Christian Peregin
Andre' Camilleri: 'No cure for divorce'
Anti-divorce movement chairman Andre Camilleri tells Christian Peregin solutions proposed by every European country have made the problem worse.
Recently we asked if your campaign is being funded by the Church and the Nationalist Party. But we didn’t get an answer. Is it?
We get help from the sources we ask for help.
Did you ask the Church or the PN?
We did not ask specifically...
Did they contribute? Do you deny they gave you funding?
We received a lot of help from people who have certain political and religious beliefs.
What about the PN as an organisation and the Church as an institution?
We’ve already said that the first premises offered to us was from a parish. We used it and still do. But the bulk of our funding is coming via SMS donations.
You said things will be made public after the referendum, so eventually we’re going to know if the Church gave you a cheque.
We will publish what we spent and where it came from.
One of your main arguments is that you do not want a no-fault divorce. Would you accept a fault-based system of divorce?
We’re saying that at this point in time, with the strength of Maltese families, let’s not talk about divorce, let’s invest in the families we have, because the government has been absent from all this unfortunately.
In separations and divorce fault does not determine whether you can leave your partner or not. It guides the discussion on maintenance and succession. If that discussion is already settled through separation, as the Bill says, doesn’t it become redundant to argue against divorce because it is not fault-based?
You’re assuming that all separations end up before a judge who decrees who pays maintenance to whom.
I’m talking about legal separations.
Yes, but there are other types of separation. There are people who just walk out of a marriage, and with the law as proposed, after four years they can go and ask for a divorce.
But the Bill clearly states that if you have not been legally separated, you will have to go through a legal separation. And anyway, even in separation law there is such a thing as a no-fault separation.
The divorce law allows one party to impose it...
...As is done in separation. What’s the difference?
You may have a party that does not want divorce.
You may have a party that does not want separation or annulment.
But in separation that marriage remains.
On paper, though.
It is there. Neither of the parties can marry again.
But do you think someone should be able to prevent another person from leaving them? Today a person can get up and leave their spouse – that’s separation.
By enacting this divorce law the state would allow the party – even the one who caused the break-up – to not only separate from his spouse, but actually impose a divorce on him or her after a period of four years so they can remarry.
And that’s something you feel is unjust.
Initially they said the state cannot impose on people to stay married if they don’t want to. The imposition is, on the other hand, here in this law.
Like it is in separation... At the beginning of the campaign you said divorce could be a “solution” for some individuals, but the common good goes beyond any individual needs. Now your campaigners say it is not a solution. Is it a solution for these couples?
Of course. As I said there are thousands if not millions all over the world that have divorced and settled. But can we ignore a situation where the second marriage, all over, has a higher rate of failure than the first marriage? And the third marriage has an even higher rate than the second?
What are you basing this one on?
These are real facts and statistics. When we started explaining these, the pro-divorce lobby shouted us down and said you can’t talk about people as though they are numbers. But those numbers are useful for this discussion.
If the legislator could give them a remedy without impacting other marriages, I would be for it as well. But this is fantasy, it doesn’t work that way.
Initially you said divorce increases marital breakdown. Do you have statistics to prove this is happened in all the other countries in the world which you claim to have studied?
All over... Italy... And we’ve published these...
Ireland is a good country to go by because divorce was introduced fairly recently and, like Malta, it has a Catholic tradition. The ESRI study shows that 10 years since its introduction there’s absolutely no evidence to show it influenced the marital breakdown rate.
Does it mention the rate of cohabitation? How much has it gone up?
Since 1986, not 1997, it’s gone up by 400 per cent.
That is an indicator that people, after divorce was introduced, found marriage irrelevant. If the lifelong commitment disappears, people will opt for cohabitation rather than marriage.
But that’s happening in Malta too as well as the rest of the world. People are opting for cohabitation before marriage. It doesn’t mean an increase in cohabitation would be detrimental to society.
That’s the experience of England. Cohabitation has hurt the UK.
But in Ireland, has divorce increased marital breakdown?
Yes, it has.
The studies show it hasn’t.
Define marital.
Breakdown of a marriage.
When you don’t have marriages, of course you’ll have a decrease in marital breakdown. People have opted for more cohabitation, less marriage. So less marital breakdown. But are the cohabitees happily together? I can send you another study published by the Iona institute about Ireland which explains all of these.
I have the Iona study here. It says marital breakdown has actually slowed down.
Because there are fewer marriages.
What are the other effects of divorce which are so detrimental to society?
The studies of what happened to families and marriages after the introduction of divorce show, invariably, that family and marriage have suffered, not improved.
Suffered at a faster rate?
Yes. A study conducted over more than 20 years by two academics shows that divorce, particularly no-fault divorce, contributed to the increase in marital breakdown.
I have that study here too. What it says is that in 50 years divorce became easier to obtain across Europe. And that – making it easier – is what can account for a 20 per cent increase in divorce. But that takes into consideration places like Portugal where you can now get a divorce online within an hour. It’s not talking about a four-year period divorce.
The pro-divorce lobby (last) week finally admitted there is no guarantee that it will remain four years. Every country started with high barriers to divorce... But it gets eroded. Even in Ireland there’s a lobby to reduce it and I believe they will succeed.
When you’re opposing a solution which the rest of the world provided to its citizens you would be expected to come up with an alternative. What is the alternative to divorce?
You cannot propose a solution to every problem. The solution offered by every other countryin Europe has worsened the problem.
In 1973 Malta was discussing the decriminalisation of homosexuality and adultery. Back then, the Nationalist Party, which opposed this change, used similar arguments you are making today. They said, and I quote, the situation of the Maltese family did not “warrant the proposed changes” and that instead we should “protect the Maltese family”. Don’t you think you’re on the wrong side of history?
Absolutely not.
Do you think divorce will be introduced some day?
I would put the question differently. Can we remain the only European country (without divorce), if it pays our society?
Do you think we can live in a situation where people are prevented from remarrying after their marriage breaks down?
I’m talking about helping people not to have a marriage breakdown.
But what about those who will break up anyway?
If divorce is going to cause others to break up, and that’s the evidence overseas, I would look at the wider picture.
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Mr Joe Xuereb
May 25th 2011, 00:54
Interesting that countries which do not breathe religion, what god/christ said, grant divorce as a matter of course.
Interesting that countries which breathe religion (the rc variety) but maybe not all the time, have accommodated divorce.
And then one gets Malta, a society where quite a percentage still wear their belief on their sleeve. And a sizeable percentage that do not. Hence the tension. I await the referendum result, of course I do. But whatever the outcome, the situation will keep going on as it has been for quite a while now. Separations, cohabitations, fornications. This will go on and nobody can stop it. Some countries do have laws, harsh ones, against adultery. Ironically, these countries also allow divorce. The mantra is (and patronising with it), inform yourself and make the most of your privelege to cast your vote. The casting is simple enough. It is the self-informing that is the bummer. I might decide not to vote. I can always go to confession afterwards when everything is forgiven. And if he makes me promise not to do 'it' again, I'd say, 'geez a break! we've just had a bloomin' referendum. How many more do you want?!
Etienne Farrugia
May 23rd 2011, 10:47
"le, ma naqbilx ma' l-introduzzjoni tad-divorzju f' pajjizina ghax inhoss li dan jista jdghajjef is-sisien tas-socjeta Maltija, il-familja,
Ilni nitkellem u niktebbl-aktar mod car kontra d-divorzju ghal xhur shah, kemm f' din il-gazzetta, f' gazzetti ohra, kif ukoll fuq ir-radju! Imma ghal Glenn dan ma jghodd ghal xejn, l-aqwa s-'sorsi infurmati tajjeb li jghid li jahseb li ghandu."
____________________________
"Mhux bizzejjed li l-Prim Ministru qabad u hareg b' din tad-divorzju minghajr ma kellu d-dicenza li jaghmel imqar l-icken riferenza ghaliha fil-programm elettorali li pprezenta qabel l-elezzjoni li rebah fl-1996? "
Jeffrey Pullicino Orlando - Article titled "Divorzju" on In-Nazzjon of Friday 29th May 1998 - page 12
So it seems to be that easy for JPO to make such a U-turn on his principles, what tells me that after introducing this so call "responsible" divorce the next step would not be for example lobbying to remove the four year separation clause, or one of the various "guaranteed rights" he says are so important in the proposed law. Once again Dr. JPO, I think I'll take the advice of people with firmer principles and policies.
Etienne Farrugia
May 23rd 2011, 09:54
"Izda meta tabib jmur ghandu pazjent bi skalda go saqajh jipprova jnehhilu l-iskalda mhux jaqtaghlu siequ barra . Ma nistghux, biex nghinu minoranza ta' mizzewgin li ghaz-zwieg taghhom m' hemx tama nipperikolaw mijiet ta' koppji ohra.
Hu Fatt li fis-socjetajiet tal-Punent id-divorzju zdied b' mod allarmanti f' dawn l-ahhar ghxrin sena. Dan ma kienx dovut ghal xi bidla radikali fil-mod kif jittrattaw lil xulxin il-mizzewgin . In-natura umana ma tinbidilx b' mod daqstant drastiku fuq medda ta' ftit snin. Iz. zieda hi rizultatta' mentalita divorzista li dahlet minhabba l-effett tal-medja u l-accessibbilta ghad-divorzju."
Jeffrey Pullicino Orlando - Article titled "LE" on In-Nazzjon of Friday 29th February 1997 - page 16
and I should by guided by people like JPO which due personal circumstances changes his opinion so drastically about such important issues of national interest - No thank you
Mr Alex Buds
May 23rd 2011, 08:06
Vote YES. Please do not impose your religion on everybody else. Malta is a free country and not everybody is Catholic. Besides most Catholic countries allow divorce.
Vincent Mercieca
May 23rd 2011, 08:05
The more I hear the “No” camp’s views the more I get convinced to vote “YES”.
Mr John Cassar
May 23rd 2011, 07:34
Well done to the Christian Peregin for the manner in which he conducted the interview.
No wonder ZbD did not want to speak to journalists when possible. It's convenient to hide behind misleading billboards.
This interview presents no solutions except to persevere a status quo. This is not acceptable any longer and a YES vote is really what is needed next Saturday.
Mr C Muscat
May 23rd 2011, 02:56
I hope that it is clear that the safeguards for children from the first marriage is becoming practically nil and for sure it is much less guaranteed in divorce than in separation. In the divorce law the four years duration is nowhere specifically stated how and when to start and this leaves the children from the first marriage clearly not protected....
Mr M Borg
May 23rd 2011, 09:52
Children and wives will be the main losers because of this divorce bill. Because of this " responsible no-fault "
divorce many marriages will be broken.
Wives left on their own with children and without adequate maintenance will be forced into cohabitaion .
They will be force into a vicious circle , wherein they will be used, abused and " thrown away " together with their children.
They will be forced to live their life like the " batteren woman " on IVAs billboard.
If families really want the good of their daughters they should vote No for divorce.
Mario Scicluna
May 23rd 2011, 12:24
@Mr M Borg
The first battered wife, the first battered or abused children that will come my way , I will re-direct them to you lot of the 'NO' camp, then we will see what solutions you come up with. Offer them a Bible as consolation, or 'Ahfirlu miskin' Perhaps you will lift them yourself mill 'qabza fid-dlam'!! By protecting the abuser husband and let him get away with it !!! Hypocrites.
Mr Joseph Bonnici
May 22nd 2011, 22:43
Mr.Camilleri, you made up my mind. Definitely voting YES.
Mr Alistaire Gill
May 22nd 2011, 22:38
If you are Maltese and can afford you may get a divorce from a foreign country.
If you are Maltese working abroad, you may get a divorce from the country you are working in.
If you are Maltese married to a foreigner you may get a divorce from the country of your partner.
If you are Maltese and both of you are non Catholic and one of you turns Catholic you can apply to the Pope to have your marriage dissolved (not annuled) under the Pauline & Petrine Privilage.
If you are Maltese one of the partners can apply to have your marriage annulled.
If you are Maltese and both of you agree to fabricate a reason for annulment you can apply for annulment.
If you are Maltese and would like to help those whose marriage went to the rocks and would like to have another chance to live happily as you are vote YES.
If you are Maltese and 'say' that you care for those whose marriage has gone to the rocks but do not want to offer any solution vote NO.
If you are Maltese remember that someone sometime may steal your husband or your wife.. and then?
Mr Victor Laiviera
May 22nd 2011, 22:29
The above shows that what the NO camp object to most is not the actual breakup of the marriage, but the fact that the souses could re-marry. So much for their love of the family.
They simply want to make sure that whoever makes a mistake and marries the wrong person has to suffer for it for the rest of her or his life.
Mr Alex Ciantar
May 22nd 2011, 20:55
I have just been sent this Poem and it really say it all.......
Ahna kontra d-divorzju, U ma jdawwarna xej’ Ghax ahna sejrin tajjeb, Ghax iz-zwieg taghna OK. Ahna kontra d-divorzju U jalla nibqghu hekk, Ghax, kif jghidu l-Inglizi: “I’m all right … so fuck you Jack!” U ’k iz-zwieg tieghek falla U issa sseparajt, Heqq, hu pacenzja qalbi… Orqod wiccek mal-hajt. Jew mur applika l-Kurja Biex tholl is-sagrament; Forsi, wara zewg sekli, Jaghtuk l-annullament. Ahna nimxu mal-Knisja! Divorzju LE … ghal hadd, Jekk trid, tibzax, mur poggi Imma cans iehor: QATT. U jekk hu dnub li tpoggi Le, le, m’hemmx oggezzjoni, Ghax daqt se nghaddu ligi B’risq il-koabitazzjoni. Inkella mur l-Italja …. Londra … jew ma nafx fej’ U gib minn hemm divorzju.. Dak naccettawh … OK! Ahna kontra d-divorzju Ghax Alla dejjem maghna, U Gouder kwazi daqsu! Il-Kurja t-tarka taghna! Ghax issa anki l-Madonna Giet biex parir taghtik U elf messagg tibghatlek Bis-sahha t’Angelik. Semmietlu t-terremoti U elf flagell fil-kju, Sa qaltlu biex ihaffef Imur jaghmel tattoo! Ha rreggghu l-arlogg lura U nghixu qalbenin Iz-zmien tal-Isqof Gonzi Iz-zmien tas-snin sittin. U dik l-avukatessa Le … m’ghandha ebda jedd Fit-Tribunal isservi … Naghtuha l-interdett. Il-Gvern, l-Istat u l-Knisja Dawn huma l-Gawhra taghna, Dawn huma haga wahda! Mur tnejjek jekk m’intix maghna. Jekk tghid IVA ghad-divorzju Mhux biss tmur kontra l-Gvern, Imm’ inti tkun qed taqta’ Biljett dritt ghall-infern.
Ms G Schembri
May 22nd 2011, 20:53
Maybe Andre' Camilleri can tell us where Joyce Cassar and Anna Vella got my name and address from. I never gave them my name and address, so whoever provided them with my particullars breached the data protection act.
Mr Matthew Grima
May 22nd 2011, 19:50
Whenever separation was brought up, he deviated. A true politician, even though he's not a practicing one.
The statistics are false, the numbers may be correct, but they are not a direct link to divorce.
A number of people in Malta, already cohabit, a number of families are already broken. Why don't anti-divorce movement can be so kind to provide the statistics for broken marriages and cohabitation in Malta?
Ms pat muscat
May 22nd 2011, 19:34
My sister got a divorce in Italy and she is still a good Catholic. On the other hand, if in the furure, I'll get a divorce in Malta I might end up ostracised from my Catholic Church. Do Catholic values, and sins change according to latitudes and longitudes?
Mr Joseph Calleja
May 22nd 2011, 19:45
Better believe it!
Mr Matthew Grima
May 22nd 2011, 19:51
I think it's the Island Mentality.
Mr Ernest Vella
May 22nd 2011, 21:49
Jiddispjacini Ms.Muscat nahseb mhux qeghda tghid is-sewwa...it-taghlim tal-Knisja Kattolika Rumana tghid li persuna li ddivorzjat u regghet izzewget waqt li l-parti l-ohra ghada hajja, ghal Knisja din qeghda tghix f'adulterju u f'ko-abitazzjoni u ghalkemm tista tmur il-Knisja (anzi hija mhegga taghmel hekk) ma tistax titqarben ghax qeghda fid-dnub mejjet. Issa jekk titla titqarben, il-qassis ghandu jqarbinha imma dan ma jfissirx li ma tkunx hatja jekk taf li qeghda titqarben u mhux fil-grazzja t'Alla..cieo fid-dnub mejjet!!!
Mr Joe Borg
May 22nd 2011, 23:03
Yes, a good catholic living in sin according to the catholic rules if she is in an other relationship.
I' m not saying that I agree with the catholic rules, but if you don't like it then put up your own church like other people did in the past.
Please stop this hypocrisy.
Mr P BORG
May 23rd 2011, 07:35
Dear Pat...
Of course your sister obtained divorce (in Italy) and yet still she could be a good Catholic ... and even yourself can obtain (or being imposed) divorce here in Malta and be a good Catholic....
I think, should she re-marry her postiion, being a good Catholic or not would be different... and even yourself, should you re-marry your position, regarding your faith, should you care, would be the same as hers..... same latitudes and same longitudes.... just one teaching.
Nevertheless in all cases both you and your sister can be good citizens in their respective countries.
Mr M Borg
May 23rd 2011, 09:56
No Catholic values do not change according to the country
A divorce in Italy, England, America and in Tinbuktu is still a divorce and as such a sin against God.
What is intrinsically bad will always remain bad !
Mr Matthew Grima
May 23rd 2011, 10:09
It is a sin only for those who believe it Mr Borg, the rest don't care.
Mr M Borg
May 23rd 2011, 11:08
@ Matthew Grima
I am sure that a " good Catholic " will know the meaning of sin. Those who do not believe " in sin " must surely know the difference between right and wrong.
I wonder do you clasify breaking a family and going from one woman to another as something which is right ?
Mr Matthew Grima
May 23rd 2011, 14:33
The breaking of the family is done before divorce proceedings, you get divorced because of your already broken marriage.
What is wrong is keeping them together because they have no other option.
Mr Angelo Vassallo
May 22nd 2011, 19:05
@ Victor Pulis
Now that you know why Dr. Andre' Camilleri is not comfronting reporters but sending his underlings to do the job, can you enlighten us and share what you know with all of us please? In that way we will know what you are talking about.
Mr Alistaire Gill
May 22nd 2011, 18:58
After this interview one can deduce what the 'NO' group stands for.
Vote NO - for NO SOLUTION to broken marriages.
Mr Joe Borg
May 22nd 2011, 20:06
There is no solition for broken marriages.
The No movment is just saying that divorce will worsen the situation, and personally i belive so. Most of the people who divorce the first time end up divorcing from the second and the third marriage as well, causinng more pain especially to children.
The only solution is education and a proper pre marriage preparation.
Mr Malcolm Seychell
May 22nd 2011, 21:27
They don't have even 1 valid argument. A marriages is finished with seperation.
Mario Scicluna
May 23rd 2011, 09:17
During ALL the campaign, the NO(negative as always) offered NO solutions, when faced many many times with the question. Idiots who think that they can decide with my life and that of my children. Well, the No camp will NEVER decide what is best for the ones who suffered, and will suffer if Divorce will not be introduced. Hypocrites and egoistic fools who absolutely do not care or give love another chance. Imbasta jhabbtu fuq sidirhom u jtaqqbu l-ghatba tal-Muzew u istituzzjonijiet religjuzi, hasbu li ser ikollhom post fil filliera ta' quddiem tal-Genna dawn l-ghorrief. Nsew li Kristu miet ghalina b'imhabba u Paci???? fejnhi l-imhabba u l-moghdrijja lejn il-proxxmu Sur Camilleri u dik l-ohra tal muzew li twerzaq??
Mr Victor Laiviera
May 22nd 2011, 18:53
Finally Camilleri had to admit that, even in separation one party can initiate proceedings even against the wishes of the other spouse - not just in Divorce.
That destroys one of the main planks of the NO movement.
Emanuel Muscat
May 22nd 2011, 21:07
Where does it say, in Dr.A.Camilleri's exposition, that one party in a separation case cannot or should not initiate the case : better get yourself a carpenter who knows about planks.
Mr Joe Gatt
May 23rd 2011, 00:44
So Mr Shields, I presume that you are living in a Villa or an Appartment but certainly not in some sort of cocoon on our Island.
It seems that you are concerned and in agreement with an article published by the USA Christian Outlook, this states that divorce in Malta will aid Radical Islamic Agendas gaining momentum in Malta.
This suggest suppressing Maltese Minorities Basic Democratic Rights, by banning Divorce in Malta, whilst closing our eyes to an illegal Invasion, rather than preventing the situation from developing.
Whilst we appreciate your concern for our tiny Island Nation, I say no thank you so much Sir. But pls take your time and, have a closer look at what has happened to your Great Country.
Mr Lawrence Fenech
May 22nd 2011, 18:46
Mr. Camilleri, do you have a solution for separations, annulments, pogguti, and children with a doubious surname?
Mr Joseph Cauchi Senior
May 22nd 2011, 18:25
Who cares where from the “Zwieg bla Divorzu” get their funding for their campaign from and likewise goes to the “Iva Ghad-Divorzju”!
Could not the interviewer have fielded some sort of intelligent questions to Dr. Andre Camilleri rather than these non-sensical questions?
JC.
Mr Joseph Cauchi Senior
May 22nd 2011, 18:18
I am very disappointed by the questions asked by the interviewer in the sense that he hardly let Dr. Andre Camilleri to finish the answer and continuously interrupting with a new and different question in order not to let Dr. Andre Camilleri answer the question he had been asked.
Why did this interviewer invite Dr. Camilleri if his strategy was not to let Dr. Camilleri answer his question?
JC.
Mr Joe Gatt
May 22nd 2011, 17:30
Mr Camilleri,
May you please be more specific when you talk about remedies. What in your opinion, would be the best quick fix or cure to a married couple who have been legally separated and living apart for more than 4 years?
Emanuel Muscat
May 22nd 2011, 17:45
There is no quick fix and we do not want to pay for the financial consequences.
Kurt Shields
May 22nd 2011, 17:57
So is divorce the quick fix? How can it be the solution when second and third marriages have much higher breakdown rates? What can help is helping the first marriage last.
Kurt Shields
May 22nd 2011, 18:02
And I re-iterate what Mr. Camilleri intelligently stated. If divorce is introduced it probably wouldn't be long before the 4 -year condition gets reduced, especially with modern "progressive" mentality, when everyone wants a 'quick fix' for everything.
Mr Joe Gatt
May 22nd 2011, 19:54
There was actually some text missing, the following..... I hope no bright star would suggest `Super Glue` and a `Magic Wand`
@Mr Muscat...You are reluctant to pay for Maltese Nationals, a Christian and patriotic attitude perhaps?
Wether you know it, you are paying for other univited guest, and that is ok?
@Mr Shields.... More than enough comments, but no concrete action or solution, after all these years.
At the present rate, Christianity in Malta will be a minority, by the time things start rolling, and that`s the norm, so why worry.
Again, with the present imigration situation, and without the locals resorting to breeding like Rabbits, it will be a matter of time before our Majority becomes the Minority, it is after all a numbers game.
You are only thinking short term though.
Eventually with time, Divorce will be legalize here in Malta too.
Enjoy your useless and worthless crusades
Mr Joe Gatt
May 22nd 2011, 22:48
@Kurt Shields
Fact is, and we are told that this good old Earth is around 6 Billion Years old, give or take a few million.
So a quick fix after 4 years is not acceptable, so Mr Shields what would you suggest the time period should 10, 20, 30 years. I think even 40 years is not more than enough for some.
Tough, pretty soon, Divorce will be available in Malta, to those that opt for it, and I am not implying it has to be this time around.
Circumstances are changing each minute that passes by, maybe a little on the slow side, slowly but surely.
Matter of time and time will tell, my friends. Time will tell.
Mr Joe Gatt
May 23rd 2011, 08:43
@Kurt Shields
Rest assured, we appreciate your concern regarding our Moralities and related issues, but I am afraid that eventually divorce will be legalized in Malta, this has been stated even by our anti divorce Prime Minister himself.
So the anti campaign or crusade is pointless, as it is only prolonging the pain and only serve to suppress the needs of a growing minority, who will eventually gain their right to choose.
You may be residing in an apartment or perhaps a Villa, but I do not think you are isolated enough not to notice that Separation, Annulment, abbandonment ect are unfortunately on the increase here, and will continue to increase, again another unfortunate future trend.
How do you reverse this trend? I have no magic formula, all I know that it is much easier to say than to do, all this useiess talk of, we must do something about it, just goes to show that, not much has been done, and the malady has gained too much of a strong foothold.
Do not want to sound negative, but regretfully, a little late and innefective efforts.
Certainly, just lip service, suppressing right of others, good intentions and wishes will not make a difference, for permanently broken marriages.
What may be done to these People is to alleviate their pain and sorrow.
Finally `I am sure that you do realize that we are refering to Human Beings here and not statistics`
Victor Pulis
May 22nd 2011, 17:27
Now I know why Dr. Andre' Camilleri is not comfronting reporters but sending his underlings to do the job.
Emanuel Muscat
May 22nd 2011, 17:43
If you have read what are Dr.Andre' Camilleri's replies in this article,you had the privilege today of following the reasoning for why we need to reject divorce:his 'underlings' are doing a good job because they are also convinced by the logic of his answers.
Mr M Borg
May 22nd 2011, 18:42
@ Victor Pulis
Maybe you are to tired to read what Dr Andre Camilleri said , or are you afraid to read it because you know
that what he says makes a mockery of what the IVA say ?
Mr Joseph Calleja
May 22nd 2011, 17:21
Mr Camilleri, you sure know how to beat around the bush and you are not even a politician. Can you please give a straight answer? Do you or your movement receive financial help from the church? Yes or no? This is supposed to be a civil referendum untill the church and your movement took over the initiative. You turned all this into a political and religious referendum out of the blue. Are you fighting against divorce politically, religiously or are you determined to save our souls? "I’m talking about helping people not to have a marriage breakdown." Mr Camilleri, do me a huge favour and let me solve my own problems, I frankly did not ask or want your pity. In other words take care of your own family and I will take care of mine. Why is that so hard to understand? By fighting against the divorce initiative you are encouraging cohabitation, is that what you want? Trading cohabitation for the no divorce? Think about what you are doing Mr Camilleri. You don't meddle in my family affairs and I don't meddle in yours. A Yes vote would be beneficial to all, same as annulments are if they were not so expensive and run exclusively by the church. If you agree with annulment then you must agree with divorce. You cannot have one but not the other since they both dissolve a failed marriage.
Emanuel Muscat
May 22nd 2011, 17:50
Is it allowed for all citizens,organisations and instituitions to contribute to their causes? Yes, in a democratic environments.If you say no,forget political party telethons,strinas,etc.
Emanuel Muscat
May 22nd 2011, 17:56
Yes, please solve your own problem, but understand that other maltese are not necessarily going to agree with you.
Mr Joseph Calleja
May 22nd 2011, 18:12
That gives me the same answer that Mr Camilleri avoided. Again, did the anti divorce movement receive financial aid from the church? Two simple words. Yes or No.
Mr M Borg
May 22nd 2011, 19:12
@ Joseph Calleja
Question asked today to Dr D. Schembri
Do you deny the Labour Party is giving you money ?
Dr. Schembri :- It's not a question of denying they're not giving us money. If they were, I would appreciate it, but they're not unfortunately .
How about repharasing the question?
Is One giving you free air time ?
Is One using most of it's programmes to push the views of the pro-divorce ?
Are all programmes on the divorce referendum aired on One balanced or biased towards IVA ?
These are the questions we want an answer to .
Kurt Shields
May 23rd 2011, 02:08
As far as I know, it was already revealed that the church had contributed. But I fail to see the relevance, I mean honestly, should that effect your stance on divorce? Leave behind any prejudice you may hold against the church and see the holistic picture, the statistics. I am personally no church-goer, but if you champion democracy you should find no problem in discovering that the church funds the 'No' movement. It was also proven that the church would actually do better financially if divorce is introduced, since the church forks out thousands for annulment costs in cases of poor couples. Dr. Philip Sciberras, as a retired judge, must really be ashamed of himself. http://www.timesofmalta.com/articles/view/20110515/letters/What-if-we-allow-people-to-marry-again-4-.365371 The church has no conflict of interest, quite the contrary.
Kurt Shields
May 22nd 2011, 17:10
I am an Englishman currently living in Malta. I think it will be a pity if divorce is introduced in Malta too.
Regarding all the arguments surrounding divorce statistics, from my limited statistical experience, such studies would involve many confounding factors and it will always be difficult to attribute divorce as a causal factor for increased marriage breakdowns, although in reality it might actually contribute.
What baffles me however is that wherever divorce has been introduced, there has definitely been no increase in marriage rates, marriage strength and cohabitation was always on the increase. True, one cannot attribute this directly to divorce, one cannot say with absolute certainty that divorce is causing this. But does divorce help? Is it the solution? Certainly not!! Otherwise pro-divorce lobbiers would be quoting statistics too, but they hardly ever do it if at all!! I personally have never seen a study where divorce has proven positive statistical effects!
It is a proven fact which no one can contest that 2nd marriages have worse failure rates, while 3rd marriages even worse failure rates than 2nd marriages. If I'm not mistaken the pro-divorce movement argues that children will not affected by divorce, I would argue that they definitely are not helped. Possibly their situation is made worse, since at least separation usually doesn't allow the presence of a new partner in the children's presence...
As Maltese citizens I think you should be very proud that Malta is the only European nation without divorce, as opposed to the contrary. As an educated voter, you should look at a holistic picture, which should include looking at statistics.
Do not vote 'yes' just because you hate the church! Think about the effects it can have on society as a whole, possibly on the economy!! Possibly on the beloved fuel prices and electricity bills eventually! Malta is one of the few nations who have held strongly throughout the financial crisis, I personally think that the Maltese families' strength and Maltese culture has something to do with it. The solution to marital problems is education, couple training and preparation for commitment. Much as I disagree with the church on almost everything, I must say that catholic teaching of sacrifice is what society needs. Abolition of the self-centred mentality is probably part of the solution to preventing marriage breakdown. Most people are simply so selfish nowadays!! This is what Malta must work on. Definitely not introducing divorce! It is not a question of imposing one's beliefs on others, it is a question of safeguarding the strength of your Maltese society! I wish I could vote 'NO' too...
Mr Joe Gatt
May 22nd 2011, 17:44
Most people are simply so selfish nowadays!! ......I wish I could vote 'NO' too...
I too remember a time when Malta used to be a beautiful place to live, amongst other happening, British settlers came in, bought land for peanuts, as it was affordable to them, the property prices exploded, these settler sold their properties at inflated prices collected the profits and moved on, to repeat the same somewhere else.
That was the beginning of the property boom. now Malta looks like a Beirut, my dear friend.
This is what is called progress, which unfortunately cannot be reversed.
There is always a price to pay dear Mr Shields, we are already there with separation, cohabitation deceit and a moraly bankrupt society, but the way forward, like a runaway Train keeps going unabatedly, for better or for worse.
It`s a Pity but Time does not stay still either, So I guess we`ll have to survive another day.
Kurt Shields
May 22nd 2011, 18:31
Mr. Gatt, I am deeply sorry if our nation caused Malta troubles, although I've only been on this planet since the 1980s. I fail to see, however, the relevance of the 'property boom' to divorce and its possible effects on society. Is it to do with the selfishness of these British settlers?
"we are already there with separation, cohabitation deceit and a moraly bankrupt society"
I agree with you fully here, however:
"but the way forward, like a runaway Train keeps going unabatedly, for better or for worse."
You have been given a choice through referendum and can influence to progress of Maltese society. I personally have looked at several statistics and can only conclude that divorce is definitely not a turn for the better. It is probably a turn for the worse, that is my opinion. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, and I respect your opinion fully. However, I urge you to vote responsibly and inform yourself as much as possible before voting. I have personally been undecided regarding divorce, I have made an effort to inform myself as much as possible, including looking at statistics, and I am now confidently against divorce since I am quite certain that no good can come out of it.
Mr Lawrence Fenech
May 22nd 2011, 18:48
Do you have divorce in the UK?
Mr Victor Laiviera
May 22nd 2011, 18:49
As an educated voter, Mr Shields, I will vote to bring Malta into the 21st century, to provide relief for those who need it and to reinforce tye church-state separation.
And I need no patronising valedictorian advice to tell me what to do.
Ms Rudi Mcbeal
May 22nd 2011, 20:19
Very well said, Mr Shields. The truth is that a lot of people have never resided anywhere else besides this country, which is why they believe that divorce is going to solve the problem of broken marriages. I hope that they won't see the reality of it when it is then much too late.
joseph quintano
May 22nd 2011, 23:13
this is the most sensible comment i have read in the whole divorce campaign. i completely agree with your comments. My fellow maltese,please note
Nuno Fernandes
May 22nd 2011, 17:04
simply unbelievable
Mr Joe Borg
May 22nd 2011, 17:01
In my opinion the introduction will impact the whole society not only the individual being divorced. The question is will it be will it weaken our society or will it solve some of the social problems we have. As for the "responsible divorce" they are proposing, I don't think it’s responsible at all. A responsible divorce proposal would have been a divorce that allows you only to divorce once. I think People who use divorce more than once, are not responsible at all. Most of the people who divorce the first time end up divorcing from the second and the third marriage as well. I hope this is not the kind of society we want.
I'm voting NO
Mr Joe Borg
May 22nd 2011, 16:53
In my opinion the introduction will impact the whole society not only the individual being divorced. The question is will it be will it weaken our society or will it solve some of the social problems we have. As for the "responsible divorce" they are proposing, I don't think it’s responsible at all. A responsible divorce proposal would have been a divorce that allows you only to divorce once. I think People who use divorce more than once, are not responsible at all. Most of the people who divorce the first time end up divorcing from the second and the third marriage as well. I hope this is not the kind of society we want.
I'm voting NO
Mr Joe Gatt
May 22nd 2011, 16:35
Welcome all to the Middle Ages. Who will be burnt at the stake today? anybody knows?
Let`s go and watch, this could be fun.
Emanuel Muscat
May 22nd 2011, 17:59
I am sure, Nero , had the same feelings!
Kurt Shields
May 22nd 2011, 18:13
I think it is pitiful to speak in this way. Now I am no church-goer, and do correct me if my assumption is incorrect but it seems that you aren't a fan of the church either. However I sincerely hope your vote will not be based on your love/hate relationship with the church but being well-informed.
Mr Alex Buds
May 22nd 2011, 16:27
There seems to be no cure for religious fundamentalists, who seek to impose their views at the expense of people's rights, and who have zero respect for the principle of separation of church and state.
Mr Saliba Francis
May 22nd 2011, 18:08
@ Alex Buds.
To you ALL Christians (except the dubious self-proclaimed "practicing Christians who do not practice the official Catholic doctrine) are religious fundamentalists (in a pejorative sense). I agree that there is no cure because we do not accept that the tenets of our universal faith is a malady needing treatment and your suggested "cure" we reject as "poison".
Our legitimately held and expressed Catholic opinions are maliciously distorted by your exalted lot as an "imposition" for lack of logical argument. What is most disconcerting is the creeping suspicion that you have actually hypnotised yourself into believing your own lies.
Emanuel Muscat
May 22nd 2011, 18:09
You are right:no cure for fundamentalists,at all.You can be an atheist who not only wants separation of church and state, but the annihilation of church and absolute supremacy of a state( that is on its last legs! ).
What is people's rights?:certainly not to destroy what has worked for thousands of years and replace it with 'multiple' partners,dissolvable bonds,and to the devil my hindermost.
Mr Matthew Grima
May 23rd 2011, 10:10
"certainly not to destroy what has worked for thousands of years"
What has it destroyed for it to keep going this long though?
Mr Matthew Grima
May 22nd 2011, 16:27
Couldn't provide a straight answer, no surprises.
Emanuel Muscat
May 22nd 2011, 17:53
A straight answer for a complicated question is No:surprise,surprise?
Mr Matthew Grima
May 23rd 2011, 10:11
If you let others explain it for you, yes you may be right.
Mr Mark Cutajar
May 22nd 2011, 16:11
So after being faced with statistics that show that divorce did not hurt marriages, but helped create new ones, his last sentence was:
"If divorce is going to cause others to break up, and that’s the evidence overseas, I would look at the wider picture."
Kurt Shields
May 22nd 2011, 17:15
I personally find it strange how you can state with such certainty that divorce helps create new marriages when marriage rates across Europe have been on the decline and cohabitation on the increase. I wouldn't say that divorce causes hurt to marriages directly, but I also wouldn't say that divorce can be of any help.
Emanuel Muscat
May 22nd 2011, 17:39
It does hurt marriage and the 'new marriages' that divorce 'creates' are mostly about previously married men who go 'bed-hopping'.Why do you think that according to latest statistics published today by newspapers of how people feel about voting for and against,women are 54 per cent against and men are 54 per cent for.
Kurt Shields
May 22nd 2011, 18:06
Interesting point Mr. Muscat. That is indeed quite a significant statistic.