Emigrants on holiday want to be considered as Maltese on buses
The Arriva circular service in Valletta. Photo: Matthew Mirabelli
Maltese emigrants are upset when charged tourist fares on the aquamarine Arriva buses.
The revamped bus service brought about a change in fares with tourists paying more than Maltese identity cardholders. But Maltese migrants who have dual passports feel the distinction should not apply to them.
“I’m not a foreigner. I’m Maltese and I’m very proud to be Maltese. I visit my country every year or two,” an upset Lawrence Dimech said, noting he even has property and money invested here.
Mr Dimech is a former Maltese journalist who migrated to Australia when he was about 20 years old.
“It’s not about having to pay an extra dollar but it’s a matter of pride,” he said.
Mr Dimech said he was treated as a tourist and was asked for his ID card. Instead, he showed the bus driver his passport as proof of being a Maltese citizen.
Mr Dimech, who was accompanied by three others, said it was much cheaper for them to use their car and pay a parking fee.
The price of a day ticket for Maltese residents is €1.50 while that of a seven-day ticket is €6.50. A day ticket costs tourists and those not in possession of a Maltese ID card €2.60 and the seven-day pass costs €12.
A spokesman for Arriva said a passport did not contain an address, so it could not be considered relevant.
A person was considered to be a Maltese resident if he held a valid identification card, including photograph, issued by the Government of Malta, attesting his identity and his residential address in Malta, issued for that purpose, in accordance with any law applicable at the time in Malta.
The European Commission last year launched an inquiry to determine whether the fare structure was compatible with EU law, which prohibits discrimination based on nationality. It has yet to reach a decision.
The Sunday Times reported last weekend that passengers who appeared to be Maltese were being charged normal fares without being asked to produce their ID card while Maltese resident passengers who appeared to be foreign were seen being asked to present proof of residence.
Arriva rejected claims its bus drivers were discriminating against some Maltese residents going by appearance.
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172 Comments
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Joseph W. Galea
Jul 29th 2011, 08:39
Why this discriminatory act? Why is the tourist subsidizing the local residents?
One fare should be set up for everyone riding the buses.
This two tier system is highway robbery and is taking advantage of the tourist, something tha Malta so direly needs.
In other countries that I have been to, and I have been to many, the price is the same for anything you buy, be it food, transportation or service, it is the same for everyone. But in Malta, we always have to see how we are going to cheat the tourist.
And this is also being done with the blessing of the government, for shame I say.
If they want to compare fares with other European countries, they should also compare the cost of living in those countries and assuming that Malta's cost of living is less than theirs, then the bus fare should be adjusted accordingly.
BUT, there should only be one fare for everyone. And the government should be the leader in initiating this.
As for the ones who said that if the tourist cannot afford to pay the extra fare, then they should not go to Malta, be careful what you wish for.
There are a lot of other places tourists can go to that are much nicer than Malta, the sun is not a proprietary object to Malta, it is everywhere. As for beaches, there are some that go for miles and miles, and clean, too.
The important thing is not that they cannot afford to pay twice as much as the locals, but that they are being discriminated against and are being cheated, simply because they are tourists, and all with the government's blessing.
They should lodge a complain with the EU tribunal.
Mr John Azzopoardi
Jul 29th 2011, 01:08
Christine Pace, you really don't know what you are talking about. Fairs should be the same for everyone. As for your comments, yes there are many other places one can visit and will get more for their money. You need to get out more and travel more.
Ms F Goodwin
Jul 28th 2011, 18:29
Just ask for your ticket in Malti. They only check ID cards of foreign looking people. ;D
But seriously, what a shame that this person expects legal rights and a reduced fare based on his own subjective emotional feelings. The reduced fare isn't for Maltese citizens or people who "feel" Maltese, it is for people who hold a Maltese ID card, whatever their nationality, skin colour or patriotic feelings. The ID card is the only criteria. Whether it's right or wrong, I think he needs a lot more than "I feel Maltese and it hurts my feelings to realise I've become a stranger in my own country" to base his complaint about this policy on.
Mr John Azzopoardi
Jul 28th 2011, 11:47
As a maltese I sometimes think a tourist or a maltese emigrant or even maltese who visit other foreign nations get more for their money than here in Malta. You go to the caribbean or other coastal parts of the US and the shear beauty of these places is enormous. In Florida for example, you get a nice holiday for one week for just $1000 per peson. And this is true. So Malta, don't get too spoiled. As for some people who probably never left Malta, you are not the center of the world as you may think. SOrry to day that as a Maltese, but you need to be realistic in Malta.
Christina Pace
Jul 28th 2011, 13:12
Yes lets be realistic.
Lets not go so far away. Florida is on a different continent and currency. Its a different economy and enyone who'se been to the states or baught stuff from there knows everything is cheaper. So I'm afraid you're comparing apples and oranges.
Now I f you wanna go from Europe to Europe fairs towards Malta are quite competitive even during peak season, testimony to this are the numerous Bristish tourist that choose Malta as their destination, even more than once a year. Try flying to the US at those prices.
So fly with me for 2 hours and we are in Rome. You'd pay 4 euros for a day ticket. Still more expensive than Malta.
Or why don't we go to Paris. 1.70 euros is the price for 1 ticket (cheaper than 2.60 u think? wrong) which usually only takes you on one ride. up to and including nine tickets are purchased at that price. If you buy 10 tickets you pay 12 euros. why that is equivalent to a seven day pass for non Maltese residents. Still much more expensisve than Malta.
So these are big cities and maybe we're not even close to that. Let's go to Cyprus. Similar to Malta. Therte's no trains, no metro. Short of renting or owning a car one would have to use the public transport. Their systems is pretty much like what we had/have (I include have since Arriva have had to contract outsources coaches and heven't been stable yet) Irregular is timing and appearance.(I include the prestent since Arriva have had to contract outsourced coaches and heven't been stable yet). One-way tickets range from 1.20 to a whopping 18 euros. Day tickets you ask? no such thing as I recall.
Are you sure you know what you're talking about?
Christina Pace
Jul 28th 2011, 11:18
I agrre with this policy a 100%.
Those of you Maltese who migrated elsewhere but still have property here and citizenship, and spend so much time here in Malta that you feel the need to complain about this, you have no excuse for not having a Maltese ID card with a Maltese address. But may I remind you that you most likely left to seek a better situation while we real Maltese reisdents stay and fight for improvement.
And excuse me. But we Maltese residents, pay taxes, pay national insurance contributions, and we have to put up with this sorry transport system all year round. My taxes partly go towards improving transport and roads in Malta. How many taxes have you paid?
Ms Maria Vella
Jul 28th 2011, 12:16
Well said
If they are so proud to be Maltese why didn't they stay here in the first place
Mrs Pauline Abela
Jul 28th 2011, 13:54
@ Maria Vella. 'why didn't they stay here in the first place'
Speaking for myself...because I'm not a martyr and because this is the only life I am guaranteed and there may not be another one so I have to make the most of it.
While I love Malta, I don't see the logic in passing up a great opportunity and that is what Sydney is.
Mind you, had I not had the Maltese upbringing that I did, I quite possibly would not have been able to get out of the experience all that I have.
@ Christina Pace, I've paid no taxes (except for VAT and the like) but I can assure you I do not skimp when I'm over there. My husband always hires a car. I refuse to drive in Malta (for me, rockclimbing the Blue Mountains is less hair-raising than driving in Malta) so I either sit in the passenger seat or take the bus (which I enjoy). I agree with a two-tier system but the way it is currently being presented is simply going to alienate the people which the Maltese economy relies on.
Mr John Azzopoardi
Jul 29th 2011, 05:21
Ms. Maria Vella, In the 40's, 50's and 60's and early 70's Malta was so poor and without any jobs, people had no choice but to emigrant. When things started to get better and jobs started to get created , people stopped emigrating. At least people who emigrated were welcomed in US, UK, Canada and Australia and we shared their western culture and were able to integrate. Of course, thousands returned between the 70's and today, but as to your comments, it shows how immature you are about history and that you need to read up on histroy first before you talk.
Tony Berkeley
Jul 28th 2011, 10:48
I see the more refined comments are now swinging towards common sense. The question which stands head and shoulders over all the other is .... WHY ONLY IN MALTA ? If the Maltese cannot see that there is a problem with they way they act, they can never ever move to correct the problem !! Wake up national development can often be seen on how a nation deals with others, and above all how it deals with its CITIZENS irrespective of where they live.
Mr Phil Zammit
Jul 29th 2011, 05:16
Right on Tony!!
Kieron O'connor
Jul 28th 2011, 09:59
Very interesting article.
The same applies to every foreigner who visits Malta, to be discriminated against because you are not local.
To those who are trying to compare this discimination based on residency to pensioner discounts or frequent user concensions in other countries, please go and educate yourself as there is no similarity what so ever.
Mrs Pauline Abela
Jul 28th 2011, 10:33
Come to Sydney. You will see the similarilty. There ARE concessions for low-income earners. Do you realise that the average salary in Malta is only around E14,000pa? Can YOU live on THAT?
Why should someone on that salary pay the same as a visitor on E60,000 per annum?
Frankly, if a visitor cannot afford an additional E10-E20 per week to their holiday, I can't see how they are going to be helping the Maltese economy. And if they aren't helping the Maltese economy, why should the Maltese want them there in the first place? The island is crowded enough as it is.
Kieron O'connor
Jul 28th 2011, 22:22
Dont blaim the tourists for the over pricing in Malta, dont try and make tourists pay for the over pricing.
Take the over pricing and the low sallaries up with the government, hold your ellected government to account for a change instead of worshiping them like gods because they have the right colour shirt on.
The issue is not pay what can be afforded, the issue is discrimination.
Tony Zarb
Jul 28th 2011, 04:11
Well, if this is the way my fellow Maltese think of us that return to our country that we love, I will spend my holidays where I am wanted.
This September instead of coming to Malta, I have cancelled and will be going to Hamilton Island in the Great Barrie Reef.
I know I will be wanted there.
Christina Pace
Jul 28th 2011, 11:09
yeah! enjoy the predator infested waters.
Mrs Pauline Abela
Jul 28th 2011, 13:28
@ Christina Pace, You have obviously never been to the Great Barrier Reef. Yes, there are predators but no, it's not infested with them. It is also one of the most beautiful places on earth and I'm pleased to say that none of my family became fish bait when we visited.
This should not be an 'us' and 'them' debate but the submission and evaluation of ideas aimed at reducing the financial burden on the general population as much as possible without alienating the visitors on which Malta's economy largely depends.
A two-tier fare system CAN be done without it being obviously discriminatory. Taken at face value, the current system appears discriminatory. That is why something like a 'concession card' (for ID holders earning less than a certain amount) would solve the problem while still keeping the two-tier system.
There is not even a need for a second card. Those who qualify can simply have the letter 'C' printed on their card.
The published fares will not need to refer to the Maltese ID card at all.
Mr John Azzopoardi
Jul 28th 2011, 01:52
To U. D'Amico and Jesse Galea. I am a maltese citizen like you are and proud of my heritage. Live in both Malta and abroad. Pay my taxes, not sure about you two and have contributed almost half a million euros to the maltese economy by buy property, building my own house. I wonder if you guys have contributed one maltese cent or euro to the maltese economy. I think I said enough.
Mrs Pauline Abela
Jul 28th 2011, 00:59
1. It only adds a few Euro more a week. If Mr Dimech can afford to pay the air fare, surely he can afford to pay the additional bus fare.
2. In Australia, we do have discounted fares for people who fall in various categories such as 'low income, pensioners, etc. The only problem I see with the fare system in Malta is in its marketing. Perhaps consideration should be given to introducing a 'concession card'. The holder would only qualify if they earn less than a certain amount and reside in Malta. To obtain discounts, they have to produce their card. Then, no one can claim discrimination.
3. The additional fare (hopefully) goes back to the Maltese Economy (rather than the shareholders of ARRIVA). That can only help the standard of living for the general public. How can that be wrong? How can that hurt anyone's pride? Personally, the better the situation in Malta is, the prouder I feel. If helping out costs me a few additional Euros when I'm there (and I also visit regularly), then so be it.
Andreea Prodan
Jul 27th 2011, 23:24
Ok so im not maltese but i've been living here for 12 years and I do have a Maltese ID card however i am always asked for my ID card which is not a big deal for me. The problem is every time I go abroad the prices are always the same for everybody so I find it disgusting Arriva are charging tourist double. For me it seems like they are trying to rip people off money. All tourist complain about it and it is not a good "advert" for malta when people return to their countries. It looks like discrimination to me and honestly I think the new busses are quite good (although seen some with things starting to break in them ) but this "price " rule is ridiculous and someone should do something about it soon because it is not FAIR at all!
Mrs Joana Pura
Jul 27th 2011, 23:11
Maltese are travelling all over the world. Has one of them been charged different for being a foreigner? In Turkey, Oman, Peru, Russia, Albania? Then why in Malta? Where the life standard is so much better that in all the nominee countries.
And with what RIGHT a bus driver is asking for identification documents? What is the Consumer Division doing? Why these things are not exposed on each bus just as any other price should be?
I can't believe that Arriva, operator in so many countries, went so low to accept this.
This time the things went too far.
Right now one should expect an exodus of tourist in Malta. Europe it's a too small that pretty soon the newspapers will make a subject out of it.
Tony Berkeley
Jul 27th 2011, 22:54
Mark and others still don't see it, do they? It can only happen in Malta. It's the mentality of the Maltese, which is near impossible to change, even when the have moved on to be EU members the petty attitude in the everyday raision d'être is still entrenched in the blood.
Mr Angelo Vassallo
Jul 27th 2011, 17:51
@ Mr Tony Camilleri & Mr. Raymond Sammut
Sinjuri, fil-kumment tieghi jien ma thaltx fl-argument ta' jekk dawn in-nies ghandhomx ihallsu bhal Maltin jew le. Jien ridt niccara d-differenza li hemm bejn IMMIGRANT u EMIGRANT, id-differenza li s-sur Busuttil ma jafx li tezisti, u b'hekk seta` rega qanqal xi antipatija lejn dawk in-nies li jigu Malta mil-Afrika ta' Fuq.
Mr mark johnson
Jul 27th 2011, 16:18
All Arriva need to do is bring out a 'malta bus ID card' that can only be given to people who hold a malta ID card and then charge the cheaper fare for holders of the 'malta bus ID card' .
Sorted.
Mr Peter Murray
Jul 27th 2011, 17:30
But what about the fares on the Gozo buses-not sorted!
Mr Clyde Ellul
Jul 27th 2011, 18:29
To a certain extent they already have that, which they call the saver card. It works very much like the Oyster card in London; you apply for the card, top it up, then just scan it on the bus.
The only problem with it, is that you can currently only purchase 30 days and 90 days of travel credit in advance, which for some people would be in adequate. They should allow you to top up 7-day and 1-day top-ups too. One should also be able to top it up online before setting off on your journey. They would also have to forfeit the €5 admin fee on applying for it, or perhaps charge it but allow the first 7-day top up for free to make up for it. However, I think these things will come eventually, once the company has settled its current more serious problems.
B. Pollacco
Jul 27th 2011, 19:44
even though it is a great idea..i don't think they will divide them within a short time frame, i ordered the saver card a day before the service started and still to this day i haven't received anything..
VINCENT WILLIAMS
Jul 27th 2011, 16:15
Every time I visit England I always pay the same fare as the British do when using the public transport. As far as I know Malta and Great Britain are both in the U.E. So why the difference in the fares between local commuters and other commuters? Is it because tourists and other commuters including Maltese emigrants are subsidizing the local commuters?
Mr Tony Gatt
Jul 27th 2011, 17:52
It's because there is a different midset in the U.K. They don't care where you come from. Also the Brits will not have I.D. cards as it reminds them of a Police State.
Mr Tony Camilleri
Jul 27th 2011, 23:57
NO. Maltese citizens are subsidizing NON-Arriva-L with millions from their taxes.
Mrs Pauline Abela
Jul 28th 2011, 07:55
If you come to Sydney, I guarantee that there will be locals paying less than you either because they're on some form of pension or because they are on a low-income for whatever reason. Those people are entitled to a concession card which as the name implies, gives concessions to the holder, one of which is discounted bus and train travel.
I bet most of the people in England are earning a much higher wage than most Maltese people so why is it unfair that those on lower incomes pay less?
B. Pollacco
Jul 27th 2011, 15:51
since arriva began i was only asked ONCE for my ID card, by a British driver so no harm there...
Mr Clyde Ellul
Jul 27th 2011, 15:47
I can't understand why people are making such fuss about this. The tariff differentiation has nothing to do with being Maltese, but with residing here, working here and paying taxes to the Maltese government.
The government of Malta has agreed to pay Arriva subsidies in exchange for Arriva to discount their standard fare for residents who are registered as Maltese nationals. The subsidies are being paid out of the Maltese people's taxes, not by the EU or by tourists coming here. Emigrants, while being Maltese, do not reside here anymore and do not pay tases in Malta, so why should the government subsidize their tickets too?
Therefore I do not see any unfair discrimination here.
Those foreign nationals who compare Malta to other EU countries should ask themselves whether their government is paying similar subsidies to the local public transport carriers from their people's pockets, as the Maltese government is doing.
On the other hand, those Maltese nationals who think this is unfair and use the bus regularly, please tell us whether you'd be happier paying the standard fare in full, like all non-nationals, for fairness' sake. In that case, seeing that you feel so strongly about it, I suggest that the next time you see a tourist being "discriminated", you exchange your ticket with his and pay him the difference. Would make a bigger difference than whining about it in here.
Mr M Borg
Jul 27th 2011, 17:14
I do understand what you mean. But iI am against us carrying our ID cards with us. Can you imagine handing your ID card with your finger print to any driver ?
I am against having our finger prints on ID card and am against the idea of having to prove my identity just to board the bus. Why should everyine know the Mr A or Mrs B residing at Valletta is at the moment on BUS Z at Mellieha ??
Are we without knowing turning Malta into a police state ??
Mr brian taylor
Jul 27th 2011, 17:44
Resident or non resident; whats the difference? There seems to be an underlying dislike of "foreigners" here, perhaps a national inferiority complex which is sated by diddling visitors. This of course is not unique to Malta, taxi drivers the world over are usually crooks too.
Never the less, if one feels visitors are fair game to be ripped off, then surely every service and product available should be dual priced.
There seems to be a substantial minority who are quite viciously unpleasant towards their fellow europeans, who whilst may not pay income taxes directly here, do contribute in a number of ways to the local economy, e.g EU grants, payment of VAT etc
So less unpleasantness and more fairness is not really a lot to ask ,is it?
Mr Clyde Ellul
Jul 27th 2011, 18:22
Mr Borg,
What are you talking about? :) You don't need to hand over your ID card to anyone and no one will know where you are. They do not scan your ID card or keep a copy of it. All you do is just show it to the driver.
S. Briffa
Jul 27th 2011, 20:41
Mr.Clyde you actually gave a good explaination of why the tariffs are as tho be honest I didn't know that. Though I may not be in agreement that non residents pay more that is how it is and the agreement is like that!!
What I cannot agree with is that on this article Mr.Dimech resides overseas and is kind of demanding, and has nothing to do with being proud to be Maltese, just wanted to be heard I guess...no matter he is just a visitor here!! I do not know where he parks if he says that it will be cheaper going by car and pay for parking either!! Unbelievable what people come up with!!
All I say is at least now the visitors know what they are going to be charged not as before!!!
Mr Tony Camilleri
Jul 27th 2011, 23:59
Mr brian taylor eu foreigners contribute nothing through the eu to us because we are net contributors as we have always been, including more than Lm1,000,000 rebate to the UK.
Mr David Willow
Jul 28th 2011, 10:30
at T Camilleri - total rubbish malta gets many refunds - one just this week
Mr Alex Buds
Jul 27th 2011, 15:05
This is discrimnatory. All Maltese citizens should be treated equal.
charles tabone
Jul 27th 2011, 13:39
Why should they? Many, if not all, have dual citizenships. They are proud of being Mlatese while they come for a short sojourn in Malta, but the prouder they are being JOEYS. After all, they do not pay taxes in Malta like all other residents do. So we do not owe them anything
Mr andreas bone
Jul 28th 2011, 02:14
couldnt have said it better!
Roger Steele
Jul 28th 2011, 03:00
A friend of mine worked most of his life in Malta he has been living in Australia for 3 years. Now he will return to Malta and have to pay the price of a foreign tourist.
If you don't owe us anything, neither do we owe you so we will holiday somewhere else. It is you and the Maltese nation who will suffer because tourism is a very important sector for the Maltese economy. It doesn't bother me the world is such a big place and many other places to see and visit or I can even holiday at home. So you see Mr. Tabone you don't owe Maltese migrants and foreign tourists,but you NEED them to help the Maltese economy along
Also please advise your politicians who visit Maltese migrants not to call the Maltese migrants their 'brothers' when they allow Maltese who live in Australia, America, Canada etc. to be treated as foreigners in the land of their birth.
Mr Phil Zammit
Jul 28th 2011, 05:54
Mr. Tabone,
Were it not for family and childhood memories,YOU CAN KEEP YOUR ROCK. Those of us living overseas owe allegiance to Din L'art Helwa because we were born there and, many of us, still have an extended family. There is a hundredfold "hlewwa" where we live - be it Australia, Canada, the USA or wherever. There is NOTHING you have that we don't have many times over (okay, maybe not your efficient Arriva buses).
So please, spare us your small mindedness and be grateful for our allegiance and money we send (or spend) to keep you employed.
Mrs Pauline Abela
Jul 28th 2011, 10:22
@ Charles Tabone and Andreas Bone. There is no need for you to be deragatory. I am proud and happy to be Australian and appreciate the opportunities that Australia has given me and which would not have been available to me had I stayed in Malta. I am also grateful for the Australian people who opened their doors to me and the many who are my friends.
JOEYS are marsupials, something which I am not. I suggest you try engaging your brain before your fingertips.
I am also proud of my heritage, the family I have in Malta and the culture which shaped me and I wish all Maltese the very best.
I have no problem with a two tiered system - in fact I believe it should be supported for the reasons I have already given above, however, one does not have to be a genius to realise that it is open to accusations of discrimation. All the system needs to be seen as fair is a change in its delivery. See my comment above, if you're interested.
Mr David Willow
Jul 28th 2011, 10:36
at Mr Tabone - when will you lot realise that the foreigner is absolutely essential for the survival of malta's economy and as a country...get real - you are alienating every visitor to these shores whether maltese born or not....their cash spent here is essential - just ask the rip off traders here how well they're doing now that tourism has dropped...or maybe they too will have to start charging people the correct rate - maybe they should ask for id cards so that they know what to charge.......this country and its small mindedness and rip off nature is a joke. the rip off captial of the med - avoid it like the plague until they come into the 20th century
R. Caruana
Jul 27th 2011, 13:05
The faux superiority complex expressed by some clearly misunderstanding commentators here really goes to show the very sorry state of the Maltese society, I might not be a hardcore patriot but being as much a "pureblood" Maltese myself (if there is such a thing) this is very embarrassing to me. As mentioned this issue has to do with residency not nationality or so I clearly hope it is not to feel further embarrassed, still being an EU citizen as well I feel something is very wrong here.
Manny Parnis
Jul 27th 2011, 12:46
I wonder whether John Hutchinson, the"Maltese" international would be regarded as Maltese or an emigrant who "should be ashamed of himself", for the purposes of travelling on Malta's buses. But then the surname is a deadset giveaway. Hutchinson sounds English/Australian, D'Amico sounds Italian and Parnis sounds Greek. Oh for the diminishing Maltese purebloods.
Mr Tony Gatt
Jul 27th 2011, 17:56
Not many of us left, Mr. Parnis!
Mr D Psaila
Jul 27th 2011, 12:26
The discount is based on residency not nationality, taxes, investments or anything else. Only residency. As the lower fare is a discounted fare and the higher fare is the normal fare, presumably if this scheme is abolished everyone will have to pay the higher fare, i.e. 2.60 euros. So if this is happens are we all going to be happy paying 1.10 euros extra. I really can't see Arriva making the lower fare standard for everyone.
Alfred Grech
Jul 27th 2011, 12:22
Here we have a gentleman who works very hard with the Maltese Community in Australia and as a reward for his work, he's treated like a foreigner in his own country. Maltese who live abroad should be given a special ID card and they should pay the same like residents do.
Richard Pace
Jul 27th 2011, 13:09
If you don't change your passport then you are entitled to a Malteses ID card.
Even if you get dual citizenship you are still entitled to an ID card as long as you present your Maltese passport and other documents. That's how a lot of friends who went to the UK or Europe to work did theirs using their parents addresses and even getting registered for the vote!
Alfred Grech
Jul 27th 2011, 18:33
Richard, if not mistaken, to obtain a Maltese ID one has to be living permanently in Malta and has been here for six months. Whatever the case may be, a for a Maltese emigrant visiting Malta it's an insult if he is treated like a tourist.
Kieron O'connor
Jul 28th 2011, 10:03
Very interesting comment Alfred.
"he's treated like a foreigner in his own country".
Your comment implys it is ok to treat foreigners in the way they are treated in Malta, the double pricing of goods in stores, the rip off taxis, the increased bus fares, the increased ferry fares, any opportunity to make foreigners pay more than locals.
It is a black mark against Maltese culture that this is an accepted practice in Malta.
Alfred Grech
Jul 29th 2011, 10:32
Kieron, I have commented some time ago disagreeing with the two tier bus prices. I think all should pay the same fee, Maltese and tourists but in this case, I was commenting on Lawrence Dimech's case mostly because Lawrence gives a lot of his time to help the Maltese community in Australia and he ends up being treated same like a foreigner.
Maltese and tourists should all pay the same prices on buses, in stores, museums and all.
Mr Jimmie Rowe
Jul 27th 2011, 11:56
Welcome chaps to the two-tier country, one price for the locals and t'other for the outsiders, so much for Malta, the land of honey WITH HIDDEN EXTRAS >money grabbing form us visiters.
Mr David Willow
Jul 27th 2011, 12:18
i have experienced three tiers here - one for the nationals, one for the expats and one for the tourist.....a strange country who relies on tourism for its main revenue stream. so much for being the friendly mediterranean island.....friendly as long as you have their much wanted and needed cash.....
Mr mark johnson
Jul 27th 2011, 12:18
Yeah but the beer's cheap and the women are the sexiest in the world.
Mr Tony Camilleri
Jul 28th 2011, 00:01
Mr Jimmie Rowe do you expect us to subsidize your bus fare?
Gilbert Busuttil
Jul 27th 2011, 11:37
Isn't this scheme the same as that applied by Gozo Channel. If I am not mistaken, Gozo residents pay less. Arriva are a company just like Gozo channel and choose to treat residents differently...the same way Gozo Channel do to Gozo residents, irrelevant of nationality. The only difference here is that I can opt not to use Arriva and use my car while for Gozo i have no option. So why is this an issue now? I am not saying I am for or against the scheme as I couldn't be bothered, but why all this fuss when others have been doing it for years?
Ben Agius
Jul 27th 2011, 12:02
I think the difference is that if you live in Gozo you get a discount. Not the other way round ie if you don't live in gozo you have to pay more. It was quite simple really had someone thought about it. All they had to do - and would've made the whole system simpler - is to issue discounted fares for use by those that can buy them because as locals they use them longer. Once you said tourists have to pay more - the problem was created.
Tony Berkeley
Jul 27th 2011, 11:16
I hold dual passport, I have property in Malta, I pay taxes, I was born in Malta, yet when asking for reduced fares on buses or the Gozo Ferry, I was told I did not qualify because I did not have a carta ta' identita or a carta tal-anziani. My daughter visits Gozo regularly and has applied and got an Id-card, yet when I applied and had all the certificates necessary, they asked for my parents marriage certificate, even thought I presented their birth certificate. So if my parents were not married, or if I was born out of wedlock (which I wasn't) then i was not entitled !! What a cheek. I complained to the EU ombudsman and to the Maltese MEPs on the grounds of discrimination both of Maltese citizenship and as an EU citizen, and was told these are local residency matters. I think the Maltese authorities need to grow up. If they want to play with the big boys they need to cut out this childish rulings and respect and treat Maltese citizens with respect and extend these benefits accordingly. After when Maltese people go to Europe they expect as much.
Richard Pace
Jul 27th 2011, 13:15
As far as I know you have to show your passport and your father's and grandfather's birth certificate.
You are then issued with an ID card and as you are born abroad you would have an A instead of an M or G or L (for children born abroad).
You then show your ID card and present it with the correct amount on boarding the bus.
Mr Tony Camilleri
Jul 28th 2011, 00:04
Tony Berkeley you said that you pay taxes. Do you pay them ere or in the UK?
We are subsidizing the fare from our taxes so how do you expect us to subsidize your fare if you do not paay taxes here?
As others have said it is not a matter of citizenship but living here and paying taxes here.
Charlie Grech
Jul 27th 2011, 11:11
Why is it that Arriva in Malta charges 1.30 euros for a 2 hour pass while the same service in Gozo charges 1 euro for a 2 hour pass (day ticket does not exsist on thier site)?
30 day ticket in Malta is 26 euros
30 day ticket in Gozo is 10 euros
Whats the difference between Malta and Gozo?
Mr mark johnson
Jul 27th 2011, 11:58
Walk around with a sheep and you'd soon find out.
Emanuel Bajada
Jul 27th 2011, 14:42
Simple maths. Gozo is Gozo and Malta is Malta and Rome is Rome - do expect to be in Rome and pay the fare as in Gozo???? So what's your problem? Given that bus is cheaper in Gozo, I recomend you transfer your abode in Gozo and then you will learn where is the difference.
Mr P Bonnici
Jul 27th 2011, 14:42
I assume, looking at the Gozo timetable, it takes longer to travel in Gozo since buses are much less frequent. Some routes in Gozo are every half hour, unlike in Malta every 15 mins. By the way I am not Gozitan.
U. D'Amico
Jul 27th 2011, 11:08
this is typical of emigrants.. they think they have the "right" for everything just because they "visit" us yearly.
they dont pay any taxes, no contribuion at all, but then just because they hold a maltese passport, they want the perks, including free mater dei...
shame on you...
Ben Agius
Jul 27th 2011, 11:54
hey D'Amico - I thought you only live on a rock ! I didn't think you've become one! Sorry but your comments are atrocious by the simple fact that even the example you just gave is an agreement the Malta Government made with other countries so Maltese visiting those countries also have similar rights. If you disagree well and good - but that's the facts!
A Camilleri
Jul 27th 2011, 12:16
mr d'damico, you dont mention the money they spend that goes into the economy, you seem to have blinckers on your eyes, even me help the economy as my pension comes from abroad while the money you earn propably goes abroad on holidays .
Mr Tony Gatt
Jul 27th 2011, 18:01
Mr. D'Amico-
For every 2 euro the U.K. pays to Brussels it gets 1 back.
For every 1 euro Malta pays to Brussels it gets 2 back.
As a U.K. taxpayer can I have my money back please!
Dream on!
steve maynard
Jul 27th 2011, 10:59
On the face of it the scheme sounds illegal under European law , you could pobably get away with this against none EU citizens like our Aussie friend who started this off but I suspect if someone pushes this in the EU court hard enough they would win. This however would be another stupid waste of time and money (as is much EU burocracy), the clear and best option would be for the Maltese Government to withdraw the differentiation except for long term tickets bought away from an actual bus, then locals who use the buses regularly would be happy, tourists not penalised and trouble and delays at the bus stops avoided.
Mr Michael Buhagiar
Jul 27th 2011, 11:22
please try doing it in the European court. Not even the Eu Commission has been as arrogant as maynard to pronounce itself against this scheme and as happens in other countries. I defy this man to try taking Arriva to the EU Court.
Mr Tony Camilleri
Jul 28th 2011, 00:08
Who are you to say that Malta residents taxpayers should not be subsidized from their own taxes to have a reduced fare?
That is exactly what is happening.
Why should they subsidize those who come here for a holiday when they do not pay taxes in Malta?
Don't we have a right to subsidize ourselves from our taxes?
Mr David Willow
Jul 28th 2011, 10:41
taxes are paid here by everyone residents and visitors alike - vat, insurance tax on hired cars, fuel taxes - air port taxes on visitors landing here, taxes on food served in restaurants bars and cafes - get real T Camilerri....this is a international disgrace. Next thing will be that you will all complain that business's are dying because there are no tourists coming here...
Eric Frendo
Jul 27th 2011, 10:23
@ Mr Lawrence Dimech,
Tell us please how I can use my car and pay parking fees for Eur12??
Michael Flaherty
Jul 27th 2011, 10:49
Keep in mind that he was travelling with three others - which means that together they'd pay 10.40. A day. Or 48 a week. I'm not sure of how much it costs to rent a car, but it's probably something similar, and for a little bit more, it's more than worth it.
Mr Tony Gatt
Jul 27th 2011, 11:05
@ Michael Flaherty
I rent a car for most of my time in Malta. Because it is for several weeks I usually pay between 90-100 euro per week, depending on the time of year.
Charles P Cilia
Jul 27th 2011, 10:23
My wife and I are pensioners and travel abroad quite often. Once we were in Barcelona, Spain and went to visit a well known arts museum, prepared to pay the full entrance fee. As soon as the lady in the ticket booth realized that we are senior citizens she let us in for free, even though the fee for both of us was close to 30 euros. We had the same favourable experience in England. The Maltese mentality in this respect is very short sighted, regardless of the reasons given by Minister Gatt to the contrary. Lately I tend to think that Malta should not be managed by local politicians but by foreign independent entrepreneurs who are paid a back dated salary depending on their performance Politicians should only be policy makers not operators.
I am very interested to read reactions; for or against from other bloggers.
Mr Tony Gatt
Jul 27th 2011, 10:59
Mr. Cilia-
You had better put on your flak jacket. Judging by the invective hurled at Arriva being run by 'foreigners' MIA being run by 'foreigners' and anything else being run by those pesky 'foreigners' (never mind the Maltese input) you are going to need it. Oh, don't forget your tin hat!
Mr Tony Camilleri
Jul 28th 2011, 00:12
Simple Mr Cilia. You are senior citizens and senior citizens have free entry. Managed more than we are by foreigners? What a colonialist subservient mentality.
Richard Hubbard
Jul 27th 2011, 10:21
I must then assume that every passenger on every bus is being asked to produce identity as that would be the only fair way, a bit like at UK airports every passenger is treated as a potential terriorist even if they are obviously a Brit.
Anything other than that would be wrong and discriminatory.
Mr David Willow
Jul 27th 2011, 10:52
i agree 100% but unfortunately as has been highlighted in local press this is not the case - there is active discrimination being applied by drivers based solely on how you look to them - look maltese and you get the discounted fare look "foreign" and he issues a full price ticket without even asking....and worse still even after you have produced the id card he has printed the ticket and expects full payment.
Mr Tony Gatt
Jul 27th 2011, 11:02
Mr. David Willow,
I don't have an I.D. for Malta but I look Maltese, because, surprise, surprise, I am one.
I'll have to try that one next time I am in Malta.
Mr David Willow
Jul 27th 2011, 11:11
i too look maltese - especially with shades on - however i am not - but am proud to own and show my Malta issued id card.
Mr David Willow
Jul 27th 2011, 11:27
BTW Tony Gatt - my comment wasn't necessarily aimed at maltese drivers - far from it there are so many different nationalities now driving the comment applies across the board. i would suggest you do give it a try - hopefully this will be resolved long before you need or wish to try it.
A Frendo
Jul 27th 2011, 10:15
Did the geniuses at Austin Gatt's office (spelled Emanuel Delia) came up with this system?
John Scerri
Jul 27th 2011, 10:14
The drivers' job is that of transporting passengers from A to B in the safest and fastest way possible.
The passengers' responsibility is to buy a prepaid ticket from ticket machines in order not to disturb the driver on his or her job.
Such resistance from the public in buying prepaid tickets is unbelievable. Then they grumble on how long the trip takes .
As for the discrimination between tourist fares and resident fares , I find this is totally rediculous to say the least.
Mr David Willow
Jul 27th 2011, 10:30
to be fair the prepaid ticket is not an definitive answer as if you buy a 2hr ticket its time stamped at time of sale - so if the bus is an hour or two late then your basically stuffed.
Mr Victor Laiviera
Jul 27th 2011, 10:11
This scheme was madness from start to finish. Its only purpose is to show that Austin Gatt is not subject to anybody's control - least of all by Lawrence Gonzi.
Michael Zarb
Jul 27th 2011, 10:06
Arriva should simply provide for a season ticket which is bought, for example, per month. This would reward and protect frequent users irrespective of nationality.
The current system is completely immoral. When I studied in London, I benefited not only from the cheaper season tickets because I used the tube every day but I also benefited from a student discount just like any other student - and this was BEFORE EU MEMBERSHIP.
Mr Tony Gatt
Jul 27th 2011, 11:09
As they say in England "I don't care what you do as long as you don't scare the horses!"
They don't care where you come from either, as long as you pay the proper fare for your particular position in life, i.e. OAP, student etc. .
Ben Agius
Jul 27th 2011, 11:51
Spot on my friend - good point.
Franco Abela
Jul 27th 2011, 10:04
Biex iktar inzidu mad-dewmien f'tal-linja, niccekjaw l-ID cards jonqos... u iktar u iktar dewmien meta jkun hemm xi hadd li ma jaqbilx li jhallas iktar u ovvjament joqghod jikkustinja mad-driver. Ma nthix tort pero EJJA HA MMORRU RAS FORSI XI DARBA NASLU!
Mr John Azzopoardi
Jul 27th 2011, 10:01
Thousands of maltese emigrants visit malta for weeks during the year and yes we are treated like foreigners by our country. What a shame. Again, fairs should be all the same for everyone - tourist and maltese alike. I think this is discrimatory. Where is the EU on all this. Hasn't any submitted a civil rights lawsuit on this.
U. D'Amico
Jul 27th 2011, 11:07
and your taxes are paid where?
Jesse Galea
Jul 27th 2011, 15:07
I don't know about you but some emigrants act really arrogant when they come to visit Malta!! They think that everything is wrong here and everything is right over where they live. Maybe that's why you get treated like foreigners becuase most of you don't even wnat to be called Maltese!!
Charlie Grech
Jul 27th 2011, 09:56
Pretty funny, Maltese people living abroad who were born and raised on this island don't get respect on Arriva buses but those who were born in Africa and came to Malta on a boat get better treatment.
Something is very wrong here
Mr David Willow
Jul 27th 2011, 10:33
its not about respect its about where you live....in the case of maltese nationals living abroad and coming back to visit their homeland (and rightfully so) for a few weeks or months a year wouldnt it make sense to just get an id card sorted out - problem solved.
Pauline Peterson
Jul 27th 2011, 10:54
@ David Willow,
Yes we wish we could get an ID card while we are there. Have you tried to get one, the amount of hoops you have to go through, and no, they won't give us one.
Mr David Willow
Jul 27th 2011, 11:13
i have one and have always had one since we moved here three years ago and it was not a problem for su - and we have changed our cards several times in between...too.... no hoops or hurdle to jump either...
Ben Agius
Jul 27th 2011, 11:50
Let's not discriminate any group! The issue is: why did this Government make such a bonehead decision in the first place? As far as I know - no where else have such tight ass rules for public transport. It's not a matter of where you pay your tax (as U D'Amico said). Maltese people don't pay taxes anywhere else but enjoy public transport for what locals in countries they visit pay. With this (yet again) bone headed decision made by the Government, you can see what's happening - something many Maltese are good at - they start attacking people that are making a point. This shouldn't apply to any tourist that visit Malta for two reasons: it doesn't apply in other countries AND if anything, Malta's economy is so affected by tourism that it is idiocy to invent such a scheme that can leave such bad taste on all tourists visiting the place.
Jesse Galea
Jul 27th 2011, 15:03
You can get dual citizenship ....my husbanc has it. If you really are Maltese, you can!
Claire Busuttil
Jul 27th 2011, 09:44
they left their land, and they have made a new life in another country,,,,rightly so, BUT......they should not be considered as Maltese now.....
Mr David Willow
Jul 27th 2011, 10:34
again its not about nationality is it...its about where you live.
Ms Ruth MIZZI
Jul 27th 2011, 10:35
Kemm hi brava ruhi !!! tista tghidli min fejn iggradwajt ???
Pauline Peterson
Jul 27th 2011, 10:51
Dear Claire,
I am very offended by your comment. Most of us who left Malta, left with our families. Our parents left not by choice but from necessity for a better life for their children after the war. You think it was some sort of adventure for them to leave their loved ones behind and travel by ship which in our case, took us four weeks to get here? No and it wasn't a cruise liner either. From my memory it was a rusty old oil tanker type of ship.
99.9% of us living abroard would love to come and live in the land of our birth. We are more Maltese than some who remained behind.
We love Malta maybe even more than you do. How dare you not consider us to be Maltese, if we were born there.
I agree with the comments here and particularly Mr Dimech’s comment that it is not for the extra euro we have to pay, but the principle of the matter.
Therefore I feel all should pay the same fare (whether the higher or lower one), and have concessions for the elderly and students as before.
Mr Tony Gatt
Jul 27th 2011, 11:31
@ Claire Busuttil
I find your remark rather insulting, really.
I was living and working in the U.K. in the 60's when the Maltese Government of the day said that anyone holding a Maltese passport would have it withdrawn if they applied for citizenship of another country. My job (Merchant Navy) required me to have a British passport. The U.K. authorities had no objection to dual-citizenship, but the Maltese government did.
Now- I was born in Malta. My parents were Maltese. My grandparents and my great-grandparents were Maltese (I've only gone back about 200 years tracing this out). So what am I?
I could apply to have a Maltese passport if I wanted one but I can't be bothered, for as long as we are all in the E.U. the one I have will do.
Ben Agius
Jul 27th 2011, 11:42
I am not really quibbling about the silly bus fares but for you to say what you said Claire you clearly do not accept the law of Malta as these migrants are Maltese Citizens by choice and this right was given to them AND THEIR CHILDREN by Malta. Of course also, at an emotional level, for these people - what you said is certainly insulting. Many migrants feel a huge connection to Malta for many reasons.
Richard Pace
Jul 27th 2011, 13:22
Mr Tony Gatt dual citizenship was restored in the late 80/90's and you can get both a Britsh and Maltese passport.
Mr Tony Gatt
Jul 27th 2011, 18:06
@ Richar Pace
Thanks- I know that but as long as I have an EU. passport I'm not bothered.
Phil Humphries
Jul 27th 2011, 09:42
Why is it taking the EU so long to decide this issue ? It is either a discriminatory practice UNDER EU LAW or it is not. - Simple as that !
If and when this is proven to be discriminatory, I imagine Arriva will issue a statement offering to reimburse any non-residents who can present their tickets as proof of overcharging. (Yeah, like they would all keep their tickets in the hope of making a claim). And what will happen to any unclaimed money ( i.e. nearly all it ) ? - Hmmmmm, I wonder ?
I don't suppose the Government is pressing for this to be resolved anytime soon.
Colin Camilleri
Jul 27th 2011, 09:42
Malta has become a jungle of double beaurocracy where it is seldom (if ever) replicated anywhere in Europe. Then we complain why things take very long to get moving, sorted or even cheaper. You do not know what I am referring? Ok, here you go:
a) Different Bus fares for residents and "non" residents.
b) Different taxation regimes for residents, non residents and "special" professionals.
c) Different road circulation taxes for same cars (i.e. registered pre 2008 or post 2008)
d) Different stamp duty when purchasing property.
e) Different taxation regime when selling property.
And the list goes on. Living abroad (UK and Germany) for the last 15 years I have never came across such complications. One taxation system, one road licence system, one property tax system, one income tax system and so.
The more we complicate things the more expensive it becomes. The more people you need to run it effectively and therefore it is more bound for mistakes. Delays follow. At the end? It is always us maltese citizens who take the brunt of it.
David Chanturidze
Jul 27th 2011, 09:26
"Mr Dimech said he was treated as a tourist" - what an arrogant sentance !!! what does it mean to be treated as a tourist ?!?!?! .... --- not talking about this ridiculous double payment for non ID holders, which definitely will lead to a problev with EU member states
Mr David Willow
Jul 27th 2011, 10:36
it just goes to show that tourists are treated terribly - even the malti dont like being treated like a tourist
Ben Agius
Jul 27th 2011, 11:37
Why do you say what Mr Dimech said was arrogant? Mr Dimech who is a Maltese living abroad with a Maltese Passport (given to him so he can have proof that he's Maltese) feels that when he is in Malta he is not a tourist but a Maltese Citizen visiting his country. Now in a narrow sense and in the context of the rules for public transport, he may be wrong. But he is not arrogant! As for the rest of your comment, I am still trying to understand it.
David Chanturidze
Jul 27th 2011, 16:43
I'm not saying about Mr. Dimech. The sentance itself is unacceptable, what does it mean to be treated as a tourist, what difference does it make for a buss driver you are a tourist or Maltese?
Mr William Pierce
Jul 27th 2011, 09:18
A two tier price system is complete lunacy. Apart from being discriminatory it makes the job of the poor driver even more difficult. Which idiot thought this one up?. No doubt a executive on a huge salary who has no idea of reality or the law.
Mr David Willow
Jul 27th 2011, 09:47
i agree it should no bet up to the driver to identify who you are? their job is difficult and dangerous enough - i do sympathise with them to a degree..the whols thing need serious urgent review with real input from experienced people
Ben Agius
Jul 27th 2011, 11:56
Spot on comment.
Sylvan Borg
Jul 27th 2011, 09:13
i think the question should read: why is there double pricing in the first place?
Mr David Willow
Jul 27th 2011, 09:19
thats an easy question to answer - the malti government want another way to fleece the tourist to enhance their dwindling coffers.
Ms Doris Schembri
Jul 27th 2011, 09:40
well said - when we go abroad, we pay the same fare as others in the EU....so why the distinction?
Mr Angelo Vassallo
Jul 27th 2011, 09:03
@ Mr Mario Busuttil
Sfortunatament tidher li ma fhimt assolutament xejn Sur Busuttil.
Hawn m'ahniex nitkellmu fuq l-immigranti li jigu mill-Afrika izda fuq l-EMIGRANTI MALTIN, li ghandhom cittadinanza doppja u allura ghandhom ukoll passaport Malti u li jghixu l-Awstralja, il-Canada, l-Ingilterra, l-Amerika ecc. ecc.
Mr Tony Camilleri
Jul 27th 2011, 09:39
Jekk dawk iċ-ċittadini Maltin b'ċittadinanza doppja jħallsu taxxi hawn Malta għandhom dritt il jħallsu daqskemm iħallsu ċittadinioħra Maltin.
Jekk le jjiddispjaċini li li għandhom iħallsu bħal ma jħallas barrani.
Din bħal meta ma jgħixux u ma jħallsux taxxi hawn Malta u hemm min minnhom qed jippretendi li jivvota wkoll.
Ma jħallsux taxxi u jwikkuna bi gvern li jridu huma.
Tgħid mhux hekk nibqgħu?
Raymond Sammut
Jul 27th 2011, 09:45
@ Mr Angelo Vassallo
Mr Busuttil makes a perfectly valid point. If you don't pay taxes in Malta, you can't expect to be treated as if you did. And in so far as I know, to be considered as a Maltese resident, you need to be on the Inland Revenue register. Else you are merely visiting, with a 3-month visa stamped on your passport. That's all you've got. You can't have it both ways. This is a question purely of whether you pay taxes in Malta or not, and it has absolutely nothing to do with "national pride".
Mr David Willow
Jul 27th 2011, 10:37
its nothing to do with paying taxed either it s where you live - period.
Charles Micallef
Jul 27th 2011, 08:50
Quote I’m not a foreigner. I’m Maltese and I’m very proud to be Maltese. I visit my country every year or two,” an upset Lawrence Dimech said, noting he even has property and money invested here. Unquote
The question should be does Mr dimech pay taxes in Malta?
and if he did he should be entilted to the same fare as the locals!
Mr David Willow
Jul 27th 2011, 08:55
then apply and get a malta government issued id card - simple.
Charles Micallef
Jul 27th 2011, 09:28
@David Willow,
and by the same thought if he is not paying taxes in Malta, why does he expect to purchase his bus tickets the same price as the ones who pay local taxes? it will be a bit of a cheek just bringing the subject up!
Cornelius Murphy
Jul 27th 2011, 09:52
@Mr Willow
I demand foreigners show their id card before they are allowed to comment on the Maltese bus system. How would you like that?
Mr David Willow
Jul 27th 2011, 10:40
at Cornelius Murphy - i have no problem with showing my id card at all...i have one and proud to do so....i chose to live here and have a right to vote just as i ahve a right as a resident to comment on the bus system.
Mr M Bonello
Jul 27th 2011, 08:44
what about europeans from the eu who are currently working in malta? paying tax etc in Malta? do they have to pay the higher price?
What about other nationals again paying tax in Malta? most of them will not have an ID card/passport, do they have to pay the higher price?
This is the first time i've seen it in my life, and to me it simply accounts to racism. Why does a Maltese born pay less, whilst somebody who works in Malta, pays taxes but is not born in Malta will have to pay more?
I think according to EU law it might even be illegal
Mr David Willow
Jul 27th 2011, 08:56
why wont they have an id card - you are required to have one within three months and in particular when employed.
i am an eu national and i dont pay the higher fares as i have an id card.
Pia Attard
Jul 27th 2011, 09:30
Please look up the meaning of "racism" before you throw that word around.
Mr Graham Holme
Jul 27th 2011, 08:44
No wonder the buses are unable to keep to schedule,drivers having to implement a two tier fare system,check ID cards,now looks like they will also be passport control,ludicrous situation
Mr Tony Gatt
Jul 27th 2011, 08:41
A very strange mind-set, the Maltese have. Fleecing foreigners is fine, but don't do it to us.
I live in the U.K. but have property in Malta. I spend 3 months each year in Malta, so am I a tourist? Well I'm non-resident so I guess I am. Whilst I think it's discriminatory to have two fares, I don't think the 2.60 day fare excessive.
As for the tax question. As a U.K. taxpayer, I pay tax some of which goes to the E.U. and presumably some of that finds its way to Malta. The Aussies apy nothing. So pay up and stop whingeing, Mr. Dimech.
Mr Tony Camilleri
Jul 27th 2011, 09:42
Mr Tony Gatt none of your tax gets here. We have always been net contributors to the eu, including paying soem Lm1,000,000 for the Thatcher rebate.
Mr Tony Gatt
Jul 27th 2011, 18:13
@ Mr. Camilleri
Sorry, but those are not figures I recognise. Germany, the Uk, France and Italy are the big contributers to the E.U which manages the finances so badly the accounts have not been signed-off for about 16 years.
Look up 'Budget for the European Union' in Wikipedia.
Mr Tony Gatt
Jul 27th 2011, 18:59
Mr. Tony Camilleri
I've just looked up another site; money-go-round e.u.
First of all the so-called rebate was negotiated because France tried to fiddle the CAP so that every French farmer with half a sheep woud get a massive subsidy.
Now- since joining, Malta has RECEIVED over 190 million euro more than it paid in and the U.K. has PAID over 86,500 million euro more than it received.
Can you tell me where you get your figures from please?
Mr Tony Camilleri
Jul 28th 2011, 00:21
Mr Tony Gatt what you don't recognize and whether you recognize them or not doesn't mean that it is not true.
We are net contributors including our share for the UK rebate which is about Lm1,000,000.
As far as the eu budget is concerned I am in total agreement with you that the eu mismanages the funds collected from the member countries citizens. It is a bottomless pit.
Mr Paul Caruana
Jul 27th 2011, 08:38
Another unnecessary polemic.
Reduced fares apply to Maltese residents of any nationality, not Maltese citizens! In fact, had the government apply reduced fares to all Maltese citizens who are non residents while maintaining high fares to non resident EU citizens visiting Malta, it would immediately run foul of EU rules!
Mr David Willow
Jul 27th 2011, 08:51
well said - its not decided on nationality - wherever you come from - its decided on RESIDENCY - i.e actually living here!!!!
Mr David Willow
Jul 27th 2011, 09:02
sorry i should rephrase this - its more like being able to provide an addressed id card at point of sale of ticket....anyone could get an id card whether you live here or not - as long as you are living here for a week or two - you could still get an id card and use it on every visit - not legal admittedly but it does show the shortfalls of the current id card system. There are no checks other than the initial one (the letter to the address given within one week of application - then you go to get your iod card issued- job done) - its n ot even based on paying tax...so that argument doesnt hold water.
Mr Peter Murray
Jul 27th 2011, 09:11
Where precisely is here David?As if residing in Gozo(that well known autonomous province of Malta)then you will enjoy even more privlieged fare and price structures.
Mr David Willow
Jul 27th 2011, 09:45
At P Murray - we live on malta.......and all of us have id cards....one of us works and the other two have cash invested here...my point being that to get the reduced fares its not essential to prove that you pay tax just prove you have a malta or gozo addressed id card - and in our experiences so far it only took a week to get those cards from the date of application...we have moved several times so far and have changed our id cards several times....however that in itself is no guarantee of anything as we know people here who have lived here for years and still do not have id cards nor residency..and others who have got them and have moved around much more than us and still have old addresses on them....cest la vie. Bottom line here is the present ticketing fares and requirements need to be thoroughly reviewed and i dont believe its an easy question to resolve to everyones satisfaction.
Mr David Willow
Jul 28th 2011, 10:45
at T Camilleri - so they allegedly contributed 1m LM - arent we int he EU so where does the maltese lira come in - isnt it a dead currency...no longer in existance or are you like many traders still living in the past and trading inLM when it doesnt exist....
Mr carmel callus
Jul 27th 2011, 08:24
Once Maltese emigrants do not reside in Malta they cannot be treated likewise. The cheaper fares are for persons residing in Malta, whether they are Maltese or not (i.e. holders of a Maltese Identity Card). Unlike Maltese emigrants who come over for a holiday, persons residing in Malta are the taxpayers who contribute their share to the subsidy which the operators are given annually...that is why the difference between fares paid by persons residing in Malta and those who come over for a holiday, including Maltese emigrants.
Mr Peter Murray
Jul 27th 2011, 08:22
Maltese on holiday in Gozo also don't want to be want to be treated as tourists and be able to receive the same subsidies as Gozitans for ALL forms of travel.All the the returning Maltese migrants holidaying in their homeland have to do is ensure that they maintain the criteria to enable them to be able to possess a Maltese I..D .signifying their nationality.In any event,all these differing fare and price structures- for all sorts of services- between Maltese,Gozitan ,EU citizens or residents are a national disgrace and reflect badly on our image abroad and should be discontinued forthwith.
Mr Tony Gatt
Jul 27th 2011, 09:07
Amen or Hekk-ikun to that!
paul valletta
Jul 27th 2011, 08:13
ara vera tal-misthija , jien ghadni qatt ma gejt bzonn li nuza is-servizzi ta' L-Arriva imma vera serq fil-wicc li ticcargja doppju lit-turist . hekk qedghin taghtu lok lill tal-barijiet u tal-restaurants biex jiccargjaw doppju lit-turist. Misshom jisthu l-Arriva , dawn minn fejn inqalaw . jien ma naqbilx maghha din is-sistema , imma kieku jaqla 50c izjed wiehed ma jarahiex kera imma mhux id-doppju . serq serq u serq .
Reuben Abela
Jul 27th 2011, 09:01
ahjar tghamel naqra ricerka qabel tohrog kummenti mizinfurmati bhal dan li ghadek kemm ktibt
Mr carmel callus
Jul 27th 2011, 10:29
skuzi, lil tal-bars u tar-restoranti m'ahniex nissussidjawhom bit-taxxi taghna kif qed naghmlu lis-servizz tal-karrozzi tal-linja. Tibqghux titkazaw ghalxejn. Ghaliex ghandna mit-taxxi taghna nissussidjaw ukoll in-nolijiet tat-turisti?
Ian Bugeja
Jul 27th 2011, 08:13
Come on .... a 7 day ticket costs only €12 - wow we Maltese are always complaining
Arthur Micallef
Jul 27th 2011, 09:38
Come on Ian, it's not a question of price but a question of pure discrimination which is not allowed in EU.
Jesse Galea
Jul 27th 2011, 08:04
Mr. Lawrence Dimech....you should know better than me (I only did 5 years in Australia) that Australia's bus fares are very expensive. How come you are complaining about the Maltese bus fares?!!
Mr Tony Borg
Jul 27th 2011, 08:45
I suppose the guy is complaining not because it costs whatever, but he feels discriminated against. And it is discrimination. I read many times in these blogs that the tourists don't pay tax the same a the local person however I'm sure there is some benefit to Malta to have tourists visiting the Island especially since Tourism is the biggest money earner for Malta. Do you disput that?
In the case of Maltese migrants who are visiting Malta, although they haven't been paying the same income tax as the locals you will find, over the years the migrants sent a lot of money to Malta to help their families there.
T Borg (Melb)
Mr Michael Buhagiar
Jul 27th 2011, 08:45
Because he is a labour agent in aaustralia. Because everything this government does is bad for people the likes of Dimech. Because there is an ongoing campaign of incitement aided and abetted by the formet ATP to denigrate Arriva and destroy it before it can give the Maltese people the same good seervice which it has been giving for years to the UK, Italy and other countries. Because they think that they can give the public transport back to the former criminals and odd arrogant faces.
Pauline Peterson
Jul 27th 2011, 11:15
@Jesse Galea,
In Australia if you are a pensioner, you can travel all day by bus, train, ferry (mix them up if you want) for $2.50 only. . If you are not a pensioner, they are still not expensive.
Ben Agius
Jul 27th 2011, 12:15
He is not complaining about bus fares! He's complaining about discrimination - in this case directed towards all tourists and visitors to Malta - even Maltese ones that live overseas.
Mr Albert Farrugia
Jul 27th 2011, 07:59
This 2-price system was thought up by Transport Malta, not by Arriva. So one must lay blame where it is due. The idea itself makes some sense, however, as it is being put into effect here it is unworkable. Although in theory the distinction is made between "resident" and "non-resident", whatever the nationality, this is being interpreted on the ground as a distinction between "Maltese" and "non-Maltese". Given circumstances in Malta, I think that this was inevitable and, once again, shows the very poor foresight of those who planned the new "system". In my travels I have never, ever, been asked a higher price because I was a non-resident. Yes, there are ways to positively discriminate in favour of residents as regards ticket prices, but these involve, for example, the buying of block tickets, say for example for a whole month or whole year. These tickets would normally be bought across a counter, a place where one can show the required IDs without any hassle. As it is, the driver has been now given the task of having to determine on the spot, steering wheel in hand, whether his passengers are Maltese or not, or residents or not, and what "resident" means, and what it does not....tell me...HOW can anyone expect the buses to run on time?
Mr Jeffrey Mallia
Jul 27th 2011, 07:48
Mr Dimech. According to our honourable transport minister Austin Gatt, if you can't afford a Euro 2.50 ticket, you'de rather have visited somewhere else.............he does'nt want cheap tourists.
Mr Tony Gatt
Jul 27th 2011, 09:11
Well said. If you can addord the fare from Oz, you can afford a couple of euro for a busfare.
Ben Agius
Jul 27th 2011, 12:10
That's a different issue. If he doesn't want cheap tourists - he's not going to change that through the bus fares. He has to do a lot more with the whole infrastructure of the place and what is on offer. And if he didn't want cheap tourists the maltese govt shouldn't have worked so hard to get cheap airlines to bring them over. Talk about biting the hand that feeds you! Of course the issue has nothing to do with this.................no other country has such a system and tourists - even Maltese ones- are treated the same as anyone else when they go overseas.
Joe Hili
Jul 27th 2011, 07:45
Ma ndahhqux nies bina iktar! Imkien fid-dinja ma jistaqsuk jekk intix barrani jew le biex thallas iktar. Jien sikwit insiefer, u qatt ma ltqajt ma buzullotti bhal dawn!
Pauline Peterson
Jul 27th 2011, 11:05
Well said Joe Hili. I agree with you 100%.
Mr Mario Busuttil
Jul 27th 2011, 07:39
If immigrants want to pay like maltese citizens,so they have to pay all contributes like maltese citizens,pay taxes,and social contributions....x'jonqoshom issa,,,immorru nahdmu ghalihom ukoll,li fil fatt tiga qed naghmlu hekk bit taxxi li nhallsu ghal l-okkomodazzjoni u l-ikel provdut b'xejn mill I-Istat .....
Mr Joseph Sammut
Jul 27th 2011, 10:03
The article speaks about Maltese emigrants and not immigrants. Please read carefully next time.
Mr Anthony Mifsud Bonnici
Jul 28th 2011, 04:55
Ftakar li issa dhalna fl-EUROPA habib. Intix xi wiehed li vvutajt ghall-EUROPA sabiex tispicca d-diskriminazzjoni?
Richard Pace
Jul 27th 2011, 07:28
Get an ID card. It's issued on the same day from Valletta
Mr David Willow
Jul 27th 2011, 08:53
its not - it takes a week as they have to write to the address given on application to verify address.
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