The race is on - Philippine Parliament to consider divorce!
The cartoon in The Times today.
The race is on to find which country will be the last to introduce legislation on divorce.
Following the referendum go-ahead for divorce legislation in Malta, it was revealed today that the House of Representatives in the Philippines will also start discussing a bill to introduce divorce. The debate starts on Wednesday.
Gabriel party-list Rep. Luzviminda Ilagan made the announcement right after Malta voted in a referendum to pass a divorce law—giving the Philippines the distinction of being the only country outside of the Vatican City without a divorce law, ABS-CBN News reported.
Ilagan filed her bill in July 2010 (as did Jeffrey Pullicino Orlando in Malta), while another MP, Cagayan de Oro Rep. Rufus Rodriguez filed a similar bill just last March in the Philippines parliament..
Ilagan said in a statement emailed to reporters: "Let us not keep our country in the dark ages. I appeal to my colleagues in Congress to let the legislative mill run its course on the Divorce bill without further delay and give Filipino couples in irreparable and unhappy marriages this option."
Ilagan's bill proposes five grounds for the filing of a petition for divorce. According to the measure, couples who may apply for divorce include those who have been separated in fact for five years and those already legally separated for two years.
Grounds for legal separation may also apply when these same grounds have already caused the irreparable breakdown of the marriage.
In addition, psychological incapacity, causing one's failure to comply with essential marital obligations and irreconcilable differences causing the irreparable breakdown of the marriage are also recognized as grounds for divorce.
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Mr Joe Xuereb
May 31st 2011, 18:18
@Charles Bayliss (yesterday 12:27) One has to kIeep in mind the Nature of the Beast that the referendum was about. It was not about whether there should be a tunnel between Malta and Gozo. IT WAS ABOUT AN ISSUE THAT DEFINITELY(not maybe, but DEFINITELY) RELEGATED ONE TO HELL IF ONE VOTED YES, AND EVERLASTING BLISS(?) IF ONE VOTED NO. Getting one's head round this certainty, I find it easy to regard the abstainees as a reserve backup for the Yes voters. If an abstainee is going to be regarded as a No voter, seeing that they had everything to gain (spiritually speaking, ie Heaven), they would have voted No and not stayed at home. But they abstained BECAUSE they leaned heavily towards the YES vote in principle at least but did not want to be damned, possibly. So yes, most if not all abstanees can safely be regarded as backup for the Yes vote. A backup that the yes vote did not need in any case because of its victory where it counts, and unequivocally.
Towards the earlier comments submitted there was some debate about last-minute, death-bed repentance, etc. And somebody mentioned indoctrination from day one of a child's life (baptism to take away an Old Testament sin no less. Cannot start much younger than that if one tried).
Life is beautiful in all its horror and its beauty (certainly the physical world is, with its majesty and the horrors that created it - beautiful snow-clad mountains and the earth movements that created them, killing everything in their path, including people and their babies). The emotional(spiritual, if one likes) is not less horrendously beautiful, having to deal with the 'demons' hurled at us that we have to deal with, overcome, or merely live with. Including our demise and how our consciousness copes with this. Interestingly, Religion takes care of all this at a stroke - it uses a book of rules so that one may accept 'life's catastrophes' with equanimity and aim for the life beyond what is necessarily, an unknown. Religion is a human invention, a sugary pill to sweeten life's inevitable bitterness. I'd rather confront and deal with the bitterness. It makes me human AND HUMBLE. On the other hand, going through life in an anaesthesized state is the deprivation of life itself. What could be worse? And more insidious. As someone said (Socrates I belief), the unexamined life is not worth living. And I'm afraid believing in the unsubstantiated is not examining. Not in MY bOOK, it ain't.
The divorce referendum was time-consuming, anger-making, costly. And unnecessary. But every cloud this side of the pearly gates has a silver lining. And ever positive, it served a very useful purpose. It showed up the weakness in the Maltese people's fabric and it showed its emerging strength. The trend will continue.
One final point. I was disappointed to read some comments by No voters who were anxious that their taxes would go towards feeding and caring the children of divorced parents. No realising that s/he was saying that they preferred their taxes to go towards building white elephants rather than helping children in need. Very christian!
It is interesting that the majority now rendered a minority is asking for respect. A salutary lesson there. It is useful for the oppressor to be in the shoes of the oppressed and see how it feels. But there we are! Maybe we could invent a religion to sweeten yet another of the human's many wonderful fears and foibles.
A Zammit
May 30th 2011, 15:16
Ahhhhh... I really enjoyed that 4,000,000 euro beer this weekend. My only disappointment was that Man Utd lost to Barca :-(
Darren Mizzi
May 30th 2011, 15:15
@Laura Falzon
Keep the lemons I don't need them at all...maybe you should have one with some tea to relax before you post your comments.
Pity that one can no longer make a non-political, unbiaised comment these days without people like you jumping to conclusions.
In any case thanks for the lemons....but I think you may find them more useful!
mario spiteri
May 30th 2011, 13:48
Dawk ta' BLA RAGUNI ghadhom ma hadux lezzjoni tajba....anke il-Filippini se jaraw li dritt civili bhal dan jidhol f'pajjizhom...
Hawn Malta l-brigata tal-astinenza w gwejjef ohra bhal xi Roamer ghadhom jridu jifthu mohhom ghar realta' tal-hajja!
Mario Spiteri
Ms D Galea
May 30th 2011, 12:59
Good luck for the Philippines. One hopes the country is rich enough to be able to afford the social services burden that will invariably follow the introduction of divorce.
David Caruana
May 30th 2011, 13:43
Boo-hoo! sour grapes!
Ms B Cassar
May 30th 2011, 14:03
Hu tazza te bil-lumi hi, forsi tigi f'tieghek fl-ahhar. Xieraq int xi wahda tghix fuq is-social services issa.
Mr Joe Mamo
May 30th 2011, 14:33
Ma nahsibx li dik raguni tajba sinjura. Ghandna nkuna maturi bizzejjed biex nifmu li din is-sistema ghandha vantaggi aktar minn zvantaggi.
Mr Alex Buds
May 31st 2011, 00:09
Money is not everything Ms Galea. Freedom is everything.
Mr M Vella***
May 30th 2011, 12:34
To the YES campaigners,Thank You
You have brought Malta out of the Limbo we were in for decades!
IVA stands for LOVE. Le stands for losers.
Simon Scerri
May 30th 2011, 12:15
Whatever happened to Joe Zammit? The timesonline will never be the same again without his utter hogwash. I miss him. Or perhaps it was a her, Josephine? We will never know. Sad.
Mr Joe Morana
May 30th 2011, 15:29
I am confident that a significant number of Maltese who voted YES do contribute significant amounts towards Church charities and will continue to do so despite the recent contestations? pls thallatx il-hass mal ....!!!
Mr R Calleia
May 30th 2011, 15:33
I was going to say the SAME ! Dove sei Signor Joe Zammit ???
Victor Pulis
May 30th 2011, 16:44
One thing is for certain. If things keep going like this he's going to be very lonely when he dies!!!
Ms R Lia
May 30th 2011, 12:03
* ESKLUSSIVA *
irridu Refendum iehor!
Il-poplu Malti ghandu jivvota fuq din il-mistoqsija:
"Taqbel li l-isitituzzjonijiet tal-Knisja f'Malta fejn fihom jigu mghejjuna eluf ta' persuni, jigu mhallsa mill-POPLU KOLLU, (inkluz mit-taxxi) u mhux minn dawk li jghinu lill-Knisja biss?"
Din tkun gustizzja socjali, u jekk hemm bzonn jizdiedu t-taxxi ha jizidiedu, pero mhux gust li l-problemi socjali tal-pajjiz ihallsu ghalihom biss "il-fildili" kattolici Maltin! Il-problemi socjali huma piz fuq il-pajjiz kollu, u mhux fuq dawk li jmorru u jghinu lill Knisja BISS.
Mhux gust li l-problemi socjali ta' Malta jigu mitfughha biss fuq "il-fidili".. . Dawn ghandhom jigu mhallsa wkoll minn dawk li ma jaghtux centezmu lill-karita' jew isitituzzjonijiet tal-knisja. Totalment mhux fair li "l-fidili" biss ihallsu ghax inkella veru qed ikunu fidili.
Nistenna l-gazzetti progressivi u liberali biex jibdew kampanja biex titwettaq din il-haga. Il-flus li jaghtu l"fidili" lill knisja imbghad jintuzaw ghall-missjoni u biex twettaq il-hidma taghha pastorali u mhux biss biex jigu mghejjuna l-problemi socjali, kif qed jigri bhalissa.
David Caruana
May 30th 2011, 13:46
Int tassew minalik li s-servizzi socjali qed jithallsu mill-offerti ta' waqt il-quddies?! lol!
Joseph Borg
May 30th 2011, 14:07
Inti qatt smajt bil-bank APS, dan minn fejn gie , mis-sema, u x`jghamel dan bebbux jew miljuni ta`Euro.
Mr Andrew Grech
May 30th 2011, 15:06
Ms. Lia,
bir-rispett kollhu, kemm int certa min dak li qeda tghid?
Jien mrobbi Malta, iddotrinat kattoliku imma prattikant miniex, gifieri mhux wiehed mill-'fidili', ma dana kollu karita dejjem ghamilt mal proxxmu, u ma nahsibx li trid tkun kattoliku biex taghmel hekk.
Li taghti u tghin lill-proxxmu nahseb li hi xi haga li tista tigi minn kullhadd irrispettivament mill-fidi taghhom.
Alavolja nirrikonoxxi li hawn hafna ghaqdiet li jahdmu u jaghmlu hafna gid f'pajjizna dan qatt m'ghandu jigi iffurzat fuq il-poplu b'mod ta taxxi, ga la ahna inhallsu ghas-servizzi socjali ghal dan il-ghan.
Nixtieq wkoll li naghmel punt regward il-kritika tieghek lejn il-progressivi u l-liberali, kun ghaf li kieku ma kienx ghal nies bhal dawn kieku ma sarx progress fid-dinja, u kieku minitiex qeda tgawdi il-liberta u l-protezzjoni ta ligijiet li jpoggu l-individwu f'socjeta ta nies igwali u bi drittijiet li jhalluna liberi ghal konkwista tas-serenita fil-hajja (biex inpoggihielek fi ftit kliem).
Mr Joe Morana
May 30th 2011, 16:58
Mr Joe Morana
Today, 15:29
I am confident that a significant number of Maltese who voted YES do contribute significant amounts towards Church charities and will continue to do so despite the recent contestations?
Gino Caruana
May 30th 2011, 18:13
GINO CARUANA
INT OK JEW ?
Mr Tony Camilleri
May 30th 2011, 21:53
Ms R Lia,
Mela sewwa, skond int il-flus li jingabru minmghand il-fidili ghandhom jintuzaw ghall-missjoni u mhux ghall-Maltin.
Tajba w tahraq jghid tal-bigilla.
Mela ma tafx li l-karità tibda mid-dar?
Joe Fenech
May 31st 2011, 13:31
Here's another one who thinks that the Church is the government!
Mr G Vella
May 30th 2011, 11:59
@Darren Mizzi Interpreting the significance of abstentions is pretty much always a futile exercise. To my mind anybody who abstained would have had no serious objection to divorce legislation being introduced into the country as otherwise he would have gone out and voted No.
Adrian Cardona
May 30th 2011, 11:44
@Darren Mizzi
Ah, but you see, since more people said Yes then No, then divorce must be for the common good hux ;-)
Mr Charles Bayliss
May 30th 2011, 12:27
Matehmatics are not done your way Mr Mizzi. Only those votes were were registered as valid constitute an election result. Those who abstained/not-collected votes/invalidated their vote said that they do not care. Thus the result is that of those people wo cared to vote either Yes or No. Like in General Elections etc. The Final Result 53% Yes 47% No - 0% for those who did not give a damn
George Debono
May 30th 2011, 12:51
Darren
Exactly this argument was used by Alfred Sant to try to deny the result of the EU referendum after a quick calculation on the back of an envelope.
This is a rubbish argument. And it was even more so in Sant's case as he also included dead people !
Ms B Cassar
May 30th 2011, 14:07
Dawn qalu li min irid id-divorzju huwa minoranza ta. 54% minoranza, sabih kieku, fil-holm taghhom imma.
Mn ghandu bzonn id-divorzju huwa minoranza imma min mhux egoist u jahseb f'haddiehor u xeba mill-knisja u il-mod kif iggib ruhha huwa maggoranza, u assoluta nghid.
Mr William Flynn
May 30th 2011, 11:41
That is the icing on the cake if l'l ol' Malta has given an impetus to 90 million people under the heel of the Catholic bishops in the Philippines to give the Catholic church dictatorship the flick.
Can Saturday’s win possibly get any sweeter? Ratzinger is having another annus terribilis. Ad multos annos. (terribilis).
Darren Mizzi
May 30th 2011, 11:29
Using the figures below:
Total Number of People who could vote: 304,000 (approx)
Total Number of People who did not collect vote: 22,000 (approx)
Total Number of People who were eligible to vote: 282,000 (approx)
Total Number of People who voted: 232,691 (actual)
Total Number of Valid Votes: 230,518 (actual)
Total Number of YES Votes: 122,547 (actual)
Total Number of NO Votes: 107,971 (actual)
Total Number of Invalid Votes: 2,173 (actual)
on could deduce that:
92.76% of the country could actually vote
72% of the country actually voted
40.31% of the country (in relation to the 304,000) only voted YES
35.52% of the country (in relation to the 304,000) only voted No
Total number of People who did not collect the vote, did not vote or voted invalid: 73,482
The figures above show that whilst the 52.67% may seem like a YES majority, considering that only 72% voted, in retrospect neither the NO nor the YES have the majority (i.e. 50% + 1 vote) because not all the country voted. As one can see the YES have around 40% and the NO have 35%.
The point is that whilst there are more people who want divorce that those who don't - there is no more than half the country on either side. Also the fact that there were a lot of invalid votes, a significant number of people who did not vote and a considerable number of uncollected ones its an indicator that more study or information was required.
Mr Victor Laiviera
May 30th 2011, 11:44
That reasoning has been used in ALL referenda ever held in Malta to argue that nobody really won - from Integration, to Independenhce to EU entry.
It may have some basis in abstract logic but none in practice.
Mr d. attard
May 30th 2011, 11:48
Please spare us further embarrasment - the bishops said that we were oblidged to vote and they obviously worked for a no vote - therefore by your calciulations nearly 196,000 maltese and gozitans disobeyed the church...This was a resounding yes vote, even more than the 53% suggests...now get real and contribute for the church that finds its spiritual feet in ditching its political agendas...yes to spirituality - no to politics of this world
Adrian Cachia
May 30th 2011, 11:50
Good one!
Mr Patrick Zammit
May 30th 2011, 11:51
Mr D Mizzi
Using the same arguments, one could also conclude that the Gonzi Govt did not get the majority of all eligible voters. Would that make it unfit to govern?
You have left out from your equation, the 3,000 or so new voters since the Govt saw fit to use the old Electoral Register instead of the updated one.
Mr M Mamo
May 30th 2011, 12:11
pfft enough with the old register thing ... this has been done in all elections. give me one election where this did not happen!
Ramon Casha
May 30th 2011, 12:13
"The point is that whilst there are more people who want divorce that those who don't - there is no more than half the country on either side."
Faulty reasoning. Those who chose not to vote cannot be counted either way. Chances are, if you were to force each and every person to vote at gunpoint, you might find that there was an even bigger swing towards "yes". in any case, they chose to be irrelevant to this referendum.
"Also the fact that there were a lot of invalid votes, a significant number of people who did not vote and a considerable number of uncollected ones its an indicator that more study or information was required."
The conclusion is a non-sequitur. To me, the large number who did not vote shows that the religious terror campaign was successful, and many people who knew that the right choice was "Yes", were scared to cast that vote so they stayed home.
Mr Jeffrey Mallia
May 30th 2011, 12:16
Mr Mizzi, with your calculations, your party ( ie GonziPN ) should not be running this country, because they were'nt elected by more than 50% of our population.....And that's why the PL was right reguarding the EU referendum.
Mr Charles Grima
May 30th 2011, 12:17
Of all the people I know who did not vote, a very high majority of these people abstained from voting because they could not decide between yes and no.
So that gives no advantage to either camp. Everybody in the register could vote. The fact that they did not is also a sign. That they would not make a choice, either being undecided, or uncaring.
From those voting, the majority said YES... how difficult can that be to understand?
David Caruana
May 30th 2011, 12:24
Give up! You sound like Dr.Sant after the EU referendum.
Go get yourself a drink, and chill.
Laura Falzon
May 30th 2011, 12:33
trid xi lumija jaqaw ?
Daniel Azzopardi (Naxxar)
May 30th 2011, 13:05
Dear Darren Mizzi,
Thank you for all the trouble you took to calculate all those values. However, only one percentage interests me and a lot of others, namely that 52.67% voted yes - thank God.
Mr Adrian Borg Cardona
May 30th 2011, 14:49
Mr. Mizzi and other anti-divorce people: I am glad to see that NOW you are all for the rights of the minority. Until a few days ago, these did not exist in your head - in fact, some of you made it very clear that the minorities wishes or rights should be ignored. It seems that now the shoe is on the other foot. You see how lovely democracy is: majority rule with respect to minority rights.
Roberta Sciberras
May 30th 2011, 15:04
What a total waste of time and energy! ( L-anqas haqq il-hin li hlejt minn hajtek taghmel is-somom.)
By your reasoning Malta should never have joined the EU because Partnership won!!
Your post simply shows you haven't a clue about how referenda work.
Darren Mizzi
May 30th 2011, 15:12
To all:
First of all I did not mention politics yet you were so hasty to say that I am siding with either of the parties. To your disappointment I am not siding with any of the parties as this matter of divorce has no colour.
Secondly, you were also all jumping to the conclusion by saying that I am against divorce when I did not say that either.
I simply stated some statistical facts and that is all. So whoever said that I side with GonziPN, PN, LP or any other party and whoever said I am pro or against divorce is wrong because that was not my comment. I think you should all stop and relax before writing.
Mr Tony Camilleri
May 30th 2011, 21:35
Darren Mizzi
Did you consider that many of those who did not collect their voting document or did not vote were going to vote yes and did not vote because they feared what the various Church authorities were threatening them with and yet thsy did not want to vote No and abstained?
What about those who were not in Malta for various reasons and could not vote?
We had Mons Gouder calling all those who did not vote irresponsible.
How could he possibly know the reasons for these people not voting?
Divine inspiration perhaps?
Is this the way to treat people and bring them back into the fold?
Ramon Casha
May 30th 2011, 11:18
So THAT'S where Joe Zammit went!
Joseph Camilleri
May 30th 2011, 11:12
"Dear Philippinos, join the fight between god and the devil. Victory is guaranteed....." etc etc
connie sullivan
May 30th 2011, 21:38
The church is part of our society, and like all other people has right to express her feeling about this issue. The church has right not to agree with divorce. Everyone has his own/her opinion which we can express freely - and again I say - so those the church - but it seems that people want to be democratic when it pleases them. The people have voted in favour of divorce - now it is time to move forward and the church to continue the work in having stronger families. And what is so wrong with the apology!!!!. Some people hurt the church in the last weeks - some people might have felt hurt by the Church - as simply as that. Now live goes on...
Mr Ernest Vella
May 30th 2011, 10:59
La nigu fejn dak li sejjahtu ba baw umbat tkellmu...Liema huma d-drittijiet civili li kien qed jirreferi ghalihom Joseph Muscat. Issa li imminajna l-Knisja nistghu indahhlu kollox...u bhal Spanja ha nigu...mhux problema la l-poplu jrid hekk. Il-Knisja ha titghallem mill-izbalji taghha, u ha tohrog iktar b'sahhitha.
Ms Manquareiel de Caveden
May 30th 2011, 15:58
Knisja iktar b'saħħitha? Kompli oħlom.
Mr Leslie Courte
May 30th 2011, 10:38
those who were not influenced by political parties did like me. THEY DID NOT VOTE!
Mr Robert Agius
May 30th 2011, 10:56
erm...who are you to speak for others? They call that arrogance.
Mr Andrew Grech
May 30th 2011, 10:59
speak for yourself.
Bernard Mamo
May 30th 2011, 11:05
Errrr... No I didn't do like you... I voted according to my concience. Why do you think everyone has political blinkers?
Mr Chris Gatt
May 30th 2011, 11:16
Erm.. are you expecting applause for sitting on the fence ? LOL
Mr william cauchi
May 30th 2011, 11:19
Influenced by political parties????
The last thing on my mind when i went to vote.
You know what they call those who miss their chance to influence society with their vote, ''cannol bla krema''
Mr Victor Laiviera
May 30th 2011, 11:48
I hope you know what you are saying, Mr Courte. You are implying that those who are not influenced by political parties have no ideas of their own and do not participate in important consultations like a referendum.
Not a nice concept.
Mr Neil Dent
May 30th 2011, 11:54
Pardon!? I was definitely not influenced by either side of the debate, nor by any political party. Neither were the vast majority of the people I come into daily contact with, but we all went out to vote! And to add in the political slant that many are keen on, many of those voted against the party they support, and will continue to support!
Mr Alfred Grech
May 30th 2011, 12:16
Leslie, it is the duty of each citizen to cast his or her vote in an election or referendum. If you didn't then you made a mistake.
Mr Joe Mamo
May 30th 2011, 14:35
then you are irresponsible
Mr JOSEPH ZAMMIT
May 30th 2011, 15:40
That means YOU ARE INFLUENCED BY POLITICAL PARTIES.
The issue was beyond political parties and much more beyond religious beliefs. Wake up, man.
Ms Manquareiel de Caveden
May 30th 2011, 15:57
How pathetic when one considers that someone like you actually has a vote! Oh and by the way, speak for yourself! I voted because I wanted a positive change for my country, and we got it!!
Mr Tony Camilleri
May 30th 2011, 21:39
Mr Leslie Courte you are so detached from reality that you did not even see that people nowadays do not care a hoot about what the political parties and their leaders tell them and vote according to how they fell is in their best interest.
Do you think that the leader of the political party I support is going to tell me how to vote on any issue? No way.
Mr Lawrence Calleja
May 30th 2011, 10:29
I will be proud if Malta was the last country that introduced divorce. We are not a flock of sheep who do what others do irrespective of whether they are right or wrong. Having said this, it is evident that the majority of people who voted for this referendum have proved to be under the list of 'flock of sheep', i.e. doing what both leading political leaders told them to do. The majority did not bother whether the Yes or No would win but it was purely for political reasons. I myself did not vote for this referendum. For me it was just a waste of time and money. I think the times of Malta journalists have other better news to cover. I sincerely hope that journalists will grow up and start giving us professional news coverage and not according to their personal beliefs.
Ms S Micallef
May 30th 2011, 10:39
Mr. Calleja. go back to your cave and stay there. The journalists, especially those of The Times deserve a big thank you for keeping us fully updated on all that was said.
You have no right calling others sheep because they decided to vote yes. I voted yes and do not support any of the political parties. It is equivalent to me calling you a sheep for voting no fearing you might burn in hell as the Church told you.
Mr Robert Gatt
May 30th 2011, 10:39
Of course you are a flock of sheep. Bee, bee.
Ara jien, jien brigant.
Bye bye.
Cornelius Murphy
May 30th 2011, 10:51
Precisely, Mr Calleja, we are not a flock of sheep any more. We have thought four ourselves, turned our backs on our shepherds and wagged our little fluffy tails at them in defiance!
Joseph Mizzi
May 30th 2011, 10:56
Have you ever tried to consider the parable of the lost sheep from the opposite perspective? Maybe the sole sheep was not lost at all, and it was the master's flock that was unwittingly ambling towards the edge of the precipice.
Malta until yesterday was the only sheep on the right track and the rest of the world was doomed to eternal chaos!
Mr K Pullicino
May 30th 2011, 11:03
@Cornelius Murphy: Ar'hemm ħejj; għandek biex tiftaħar. Defiance for the sake of defiance...
Patrick Sammut
May 30th 2011, 11:16
REALLY !!!! ''' We are not a flock of sheep ''' ----- very funny ---- so when the church tells you that you are sheep and God is your shepherd you except it --- and when you decide that you are the wolf , than you forget all about sheep !!
Very funny , but this is what church is based on - fairy tales to keep the sheep or better known as '' fidili'' under her control !!
Mr Michael Buhagiar
May 30th 2011, 11:23
mr s micallef. Kid yourself you wont be burn in hell. kid yourself that there is no God. Kid yourself that you can do what you like, no values, no morals no nothing. How many people like you I have seen these last years in hospital beds, dying a miserable death here on earth. kid yourself that you will shout my lord my lord at the last breath of yours. and you will be guaranteed heaven. What a waste of life.
Mr Marius Zulgis
May 30th 2011, 11:39
Mr Calleja - you have the right to an opinion and although I disagree with you I have no objection to you voicing this opinion. In the same vein I voted "Yes" because, although I have no need of divorce personally I felt I had no right to forcibly stop those who do.
Sadly you and your ilk, after receiving a resounding trashing at the polls, do not appear to have learned this most valuable lesson, but as time moves on I am sure more and more people will.
Mr Michael Debono
May 30th 2011, 12:14
Gozitans follow their leader . If he jumps from the ship into the sea they folow suit like the Panurge sheep. One probably the leader jumped overboard and was followed by the remaining flock. Giovanna led the flock and the rest followed her. Panurge was the name.
P.S. there were some exceptions.
Ms S Micallef
May 30th 2011, 12:23
@M. Buhagiar - I live as a Catholic in my everyday life and do my best to apply my Catholic values in everything i do during the day.
I'm not an armchair Catholic, judging people, pointing and threatening acting like a Catholic then show no compassion or kindness towards others.
You prove you are a real Catholic with actions not words. It's high time you learn and apply the above.
Mr Matthew Grima
May 30th 2011, 12:24
"How many people like you I have seen these last years in hospital beds, dying a miserable death here on earth." I've seen devout catholics go through the same, your point being?
David Caruana
May 30th 2011, 12:30
U ieqfu daqsxejn! Some people never give up! The YES vote won, deal with it!
Malta is on a journey towards the 21st century, and whether you like it or not, 53% of the electorate is rowing to push the boat quicker in that direction.
Those who want to sit back and complain and whine about it, you're more than welcome to do so, we won't be waiting for you!
P.S. Lawrence Calleja, are you really suggesting that The Times of Malta is biased in favour of divorce?! Veru ma tafx x'qed tghid habib!
Ms Isabelle Luca Borg
May 30th 2011, 12:38
Mr Robert Gatt & Cornelius Murphy - your comments made my day!!! :)
@ Michael Buhagiar - No one said anything like that but scaremongering doesn't work anymore! I don't think that God is going to judge us according to this Referendum. It's not the only event in our lives where we had to make a choice so as Ms. S. Micallef said - go back to your cave and stay there!
Mr Adrian Borg Cardona
May 30th 2011, 13:07
@Mr. Buhagiar: I find your comments despicable and totally unchristian - worthy only of the inquisition. Do you know why some people die a miserable death? It is because of people who enjoy scaring others into believeing or otherwiser they go to hell.
Mr Neil Camilleri
May 30th 2011, 13:18
Mr M. Buhagiar, of all the ways to waste a life, surely the most pathetic is the life that passes one by without a moments careful examination. With just a little bit of reading and reason you could see that values and morals are not made by the church or holy book, consider these arguments.
1) Human species is about 150,000 years old, Christianity is 2000, without morals or values we would not have made it to the time of Christianity let alone after the ravages of war and disease it caused.
2) Does god do things because they are right or are they right because god does them? If the latter then you are justifying some atrocities, particularly from the old testament, that anyone with a modicum of respect for the human race would be disgusted by, let alone the supposed benevolent creator.
The answer is clearly the former, therefore ethics do not (and should not) be derived from the bible.
So you've seen a lot of people who, in their most desperate hour, with all hope gone and nothing left to lose turn to a belief in god to help them. This makes a lot of sense, people don't usually join religions from a clear headed, reasoned perspective and from a position of happiness and security in their lives. This is a strong point against religion.
Ms B Cassar
May 30th 2011, 14:11
@Michael Buhagiar
Sa ftit granet ilu kont qieghed tifrah ghal zewg ragunijiet:
1. ghax Joanne Cassar tilfet il-kaz
2. Ghax ta l-IVA tilfu il-kaz il-qorti
Sfaccatament ghedt fuq dawn il-pagni li kellek gurnata sabiha hafna.
Ghal grazzja t'alla ir-rebha tal-bierah tatek ir-risposta li alla ma jhallasx bin-nhar ta gimgha u li kull min jifrah bid-deni ta haddiehor sa fl-ahhar isib kappell jigieh. Nispera li il-kappell li sibt il-bierah jixraqlek u titatta bih ghax mhux biss hadt ir-risposta li xerqitlek imma il-poplu ura li ghal nies bhalek mhawnx post. Tridha tal-kattoliku imma anke l-ikbar musulman hu iktar kattoliku minnek. Il-bierah xhin thabbar ir-rizultat ftakart fil-kummenti tieghek li hallejt il-gimgha l-ohra li iddisgustawni u sincerament immaginajtek tnaddaf il-barriera trab li kellek fuqek. Min jidhak l-ahhar jidhak l-ahjar Mikiel.
Mr Anthony Borg
May 30th 2011, 14:20
@ Mr Michael Buhagiar - so you consider yourself a christian, sir?
Your assumption, that upon one's death-bed one turns to a god for comfort is actually true...for Roman Catholics! How could it be otherwise? From day one of our lives, we are terrorised by the "illuminati" of religion, about burning in hell for ever and ever. Then our youth is snatched and conditioned by tal-muzew and man-made doctrines are hammered into our naive minds ... with some truth and many un-truths.
You know what, Mr. Buhagiar, you can keep your god that you have created in your image, but please let others live normal lives as they deem fit.
Ms Manquareiel de Caveden
May 30th 2011, 15:55
Kemm hawn min hu mdejjaq għax IRBAĦNAAA!! Ja qatta fundamentalisti, nissuġġerilkom titilqu minn Malta u tmorru tgħixu l-Vatikan... dan mhux postkom iktar, ħejju t-triq għal Malta ġdida, mibnija fuq rispett għad-drittijiet umani ta' kulħadd u mhux sovverżjoni ta' grupp reliġjuż fuq l-Istat. Malta mhix Stat tal-Papiet imma pajjiż indipendenti!!
Mr Tony Camilleri
May 30th 2011, 21:50
Mr Michael Buhagiar how long did the Church preach that there was the LIMBU where the unbaptized babies and others who were not purified and had some venial sins were to spend time until they were cleansed from their sins?
Now the Church has said that the Limbu does not exist.
Do you know why people on their deathbed are terrified like you said? Because they were not told that God is benevolent, takes pity and wants everyone to be saved, but they have been indoctrinated and terrified all their life that God is always after his pound of flesh.
How much peoples property ended up as Church property because a dying person's bed was shaken and the dying person was made to believe that the devil had come for him but his soul would be saved and he will shoot straight to heaven if he left his property to the Church? How many families were robbed of their property in similar cases?
Please choose the reason of your report below: