Faith ‘defectors’ considering legal action against Curia
A group of young people who wish to renounce their faith and be disassociated from the Catholic Church have accused the Curia of not cooperating with their wishes and are threatening legal action.
Not In Our Name was formed in June to help baptised Catholics who wanted to disassociate themselves from the Church officially. The group said they contacted the Church on July 6 to ask whether it was possible to set a date when all those interested could meet the Curia Chancellor for the baptismal register to be annotated in a way that showed that the people in the group were no longer members of the Church.
The group said the Chancellor refused to receive the people as a group, insisting he would only see them individually. Each person would also have to undergo an interview. The group said that, as a compromise, it suggested that three people be received in one day but on an individual basis because 23 out of 41 people in the group said they felt more comfortable in the company of others. The group said the Chancellor told them he knew of their cause and did not want to help in the propaganda against the Church. Attempts were made to set up meetings with the Chancellor but, according to the group, he proved to be evasive and, ultimately, refused to accept the proposition.
“Not In Our Name considers the Curia’s behaviour unhelpful, insensitive and obstructive. The organisation also believes that it has exhausted all approaches that would enable it to fulfil its commitment towards people who are interested in defection and, at the same time, need support in formally renouncing their faith.”
The group said it had sought legal advice and would be considering legal means to achieve its goal.
“We believe that it is the right of all our members as responsible adults not to be impeded in any way from terminating their association with the Catholic Church, and will henceforth not recognise the need for our members to undergo the Chancellor’s interview,” the group said.
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angelo cilia
Aug 21st 2011, 17:58
Kudos to the "Not In Our Name" group, if enough people do what you do then this papist church cannot go brag that Malta is 95 % romanist catholic or other such nonsense !
Victor Pulis
Aug 21st 2011, 11:32
Just stop attending church and receiving the sacraments, end of story. It's not as if the parish priest is going to haul you kicking and screaming to mass. If the baptism certificate is a useless piece of paper so will the paper that excomunicates you. Tjhis all smells like a bid for some publicity. Many have already taken the decision to call it quits with the catholic church and no fanfares were sounded. Faith in whatever religion is between the believer and the god/s he believes in.When the parish priest calls to collect donations for a new bell or whatever just don't give.
Raymond Sammut
Aug 21st 2011, 17:15
If what you are saying to these young people were true, then why the Curia is giving them all this trouble? Why wouldn't the Curia just simply strike them off the register, and just say good-bye/good-luck to them?
If this issue "smells", Mr Pulis, then it must smell both ways. Seeing the Curia being so resistant, surely there is not just a "smell" but a "stink" coming from the Curia side. You've got to see it also from the Curia's behavior point of view. Why are they being so mean with these young people?
If they do not want to be on the Curia's register, then the Curia has the obligation to delete all information --no iffs or buts. It has nothing to do with "faith". It has everything to do with the Curia keeping information on people without consent. Personal information is subject to privacy laws in the civilized world --in case you didn't know.
Victor Pulis
Aug 21st 2011, 19:20
The church has no power over anyone since the inquisition went out of business. All one has to do is stop being active in church functions and that's that.
The only information the curia has on the faithful is concerned with church attendance and the receiving of the sacraments. Any other confidential information is illegal and goes against the data protection act. And that could be a valid reason to take the church to court maybe.
So they remain on the curia's register for the archbishop to boast that the majority of Maltese are catholic.So what? let him have his little pleasures while in the knowledge that not all who attend mass and receive the sacraments are true catholics. There are hundreds who have already left the fold and only their names remain on the curia list.
Raymond Sacco
Aug 20th 2011, 21:20
i stopped being a catholic for years now. i didn't need any assistance and i didn't need any interviews! not believing in any religion does not mean we have to antagonise others around us who do! lately there have been heated debates concerning divorce and child abuse but this issue sounds absurd! today, the catholic church is bearing the consequences for it's radical policy in which it provoked and irritated many who are deserting it! lets not make the same mistake by being anti religion fanatics!
Phil Humphries
Aug 20th 2011, 18:07
Surely when someone 'defects' from anything, then they are no longer part of it... End of.
Legal action ? On what grounds ?
Mark Caruana
Aug 20th 2011, 17:52
I am not some fervent catholic, neither I am a regular church goer. I just have to say that I have the luck of being educated and brought up in a church school. I can't say there weren't any imperfections but I am thankful to those that gave me the opportunity to be educated there. I thank the church. This anti church propaganda has reached its limits now and its starting to hurt us. Wrong doings should be addressed equally to everyone but to start a kill joy agaist a whole family just cause some member of it did some wrong doing is rediculous. If they want to leave just be it. Just leave. Why all this fuss? Why do we have to put Christ's organisation is such a bad light and turmoil? This is all bad! The church like every other organisation has its bad doing but the good deeds by our church surpasses them all by trillion times. It seems that it is becoming a trend to be trigger happy and fire at will against our religion and its organisation just cause it is tolerant.
Mr John Azzopoardi
Aug 20th 2011, 15:43
If you want to renounce your faith, go ahead, who is telling you to remain catholics, but please stop being a bunch of mules. We had enough with your anti church propoganda. Enough is enough. Now, take a hike. No one owes you anything. Get a real job.
Mr leo attard
Aug 20th 2011, 15:00
why hasnt anyone from the organization answered these arguments against their line of thought. I mean, they are free to stop practising, but to accuse the church of hindering one's defection from the church just because it wants to meet each individual on an individual basis is arrogance. neither faith nor atheism can be forced upon anyone -- it's an individual's personal convictions. neither the roman emperors nor communism succeeded in destroying christianity; and i have spoken to catholic missionaries who told me that they dont force people to convert, they merely help and present a situation and the target group is totally free to convert IF AND WHENEVER they want to....so live and let live
Mr leo attard
Aug 20th 2011, 14:50
it seems the organization 'Not in our name' is being obstructive --- ypou dont get church-leaving certificates like you do in school. once you stop practising the faith, you're out of it. yoou cant go back in time and undo baptism, etc.... if you accept the sacraments as hocus-pocus, then just call them that and go on with your lives. you cannot change the past! for example, if one of the dissenters was an altar boy and was caught on video or photo during a ceremony, are you going to demand the church destroy any video or ophoto that shows the dissenter in church?..... according to the article, the only reason why some of the dissenters want to have others with them is because they feel uncomfortable-- why? are they uncertain of their actions? are they being pressurized into joining the enlightened?....and what is the Not in Our Name offering? are they just against the catholic church or all forms of organized religion? i agree with Mr Francis Saliba, all they want is publicity! or maybe they would like to sue as well, for harassment for example. NOT IN MY NAME YOU DONT!!!!!
Ramon Casha
Aug 20th 2011, 16:00
This group is being obstructive?? Unbelievable.
The group is not requesting that the church alters any records of past events, but that these individuals are no longer counted as members. It should be a simple matter. What this group is offering is some assistance to navigate around the largely-uncharted waters of leaving the church. The group is explicitly for people who wish to leave the Catholic church.
Mr Edward Mallia
Aug 20th 2011, 14:27
The baptismal register records an act done, as somebody put it, "when they could neither walk nor talk", and when somebody had to make certain promises on their behalf. That act cannot now be undone or the record of it altered. But the "victims" can simply renege on the promises, in private or in public. That puts them squarely beyond the hated pale, and beyond the statistical pale, given that even the local Church does not have recourse to baptismal registers for totting up its "membership", whatever that may mean. What on earth are they seeking an interview with "the Chancellor" for? For that matter, what did "the Chancellor" want to interview them about? And why did he change his mind? In anycase, I would be quite happy to hold the hand of any Not in Our Name member during an interview with "the Chancellor" -- as somebody super partes, of course.
Ramon Casha
Aug 20th 2011, 15:55
"What on earth are they seeking an interview with "the Chancellor" for?"
Initially the group tried to do it by the church's rules, which involves doing such an interview.
Mark Caruana
Aug 20th 2011, 12:21
If you use a crime done by some clergy to do some pompous "MESSA IN SCENA" and pretend to be seen as origianls and righteous in the eyes of the public you are WRONG. You are in the same crowd Jesus of Nazzareth shouted "let him who have no sin cast the first stone"......it seems that you have the guts to do it....Well done then.....Let God judge you. Crimes are the work of Satan and the destruction of any organisation linked to God is his aim....You are being his dark angels.
Mr Joseph Cauchi Senior
Aug 20th 2011, 12:11
So, they want to EXCOMUNICATE themselves!
Good, go ahead!
Who cares?
JC.
Ramon Casha
Aug 20th 2011, 15:54
"Who cares?"
It seems that the chancellor does.
Joseph Galea
Aug 20th 2011, 12:01
It appears that 'Not in Our Name' is just after cheap propaganda. If one wants to opt out of being a Catholic one has the freedom to do so - just stop practicing the faith. Everything else is a technicality.
Ramon Casha
Aug 20th 2011, 15:53
"Everything else is a technicality."
To some it is an important technicality. In any case, why withhold it?
Mr Manuel Camilleri
Aug 20th 2011, 11:25
I totally respect the decision by these brothers and sisters who want to defect from the Church. However, I cannot understand why they all want to remain anonymous. I have greater admiration towards Dr. Patrick Attard who left the Church without hiding behind the name of a group or political party.
Ramon Casha
Aug 20th 2011, 10:56
In every other organisation I know about, all you have to do to leave is not renew your membership, or at most make a phone call or send a letter and request to be struck off the membership list. You do not need to give reasons or otherwise justify your decision to leave. Why all the stumbling blocks?
Some might say "just don't go to church", but that's a bit like being listed as a member of an organisation without attending its activities. The organisation still quotes you as a member, inflating its membership figures. Some people want to ensure that they are removed from any membership lists. Most of us were baptised into this institution before we could walk or talk - before we could make an informed decision about whether we wanted to join.
If you take the conditions under which people are inducted into the church - without consent, without being informed, without being given a choice - and compare these with the conditions under which people are married, it's clear that if marriage took place under such conditions there would be grounds for annulment. So why does the church make it so difficult for a rational adult to decide that he or she no longer wants to be counted as a member?
Francis Saliba M.D.
Aug 20th 2011, 10:22
The "Not in Our Name" is NOT after securing the freedom for its few dozen members to disassociate themselves from the Catholic religion - no one is obstructing that. They want free publicity for their anti-Catholic stance and the media are providing it, unfortunately.
Mr Jo Camm
Aug 20th 2011, 11:28
... and these few people want to change the laws of a 'billion' member' Catholic Church.
Mr Alex Ciantar
Aug 20th 2011, 12:14
@ Francis Saliba M.D.
The media covers anything of news value irrelevant of who and where its coming from!!
Francis Saliba M.D.
Aug 21st 2011, 20:12
@ Mr Alex Ciantar.
Cogitating whether to go to court or not cannot ever be considered "anything of news value".
Mr Alex Ciantar
Aug 21st 2011, 21:25
@Francis Saliba
There have been more petty stories concerning the church carried out as new items recently..........never heard you complain about those??
But just for the record i think this is a farce, as many have already commented if you do not agree or want to be part of something, institution/party/club etc. just don't attend/support it!!
Francis Saliba M.D.
Aug 22nd 2011, 04:21
@Alex Ciantar.
So glad that,at last, the penny dropped!
Mr Alex Ciantar
Aug 22nd 2011, 13:09
@ Francis Saliba
Don't flatter yourself Francis Saliba my reasoning is based on pure logic and common sense I have no biased towards anything or anyone!
Gerry Cowie
Aug 20th 2011, 09:52
If you don't want to be Catholics, why do you need help not to be? Besides "once a Catholic, always a Catholic" means just that!
Mr Wally Vella-Zarb
Aug 20th 2011, 11:45
"once a Catholic, always a Catholic"
That is precisely how you and your church persist in deluding yourselves about the real following that your church has on these Islands! Enjoy your fantasy. ;-)