Government to allow trapping of Song Thrush

Jonathan Camilleri

Nov 2nd 2011, 04:33

I agree, however, the hunters have a say (vote) as well...

Johnny Xerri

Nov 1st 2011, 19:13

Why not bring foreigners...more qualified in politics...like the Italian Prime Minister who managed to derogate in favour of Italians to shoot song birds....or like the british PM who manages to apply for derogations that render the Britsh hunters an all year round open season....or like Austria's PM who managed to retain bird trapping...

C Cassar....you were proved wrong when you claimed that hunting would be banned...because since 2010 the seasons got longer not shorter...and now even on trapping....I suggest that you resort to accepting the situation or you yourself emigrate to a country that does not allow hunting...Commino and Filfla come to mind

Johnny Xerri

Oct 31st 2011, 20:36

the prime minister already did his hunting in 2003 referendum and election...now hunters have grown wiser...

Johnny Xerri

Oct 31st 2011, 19:23

well you must have picked the biggest straw...but even though you did...clutching on straws proved futile when trappers and hunters had both legal and scientific justifications...besides the legal expecations that they were warrented during the referendum and election

Johnny Xerri

Oct 31st 2011, 20:39

well at least he tries...but fails becase the antis are cross because the season opened..the trappers are cross because he kept them waiting and the migration is nearly over....just like Dr Gawdenz Bolocca in his TV series use to try and try but always fail...the similiarity is amazing...even the name is there!!!!

Johnny Xerri

Oct 31st 2011, 19:30

Maybe because it is legal in some EU Countries and we are not any inferior?

Maybe because it is legal to shoot song thrush as in other EU countires (so trapping or hunting does not matter as long as the quarry is legal game)?

Maybe because it was guaranteed in the referendum and election?

Maybe because some people prefer to have a hobby instead of teaching wardens a lesson in good manners!!!

Charles Gauci

Oct 31st 2011, 20:18

Sur Xerri, go try to shoot a Song Thrush in the UK (an EU country)

Johnny Xerri

Oct 31st 2011, 20:30

well Charles Gauci...try and shot a collard dove in Malta, or a whimbrel in Malta, or a hawfinch in Malta...all these can be shot in the UK and Italy.

Each country has its own regualtions determined by its migration patterns and culture.

You still have upto present date not come up witha single EU member state that does not allow hunting...I place you a deal mention one and I will freely oil my gun and give up hunting...else you will give up your rediculous arguments...deal or no deal?

Charles Gauci

Oct 31st 2011, 20:44

I shall offer you a different deal Mr. Xerri. Divorce had been allowed in all EU countries but not in Malta. To introduce it we had to vote in a referendum. So why don't we have a referendum to see if the Maltese want hunting and trapping or not. That way the people will decide.

Johnny Xerri

Nov 1st 2011, 04:37

Simply because we already had a referendum in which hunting was an issue...remember in 2003...legally to remove an item from an electoral or referenda manifesto....one would 1st and foremost have to declare the initial referendum as disolved...retake the referendum without the 'item' concerned then hold 2 seperate referenda...one on EU entry without hunting being guaranteed and one in favour or against hunting.

Moreover, the referendum that you are suggesting would be illegal, one because it would be in oppression of a minority and two because it would be discriminatory against a section of EU citezens (since hunting is allowed in all EU Member states)

But since you are an extrimist who is not concerned with any legal expectations, not concerned with the Birds Directive, but simply with a ban, ban, ban, there is no reasoning with you. Continue making a fool out of yourself, but in the mean time sumbit to the humiliation that contrary to what your beloved BLM brain washed you into believing, HUNTING IS LEGAL IN ALL EU MEMBER STATES....AND TRAPPING IS LEGAL IF DEROGATION CONDITIONS ARE ABIDED TO.

Of to hunt...cya

Charles Gauci

Nov 1st 2011, 15:36

Sur Xerri, I am willing to make a fool of myself anytime. I think it is much better than butchering or imprisoning birds for a pastime! Rest assured that BLM has not brainwashed me and it never fooled me like FKNK or PN did to hunters and trappers before we joined the EU. I might not be so up to date as you as regards EU legislation but I definitely knew, way back in 2003, that if I voted Yes (as I did) the government would have to restrict the barbaric killing of birds that had been taking place uncontrolled in our islands. So while you are happy to butcher birds, I shall continue making a fool of myself (in your blinkered eyes, of course).
PS: time will tell us IF DEROGATIONS HAVE BEEN ADHERED TO.

Johnny Xerri

Nov 1st 2011, 19:51

Charles Gauci,

Be very careful what you claim...

" Rest assured that BLM has not brainwashed me and it never fooled me like FKNK or PN did to hunters and trappers before we joined the EU"

FKNK warned hunters...and never took them for a ride...

As for your YES vote...well hard for you as it may seem...but your YES vote meant that you agreed with spring hunting, autumn hunting and trapping...since the continuation of spring hunting, autumn hunting and trapping were all included in the manifesto. The EU referendum was based on a package and all the YES voters voted in favour of the whole package and not towards bits of the manifesto.


As for the butchering...tons of animals are killed each year and no body bats an eyelid...what differnece does it make if the quail (turtle dove, duck, song thrush, skylark, etc) I eat came from a farm or from the field?

If you are blinkered enough to beleive that hunting/trapping is illegal and occures only in Malta...then that is your problem...I am not blinkered to believe that any hunting will do...maturity on the issue renders me enough serentity to accept that their is a birds directive I must adhere to, enough courage to challange extrimists like you, and enough wisdom to know how to go about it.

Charles Gauci

Oct 31st 2011, 19:04

Not just Gozo (l-aqwa li niftahru b'Eco Gozo!). On Saturday afternoon and early evening what is called Majjistral National Park was crawling with hunters - and bird callers everywhere (no hunting is supposed to take place there after 09.00 hrs.) to such an extent that one couldn't take a walk there! Also access to the park from the Manikata-Mellieha road is littered with scribblings of no entry; private; trespassers will be prosecuted! Where are the police? What happened to law enforcement?

Johnny Xerri

Oct 31st 2011, 19:36

Charles Gauci,

The park you are mentioning is not 'a till 9 am' hunting zone...it was for some time...but the decision was revoked...update yourself.

Moreover, if you feel that the signs are illegal just trespass and then face legal action...(if you are sure you will win the case)...if you are worried call the police. The police are not in every spot around Malta & Gozo, but rest assured that if you call they will come (especially if it is hunting/trapping related).

Furthermore, hunters MUST be able to enjoy their private land within the parameters of EU legislation how they deem fit...be it hunting, trapping or just taking a nap under a tree....they MUST also be allowed their own share of access and use of public land coz hunters and trappers pay licences, taxes and form part of the public just as much as you and the bunny huggers do.

Charles Gauci

Oct 31st 2011, 20:17

@Johnny Xerri
Mr. Xerri, Is il-Majjistal a National Park or is it privately owned? Ta' Qali is also a national park and so far I have not seen any no entry, private or no trespassing signs. The greed and disregard to others of hunters and trappers knows no bounds. The obsession to kill and destroy nature really is beyond their control.

Johnny Xerri

Oct 31st 2011, 20:44

If you doubt the legality of the signs inform the authorities...moreover not all of the Park is public land...some of it is private land...inform yourself befor commenting

Charles Gauci

Nov 1st 2011, 06:25

Sur Xerri, the scribblings referred to are at the ACCESS to the park, not on private land. Read my comment well before you rush in.

Paul Attard

Oct 31st 2011, 19:01

Why not just release them back into the wild? I fail to see any reason to keep them? Its insane.

Martin Austad

Oct 31st 2011, 19:14

What silence in the countryside? At this time of year Malta is a war zone when birds are migrating thanks to hunters. Or should we ban hunting and allow trappers to invade the countryside instead putting up no entry signs all over the place?...not that hunters don't...

Johnny Xerri

Oct 31st 2011, 19:42

Martin Austad,

Hunters/trappers will put signs of no entry irrespective of open closed seasons...private land will always be private land...and you and your ilk will always face land owners if you trespass.

War zone...come on even the ECJ decalred that Malta is not a major migratory route...so what the bananas are you on about....if Malta is a war zone then what are the remaining countries that are on major migratory routes? I spoke to an italian hunter via facebook and told him we saw a good passage of song thrush and that I had a good catch...he asked me how much I caught...when I told him that I shot at 7 birds and killed 5 he replied with...lol...coz he shot 200 in one morning (not one day).


Paul Attard....trappers keep birds as decoys for the next year and for genetic diversity of their breeding stock...irrispective of whether you classify this as insane, the use is termed as legal by the EC Commission and ECJ

Johnny Xerri

Oct 31st 2011, 19:45

Diana Posey,

you are going to have major problems come next election...PN are out of your list for this move, PL promised to improve hunting and ttrapping conditions by removing any legislation that exceeds the birds directive, and alternativa democratica never granished a vote...mela ser tispicca kannol bla krema darling!!!

Johnny Xerri

Oct 31st 2011, 19:47

Yep just like other countries do...on many occassions you claimed not to be against legal hunting and trapping....but then when something is legal but you don't like it you oppose it....so what is your definition of legal hunting/trapping?

Steve Zammit

Nov 1st 2011, 17:10

Mr. Xerri,

I'm not really interested in what other countries do, I'm interested in my country. If you want to compare everything, the UK (yep that country that hunts Wood Pigeon NOT Turtle dove all year round) would never dream to shoot a Song Thrush or trap it.

Johnny, I can tolerate legal hunting and accept this fact but it doesn't mean that deep down I agree with it or with everything that is practiced here locally. Malta doesn't even have any resident game birds and the scale of hunting is so intense. When I'm out in the countryside, i just have to accept that other persons in society practice this hobby and i live with it. But there's nothing wrong in voicing my opinion here in a civilised manner, just like you voice yours. I believe that one can easily enjoy Song thrushes without having the need to trap or shoot them, thats all. Instead its better if we forget the differences and unite in whats common, and work together to put an end to illegal hunting which is still widespread for the benefit of all and the birds themselves.

Johnny Xerri

Nov 3rd 2011, 09:42

Steve you conveniently mention the UK who would never dream of trapping or shooting thrushes...but refrain from informing people that thrushes are legally shot in ; France, Italy, Greece, Cyprus, Spain, and other UK countries...

The fact that some countries do not shot at thrushes is that they have better quality game, such as; woodcock, ducks and geese (wildfowl), mammals.

Mr Zammit, if the Maltese had to refrain from shooting thrushes what would they effectively shoot at in autumn? As a bird watcher you should be well versed in migration of birds over Malta, and surely know that the only 'common' bird that hunters may encounter during autumn is the song thrush (all other thrushes as occassionally met in small numbers)....ducks, woodcock, snipe, plovers, lapwings, etc are very infrequently met and a hunter with very good land would hardly manage more that 2 of these birds during all autumn...and this during a very good season.

The only common birds that a hunter can have a shot at are thrushes and starlings...two species that you have many a time expressed your opinion against the hunting of?

How do you expect me and other hunters to join YOU in fighting illegal hunting when anything legal upsets you?....of course I will continue to oppose illegal hunting...but in an independent manner from you or BLM...simply for conservation's sake of endangered or vulnerable species and not to please you or any bunny hugger extrimist.

Steve Zammit

Nov 3rd 2011, 17:29

Mr. Xerri, I know very much myself that Song thrushes, Starlings and Skylarks are practically the only common birds that can be bagged now. If you want to shoot them, so be it. I don't really agree with it but I respect your opinion.

Now that we are entering the winter period, what birds can we actually enjoy in our countryside? Ok so there are the Robins, Black Redstarts, Meadow Pipits, White and Grey Wagtail, Chiffchaff, Stonechat, Blackcaps and Starlings which are very numerous. Besides that of course we can encounter Skylark, Song Thrush, Blackbird, maybe the other odd scarce thrush, Snipe, Moorhen, Water Rail, etc...what is common in all the species larger than a sparrow that we can see at this time of the year that I have mentioned? They can all get shot, and no matter how infrequent they are, every single bird that arrives here is shot. I can't enjoy any of these species because they are all killed since hunting here is so intense, no bird of these species is spared. The only place where I can enjoy them is at the two reserves or Buskett, where they are left in peace and successfully winter there, unlike anywhere else in Malta.

A balance is always important and we should work to reach that. Unfortunately in Malta a balance can't really be reached in terms of these species because all the common hunt able species that could easily winter here never manage to do so due to hunting, and thats practically all that comes here apart from the odd Kestrel (that often too gets shot down).

Of course this upsets me. Do you actually expect me to smile when I see Starlings fly over with dangling legs or when I find an injured bird with gunshot injures? or when I find dead Starlings under the roosts that died for nothing or when I see exhausted Skylarks that don't even weigh 50g coming in from the sea during rough weather and already are getting shot down? But this all doesn't seem to bother you much, you're too busy out hunting to notice these things or ever think about them, too bad I encounter such incidents regularly.

And finally I am no 'bunny extremist' and never have I called for an outright ban neither. I'm just stating my opinion giving good reasons behind them and writing from what I witness myself in the countryside. We may not agree on everything Johnny, but lets use the bird as the common factor, because with out it nor you or me are out in the countryside enjoying nature. And yes we should work together to abolish illegal hunting, because if it isn't the law-abiding hunter along with the birdwatcher that will act then who will? I took around 45mins to write this comment, I hope you understand my points :) Regards

Johnny Xerri

Nov 3rd 2011, 19:25

Come on it is hardly fair to say that;

1. No birds winter here. I have seen roosts of starlings (heavily hunted species) that have stayed here throughout the open season...and the closed season...right up to mid-march.

2. When you stated that;

" Ok so there are the Robins, Black Redstarts, Meadow Pipits, White and Grey Wagtail, Chiffchaff, Stonechat, Blackcaps and Starlings which are very numerous. Besides that of course we can encounter Skylark, Song Thrush, Blackbird, maybe the other odd scarce thrush, Snipe, Moorhen, Water Rail, etc...what is common in all the species larger than a sparrow that we can see at this time of the year that I have mentioned? They can all get shot, and no matter how infrequent they are, every single bird that arrives here is shot"

I hope that you did not imply that; Robins, Black Redstarts, Meadow Pipits, White and Grey Wagtail, Chiffchaff, Stonechat, Blackcaps, are shot...cause I can assure you and anyone else that these species are surely never shot.

3. I understand that you may not be happy with the shooting of; skylarks, song thrush, and other birds that you may deem as too small...but they are eaten and are legal game in many countries. Apart from this removing them from the hunatble list would simply imply that effectively one cannot hunt. Would I go hunting at this time if song thrush, sky larks, and starlings were protected...no...the reason being that other species are so rarely encountered that I would not bother...I hunt every single day (coz I have the option of starting worker on during the day)...for song thrush, starlings and skylark...whilst hunting these species I keep a look put for the other rare huntable game (woodcock, moorhen, snipe, duck)...but I would not bother to specifically and excusively hunt these species.

4. You say that a balance is needed...don't you remember that previously we were able to hunt 32 species during spring, and that we could have hunted for 2 nwhole months...whilst presently we can only hunt 2 species for 3 weeks (till 3pm, and not on sundays and public holidays)...don't you remember that half of september has been cut short till 3pm? What more of a balance do you envisage...what more do you wnat us to give up?

5. Don't you remember when we could have hunted in many beaches whilst presently many have been declared off-limits?

6. " Unfortunately in Malta a balance can't really be reached in terms of these species because all the common hunt able species that could easily winter here never manage to do so due to hunting "

So using your argument what can we hunt since if I understood you correctly...we should not hunt the common huntable species...maybe thin air and dust particles.

As I said previously in remark 5. more than a balnce has been struck...and if you had to list the restrictions imposed on hunters since 1990 till today...you would see that the hunter has always seen bits and pieces of his passion eroded...and rarely have we been given something...and the only times we were given something was a scrap of what we had (eg. spring season...1st we lost everything then we were given back a small fraction) and never something new (eg. lamping of pest species such as rabbits, or the allowance of sea hunting from non motorised boats within 100m of the shoreline as is common in many countries)...

It is true that we may not see eye to eye...but that is surely not because hunters cannot accept a balance for we never protested against the protection of birds, the enlisting of nature reserves, the policies to curb illegal hunting (unless they impinged on legal hunting and were simply an excuse)....but simply because a balance for the antis implies that hunters lose something each year.

Steve Zammit

Nov 4th 2011, 16:05

1) Why did you fail to mention the other species apart from the Starling? The Starling arrives in thousands and spend a lot of time in urban areas while the others do not, but nonetheless they can all winter here if it wasn't for their shooting

2) NO I never implied that these birds were ever shot or trapped. Re-read my comment again. I just gave these birds ax examples that they do winter here, but anything larger then a sparrow and is hunt able: skylark, song thrush, blackbird,moorhen...etc... do not when they can

3) You are right, and i can't say that you are not. My argument was that in my humble opinion such birds would winter here and can be enjoyed by all if you don't shoot them all. And you know that this is the truth, we are just looking at the same issue from a different perspective. Just remember that Malta is so small, almost half the island is built up and we have a high density of hunters and bird migration can be poor or good depending much on the climatic conditions. Malta is not like Italy, I am sure that if I had to go to Italy, I will enjoy watching Song thrushes or see moorhens swim in the open, even though they are hunted , but there hunting isn't as intense as here because of the large land mass which means many birds still pass over and are not shot. On the contrary here wherever I go out , I see song thrushes getting shot and I can't watch Moorhens in valleys that support water because they are checked daily.

4) Yes so true, and since those restrictions came in force there were more birds in the countryside (as less were getting shot) during the spring to be enjoyed by all. Anyhow all l I expect is that hunting laws are obeyed by ALL and that I can enjoy my share of birds too.

5) Nope I don't remember, I'm not that old :-)

6) Fair enough

Anyhow to conclude Johnny, as you can see i am the only person on ToM that dedicated my time to reply back to you several times and enter a from of discussion and dialogue. Such 'debates' so to say are healthy and I enjoy writing and exchanging views on such a delicate subject as is hunting. No matter how much we write, there are some points we don't seem to agree on. Birdwatching is my passion (as hunting is yours) and I discovered this hobby on my own when I was still a young boy, and despite growing up in a society that in order to enjoy birds either meant shooting or trapping them, I still managed to find the thrill and excitement from 'just' watching them. In no way do I pretend hunters to turn into birdwatchers, but its only natural that from my side I speak up for the birds a bit more. thanks for reading and have a good day

Johnny Xerri

Oct 31st 2011, 19:48

Ruby Jenner,

Birds are kept in cages only during the open season, during closed seasons they are kept in aviaries.

Incidently do the people in your country refrain from hunting and trapping?

Johnny Xerri

Oct 31st 2011, 19:49

no...the election was in 2003...when hunting and trapping were promised only to improve...now it is delivery time...although it is way too little and way too late

Johnny Xerri

Oct 31st 2011, 19:52

well our skies remained bird less even during closed seasons during 2009, 2010...so not much of a change.

Maltese skies are birdless simply because Malta was not, is not and will never be on a major migratory route.

Johnny Xerri

Oct 31st 2011, 19:05

if hypocracy makes you sick then you should vote for any party that promises and delivers hunting seasons...after all hunting and trapping were promised during the referendum and election.

Johnny Xerri

Oct 31st 2011, 19:02

sour grapes...after the victory that many antis thought they had secured the only square one we will going to is the petty arguments and weeping

Charles Gauci

Oct 31st 2011, 20:27

Sur Xerri, talking of sour grapes, have you read the contributions of Clayton Borg, Jeffrey Vella, Stephen Frendo, and Joe Camilleri?

Johnny Xerri

Oct 31st 2011, 20:33

Yes I have...they only pointed out that the migration is nearly over....but next year will come and at least through this year's sacrifice we would have won the principle and next year the govt will have no excuse to open the season late...

Christina Pace

Nov 1st 2011, 11:32

sure YOU WON ONE BATTLE at the expense of birds. You always justify your hobby saying that no country in EU has no season for hunting/trapping. True enough though no other EU country is respite for all birds midrating north/south in spring/autumn LIKE MaltA IS. Future generations around Europe and AFrica will look back at you with didain knowing you were responsable for extinction of migrating species. Unfortunatley you won't be here to watch it.

Johnny Xerri

Nov 1st 2011, 04:43

Best of luck...AD will need it...they never ever garnered more then 2 pence worth of votes...

Serious and responasable govt do not take sides...they would refer to the Birds Directive and give hunters/trappers seasons in line with the directive...that way they would be offerring the best deal for both hunters/trappers and birdies...since the Directive is formulated to strick a delicate balance between the interests of hunters/trappers and the environment.

What is so irresponsable for you if the govt opens a season inline with the directive as all other EU Member States do?

Maybe you should for a party called AHP - Anti Hunting Party....with the slogan....Extrimists who don't give a hoot about the EU Birds Directive and the rights it gives to hunters.

Johnny Xerri

Oct 31st 2011, 20:17

rather bunny hugging...

I tend to prefer this

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8zws3-fAXlw

If the other EU countries can do it...then so can we...however, this news item is related to trapping...in which no shotguns are used....stick to the subject.