett and who objected to this through a court case (that was eventually lost by the envious birdies).

Even the EU and USA, who are avant guard on environmental issues, acknowledge the conservation aspect of hunting, and state this in various position papers and official documentantion.

M. Cardona

Feb 8th, 22:03

"Peace man, peace", some gent once said if I recall correctly.

michael scicluna

Feb 8th, 21:46

name and shame ??? do you revoke car licences after a parking infringment??

M. Cardona

Feb 8th, 22:01

Mr Mark Sultana,

1) Well done Maltese courts, where only today someone found guilty of multiple hold-ups (on people and not birds), illegal possession of a firearm and driving without a licence got off with relatively much less. A BIG well done for the complete loss of PROPORTIONALITY. Keep it up, we can only sink just a bit lower...maybe.

2) If as you claim; 100% guilty verdict was passed on all 44 cases, then this is something each and every one of us should really be worried about. And the worry has nothing to do with hunting or hunting related illegalities. For someone who seeks a single end it doesn't mean much since the end justifies the means. For the rest (at least those with a modicum of objectivity and who can critically analyze what's self-evident) it speaks volumes about the local administration of justice or lack thereof.

3) Your point no 3 is a fallacy going by your very same premises.

4) Your point no 4 simply proves what this was all about in the first place and justifies my concerns highlighted in point 2 earlier on.

Johnny Xerri

Feb 9th, 07:16

lol...you know how many in each locality are fined and arrianged for driving offences? And you know how many of these are found guilty? Moreover you know whats the fine for driving through a one-way possibly injuring people by causing and accident (€ 50) ?

FKNK explained this time and time again...if the offence is serious enough then yes there will be memberships revoked...remember the natura 2000 idiots (3 in all)...however, out of the 58 cases how many were serious and how many were minor (example...not having the carnet de chasse or identification, being 180 meters from residences instead of 200 meters, having an electronic lure, etc...cases that are deemed minor offences in every civilised country)

re 'only a few are caught and even few of them are actually taken to court' this applys also to; drug dealers, wife beaters, skiving doctors, abusive drivers, and what not....but do we ban anything?

Was BLM banned from operating simply because its 'facts'on bird migration were exposed as lies during the ECJ case that paved the way for legalspring hunting?

Was hunting banned from any country on the bases of illegalities?

Mark Sultana

Feb 9th, 12:40

to Mr Scicluna, Mr cardiona and Mr Xerri

your comments just prove how you so called law abiding hunters keep on justifying (indirectly) illegalities of hunting.

there is no corners to cut, 44 found guilty from 44 cases in one day of hearing. the laws of hunting are broken indiscriminately and you can't shout loud enough or comment continuously to make me believe differently.

My only wish is that the governemnt realises this and stops the illegal spring hunting

M. Cardona

Feb 9th, 15:23

Mr Sultana,

if you please re-read my comment since it was not centred on the topic of hunting or related illegalities and hence I cannot understand how you may surmise that I "justify illegal hunting". Then again you have already made up your mind ( contrary to the ruling by the ECJ and the EU Environmental Commission statements) that spring hunting is illegal, so in reality you're really not much worth bothering with to have a constructive dialogue.

Johnny Xerri

Feb 9th, 17:26

Dear Mark Sultana,

If one goes through a one way he gets €50 fine...if he is involved in a hit an run he gets a heft fine anf possibly jail.

If one rapes a 35 year old he gets a fine and around 5 years...if he rapes a child he gets 12 years.

If one steals a bananna he gets a smile...if he steals a € 1000 car he gets short jail sentence...if he steals a €50000 car he gets more...


Thus depending on the gravity of the deed...the sentence is proportional and relative.

True that 44 got sentenced as guilty...yet many manymnay of these were on minor cases and you know this...thus are you expecting the same treatment for all?

Ironically if you see the similiar stories section you will get your reply...

Mr Chris Xuereb

Feb 8th, 18:59

mela ghax ma tajjarx xi had minfok ghasfur? min hu inhawwad qatt ma jista jifhem

Mr Joe Camilleri

Feb 8th, 19:01

U f'dawk is sitt xhur jerga jinqabad isuq, u XORTA ma titihidlux il licenzja.....

S Calleja

Feb 8th, 18:15

Ow how i agree on that! BAN hunting on the Island! And let us enjoy the birds flying free in our skies!

Anthony Formosa

Feb 8th, 18:17

What else one expect from an anti. Without hunting there is no conservation, we're already experiencing this in Malta.

John Dee

Feb 8th, 18:39

@ Anthony Formosa - "without hunting there is no conservation"? Really?
Without the 'hunters' trying to slaughter everything that moves nothing would need conserving - it would suvive naturally. What a strange defence.

josef buttigieg

Feb 8th, 19:18

Prosit man titfa lil kulhadd go xkora wahda ,mallewwel bla ma tahseb xejn.Thanks ta .ma ghandekx xi delizzju li jdejjaq lil xi hadd int jew

D. A . Agius

Feb 8th, 22:16

Some commentators should be banned from commenting as well!

Is that a valid statement?

Johnny Xerri

Feb 9th, 07:06

like wise maybe we should ban all man from getting married because some abuse their wives and children.

While we are at it we could aslo ban all self employment simply because some people evade taxation...and if a minister's cleaner did it for a low wage...I can imagine the people on better wages.

Why not ban women from the streets or mini skirts...coz some loit aroundin mini's just to break the law and prostitute themselves...

Annalisa Debono

Feb 8th, 18:25

That means now he is not going to jail but if he commits another crime within these three years he will have to do those 18 months in prision apart from the sentence for that particular crime.

wayne scicluna

Feb 8th, 18:27

No Mrs. Spiteri. Suspended sentence means that the is free but will go to jail if he commits another offence in the next 3 years.

Jay Oatmon

Feb 8th, 18:30

He is not going to jail unless he re-offends in the next 18 months. So in effect as long as he does not get caught he can use another gun and carry on - this is the way the courts work in Malta.

Johnny Xerri

Feb 9th, 07:03

Mr Oatmon,

If he is sensible he would not re-offend...he was given the benefit of the doubt, just as is normal with many other criminals...of course if he abuses this thrust in society he will have this benefit removed.

Incidently suspended sentences are very normal not only in Malta...but around the world simply because society believes in a corrective punishment that will leave the offender being very careful not to lose his freedom. If on the otherhand he was just imprisoned he would most probably get mixed with much harder criminals who commeted graver crimes than hunting in closed seasons, and end up unreformed and of a much harder criminal

Johnny Xerri

Feb 9th, 06:57

Do you comment likewise on all the drug abusers, pedophiles, rapists, tax evaders and all the other criminals...?

What did you expect? Chopping of his hand and life in prison?

Franco Farrugia

Feb 8th, 17:46

There are more civilised ways how to deter birds from the airfield, Mr 'Gant' but perhaps such ways are unknown to you.