Updated: Sliema's deputy mayor resigns from the PN, becomes active member of the PL

Mr Carmel (Nenu) Aquilina

Jul 17th 2011, 16:22

L-Immaturita fl-aqwa tagħha, tibqa tfal, ma tikbirx, ma titgħallem qatt, ma tkunx kapaċi taħseb aħjar,bħal min jifraħ għax ċuċ, tkun tried tibqa tissemma, tkun tried tgħamel ħoss, ikun delizju, għax x'tista tkun iżjed?

John Zammit-Spiteri

Jul 17th 2011, 16:25

He Calls the Prime Minister to Resign!! I wonder what he would have done if the Prime Minister did the same!!! mr engerer all he cares for is his personal interests, if he sincerely believes that the PN needs an overhaul ( to which I agree ) I would opt to make a spring clean not a total discard! Mr engerer , I am so sorry but turncoats like you, time proved to us that they only serve their own personal interests, I find you very narcissistic, very sure of yourself, and all this halabaloo over divorce? What are we really gaining from divorce? More taxes to accomodate selfish promiscious unprepared spouses, who dont care a hoot for others who are burdening the social bill? Why should we be the guilty once when we did nothing? why should unmarried citizens who work pay more because they are single? We need to scrutinise our welfare system , and we should not be made to pay for irrisponsible persons.

MaryJo Camenzuli

Jul 17th 2011, 17:36

Prima donna ieħor bħal ħafna politikanti
'moderni', 'liberali' u 'ġodda'.

Qisu player tal-football ma jafx jilgħab f'team
imma jaħseb biss għal rasu ħa jidher hu.
Player bħal dan jasal iż-żmien li jiltaq
għall-ġid tat-team.

.

MaryJo Camenzuli

Jul 16th 2011, 21:58

Cyrus reminds me of Sandro Schembri-Adami.

I voted Labour in 1992 and the party had organised a big brouhaha
about Sandro Schembri Adami crossing to Labour.

I thought Labour would win that first election
Sandro contested with Labour,
but it was not to be.

I wonder what happened to the guy.

.

Maria Borg

Jul 16th 2011, 23:18

That's exactly it, though I don't know if I should laugh or cry!

John Zammit-Spiteri

Jul 17th 2011, 02:48

and he calls the prime minister to resign because he said he is betraying his people, who is betraying? The sliema PN voters voted for him to represent them in the PN now he just told them " what matters is what I feel , now since divorce is legal I am divorcing you to marry my new love the pl !!!!!

the joker of the year!

MaryJo Camenzuli

Jul 16th 2011, 19:05

That's precisely what Labour said about Mintoff in 1998.


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Nathan Young

Jul 16th 2011, 21:25

Anyone 'crossing over' should immediately lose their seat. They were voted in as a member of one party and only another member of that party should replace them.

MaryJo Camenzuli

Jul 16th 2011, 19:16

Some further mathematics for you, Mr Zammit-Spiteri and for Charles Sammut:

When the No to EU got 123,628 in 2003
(in an electorate of 298,000)
Labour said Partnership won
and it never accepted the result,
let alone voted in Parliament in favour of EU membership.

Now that just 122,547 voted Yes for divorce
1,100 FEWER than the Noes to EU,
(in an electorate with 27,000 more voters),
and when the Prime Minister has brought the bill immediately
in front of Parliament
and given a free vote to his MPs who actually exercised that free vote
passing the law by a huge majority of 44 - 13,
Labour still insists the Prime Minister
has to be a hypocrite and vote against his own principles and opinion.

The new Politburo 'liberalism'.

.

Ms Lauren Bianchi

Jul 17th 2011, 08:55

Paragraphs lady not verses.

Joseph Sammut

Jul 16th 2011, 20:59

Alla hares kolla bhalu!!!!!!

Maria Borg

Jul 16th 2011, 23:16

Il-principji tieghu qabel l-interessi personali tieghu?! X differenza hemm bejnietom? Nahseb l-ewwel haga li ghamel hi li haseb fih innifsu. Kif tista teqleb ideologija kompleta ta' partit u tmur ma parti iehor, fuq punt wiehed? U jekk il PL johorgu b'xi haga li ma jaqbilx maghha , x'ha jghamel imur Alternattiva issa?
Jien ghalija issa mux ta min jafdah.

John Zammit-Spiteri

Jul 17th 2011, 02:52

you make me laugh mary borg!!! cyrus is just another young good looking opportunist who thinks he knows it all, I wonder how many labour voters will trust him and vote for him. who knows !!! he might be their next leader, as things are going young is in fashion, out with the old, bring in the nice good looking ones before they wilt and be good for nothing!!!

MaryJo Camenzuli

Jul 17th 2011, 13:12

John Zammit-Spiteri:

are you sure Mary Borg was not commenting tongue-in-cheek?


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Charles Sammut

Jul 16th 2011, 16:12

@ C.Busuttil...
full marks to Cyrus Engerer..Mr.C Cyrus's decision has nothing to do with what happened in 1998!
My dear chappie....the "leader" of GonziPN has voted against the people's will! He called a referendum because he did not have the backbone to take a decision regarding Divorce. The referendum was passed with a majority of 53% ,and now Lawrence has got the cheek and audacity to tell us ,the voters," I dont care what you voted for,I will go against you"!
It is high tme Gonzi does a gogo..and goes away together with his arrogant , greedy mates...the sooner,the better for this island in the sun!
People like you and Gonzi and EFA and Austin and Tonio,have short memories...do you guys remember the referendum for joining the EU??!!

....and the beat goes on.....and the beat goes on........

Mr C Busuttil

Jul 16th 2011, 21:44

@Charles Sammut

It has to do with 1998, Mintoff brought down the gov elected by the people. I don't like the way Gonzi is taking however if Gonzi voted yes or no about divorce it did not make any difference since it passed not like in 1998.

You conveniently avoided to answer about the accomplishments of this chap in the Sliema council.
Is it a crime that some 120000 citizens of this republic are conservatives ? which is why engerer left.
have these people the right of having conservative views ? or just because they are against his they have no rights the usual intolerant liberals not labour
I personally believe the PN should go into opposition not because of the principles of the party but because we need change that after all benefits the whole country. When labour was sent in opposition I never expected them to change their ideals but to get rid of those elements that harmed a party that did a lot of good.

Engerer is no asset for labour because as predicted to my friends he can't be thrusted by the PN because he does not share its views, the same will apply to labour remember until last week he opposed nearly everything they stand for, one day he will do the same thing as yesterday, write it down.

E. Vassallo

Jul 16th 2011, 18:27

Well said. jekk hemm bzonn anki tnejn, tlieta jitilfu elezzjonijiet biex jissahhu.

Mr C Busuttil

Jul 16th 2011, 21:51

We have been there, in the days after the war with hardly any nationalist left and we made a comeback and what a comeback. The soul of the party is more important than personal interests.

Labour will be harmed by these opportunists when they start demanding for abortion and gay marriages with child adoptions included. Just as they harmed the PN with the divorce issue and personal hidden agendas.

Iz-zmien itina parir

Paul Portelli

Jul 17th 2011, 09:32

Mr Fenech il min trid tara jitlaq?
il -min fil partit nazzionalista qed jiftah ajnej lerba tal qalba li kkapparaw kullmhemm u ma huma qedin ihallu il hadd jahdem?dik it-tizbira li trid ?

MaryJo Camenzuli

Jul 17th 2011, 17:39

Paul Portelli:

Naħseb Saviour Fenech irid li jiltaq
lil min mhux kapaċi jara kif itejjeb team li jkun fih
imma jkun primadonna ħsiebu biss
fih innifsu u fl-aġenda personali tiegħu.

In-narċissiżmu u l-aġendi personali qed jeqirdu l-politika Maltija.

.

Mr C Busuttil

Jul 16th 2011, 21:55

A separate person had every right to speak in favour of divorce but engerer of all people ? what does he know about being married and raising children. People like him made me vote no, not because I am against divorce.

MaryJo Camenzuli

Jul 16th 2011, 12:38

What a well-argued point.


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M Attard

Jul 16th 2011, 18:50

well said

Mark Cassar

Jul 16th 2011, 10:18

by your same argument Cyrus wanted to impose his opinion on the prime minister by making him vote yes. the PM ensured the bill passed and that's all that counts.

you say "Is it so difficult for you people to live within a society where people have different beliefs?"... seems like YOU find it difficult for the PM to have different beliefs!

Cyrus Engerer has confirmed he is a political NOBODY and will be used by the PL for political propoganda.. after which he will be discarded! Can you imagine how shocked the people who voted for him are right now?

Joseph Sammut

Jul 16th 2011, 10:21

You are like the kettle calling the pot black, if you understand what I mean. Narrow minded people indeed. May I point out that:
a) Cyrus did what he did yesterday because he could not accept the PM's personal decision on divorce - so much for tollerance towards others' opinion;
b) Cyrus's actions were the result of his insistance to impose his opinion on the PM - now that's crazy!
c) the PM did not ignore anyone - you are wrong or blinded with hate. The PM guranteed a divorce law immediately as soon as the referendum result was known, this although his personal opinion and the PN are not in favour of divorce.
d) although the PN is agains divorce, the PM left everyone to this ideas on parliamentary voting: the same could not be said for Joseph Muscat and the PL - this could be evidenced by the number of Yes votes for each party.
e) during Malta's recent events - Libya, divorce, illegal immigrants, continual doom and gloom by PL, etc. - the PM, if not completely perfect (but then who is?), showed himself to be a strong diplomat and politician and carried himself admireably through these difficult times.

Richard Curmi

Jul 16th 2011, 12:23

C.Debono,
you can start by calling yourself narrow minded then. So you want to have people tolerate one`s opinion and be democratic, and in the same instance you and people like this Cyrus do not want to tolerate our PM his opinion. Now, can you tell me what kind of democracy are you preaching? I cannot say I`m very happy the way our country is being run economically at the moment, however I prefer to have a PM who has his beliefs and sticks to them then one that goes with the wind just to catch votes.

Joseph Sammut

Jul 16th 2011, 10:25

Forsi kien under cover member all this time. Kurjuza kif zewg esponenti fir-referendum nghaqdu mal-PL, wahda ezatt wara r-rizultat to min mar jivvota - mhux tal-poplu - u l-iehor ezatt wara r-rizultat fil-parlament.

adrian attard

Jul 16th 2011, 10:11

Zapatero bis

MaryJo Camenzuli

Jul 16th 2011, 10:59

The problem with Mr Engerer is actually that

- he wants the Prime Minister to resign, and
- at the same time HE REFUSES TO RESIGN HIS OWN SEAT IN THE SLIEMA LOCAL COUNCIL
which he got simply by virtue of being a Nationalist candidate.

Mr Engerer would gain more admiration if he acted as he wants others to do.

.

Ms Anna Callus

Jul 16th 2011, 08:18

I am starting to wonder whether there is a single democrat on this island. Either that, or issues are being mixed up and everybody is getting tangled in this whole maze which I put down to something intrinsically wrong with our legislation.
1. The PM had every right to vote according to his principles. To have done otherwise would have made a mockery of the principle of freedom of expression.
2. Cyrus Engerer has every right to switch allegiances. Those who state otherwise are making a mockery of the principle of freedom of association. To accuse Mr. Engerer of lacking values and being shallow is to make a mockery of history. Winston Churchill, widely considered as one of Britan's greatest ever statesemen, crossed the floor twice during his career. And he held cabinet offices with both sides.
3. The quandary in which our parliamentarians found themselves now is avoidable in the future - amending the law to allow for direct democracy and make the results of referenda binding, and, therefore, automatically translated into law.

I find myself admiring both gentlemen for different reasons - my only reservation being the way Cyrus handled the issue - I guess that is to be put down to the enthusiasm and impetuosity of youth.

Mr anna maria xuereb

Jul 16th 2011, 00:56

I usually vote Labour......yeah right!!!!!! lil min trid tbellaha din?

I doubt I would want to keep voting Labour.......with your kind of mentality on everything please feel free to switch parties.

Andy Farrugia

Jul 16th 2011, 01:14

Do you really think that Mr Engerer is going to heed your words; he's very busy making calculations about his future. This is the kind of politician of the new age. We have to get used to them or unmask them.

mark borg

Jul 16th 2011, 09:36

I usually vote Labour ...... bla bla bla - I bet even the name you are using is bogus ! Anyway thank heaven you will not be voting with the grand majority as the PL does not need fundamentalists, as this is not the infamous 60's.

Mr Rodnick Abdilla

Jul 16th 2011, 10:04

hahaahh Hsibtom Boloh in nies ?

MaryJo Camenzuli

Jul 16th 2011, 11:07

To Labour bloggers here:

Yes, I usally vote Labour.
I voted Nationalist only twice:
in 1987 to get rid of the anti-democratic illiberal Mintoff/KMB
regime we had between 1981 and 1987,
and in 2003 to join the European Union
(and a Yes in the EU referendum).

I have already made it very clear that I voted No to divorce
and I feel that the minority of 47% I am part of
like 22,000 Labourites should be represented in Parliament.

On this issue that touches the fundamental freedoms
of expression, free voting and minoruity representation,
I find I agree more with the Prime Minister
than with Joseph Muscat.

I can see Lawrence Gonzi as the democrat he is
bringing the law forthwith to Parliament
and giving a free vote
so divorce has actually passed by a huge majority in Parliament
while at the same time
personally remaining true to his principles.

As a usual Labour voter, I can say that
Lawrence Gonzi is a man of honesty and integrity.

.

Paul Portelli

Jul 17th 2011, 09:40

ehe ragel DR gonzi?
saqsi in nies li qed jghixu bil paga minima,saqsi il min ihallas il kontijieet tad-dawl u l-ilma,saqsi lin nies kemm oliet il hajja,saqsi lil min juza transport publiku--------- ma hemx alfejn inkompli waqatlek il maskla

John Zammit-Spiteri

Jul 15th 2011, 22:53

i am jealous at your comment , I wish It was me who said it. very true how can this person who was so strong in his beliefs within the PN suddenly gets dissillusioned at his Leader? and over Divorce? and now an active member? this is surely the joke(r) of the year.

but now lets face it , I dont wish to be in his shoes, once his looks fade and we cease to be the nice good looking boy in town , then we have to face the reality of the boot. That is what happens. Politics are about values policies decision making and building our society into a healthy society. Politicians should serve us not vice versa.

Andy Farrugia

Jul 16th 2011, 00:49

"And, how come he is already an "active member of the PL"?" Ask Nikita Alamango or Stand Up.

John Zammit-Spiteri

Jul 15th 2011, 21:22

well said prosit

K Farrugia

Jul 15th 2011, 22:52

@ K. Vella

I totally agree with your comments! Prosit!

Mr Kevin Sciberras

Jul 15th 2011, 22:07

I don't see you telling Austin Gatt to step down in regards to the Arriva Fiasco yet you bark everyday about it in this newspaper

Roberta Sciberras

Jul 15th 2011, 20:49

How about directing that quote at Dr Lawrence Gonzi? As Prime Minister he is in duty bound to respect the will of the majority. No one took away Dr Gonzi's right to express his opinion as an individual. He did so several times and as an individual he also expressed his opinion like everyone else when he voted in the referendum.

But as the Prime Minister who proposed the referendum so the people could express themselves he then had an obligation to respect that will freely and fairly expressed.

So what exactly did the PN parliamentary group do to make sure the vote would pass in parliament - draw lots? It seems they did since they came out with a vote that was mathematically split in three... just to please everyone!!

What a joke of a party!

Elaine Compagno

Jul 15th 2011, 20:51

Dr Gonzi, as a human being, got his right to vote according to his opinion in the referendum.

As our prime minister, he should not have been representing his own opinion, but that of the people.

So many of you are missing this little detail. What is Dr Gonzi more than any other person to choose whether or not we should have divorce laws? He is nothing special - just another human being, someone we employ to run the country, because we trusted he would make decisions on our behalf. This time the people chose. There was no room for error or misjudgement. But he, some of his friends - and others like you - seem to think that he is more equal than others and gets to 'vote according to his opinion'.... TWICE!

MaryJo Camenzuli

Jul 15th 2011, 21:17

Ms Sciberras and Compagno,

Parliament has passed the divorce law
by 44 to 13 if I'm not mistaken.

Lawrence Gonzi as an MP had every right to vote
according to his principles and opinion
just like everybody else.

Joseph Muscat even declared that
Adrian Vassallo and ML Coleiro Preca
were free to vote as they wished.

So everybody had a free vote
(all MPs, Labour and Nationalist)
except the PM!

.

Mr Tommy Vella

Jul 15th 2011, 21:36

@Elaine Compagno

"He is nothing special - just another human being, someone we employ to run the country" and like the others we employ to run the country he availed himself of the free vote given on both sides of the house on this issue.

J Dalli

Jul 15th 2011, 22:55

Voltaire wasn't Catholic.

He spoke from a secular, rather than Christian, perspective and that's why he was open to other people's opinions.

Because he had a spiritual - and I do not mean religious - side, he could see that denying freedom of speech is a crime against human intelligence and dignity. An immeasurable waste of all sorts of human potential.

He didn't have a god to be scared of or a religious institution to please. He didn't feel it his moral duty - far from it - to impose his personal faith on his fellow countrymen, against their clearly defined will.

Do you see now the difference between our PM and Voltaire?

Our PM is the sort of person that Voltaire would have had for a political enemy, because all he's doing is ignoring our vote for the sake of his personal belief and the interest of the Church, his number one ally.

And no, he can't do that. We're the clients here. If he can't provide the proper service then he needs to go.

MaryJo Camenzuli

Jul 16th 2011, 11:12

J Dalli:

Voltaire was a true secular liberal
who could live with all kinds of opinion
including the opinions of religious people.
He fought for freedom of expression
and the freedom to vote according to one's opinion.

In this issue, Voltaire would certainly NOT
have had Lawrence Gonzi as an enemy
but others like Cyrus Engerer who
want to dictate to others how to vote.

.

Ken Cowan

Jul 16th 2011, 10:32

One thing I have never quite been able to understand is this insistence on "Christian values"... as if Jews, Muslims, Buddhists and atheists have none themselves?
More to the point, when you see how the Vatican put the interests of its IMAGE ahead of the protection of children from its own priests, well, where do you see ANY "values", Christian or otherwise here? When one knows for a fact that the Church has been telling Africans that condoms are too porous to stop the AIDS virus and should therefore not be used - such LIES border on the criminal, as they help to spread infection and death, and who is going to trust the priests to look after the three million orphans whose parents died from AIDS while the Church was playing politics?
"Christian values" in such modern situations has become a contradiction in terms! What we need in fact is to be SAVED from such "Christian values", because the Church lost its way a long time ago. Jesus said "Render unto Caesar that which is Caesar's". He specifically meant that the Church should be concentrating on spiritual matters and NOT involving itself in politics. Christ himself would be astounded at the political games the Church plays with such insouciance. Enough is enough!
"Christian values"? What hypocrisy!

MaryJo Camenzuli

Jul 16th 2011, 11:31

So according to you, Mr Cowan,
all people of faith or no faith
have values
except Christians!


.

Ken Cowan

Jul 16th 2011, 14:30

Reply to MaryJo Camenzuli:
Stop playing word games; EVERYONE has values... putting the word "Christian" before the word without clarifying exactly what you mean is hedging. What values, pray tell, are so different in Christian belief from anyone else? Everyone basically supports honesty, charity, decency and kindness; most people support the IDEA of family, although just what constitutes a family is still being expanded ( try and explain to me how gay parents with an adopted kid are NOT family...). The only thing that I can think of as "Christian" when placed before the word "values" is, therefore dogma and cant: no sex before marriage; no sex at all if you are gay; no divorce, even if your life is hell - as if a mistake of youth MUST be atoned for forever; no condoms, even to protect a wife or husband newly married from an HIV+ partner... and all of this coming from ONE Church, the Catholic one, whereas many other churches are ALSO "Christian", but THEIR "values" are not the ones trying to be upheld here by those who keep spouting the phrase in government. So what we ARE dealing with here IS the Catholic Church, whose hypocrisies concerning abused children and lies which spread death and disease in Africa ARE NOT the kind of values ANYONE would condone, no matter WHAT their religion.
So, Ms Camenzuli, please stop playing games here and be a little more enlightening (or perhaps enlightened?) in your comments.

MaryJo Camenzuli

Jul 16th 2011, 21:27

Mr Cowan,

It's even worse than I thought.

According to you,
everyone in the world has values,
except the Catholic Church.


.

Janice Ancilleri

Jul 15th 2011, 21:58

Ehe ovvja .. kull min ma jaqbilx mad-decizzjoni tal-poplu, jew ahjar kull min ha jivvota kontra d-divorzju fil-prlament, m'ghandux ghalfejn jibqa' hemm ghax suppost hu qieghed hemm biex jirrapprezenta lill-poplu u mhux lilu nnifsu. Kemm jekk hu PN u kemm jekk hu PL, ghandu jirrezenja minnufih! M'ghandniex x'nambu nies fil-parlament li jridu kollox kif ihossu huma, u mhux kif irid il-poplu.

Daqstant iehor kieku d-divorzju m;ghaddiex mir-referendum. Kont nippretendi li dawk li jaqblu mieghu ukoll jivvutaw kontrih, ghax huma qieghdin hemm biex jaqdu lill-poplu. Inkella ghalxejn qieghdin hemm, hlief biex isahhnu s-siggu u jidhru sbieh huma biss ma' min jaqbel maghohm!

Andy Farrugia

Jul 16th 2011, 01:17

Min hu l-poplu sinjura Ancilleri?

MaryJo Camenzuli

Jul 16th 2011, 11:16

Janice Ancilleri:

Joseph Muscat disagrees with you.

He keeps saying:
"Nibqa' niġġieled favur id-divorzju
anke jekk inkun waħdi."

He also said that the referendum result
would only count for these two years.

He has also said in Parliament
that Marie Louise Coleiro Preca
and Adrian Vassallo were free to vote as they wished.

If Adrian Vassallo and ML Coleiro-Preca
had a free vote, so had the Prime Minister.

.

Ms G Schembri

Jul 15th 2011, 20:45

The 80s is 30 years away. Let me assure you that in the 80s the PN gave as much as it received. It was the PN who started all the trouble, the trouble with MLP is that they are not descreet whilst the PN never admitted to their wrong doing. Now we know what happened at Zebbug, because the culprits stopped getting their way in everything spilled the beans. I wonder how many more secrets we will learn in the future.

Mrs C Zammit

Jul 16th 2011, 17:17

Were you blindfolded in those days?

MaryJo Camenzuli

Jul 15th 2011, 21:28

Iħobbu s-siġġu Cyrus.

Irid lill-Prim Ministru jirriżenja,
imma hu ma jridx jirriżenja minn Kunsillier.

Naturalment, issa dalwaqt jilħaq Sindku wkoll
għax ikollu l-apoġġ ta' sitta minn ħdax.

Iħobbu s-siġġu Cyrus.

.

MaryJo Camenzuli

Jul 15th 2011, 20:50

Dictator Benito Mussolini used to hold referenda
in which there was only ONE answer the voter could hoose: Yes.
You could not disagree wtih Mussolini.

That's what Cyrus Engerer wants to do:
dictate to all MPs, including the Prime Minister, how to vote,
despite knowing that only 19% of MPs voted No,
substantially fewer than the 47% in the referendum.

.

Roberta Sciberras

Jul 15th 2011, 20:53

Well, apparently Dr Michael Gonzi does not hold that view. He does consider voting in parliament against the will of the majority the act of a dictator.

And could you please refer me to the time and place when and where Dr Joseph Muscat threatened Dr Adrian Vassallo? I would be most obliged.

MaryJo Camenzuli

Jul 15th 2011, 20:54

We heard this before.

I usually vote Labour and did so in 2008
when we were 'certain' of victory with a huge majority.
Many even went out to celebrate...

I voted No in the referendum in May
and I am seeing the Prime Minister in his true light,
that of a man of principle and integrity.


.

Mr Joe Micallef

Jul 15th 2011, 19:39

For once Muscat is sticking to the only principle he knows. The end justifies the means!

Mr C Busuttil

Jul 15th 2011, 19:27

I agree 100%

Labour should be careful with this chap he has a history

Lina Ghirxi

Jul 15th 2011, 23:00

Nerga' ntenni: EVVIVA R-REGIME!!!!!!

Andy Farrugia

Jul 16th 2011, 00:53

Out with it - are you afraid of being accused of political INcorrectness? He is after gay marriage; that's his agenda. Why do people have to be so careful about what is so obviously clear?

J Zammit

Jul 16th 2011, 16:51

And about time someone is. You think this new generation will settle for the condescending 'love the sinner forgive the sin' hobgosh ? They want what you have, and they have every right to it.

Lino Fava

Jul 16th 2011, 09:02

Toqghodx tivvinta . Meta il-labour kien fil-gvern ghamel hafna gid u inthom ivvintajtu kull haga biex twaqqghu. Bombi wara djar tan-nies, li kellhom sentimenti laburista bojkott socjali ma min ma jaqbilx maghkom, hloqtu Union biex tifirdu il-haddiema. Illum kissirtu l' istess Independenza ghax ma hallejtu xejn f'idejn il-Maltin tant kemm kellkhom fiducja fil-poplu Malti. Ghax il-Maltin cwiec u vera biex hallew lillkhom tiggvernaw ghal dawn 23 sena. Inthom le ma intomx cwiec, intom il-krema ta Malta ma tarax li mix-xejn toholqu 500 Ewro zieda ghal min ma ghandux kontroll fuq il-ilsienu. Qallilna biex noqghodu fuq l-agir tieghu billi nircievu kontijiet esegerati, joholquna vroma fil-karozzi tal-linja, ikissru kull azjenda maltija u jrid il-grazzi.

Carmen Portelli

Jul 15th 2011, 19:00

You should be ashamed of such unsubstantiated comments Mr. Camilleri

Roberta Sciberras

Jul 15th 2011, 19:03

Ghaliex iktar nadif Sur Camilleri? ..... forsi ghax is-Sur Engerer jistqarr li hu gay? ghalhekk forsi?

j brincat

Jul 15th 2011, 19:37

@Lawrence Camilleri

Do you by any chance call this tolerance?

(jb)

Andre Grech

Jul 15th 2011, 20:00

Can I join you cyrus. I too was a die hard nationalist. Now the PN disgusts me. Gonzi ruined the party. I am with you. Call me on 79000090. We will work to put the pn rubbish in opposition.

Anthony Grech

Jul 15th 2011, 19:02

Stella int qed tghid li min kien ivvota Labour u wara ivvota Nazzjonalist hu bla principju? Proset u grazzi.Ta l-anqas ammettejt li l-PN tilef ir-Ruh u forsi ghad jibda jiehu ruhu lura xi darba.

Keith Goodlip

Jul 15th 2011, 19:23

Ha nara fhimtekx sewwa.....
Jigifieri inti qed tghid u tikkonferma li fil Partit Nazzjonlista hemm nies opportunisti, egoisti, u bla principji

Prosit

Ejja forsi fl'ahhar jifthu ghajnejhom xi erba Malttin ukoll

joe Tanti

Jul 15th 2011, 18:26

kemm ha dum tghix fil holm sur Galea. iftah ghajnejk u ara x inhu jigriu madwarek. tibqas skadut

Mr C Busuttil

Jul 15th 2011, 19:26

@Joe Tanti

jigifiri jekk jien kontra l-abort jien skadut ? ghax filkaz kburi li skadut u mhux kriminal li noqtol kreatura innocenti ghax mhux kapaci nerfa ir-responsabilta ta' dak li naghmel.

Hallina tridx

Joseph Sammut

Jul 15th 2011, 19:36

@ Joe Tanti: bil moghod Joe. Min fejn tkun qed thares, facli tghajjar lil haddiehor skadut. Hadd iehor ukol qed ihares lejk. Hemm ukoll min hu skadut qabel ma jibda, min kollox hawn jigru mas-saqajn.

Mrs C Zammit

Jul 15th 2011, 19:40

Why? what's happening around us Mr Tanti?

Mark Cassar

Jul 15th 2011, 20:06

the ranks of labour that consist of people like Anglu Farrugia, Toni Abela and Alfred Sant you mean? if you think we're living in misery take a look around the world and you'll see we're much better off then many other countries!! if to you this is burning... let it burn! Thank you Dr Gonzi

Mr twanny borg

Jul 15th 2011, 18:02

hallina! gonzi ta' principju u l-iehor le. gonzi qed jirraprezenta l-partit li qal le u l-ehor issa qed jirraprezenta l-pn imma mar in-naha l-ohra b'disrispett ghal min ivvutau.

Mr Anthony Briffa

Jul 15th 2011, 18:56

I agree with you 100% that when a politician finds a conflict of interest in what he believes and what his party stands for, he/she takes the honourable step of resigning.

However, Cyrus Engerte's resignation has been followed immediately by switching of his allegiance and being accepted by the leader of the opposite party as an active member. There is nothing honourable with Cyrus Engerer at this point. The haste in which matters have developed clearly shows that he has been working at this move since quite a time.

I look forward to other active politicians who are using the PN and its voters to follow Cyrus, in order that the PN can be cleaned out and be prepared with a strong loyal team for the next election.

The electorate in the next election, before casting the vote, should look around and see what is the state of Malta's finances, level of employment, especially amongst our youth and particularly amongst graduates, the standard of our free medical service, social assitance, education, all round improvement in our infrastructure, etc. These are the issues that should decide an election and not whether the PM, as an MP voted yes or no in the divorce issue.

Cyrus went to a party, which so far has offered us nothing in these areas. He is welcome in a party that is wasting its time to distract the attention of the electorate on secondary issues, which will not generate wealth and employment. The statements by Dr. Muscat that he will unveil all his plans just before the election does not hold. Fortunately that section of the Maltese electorate that elects a government does not switch its vote overnight like Cyrus did with his party allegiance.

MaryJo Camenzuli

Jul 15th 2011, 20:28

Wrong, Mr Borg.

Cyrus Engerer did not resign from the Sliema local council.

.

Mr twanny borg

Jul 15th 2011, 17:52

ma nemminx li qed tghid ghas-semplici raguni illi kieku veru kont tghix fi zminijiet koroh tal-pl kieku qatt ma titkellem hekk. Allahares kieku qatt nergu naslu f'dawk iz-zmienijiet! veru mhux kollox rubini imma meta tara pajjizi ohra bi problemi kbar ahna mixjin tajjeb. ma hawn xejn perfett u jekk hawn xi hadd jahseb li bil-pl immorru ahjar sejjer zball.

John Pace

Jul 15th 2011, 17:48

please add.......and as long as they vote PL! ...... at the end of your statement

godwin difesa

Jul 15th 2011, 18:31

I Thing only PL is piking all those who are liberal.But if they will win the next election it will be a different story take my word .The doors are open now hope they will leave them after if they will win.

Mr Eric Camilleri

Jul 15th 2011, 17:50

Dear Lorraine,

Did you forget when Fenech Adami used to have spokesman from the Labour side before the EU referendum. You remember what happened?? The Labour Party got one of his worse defeats ever!!


I think that is what's going to happen with the PN in the next election. But this time the PN will be the defeated party

Marc Cassar

Jul 15th 2011, 18:51

Dear Lorraine,

Unfortunately, our Prime Minister, and all those who voted against the Bill, have betrayed ALL the Maltese People.

Everybody in Parliament needs to remember that they are sitting there to represent the People of this Country, and not personal agendas. If this simple corner-stone of democracy was to be followed, this country would be a much better place for all.

All elected Members of Parliament have been put there:
- by the People,
- to act for the People and,
- to carry out the People's Wishes,
- for as long as the People want them!!!

The Maltese population cast their choice on Divorce in the referendum. The outcome - like it or not, is what it is. All politicians must abide by that decision. Personal beliefs cannot factor into the equation now. Ministers, like every other Maltese, had the chance to vote during the referendum.

What Mr. Engerer did may be a "little-over-the-top" - but at least he stood up for what he believes in - good on him.

PS - I voted against Divorce - but I accept the result as a democratic member of the Maltese population

MaryJo Camenzuli

Jul 15th 2011, 20:32

Marc Cassar,

If you truly voted against divorce,
Gonzi was representing YOU in Parliament
as a member of the minority.

The people are not one,
as you seem to believe.

122,547 people voted Yes,
107,971 people voted No,
and you say you were one of them.

You deserve representation in Parliament
just as much as the remaining
107,970 people who voted No,
including myself.

.

Andy Farrugia

Jul 15th 2011, 18:07

Salvatur iehor, dan Johnnie Cash? Tidher li ammiratur tieghu!

Mr V Mercieca

Jul 15th 2011, 17:19

jekk dawk li jaghfu xhemm fil-borma qalbu - mela xhemm fil-borma tal-PN?

Mr J Xerri

Jul 15th 2011, 17:29

... of course you want new elections for the Sliema Council... you are dreading the possibility of having a Labour led Council!! Is the Government going to oblige Mr Vassallo's request?

James Dalli

Jul 15th 2011, 17:37

Its called having principles. Get some.

Mr Pat Hobson

Jul 15th 2011, 18:07

Looks like the PN is leaking and springing new holes. While mp's are already stating that they won't be contesting the coming General Elections (Deguara, Mugliett and Gatt), others are making waves which are rocking the PN boat in all directions. And to add insult to injury, besides PN members are leaving the party, even prospective Nationalist candidates are leaving the PN stables. Dr. Deborah Schembri, Cyrus Engerer. I wonder who's next. Only time will tell.

Ms Lynn Zahra

Jul 15th 2011, 17:20

apologies, that comment as do a number of others that follwow it came from my computer.
Joe Grima

Mr C Busuttil

Jul 15th 2011, 17:37

CWIEC il-PL ghax dan ma tistax tafdah. U jekk tahseb lil partitarji laburisti ha jafdawh sejra aktar hazin ghax mid-dehra int maqtugha mir-realta tal-partitarji wahda u sew.

Mela dan tista tafdah wara dak kollu li ghamel lil siehbu stess ta' l-istess partit imbasta jilhaq vici sindku ? wara li hareg ghall-elezzjoni u qatt ma kien qal li huwa gay ? inganna l-elettorat ghax is-slimizi li kwazi 75% minnhom over 65 sew huma konservattivi hafna u zgur ma kienux jivvutawlu qatt ?
Issa Alla j'bierek sar laburist u mhux hekk nibqaw meta sa jumejn ilu jiridikola lil laburisti kien.
Il-vuci liberali tal-PN jew il-vuci opportunista trid tghid. Li ghamel mall-pn jaghmlu mall-labour wait and see

Rocco Camilleri

Jul 15th 2011, 17:48

@ Ms.Lynn Zahra.
Well said Ms.Zahra this Government does not believe in Maltese people, but in foreigners,because most of Malta's run businesses are given to them with the detriment that a lot of the countries money profits are being given away to other countries. The Maltese people always excelled when given the chance and support them This could be seen from the excellent pilots and other areas of proffession which Malta was never given the chance to have before.

Mr M Borg

Jul 15th 2011, 18:10

" People who love their country and who want to see it changed for the better . "

I am not sure, so i'll ask you, did you really men the above ??

People who love their country and who want to see it changed to the better.!

Do you really think that divorce, gay mariages, abortion and euthanasia ( these will follow ) will make Malta a better place ?? Is this the future you want to give to our children ?

We are much better off as " Maltese cwiec ".

Mark Cassar

Jul 15th 2011, 19:52

kemm int bravu! b'dan lispeech ahjar lahqu lilek prim ministru!

MaryJo Camenzuli

Jul 16th 2011, 17:13

The PL is now home for the extreme right and extreme libertarians.

This can work as long as you have the luxury of opposition.


.

MaryJo Camenzuli

Jul 16th 2011, 17:20

Joe Grima/(Lynn Zahra):

Coming from you,
a Minister at the time of the the anti-democratic illilberal regime of Mintoff and KMB 1981 - 1987 is truly rich!

You say: "all-inclusive", "modern, fresh, tolerant", "friendly" -
you were certainly not referring to the time when you were a Minister
when so many people of Labour roots had to vote Nationalist to get rid of people like you.

.

Lina Ghirxi

Jul 15th 2011, 23:11

The difference with Eu referendum results was that the PL respected the choice of the people, with the Divorce referendum results the PM didn't given a hoot what the majority of the Maltese people wanted and voted for!!! Plain and simple!!

Mr Victor Calleja

Jul 15th 2011, 17:17

Qares l-gheneb.

Mr Emanuel Curmi

Jul 15th 2011, 17:43

@Mr George Portelli
What wud you rather have, somebody to represent your interest or a parliamentarian with a muzzle. The last few months has made it increasingly clear how the deals with those stepping out of line. Hope you are having a good laugh especially since it is at your own expense.

carmel muscat

Jul 15th 2011, 17:49

naqbel mijjek perfettament

MaryJo Camenzuli

Jul 15th 2011, 19:36

Now it will be better
once Cyrus Engerer becomes mayor.


.

Ms Rudi Mcbeal

Jul 15th 2011, 18:37

@ P Gauci
Who says that all and sundry believe in and want liberalism? When was the PN ever a liberal party? In my books depraved societies are the result of excessive liberalism - excessive liberalism should be feared.

Mr J Busuttil

Jul 15th 2011, 17:23

I take it that if he contests the next general election under the PL ticket on your district you will be giving him your vote from one to five. U hallina he is just going to be used by the PL for propaganda then thrown away. Wait and see.

Ms Lynn Zahra

Jul 15th 2011, 17:35

You obviously know nothing about Spansh politics. Zapatero inherited a disastrous financial sitiuatin from his right wing, conservative, spendthrift and corrupt predecessors. It will be the same after the next election. Joppeh Muscat will have to face a disaster when he is elected Prime Minister in less than two years from now. History reperats itself. It was the same for Dom Mintoff in 1971. Before they were thrown out of office, the PN had presented a fucticious budget , worthy oif a n Alfred Sant new thriller.

Mr J Busuttil

Jul 15th 2011, 17:52

Lynn and I am stupid enough to believe him when he says that he will give us back the registration tax together with back to the past water and electricity rates etc etc. I hope that most of the viewers will read your comment and note it when the election arrives. Thanks Lynn.

Ms G Schembri

Jul 15th 2011, 20:13

@ Mr J Busutil - As in the past PL is the only solution to Malta. The PN administrations have spent all the money we had, sold all our assets and borrowed Millions of euro. If all that worries you is the tax you paid on your car, then you can vote for whoever you want, but if you really love your country and want a sound future for your children you cannot vote for anyone but the PL.

Mr J Busuttil

Jul 15th 2011, 23:40

Ye you right G.Schembri " I vote PL" not when I remember what I went through with my family during the dark days of the MLP regime . At least you should have answered if the PL will be keeping his promises or are you already loosing faith in your own party.

Andy Farrugia

Jul 16th 2011, 01:24

@ Ms Lynn Zahra

It is obvious that YOU know nothing about Spanish politics; Zapatero inherited a healthy economy from Aznar; in fact, he only came to power as a result of a badly handled terrorist attack in Madrid. The days when you could dupe people are long past.

Mr J Busuttil

Jul 15th 2011, 17:25

Ray that is why the newspaper starts selling when the Sunday Times has been sold out.

Mr Anthony Briffa

Jul 15th 2011, 17:54

People like Cyrus Engerer are people without principle and always find out when it is too late. Can anyone believe that Cyrus Engerer turned red overnight? Cyrus why don't you come out clean with the whole truth and
tell us for how long you have been in love with the PL.

It is extremely strange that somebody can switch loyalty from one party to another overnight and he is welcome staightaway by his new leader. The comment by Ms Lynn Zahra gives him away.

It looks like Cyrus has now found his proper place, following a leader for whom everything and all is a means to an end.

Michel Bencini

Jul 15th 2011, 17:18

'Liberals' have no values? Hmmmmmm. Please be advised that a multitude of Nationalists who happen to be 'liberal' in their views are people of value and they do have values. Please do not elevate yourself to 'thank God' for the actions of man either. You do not have monopoly of interpretation over the mind of the Creator. Mr.C. Busuttil, go and study your history. The PN had part of its foundations in the Liberal movement. Many Maltese in the 1880s voted for Liberal candidates, the very same people who formed the PN.........and this is over a century ago. Many countries in the modern world have had and do have Liberal governments too. Are they all Satanic crap? Please ! Think before you write. Our youth needs to be educated not misinformed.

Mr C Busuttil

Jul 15th 2011, 18:00

@Michel Bencini

the multitude of nationalist liberals ? don't make me laugh you can't be a nationalist and a liberal. Either you believe in christian values or you have no place in the PN. Its a matter of values and principles.

The Pn could have been liberal in 1880 and it was natural at the time for a new party but today's party is built on that party. I belong to a family that never left the PN even when nearly everyone left the party in WWII because principles and values never change. Therefore refrain from telling me about education or misinformation as I don't change principles to just to accomodate those without any values.
Liberals stand for abortion the greatest crime a human being can do against the most defenceless being and they try to make pass as a freedom. Liberals are in favour of gays adopting children depriving a child from a mother and father imbasta nirbhu l-voti tal-gays.
LE ghall-opportunisti li ma' l-ewwel cans jeqilbuha anke lilhom stess ghaxla principji. Ahjar fl-oppozzizjoni milli b'nies bla principji. Fuq kollox wara l-gwerra l-partit kien spicca u llum jinsab fil-gvern ghax zamm mall-principji

Ms G Schembri

Jul 15th 2011, 20:36

In the past the liberal way of thinking that the PL enjoy created the vote for women, equal pay, minimum wage, children's allowance, national pensions, free health care, subsidised housing, marriage leave, maternity leave, these were all created under the so called dictator Duminku Mintoff.

Christian Ellul

Jul 15th 2011, 17:00

PN is not in a conflict with Liberals, although this is the image many people are trying to portray in order to attempt to cause maximum damage to PN, having said that, this is the 'new' anti-PN strategy being projected with pomp by PL and Joseph Muscat. Regarding getting rid of Liberals, i cannot agree with you as PN is a mixture of centre and right, splitting the party is Labour's remit not PN's (as can be seen historically).

Alfred Mercieca De Bono

Jul 15th 2011, 17:05

If permitted, please let me quote Times of Malta - September 15,2010: where Mr Engerer saidthat he was "proud to belong to a party that accepts diversity"....

".......Mr Engerer believes there are “other” reasons behind the motion, although he has not spelled them out. A Facebook group has been set up mocking Mr Engerer for his homosexuality.

When contacted, Mr Engerer said the group highlighted the level of intolerance in Malta, showing the need for more to be done in terms of gay rights.

“Seeing all this, I am proud to belong to a party that accepts diversity and does not discriminate when it comes to its membership and candidacy in elections on the basis of sexual orientation,” he said. He said the motion against him showed Labour to be an “opportunistic” party only paying lip service to issues such as youth involvement and tolerance towards diversity...."

Who will believe you, Mr Engerer?

Mr Lawrence Fenech

Jul 15th 2011, 16:50

@Cuschieri.

Gonzi mea colpa.

Mark Galea

Jul 15th 2011, 17:13

Very well said! You couldn't have worded your post better.

A Cuschieri

Jul 15th 2011, 17:38

@ Mr Lawrence Fenech

I have no regrets ...

C Muscat

Jul 15th 2011, 16:32

Hafna bhali, mhux jien, jivvotaw minghajr kliem. Il-Pn akkwista hafna voti fis-skiet u kif rebah bla mistenni hekk ser jerga jaghmel.

Mario Camilleri

Jul 15th 2011, 17:08

veru!! Alla jbierek kullhadd sar ex PN.....

Ms Lynn Zahra

Jul 15th 2011, 17:11

Dawk ilhom li ghosfru. Jekk kont issegwi INKONTRI fuq One kont tara ghexieren kull gimgha jiffirmaw ex PN u jikkritikaw il partit li qabel kien taghhom.

Adrian Cachia

Jul 15th 2011, 16:29

One that brought down a Sliema PN Mayor ......

Mr Victor Calleja

Jul 15th 2011, 17:11

He is a human being like yourself Mr. Cachia. If I may ask .....who is Etienne Cachia????? Paroli fil vojt. Ghandu kull dritt li ghamel dak li hass fic cirkostanzi. Jekk il pn se jibqa marbut fil passat u ma jharis lejn il futur allura se jkun partit ta certu qassisin,ta certu patrijiet, ta cert tal muzew etc. etc.

Ms Lynn Zahra

Jul 15th 2011, 17:17

Mr Engerer's resignationa shows nothing more and niothing less than the despicable depths to which the PN has sunk and the spread of the whiff of fresh air which repeatedly shows that the Maltese are no longer ready to grin and bear it. We have all had enough for one reason or another and its showsThe PN id a divided party, a divided government and it is splitting at the seams.Had Gonzi';s politics been the ones that he priofessed they wpoudl be when he was first ekected he woudl ahve residfned long ago. Instead he prefers to hang on to his seat for dear life.

Mr Albert Dimech

Jul 15th 2011, 16:31

By leaving the PN and joining the PL, Cyrus has shown which party is truly liberal. What do you know about the PL, have you ever been involved internally. Ask someone like Mario Farrugia Borg, ex-PN councillor and now PL member, he will illuminate you. It is the country that needs a breathe of fresh air, the PN needs a complete reconstruction.

anton cassar

Jul 15th 2011, 16:37

New blood my friend...thats all it takes to change a direction of a party & by the looks of it thats what s happening in the PL.......

Andy Farrugia

Jul 15th 2011, 16:40

"Is it not perhaps time to create a liberal party" ? No need to set one up, there is one already and it's called Alpha Liberal party.

Mr Lawrence Fenech

Jul 15th 2011, 16:52

@Gatt.

PN is now fighting a losing game.

Adrian Cachia

Jul 15th 2011, 16:31

Looks like the PN will have to replace half of it's party then....

Kurt Mifsud

Jul 15th 2011, 16:46

Valuri Kristjani u tal-Familja??? Int bis-serjeta? Jigifieri skond int bid-divorzju li qed jilghabuha tal-qaddisin bih tal-PN jitkissru l-familji? Mhux ghax ezempju ir-ragel u l-mara bilkemm jiltaqghu ghax iridu jigru minn xoghol ghal iehor ghax ma jistghux ilahhqu mal-pizijiet tal-hajja sakemm fl-istess hin shabek qed igawdu 500eur fil-gimgha zieda u 5k fis-sena zieda fil-beneficcji?

Prosit Pierre, inkompli nikkonferma ghalfejn m'ghandix naghti l-vot lil PN - ghax mhux ipokrita!

Mr Victor Calleja

Jul 15th 2011, 17:14

Well said. Keep on this track till the next election please.

Mr Peter Korsten

Jul 15th 2011, 17:18

I'd rather have people sell their own soul, than waste my taxes.

Julian Tonna

Jul 15th 2011, 16:29

you still think that the p.n governing good? we be beter without a goverment then with the pn

Mr Lawrence Fenech

Jul 15th 2011, 16:54

@Scerri.

Politics are like a poker game, nowbody shows his hand before the game is over.

Mr Victor Calleja

Jul 15th 2011, 17:15

Li skuza tas soltu. Meta se titghallmu?

James Scerri

Jul 16th 2011, 13:38

@tonna : the answer is no! But I'd rather wait a bit more with a much better PL in governance!
@Fenech : you may be right! But, if it were for me I would 'hallieh ha jhawwad u meta nitla nitkellem!'..that's my point!
@Calleja : I don't need to learn...I'm not voting PN full stop!...the others need to learn..Cyrus did...and look how many negative responses (sometimes personal) he's got...is this freedom of expression!?

Mr Lawrence Fenech

Jul 15th 2011, 16:55

@Cilia.

Well and decently put.

john muscat

Jul 15th 2011, 17:20

You never said that before!Why good riddance? Is that how the PN should talk? Dr. Gonzi should see that he keeps his flock, but it seems that he is totally out of control in everything and we are becoming a banana republic with the national debt soaring to unlimited heights,but our future generation will get the brunt.

Ms Rudi Mcbeal

Jul 15th 2011, 18:27

@ John Muscat

Why? Opportunists and politicians who have their own personal agendas should have no place in the NP. If the PL want to accept any one and anything, it is entirely up to them. I for one would NEVER vote for such a party. A party who sticks to it's principles (and many others) wins my vote. ALWAYS.

Re national debt: Judging by your comment I take it you do not have the faintest idea of what happens in other countries.

Adrian Cachia

Jul 15th 2011, 16:39

Dr Bezzina,

I generally do not agree with your ideas, but I am very thankful for all your ideas, discussions, suggestions, criticism of government and opposition.

It is time for all of the so called "small parties" to change the way MP's are elected to parliament. Fight for your percentage quota. Scrap the district system.

It's time to see a 3rd or even 4th party in parliament , coalition governments.

The younger generation wants that, they want to vote for individuals first and parties next.

Kurt Mifsud

Jul 15th 2011, 16:48

Tghid int waqa mis-sodda filghodu u qal ha naqleb? Nahseb ma kienx ilu jahsibha u jitkellem ma nies qabel....

Ms G Schembri

Jul 15th 2011, 20:58

Why not. Mela l-partit politiku xi dogma tal-fidi. Jekk int tahseb li partit ma jirispetax il-valuri tieghek, allura ma tivvutalux, jekk tahseb li-partit se jaghmel aktar gid minn iehor allura tivvutalu. Mela tivvota l-partit ta Missierk u ommok? Jien mhux dejjem ivvutajt lil-istess partit, dejjem ivvutajt skont il-kuxjenza, ghamilt bhal Gonzi et al, ivvutajt skont il-kuxjenza u ma qatx nara x'se jivvutaw ta madwari. Issa jekk bhal Dr Gonzi tivvota skont il-kuxjenza - wisq probabli tivvotta PL. Ghax il PN sarru wisq arroganti.

Ms Rudi Mcbeal

Jul 15th 2011, 16:52

I personally consider something like this a blessing for the PN, not a disaster (even if they lose the next elections). Certainly not.

Steve Mifsud

Jul 15th 2011, 16:23

Aaaaa, you want strong people like those in government???? That are strong enough to squander 4 million Euro on a referendum because that haven't got the spine to act?????? Then when they get the answer they did not bargain for, still want to have their way???? Yes, these guys are sooooo strong!!!!

Mr C Busuttil

Jul 15th 2011, 16:48

@Steve Mifsud

I am a nationalist although very critical of my party, engerer is an opportunist nothing more nothing less. People without values are not needed neither in the PN or PL because you can never thrust them.

Mr Peter Borg Olivier

Jul 15th 2011, 17:30

Well said Reuben !

Andy Farrugia

Jul 15th 2011, 15:56

Yes, even my weathervane does that, but i'm not too sure it's got principles.

Joseph Sammut

Jul 15th 2011, 15:59

Dear Mr. Dimech, it is good to have principles but you have to be mature and tactful to manouvre things. I wouldn't say Cyrus has great courage, I would say he has great immaturity and hurry which I feel will not get him anywhere quickly.

Mr Sandro Zammit

Jul 15th 2011, 16:15

..or maybe with the Nationalist party

MALCOLM SEYCHELL

Jul 15th 2011, 16:09

of course like John Dalli and Louis Galea did???? They didn't manage to change the party so it is impossible for a young candidate like Cyrus to manage to do any changes.

Gonzi is like an Arab dicatator leader. He has full control on his party and its media. A massive election defeat only can change the party again in the right direction, but Gonzi and the rest of his talibans have to leave the party.

Mr Paul Borg

Jul 15th 2011, 17:08

Mr. Seychell

As far as I know the will of the people prevailed. Divorce will become law. This would not have happened if we were living in a dictatorship.

Alfred Falzon

Jul 15th 2011, 23:31

@Malcolm Seychell
If you detest Arab dictators can you explain how you are still supporting Gaddafi in your writings? (Ref. blogs on the Battle for Libya).
Or is it just a question of political expediency?!
All far right activists today are now siding with the PL including Normal Lowell!
This is an open secret!
But on this point we shall dwell at length on other occasions!

Mr R ferriggi

Jul 15th 2011, 15:59

mr sammut,,,, i do not want to go into the merits of this case but you made some glarilng mistakes in your article.

people have the right, to change their allegiances.

people have the right to express themselves.

party policies are not always right, they can be wrong.

blind allegiance to any party is the worst thing that happened to this country.

Roberta Sciberras

Jul 15th 2011, 15:59

I suppose it is the season of political suicide Mr Sammut. Dr Lawrence Gonzi did it on Wednesday.

Mr Christian Azzopardi

Jul 15th 2011, 16:21

By the looks of it, you are anything but a "floater" and thus cannot really speak on their behalf, can you?

MaryJo Camenzuli

Jul 15th 2011, 19:50

Mr R Ferriggi,

So people have the right to express themselves,
that is, except the Prime Minister!

.

Mr Michael Mercieca

Jul 15th 2011, 15:59

For people their conscience is like a tart strutting down the street... it depends on how you look at it!!!

John Lusignan

Jul 15th 2011, 15:55

you mean Gonzi right! If someone betrayed us and the Nationalist party it is the Prime Minister and all of the other MP's who chose to ignore the will of the people thinking they are above us. MP's are our servants, we chose them, we put them there...they do as we say not as they wish or think! The people voted and our MP's betrayed us and everything the Nationalists stand for. They have betrayed democracy and they should all resign. Believe me I have been Nationalist all my life but am ashamed at the way the entire divorce issue has been handled! Well done Cyrus we need(ed) more people like you!

Kenneth Grima

Jul 15th 2011, 16:26

@E.Vassallo

Le noqoghdu pupazzi ''YES SIR, IVA SIR'' hekk tajjeb. Hallina minnek Mr.E.Vassallo, il-PM ma' baxxiex rasu ghal maggoranza ha noqghod inhabel rasi jien, mela jien u hafna nies Maltin bhali ghamilna xi kuntratt mal-PN jew. Jien nishett is-siegha u l-mument li vvotajt lil-PN fl-ahhar elezzjoni imma ma kellix ghazla ghax lil-Alfred Sant ma konx lest nafdah issa spiccajt nghid il-kontrarju ma nafdax lil-Lawrence Gonzi. Qabel ma jtir hu u l-erba bazzuzli xjuh tal-kabinett tieghu li jistghu jisejhu dittaturi ekklesjastici ma nergax nivvota PN. Sewwa ghamel Mr.C.Engerer.

Kurt Mifsud

Jul 17th 2011, 16:02

Try assumptions or close minded

Mr Stephen Baldacchino

Jul 15th 2011, 16:08

Hello we live in 2011 and next year is 2012 not 2010.............

Kurt Mifsud

Jul 17th 2011, 16:04

Is your leader really going the "kattolici" way? Oh yes I forgot he voted against divorce... cause that's what destroys families not the ever increasing tariffs and taxes while he and his friends are enjoying a 500eur per week extra

Andy Farrugia

Jul 15th 2011, 15:44

Your syllogism is fundamentally flawed; but you are used to this sort of thing in your stable.

Mr Charles camilleri

Jul 15th 2011, 15:55

Unlike the PL the PM immediately accepted the result of the referendum and promised to pass the divorce bill through Parliament as soon as possible. This has been done. What is wrong with that??????????
Why should we force a person to vote against his conscience when there was no need???????????

MaryJo Camenzuli

Jul 15th 2011, 19:48

It's not the PM who passes laws
but Parliament.

Parliament is doing just that
while 12 Nationalist MPs have voted for divorce
in a free vote that even the PM enjoys.


.

Mr Joseph Aquilina

Jul 15th 2011, 15:02

If you are in a group - and you do not like the leader of the group - or better still don't like that group at all - what do you do? Be a hypocrite and remain in that group OR be a man and leave that group to join another one that you like more!! pretty simple right ... can't understand how it's so hard for Cyrus (and you) to understand such simple point!!

Joseph Sammut

Jul 15th 2011, 15:19

Aren't others too? The way Syrus conducts himself is quite stifling to say the least.

I am sure that a man who stands by his principles (in Syrus case, he is young enough to yet have to prove himself) is to be admired and should not be argued about: I am sure that what people are not comfortable with Syrus is his unethical approach to issues. Totally objectionable by any standard.

Giov DeMartino

Jul 15th 2011, 15:45

Jioen li jwahhxuni "nies" bhal dan mhux li dejjaqhom il-partit, ikun liema jkun. Kieku perezempju san is-sinjur, irrezenja u dabbat rasu ghax dejqu l-PN....dawn affarijiet li jigru. U jigru ghal hafna ragunijiet. Jien jista' jdejjaqni l-PM prezenti, jista' jdejjaqni l-partit u jista' marradni b'qalbi l-gvern li ghandna. Kollox jista' jkun IMMA, IMMA, IMMA imaginaw lili mhux biss nibda mmaqdar dak kollu li fahhart ghal snin shah, imma issa nibda nfahhar dak li ili mmaqdar ghal snin shah. Jien ma nifhimx kif "nies" bhal dawn ma jisthux jidhru barra. Noprqod nazzjonalist ippatentjat, jghidulu, u nisbah laburist ippatentjat. Kemm haw min hu bla.........imma dan bid-dikjarar, fl-ahhar mill-ahhar.

Mr Joseph Aquilina

Jul 15th 2011, 14:49

The question is; does Cyrus Engerer believe in freedom of expression? Or this concept applies to him but not the PM? Why is Cyrus free to express his opinion but not the PM? Cyrus is more human then the PM? tell me?

Mr Omar Zammit

Jul 15th 2011, 15:30

What about those who chose to get married, and then are abused physically, mentally and financially??? Shall we give them another chance??

Ms Rudi Mcbeal

Jul 15th 2011, 17:57

@ Omar Zammit

Of course we shall - and another one, and another one, and then another, if need be...oh but wait...they'll have to afford to pay for the first one, first. Unfortunately (or fortunately, depending which way one looks at it) people will soon be able to find out.

Ms Rita Smith

Jul 15th 2011, 18:52

Very well said Mr Spiteri. Divorce will be a scourge to Maltese society. The reason that the proposed bill was put forward was to accomodate certain people and nothing else. They thought of themselves first and not of the Maltese people in general. Shame what a hallata ballata there's going to be. Thanks to these individuals.

Rita Smith

Mr Jean Paul gauci

Jul 15th 2011, 15:56

public relations I guess!

Andy Farrugia

Jul 15th 2011, 14:12

Try learning how to spell CONSCIENCE first.

Mr Joseph Aquilina

Jul 15th 2011, 14:18

"democracy of the majority" ???? What is that ????

What people like you want is not democracy. What people like you want is the humiliation of person, forcing a person to do something he or she does not want to do or that goes against that person religious values. Something that according to the human rights law is illegal. This is what you, PL, Joseph Muscat, Cyrus, and JPO want. They want to humiliate the person!! Now if that is ethical for you then good luck to you but for me that is not ethical and is not fun!!

The PM, like every other MP have a right to vote as they like in parliament. PL MPs don't have a clue of this because they come from a different background. All the rest know that THEIR BASIC RIGHTS are not lost once they are elected in parliament. EVEN MORE SO when 1) the referendum was NON-BIDING and 2) The country is divided in half on the introduction of divorce!!

Brian Gatt

Jul 15th 2011, 14:57

I am not sure but i dont think that we are the first country to introduce the divorce bill in the whole world le? so all the experts from around the globe are stupid ninnies and we Maltese know better.

Ideally couples get married and live happily ever after but unfortunately this is not the case for those whose marriage is working fine, great, fantastic keep it up, but you cant condemn those who unfortunately were not so lucky. Everyone deserves a second chance and for those couples who are seperated and are living their lives (eh ax bilhaqq we have seperation / anullment in Malta so couples are already splitting up) divorce will only regulate their position legally considering that the maintenace agreements will be settled during the seperation.

I. Cilia

Jul 15th 2011, 14:12

You must be a really busy woman....[not]

you have regurgitated the same things in different posts about 4 times....

Just once should be enough...

James Camilleri

Jul 15th 2011, 14:13

Is-soltu PN apologist. Thank God we have people like Mr Engerer in the PN because otherwise we would become more rotten than rotten cheese. Why can't you see that when a person is wrong he is wrong - whoever he may be - Prime Minister or not. The PM in this saga has tried to please both God and Satan - he wants the divorce bill to pass because the majority willed it and at the same time he voted against. Quite schizophrenic - don't you think? I am sure Mr Engerer can answer for himself - however when he made the above quote he was referring to the lady's democractic beliefs not her conscience. BTW have you taken a nice bus ride lately? I have almost finished reading the Bible in a couple of days on the long long long trips. LOL Hurray for criticism and down with lackeys

Tiziana Cassar

Jul 15th 2011, 14:29

What do you call someone who doesn't respect the will of the majority? If Dr. Gonzi feels like he cannot vote in favour of the majority, shouldn't his conscience have told him he should resign since he cannot represent the people?

Mr Joseph Aquilina

Jul 15th 2011, 15:08

@Tiziana Cassar
"he should resign since he cannot represent the people"

Dr.Gonzi was elected in the last general election not after the referendum, in case you did not realise that. The referendum was a non-binding referendum which (for the 100th time) means that the government is not required to follow it through. Dr.Gonzi left PN MPs free to vote as they wished (Joseph said something like that but we know what PL MPs do ... ). The law is going to pass. So can you please tell me again why he should resign???

The truth is that people like you do not want the divorce law but rather the humiliation of this person. That is the only thing you and the likes of you ever wanted. You couldn't care less on democracy as long as you have your moment of fun in seeing a person doing something against his will!!

Carmel Serracino-inglott

Jul 15th 2011, 15:44

Liberta means freedom of expression and voting. You are right JZ. The majority of the people who voted, voted for a bill re introduction of divorce to be presented in parliament. This was done democratically and according the rules. The PM represents ALL the voters ( and non voters for that matter) and so he has the liberty to vote as per his gray matter which is really functioning very well.

Ms G Schembri

Jul 15th 2011, 14:53

Yes Dr Gonzi is sooooo honest. He voted against divorce - that is against the will of the majority. He also voted in favour of 500 euro weekly increase on his and his friends wages, when at the same time he was telling our union that Malta cannot afford to give us any wage increase, even if we deserved it.
-I know I will receive a lot of criticism for this but I will do what I think is right for our country.”
That's the spirit of great leaders, Mr Engerer. - Dr Gonzi is not doing what is right for the country but what is right for him and his friends, that is not the spirit of a great leader.

Ms Rose Cilia

Jul 15th 2011, 14:59

You are referring to the same leader, Mary Borg.It was Dr.Gonzi who did not give a free vote in the honoraria vote.Ask JPO and JM they were against the increase but they had to vote in favour,remember?

Ms G Schembri

Jul 15th 2011, 15:01

Of course Adrian will pay the consequences. Do you think people will vote for him. So will Dr Gonzi, people cannot trust someone who does not respect the will of the majority. Luckily the majority of PL and 12 PN members of parliament respected the will of the majority, sadly the prime minister was not one of them. If PN want to save face Dr Gonzi should resign his leadership, and let Dr Demarco or Dr Cassar become leaders or else PN will also have to face the consequences of Dr Gonzi's actions.
By asking for Dr Gonzi's resignation Cyrus Engerer is putting the interest of the Party first.

Mary Borg

Jul 15th 2011, 16:30

" So will Dr Gonzi, people cannot trust someone who does not respect the will of the majority."

Dr Gonzi immediately after the referendum result said that the will of the people would be respected-even though the referendum was only consultative. He said that the parliament would vote in favour of divorce and he kept his word. Yes, some parliamentarians voted against because the Parliament is there to represent ALL the PEOPLE and not just the majority. 107,000 people voted NO and these are People too and deserved to have there opinion represented in Parliament. That's Democracy.

Dr Muscat, on the other hand, acted like a hypocrite. First he said the PL did not take an official position on Divorce and then used all the Media and all methods possible to campaign in favour of divorce without giving a voice to those within the PL who were against divorce contrary to what the PN did. The PN official position was against but let every one within the PN campaign in favour even within the PN's Media.

Muscat said that he would give a FREE VOTE to all PL parliamentarians but before the vote publicly said that those who would vote against m'ghandhomx "irgulija". That is crystal clear way of putting pressure on his parliamentarians to vote according to the leaders wish instead of having a real FREE VOTE. Bniedem bhal dan ma nistax nafdah.

Mr Joseph Aquilina

Jul 15th 2011, 14:01

"mr engerer, jpo and others, are the future of the PN!"

... then many PN voters will not be part of the future of PN.

Mr L Zammit

Jul 15th 2011, 14:08

That is jujst what the PL want and always wanted for George Borg Olivier, Eddie Fenech Adami and now Lawrence Gonzi. The PL have always targeted the top and they have failed miserably. Truth with eventually triumph.

Andy Farrugia

Jul 15th 2011, 14:13

Perfectly expressed Mr Joseph Aquilina.

MaryJo Camenzuli

Jul 15th 2011, 14:31

Mr A Spiteri:

I remember a time not so long ago when the Labour Party media
I followed so avidly painted Jeffrey-Pullicino Orlando as and anti-hero and worse,
together with Jesmond Mugliette and his roads sagas.

I'm not a PN voter, but if the PN is led by the likes of Jeffrey Pullicino-Orlando and Jesmond Mugliette,
then the definition of your 'dustbin of political history' will certainly have to change.


.

Ms G Schembri

Jul 15th 2011, 15:07

@ Mr L Zammit - No Mr Zammit it was Dr Fenech Adami and two other ex Presidents who wanted and succeeded in removing Dr Borg Olivier from leader of the PN, and not the MLP. That is part of the PN history you would rather forget.

Richard Curmi

Jul 15th 2011, 16:49

exactly, it`s what these extreme liberals will want next.

Paul Micallef

Jul 15th 2011, 13:22

Where was his 'conscience' when he voted for his pay rise and when he voted against the opposition's motion to reduce the water and electricity bill? And don't call about the 80s since PN itself is to blame of what happened, and you know what I am talking about! Dictators give people only 1.16 payrise and they themselves get 500!

Mr Joseph Aquilina

Jul 15th 2011, 14:11

@Paul Micallef
So now the new cool word is "dictator"? Just for any PL supporter with still a little bit of brain matter not effected by super one. Gonzi 'was' - 'is' (and pretty sure 'will' ) never a dictator because he was elected in power through a process called election which result was also recognised by PL and the international community. In order for Gonzi to become dictator he would need to retain power even after his term in office is finished. Pretty simple, but so impossible for many - included Cyrus - to understand!! and please do not make me explain what a NON-biding referendum is!!

Mr Tim Ripard

Jul 15th 2011, 14:17

1981 saw the PN start winning a majority of votes in every general election for 30 years, except one.

Mr Joseph Aquilina

Jul 15th 2011, 14:26

Yes, what Malta needs is back stabbers like Cyrus and JPO who see their political interest between the interests of this country!! A bright future indeed!!

Carmel Serracino-inglott

Jul 15th 2011, 15:31

I do not agree with you at all. I also live in Sliema and definitely you lost my vote for I first vote for young individuals within the NP a party that is truly democratic and which instilled freedom of expression-- as it should be-- unfortunately the NP did not succeed to reform the LP which still, in my humble opinion tries to get what it wants and what the country really needs by whatever means it could master.

Brian Gatt

Jul 15th 2011, 14:48

MaryJo, sorry once the people spoke there is no thinking about your conscience you have been elected to represent the people and to respect and follow the will of the people. Mr Engerer only stated what the majority of the Maltese people was expecting from its leader....to respect the will of his people !!!!

j brincat

Jul 15th 2011, 12:52

@Ninu Aquilina

Quote:'Grazzi Sur Prim Ministru.

Awguri Sur Prim Ministru Gonzi.'

Unquote: Thanks for what?. For voting against the wish of the majority? For making promises he knew he would not keep? For imposing immense hardships ( W & E, cost of fuel, gas cylinders....) on many household, especially those living on the minimum wage? For Arriva?'s chaos? For the inefficiency at the Emergency Department at the State of the Art? the list is endless.

But the worse of all thanks for giving yourself the handsome increase of €500 weekly against the people back?

Thanks for what? For dividing the PN? Not that I care, mind you!


(jb)

R. Borg

Jul 15th 2011, 13:18

Il verita toffendi Nenu. Lanqas tikritika lil Gonzi ma tista issa. X'arroganza.

Mr Carmel (Nenu) Aquilina

Jul 15th 2011, 19:18

@ Sur J. Brincat,

Jekk ma ngħidux grazzi lill-Dr Gonzi l-Prim Ministru preżenti ta' Malta, lill min tridni ngħid Ggrazzi.

Lill dak li mexxa id-dittatorjat Malti tas-Sittinijiet u t-tmeninijiet, lill dak li f' żmienu tkisret il-kurja u saru l-għar ħniżrijiet, lill-dak li ma riedx li Malta ma tidħol fl-Ewropa, lill dak li ma riedx il-munita ta' l-ewro tidħol f'Malta, Lill dawk li kif telgħu fis-69 tawni t-transfer vendikattiv u inuman, u kellhom jilgħaqu kollox b'ilsinhom.

U ser nerġa ngħidlu grazzi lis-Sur Prim Ministru Gonzi, u nżid ngħdlek li l-ġentlomi huma warajk Dr Gonzi, kuraġġ, taqtax qalbek, is-sewwa jirbaħ żgur.

John Zammit-Spiteri

Jul 15th 2011, 14:38

who is cyrus engerer to dictate what the country needs? some people are made of egoism hedonism opportunism and sheer cheek.

If cyrus has any decency he should do the right thing and resign because he chose to be within a party which upholds values.

Ms Rose Cilia

Jul 15th 2011, 15:08

Values like a 500 euros rise while the man in the street is asked to do sacrifices?

Mr Jeremy J Camilleri

Jul 15th 2011, 12:21

Jista jkun li dak iz zmien tar-ritratti, Gonzi kien persuna ohra ghall dak li qed naraw illum.

Int stess kont sejjeht lill dan il Gvern bhala l-aghar wiehed mill Independenza l hawn Sur Garcia....Ir realta hi li L-PN ghandu bzonn iktar nies bhall Engerer, u inqas nies bhall Gonzi.

Mr Charles Bayliss

Jul 15th 2011, 12:22

Mr Garcia,

Ghax tahseb li persuna jkollha dawn il-konessjonijiet kollha ma tistax tagixxi kif agixxa Cyrus sejjer sbaljat. ghax Cyrus mhux pupazz ta' Gonzi, dan kien kapaci jikkritikah u jitlob ir-rizenja tieghu. Kellu bzonn kull bully li hemm fil-partiti jaghmel dak li kien kapaci jaghmel Cyrus. Gonzi xeba' PM u jmissu jwarrab u halli lil xi hadd aktar kompetenti jmexxi l-Partit u lil Malta.

Andy Farrugia

Jul 15th 2011, 12:17

And i thought that politicians resign after electoral defeats; it's funny that you think they should resign on the basis of a couple of quotes by some greenhorn. Hilarious!

Mr Joseph Aquilina

Jul 15th 2011, 12:20

I wonder how you do not call yourself Dr.Patrick Zahra with all the lessons you want to give about democracy!!

Mr Patrick Zahra

Jul 15th 2011, 12:10

unfortunately party policies are in direct conflict with the will of the majority!!!!

Mr Charles Bayliss

Jul 15th 2011, 12:25

Democracy dictates that The Will of the People is supreme. Yes Divorce will pass but not with the vote of the Prime Minister who should have gave the first example in democracy. Divorce might not be the solution, agreed, but what is the solution: keep beating the wife, keep sleeping with 3rd parties; abandon the kids and their welfare, gambling the wages away whilst the family is dying of hunger. Some people do not see beyond the tip of their nose.

Nicholas Balzan

Jul 15th 2011, 12:26

Very well said, John. And well explained, not just said and left at that. Time will tell. When Christ expressed himself against divorce, as always he was being FOR man not against him.

MaryJo Camenzuli

Jul 15th 2011, 12:19

Dictatorship? Introducing divorce with which the Prime Minister disagrees
by a Private Member's Bill of a Nationalist MP
and with the Prime Minister allowing a
genuine free vote which was actually exercised by his MPs?

Dictatorship?

.

Joseph Borg

Jul 15th 2011, 12:50

I'm not referring to this sole episode, but clearly many many things have been bullied in if not dictatored. Obstinately voting against the majority of the people can be defined in what other term according to you? Conscious perhaps?! Not by whom gave himself and only those close to him a secret humongous pay rise from the tax you and I pay, while having left us with €1.16 to compensate for the inexorable escalation of costs of basic things such as power and water! This is civil dictatorship, yes!

MaryJo Camenzuli

Jul 15th 2011, 14:05

You will find dictatorships in
other times in our political history, Mr Borg,
but certainly not in 2011.

This is a great time for our democracy
when for THE FIRST TIME EVER,
a Private Member's Bill
with which the PM disagrees
is making it through Parliament
at the behest of the PM himself
giving a free vote to his own MPs
who have exercised that free vote
in order for Parliament
to approve divorce
by a near two-thirds majority
in less than two months
after te referendum.

A great time for democracy in Malta.


.

Daniel Debono

Jul 15th 2011, 12:39

Mr. Debono, can you kindly identify yourself (at least with a location)?.

I incidentally bear the same name and surname and just want to clarify that I did not post this comment.

Daniel Debono
Birzebbuga

MaryJo Camenzuli

Jul 15th 2011, 12:53

Perhaps Mr Engerer might want to tell us
what he thinks of Dr Eddie Fenech Adami
who would have also voted against divorce in Parliament.


.

Mr Charles Bayliss

Jul 15th 2011, 12:27

Ignorance ... quoting a 2,000 year old book which version is dubious if it reflects in original Hebrew and Greek versions.

Phil Humphries

Jul 15th 2011, 13:25

Sorry to disagree with you, Ms Vella, but I think that more PN members, especially MP's, should speak-out before it's too late. LG had become an electoral liability long before the divorce issue was decided and retaining him as party leader will divide the party and gift power to an ill-equipped and undeserving opposition.

Mr ALBERT FENECH

Jul 15th 2011, 11:52

Mr. Micallef, what you must understand is that since eight years ago, things have moved on to 2011. People of your ilk keep harping on about what happened eight, ten, 15, 20, 30 years ago drone, drone, yawn, yawn...but please be assured that was all in the past and we are now in 2011 and it's what's happening in 2011 that counts. As it stands, on 15th July 2011, Malta's Prime Minister is on record as having voted "no" when the majority of the people voted "yes"; that yesterday we were informed that according to EU statistics Malta suffered the highest cost-of-living increase in the Eurozone last month; that the new public transport system has wrought chaos; that electricity bills have the majority staggering to cope and that Parliamentarians voted themselves a massive salary increase. That is how things stand on 15th July 2011.

ALBERT FENECH
Qawra

Caroline J. Muscat

Jul 15th 2011, 11:59

2 wrongs never made a right Mr Micallef

Mr Pat Hobson

Jul 15th 2011, 12:07

Mr. Micallef that let your panties in a tangle. It seems that you don't know the whole story, or else want to ignore the truth of the matter. When a referendum regarding the EU was held, Dr. Alfred told EFA that if the people were to decide if we join the EU or not was not through a referendum but through General Elections. EFA, as obstinate as ever, went for a referendum, and the result was inconclusive. So he had to go for the General Elections as Dr. Alfred Sant advised. Now tell me who didn't want Malta to join or refused to respect the people's wishes. The Elections gave the go ahead to the governing party to join the EU, not the referendum. After the elections, the MLP changed its foreign policy to embrace the new EU one. And you still say that the MLP did not want to respect the people's choice. What is being done today is a mirror image of what happened in 2003, only this time there won't be general elections.

Mr Mario Micallef

Jul 15th 2011, 12:32

@ Albert Fenech...il-propaganda halliha ghal post iehor..jien qed inqabbel like with like...ghax hafna nies insewh dal-fatt li kien hemm min ivvota kontra r-rieda tal-poplu..jew insomma issa politakament komdu nuzaw ic-cirkostanzi ta' bhalissa...

Mr Mario Micallef

Jul 15th 2011, 12:38

@ Mr Hobson...i think you should have been a historian!

Mr ALBERT FENECH

Jul 15th 2011, 12:52

Ahna bhalissa qed nghixu u mhux fi zmien il-buznannu. In English - because I TOTALLY disagree that comments in an English-language newspaper should be permitted in Maltese - we are living in our times and not that of our great grandfathers. It is I who has to pay the electricity bill; it is I who has to pay tax so that our Parliaamentarians get their hefty increase; it is I who has to face Public Transport chaos etc. My grandfather and father used to tell me "...but when I was a boy..." yes, that was many years ago. But what's happening now? Real time Mr. Micallef, real time ... not the misty cobwebs of the past.

ALBERT FENECH
Qawra

MaryJo Camenzuli

Jul 15th 2011, 14:10

Mr Albert Fenech,

u inti se tkun li tħallas
għad-divorzju li vvutajt għalih inti,
ħlief li miegħek se jkollna nħallsu aħna wkoll.


.

Mr Tommy Vella

Jul 15th 2011, 12:02

And this should have been respected in the same way we respected previous results.

It was respected because the law passed its second reading, but respecting does not mean approving.

MaryJo Camenzuli

Jul 15th 2011, 14:13

C. Cauchi:

PN votes in 2008 election: 143,468.

Yes votes in referendum: 122,547,
ie 21,000 fewer votes.

.

C. Cauchi

Jul 17th 2011, 01:09

@ Tommy Vella :-
Since they were elected by the people, and they are there to represent the people, they should respect our decisions.

@ MaryJo:- If d majority said yes than they should have voted yes in parliament, this is or was a democratic country so the majority should be respected!

and one last thing, If Dr Gonzi voted No because of his conscience and because of our religion, he should have thought about it when choosing to get an extra 500euros per week, and giving us who have minimum wage 1.16euros!!

So please, open your eyes and learn to see that actions speak louder than words!


Well don Engerer, you proved that Gonzi PN are going to far!! and this is over the limit!

Ms Maria Vella

Jul 15th 2011, 11:27

Well said Alan

Mr James Grech

Jul 15th 2011, 11:39

On the other hand from a highly educated man like yourself, one would expect better and more logically correct arguments Mr.Deidun. Dr. Gonzi, being the PM of Malta, was not expected to air his own views. He did that more then once and had the opportunity to vote like many others in the referendum. What was expected from Dr. Gonzi, who was actually the one that suggested and agreed with the referendum, was to be able to rise above his own convictions and vote Yes for a law that has not just been backed by the majority of Maltese, but also by the majority of MPs. What you are not seeing, is that by his No vote, Dr. Gonzi is arrogantly saying that no matter what the majority voted, he does not give a hoof. This is irresponsibility and abduction from his duties as a PM, and a representative of the people and democracy.

MaryJo Camenzuli

Jul 15th 2011, 12:22

Well said, Mr Deidun.

Some people here are arguing as if the divorce bill has been botched,
not passed by a huge majority thanks to PN MPs voting in favour or abstaining.

.

Vicki Azzopardi

Jul 15th 2011, 17:18

Well said Alan ....

Ms Maria Vella

Jul 15th 2011, 11:28

Ok so you congratulate Cyrus for his supposed integrity and standing ground but lambast Dr. Gonzi for sticking to his principles??

Ma nafx jien.........

Mr Joe B Edwards

Jul 15th 2011, 12:53

Dr Gonzi ignored a referendum result. You don't know, because you are no better than those waving red flags adoring their leader and allowing him\her to shit on them in exchange for a vote. I "lambasted" Gonzi, because he was voting as Prime minister and he chose his personal opinion over logic, democracy and civil rights.

I don't tolerate people who ignore referendum results - especially those people who are in or seek the post of prime minister. I didn't tolerate Dr Sant and I don't intend to tolerate this bullshit now. There is no principle in denying divorce as a civil right, because it is religious dogma - "its bad, because Jesus said so or because I believe so " is not a principle, but an opinion or religious teaching.

Cyrus on the other hand has supported the referendum result and therefore I shall praise him for his democratic principles and for his courage to stand up when others were too chicken to talk.

U jekk ma tafx ahjar ma titkellimx milli titkellem u taqqa ghac-cajt - "Is it better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to open your mouth and remove all doubt" - Abraham Lincoln

Massimiliano Busuttil

Jul 15th 2011, 11:19

The 35% that did not vote is a big ? . I was talking to some people a few weeks ago and when the topic of divorce and the referendum came up most of the , it turned out, did not vote because they where unwilling to go against the church yet they did agree with divorce so if the people that did not vote where to be counted i think that it would still pass. I have talked with may people that did not vote and the most of them where in favor.

Carmel Xuereb

Jul 15th 2011, 11:24

Bl-Ingliz jghidu STAND UP TO BE COUNTED, issa sinjal li dawn il-35% gew jaqghu u jqumu mill-iva jew le u hadd ma jista jghoddhom dawn il-35% la ma l-iva u linqa mal-le. Issa l-uniku differenza li hemm mir-referendum tal-EU hija li dakinhar Fenec Adami biex jigi deciz ir-rizultat ghajjat elezzjoni imma din id-darba l-par idejn sodi ta'Prim Ministru li ghandna Lawrance Gonzi ma ghamilx l-istess. Tghid ghax beza' jew biex ihalliha mnizzla fl-istorja li d-divorzju dahal taht il-KAPPA TAL-PARTIT NAZZJONALISTA? Jien ma nafx imma li kieku kont jiena dak inhar stess tar-rizultat tar-referendum kont nirrezenja u mhux noqghod imdendel u issa bil-partitarji kemm ta' gewwa (tal-qalba) u mhumiex qed jghidulu biex jitlaq. Ara fiex gie l-Partit Nazzjonalista jahasra.

Mr Kyle Boffa

Jul 15th 2011, 11:26

using your reasoning.. ara mela kemm kienu iktar fil minoranza dawk li ma riduhx jidhol.. eeee u: "Those people decided not to vote because they felt uncomfortable".. nice assumption.

Mr Joseph E Briffa

Jul 15th 2011, 11:27

Some people keep making comparisons between the EU membership issue and the divorce bill. The former had an impact on the whole nation, the latter is of interest to only a few thousands. The weighting is not the same; EU membership was a major issue with a massive weighting, the divorce issue's weighting is hardly significant. One shouldn't therefore compare the two things; one has to compare like with like to make a meaningful comparison. The same reasoning should apply to the treatment of the two issues in the House; voting against EU membership is of significance, voting against the introduction of the divorce bill is not. The former is a major issue, the latter isn't...

G Debono

Jul 15th 2011, 11:34

Mr Zammit spiteri

1) Tell me honestly: Would you accept the same argument if the "no" camp had won with 54% ?

2) This is the same kind of sloppy counter argument based on an invalid back-of-an-envelope calculation that Sant resorted to when he lost the EU referendum.

3) how do you know that the 35% who did not vote were iagainst ivorce?. (after all it is quite possible that they were all in favour of divorce but did not dare vote because they were told it is a "sin" by various eclesiastics &c)

What you are saying is rubbbish - it is just sour grapes.

The people have voted and so be it.

MaryJo Camenzuli

Jul 15th 2011, 14:19

In the EU referendum, 143,094 voted Yes
and this result was NOT accepted.

In the divorce referendum,
122,547 voted Yes,
ie 20,500 fewer
in an electorate that is 27,000 larger now.



.

G Debono

Jul 15th 2011, 11:13

Qabel ma tghid "X'qatt ghamel Cyrus ghal Malta?" Ghidli x'ghamielt inti ghal Malta ???

Orrajt ?

Mr Mario Gauci

Jul 15th 2011, 11:25

M.Gauci.

@Joseph Borg. If you dont know who Cyrus Engerer is than you are living in the clouds. Let me tell you that he is a very promising young and avant guard man and future politician. The Nationalist party would do well to keep him into its fold.

Joseph Sammut

Jul 15th 2011, 11:31

@ Mario Gauci: that's your opinion and I know who Cyrus is.

C Muscat

Jul 15th 2011, 11:34

Ramon Mangion ippretendi li trid imma li jew jghamel li tippretendi int jew jitlaq ma taghmelx sens. Jien ukoll kont nippetendi li fuq id-distrett tieghi ivvotajna fil-maggoranza le u naturalment bhalkom kont nippretaendi li r-rapresentanti tad-distrett kemm pl u kemm pn jivvotaw le bhal maggoranza tad-distrett imma naturalment fejn irridu nsejhu l-maggoranza u r-rappresentanza u fejn irridu nhawdu kollox.

Ramon Mangion

Jul 15th 2011, 11:08

C. Muscat, ovvjament kont nippretendi imma li bhala PM li jirraprezenta l poplu jivvota skond ir-rieda tal-Poplu. Dak hu l punt

Edgar Cachia

Jul 15th 2011, 11:21

Popularity in Sliema????? qed jispara ghal saqajh. Agenda mohbija Engerer, dabbar rasek int u min jahsiba bhalek.

M Cassar

Jul 15th 2011, 10:41

Sur Buhagiar, Hekk tistmawhom in-nies li juru l-opinjoni taghhom fi hdan il-Partit Nazzjonalista? Dik Demokrazija eh?

Adrian Cardona

Jul 15th 2011, 10:55

Sur Buhagiar, nies bhalek beghduni mil-PN...u sakemm tibqaw turu din is-superjorita fazulla, insewni, u bhali hafna u hafna ohrajn. L-unika buzillis hu li il-Labour daqskhom gwappi.

Joseph Sammut

Jul 15th 2011, 10:58

@ M Cassar: ghandek ragun, imma nin naha l-ohra, hekk Cyrus jistmaghom lill-politici (shadbu) specialment il-PM, come on, ejja jkunu saqajna ma l-art habib. Tinsewx, li il 53% kienu tan-nies li hargu jivvutaw u mhux to Malta kif qied jintqal fuq ix-xandir - dan mhux korrett!. F'affarijiet serji bhad-divrozju, jekk ma jkunx hemm min tal-inqass 75% konsensus ta turnout mhux anqas min 90%, ma jigux ikkunsidrati. Mela il-fema ta minoranza giet imposta fuq pajjiz shih. Hekk sewwa?

Mrs shar camilleri

Jul 15th 2011, 11:01

kemm int demokratiku.. keep it up

Mr M Mamo

Jul 15th 2011, 11:04

M. Cassar bhal min qal lil-memberu tal-Partit tieghu: "Hu vvota kif ried issa jbati l-konsegwenzi"? jew bhal xi pinnur li giet mghajjra ghax qalet li ha tivvota le?

Susanne Grech

Jul 15th 2011, 11:35

Your arrogance brings shame to the PN.

Mr Pat Hobson

Jul 15th 2011, 11:57

@Mr. Mamo. Meta Anglu Farrugia qallu hekk lil Adrian Vassallo kien qieghed jghidlu ndirettament li politikament ser ibati mill-kostitwenti tieghu. X'ghandu x'jaqsam li qieghed tghid int! M"intix tara ghax Cyrus Engerer hareg jikkritika l-PM, hawn min hu lest itih il-kundanna tal-mewt politika. Jew ma taqrax l-ittri ta' kummentaturi ohra?

M Cassar

Jul 15th 2011, 12:04

@ Joseph Sammut, mela jekk trid nghidu hekk anke meta ivvutajna sabiex nidhlu fl-EU...xi tghid fuq din issa?

Lina Ghirxi

Jul 15th 2011, 12:06

donnu gej it-theddid issa!!!!

Lina Ghirxi

Jul 15th 2011, 12:09

evviva r-regime!!

Joseph Sammut

Jul 15th 2011, 13:11

@ M Cassar: naqbel mieghek habib. Jekk fimt x-ghqed jiena, ghqed "li f-affarijiet serji" w cert li t-tdhul fl-EU kienet serja bizzejjed li kellu jkun hemm maggoranza ta mil-inqas 75% biex tghaddi. (skuzawni tal-grammatika w l-kitba tieghi).

Mr Mario Borg

Jul 15th 2011, 10:38

Well said!

Mr Victor Laiviera

Jul 15th 2011, 10:42

Yes, Mr/Ms Borg - once the referendum gave a clear and unequivocal answer "Yes" - every MP who believes in democracy was morally and ethically bound to vote accordingly.

Those who did not have lost the right to call themselves "democratic".

Mr l Azzopardi

Jul 15th 2011, 10:50

tkellem għalik!

Mr Tommy Vella

Jul 15th 2011, 11:04

@ Mr Victor Laiviera.

In the same way tha PL resigned immediately on being elected in 1981 to make way for the programme approved by the majority of electors. Can PL be called democratic?

Mr Pat Hobson

Jul 15th 2011, 11:54

@Tommy Vella. Not only the MLP was democratic in 1981, and abided by the consititution, but co-opted the PN MP's who boycotted and forfeited their place in Parliament. After 2 years in the political wilderness, Mintoff saved EFA's skin when he ended up in no man's land when he boycotted Parliament. The only way for EFA at that time civil war, but Mintoff, the so-called dictator, co-opted him back in parliament and started discussing the process of amending the electoral laws, so that there won't be another perverse result, which by the way happened in 1987, 1996, and 2008, and is bound to happen again. The so-called dictator Mintoff, made sure that whoever gets the maximum votes gets to govern. It was through Mintoff's impetus that the ball started rolling. If it was EFA's choice., there would have been civil war in post-1982. As for the referendum, the PM had his chance with his conscience when he voted in the referendum. When the people, in their majority decided, it was up to the PM, the head of the Maltese People to mirror their wish, and not vote against. He went against the wishes of the Maltese people. And no number games can change that.

Mr Tommy Vella

Jul 15th 2011, 12:17

@ Mr Pat Hobson.

In comments in these blogs about PL’s black days we have been reading a lot of balderdash. It seems as if either the PL apologists themselves know the facts and are so ashamed of them that they are trying to camouflage them or else they were hoodwinked by their leadership into really believing that the PL in power in 1981-87 was the paradigm of virtue.
Let’s forget about the fact that the 1981 election result turned out that way not by accident but by gerrymandering of the districts, like when two particular villages, not contiguous as the constitution demands, were joined together by a long corridor of land, in the planned reformation of the districts so that all the waste of votes (one sixth of the votes in every district is wasted) would be lumped on the PN’s side. Let’s believe the PL that the electoral district reform was carried out in good faith.
What happened after the election and what should have happened? This is the proof of the pudding.
The electorate showed in its majority that it was not happy with the PL’s electoral programme. The same way that the electorate showed (through a much smaller sample) that it wanted divorce. PL apologists are scandalized by the PM voting no, against the electorate’s wishes, with the divorce reading being carried through anyway, but seem to close both eyes to the fact that the whole PL disregarded the electorate’s message: “We do not want your programme to be implemented”!
What should have happened given that the PL victory was legal and constitutional in letter but not in spirit? On election, the PL should have started talks with PN about the necessary immediate steps to be taken to rectify the situation. I believe that the PL should have governed only administratively, without implementing anything in its programme, for a short time; one, maybe two, years, at the most, while holding talks about the necessary amendments.
What did really happen? The PL not only went ahead with its programme including the most controversial issue of the church schools among others, but hung on to power for the longest possible term granted it by the constitution, 65 months, squeezing time out to the very last day . No other government since 1964 has remained that long.
The PL apologists are trying to take credit for the fact that the constitution was amended by their party, when everyone knows that Labour could not do otherwise given the situation in the country especially during 1986 (Tal-Barrani, Raymond Caruana, the attempts against Josie Muscat, the Tarxien PN club, etc). And even then, it tried to squeeze every last drop of advantage out of the situation by tying the neutrality clause to this amendment. I expect PL apologists see this as very gentlemanly behaviour.
PL apologists try to excuse what happened in 1981 by going back to 1971, when it also nearly happened. The real fact is that IT DID NOT HAPPEN THEN. We say that a miss is as good as a mile. The PN has many faults and there are many criticisms one can level at it, however, this particular, very undemocratic blot can only be laid at the PL’s door. And it can never be erased from history.
Like the likewise undemocratic suspension of the Constitutional Court in 1976-1977.
But that is another story.

Joseph Sammut

Jul 15th 2011, 10:48

If one calls this healthy politics, then I don't know what the world has come to. I would tend to call it rough, un-cultured, unethical, gioventu (to use your own sense), BLA SENS.

joe cutajar

Jul 15th 2011, 10:31

prosset u jien norbotlu ohra biex jinzel zgur

M Cassar

Jul 15th 2011, 10:43

Its Good to speak up when things are not right. Everyone have the right to speak... ma nistghux nibqghu COWARDS!!! u nibilghu dak kollu li jbellghulna!!!!

Joseph Sammut

Jul 15th 2011, 10:45

I wish I were as sure as you that Cyrus had Slient resdients FIRST in his last action.

Mr Tommy Vella

Jul 15th 2011, 11:01

Why don't you move to Sliema to have such a bright young spark in your council ... or else convince Cyrus to move to St. Paul's Bay.

Charles Micallef

Jul 15th 2011, 14:55

@Joseph Sammut & Tommy Vella

.................remove the blue colour lenses, and then you might see clearer!

Mr Tommy Vella

Jul 15th 2011, 17:56

I only gave you a hint how to satisfy your wish!!!

Charlie Borg

Jul 15th 2011, 11:07

And who's fault is it that the PM is in the state he is?
Who wanted a referendum?
Who passed over the buck to the people?
Who?
So, Engerer's is no 'dastardly coup de grace' but it is 'genial and considerate'.

Andy Farrugia

Jul 15th 2011, 11:24

You seem to have all the answers to your flawed queries so it is futile to disabuse you of your conclusion.

Ray Gatt

Jul 15th 2011, 11:20

He is not unhappy with PN. He is unhappy with the PN leader and PM of Malta as many nationalists like myself are. He is unhappy with those who in Parliament, although elected by the people to serve the people, at the vote of the 2nd divorce reading voted against the wish of the same people who put them in power, using their principles and conscience as an excuse. Are €500 weekly pay rise not on their conscience considering they only gave a measly €1.16 weekly to the rest of the country. What kind of principles are those? You are right about one thing though, some maltese want to become millionaires overnight.
"Also he knew that the divorce bill would pass from the parlament." So, are you saying that if he thought it might not go through, he would have voted against his CONSCIENCE and PRINCIPLES.

I have a conscience and I've got principles too, and come next GE I'll be going by them.

Mr Tommy Vella

Jul 15th 2011, 10:58

Too bad that he will still be taking actions in your name.

Our PM won't be our PM any longer not when YOU say so but either when he or the electorate decides so.