Divorce would elimate social stigma of illegitimacy - Divorce Movement
Divorce would help minimise and eliminate the social stigma associated with children whose parents are cohabiting, the Divorce Movement said today.
Addressing a news conference at the Mgarr playground, movement head Deborah Schembri said that a third of children born in Malta were born out of wedlock.
Divorce would prevent this from happening. It would help stabilise the relationship of these children's parents' through marriage.
She explained that a salient point in the proposed divorce bill was to increase the age at which parents would be obliged to provide maintenance for their children from 18 to 23 for those children who were still studying.
Dr Schembri, who was accompanied by MPs Jeffrey Pullicino Orlando (PN) and Evarist Bartolo (PL), said that although the reference to illegitimacy had been removed, there still existed some distinction between children born within and outside of marriage. Such was the case with inheritance.
She said that one could hardly call a marriage that between a couple that would have been separated for four years or more. It would be a marriage just on paper. Divorce would give such couples the chance to establish a stable family within a marriage.
Dr Schembri said that no fault divorce, which was the type being proposed, was beneficial for children as it made no sense to reopen conflicts that tried to pin fault on either of the parties following the trauma of the separation proceedings.
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Mr Michael Parlato Trigona
May 6th 2011, 17:08
Ireland introduced divorce in 1997:
Separated couples in 1996: 94,433
Separated couples in 2006: 198,592 (110% increase)
Persons cohabiting in 1996: 31,298
Persons cohabiting in 2006: 121,763 (289% increase)
Number of Irish children being raised outside the marital family: 26%
http://divorcereferendummalta.com/?p=129
Mr Michael Parlato Trigona
May 6th 2011, 16:19
Ireland introduced divorce in 1997:
Separated couples in 1996: 94,433
Separated couples in 2006: 198,592 (110% increase)
Persons cohabiting in 1996: 31,298
Persons cohabiting in 2006: 121,763 (289% increase) - [with so many cohabiting couples the number of children born outside wedlock will inevitably increase not decrease. Therefore introducing divorce will not eliminate the social stigma of illegitimacy as claimed by the divorce movement]
Number of Irish children being raised outside the marital family: 26%
http://divorcereferendummalta.com/?p=129
Tanja Cilia
May 6th 2011, 14:30
It is being assumed that people who divorce will want to remarry. It is being assumed that all mothers will want to marry the father of their children. It is being assumed that for victims of domestic abuse, be they men or women, divorce will be the panacea that will stop the previous partner reasoning "if not mine, than no-one else's". It is being assumed that those who want divorce want to get married in a religious ceremony as well as a civil one, in the first place. Blanket statements simply indicate the obduracy of those who utter them. http://www.timesofmalta.com/articles/view/20110505/blogs/divorce-from-reality.363745
Mr M Borg
May 6th 2011, 13:49
@ John Cassar
"People who cohabit do so because there is no other alternative to them "
You ask me to wake up and see the real thing I ask you to wake up and stop seeing only what pleases you.
How can you explain the fact that in England, a place where one can get divorce 1 out of 5 women choose to cohabit .
How can you explain the fact that single parent families account for 17% of all families in this year's census in the UK.
This figure represents a 9.5% rise up to 2.9 million from 2.6 million.
These single parents can remarry they do have an " other alternative " can you explain why they choose not to make use of it .
In the UK they call it the " single parent trap ". Although they can marry many say that bad experiences in previous relationships have made them cynical about love.
When you go from one partner to another you lose the will to try again.
The number of cohabiting couples in the UK as at this year is more than 2 million, why don't these couples marry ?
Wake up and start admitting facts.
It is obscene to use children born out of wedlock to promote divorce.
The number of these children will get higher every year if we do get divorce legislation.
Many will follow the trend and cohabit after divorce. These relationships do not last with the result that the number of single parents will also increase.
What is the use of a marriage which comes with an expiry date of 4 years ? Why bother ? Divorce makes a joke out of marriage.
No to divorce
Yes to marriage.
EDWIN DE MARCO
May 6th 2011, 10:14
Marriage & Holy Orders are both sacraments. Two options: I think If a priest is permitted to do away with the sacrament of Holy Orders, the sacrament of marriage should also be dissolved. Or else, both sacraments should not be dissolved. But the last option would leave a few priests unsatisfied & that's not fair since they are la creme de la creme & much loved in Malta, which is 49% +51% catholic. Tsk!Tsk!
Mr John Scicluna
May 6th 2011, 02:56
Maybe it's easier said than done... but for all those who want to have the option for divorce, they should just not marry in a church in the first place... but then again everybody likes the idea of getting married in a nice church, with a nicely dressed bride and groom, and why not during the village feast when the church is all nice and decorated...
I don't know about you, but if you want to be Catholic practitioners do it all the way and not just for the kicks and nice ceremonies it incorporates or maybe it's just me being too naive...
Mr Matthew Grima
May 6th 2011, 14:05
Don't you realise that divorce is not available to those who are only married by the state?
That's the whole point a number of people are trying to put through.
Mr Denis Pace
May 6th 2011, 15:15
Agreed
What a load of bull!
Let people decide, but, please, dont give us this rubbish.
Mark Jones
May 5th 2011, 21:53
There has been some rubbish spouted by both sides in this debate, but Dr Schembri's latest rant takes some beating. So, if her remarks are reported accurately, divorce will prevent the birth of children out of wedlock. Perhaps the good lady would enlighten us as to how divorce will help the next pregnant schoolgirl, etc.
Mr Matthew Grima
May 6th 2011, 10:39
Do you understand the meaning of "minimise" Mark?
Gerry Cowie
May 5th 2011, 20:16
How appropriate for a picture in a children's playground!
If divorce solves the problem of illegitimacy, what about children born to unmarried mothers? How does divorce solve this problem then?
Elaine Compagno
May 5th 2011, 22:36
I guess we could delve into the subject of condoms and other contraceptives.. but lets not make any other religious figure cry now..
Mr John Cassar
May 5th 2011, 22:42
Gerry, maybe it's just me being dim but the reply is so obvious it's screaming to be heard.
The unmarried mothers who are still single do not need divorce because they are not married.
However there are unmarried mothers and/or fathers who are unmarried because they are in a relationship with someone who cannot be married. This prohibition is simply because Malta does not allow divorce. These cases exist, are real, and need addressing not faded dogma.
A vote for divorce is a vote for Solidarity with those less fortunate than us at marriage.
YES WE CAN!!
Mr M Vella***
May 5th 2011, 17:36
POGGUTI FOR EVER,you can change that,go and vote yes for divorce, Don't deny a family to your loved ones,grant this basic human right to whoever needs it.Don't fool yourself, It can be your kids or your grandchildren who might need it in the future,sometimes we close a door , that we might regret in the future, than the blame will be all ours .
Ms Maria Vassallo
May 5th 2011, 17:24
Kelma li qed tintuza minn min jaf jaqra bejn il-linji tal-argumenti tal-moviment pro-divorzju hija INGANN!
Mr M Borg
May 5th 2011, 17:04
@ Saviour Falzon
" The freedom to do what you want when you want to do it
Better relationships with your children "
That is why we say No to divorce, because in life one has to be mature enough to ride through the bad times.
Saying that divorce will give one the feedon to do what one wants, means that whenever one feels like one can just walk out. What about wife and children ?
Do you call this a plus to the pro divorce ? Nothing can be worst !
How can you say that divorce will give parents a better relationship with their children.
Wake up , and see the real thing.
Which child will say thankyou to any parent when this child is draged from one hone to another by this loving parent.who wants a life " based on passion " ?
Divorce will mean hell to many children.
Many who want your kind of freedom will not remarry but cohabitat, Couples who cohabitat do not form a permanent relationship but change partners often.
Is this the stable loving home you wish on children ?
Nothing good can come out of divorce !
Mr John Cassar
May 5th 2011, 20:29
M.Borg , why don't you wake up and see the real thing before preaching to others to do so?
People who cohabit do so because there is no other alternative to them. You are oblivious to the fact that many form permanent relationships and the fact that one third of children are being born out of wedlock is a testament to this.
If you believe that a person just decides to divorce and walk out just like that simply reflects a mix of Dallas/Dynasty and Church Spin.
Children not being born out of wedlock would like to have a proper legal family like us.
Unfortunately they are currently opposed by selfish 'holier than thou' people trying to preserve a religious fiefdom in Malta.
Historically the church has always fought the conceipt of liberty....and generally always lost.
A Yes vote means Solidarity with those less fortunate in marriage than us.
A no vote means replacing a democracy with a theocracy.
YES WE CAN
Mr Joe Zammit
May 5th 2011, 16:41
Remarriage after divorce can easily be described as another form of cohabitation. In cohabitation there is no bond. Divorce points to no bond because when they want the couple can for some reason or another get a divorce. Divorce opens the way to literally another form of cohabitation.
Marriage and only marriage is serious and beneficial to every human society. The two characteristics of marriage are UNITY and INDISSOLUBILITY. Marriage is for ever.
No voter, no MP can vote in favour of divorce without sinning seriously against God. Divorce is a grave sin and voting for divorce is equally a grave sin that separates the offender from God and puts them on the path to hell.
Mr Joseph Calleja
May 5th 2011, 18:27
"Marriage is for ever" And what do you know about marriage? Have you ever been married to experience the ups and downs, the good and the evil of marriage? If not how can you say that marriage is forever? Then why does the church have annulments and the government of Malta sanctions it? No Mr Z, nothing is forever, except death and taxes. The rest we make up to suit our needs.
Ms Lina CARUANA
May 5th 2011, 16:35
One statement is striking. "The freedom to do what you want when you want to do it" And leave the responsibiliy of the consequences behind you or to somebody else? Of course it is scary !
Mr Angelo Vassallo
May 5th 2011, 16:35
@ Ms Mandy Abela
You got it all WRONG dear Ms Mandy Abela just like the Divorce Movement headed by Dr. Deborah Schembri. The anti-divorce movement believes ONLY in marriage. In fact what this movement wants to see in our country, is not a divorce law but other and modern initiatives to help the family stay together, “for better or for worse, in health and in illness, in poverty and in richness” for us and most of all we stay "Flimkien ghal Uliedna".
Ms Maria Vassallo
May 5th 2011, 16:31
Just to remind you all once again before it could be too late:
To JPO:
'Thou shalt not commit adultery'
'Go and sin no more'......Jesus to the woman caught in adultery!
To EB:
'Thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's wife/husband'
'The man you are with is not your husband'......Jesus to the Samaritan Woman
To JM:
'Divorce is instrinsically evil, condemned by the Saviour of the World in the Gospels'
To MF:
It is statistically proved that in the western world divorce brought about economic disasters.
To DS :
The Maltese nation will hold you responsable for the harm that will be done to its citizens if........
HE WILL COME IN GLORY TO JUDGE THE LIVING AND THE DEAD......
VERRA' IL GIORNO, padre cristoforo to don rodrigo in Manzoni's 'Promessi Sposi'.
Marvic Psaila
May 5th 2011, 17:33
To MV:
Live and Live!
To JPO, EB, MF, DS:
Keep it up and Good Luck.
Marvic Psaila
May 5th 2011, 18:35
Apologies for the typo in my previous contribution:
To MV:
Live and Let Live!
To JPO, EB, JM, MF, DS:
Keep it up and Good Luck.
Mr Guido Farrugia
May 5th 2011, 20:50
Waqa l'ass, religion and more religion. U hallina u iftah mohhok
Mr Joe Zammit
May 5th 2011, 16:25
Marriage after divorce is cohabitation!!
Elaine Compagno
May 6th 2011, 07:33
And marriage after annulment is a magic trick!
Michael A. Saliba
May 5th 2011, 16:24
Mr Zammit has quoted that what God has joined together, let no man put asunder. Ok fine. However the proposed legislation on Divorce aims to allow the dissolution of the *Civil* marriage. It is aimed only at what *man* has joined together. Indeed, by insisting that "what man has joined together, let no man put asunder", as is implicitly being done by opponents to the proposed law, one would be elevating the civil bond to the same level as the sacramental bond (and therefore man to God).
Surely this borders on the heretical!!!
Ms Mandy Abela
May 5th 2011, 16:44
What boggles the mind even more is that if the God that has joined the man and woman together did not reside in a Roman Catholic Church, then it's ok, that God doesn't count. A person married in eg. Church of England or Anglican Church, once divorced, can get married in the Roman Catholic Church without the need of an annulment!!! Vows for both these services would have been taken in the presence of God.
Mr Saviour falzon
May 5th 2011, 16:10
Stepping out of the safety of the familiar is scary but here are 13 pro’s of divorce:
1.A home that is not filled with constant envision and anxiety.
2.Deep lessons that have resulted in amazing personal growth with new found confidence and self-esteem.
3.A new sense of self with a reconnection to your strengths and talents.
4.The special knowledge that comes with having survived a major life transition: wisdom.
5.A new life that is centered on what is important to you, to what you value.
6.The clarification of your passions and the ability to create a life based on those passions.
7.The realization that a crisis in life creates an opening for change that you might not have ever had.
8.A new career.
9.The freedom to do what you want when you want to do it.
10.Better relationships with your children.
11.The healing of old emotional wounds that emerge during divorce which gives you a new found freedom to create whatever you want in your life.
12.Peace of mind.
13. Retrieval of your power with the loss of victim-hood
Mr Michael Parlato Trigona
May 6th 2011, 16:53
I would hope that one's decision to seriously commit to a partner and together bring children (for whom we are fully responsible) into this world would be the result of some of the above experiences, although a number of them have absolutely nothing to do with the issue at hand and item 9 is not really conducive with the vocation of marriage anyway.
Ms Mandy Abela
May 5th 2011, 16:05
With reference to the anti divorce billboards stating "Flimkien ghal uliedna", I would take it to mean that this movement does not believe in separation or annulment either, since these also have the same effect on children.
Mr Joe Zammit
May 5th 2011, 15:53
The pro-divorce movement has no one single valid argument in favour of divorce. So what do you expect them to say? Just nonsense.
Marriage is the union of two persons, a man and a woman, for life. The two characteristics of marriage are: Unity and Indissolubility. If one of these is missing, it is no marriage at all. If unity is missing, it is bigamy; if indissolubility is missing, it is cohabitation.
Darbtejn insiru tfal!! Meta tikber u titbandal hlief hmerijiet ma tghidx!!!
D. Azzopardi
May 5th 2011, 16:18
The two characteristics of marriage are: Unity and Indissolubility. If one of these is missing, it is no marriage at all. If unity is missing, it is bigamy; if indissolubility is missing, it is cohabitation.
You forgot something much more important: Love.
Mark Abela
May 5th 2011, 16:25
With all due respect Mr. Zammit, no one is going to force any devout catholic to get a divorce. If you are a catholic and get married through the church, the introduction of divorce legislation SHOULD not change anything. The choice is up to you and being a devout catholic, your beliefs would lead you to stick to your first marriage regardless of how unworkable it may unfortunately, unpredictably become.
The problem in Malta is the intertwining of the civil marriage and the church marriage. Being a catholic, as I suspect you are, you do not agree with the concept of a divorce since, 'dak li jghaqqad Alla, ma jifirdux il-bniedem'. It does not however mean that any other Maltese person wishing to get a civil marriage in Malta should be denied the possibility of divorce because of what you believe. Religious belief is a choice and should not be imposed on anyone wishing to live a normal life in Malta.
Being civilly married shouldn't mean that you are married in the church and thus my proposition would be to distinguish between the two.
If you want to live your life as a Catholic, no one is stopping you from doing so. If others want to live their lives otherwise, who are you to stop them? Why should you deny people of another creed the option of having the right to divorce? No one is forcing you to agree with divorce as a concept but rather to give people who don't share your beliefs the chance to regulate their own life in the way they believe.
Mr Joe Zammit
May 5th 2011, 15:51
Some are mixing up divorce with remarriage. Divorce is not remarriage. Divorce is the dissolution of a validly contracted marriage by a human person. In an annulment there is no dissolution because there is no marriage.
And here is the evil of divorce: you have a valid marriage in which the spouses have solemnly VOWED to remain each other's, to remain faithful to each other in that, and ONLY in that marriage, and then somebody who has no say in that marriage abuses by declaring that marriage invalid.
What God has united let no man, no State put asunder! This is the greatest argument against the evil and the superficiality of divorce. This prohibition applies to all marriages, religious or not. No person, no MP can vote for it without sinning seriously against God!
Join in the battle between God and the devil! Fight the good fight! The victory is ours, it’s already guaranteed!
Mr F J Brincat
May 5th 2011, 16:10
In an annulment there is no dissolution because there is no marriage."
Yeah, we sweep that failed marriage (for whatever reason) under the carpet maybe God won't notice it, huh? You're not serious are you?
And then we have this "This prohibition applies to all marriages, religious or not" So what you are saying is that people like you - people who have no say in any marriage - will stick their nose even in a civil marriage - in my marriage.
Mr F J Brincat
May 5th 2011, 16:15
And what do YOU say to those children that are born out of wedlock?
Mr M Borg
May 5th 2011, 15:50
Maybe there is a clause in this " no fault " responsible divorce which will force all cohabiting couples to marry.?
If there is none how can Dr. Schembri say that divorce will stop children being born out of wedlock ?
What will the IVA movemnet say to children whose parents move into cohabitation after divorce.?
Would they make them believe that thanks to divorce they are now living in a " stable family "?
When will the IVA realise that all their arguments can never make divorce acceptable.
No good can come out of divorce !
Mr mark johnson
May 5th 2011, 15:17
Good luck
Ms Rudi Mcbeal
May 5th 2011, 15:13
Maybe Dr Schembri forgot to add that It would also help their parents divorce and re marry as many times as they want. Now that scenario would certainly contribute in minimising and eliminating the social stigma associated with children, wouldn't it Dr Schembri?
Ms Mandy Abela
May 5th 2011, 15:58
Ms. Mcbeal, seperated couples with children are still going into other relationships whether with divorce or not. Do you think it is easier for the child to say 'my parents are seperated' rather than 'my parents are divorced'? I don't think so..