Update 2 - Abuse victims protest outside the Curia

Mrs Elizabeth Sammut

Sep 26th 2011, 15:42

The Church shares culpability. Worldwide the Church was fully aware of the abuse and did not stop it, but kept transferring the priests to abuse kids at other parishes. The welfare of the innocent was of no importance. The men who run the Church, the very Church that Christ shed his blood to establish, were more interested in hiding the disgusting abuse and saving the Church from the scandal. In the gospel reading in Church this morning, Christ admonished the chief priests that taxcollectors and prostitutes will get into heaven before Them. That admonishment still rings true today. I feel sick to my stomach.

Christina Pace

Sep 26th 2011, 09:25

This is an absolute scandal. At this point the clerical abuse surfacing is old news, and I don't mean to say that it is any less serious but now the priests have been convicted.
The scandal in my opinion is firstly the dismissal of the rape case on a technicality. The courts need to upgrade their protocols and if a crime is proven then there should be a conviction. The place is irrelevant. and if new evidence surfaces that indicates a crime that should be added to the accusation immediately. Having to se the end of the ruling to be able to file a new accusation is waste of time and money the Maltese civil service and courts have precious little of.

Secondly, it is outrageous that the church is choosing to ignore the victims' suffering as it is doing. I agree with the social aid and phychotherapy. As the old saying goes, teach me how to fish and I will never go hungry. However the churche needs to realize that it is too late to repair the social damage done to these people to the full. Sex abuse, expecially in minors, by an authority figure causes such mental hardship on the victims it effects their academic, social, inter- and intrapersonal development. The wretched truth od what happened behind closed doors will haunt them and chase them all their life. Often chasing them out of jobs, meaningful friendships, intimate relationships and successful careers. Basically these victims never stand a chance of being as well adjusted as your average Maltese person. They will never be able to rely on their own means like most of us do.

The Churchg should put its money where its mouth is and fork out the necessary cash so these people can have a future better than the past it reluctantly chose to let them have. The vartican is probably one of a handful of states that has not experienced so much in the way of a recession, so there shouldn't be a problem.

Incidentally, I would like to ask anyone who is informed of law...is it true sex is legal at 12 years old within the vatican or is it just a rumour?

Ms D Galea

Sep 25th 2011, 22:39

Not so long ago , the abuse victims swore that they were not interested in financial compensation but in getting an apology from His Holiness the Pope and the church in Malta and in getting their lives back in track.

They got the apologies, the abusers have been sentences and the church is offering to provide professional services to help them get on with their lives.

Now It is the money that they are after. Either that or else they excommunicate themselves as well.

Spending years in expensive and stressful court litigation is hardly conducive to their earlier claim of symply wanting to heal their psychological scars and getting on with their lives for their sake and that of their dependants.

Further comments are superfluous.

Lawrence Grech

Sep 25th 2011, 15:03

manistax nemen kief qad ghawn nies qadhom lura u jatu il verita
Lawrence grech

Mr Joe Xuereb

Sep 25th 2011, 13:05

'Sow the breeze and reap a hurricane'.
Victims of priestly sex abuse need psychotherapy, I imagine a rare resource in very Catholic Malta given that at the base of the malaise is religion. For this reason alone, victimes of priestly sex abuse need all the money they can get and spend it on healing a deep and festering wound - a wound of a heavily invested soul in people who let them down. Hence the scandal. And collusion and complicity by the Church there has been aplenty. I say this because no, child abuse by a grandad and the guy at the corner shop is shameful but NOT scandalous. Scandalous is when the abuse is commited by a priest because believers invest their whole being in him. Hence the scandal. Hence the shaking of one's soul to the very foundations.
The Church could, indeed must, vet its prospective clergy to make sure they are sexually sound, be they hetero, homo, or paedo. If it does this conscientiously - oh dear! where have all the vowing takers gone?!

Brian Azzopardi

Sep 25th 2011, 08:38

What I suspect is this....... the Church will not give compensation because by doing so it will encourage other persons who were abused to come forward and not stay in the shadows anymore . A lot of sweeping 'under neat the carpet' took place in the past and they are now terrified of taking the carpet off. Again it will fail miserably as what is making more people come forward is not that people are more courageous but mentality has changed and it will continue to change and change will sweep the Church. But as always the Church will change, not by its free will (because history has taught us that the Church always championed ignorance) but because situations will drag and force it screeching and screaming to change.
Up to a few years ago no one dared to speak, than we had some who came forward, now after refusing to say 'mia culpa' it has been forced to utter it ...........in the future it will accept to give financial compensation. What the Maltese Church has done again in this situation is that it has calculated its financial loss first and its moral loss second. Nothing new!

Mr david debattista

Sep 25th 2011, 08:20

I was of the opinion that the sex offenders are responsible for any financial compensation, I STILL DO.
However I now realize that the church has that obligation and responsibility too. As for the charges of rape being dropped on a point of technicality WHAT A SICK JOKE. IF it took place, IT took place and rape is still an internationally recognized crime. Stop all this technical maneuvering it makes all of us SICK. SHAME ON THE COURTS OF MALTA. As for the victims FIGHT ON , YOU DID NOT ASK TO BE SEXUALLY ABUSED !
Give me a break !

Andrea Giallombardo

Sep 25th 2011, 03:48

Get over it already, you aren't the only ones with problems. Justice was served and now let it be! They're asking for too much now! If only people with problems as bad as this or worse (and mind you, there are so many more worse problems in the world) can get compensation and make a scene about them as much as they are!

C Muscat

Sep 25th 2011, 03:20

He pointed out that abroad, in almost identical cases, the Church had awarded financial compensation, mostly in out-of-court settlements.

In Malta these victims and their consultants managed the media in a way that their financial request was based on the PR created and not negotiated. It will be wrong with the church to compensate these victims at such a late stage of the court proceedings; first of all the case is still sub judice and these went only to the criminal court when in most cases the victims will commence civil case and in this part of justice that could have been negotiated.

I have seen some information in a case or two and it has been a lot different from these; the money paid most of it did not go to the victims but to other sources.

I have had seen the dead priest working so actively throughout his life (before being removed by these allegations) and so many youths benefitted from his work to have our youths involved in sports and not on drugs and other bad habits that in my opinion our society lost a lot of good effort from someone that dedicated his life for the good of so many. The good die young; maybe the good like everyone makes some mistake.

From my remarks. From day one I said that this case was being build up for the money compensation. I conclude that any money used (directly or for professional services for all victims) should be available to all including victims that have been abused by relatives and friends.

If the victims wanted the chapter to be closed quickly they should have worked from day one for the money and not to create hatred for the church.

Joseph W. Galea

Sep 25th 2011, 01:04

And if they are all given money, all the 'scars will automatically go away'. It's all about the money.

The Church should stand fast and when sued, they should demand witnesses to the accusation.
Actual, on the spot verifiable witnesses.

Mr Joseph Carmel Chetcuti

Sep 25th 2011, 00:27

The MSSP has a nice place in Royal parade Parkville Victoria. Take it off them!

Mr Ernest Vella

Sep 24th 2011, 23:54

ghal flus anke l-misthija tmur!!!

Ms Lynn Zahra

Sep 24th 2011, 23:49

@Clive Aquilina Spagnol:

Clive, comments arguing against compensation for these victims are expected from people who do not have a legal background, but from you, a lawyer, I expected much better.

Judy Jones

Sep 24th 2011, 23:44

These victims are very brave for not giving up to expose the truth, get justice, and protect kids.

Click the link to read the 80 page complaint which SNAP "Survivors Network of those Abused by Priests" and the CCR turned over to the "International Criminal Court", at the Hague in the Netherlands on Tuesday, Sept. 13th.

We urge anyone who has knowledge, or has been harmed by clergy, teachers, volunteers, employees, within any diocese to speak up,, contact police and turn over any evidence or documents to the prosecutor of the International Criminal Court.

The sex abuse of children and the cover up of these crimes within the catholic system is still going on today. Children will never be safe until the church officials and leaders are held accountable for enabling, empowering, and protecting predator clergy.

We are hoping the ICC will take our case against the pope and 3 high ranking Vatican officials for committing crimes against humanity.
This is the only way for victims to see justice, expose the truth, and therefore protect kids today.


Judy Jones, SNAP Midwest Associate Director, USA, 636-433-2511
snapjudy at gmail dot com
"Survivors Network of those Abused by Priests"
snapnetwork dot org

Judy Jones

Sep 24th 2011, 23:40

These victims are very brave for not giving up on exposing the truth and protecting kids.

Once again the pope is doing his PR tactic to make it look like he cares about victims and children. He feels 'deeply shaken" but he still takes no action to hold church officials accountable for covering up crimes against kids, so the abuse still continues today.

Click the link to read the 80 page complaint which SNAP "Survivors Network of those Abused by Priests" and the CCR turned over to the "International Criminal Court", at the Hague in the Netherlands on Tuesday, Sept. 13th. http://nationbuilder.s3.amazonaws.com/snap/pages/795/attachments/original/FINALSNAPWORD.pdf?1315913668

We urge anyone who has knowledge, or has been harmed by clergy, teachers, volunteers, employees, within any diocese to speak up,, contact police and turn over any evidence or documents to the prosecutor of the International Criminal Court.

The sex abuse of children and the cover up of these crimes within the catholic system is still going on today. Children will never be safe until the church officials and leaders are held accountable for enabling, empowering, and protecting predator clergy.

We are hoping the ICC will take our case against the pope and 3 high ranking Vatican officials for committing crimes against humanity.
This is the only way for victims to see justice, expose the truth, and therefore protect kids today.

Judy Jones, SNAP Midwest Associate Director, USA, 636-433-2511
snapjudy@gmail.com
"Survivors Network of those Abused by Priests"
http://www.snapnetwork.org/

David Vella

Sep 24th 2011, 23:32

When I was young, was often beaten up by a teacher infront of rest of classmates!! Whom do I have to sue?????

John Cassar

Sep 24th 2011, 22:27

The church is shirking away from its legal duty of care. Remember these children were placed in the church's care.

The church in Malta never misses an opportunity to miss an opportunity.

Mario Camilleri

Sep 24th 2011, 21:14

Meta naqra ċerti kummenti ninnota kemm hawn faqar fil-mentalita, arroganza u ppokrezija.
Nistaqsi, li kieku dawn il-vitmi kienu huma jew uliedhom, jitkellmu bl-istess ton? Jiddefenduha l-istituzzjoni tal-knisja? Jew kulħadd jiġbed lejn xawwatu?

L-ipokrezija tirrenja f'dan il-pajjiż Kattoliku Ruman li jemmen li jrid jgara l-ġebel avolja ma jkunx jaf għalxix qed igara. Imma allaħares tġara lilu!!

L-istituzzjoni tal-knisja m'hix responsabbli ta' xi uħud għal għemilhom hekk qalet il-kurja.
Mela l-membri reliġjużi jistgħu jagħmlu li jridu għax m'hemm ħadd fuqhom. Imbagħad lil Parti Mark waqfuh milli JGĦID u mhux JAGĦMEL dak li jħoss. Qassin oħra li qażżu lil kuħadd bil-kitbiet maħmuġin u moqżieża tagħhom u oħrajn li għamlu sfreġju politiku kif ukoll oħrajn li riċentament indaħħlu fejn ma jsaħhomx billi għamlu repetizzjoni tas-60 ijiet, imberek Alla jitħallew iħanżru. Skont dan li qed jingħad mill-kurja huwa li jistgħu jagħmlu dak li jħossu u mhux kulħadd xortih tajba jitħalla jgħid dak li jidhirlu li huwa tajjeb jew aħjar dak li verament ikun sewwa.
Li niskanta jien hija li l-knisja fejn jidħlu l-flus tinqasam f'dipartimenti u tara kif tagħmel biex ma tiżloq u tiżgiċċa mill-obligi finanzjarji tagħha. Imma jekk il-knisja tibda titlef mill-parruċani hemm issir "Dar t'Alla".
Jien nemmen f'Alla għax dak huwa sidi, il-knisja għalija m'hija xejn għajr ISTITUZZJONI finazjarja u b'saħħitha.
Kieku Ġesu Kristu kellu jiġi llum fid-dinja jispaċċa waħdu ma terz tal-popolazzjoni. Il-kumplament jgħidilhom "fariżej" u joħloq infern għalihom.

Shaun Camilleri

Sep 24th 2011, 21:09

Greedy church!!! All it wants is money for this, money for that, and it give nothing in return to these poor fellows!!

Charles J. Buttigieg

Sep 24th 2011, 20:30

Where there's blame there's a claim.

Mr francis darmanin

Sep 24th 2011, 20:24

Some years ago there was a poor chap who had spent three years in prison and driven to the point of insanity and only decades later he managed to get monetary compensation...nobody seemed to have opposed this although it was the Government that forked out the money.

If I recall the same with those two victimes of terrible crimes, one who was shot in a PN club and the other killed by a parcel bomb. Asking for financial compenation is nothing to be ashamed of. I can think of more trivial matters for requesting financial compensation such as having a holiday hotel near a building site which I have witnessed local companies fork out money for to tourists. And after all during mass what does that guy who comes around with the plate before communion, isn't it for money?

Victor Gelfo

Sep 24th 2011, 20:20

This case is smelling more fishy with time. I can smell that the intentions of the so called victims are being known now. Why have the victims asked compensation from the Church and not from Pulis and Scerri who commited the crimes? This is a pertinent question. Is it because the Church can offer more than Pulis and Scerri?
I am starting to doubt the sincere motive of these people!

Mr Robert Callus

Sep 24th 2011, 20:03

Blaming the victims is utterly disgusting. If you think the church doesn't have an obligation to pay - with which I strongly disagree - fair enough.

But to minimize the suffering these people went and are still going through, or accuse them of doing it for money is literally shameful.

And most of you will be flocking to the church tomorrow, maybe spare a prayer for all the people who are suffering. Ignoring the suffering you are inflicting.

A. Farrugia

Sep 24th 2011, 19:54

Wise words those spoken by V. Cassar.

What he says I understand to be the exact position taken by the Church authorities...
while the Church is offering to pay (expensive!) psychological, psychiatric and social work services for anyone who suffers abuse through its functionaries, any claim for monetary compensation needs to pass the test of Civil Courts.

Why should Laurence Grech and his friends be above the Law?

After all the criminal case is still to be decided according to law, since there is an appeal (which makes the matter 'sub judice' for now). If they ought to be financially compensated then the Court will see to it that they will be... all they need to do is ask it: ie 'open' a Civil action like every other citizen in this country can do.

Of course the Church would want this nightmare to be over as quickly as possible, but it is shameful for some to try to attract popular sympathy to put pressure on the Church to divest the money it channels towards the most needy in society towards those who demand a payoff to shut up and let go.

Claire Busuttil

Sep 24th 2011, 19:42

interessanti.....il knisja hawn, qeda tibza li kull min garrab xi abbuz min xi membru taghha, titlob kumpenz finanzjarju.....u allura ikun riskju sejru, li il knisja titneza, mil gid u rikkezzi li ghandha!!

jekk ma tridx tatijhom kumpenz finanzjajru, tal anqas, toffrilom servizzi ta counselers.

Mr Clive Aquilina Spagnol

Sep 24th 2011, 18:22

The more I read and hear about the victims, the more I will start siding with the Church. Now they want money...everybody likes ready made pappa!!!

Mr J. Bonnici

Sep 24th 2011, 18:22

There's no way the Curia is going to win this one. By the time the issue is settled the Church would be left to lick its wounds whilst people of goodwill would shudder at the thought that they once formed part of this institution.

Mr C Busuttil

Sep 24th 2011, 18:13

This story has always been about money, the church should not pay for the mistakes of individuals.

PS- Can somebody tell me how a priest that abuses you as a young boy is the same priest you choose to marry you?

Marcel Avellino

Sep 24th 2011, 17:56

Meta kont l-iskola, xi 38 sena ilu, qlajt xebgha 'ruler' minghand ir-rettur ghax kont imqareb. Dalwaqt infittex l-iskola ghas -sofferenza li hassejt!! u nahseb ha nitlob kumpens ta miljun ewro!

Mr Vincent Cassar

Sep 24th 2011, 17:46

Well,what can one expect. The sense of lawlessness and superior sense that local institutions are above the law is symptomatic in Catholic Malta. At the end of the day it should not be the victims or the church do decide whether they should get a compensation or not. The church is no more important than other institutions and should not be given any preferential treatment. Both parties should go to a civil law court and let it be decided there in the most rational and impartial mode as possible. What a civil law court decides will bind both parties. This is a secular country, or should be, and the church has no right to decide for itself when another party is involved.

Rosalind Agius

Sep 24th 2011, 17:38

Shame on the church.

Maryann Borg

Sep 24th 2011, 17:28

The Church has AGAIN lost an opportunity to show that care and charity are more important values than money. I am saddened by the image the Church continues to give itself...faux pas after faux pas!

By doing the right thing a powerful message could have been given that the Church condemns abuse and will do all it can to heal the hurt, and make sure Church institutions do not habour abusers.
Now it will be shamed internationally and nationally.

Steve Mizzi

Sep 24th 2011, 17:16

An organisation is responsible for the actions of it's employees especially when you have a case like this when just a few months before being charged, one of the convicted Priests was absolved by the "Response Team" and sent back to do his dirty deeds with the ironic statement "Go and be a good father".

Since you cannot put an organisation itself in prison, the only remedy left to a victim is to seek monetary compensation.

Whatever the case, the strategy being employed by the Curia is incompatible with the Christian philosophy as laid down in the New Testament.

All the comments stating that they sympathized with the victims up to the point in time that monetary compensation came to the picture indicate to me that the people posting such comments are suffering from a warped case of jealousy were they feel good feeling sorry for someone less fortunate then themselves, but the claws come out the moment that that same person is in a position to maybe improve his/her lot.

David Caruana

Sep 24th 2011, 17:11

The Curia has put out its faithful hounds to discredit Lawrence Grech and Co.

Those who's got brains know well enough that financial compensation is their right.

Don't give up Mr.Grech!

Joseph Zammit

Sep 24th 2011, 17:10

If these victims have been wronged - and I believe they have been - then
they should be compensated. There is no way that one can undo a
wrong and so financial compensation is usually resorted to. This is recognized by all Courts in democratic countries where damages are
payable.

Then there are also moral obligations, apart from legal ones, and the Church is an authority on morality.

Truly, I thought that the wind of change was blowing through the Maltese
Church since we are no longer living in the 20th century. Perhaps we need a hurricane!

c p agius

Sep 24th 2011, 17:09

Why did the church appologise in the first place? Isn't it sending double messages by acceopting moral responsilibity yet shrugging off legal responsibility...........The chuirch is shooting in its own leg.

Unless the Maltese church considers the financial aspect of this ordeal as its major concern, it should follow in the footsteps of other dioceses around the world and refrain from further emberrasing herself

Mr carlos ellul

Sep 24th 2011, 16:49

To one who strikes you on the cheek, offer the other also, and from one who takes away your cloak do not withhold your tunic[a] either.Give to everyone who begs from you, and from one who takes away your goods do not demand them back. Luke 6 29-30

I guess that part of speech was reserves to the poor plebs and in well selected arguments like illegal immigration. God forbid that the Malta church abide to that.

Mr Carmelo Aquilina

Sep 24th 2011, 16:32

All you idiots who insist that this was all about money know nothing about the damage done to these people - and if asking for money is wrong then why do other Catholic churches elsewhere pay money ? Is our holier-than-thou Church the only special case in the World where abuse is self-investigated in secret and grudging apology is followed by mealy mouthed offers of 'help'. Shame ! The people who are abused should take this all the way ot the European Court and we will see its decision will tallyw iththe suprisingly convenient legal advice the church has been given.

David Caruana

Sep 24th 2011, 16:27

Don't take care of the nonsense in the comments below, Mr.Grech

Monetary compensation is YOUR RIGHT and it does not make your case any less genuine.

Most of us are behind you on this, and remember to keep your head high!

Philip Hili

Sep 24th 2011, 16:10

To Mr. Lawrence Grech - the spokesman of the victims.

Now you should be ashamed and hide your identity because although through out the whole issue you seemed to be a genuine person so much so you convinced almost ALL Malta and Gozo that you are fighting a just cause, you have LOST all credibility.

Kevin Camilleri

Sep 24th 2011, 16:01

This has ALWAYS been done for money!

Mr Joseph Huber

Sep 24th 2011, 15:57

I fully supported the plight of these victims and am firmly convinced nothing is going to really alleviate completely the psychological and social harm done to them and their families. However these last actions have made me change my mind completely because it has become clear that their aim is no longer mental and moral healing but purely materialistic interests. Not to mention that I have a hunch that behind all these moves there is some hidden agenda!!!

Mr Angelo Vassallo

Sep 24th 2011, 15:48

Now I am 'disappointed, surprised and disgusted' with the way these gentlemen are behaving. As I have said before, all they want now is the "pound of flesh" and nothing else. What they really want is vengeance and not justice, although justice has already been done.

Philip Hili

Sep 24th 2011, 15:48

One of the posters carried by the victims reads:- "APOLOGIJA U PASTIZZI MHUX BIZZEJJED"

It would had made more sense had this poster was:-

"Apologija, Pastizzi U KUMPENS mhux bizzejjed"

Stick to your legal advice Mgs Cremona. Now all Malta and Gozo are aware that these people were and are after easy money. No financial compensation from the Curia's side is going to heal their grievances. Now let the pushers who used them compensate them.

What would had been the reaction of some blogers had the church issued back dated bills for the services they received while they were in her custody?

victor caruana

Sep 24th 2011, 15:45

The hardest thing to do in Malta is to make the church pay out and loose some of its ill gotten wealth.

Michel Bencini

Sep 24th 2011, 15:33

It is impossible to put a financial estimate on moral wrong doing. Would it be fair to charge 30 pieces of silver or 330? How much does it take to ensure that the punishment fit the crime? And if enough pecuniary compensation were to be meted out would it satisfy or assuage the moral barometer? Is this about the profit and loss sheet of a non profit orgainzation or about coming to terms with deep seethed evil in some individuals and its impact on unfortunate victims? Who has the answer? Is there an answer?

Vincent Farrugia

Sep 24th 2011, 15:32

Xi darba kont nisimpatizza imma issa li lewwel tlabtu ghall gustizzja u issa qed titolbu kumpess dan idahhali dubji serji ghax il-verita hargest mhux gustizza imma flus sorry il-lobgha taghkom mitlufa u irtiraw acettaw ir-realta. Laghbtu bil-kliem u bin-nies anzzi jien tqarraqt. STOP ghax tliftu l-argumenti kollha.

Mr Albert Gauci Cunningham

Sep 24th 2011, 15:31

the Church has a lot to do if it wants to win back any credibility. What about the latest news of fervent Nationalists taking over RTK news?? Is the Church in cahoots with the PN again? Is RTK to become a voice of Gonzi?? If the Bishop or politico-priests want the PN to win again they had better spit out their agenda now before they dig into their "Grave" even further! Shame on the church and shame on the Curia!!

Mr M Mamo

Sep 24th 2011, 15:16

SO when they are compensated all their wounds will heal because that's all they are protesting for ... whilst condemning the abuses, I am now starting to believe all this is aimed for the money!

Kenneth Abela

Sep 24th 2011, 15:14

Since Church accounts have adequatly showed that Church funds have become limited, who would fork out the money if a settlement is made ? Presumably the faithful would be then expected to pay from their own pockets for the abuse of the few ( a few too many) priests. I doubt the faithful would be willing to do that.

Mr B. Fenech

Sep 24th 2011, 14:54

So it's all for the money ehh? 'Wounds' are kept open, just for the money.

DAVID D. PACE

Sep 24th 2011, 14:33

Well amazing how for the anti-divorce campaign it seemed 'money no problem' but for such damaging cases from church clergy members in its own institutions, the church chooses to shoulder responsibility......Kif tista' ma ccempilx???

Nathan Azzopardi

Sep 24th 2011, 14:31

Of course, a fat cheque, not making sure that the two individuals who abused you - and the institution that had put its trust in them - get what they deserve (now that they are appealing), is a fool-proof way of ensuring closure.

Mr Joseph Aquilina

Sep 24th 2011, 14:27

"Dr Valentino said the victims were scarred for life and their suffering was not time-barred. Some of them could not work or have normal family life"

Which is why they need psychological help!! Or maybe Dr. Valentino thinks that buying material stuff (ex: a new car, a second house, etc) will help them?

Joseph Borg

Sep 24th 2011, 14:27

Just sue the priests personally!!

Michael Seychell

Sep 24th 2011, 14:26

Quote "He pointed out that abroad, in almost identical cases, the Church had awarded financial compensation, mostly in out-of-court settlements".

Dr. Valentino who made the above statement, should keep in mind that the Church in Malta cannot be compared to the Church in the USA or even Ireland where its members are counted in millions and not in less than a quarter of a million church-goers.

Furthermore as already stated by Mr. F.H.Said the Church lost most of its financial resources back in the seventies and eighties, and today most of the Church institutions make ends meet only through the generosity of the few, thus any financial payment on this issue may mean that institutions like Dar tal-Providenza and many others may be hit very negatively if not become mortally wounded.

As I said before the victims should stand with their first argument when they went public about their horrible experience, when they had claimed that they were not after financial gain.

Michael Seychell
Tal-Pieta

Charles J. Buttigieg

Sep 24th 2011, 14:25

Apologies are free,financial compensations mean 'put your money where your mouth is'.

John Spiteri

Sep 24th 2011, 14:25

I regret that certian doubts that I had about all this charade seem to have been justified!

Gustav Svensson

Sep 24th 2011, 14:25

SHAME ON THE CHURCH. Unbelivable and spineless.

Mr Joseph Aquilina

Sep 24th 2011, 14:21

It seems that Dr Valentino does not know the saying "Give a man a fish and you feed him for a day. Teach a man to fish and you feed him for a lifetime"!! Unlike what he is saying, the Church is shouldering its moral obligations by providing the psychological help that the VICTIMS claimed they needed!! Now things are becoming clear, what these victims wnated was not justice, but an easy buck!! They would not have said anything unless they thought they where in to get something back! and that is very said!

Mr A. E. ABELA

Sep 24th 2011, 14:20

Oh just take the guilty verdict to an international court. Locally they run the show and it seems, in the current situation, the church is omnipotent so getting compensation is like trying to draw blood from a pebble.

Victor Pace

Sep 24th 2011, 14:14

I feel ashamed of the Maltese church's treatment of these abuse victims. Throughout, it has been minimalist, ungenerous, legalistic and short sighted. It has tried to ignore the issue, and been very slow to respond, and now this. Why would they want to avail themselves of the Church's counselling support when they have ben treated so badly?

There is an undertone in many responses on this news item that actually the victims were somehow to blame. The Church may not be legally accountable under Maltese law, but surely it is morally accountable, and make a generous at last? In the sermon of the Mount, Jesus said, "if someone wishes to go to law to have your tunic, let him have your cloak as well". (Matthew 5, 40). We are being far less generous tothose who have suffered under our institutions than Christ asks us to be to those who are querelous for no reason.

Ian Saliba

Sep 24th 2011, 14:12

O I see -- so this merely boils down to an issue of financial compensation? Unamused...

Mr Anthony Borg

Sep 24th 2011, 13:57

Last time I checked St.Joseph home in St.Venera was owned by the Church in Malta.
Its personnel (catholic priests) administered their various functions through the Church.
Therefore the Church Curia is responsible – notwithstanding the legal loopholes that lawyers try to twist away from.

Mr Joseph Calleja

Sep 24th 2011, 13:56

This is a matter for the courts to decide. The church is not going to volunteer to hand out money to these victims. They spent most of it on the anti divorce campaign, almost 200,000 euros of it. And the church who is not responsible for the deeds of it's pedophile priests spent thousands for their defense. As I recall even Bishop Scicluna agreed that these victims are entitled to monetary compensation. Now comes the truth and the Curia is saying that they don't owe the men anything except psychological care. So let the courts decide if these men are entitled to any monetary help. The church in Malta is still very powerful religiously and politically and Dr Valentino cannot go by what the church did outside of Malta. The church outside of Malta does not dictate to governments, unless it is a third world country where the church is the government. Where else would two convicted pedophiles be kept out of prison pending their appeal? Maybe this case has to go all the way up to the EU courts after all?

K. Vella

Sep 24th 2011, 13:54

Money, money, money and only money will overcome their pain and not the justice.

From the start, the intention was to go for the money.

Why don't the victims go to get the money from those who abused!

Mr Joseph Cauchi Senior

Sep 24th 2011, 13:53

Many are commenting that these “victims” are only after the money!

I wouldn’t blame them, because how are they going to pay their legal advisers ?

Is it perhaps the American way, i.e. a cut from the compensation money that these “victims” were led to believe to be theirs?

This situation could be a “slight” problem to the attornies, perhaps!

JC.

Mr J Busuttil

Sep 24th 2011, 13:41

Yes it's all about money you just lost you credibility.

Alex Falzon

Sep 24th 2011, 13:40

So if monetary compensation is rewarded to victims.... do these so called victims forget about their past as if nothing happens? I believe that these victims can earn their wage at the end of the month as they did so far...
The church is right not to give compensation... abusers should give them

Marianne Tabone

Sep 24th 2011, 13:28

Jien nistaqsi u l-flus se jfejqulhom il-wegghat li sofrew? Biex dawn ifiqu jew l-ugiegh jitnaqqas mhux flus ghandhom bzonn imma ghajnuna! Il-Knisja qeghda toffri din l-ghajnuna. Ghaliex din ir-rieda li jithallsu? Ma nistax nifhem issa.

Ms Lynn Zahra

Sep 24th 2011, 13:28

Mons.Cremona , it is sad to see you, our bishop, playing Mind games that lawyers normally play.

Guy Mahoney

Sep 24th 2011, 13:08

I fully support the stand the church is taking. Whilst I fully appreciate the plight of those abbused and condemn those that inflicted these abuses I cannot sympathyise with their intentions to demand compensation from the church itself. If anything they should seek compensation from those who abused them.

If a lay person (just an ordinary person) abuses a child and is found guilty can the vicitm claim compensation from the state because he is a citizen of that country?

Some contributors mentioned the possibility of some hidden agendas. This might be true but if so I suspect that this hidden agend is not by the victims but by others who are trying to manipulate them.

There is no doubt that there are several people who would find the church as an obstacle to what they want or want to achieve and it is up to the faithful to speak up and make their voices heard.

I repeat that I fully condemn the abuses inflicted upon these victims and the law should see that the appropriate punishment is given to those found guilty.

C. Attard

Sep 24th 2011, 13:08

Shame on you Archbishops of Malta and Gozo
Shame on the lawyer who gave you such advice

Look at this article, open up your eyes what is happening in other catholic dioceses around Europe

http://www.monstersandcritics.com/news/europe/news/article_1642422.php/Belgian-bishops-approve-compensation-for-church-sex-abuse-victims

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/northamerica/usa/8408229/Jesuits-pay-166m-compensation-to-sexual-abuse-victims.html

http://blogs.reuters.com/faithworld/2011/09/22/irish-catholic-church-may-tap-parishes-for-pay-for-sexual-abuse-claims/


Your statement that the Catholic Church in Malta does not have any responsibility to compensate sexual
abuse victims, keeps lapsed catholics away from the Church......

jekk il-knisja ma ghandix flus....
tbiegh id-dehbijiet, il-fidda, ir-rikezzi l-ohra
jekk hemm bzonn thott il-knejjes tal-gebel
u tibni l-knejjes tal-laham.....

Mr Ernest Vella

Sep 24th 2011, 13:07

Min fejn tippretendu li l-Knisja ggib il-flus li jippretendu dawn in-nies? Jekk iridu l-flus, il-Knisja tatihomlom anke jekk jehtieg twaqqaf is-servizzi taghha bhal ma huma d-Dar tal-Providenza, Il-Creche ta l-Ursolini, id-djar tat-tfal, djar ta l-anzjani, il-festi u tant hidma ohra f'Malta li sal-lum il-Knisja tmexxihom bit-telf hafna drabi. Dawn qed jimmaginaw li l-Knisja hija sinjura, meta ma jafux li r-rikezzi li hemm fil-Knisja huma tal-Knisja kollha, cioe ta' kull min hu nisrani...u l-ebda isqof m'ghandu l-jedd ibiegh dawn l-affarijiet ghal kumpens ta dawn in-nies.

Il-Knisja ghaliex ghandna terfa r-responsabilta meta huwa l-hati li jrid jaghmel dan. Din bhal kaz ta l-hekk imsejjha vittmi politici...b'liema jedd il-Gvern kien qabad il-flus tal-poplu u taghhom lil familjari tal-vittmi meta il-poplu ma kienx jahti ta l-atti li saru kontra l-istess poplu.

Imbaghad x'missier hu dak il-missier li jhalli lil persuna li kien abbuza lilu ibieriklu z-zwieg u jghammidlu lil uliedu. Missier responsabli ibieghed lil uliedu mill-periklu u mhux ihallih imiss lil uliedu. Din ta l-abbuzi m'hi tikkonvincini xejn...wisq izjed issa li qed jehduha b'akkaniment ghal flus. Dawn iridu jaghmlu hsara lil Knisja imma f'wicchom ha jibqa.

Joe Camilleri

Sep 24th 2011, 13:07

They may have been abused and that is very bad but abusing the church is equally bad. The church is made up of the faithful who cannot be kept responsible for the acts of individuals.
By the way, does money heal wounds?

Pio Sultana

Sep 24th 2011, 12:56

i thought that the curia always taught us that moral obligations prevail on legal ones. How come curia now is seeking refuge behind legality?? I guess the singer does not always go by his song does he?

On the other hand, the victims should offer their compensation to charity if they want to prove their genuineness
pio sultana.

Josef Ebejer

Sep 24th 2011, 12:55

What it has to do compensation with a child abuse!!!!! I cannot understand this myself…..……justice is more then enough. Perhaps you do not agree with me ….But I wish to air my personal view.

Our Bishops offer was more then enough.

I quote “that it is setting up a structure to provide psychiatric, psychological and social help to any individuals who proved to be victims of its pastoral functionaries, “
God knows what they have gone through these two priests throughout these 20 years years…and surve them right !!!!! …justice is enough and I do not pity them in no way…...when ordinary men abuse of children do they ask compensation out of them……justice prevails….…did we copy this issue from abroad for compensation? …I knew before long that this issue was to end up with a profit?

I know of a different version of abuse this time with a particular nun…who bless her soul wherever she is ….this happened more then 20 years ago…(perhaps that is why one cannot ask for compensation) where which two elderly brothers never accepted Gimpel the fool ….….but because this young brother was feeble the nun in question used to tag him with a note on his back “stupid” and takes him around different class rooms. Is this not another way of child abuse. And this guy was me….Thank God these things are over now….

To my opinion our bishops have done more then enough to these abused victims. Dr. Valentino do not be “disgusted” with the church….if you believe in it….one cannot generalize after all. Only you can say how many different cases you defended on different aspects.

Joseph Calleja

Sep 24th 2011, 12:51

the action of the Church is well in order.
it is shouldering responsibility for setting up funds that help these victims and their families in what they need: psychological and social, and I believe also educational. So the responsibility is there and it is taken. It is still alleged since there is an appeal still standing and since we live in a democracy, that is a right and needs to be observed.
whoever thinks that Mount Carmel forensic unit is preferential treatment, should go and assess for him/herself what it is like to be there.
this was all about money from the start and the whole hype has ow become truly disgusting.
saying that there was money for divorce and not for abusers is an insult to all those who during the years (including the victims) lived on Church funds and donations received.

J Vassallo

Sep 24th 2011, 12:46

ma nafx alfejn il knisja qed tara bi kbira biex thallas !!
jintefqu tant flus fuq paganizmu u tizjin fil knejjes. u jekk tinkiser xi ligi dejjem ikun emm multi u jek ma thallasx tehilom habs!

Mr George Calleja

Sep 24th 2011, 12:45

From the look of things these people have lost credibility . They are all after money and are discarding the Church' s help. If they think that they were abused they should ask compensation from the those who abused them ONLY. The Church never abused them. On the contrary it offered free shelter and love which should have been given by their parents.

Mr Robert Callus

Sep 24th 2011, 12:34

It's incredibly disgusting that some people here are accusing the VICTIMS for asking for financial compensation. Even implying it's all about money!

No amount of money in the world will give back to these victims what was taken from them. But it's the least one can do.

adrian attard

Sep 24th 2011, 12:33

With such poor arguments, you will have very few admirers... similar to Bondi+ programme!

Mario Busuttil

Sep 24th 2011, 12:31

Kulma jmur dejjem nara li hemm xi tip ta' agenda ohra wara dak li qed titolbu... l-ewwel tistqarru li qed titlobu gustizzja u xejn flus... u issa tharsu biss lejn il-flus li l-argument ghaliex triduhom ma hu konvintenci xejn.

Alfred Fenech

Sep 24th 2011, 12:16

pay up like others did. If there was money for NO AGAINST DIVORCE < then there should be more money
in the curia's pocket. Aghmel tbissima fuq wichom.

Joe Naudi

Sep 24th 2011, 12:13

I am disgusted to read that the Catholic Church in Malta that it had legal advice that as an institution ( the childrens' home) it bore no legal reponsibility for the abuse of cases. Why not than close all the churches. So now the church can do what they like and get away with it, I just do not believe. God will surely condemn the church in Malta the way it is run. Anyone who abuses children whether it is the church or not should be held responsible, whether it is an institution or not. I think the church in Malta have lost their marbles.

Joe Naudi

P Borg

Sep 24th 2011, 12:10

Was this all about the money?

Mr A. Mizzi

Sep 24th 2011, 12:05

Knisja li veru tixraq lil-Pajjiz tal-Mickey Mouse.....fl-istess nifs illi l-Papa Benedettu li ltaqa mal-vittmi Maltin ABBUZATI MILL MINISRI TIEGHU STESS qieghed jiltaqa' ma vittmi ohra abbuzati fil-mawra tieghu il-Germanja!

Ghandha ghal fejn tibki il-Madonna!

Mohabf Fahmi

Sep 24th 2011, 11:53

it's truly amazing how the church never seems to shoulder any responsibility. whilst it's there to care for the souls of men, it also seems to specialize in intricate methods of putting them off! so much for Christian compassion!

FRANS H SAID

Sep 24th 2011, 11:53

STOP WANTING MONEY

The idea that the church is rich is false. The treasures in parishes do not belong to the curia. They belong to the faithful of the respective churches. At one time the church might have had tangible funds but then Mintoff had taken over all lands and buildings. Now the church struggles to support Id-dar tal-Provvidenza and other important humane activities.

The curia cannot, and will not be allowed to dip its hands in other’s properties.

If you want your pound of flesh insist:
A That Criminal action be taken against ALL those who were allegedly involved in the cover up, including Archbishop Cremona.
B. Insist that all those involved should resign with immediate effect, even if the Vatican does not accept their resignations.

C. You can also insist with the Govt to set up an ad hoc fund for ALL victims, irrespective of the perpetrators.
D. You should insist that the Courts act with speed and not drag their feet.
E. Insist that the perpetrators be sent to prison until they die and not receive preferential treatment or be sent to Mount Carmel.

Your actions have shown clearly that you want money. Are you ready to pay for the services you received while you were in St Joseph Home? What have happened to you if you were not taken care of?

You can also ask for a national contribution campaign so that each can contribute as he/she deems fit.

You can also campaign that all Paedophiles and abusers should be (chemically) castrated.

But whatever you do, the more you want money the more it has become apparent that money was you aim from day one and not justice.

Joseph Sammut

Sep 24th 2011, 11:46

Money solves all. Somehow, it dents credibility.

Anthony Pace

Sep 24th 2011, 11:37

Only in Malta there is no compensation by the church. SHAME!!! SHAME!!! SHAME!!!

Michael Seychell

Sep 24th 2011, 11:30

I believe that this time the Victims shot themself in their feet - no wonder that the posters where taken down when their lawyer arrived on the scene!

Michael Seychell
Tal-Pieta

Kurt Waschnig

Sep 24th 2011, 11:29

Protest peacefully outside the Curia and do never give up to inform the public what Catholic priests did with you all.

Pressure must be put on the Curia peacefully and the outcry of the public shall never stop till victims of clerical child abuse get their rights.

Clerical child abuse was covered up by the Church in Malta and the announcement by the Church not to grant financial comepensation is cynical.

The life of children was destroyed by Catholic priests and therefore the Church has the moral obligation to do everything to help the victims.

To see the victims, the poor, the needy that is what Jesus wants.




Best regards



Kurt Waschnig Oldenburg Germany

Mr Lawrence Calleja

Sep 24th 2011, 11:08

So, after all, the truth has finally come out. All these persons wanted is compensation in money. The Curia should only pay money for psychological treatment that these victims require.

Mr M Farrugia

Sep 24th 2011, 11:07

qazzistuna issa. Jiena wiehed milli kont nissimpatiza maghkom sa ftit ilu imma issa qed nibdel il-fehma tieghi u qed nahseb li hemm agendi ohra. Wiehed mill-posters jghid abbuzati mill-qassisin u issa mill-Isqifjiet. Nahseb dan il-poster huwa libbeluz ghax sa issa hadd qatt minnhom li kien hemm xi Isqof li abbuza minnhom. Hbieb nirrispettaw l-awtoritajiet tal-Knisja u niftakru li dak li huwa allegat li sar minn individwi mhux dak li qed isir fil-Knisja. Ftakkru li l-quddiem tridu taghtu kont quddiem Alla bhal ma irid jaghtu dawk li huwa allegat li abbuzaw. Fil-kaz taghkom tridu taghtu kont l-alla tal-hsara li qed taghmel bul-propaganda kontra il-knisja.

P. Vincenti

Sep 24th 2011, 11:05

It is not clear as to how financial compensation will help these people?

It is understandable that they were hurt by the abuse and that those who abused them should be brought to justice. But how financial compensation is supposed to make everything go away is a mystery?

Are they barking up the wrong tree here? Should not those who abused them be the target of their request for compensation?

David Caruana

Sep 24th 2011, 11:00

"So much Euros for the divorce campaign and for the abuse victims nothing?"

Well said!!

The stand that the church is taking on this issue will result in further damage to itself, just like the divorce campaign resulted at the end of the day.

Go ahead Curia! Keep shooting yourself in the leg. We all love it when you do that!

Joseph Calleja

Sep 24th 2011, 10:57

please do not tell me that these are after money