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Friday, June 17, 2011, 10:29 by

Kristina Chetcuti

'Geologically promising rock' for a Gozo tunnel

Video: Paul Spiteri Lucas

The rock in the area of the channel between Malta and Gozo seems to be “geologically promising” for the excavation of a subsea tunnel in rock underneath the seabed, according to a Norwegian rock engineer.

Eivind Grøv, chief scientist and from Sintef Building and Infrastructure, said building a tunnel will take between five to 10 years, though the length of time varied between three to four years for planning and programming and another two to three for the actual construction.

Prof. Grøv, president of the Norwegian Tunnelling Society, was addressing a public meeting in Gozo on the proposal to link the two islands with a subsea tunnel. He was invited, on a three-day visit by the Gozo Business Chamber in junction with the parliamentary secretariat.

The conference room at the Grand Hotel in Mġarr, where the public dialogue took place, was packed with more than 150 people, mainly Gozitans of all ages. 

Prof. Grøv insisted that if the tunnel project went ahead there had to be further investigations and much more detailed geological data collected.

He told The Times the most important requirement for excavating a subsea tunnel was the presence of hard rock.

“The rock as far as we can see looks promising. There are certain horizons in the geological stratigraphy that we should try to avoid like the blue clay horizon, but limestone is a good rock. Further investigations need to be done before you can draw any firm conclusions, of course,” he said. 

Prof. Grøv would not commit to the best exit locations, should such a tunnel be built and said there was some work that had to be done to try to establish tunnel alignment.

“At this point in time I don’t think we can draw any firm conclusions where this particular tunnel should be located, but one would probably be looking at a level in the range of 100 metres below sea level, maybe even deeper, but in that range.”

The depth of the tunnel excavations will determine the location of the tunnel exits, the incline and the length of the onshore approach roads. It was important to always try to keep the entrance points as close as possible to the sea level. 

Members of the audience raised the issue of safety, some asking about the perils of earthquakes and others about emergency routes, but Prof. Grøv dismissed the concerns related to seismic activities.

“It’s interesting, because if you compare how tunnels behave in case of earthquakes, the experience suggests that actually the safest place to be would be in a tunnel. Constructions at the surface are much more prone to damage than the tunnel itself,” he said.

There would be no emergency tunnels, he said, or any sort of escape routes because these types of subsea tunnels operated on a self-rescue system.

“There is a traffic control system which directs instructions to car drivers in case of emergencies. For example it can ask them to turn round and exit the tunnel, so that the entrance can be closed.”

He explained that there would be dedicated niches to allow cars to pull to the side, turn and go back.

Prof. Grøv said the material excavated from the tunnel could be “an asset for Malta”, and that depending on the quality of the material, “it could be recycled”. He also said the tunnel would not require daily maintenance, but cleaning “some four times a year” and regular monitoring of the operational installations, which might have to be changed every 15 years or so.

In Norway there are 30 subsea tunnels, ranging in length from 1.6km to 7.8 km. The deepest one is 287m below sea level. Due to the prevalence of avalanches, landslides and snowfalls, subsea tunnels have, over the past 30 years, been the best connection between the several islands separated from the mainland by fjords.

Prof. Grøv discussed in technical detail the main excavation methods and the support measures applied, saying that the excavation of the first 150 metres on both sides were the most prone to accidents. He also mentioned seismic and tectonic movements, water inflow and weakness in rocks as the biggest risks during the construction phase.

During the building of subsea tunnels in Norway, there had been three major accidents, but to date no tunnel project has been abandoned he said, highlighting the importance of pre-investigations to identify the geological risks.

“There will always be some risk. However, this is proven technology – tested for over 25 years. This is not rocket science at all, but careful planning, understanding and management of risk,” he said.

Last week Prof. Grøv told The Sunday Times that although putting a price tag on the tunnel was premature, similar subsea tunnels in Norway cost around €13,000 per metre. With a straight line distance between Malta and Gozo of five kilometres, this means the subsea section of the tunnel alone could cost around €65 million to build.

Parliamentary Secretary Chris Said mentioned the various possibilities of obtaining EU funds for the subsea tunnel project.

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Christian Sciberras

Jun 19th 2011, 19:32

Jidirlek hazin. L-EC iffinanzjat trieqat maguri, u ma nistghax nara ghala ghandha tieqaf issa. Tinsiex li dawn il flus huma cirimelli ghal ewropa.

Jekk hux mina jew pont ma tantx taghmel differenza ghalija, avolja jidirli li mina fiha aktar vantaggi.

Fl-ahhar haga, il-punt mhux djalett, il-punt hu li jidirlek li m'ghandux issir mina minhabba li l-Ghawdxin ma haqqhomx, mhux hekk ghidt?

Carmel Ellul

Jun 19th 2011, 09:50

There are thirty or so islands on the Florida Keys all interconnected by a low causeway. Some are three or so miles apart. The causeway between Gozo an Comino can open up as does one bridge in Fort Lauderdale to allow ships to go through. The Thames is just shorter than the distance between Comino and Malta and the bridge was constructed in a short period of time.
The tourist industry in Gozo can keep going all year round. Gozitans can cross in under 10 minutes and be in Valletta in about 30 minutes. The hotel in Comino can have paying guests throughout the year. Any four star hotel can be upgraded to five star in Gozo and open throughout the year.

Jesmond Micallef

Jun 18th 2011, 15:54

Ms. Kristina Chetcuti, good to see you and hear your voice, again, you do some splendid work here, if I may :-))

Witn my best wishes.

Mrs C Zammit

Jun 18th 2011, 17:30

Agreed

John Attard

Jun 18th 2011, 19:12

fought on the 13th district?? I think at the moment if an election is held, even if all gozo votes PN still LP will win the election:)

Mark Galea

Jun 19th 2011, 13:38

The election will not be held today, my friend. :)
It will be held when the opportune time arrives :)
And if at that time all of gozo votes to a party it is 100% sure that that Party will win.

Daniel Tabone

Jun 18th 2011, 14:28

Mela mur ghallmu int William la taf daqsekk fuq Malta, jara lilek bizzejed ax ikun ra kollox!

Mr Andrew Camilleri

Jun 17th 2011, 21:15

says a person that doesn't go every week

Mr Robert Tagliaferro

Jun 18th 2011, 01:54

@ Anthony Busuttil. A land link between Malta and Gozo should certainly be considered and this important national discussion should not be brushed aside as an election gimmick. We're not talking about abandoning the sea link to Gozo. Yes Gozo is beautiful, but do we want to keep it as a backwater ?

Danika Vella

Jun 18th 2011, 06:33

I was saying 'Oh here is a Gozitan who has a head on his shoulders' ... until you said that you do not need Maltese mass tourism. sorry, but Gozo thrives on 'Maltese' money.

Alistair Busuttil

Jun 18th 2011, 08:11

are you the spokesman for gozo?tourisim is business.Or we have to provide for you foreign tourisim from malta?.What a negative approach

Mr John Azzopoardi

Jun 18th 2011, 13:24

Yes, I wish we could get foreign tourist here in Gozo, but Gozitans don't know how to work the system properly. Gozo in itself is a beautiful island and should be marketed as such. But off course, all the tourist stay at resorts in Malta. If Gozo is marketed right by my Gozitan brothers and sisters, it will be a hit. What need to happen is have good and cheap transport facilities - Meaning - Mini buses from the airport all the way to Gozo - that is the mini's buses should board the ferry and not drop the tourist at the terminal and then they have to fend for themelves to tackle the luggage. That is one inconvenience that a tourist does not want to be bothered with. And on top of that, you will see all the maltese and gozitans staring. Am I right or wrong. Believe me, I know what I am saying.

Daniel Tabone

Jun 17th 2011, 18:57

Chris Said is a leader, because he sees and works to get things done, bringing the professor is again part of the promise, be a leader and positive individual not a critic please. And by the way if you were involved in the insurance industry you realize that state pensions are unsustainable due to an aging population which the only remedy is Second and Third Pillar insurance, therefore what real issue is there in pensions? Remember one thing man, politics is politics, investiment bis sens huwa xi haga ohra, thallatx hass mal basal....

Gordon Farrugia

Jun 17th 2011, 21:20

"the only remedy is Second and Third Pillar insurance"

brainwashing springs to mind. What do you think are Second and Third Pillar insurance? They are another form of national insurance excuse to charge you another 10% from your salary as tax for a private pension scheme backed by a company which might not be in business when you retire.

Daniel Tabone

Jun 17th 2011, 22:46

Another form of national insurance? They are what will make you receive a decent pension, Second pillar is split between the employer and yourself, and third pillar is voluntary, if we have an aging population the population contributing to the elderly would be less, we would have up to 35% of elderly people by 2020, the working population would not be able to support them unless there is a pensions reform like ones in America, where you save for your own pensions, D H

Mr Daniel Jones

Jun 17th 2011, 18:25

Interesting Fact number 2. Students at every other university in Europe, don't act like children and live with their mummy and daddy. They live close to the university they are studying at. Apart from the course, this teaches them valuable life skills. Such as how to do their own laundry.

Daniel Tabone

Jun 17th 2011, 18:41

Interesting Fact 3: All Maltese University Students live with their Mummy and their daddy and dont waste their time cooking and cleaning for an exam, they spend their time studying, Gozitans arrive tired and could of easily used the transportation hours to study, 3 hours of studying helps alot, no? Stating facts man...

Daniel Tabone

Jun 17th 2011, 18:47

And further more Mr Daniel Jones, you do realize that you are stating that learning to do your own laundry is a skill? And that Maltese dont know how to do their own laundry because while going to University they did not learn this valuable skill? Lets state facts here no stress dude, i dont consider cooking a decent meal, doing you own laundry and cleaning a skill....you learn all those in one day mate....

Joe Caruana

Jun 18th 2011, 05:30

u hallina habib. studenti f universitajiet barra kolla ek jamlu ehe: isajru, jahslu, travelling etc. iringrazja lil alla li l gvern itik stipendju ta 250e fix xahar u l universita b xej. barra min malta studenti jridu jhalsu: universita, transport, post fej joqoghdu etc. hafna minom jispicaw jahdmu wkoll kuljum. nahseb iktar dawn m ghandomx cans jistudjaw milli int ;)

ma nihdux is subgha mill id. m ghandekx hassle daqs dawn in nies zgur. jekk taghmel plan u time management tajjeb, ma kollox tlahhaq. grazzi.

Daniel Tabone

Jun 18th 2011, 13:43

Joe Andek ragun, jekk andek ragun najdlek li ghandek ragun, pero 250 stupendju mandniex, bhalissa 76 qeda xbin, u kiku biss r ragunijiet biex ikun ghawn tunnel fuq ragunijiet ekonomici, kulhadd kapaci jpoggi l perspettiv tijaw, tijak tajjeb vera barra min ghawn studenti jghaddu min hafna ghar mandniex ax ingergru, ima knigu flistess ilma barra min aw bejn Long Island u New York fej jahdem z ziju tijaj ghamlu bridge, aliex? Ghaliex kinet sustainable forsi kien hemm farka aktar boghod pero jibqa l fatt li hela ta hin li jista jigi evitat fuq transport aliex le? Hin al hafna privat huwa flus, u inefficjenza, jien andi fidi kbira li direttament jew le kulhadd kapaci jibenefika min tunnel...

Mr david debattista

Jun 17th 2011, 18:11

Maybe you should travel more and see how it is for people like you in other countries, Lady you have it on a silver plate and you do not know it.

Victor Rodenas

Jun 17th 2011, 18:20

Perhaps a very small university could be built in Gozo,...a mini Uni.

Joe Caruana

Jun 17th 2011, 21:30

all students abroad choose the first option mate. thank the government for giving you 250e a month as stipend as abroad you have to pay for all!

Jesmond Micallef

Jun 17th 2011, 17:16

Probably, the entry and exit slopes would not be straight on both ends of the tunnel. Potential solutions here are a long and gradual spiral, or perhaps a gradual zig zag with a large gentle turn radius at each curve.

Anton Zammit

Jun 17th 2011, 18:35

@ Jesmond Micallef.....

One would need approximately 2-3km of entry ramps on either side!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Does anyone take these into considerations??? Where do we have such space and land?

Mrs Pauline Abela

Jun 18th 2011, 05:03

In many countries people DO wake up at 5am to get to work by 8am - it's normal. Do the Gozitans really want the pollution (car, noise) that easier access would bring to their island? Not to mention the cost which can be spent on improving the quality of the existing roads?

Daniel Tabone

Jun 17th 2011, 17:32

It would be wonderful if you go show the professor and the people your qualifications and your investigation paperwork on how you derived the 20 to 30 years. We could all spit numbers qisna qedin it tombla so try to keep nonsense discreet....

Alex Fenech

Jun 18th 2011, 08:11

Unless a spiral is considered perit.

Michael Grech

Jun 17th 2011, 14:24

Only time will tell if the people in the conference hall (not call) are hopeless hopefuls. What I do know is that the hall was full of a lot of sucessful buisnessmen and professional people.

Christian Sciberras

Jun 17th 2011, 15:13

Perhaps a minor detailed has escaped you, so I thought I should point it out...

While what you describe is something organized by a disillusioned (and sadly, lost) devotee, this conference was organized by people that actually know what they're talking about.

It's not "hope", it a "step forward". But I don't expect you to understand since people like you don't know the value of planning and discussion and think that "what works" is "what falls from the skies".

At this point, everyone knows the Maltese saying about prickly pears (aka bajtra)...

Michael Grech

Jun 17th 2011, 14:12

Sur Vella, it tunnel huwa triq

Christian Sciberras

Jun 17th 2011, 15:16

Ghala tirranga triq ezistenti meta hemm nuqqas ta trieqat? Il-mina fl-ahhar mil-ahhar hija triq fil-bahar...

Christian Sciberras

Jun 17th 2011, 16:04

To conclude your (not so) great points; we SHOULD NOT build the tunnel BECAUSE:
- The expert came here for free at our expense
- The expert has been lying about his experience, he's actually from Alaska, and builds igloos
- The tunnel "will never happen" (huh?? Elvis Presley never even existed, either!)
- Because Chris Said is trying to take the place of Governor of Gozo to gain access to the secret funds amassed under the Gozo ministry (since of course he's not paid AT ALL right now)
- And finally, because someone just did a calculation on the top of his mind and realized that the tunnel must be longer than previously thought (??)
- Oh nearly forgot, because the tunnel eventually has to open up somewhere.....!!!!!

Christian Sciberras

Jun 17th 2011, 15:23

So, you base your argument on insulting Gozitans, lying and inciting doubts?

(1.) 85% of the cost would be paid by the EU, the rest can be easily fixed with what the government is currently paying Gozo Channel.
(2.) I've never heard that expression regarding Parliament, in fact "maqghad" isn't even proper Gozitan dialect.
(3.) Prof Grov mentioned tunnels built for traffic of 300-500 on average. By the same measurement, ours would be at 3000. In case you can't count, that little extra '0' does all the difference.
(4.) Stop over-exagerating. Just because we loose one stream of water doesn't mean the world will end.
In fact, I'd say finally you might start to notice the water table isn't forever....

Mr Joe Xuereb

Jun 19th 2011, 00:21

@Sur Sciberras, bil-flus tagħmel triq fil-baħar, jgħidu. Imma ma nistgħux nassumu li l-Unjoni Ewropeja ser tissussidja lil Għawdex jidhirli. Tinsiex, qed nitkellmu fuq żewġ gżejriet, waħda żgħira u l-oħra terġa' iċken jekk jista' ikun mill-oħra, it-tnejn nexfin qoxqox speċjalment l-iżgħar mit-tnejn wara li qerdulha l-unika nixxiegħa ta' ilma ħelu li biha Alla għoġbu jżejjinha (għalkemm mhux l-aħħar tad-dinja, għandek raġun).

It-Turkija pajjiż immens, Musulman bid-don ta' ħafna ilmijiet, xmajjar enormi u muntanji msilġin anke f'Awissu; u raba' għammiela qatt ma rajna bħalha. Għal raġunijiet kummerċjali ħassew il-bżonn li jgħaddu l-kbira Ewropa ma'l-immensa Asja. Bnew pont enormi, tal-għaġeb. Allavolja għandhom servizz tal-ferries tajjeb u trasport fuq l-art eċċellenti u organizzat u kompetittiv. Kemm għall-merkanzija kif ukoll għal użu privat speċjalment għat-turiżmu jorganizzatissmu jġiblek għajnejk wara widnejk. Għalhehkk, pont (bit-Tork, kopru b'żewġ tikek kemm fuq l-o u wkoll fuq l-u (köprü) valeva la pena', ma jidhirlekx sur Sciberras?


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bosphorus_Bridge

I wasn't aware that Gozo had a dialect. But I do know that villages in Malta have their linguistic peculiarities, that's all.


Michael Grech

Jun 17th 2011, 13:41

Such a project would qualify for th Ten.T European Road Networks and may get funding of up to 85% from the EU. who said that this project has to be paid for by taxpayers money? Private enterprise might be interested in going in for it.

Mr John Micallef

Jun 17th 2011, 14:13

@ Michael Grech

Please let's not be so naive.

So we're ready to justify just about anything because the projects can get EU funding. In case you did not know, in 2013 the chickens will come home to roost and it will be payback time for Malta and EU funding.

Privat eenterprise, well, who would have thought...guess how much the crossing would cost then.

Lastly - how many thousands of REALLY needy commuters will be using this tunnel on daily basis to make it feasable? Because I'm sure that there are plenty of tunnels that would be justified around the rest of the islands to solve some of our traffic problems.

Mr david debattista

Jun 17th 2011, 14:41

You are just quoting statistics and figures, you are forgetting the environmental impact on a very unique, small, but beautiful island. If that is gone, I for one and most Maltese will not be interested paying any fair to go to Gozo if Gozo as it was is gone and we, ALL of us, are left with a replica of Malta. I have been to parts of Austria which once were beautiful, they went in, building houses on the mountains thinking that they are going to sell at some fancy price and get rich, attract commerce and what happened? THE WHOLE ENVIRONMENT CHANGED, IT LOOKS COLD AND UGLY AND IS EXPENSIVE . MOST WENT BANKRUPT. DO YOU THINK THIS IS WHAT THEY HAD IN MIND ? I SHOULD BE IN GOZO SOON, IF IT IS POSSIBLE TO MEET I WILL GIVE YOU A FEW NAMES AND IF YOU ARE IN A POSITION TO VERIFY WHAT I AM TELLING YOU GO AHEAD, NO NEED TELLING ME I WAS RIGHT OR THAT I HAVE A POINT MR GRECH. I love Gozo and have my property there for the past 24 years, so I know how Gozo was, How it is today, and how I hope it will never end up.

Lisa Galea

Jun 17th 2011, 15:28

Dear Mr Grech do you have a cut in this project? You seem very interested in the squandering of money on promises that hover in the air. Why should we further destroy part of Malta to accomodate an unsubstantial project?

Mr edward ciantar

Jun 17th 2011, 15:39

@ Michael Grech

And who will be paying for the tolls and upkeep in the long run?

It will be a non starter. Given that the road works will take over a year on the Luqa by pass imagine how long it will take for this tunnel to materialize.

Tickle me here. :)

Mr david debattista

Jun 17th 2011, 15:42

Michael Grech , If you build that tunnel, you will KILL GOZO forever, and for all of us ! make no mistake.
It is irrelevant if the EU pays the bill, the impact on the environment will change Gozo as we know it forever.
You will end up going out on the streets to the stench of petrol, building all over the place, and the characteristic of the culture will be lost . People like you only see money, in the end the Maltese will realize that Gozo is just a smaller Malta and you will have problems with Malta financing the tunnel. I do not believe the E U is going to commit itself for the building and maintaining the tunnel indefinitely.
So where is the hook MR Grech !

Michael Grech

Jun 17th 2011, 17:25

To Lisa Galea, I have no personal financial interest in this project. All I want is that Gozitans have the right of acess to any part of the country at any time during the day or night without having to waste hours waiting for a boat. All I want is to see our children continuing to live and settle in Gozo while deciding to take any opportunity of work whether it is in Malta or in Gozo. To John Micallef, at the moment about 1.1 Million cars travel between Malta and Gozo every year. the facility of a direct link will encrease that buisness considerably. To Edwin Ciantar, most of the tolls will be paid by the Gozitans commuting between the islands instead of paying for the ferry service. Cost of servicing the tunnel will be absorbed in the toll fee. To David Debattista, Yes the tunnel will be the changing factor for Gozo. It will stop Gozo from becoming an old people's home and making sure that young Gozitans can still enjoy living in Gozo. Gozo does not need any more building development and this would be MEPA's responsibility to make sure that no more rural areas of Gozo are destroyed. the benefits of such a project heavily outweigh any disadvantages that may crop up.

Mark Galea

Jun 17th 2011, 13:26

Well, Mr Daniel Jones
You are starting to understand ... the fight for next election will be in the 13th ... whether the others like it or not ... study the HIDDEN figures in the last referendum (not the obvious facts or percentages) and you will find that the 13th holds the key.

Christian Sciberras

Jun 17th 2011, 15:27

Mr Daniel Jones - So your the expert telling us the rock is unsuitable, right? Wait, you're not an expert? Hmm.

Besides, you're generalizing too much. Maybe you're just ignorant of the fact that not only Gozitans leave in Gozo, but tourists, and Maltese even. If your argument is about traffic or the tunnel not being useful, I'll challenge you to actually visit Gozo mid-summer.

How do I know you've not been here because? Why, because if you did, you wouldn't be making this short-sighted remarks.

Mr Daniel Jones

Jun 17th 2011, 18:23

Christian,
Your blinkered view of this issue seems to have lead you to miss my point. I will try to be a bit clearer for you.

If you pay an expert to deliver a talk to a room full of people wanting to hear that a tunnel might be feasible, imagine the uproar if he says its not and forget the whole thing.

As a diving instructor, I travel to gozo at least once a week all year round. I know the timetables off by heart for early morning malta to gozo and afternoon gozo to malta. Would a tunnel make this trip easier? Probably, but I use the time productively whilst waiting for the ferry, so saving 20mins isn't really that big a deal.

It seems the only ones being short sighted are the ones wanting the tunnel. Imagine the cost, don't say 'its ok the EU will pay' because until the money is in the bank then don't count on it. Imagine the cost to the environment - tunnel entry and exit points are an eyesore, even in the best countries that care for the environment, so imagine what they will look like here. Imagine how people drive here as it is. then put them under a tunnel, 100m under the sea and an accident occurs.

Imagine how long it will take to build. Your Norwegian expert predicted 10 years. It will take 2 just to resurface the road from the red tower to cirkewwa so don't tell me it will be 10 years to tunnel rock from Malta to Gozo.

Lastly, Imagine the spoil from the tunnel. Where will that go? Oh wait, it will go towards building all the high rise apartment blocks on GOzo that everyone will want now it is much easier to drive there, thus negating the very reasons for wanting to live there in the first place.

So don't accuse people of being short sighted, just because they see the tunnel plan for what it is, a white elephant that some people have jumped on teh bandwagon for because it will win votes instead of just saying, Oh don't be ridiculous, like they should have done in the first place.

Christian Sciberras

Jun 19th 2011, 19:24

Mr Jones - My "blinkered" views simply tell me that I'd rather pass through a hole in the wall (entrance) than waste a hole evening getting to a one-hour meeting in Malta.

First of, I don't imagine there would be an uproar if the expert said it wasn't possible. It's his job anyway.

Secondly, you mentioned several non-issues that have been tackled already;

- Financially, Malta can pay for the tunnel on its own. Not only that, but the financial boom afterwords is bound to make the debt short-term.
- The soil and rock dug out from the tunnel can be used in many different ways. As Prof Grov said, it's an asset, not a waste. Many Maltese are short-sighted and look at things as they are, and not creatively.
- Finally, regarding the entrance being an eye-sore, this simply breaks your credibility. Seriously, we have to forget this whole idea because of an unruly entrance?!!?

Regarding the whole idea being a white-elephant; flying was once, as well as deep sea exploration. The limit of human ingenuity lies where they put a line...

Michael Grech

Jun 17th 2011, 13:17

Mr Gauci, the tunnel is a road.

Mr John Micallef

Jun 17th 2011, 14:14

@ Michael Grech - thanks for reminding us.

Perhaps you can use some of the experience we've had in rebuilding our roads to get an idea of how long and how much will be involved to prepare this proposed tunnel.

Sam Cutajar

Jun 17th 2011, 14:25

A tunnel is a tunnel, and a road is a road ... you may have a road in a tunnel, however the expenses to build a tunnel that long would mean expenses hundred-fold than that of building a road of the same length. I think the money should be spent wiser in fixing the roads. Gozo will never remain a bliss if such a 'deadly' tunnel will be built!

Mr Mike Abbot

Jun 17th 2011, 15:42

Michael Grech - we have an entire road network in dire need of repair. A tunnel is a 'nice to have' compared to a properly maintained road system.

Matt Borgde

Jun 17th 2011, 15:52

Mr Michael Grech, He said fix not create.

Michael Grech

Jun 17th 2011, 17:36

Mr Borgde, by building the tunnel we will be fixing the current road that we have between Gozo and Malta. This is a road through which currently you cannot pass at any time you want, maybe totally closed for a whole day and can make you severly sick while using it. This road is currently called Gozo Channel Company.

Mr John Micallef

Jun 17th 2011, 13:53

Well said, Mr. Casha, and ironically, the Gozitans would be expecting the fee to be subsidised too!!!!

Christian Sciberras

Jun 17th 2011, 15:36

Ramon Casha - Investing in such a project, actually, is an indicator of people "looking past their noses".

As many said before, the EU will be paying 85% of the tunnel. That's a fair sum. As to traffic, surely you can't be so short-sighted as to think the tunnel will be a tourist attraction? Is our airport a tourist attraction? What about the bus terminus?!

With regards to vote, the government knows I won't be giving any and I can assure you I won't vote for the government just because of this. Heck if I were so stupid to do that, I'd have voted years ago for the projects they did build. This is just a lame excuse.

I mean, let's be fair; we shouldn't build a tunnel so we don't vote for the government?! Huh??

Christian Sciberras

Jun 17th 2011, 15:38

Mr Micallef - Ironically, Prof Grov explained why initially everyone should pay the same price to pass through. As far as I know, no one in the room contested this fact, so your rather creative statistic seems to be just a quick improvisation to argue about.

Michael Grech

Jun 17th 2011, 13:42

We talk about the tunnel because it is a road which needs to get sorted

Mr Mike Abbot

Jun 17th 2011, 15:14

ok. what about the rest of the existing roads we can't supposedly afford to repair?

Mr John Micallef

Jun 17th 2011, 14:21

David Mangion, Dahhaktni tnejn, imma tassew ghandek ragun.

Meta jaghmu -tunnel, jien sejjer nixtra dghajsa...ahjar fuq l-ilma milla tahtu!!!

P.S. Nahseb illi fit-tunnel ta' Santa Venera ghad niskopru xi statwa tibki...min jaf?

Carmel Ellul

Jun 18th 2011, 21:34

you might find natural gas as well so we could have central heating in winter and not buy tanks of butane gas. our houses would be connected to the main gas supply and our cookers as well. where there is oil there is gas!

Maria Zammit

Jun 17th 2011, 12:34

The words I'd like to hear are "geographically possible"!!! Don't think it's possible to have an entry point on Gozo to reach a tunnel 100m below sea level! Might be possible if the entry point is in Catania though!

Christian Sciberras

Jun 17th 2011, 16:05

M(r)s Zammit, since you seem to be some sort of expert, please do tell us how deep our sea is...

Maria Zammit

Jun 17th 2011, 20:49

Dear Christian, the expert said the tunnel should be at least 100m below sea level or didn't you read the article?

Regarding you garigor entry / exit point on Gozo I have no problem with it if it's feasabile but I sure wouldn't use it considering I don't like garigor, thinking about it makes me dizzy... imagine driving down that! Do you really believe this will work? Perhaps cars can use a lift to go down to 100m below sea level! I personally prefer the ferry but then again if you really believe it's to your advantage I'm all for it.

To be honest I don't have faith in our politicians to plan for the future. They only see up to the end of their noses. Look at Mater Dei... not enough beds!

Mark Galea

Jun 17th 2011, 13:08

Agree with you.
I will do my best to see that the party that does not put the tunnel on the electoral manifest will lose as many votes as possible.
Everybody knows next election will be fought mainly in the 13th

Mr John Micallef

Jun 17th 2011, 13:56

Mr. Grech - you've got to be kidding!!!

How is the tunnel supposed to benefit either side?

One govt after another have swore that they will give Gozo a boost, but with this proposed tunnel, we're just confirming that we have failed to get the Gozo economy to start - since it will be used by the Gozitans to come to Malta to work stil!!!

Might as well use the money to subsidise the Gozitans to buy an apartment in Malta, since we've got so many vacant properties.

Mr david debattista

Jun 17th 2011, 16:51

NO MR Grech it will not be beneficial for Malta or Gozo . This is just your idea. Any Maltese will tell you that in the long run we all stand to lose, especially the people of Gozo . All that glitters is not gold !
No Mr Grech it will not be the salvation of the island, it will be the end of Gozo . as for employment it will hardly change anything. So what if you have to take the ferry to Malta to go to work, it is much better then driving two hours going and two hours coming if not in the snow . You should enjoy the crossing and the scenery. It is part of the fun and excitement going to Gozo, and we all know it. Stop all this dramatic propaganda about work , it will not make any difference .
Propaganda is all phony ! One final note............... Where is the hook Mr Grech .

Michael Grech

Jun 17th 2011, 17:53

Mr Micallef, the easy access between both islands will automatically transform this into more revenue for businesses on both sides of the tunnel. If the Gozitan still has to go to Malta for work, than be it; at least he does not waste 4 hours of his daily life trying to commute. Mr Debattista may enjoy the ferry trip between Gozo and Malta once in a while when he is commuting for pleasure and has no urgency to be in time for work appointments, trying to catch a plane, be at University in time, meeting your consultant at Mater Dei Hospital, and a hundred other valid reasons. Gozitans are all the time conditioned by an added extra amount of wasted hours every time they need to commute.

Christian Sciberras

Jun 17th 2011, 15:29

The tunnel entrance can be curved around to form an upward spiral. Again, not really rocket science, but as they say, common sense isn't so common.

"hahaha ha! "

Michael Grech

Jun 17th 2011, 12:43

Ms Zammit, the tunnel is a ROAD.

Christian Sciberras

Jun 17th 2011, 16:09

Heck if I decided I needed to stop every 5 meters to a meeting in Malta, it would take me ages. I don't think this is the roads fault, is it??

Ideally a bus would go through the tunnel straight to Valetta. Stopping thinking of the tunnel as a ship will you?!

Ms Eve Axiaq

Jun 17th 2011, 17:18

Gozitans work all over Malta not only in Valletta! Ask the facilitators and teachers, technicians, IT programmers and so on. You are a Gozitan and you know this. So are you assuming having bus routes from Mgarr to all over Malta directly? Tohlomx wisq!

Christian Sciberras

Jun 19th 2011, 19:27

Ms Eve Axiaq - The point is there won't be a terminus at the end of the sea anymore. A bus could travel directly to major stop-points. Then again, this is a futile argument.

Michael Grech

Jun 17th 2011, 13:48

Peter Joannes Henricus Franciscus Korsten needs to know that this poject could be financed by the EU for up to 85% of the cost. Maybe the remaining percentage can come from private enterprise and taxpayers will not fork out a cent

Adrian Cachia

Jun 17th 2011, 13:59

You couldn't describe it better!

You just forgot to mention one thing... the election stunt by both parties in promising this tunnel!

Mr Peter Korsten

Jun 17th 2011, 17:19

The EU will contribute to the estimated costs. The overruns will have to be paid by the Maltese tax payers. Could you please mention a major project that was delivered on time and within budget? A small hint: I wouldn't consider Mater Dei or the Manwel Dimech bridge.

Jesmond Micallef

Jun 17th 2011, 15:45

Well politicians in small little Malta always dream of making great things. Perhaps people can understand why !!

Now lets see in which direction the ball rolls here, that leading to Valletta or that in Brussels ? Whichever way, the whatever political would not lose and the champions will wave their flag of great achievement. Ugh Ugh, Who did this and who did that ? asked the caveman to the chieftain !!

Michael Grech

Jun 17th 2011, 12:30

If Mr Debattista was present yesterday at the Grand Hotel in Gozo he would have had all his questions answered.

James Shaun Cauchi

Jun 17th 2011, 12:35

In the same way that we pay a toll to cross by ferry, we would pay a toll to cross a tunnel. There would be a weight limit enforced on heavy vehicles to prevent stress damage, and the flow of vehicles would also be regulated at the ends to prevent snares.

There is no reason to believe that the tunnel would significantly impact culture in Gozo any differently than any connection would - Main economic impact would likely be vicinity of Mgarr harbour where businesses have thrived from the 45 minute gap between ferry passages - but there is no reason why this area cannot be repurposed as a minor tourism location in its own right.

Mr John Micallef

Jun 17th 2011, 14:01

Mr. Debattista, valid arguments, if not a bit close to Armageddon.

However, I really have my doubts about the benefits.

For 2 or 3 times a year, I go for a weekend break in Gozo - Fri-Sat-Sun. I eat out for breakfast, lunch and dinner. I stroll around and buy lots of stuff (particulalry clothes and goodies to take home). I am sure that many others do the same.

If we get the tunnel, I'll just drive over for a steak at 'L-Ankra' or a 'Pizza Maxokk', have a swim and return back home. Now tell me who's going to be benefitting from that!!!

Mr david debattista

Jun 17th 2011, 12:36

Not to mention the fact that we Maltese who live in Gozo have no rights. They do what they want, and what they like, and cover each others abuse . IT is only you who come First, second, third as long as you get your way. Maltese take care. Do I want to slander Gozo, HELL NO , BUT I AM SAYING FACTS AS THEY ARE ! If any Gozitan thinks I am wrong, then take me to court and prove me wrong ! Note, some Gozitans have had the same problems too. The system sucks ! Mr Gonzi should not be mislead by propaganda but study the facts, NOT ALL IS WELL WITH THE ADMINISTRATION IN GOZO. NO more Omerta !

Mark Galea

Jun 17th 2011, 13:38

@Mr David Debattista

No need to get angry against Gozitans ... it was your fellow Maltese who sent you to Germany.

Mark Galea

Jun 17th 2011, 12:11

Well, we are going to introduce divorce for "a few" and the rest will pay the divorce tax for it. I would gladly divert that money to build a tunnel.

Jesmond Chetcuti

Jun 17th 2011, 13:43

It will start at the bottom of the Ghadira hill and finishes somewhere near the Mgarr Port...

Paul Smith

Jun 17th 2011, 12:08

Well, i've met a fare few of your MP's including the finance minister when he was my mayor in B'kara

from what i have witnessed non are up to the job

Michael Grech

Jun 17th 2011, 13:31

If Mr Cauchi was at the meeting held yesterday he would have seen a few slides with examples of tunnel entrances very close to the sea. I suggest that he tries to get hold of the presentation done by Mr Grov before he passes any comments

Mr david debattista

Jun 17th 2011, 12:56

Do you know what is going to happen to Gozo Mr Gatt with all the traffic on such a small island. We are going to kill it, wait and see. I have seen it in certain parts of Austria. Everybody building houses on the mountains only to end up bankrupt because they did not sell .... WHY ? The environment had been changed completely ....... It is ugly to see and also expensive, most ended up losing their property . But the idea was if you build a house on the mountain, you will sell it for a very good price and become rich !!!!!!!!!

Mr Tony Gatt

Jun 17th 2011, 13:52

@ Mr. Debattista-
Gozo is turning into a building site already; but the follow-on is that that machinery could be used to build an underground railway system in Malta.
Malta will come to a grinding halt on the roads if things go on as they are.

Mr Mike Abbot

Jun 17th 2011, 12:48

a spectacular sight would be perfect roads

Mr Michael Debono

Jun 17th 2011, 12:03

The runnel under the sea is just an election bait. for gozitans.

Jesmond Micallef

Jun 17th 2011, 13:17

Mr. Marco Cremona,

Could you please propose what typical socio-economic factors should or could be considered here. I am not against the costly geological investigations at all. The data provides a library of knowledge about the geology that exists below the seabed between the two islands.

A permanent link between Malta and Gozo may be very expensive indeed, but the benefits that will bring on the long run are surely tremendous. I view this as an infrastructural neccessity, really. It promotes freedom of movement, freedom from inclemental weather, freedom and ease of access to all citizens, shuttle time will be tremendously reduced and eased off people's daily schedules and much more widespread use of public transport, Malta's only mass transportation system, if one may call it so.

Anyway, good luck.

Mr Tony Gatt

Jun 17th 2011, 12:24

That's what they said about the Channel Tunnel, now going strong.

Mr John Micallef

Jun 17th 2011, 14:42

@ Tony Gatt

Wow...comapring this with the Channel Tunnel, let me see...the latter has seen over 17 million passengers and 15.3 million tonnes of freight in 2010, that's approx 46,500 passengers a day and 41,900 tonnes a day.

Mr Joseph Aquilina

Jun 17th 2011, 11:37

A very good point, but I am afraid this one might make it through ... it involves polluting Malta more not less!!

Paul Smith

Jun 17th 2011, 12:12

Yes, what did happen to the wind farm project?
A wind farm may be the only way to power RO later on this decade

After spending a decade in Malta and seeing some of the workmanship done on other projects - i would fear for my life using any tunnel you built.


Mark Galea

Jun 17th 2011, 11:13

We could channel 1/13 th of the divorce tax to the project and refuse divorce in Gozo. :)

Mr M Mamo

Jun 17th 2011, 11:17

the tunnel from Malta to Gozo will cost 60-70 million not 150 mil ... the 150 mil figure was the first stipulated one

Nick Pace Debono

Jun 17th 2011, 11:57

very well said!

Stephen Koludrovic

Jun 17th 2011, 12:24

The mater dei Hospital was supposed to cost around 45 Million, and look what it ended up costing.

Mark Galea

Jun 17th 2011, 11:06

10,000 CARS !!!
Using your calculations, if these cars carry 2 persons each, 20,000 people will cross to malta !!!
In Gozo there are around 30,000 people (and a substantial number of them maltese registered on a gozitan address)

Are you saying that 2/3 of the population will come over to Malta every day???

I leave it to the readers to arrive to their conclusion about your reasoning :)


A DeBrincat

Jun 17th 2011, 11:33

Mr Aquilina, from where have you got the 10,000 car calculation? From a recent study from University of I DON"T KNOW WHERE?

Obviously enough if the tunnel/bridge exists, not only Gozitans use it, but Maltese and tourists alike!

Mr Joseph Aquilina

Jun 17th 2011, 11:35

@Mark Galea
I guess not only Political leaders see up to their noses!! Guess in your imaginary world the population of Gozo will remain fixed right!!! ...

The only that can profit from a tunnel (not tube) are companies not the people!! For the people a tube would be much better and can take people from Gozo to Valletta in couple of minutes!! That is really good for the Gozitans!! not a tunnel/bridge which will force people to use their cars even more...

Mark Galea

Jun 17th 2011, 12:16

@Joseph Aquilina
I have no issue if it is a tunnel for cars or a tube, etc as long as it is a permanent link.

And about the tube from gozo to malta and A TRIP IN A COUPLE OF MINUTES !!!
Is this another calculation like the one about the 10,000 cars?
Assuming there is a distance of 40 kilometres, the tube must speed at around 1,200 km per hour to make 40 km in a "couple of minutes".

Again I leave the public to evaluate your mathematics.

Mr Joseph Aquilina

Jun 17th 2011, 12:33

@A DeBrincat
What would be better for the Gozitans, Maltese and Tourists? A tunnel? Forcing these poor things to use their cars to travel from Malta to Gozo and vice-versa? or a TUBE (the likes of the London Underground) which would be able to take Gozitans, Maltese and Tourists from Gozo to Valletta in 5min to 10min? Easy access to Gozo means that the population is increased (regardless if Tube/Tunnel) therefore the 10,000 figure (considering we have at least 10 to 20 years to see this project finished) is reasonable.

Mr Joseph Aquilina

Jun 17th 2011, 13:31

When I make a mistake I admit it, did some research. The London underground train goes at 33Km/hr. Figure taken from;

http://www.tfl.gov.uk/corporate/modesoftransport/londonunderground/1608.aspx

The distance (strait line) from Rabat (Gozo) to Valletta is around 30km (use Google map). Therefore, not considering any stops (to be precise) you would take little less then hour to travel a distance that with a car would take you much more. If a tunnel can be built then a tube is also possible and the second is better since it will pollute less and still provide all the benefits (if not more) then a tunnel.

Note: the figures are with today technology, this will need at least 10years to get started and technology might have improved further thus reducing the amount of time required for such distance to be covered.

Victor Rodenas

Jun 17th 2011, 11:39

It will not be built but just in case,if I am the engineer I will dig at the same time from Malta and Gozo and meet in between,so 25 divided by 2 = 12and a half yrs.

Mark Galea

Jun 17th 2011, 11:11

Well then, if you think it is a ploy to take the focus from the divorce issue, then here in Gozo, we can refuse to have divorce and use the divorce tax to fund the tunnel. I am sure it will pay out in a number of years.

Gordon Farrugia

Jun 17th 2011, 13:17

yea why don't you declare yourselves an independent Republic come to that

Mark Galea

Jun 17th 2011, 10:43

And, by the way, in the long run it will definitely cost the tax payer less than the divorce tax.

Ms S Micallef

Jun 17th 2011, 10:57

are you serious??? Out of all things to use the money for you think that the tunnel deserves priority???

That money shuold be put into education...it seems a chunk of the population is still lacking in this area.

Joseph Borg

Jun 17th 2011, 10:45

This guy was invited to talk by the Gozo business Chamber. Can't he give his opinion.

If the government wants it, then, yes, we will pay for it.!

Grow up!

Mr D Gatt

Jun 17th 2011, 10:52

Why would you make that assumption? He was invited as a speaker / consultant not as a financier.....

Mr Joe Micallef

Jun 17th 2011, 10:58

Ramon Casha Grow Up! on second thought never mind!

Mr Richard Caruana

Jun 17th 2011, 11:35

Yes, the tunnel is beginning to look like a priority. Replacing the existing ferries will cost just as much, if not more. These ferries will not last forever, and once the infrastructure is in place, the tunnel will not burn fuel like the ferries do.

Others have derided the idea because of the small Gozitan population, without thinking of the thousands of Maltese that cross over each year with their car.

Let's really study the idea before we even try to shoot it down; we're already fifty years late on this as a causeway in the 1960s was shot down with the same arguments. It would have paid for itself tenfold by now, saved us millions in new ferries and their operating costs.

Mr Michael Debono

Jun 17th 2011, 11:58

If the Gozo channel is 8 kilometers wide, then to this has to add some two kilometers on each side of the tunnel in order to excavate a tunnel under the sea. For this purpose one has to dig a whole down under the ground to accomodate the entrance a hole deeply starting away from the sea. If any one has an experience of the English channel will realise that the entrance is kilometers away from the sea -shore. Its cost is enormous and maintenance is probiting.. If ever oil is discovered then might be we will have the finances, not otherwise.

Mr Joseph Aquilina

Jun 17th 2011, 13:41

@Richard Caruana
And what will pass from the tunnel? rabbits and donkeys? Cars consume fuel as well. If electrical you still need some source of power. If a tunnel is possible then a tube might be a much better idea since it should be able to pollute less.

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