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Sunday, July 17, 2011 by

Mark Micallef

Defector considers contesting election on Labour Party ticket

Cyrus Engerer: Liberals feeling uncomfortable in the PN.

Cyrus Engerer: Liberals feeling uncomfortable in the PN.

Sliema deputy mayor Cyrus Engerer, who resigned from the Nationalist Party on Friday, is considering contesting the next general election on the Labour ticket.

“Yes, there has been talk (with Labour officials) about me contesting the next election. However, in the meantime what is important for me is that I am going to be an active member of the Labour Party and will be working to see a change in certain policies of the party, which, in my view, can be improved,” he said.

In recent days he has spoken with PL party officials and to Labour leader Joseph Muscat, with whom he has a meeting this week. He was also offered a position on the party’s think tank, the Ideat Foundation.

Mr Engerer’s resigned from the PN after calling for the Prime Minister’s resignation in the wake of Lawrence Gonzi’s No vote against divorce legislation on Wednesday.

Speaking to The Sunday Times yesterday, Mr Engerer said the decision has been long coming and pointed out he had told PN administration officials immediately after the referendum he was not feeling “comfortable” with the direction the party was taking, and warned them he would resign if the Prime Minister’s vote “went against the will of the majority”.

However, the idea goes further back to his involvement with the cross party pro-divorce movement Stand Up.

“I worked closely with a number of Labour members and MPs within the Stand Up movement. I spoke with the young people within the Labour Party and it became clear that we have the same aims and the same principles. I was left thinking I don’t get the same feeling within the Nationalist Party,” he said.

“My position is not unique and there are others in the Nationalist Party who share my position. I was contacted by a lot of people as the Prime Minister’s vote approached and can assure you I’m not alone,” he stressed, highlighting it was a difficult decision but one he is “relieved” to have taken.

“A lot of Nationalists have complained that the time when we try to change PN is over because the party does not want to change. It has become a party that is closed and which is becoming more conservative and confessional,” he said.

But although he reported a positive response to his move from family, friends and constituents, many, including online commentators, criticised the sudden switch of allegiance.

Only a few weeks ago at the PN general council, Mr Engerer was criticising Joseph Muscat’s general lack of vision on economic policy among other things.

Mr Engerer said he still disagreed with Labour’s stand not to disclose its economic policies for the time being, but said he had come round after being given briefings about what the party was planning.

“In this past week I have met and learnt what Labour is planning and I really feel comfortable with it. My opinion is still that the Labour Party should discuss these plans with the public and disclose what its policies are,” he said.

Mr Engerer had also criticised Dr Muscat’s comments on Xarabank regarding gay marriage (as opposed to civil partnerships) and the adoption of children by same sex couples.

“I can tell you there is a big team in the Labour Party who believe in full equality and I will be forming part of this team. Joseph Muscat, like many others, has his opinion and it doesn’t mean that opinions don’t change,” he said.

He insisted the PL was already well ahead of the Nationalist Party in its proposals.

“The reality is that you have a Nationalist Party which is dormant on these issues. If you look at what the Labour Party is proposing, not only is there a first step but a very large step forward towards equality,” he said.

Mr Engerer has vowed to remain on the Sliema council as an independent councillor despite calls by PN general secretary Paul Borg Olivier, whom, he said, called on Friday to ask him to step down.

“I will remain loyal to the people who elected me. If you speak to the people and councillors in my village they will tell you I have served Sliema with energy and enthusiasm.”

He said that although he was elected on the PN ticket, people knew where they stood when they voted for him, insisting that the party had changed –not him.

“The Nationalist Party was always conservative. However, in the past at least there was a mix, a collage of conservatives and liberals.

“Today that collage is being painted all in the same colour, it’s becoming much more conservative and much more confessional and the liberal people within the party are feeling very uncomfortable,” he said.

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Mr leo attard

Jul 19th 2011, 20:36

'flimkien kollox possibli'

money no problem!

MaryJo Camenzuli

Jul 18th 2011, 15:58




Criticism = 'hate'?

To see real hate, go into websites specifically setup by Labour sympathisers
to intimidate and dish out gutter dirt on people who criticise Labour
and read the insults and name-calling of Cyrus Engerer...
until he was with the Nationalists.


.

Joe Fenech

Jul 19th 2011, 07:31

Ms Camenzuli

Criticism = hate? You seem to be redefining the concept of criticism !

MaryJo Camenzuli

Jul 18th 2011, 15:59





Ask the Greeks, Spaniards, Italians, Portuguese and Irish.



.

Steve Pace

Jul 18th 2011, 12:33

Your comment "After all, the PL is made up of anyone who wants to join in the merry making and let's have a whale of a time!"

reminds me very much of the attitude some people had towards those labour supporters who during the EU campaign decided to join PN. Who knows , perhaps it was the PN that at the time was giving so much of a false sense of security .

Alfred Falzon

Jul 18th 2011, 15:52

@Steve Pace

When it is a question of a "false sense of security" one has only to recall the marriage of convenience between the PL and Karmenu Mifsud Bonnici's CNN during the EU Referendum campaign, the latter currently actively engaged in playing the apologist for the ruthless Khadafi regime crimes against humanity under cover of a splinter movement made up of a few individuals!
Can you imagine Malta today under such a lackey administration?!
Can you likewise imagine Malta sharing a secret military treaty with North Korea?
Do you call that an authentic "sense of security"?

Mr David Farrugia

Jul 18th 2011, 15:35

one can now understand WHY your rants against divorce. It was obviously a political issue for you.

Ms Maria Vella

Jul 18th 2011, 19:20

Am sure now that you have given Cyrus your blessing, he will sleep at peace. am sure he was waiting for it

hallina, tridx

Roderick Spiteri

Jul 18th 2011, 08:27

You really don't have anything to comment about huh!? lolll tut tut

Mr Jo Meli

Jul 18th 2011, 15:40

Sliema is a VILLAGE with an ego of a town !

Even Birkirkara, from where Sliema got its 'independence' is a VILLAGE.

Hallina Henry :)

MaryJo Camenzuli

Jul 18th 2011, 16:01




He has been enticed, then, as he puts it.

With what?



.

jack bristow

Jul 17th 2011, 19:21

Your comment smells like full of hatred...

Can imagine your feelings are all concentrated around the real picture...

That your time is out...

KEEP IT UP MR ENGERER, SHOW THESE "sirs" YOU CAN DO IT & BE PROUD OF YOUR CAPABILITY.

FUTURE BELONGS TO PEOPLE CAPABLE TO CHANGE, LET FOLLOWERS BARK.

Mr l Azzopardi

Jul 17th 2011, 19:36

se tqabbel il-schembri adami ma Cyrus? u hallina!!

J. Schembri

Jul 17th 2011, 19:46

Nikki Dimech and Mario Farrugia Borg.
I wonder where these guys are hidden!

MaryJo Camenzuli

Jul 17th 2011, 17:51





Do you agree with gay marriage, Mr Seychell?



.

Mr John Azzopoardi

Jul 17th 2011, 18:13

Yes, but you don't change a party because you disagree or do not like Gonzi. YOu have a set of values and it's like to doing a 360 to change what you really believe in. I do believe, the PN will lose in the next election, at that point, the PN can elect a new leader and start the healing process . A party gets stronger, after it gets a dose of reality and lose and electon.

Mr Charles Bayliss

Jul 17th 2011, 18:59

MaryJo

Is it possible that you can read? Did Mr Seychell mention Gay Marriage in the above comment? Or you wanted to be a homophobic ass???!!!

J. Schembri

Jul 17th 2011, 19:51

John Azzoppardi I hope like you do that it will be a 360 degree turn not a 180 .

This is typical PL inteligentia writing!

Mr anna maria xuereb

Jul 17th 2011, 22:00

@ Mary jo camenzuli: what s your problem? you really need to give the keyboard a break and get a life. bitter about the yes vote, and now this! And yes we do want gay marriages because gays have the right to a happy life too! and no it will not lead to abortion and euthanasia so spare us your bitterness please.

Andy Farrugia

Jul 18th 2011, 10:18

@ Charles Bayliss

Since when has asking a question "Do you agree with gay marriage?" come to indicate homophobia? Is this your level of tolerance? Branding other people as "homophobic ass(es)?

@ Anna Maria Xuereb

"And yes we do want gay marriages because gays have the right to a happy life too!" So, according to you a happy life can only be obtained through marriage and those people who do not marry are condemned to a lifetime of unhappiness. Interesting. While we're at it, can you tell us what makes you so sure that abortion and euthanasia will not follow?

MaryJo Camenzuli

Jul 18th 2011, 12:04



Charles Bayliss,
Anna Maria Xuereb,


I was asking Malcolm Seychell whether he agrees with gay marriage.

Can I?


.

Mary Borg

Jul 18th 2011, 12:43

Mr Anna Maria,
"you really need to give the keyboard a break and get a life."

Why don't you mind your own business Mr Anna Maria?

David Seychell

Jul 18th 2011, 15:31

"and no it will not lead to abortion and euthanasia so spare us your bitterness please. "

Abortion and same-sex "marriage" are both slippery slopes towards each other. The introduction of abortion would mean that Society does not care about the natural right of the unborn child to have a life, whilst the introduction of Same-sex "marriage" would mean that Society does not care about the natural right or need of children to have a mother and father.

Peter Gatt

Jul 17th 2011, 17:44

well said

Mario Micallef

Jul 17th 2011, 17:52

well done and well said MaryJo

Alfred Mangion

Jul 17th 2011, 19:37

Ms Camenzuli, do not presume anything with the likes of Cyrus Engerer. Just to remind you and others that he is quoted to have said that "the progressive movement led by Dr Muscat represented his principles and values". Does he mean to say that the PL represent the "Demochristian" principles and values, amongst other principles and values, that on the 27 June 2011 when addressing the PN General Council, Cyrus Engerer declared that he was so proud of?

Go and say that to the marines, Cyrus, but ensure that the marines are drunk if you want them to believe you.

Anyone who wishes to realise, if he has not as yet realised, what stuff Cyrus Engerer is made of, he should visit his articles on his website cyrusengerer.com.

MaryJo Camenzuli

Jul 17th 2011, 17:42



Do you need a push?



.

Alfred Falzon

Jul 17th 2011, 21:31

@Charles Camilleri
Mind you, this Cyrus Engerer who favours gay marriage, might give you too big a push,...and then?

MaryJo Camenzuli

Jul 17th 2011, 15:28



Will Joseph Muscat grant gay marriage?



.

MaryJo Camenzuli

Jul 17th 2011, 15:34



I presume you are saying that if, in future,
a referendum is held about gay marriage
and the majority of electors votes against,
then Mr Engerer must change his opinion and
vote against gay marriage if he is in Parliament.


.

Mr Anthony Briffa

Jul 17th 2011, 15:35

Of course everybody can see JM's liberal views. Cyrus will learn at his own expense in due course what a means to an end means. He had better sought Dr. Vassallo's view on democracy and liberalism in the PL under JM before switching, in a short time as he wants us to believe, his allegiance from blue to red.

As the article is rightly calling him a defector, I want to ask Cyrus what did JM promise him on the PL manifesto for the next election. Maybe he has been promised that the either the PL will introduce same sex marraiges or should it win the nect election there will be somebody to introduce a private motion in parliament to that effect. By now we all know that JM/PL are not capable of taking an official stand on anything in order not to upset anybody. Their politics are fence politics.

Andy Farrugia

Jul 17th 2011, 19:22

@ MaryJo Camenzuli

"Will Joseph Muscat grant gay marriage?"
But even if this had to happen, which i doubt, it would not satisfy Mr Engerer. He is after "equality" and that includes adoption rights.



.

Mr M Saliba

Jul 17th 2011, 14:59

The politcal parties have the same main principle, they are supposed to work in favour of Malta and the Maltese. You can change party and remain faithful to your principal.

btw Mr Engereris a graduate in European Studies and Communications from the University of Malta, Cyrus obtained a Master Degree in Politics, specialising in European politics, at the College of Europe in Bruges, Belgium, which gave him the opportunity to experience first-hand European Union politics due to the College’s proximity to Brussels. ( from Syrus Engerer website)

Therefore Mr Engerer is very literate in politics, and is seeing things on a different level than us commentators

MaryJo Camenzuli

Jul 17th 2011, 17:20




Mr M Saliba:

He's surely no master in good politics
if he has crossed over to Labour
but wants to keep his seat in the Sliema local council
which he got because people wanted to vote for the Nationalist Party.

If he's a master in correct politics
he should have resigned
and would have gained some respect.


.

Mr M Saliba

Jul 17th 2011, 23:56

Ms MaryJo Camenzuli

You have to respect the fact that Mr Engerer has every right to be a member of a party of his choice. This already happened in Parliament when Wenzu Mintoff left the MLP and kept his parliamentary seat AD representative.

Mr Engerer has a every right to remain a member of the council. In fact the PN direction has shied away from publicly asking Mr Engerer to resign from the Sliema Local Council.

In order to respect the will of the majority of voters in the Sliema local council election , the Sliema mayor ought to be a PN represenatative, but this does not imply that the mayor should always vote in line with party direction. If the interest of his locality is different from that of the party, the mayor ought to follow the people's interest, rather than the party's direction. This also applies to the councillors.

Mr Engerer was elected by the people's vote and, and it is the people in the next local election who will decide if Mr Engerer is to remain a Sliema councillor or not.

Charles J. Buttigieg

Jul 17th 2011, 17:15

Lino,how many of the eligible voters voted NO?

MaryJo Camenzuli

Jul 17th 2011, 17:22



Charles J Buttigieg:

just facts without comment -
37.7% of eligible voters voted Yes, and
33.2% of eligible voters voted No.

.

Mr anna maria xuereb

Jul 17th 2011, 22:08

@ mary jo camenzuli: and the YES vote won. if the others who didnt vote were dead set against divorce they should have voted no. but thank fully the yes vote won. get over it.

Mr M Borg

Jul 17th 2011, 13:58

No one in Sliema will trust him anymore.

He can form his own party if he wants nothing will change. He is finished !!

Lino Fava

Jul 17th 2011, 18:57

In principle when voting in local council election we vote for the best person who can serve at his best his locality. Not for the party. The party that is in government should help the councils to give there best to the local they are serving and help them in anything they ask for. We must never have a council to be a propaganda for any political party. Whats the use then to have a council to be a puppet by politicians which we have much doubt about there output. The politicians that for some of them admitted themselves not to attend because of lack of interest. We and all of good will should make these councils unchained, good and thrust worthy persons which luckily enough we have some.

Andy Farrugia

Jul 17th 2011, 12:43

"Il-bniedem jevolvi": so much for principles and values.

Mrs C Zammit

Jul 17th 2011, 13:35

Mr Farrugia - that was only a few days ago and I thought principles are principles. So what makes you think he wont change again his principles in a couple of days more. Indeed he seems to like divorce.

Andy Farrugia

Jul 17th 2011, 14:57

Sorry, Mrs C Zammit, therefore if this was only a few days ago, then it was a Damascene conversion, a prodigiously swift evolution.

Carmel Lino Vella Clark

Jul 17th 2011, 13:10

May I remind Mr. Abela that three years ago he and all the PL had written off Dr. Lawrence Gonzi, so much so the the PL Secretary General, Jason Micallef, immediately after the voting of last election, had declared that he was sure that the PL had won the 2008 General Election and immediately after his declaration, all
PL supporters took to the street to celebrate. Yet we all know what happened after!!!!
So let the last soar experience be a lesson - never count the chickens before they are hatched.
Lino Vella Clark
Msida

Mr C Busuttil

Jul 17th 2011, 15:44

Noel Abela

Sant said he felt St. Sebastian was referred to the attacks of Dom Mintoff and the old leader replied "Mela jien minn Hal-Qormi" It had nothing to do with attacks from all sides

Noel Abela

Jul 17th 2011, 18:31

Dream on boy............Dream on

MaryJo Camenzuli

Jul 17th 2011, 12:18



He has already been found wanting.

If he had an iota of decency
he would have resigned his seat in the local council.

He cannot represent PN voters from the Labour HQ.

.

Mr Henry Mifsud

Jul 17th 2011, 11:44

Here we go again, Ms. Camenzuli is irked!

But then it seems she has nothing else to do except seeking vengeance of some sort from those who are anti-PN.

Wish you luck MaryJo!

MaryJo Camenzuli

Jul 17th 2011, 12:22





I remember Sandro Schembri Adami
being extolled as some kind of saviour in 1991
when he shifted to Labour
a few months before one of the worst Labour defeats.



.

david jenkins

Jul 17th 2011, 14:25

you, my friend, are the only logical one in here. the others speak emotionally but illogically.

gone are the days when you're born "coloured", marry your same colour, multiply to have "same coloured children" and die of the same "colour"... and god forbid if one of your children dares to contradict or ask why.

I am NOT saying that I approve this instant turn of events, but I guess he does have the right to change his mind,allegiance and what not !

JOE ZAHRA

Jul 17th 2011, 16:40

Well done from an old man ,the future in politics belong to you and your age .Mr Engerer you are a brave man, I been Labour all my life and a menber of the party WELLCOME.



.

John Borg (mlh)

Jul 17th 2011, 13:11

Good point.
Recently on Xarabank, Dr. Muscat expressed his views on this subject and was very clear on certain points concerning same sex marriages.
It will be interesting to see how Cyrus reacts if and when he and his leader do not agree.

Ken Cowan

Jul 17th 2011, 14:09

And what if gay marriage WAS next "on the agenda"?
Have you no conception of the word "equality"?
Are gay people not PEOPLE?
Are THEIR emotions, THEIR loves so completely bizarre to the HUMAN construct that such a thing as "gay marriage" should be refused out of hand?
Your comment says more about your own bigotry and blinkered intellect than it does about anything being "wrong" about gay marriage.
Coda comment: Canada, Spain, , Belgium, and seven other countries have now had gay marriage for an average of five years - Holland for ten; in all that time, there has been absolutely NO reason to believe that the "institution" of marriage has been harmed in any way. SO WHERE IS THE PROBLEM?
What is it about gay marriage that creates such blind, knee-jerk opposition?
Ignorance? Intolerance? Stupidity? Plain meanness? Lack of empathy or compassion?
An ENORMOUS capacity to judge others - all the while spouting "Christian values" - but completely forgetting that Christ himself said "Judge not that ye be not judged"?
The most important "value" here is HUMAN... what ARROGANCE to be opposed to two people loving each other and wishing to marry .
BY the way, almost every argument that has ever been used against gay marriage are the exact same ones trotted out 50 years ago against different races marrying in the USA. Well, has the sky fallen since THAT bigotry was ended?


David Seychell

Jul 17th 2011, 17:24

@Ken Cowan

The institution of Marriage is about a specific type of relationship and commitment that the State wants to recognize and promote because it's in the best interest of children and society in general. The institution of Marriage is about promoting and encouraging the formation of a nuclear family (mother+father+offsprings). Marriage seek to strengthen the union of a man and a woman who love each other in order to encourage procreation within a children-friendly envirenment and to create long term stability that children needs. Same sex relationships have absolutely nothing to do with Marriage.

Are gay people not PEOPLE? Are THEIR emotions, THEIR loves so completely bizarre to the HUMAN construct that such a thing as "gay marriage" should be refused out of hand?

Marriage is not just about PEOPLE and LOVE. A brother and sister or uncle and niece or a Muslim man and six woman are also about PEOPLE and LOVE but that doesn't mean they can marry each other. I know a woman who never got married. She lives alone with her dog. She loves her dog and her dog loves her. They take care of each other, jifirhu b'xulxin, are committed to each other, live in the same house, sleep in the same bed and are loyal to each other. For her, this dog is all her family. All this, however, doesn't mean that she should have a right to marry her dog.

"Coda comment: Canada, Spain, , Belgium, and seven other countries have now had gay marriage for an average of five years - Holland for ten; in all that time, there has been absolutely NO reason to believe that the "institution" of marriage has been harmed in any way. SO WHERE IS THE PROBLEM?"

All these countries also have abortion and they say "there has been absolutely NO reason to believe" that children or babies were "harmed in any way."

Yeah sure.

Mr Jo Camm

Jul 17th 2011, 11:17

Dak ghazel il-Labour ghax dawk jaccettaw kollox. L-AD ma tantx huma boghod mil-Labour.

Joseph Sammut

Jul 17th 2011, 11:44

Jien ikolli naqbel mieghek. X'ghandu xjuri Cyrus, qeghdin inpinguh qisu xi politikant kbir, fil-polikita ghadu halib ommu fi sninu - xi hadd jista jmerija din? Tela fil-kunsill locali b-habi tal-life style tieghu, min vici sindku irid jghid lil-kap tal-partit tieghu w l-prim ministru ta pajjiz x'ghandu jghamel, jitkellem fil-kunsill generali kontra l-PL meta issa qed ghid li din li ghamel ilu jikkunsidra - xhem xi tghid iktar? fd

Mr N Zahra

Jul 17th 2011, 11:08

Hear hear! You can say that again!

Joseph J Camilleri

Jul 17th 2011, 16:12

Even the Prime Minister has a right to his opinion and values.

Ms Rudi Mcbeal

Jul 17th 2011, 10:34

Why should those you call PN apologists be bothered by Mr Engerers actions? Pray, tell. In my opinion something like this is a very positive thing for the PN.

Which writing, J Brincat? One bit of advice - don't count your chickens before they hatch. It could save you great disappointment.

Mario Grima

Jul 17th 2011, 11:00

@ Ms. Mcbeal
'Pray, tell. In my opinion something like this is a very positive thing for the PN'.

Is that so? Since when is the fact that the hardliners are deserting the PN considered positive? Mr. Brincat is not counting any chickens (did he mention the PL will win the next election?) but stating real facts, but as always real facts tend to cut deep in the flesh. Perhaps we might also see you joining the new PL, you are more than welcome!!!

Ms Rudi Mcbeal

Jul 17th 2011, 15:23

It is positive and how, Mr Grima. The PN is getting rid of opportunists and those who are not willing to stick to the party's principles. THAT in my opinion is a very positive thing for the party, even if they lose the next general elections.

Sorry to disappoint you but I greatly fear excessive liberalism. Excessive liberalism makes me cringe because I have witnessed its results on certain societies. That is apart from the fact that I am not in the least convinced that your leader would make a good PM either. So no, no chance of the new PL getting my vote, let alone joining your party. Thanks, but no thanks.

Joseph Sammut

Jul 18th 2011, 07:49

Make sure you read all the writing on the wall!!

Mr Victor Calleja

Jul 17th 2011, 09:58

Prosit Mr Mifsud.

MaryJo Camenzuli

Jul 17th 2011, 11:43



Cyrus Engerer wants the Prime Minister to resign
but he has kept his own seat on the Sliema local council
even though he has now crossed to Labour.

Iħobbu s-siġġu Cyrus.

.

Mr C Busuttil

Jul 17th 2011, 16:06

L-ewwelnett SLIMIZI mhux sliemizi.

Who was one of the main actors in removing Dimech?
Who opposed Dimech from the begining, therefore making the council not functional?

What achievements Engerer can speak of since he and others voted Dimech out?
Nothing, the council hardly meets and really with a quorum.

Mr Victor Calleja

Jul 17th 2011, 09:56

Miskin

R Abela

Jul 17th 2011, 10:26

Miskin +

j camilleri

Jul 17th 2011, 10:27

Sur Nestu Vella, ghalinqas U-Turns u mhux Ghall gol-Hajt !

Mr Wally Vella-Zarb

Jul 17th 2011, 10:38

Kemm hu qares dan l-għeneb!

Chris Camilleri

Jul 17th 2011, 12:16

Mr Vella,

Hemm eluf kbar ta' nies li fl-elezzjoni tal-2008 ivvutaw PN u li fir-Referndum tad-Divorzju ivvutaw "IVA", skont int dawn ghandhom jitlqu wkoll u jmorru mal-Labour? U jekk jitlaq JPO mill-PN ma jaqax il-Gvern prezenti!! X'tahseb?

Mr G Mangion

Jul 17th 2011, 12:03

@ Andrea Gatt

Agree 100%

Imma allura li ghedt int ma japlikkax ghall P.M ???

quote ( u hadd ma ghandu jindahalek ) !!!

G. Mangion.

E. Vassallo

Jul 17th 2011, 09:58

Are you still in the PL?have you tried Lowell, AN or Ad? Because I think you were PN, MLP and AN?

David Philip Farrugia

Jul 17th 2011, 12:02

why 2001? so you were enticed by Alfred Sant visionary?

Mr Jo Meli

Jul 17th 2011, 14:20

For the attention of Mr. E. Vassallo

I consider Political Parties as a TOOL to serve La Patria, and hence, if the Political Party in Power became blunt or does not represent the need of the People, I would vote it out of Power - or at least I did my part in doing so.

I have never been an Alternative member, although I have many friends at AD, including fellow EX pn Assistant Secretary General Carmel Cacopardo.

As for AN, Azzjoni Nazzjonali BETRAYED its promises, at the Foundation Launch, during the course of its pityful existance.

Noman Lowell is the ONLY Political beast that did NOT lie to the People. He is blunt, at times cruel, at times sound like a crazy person, never-the-less he NEVER lied to the People. HISTORY in the long term will prove him RIGHT !

As for Mr. David Philip Farrugia, look up my reason for dumping the Once Glorious Partito Nazionalista on this link please :

http://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.145431095517268.28447.100001511355825#!/photo.php?fbid=145442198849491&set=a.145431095517268.28447.100001511355825&type=1&theater

and here

http://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.145431095517268.28447.100001511355825#!/photo.php?fbid=145449612182083&set=a.145431095517268.28447.100001511355825&type=1&theater

or on Face Book under Jo Meli - no need to add me up as all contents are available to EVERYBODY.

Thank you

DVX

Lawrence Attard

Jul 17th 2011, 15:02

Mr Meli, having a democratic right to do something does not equate to that something being admirable.
I have a democratic right for instance to go out and gamble all my money and drink myself silly every night, but does that mean you would find it an admirable or confidence-inspiring quality in me?

I agree with you about Malta first and foremost, but the question is whether Mr Engerer is seeking the "national interest" or just a party who will accomodate his agenda.

Mr Charles Bayliss

Jul 17th 2011, 10:51

I think that the definition of marriage in Malta is that of a church marriage which is inaccurate. There is also the state marriage, the one that us gay people are looking at. But we do not call it same-sex marriage but MARRIAGE EQUALITY because as Maltese Citizens. Because we have to be equal in our responsibility to the state, we seek to be equal also in marriage.

Charles J. Buttigieg

Jul 17th 2011, 14:12

Charles,you can't be equal to something different. Marriage,State or Church,is a natural bond between a man and a woman and between a male and a female in the animal world also. I repeat myself by stating that any two persons have the right to form a union between them and the State should protect and provide the legal framework accordingly. I would,however,refuse to call it marriage and giving it the same standing like a legal union between a man and a woman.

Joseph J Camilleri

Jul 17th 2011, 16:27

Yes definitely, marriage is between a male and a female, a man and a woman. I am all out for equality between same sexes but not marriage. Marriage was never meant to be between beings of the same sex. That is the only naturalbond as God intended it to be.

Mr Charles Bayliss

Jul 17th 2011, 16:38

Mr Buttigieg, call it what you may. You are doing like what AD did, promising Civil Union WITH FULL RIGHTS AS HETEROSEXUAL COUPLES, but they refuse to call it Marriage Equality. I cannot understand why we don't call a spade a spade?

Perhaps because we are in a "Catholic" Malta (sic)? There are 7 European countries, 2 South American countries and South Africa that have Marriage Equality. Btw Portugal and Spain are both Catholic Countries with the latter more Catholic then Catholic Malta. In fact, 66% of their population were in favour of Marriage Equality, even though their church was saying no to Marriage Equality.

Admitting it or not, we know that many Maltese base their judgement on religious beliefs and not on civic believes. Shame, we are Maltese Citizens and not Roman Catholics Citizens !!!!!

Charles J. Buttigieg

Jul 17th 2011, 17:36

Charles,as far as I'm concerned religion has absolutely nothing to do with this. If my view was inspired by religion I wouldn't be able to condone same sex unions can I? As to call a spade a spade you are the one who is calling a spade a shovel. Marriage stands for multiplication and it takes the two different sexes to multiply. And please don't hold that against me,you may try to blame it on whoever created nature not on me.

David Seychell

Jul 17th 2011, 17:41

Mr Buttigieg made a valid point here. A time may come for the gays within the LP to campaign in favour of civil partnership or something else within those lines that would legally recognize those who are partners in life. However, they should avoid mentioning gay marriage or gay adoptions, unless they want to scare the electorate. If you aim to high, you risk ending up with nothing.

David Seychell

Jul 18th 2011, 04:31

@ Mr Charles Bayliss
"But we do not call it same-sex marriage but MARRIAGE EQUALITY because as Maltese Citizens."

"Marriage equality" is a contradiction in terms.

The purpose of the institution of Marriage is NOT to put all different sexual/emotional relationships on an EQUAL level. On the CONTRARY, its purpose is to encourage and promote a specific type of relationship and commitment which is in the best interest of children and society in general. Ideally, children should be the result of the love between their mother and father who are seriously committed to each other(wedlock) and thus creating long term stability that children needs. THAT is the basic aim of Marriage. "Marriage Equality" is just a politically correct term behind which one tries to hide the real intention, which is to hijack the main purpose and function of the institution of Marriage.

Mr Stephen Borg

Jul 17th 2011, 09:55

Did Lawrence Gonzi hear Mr Cyrus Engerer and those 52 percen which voted Yes in the 28th May referendum when he voted No for divorce in Parliment? I think not.

C. Mifsud

Jul 17th 2011, 10:26

In my comment I said that I fully understand his resignation. I just think that it was not a very intelligent political move to change party in 24hrs.. and IMO it makes him unreliable. that's all.

Mario Grima

Jul 17th 2011, 11:11

Cyrus stood up to be counted not like Gonzi who shifted the responsibility of the divorce issue upon the electorate by calling a useless referedum. With the majority ignoring the PN's call for a 'No' vote he chickened out by voting 'No' in the 2nd reading of the divorce bill. What kind of leader does that to his people and to those PN members of parliament who voted 'yes' in parliament.

B Gauci

Jul 17th 2011, 17:08

This comment needs a huge LIKE button.

Mario Mifsud

Jul 17th 2011, 09:30

No No Mr Cowie. First he gets a divorce from the PN, marries PL, the gets another divorce from PL and joins another party. That's how it goes now. Ask Mr Engerer, he is an expert.

Mr Charles Bayliss

Jul 17th 2011, 09:51

Sur Aquilina

Ahna nafu li inti min ta' gewwa fil-PN u probabli paxxut. Flok tattaka lil Cyrus, ahjar iddur dawra madwarek u tara x'inhu jaghmel I-partit! Fejn hu l-partit li bran EFA? Fejn hi l-inklussivita' li darba kien ihaddan il-PL? Inthom tant sar ghandkom ghanbut li mhux taraw 'l barra min imnihierkom. Qed titilfu hafna nies, fisthom lili. Sa ftit tal-jien ilu kont bi hsieb li nqatta' l-vot, imma tant qed nara affarijiet fosthom arroganza li gegheltuni niddeciedi li ghall-ewwel darba nitfa' l-vot fuq l-ahmar. Qatt ma kont nimmagina li se naghmel hekk.

Meta rbahna ir-referendum ta' l-EU konna ghajjarna lil Alfred Sant anti-demokratiku ghax ma riedx ma riedx jaccetta I-verdett tsk-poplu. Issa li l-verdett tal-poplu hu dak li hu fuq id-Divorzju ghaliex Gonzi bil-vot tieghu fil-parliament kien anti-demokratiku. Ftakar li meta rebah l-Iva hu hareg jghid li Il-Verdett tal-Maggoranza ghandha tigi rrispettatha. Imma bl-agir tieghu jidher bic-car li tefa' l-bahar dak kollu li suppost jen en bih - Id-DEMOKRAZIJA. Barra li urta numru kbir ta' MPs, insomma din mhux l-ewwel darba li ghamilha. Iona nisimghu stejjer fil-media indipendenti.

Jien nixtieq riposte ghal mistoqsija li gejja: Johnny Dalli u Louis Galea inghataw il-karigi fl-Ewropa ghax
Kien haqqhom Jew biex jitwarrbu min-nofs? Ahna l-poplu nafu l-verita' kollha ghax il-hajt ghandu widintu unl-qazba ma ccaqcaqx ghalxejn.

Daniel Goggi

Jul 17th 2011, 10:47

Well said Ms. Garroni! Well said!

Lina Ghirxi

Jul 17th 2011, 09:53

F'Tas-Sliema ivvutaw lil Cyrus ghall-Kunsill kemm Nazzjonalisti kif ukoll Laburisti. Kienu jafu li kien wiehed mill-ftit kontestanti għall-Kunsill li jwassal lehen ir-residenti u jahdem dwaru. U hekk ghamel bla distinzjoni ta' kulur politiku. Għalhekk fl-opinjoni tieghi m'ghandux jirrezenja mill-Kunsill. Alla hares ma kienx hu ghal tas-Sliema!

MaryJo Camenzuli

Jul 17th 2011, 13:56



Biex ikun raġel,
għandu jirriżenja mill-Kunsill ta' Tas-Sliema.

Imma jħobbu wisq is-siġġu,
għalhekk ma jirriżenjax.

.

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