Update 3: Muscat says he will campaign ahead of divorce referendum
Choice is about being truly European
Opposition leader Joseph Muscat said today that he would be campaigning in the run-up to the referendum on divorce because he wanted to be on the side of those who were suffering, independently of vote considerations.
Speaking in parliament at the end of a 10-sitting debate on a motion for the holding of a divorce referendum, Dr Muscat said the core issue before parliament was not one of divorce or the referendum, but on whether Malta should start the process to modernise society so that the country would be truly European, and not just on paper.
When the people opted to join the EU, they did not opt just to join an institution, but they made a social option for civil rights based on European concepts. This debate was a continuation of that European choice.
The issue as not whether Malta should copy the other European countries.
Religion did not have a monopoly on values and this issue was not one of religion.
His personal position, Dr Muscat said, was based on the ideal that he wanted to live in a country that was truly European. That meant a set of values one should believe in and live. The European values included solidarity, inclusion, democracy, equality and tolerance. Tolerance meant choice and rights, as well as duties.
People should be allowed to take the decisions affecting their lives, while also assuming responsibility for them. Malta tolerated hypocrisy. The state allowed separated couples to cohabit with no responsibilities and duties.
Dr Muscat said he professed to being Catholic and he had been helped to overcome the conflicts he suffered between his religious beliefs and social attitude.
While the Church had a right and duty to speak against divorce, politicians had a right and duty to speak on the need to introduce responsible divorce as part of the process for the Europeanisation of Malta, Dr Muscat said.
In the debate, Dr Muscat said, he had been surprised by the state of denial by people such as Dolores Cristina and Jason Azzopardi, who had sought to play down the extent of marriage break-ups.
Divorce, Dr Muscat said, would not bring about more marriage break-ups, but it would reveal the extent of current problems and provide a solution to them.
Some had argued that one should not have divorce because one could end up having more than one divorce. Yet there had even been cases of more than one annulment, and that was legal.
The laws on separations and annulments needed to be reviewed. Should one continue to have a situation where couples had to reveal all their intimate details in public as they sought separation or annulment? The current hypocrisy in the system was a fact which had led to the divorce debate.
The children suffered when there was divorce, but it was certainly less than in annulment, which even denied that a marriage would have taken place. It was also certainly better than cohabitation, where the children’s parents might break up overnight. That was even worse than Las Vegas style and offered no protection at all.
Divorce was not what caused marriage breakups, and no country had removed divorce once it as introduced, Dr Muscat observed.
What caused break-ups were burdens such as the never-ending bills. Twenty years ago, a worker could raise a family of four children with one salary. Now two salaries were insufficient.
DUTIES OF RESPONSIBLE DIVORCE
Responsible divorce would introduce duties, responsibility and order in new relationships which sprang up after marriages failed. It also provided security to children.
The ones who did not want divorce were those who were comfortable in a new relationship but did not want responsibility.
Having a cohabitation law would be a hypocritical compromise, Dr Muscat said. Most people cohabited because they could not remarry.
And yet this was a country which recognised divorce granted abroad. If Dr Gonzi felt so strongly against divorce, why did not stop this?
Again, the reality was hypocrisy.
Dr Muscat said he had been consistently in favour of the introduction of responsible divorce. Three fronts had developed on the government benches – a small one in favour of divorce, one against divorce but in favour of a referendum, and another which wanted to kill off talk of the referendum in Parliament. The PN was fast becoming a coalition, indeed, the Maltese version of the tea party.
PN ‘TRAP’
The original PN proposal was to hold a referendum only if the House approved a Divorce Bill. It showed that the prime minister was not truly in favour of holding a referendum.
Dr Muscat said he wished to thank those Labour MPs who were against divorce but had not fallen into the PN trap and accepted to hold a referendum. They made him proud.
If the motion for the holding of a divorce referendum was approved, it would be a victory for democracy and honesty. It would be a victory for those who wanted to make Malta truly European, Dr Muscat said.
The PL had not taken a position on divorce because this was a matter of conscience. He believed in divorce, but would not impose his views on others. In contrast, the prime minister had adopted a dogmatic ‘no’ and it was still not clear if the PN would actively campaign for a ‘no’.
The PL would tell its supporters that they were free to vote as they wished. He would express his own wishes and would vote ‘yes’ even though it would be an uphill struggle. There was a real possibility that the referendum would be defeated. But he would not heed advice to stay silent in the run-up to the poll because this was something he believed in.
The prime minister was sacrificing the thousands of people who were suffering. These were people who wanted solutions now, and not in some distant date.
The referendum question would give a clear signal to the people on the form of divorce which the people wanted. It would show that the people wanted responsible divorce. It was irresponsible of the prime minister to want to give a blank cheque to future legislators.
And what were the alternatives? The Church statistical office, Discern, had said that within four years a tenth of the population would have a broken marriage. This was a problem which needed to be tackled now.
Apart from responsible divorce, the state needed to take a practical approach to marriage preparation.
Dr Muscat criticised the prime minister for having criticised the proposed referendum question, without presenting any alternative for fear of losing a vote.
The Labour leader confirmed that both sides agreed that the referendum should be held on Saturday, May 28.
This, he said, was a consultative referendum and some were arguing about whether MPs would follow what was decided. For him, his beliefs would not change but he would hear the people. He felt, Dr Muscat said, that if the No triumphed, the Divorce Bill should be withdrawn. But if it was approved, MPs should not hinder the people’s will. In that way, parliament would remain the legitimate expression of the will of the people.
Dr Muscat said the prime minister yesterday had spoken against the no-fault divorce, while forgetting that Malta already had a no-fault separation.
Reality was that divorce came after a traumatic experience in marriage. No one married to get divorce. But people’s lives should not be locked, like in a divorce.
Responsible divorce was not a luxury, it was a hard choice, the price a person was prepared to pay to build a new family. His duty, Dr Muscat said, was to help those who were suffering, independently of voting considerations.
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Ernest Vella
Apr 9th 2011, 16:26
The call by Muscat to be "Choice is about being truly European" is a bit suspicious for in Europe other things were made legal over the years; ethanasia, gay marriages and also abortion. I don't trust such arguments for the simple reason, from this private bill we learnt that no politician is to be trust. I want to be truly human, truly Christian with European roots, I don't want to be part of a European Dimensia...so I believe this is a dagerous argument. Yes, he declared himself being against abortion...but lets remember what happened in Spain with Zapatero.
Victor Vella
Mar 18th 2011, 12:48
The law in favour of divorce will give those who have no power, who are not society influencers, who have no money, who are, or have not internal friends in the Maltese Curia, now have the ability to go to the law courts and try to find justice where the Church court fails to do. At least from two evils one can find the least of the two. If the referendum passes, that means that the Maltese do not have faith in the church to pass just judgement to those that have been without a remedy for years or if the Church of Christ is only built to forgive those whom one has to live up with somebody who broke up the marriage contract, being beaten or coming home drunken , or threatening , bully or doing any other harm church remedy is the least one can pin up hopes to get it. This is clearly the message that the church in Malta passed to its people. If Your wife/husband has done something of the above one has to forgive his/her malefactors . This is not a remedy.
P Borg
Mar 18th 2011, 11:45
Joseph Muscat, you won my vote in the next election. You'd win more votes if you say that you're not going to let the church interfere in any way if you become the Prime Minister.
It is ridiculous that in 2011, the church still has a say in what happens in this country. Being Maltese has nothing to do with Christianity. It was like this in the old days when people weren't allowed to use their brains, the one that God gave them but let the church say what to do in any matter.
A big percentage of Maltese nowadays is not religious, or like me, believe in God but not the church so when is the government going to realize this & tell the church to mind their own business.
Philip Hili
May 11th 2011, 15:32
Dear Mr. Borg,
Before you put pen to paper why don't you read the Constitution of Malta?
If you do so, you will realise that your comment is NON-SENSE. If you do not have time to go through the website, I am pasting the section which concerns you and after some though, you will realise that what is being said and later if the referendum is approved and therefore made law, in my opinion is unconstitutional.
Constitution of Malta Act, 1964
CONSTITUTION OF MALTA
CHAPTER I
The Republic of Malta
Substituted by:
"2. (1) The religion of Malta is the Roman Catholic Apostolic
Religion.
(2) The authorities of the Roman Catholic Apostolic Church
have the duty and the right to teach which principles are right and
which are wrong.
(3) Religious teaching of the Roman Catholic Apostolic Faith
shall be provided in all State schools as part of compulsory
education."
Therefore, since divorce is against the "Religion of Malta" and "against the teaching of the Roman Catholic Apostolic Faith", our legislators will be altering a section of the Constitution. Now I assume that you are aware that the constitution can be amended ONLY if there is a two-thirds majority of votes of the house. These are the facts and the only thing one could do is to find a solution to amend the Constitution because as it stands now only a two-thirds majority of votes can alter the Constitution of Malta.
M Busuttil
Mar 18th 2011, 11:32
Dr Muscat you call youirself christian, how can you do that ? How can you oppose the direct orders of the MOTHER OF GOD, who has been coming to Malta for these last 5 years, to open our eyes against divorce? Jesus sends her here with His Orders for us today in 2011, not 2000 years ago! Are you not afraid of JESUS CHRIST? Divorce is not a political issue, it is the direct order from God Himself - NO DIVORCE! Please take a look at the Messages from Heaven on the official website - Id-Dehriet tal-Madonna fuq l-Gholja ta Borg in-Nadur .
R.E. Saliba
Mar 18th 2011, 10:12
"Dr Muscat said he professed to being Catholic and he had been helped to overcome the conflicts he suffered between his religious beliefs and social attitude."
Massive lie. He's not Catholic, full stop.
You almost had me voting for you in next election Dr. Muscat, forget it now.
Not because of your stand on divorce but because you don't even know what you're saying.
Your attitude is a result of your moral believes, not the opposite way round.
Unless your attitude changes according to the direction of the wind.....
How can we trust you to govern a country???
Dr. Geoffrey Schembri Adami Med. Vet
Mar 17th 2011, 20:21
Continues....
.....that rules over all people as long as they live, even those who reject to live according to His Word, and those who do not believe in Him. A married woman is bound by God’s law to her husband as long as he lives. So then, if she gets involved in a relationship outside marriage and gives herself to another man while her husband is alive, she is an adulteress and a great cause of scandal to others, and for this she must answer directly to God Himself". (From Saint Paul's Letter to the Romans)
"Whoever breaks one Commandment is guilty of breaking them all. For the same God who said: ‘Do not commit murder’ and ‘do not steal’, also said: ‘Do not commit adultery.’ Even if you do not commit murder or steal, you have become a breaker of God’s law if you commit adultery, just as much as one who murders or steals. Show me your faith in God and your love for Christ through your actions!" (From the Epistle of Saint James the Apostle, known as 'The Just', a relative of Christ.)
Gerard Cassar
Mar 27th 2011, 20:12
In Germany there was Divorce before the E.U. was created and the position did not change. . It remained the same as under the Nazi Hitler. Adenauer did not change anything.
CFarrugia
Apr 9th 2011, 15:39
but why assume that all Maltese are practising Catholics? there are maltese who are atheists, agnostics, Muslim etc..... why not cater for them too? they are also maltese citizens who pay taxes in this country....Why should the laws of our country abide to the Bible?....this would be equivalent to sharia in the case of muslim countries and much has been said against sharia in Malta and european countries......
Dr. Geoffrey Schembri Adami Med. Vet
Mar 17th 2011, 20:18
Mr.Gerard Cassar, Schuman&Adenauer did speak against divorce. Adenauer and the CDU which he led,opposed a change in German law which was less rigid would consent no-fault divorce, as the existing law limited divorce to certain cases.De Gaspari, Schuman & Adenaeur, considred as the three founding fathers of today's EU (contrary to certain Socialist MEPs allies of Dr. Muscat) were against considering divorce as a civil right, &opposed any proposals whereby member states who had not introduced divorce(would be compelled to do so. They were so examplary as Christian politicians that all three are on the road to canonization. Historical facts cannot be changed.
A practising Catholic who puts his faith into practise, like Christ whom he is called to imitate, considers divorce followed by remarriage as adultery.
"To the married, I give charge, NOT I, BUT THE LORD CHRIST HIMSELF, that if the wife separates from her husband, even for very valid reasons, she must remain single if it is no longer possible for her be reconciled to her husband once again, and that the husband cannot divorce his wife even if he lives separated from her. All of you know about God’s law, ...
Continues....
MBorg
Mar 17th 2011, 13:47
So Dr Muscat is going to campaign in favour of divorce, does this mean that we are going to make a political ball out of divorce ?
Some of the actions taken in Malta are so absurd that it makes one think that we are cut off from the rest of the world. On one hand we have the British Government doing all it can, even thinking of giving tax credits ,to encourage couples in marry and in Malta where marriage is still strong we have the LP who are going to campaign against marriage .
Can they let us know the benefits Malta will get as a result of this campaign. How many new jobs is it going to create? How will it help our GDP or are we going to pay lower taxes because of divorce ?
The effect of this campaigning is going to be the very opposite. Divorce will go up cohabitation and single parents will increase with the state left to foot the bill. What is there to campaign for ?
Mr david debattista
Apr 17th 2011, 21:32
@ MBorg, Just what makes you think giving tax credits to marry is a guarantee that such marriages will work . It will change nothing probably makes it worst . Giving a intense educational program to those intending to marry, might prove to be a better idea. Having said that, they do have problems and I wish them all the luck.
Dr. Geoffrey Schembri Adami Med. vet
Mar 17th 2011, 00:54
Dr. Muscat seems to be forget that the founders of the European Union, the Italian De Gaspari, the French Robert Schuman and the German Adenaeur were politicians who put their Christian faith practise in their everyday life, based their decisions on the Teachings of Christ, were faithful to God's Commandments, and were all against divorce!
Dr. Muscat and all those who call themselves practising Catholics but then favour the introduction of divorce in Malta should reflect on these words of Christ:
- “Not whoever says: 'Lord! Lord! enters the kingdom of Heaven, but whoever does the Will of My Father in Heaven”
- “He who loves Me follows My Commandments and abides by My Word. Those who do not follow My Commandments and do not keep My Word, do not Love Me.”
- “Those who declare themselves for Me and defend My Teachings before men, I will defend them before My Father in Heaven. But those who are shy of Me and disown My Word in the presence of men, I will disown them when they appear before My Father in Heaven.”
Gerard Cassar
Mar 17th 2011, 13:10
Dr.Godfrey Schembri Adami: how do you know that the three fathers of Europe were against divorce. Divorce was already in force in their country except perhaps Italy But Schuman and Adenauer were not involved in the matter of divorce. It was already in the their country's statute book. So don't mislead readers.
What is strange is that people with your mentailty are in favour of cohabitation in Maltese {ogguti. And the P.N. is ready to legalise such situation.
Ralph Agius
Mar 16th 2011, 18:18
Since when did Joseph Muscat decide to take it upon himself to campaign the Yes vote? This is not a political vote despite Muscat's wanting to score a pre-election goal. As if nationalists pro-divorce will vote for Labour because its newly elect has decided to throw away the catholic toga (but still conveniently cling to it) and declare himself in favour of the suffering individual.
Can't he draw a line between the national interest and his party having to appear at every apparent (war)front? Calm down Muscat, highjacking JPO's PN-highjaking mission can't possibly make you a better person.
Something tells me that if divorce goes through, the morrow will give us another Labour-sponsored mass meeting...
Joseph Farrugia
Mar 16th 2011, 17:10
nghid lis-sur xuereb jekk jahseb li l-knisja ser itrrikatta l-votant bit-tqarbin qed tizbalja. infakkru li fil-bibja ma hemm xejn li jghid li jekk tivvota Labour ma tithallix titqarben bhal ma gara fis-sittinijiet. Jew il-bibja nuzawha kif jaqbel? nassigurak li min qed ibghati rrid divorzju, zwieg u l-Alla mieghu. Sur xuereb min gab id-divorzju minn barra l-pajjiz, ghax ghandu l-mezzi, llum qed jitqarben. Allura dan li jgib id-divorzju Malta ma jitqarbinx!
M. Camilleri
Mar 16th 2011, 16:54
So now Europe came in handy. The PL leader had campaigned against us joining the EU. Now he states that divorce this will make us more European. A true timeserver
Raymond Bezzina
Mar 16th 2011, 16:31
Some truth about divorce :
- Divorce automatically gives one the right to take another person's spouse.
- By divorce legislation, an abuser would be given the means to abuse numerous spouses
and their children.
- By divorce, the risk of abuse on children from previous marriages rises sharply, especially
on young females.
- Divorce causes disorder in the marriage institution itself because it makes marriage a
temporary union, thus removing trust and security in the spouses themselves.
- Divorce goes against the moral principles of man, - and morality cannot be set aside and
be replaced with material convenience and worldly advances. Whatever we do materially
effects our conscience accordingly.
- Divorce can never be regarded as a solution to marriage breakdown, the same as legalising
illicit drugs can never be regarded as a solution for drug addicts.
C Fenech
Mar 16th 2011, 17:24
Someone needs to burst the bubble you have created around you Mr. Bezzina and welcome you to the real world.
How exactly will divorce legislation automatically gives one the right to take another person's spouse?
How exactly will divorce legislation give the means to an abuser to abuse numerous spouses
and their children?
Let's start with the first two, shall we. Illuminate us !
S. Calleja
Mar 17th 2011, 00:49
As if these things don't already happen, even without divorce.
CA Miller
Mar 17th 2011, 01:55
@ Raymond.
You have obviously never lived in country where divorce is a part of society. I assure you that divorce is not fun and that most people who get divorced are not abusing their spouses or their kids, and they're not having affairs with other people. Most people who seek a divorce do so with more diligence than when they got married. Have you ever even been outside of Malta??
- Divorce gives two people the right to cancel a contract by which they are bound. Nobody else is involved in a marriage contact or a divorce.
- Abusers do not need to be married to their victims to abuse them.
Give us one good reason why a married couple with no children should not be allowed to get divorced if they both so choose.
M Vella
Mar 17th 2011, 13:24
Maybe he is the abuser :-/
mattew xuereb
Mar 16th 2011, 16:24
Nispera biss li dawk li ha jivvutaw favur id-divorzju ma jippretendux li jitqarbnu issa. Ax hemm miktub car u tond li Alla d-divorzju ma jridux. Issa hu l-waqt li naraw kemm ana kottolic f'dan il pajjiz.
victor zarb
Mar 18th 2011, 01:31
Sur Xuereb,fil bibbja hemm miktub ukoll li ghandek tghin lil min hu fil bzonn,allura nghid jien dik tfisser li int ghandek tiehu paga doppja fil gimgha u thalli lil ta tahtek ibati? Allura sur Xuereb ma tahsibx li min suppost jaghti ezempju m huwiex kattoliku? L ezempju jkaxkar king.
David Schembri
Mar 16th 2011, 16:23
It is becoming more evident that the PN are trying to scare people away from the divorce issue by mixing it up with abortion.
Denis Pace
Mar 16th 2011, 16:00
Jekk Alla jrid, issa jidhol id-divorzju!
Fl-ahhar.....
Alla maghna!
Denis Pace
Mar 16th 2011, 15:59
What a ridiculous argument?
Why not introduce Abortion while you're at it. They have it in Europe, don't they?
Karl Consiglio
Mar 17th 2011, 19:14
Yes I agree with the introduction of abortion in Malta
victor zarb
Mar 24th 2011, 01:06
Denis, x ghandu x jaqsam l abort mad divorzju? ejja nkunu maturi f dan il pajjiz forsi xi darba nevolvu fl argumenti li nipprovaw insostnu.
john vella
Mar 16th 2011, 15:50
Today I had to sit and hear a very long and peculiar history lesson of the party that I love, the party that Dr. Joseph want to replace with his New Labour. I found very interesting the latest piece of information.
And I quote, Dr. Joseph said today in Parliament, that he was given to hold a wooden cross that Dr. Hyzler was holding on his dying bed, (these are Dr. Joseph words).
Boy this is illuminating! I remember I was in my teens when Dr. Hyzler passed away, he lived close to where I lived at that time. Today I am in my seventies.
Is Dr. Joseph telling us that a bolt of lightning came down on him to be close to Dr. Hyzler may he rest in peace, so Dr. Joseph as a very small boy, not older than an altar boy, be selected to hold Dr. Hyzler's wooden cross from all those around.
This is both news and history in the making.
I guess he must have been always at these important history making places for future reference by him in Parliament and as a Christian (his words) remind us of his humble deeds!
v vella
Mar 16th 2011, 16:11
Dr Muscat mentioned Guze Ellul Mercer by name. He referred to how Mr Ellul Mercer’s son had told him what happened to his father on his deathbed. The wooden cross can be seen at Labour’s 90th anniversary exhibition at the Labour National Centre. I saw it myself. Then again, if you are really the Labourite you profess to be, I would have expected you to know that.
R.Borg
Mar 16th 2011, 16:27
@ John Vella
Please note that Joseph never mentioned Dr Hyzler but Guze Ellul Mercer who died before Dr Hyzler. However, it was the son of the latter that gave the cross to Joseph VERY RECENTLY so either you have a hearing problem or else you are doing it on purpose. In either case, you should apologise to Joseph for your comments.
john vella
Mar 17th 2011, 08:16
@v vella, R Borg
It is true that the late Guze Ellul Mercer was mentioned. I apologize. However, never, I repeat never was it mentioned that the wooded cross was presented by his son to Dr. Joseph in his speech.
To me it was clear when Dr. Joseph said he was given the wooded cross it was given to him in consistence with his meaning of his speech, and that is as soon as Guze Ellul Mercer passed away. Why did he NEVER mention the third party?
Mark Cassar
Mar 16th 2011, 15:40
What a pity! The leader of the Opposition wants to becoma Prime Minister and tells us that in order to become true Europeans we need to introduce divorce! What a pity Dr Muscat! Honestly I would be very happy to be called a Catholic Taliban.
Divorce is being presented as a cure to marriages gone wrong. No, no and no. Whilst there are marriages gone wrong, it is important to note that research has shown that divorce has negative consequences on children. In the period immediately following divorcethe children show behavioral and psychological distress. Children can show conduct problems, and decrease in their educational attainment. Children of divorced parents tend to go into relationships at a younger age than those of non divorced parents, but then they tend to have more relationship breakdowns. These consequences are due to complex interacting factors including role modeling of disputing parents, financial consequences of divorce and distress of parents reducing their capacity to help their children.
Statement based on Rodgers, B and Pryor, J (1988) Divorce and separation: the outcome for children. Joseph Rowntree Foundation, York
Joseph Portelli
Mar 16th 2011, 15:39
"Dr Muscat said he professed to being Catholic".
Kif jista jghid li hu kattoliku meta qed iwarrab principju fundamentali tar-religjon kattolika? Bl-istess ragunament li meta wiehed ma jimxix mal-principji ta' club, partit, organizazzjoni jitkecca (jekk ma jkunx ragel u jitlaq hu), daqshekk iehor ma jistax Joseph Muscat jghid li hu kattoliku meta qed iwarrab principju fundamentali. F'materji ohra ammirajt lil Joseph Muscat u kont qed nibda nxaqleb lejn il-PL, pero bl-attegjament tieghu f'din il-kwistjoni rega beghdni hafna.
c.camilleri
Mar 16th 2011, 15:29
".......to live in a country that was truly European....." this is coming from a person who fought tooth and nail against Malta's entry into Europe' Hypocrisy at its best.
Franz-Josef Bartoli
Mar 16th 2011, 16:30
Yes and as a true European he didn't wanted us to change our currency to Euro, as he told so to our fellow Europeans from Iceland.
l fenech
Mar 16th 2011, 15:13
Spoken like a true and honest politician, a good opportunity and chance for the people to choose what they really need.
Pierre Borg
Mar 16th 2011, 15:06
I am sorry but Joe Muscat is sending a message to his wife that when he gets fed up he can just leave. What he promised to on his wedding day is all false.
This the beginning of a weaker family foundation.
We all want to be Gods, God gave us a commandment and we are going against it. That is a mortal sin.
Joseph Vella
Mar 16th 2011, 15:47
Please tell me you're joking
Pierre Borg
Mar 16th 2011, 16:32
niccajta sabih Issa meta tidher quddiem Alla ghidlu kont qed niccajta
Giovann Attard
Mar 17th 2011, 11:35
Sur Borg, allahares kulhadd jirraguna bhalek. Mela ghax jien qieghed sew, ifisser li m'hawnx problemi u nivvota kontra xi haga li hawn bosta individwi Maltin u Ghawdxin li jriduha biex taghtihom nifs? Ma nahsibx li din hija solidarjeta' nisranija.
George Cremona
Mar 16th 2011, 14:54
Thank you Dr. Muscat. You are showing us the way forward. To be with you one should choose between being true European and true Christian. I will absolutely choose to be a true Christian first then a true European. You can't be the second without being the first.
So I can never, never be with you because you are neither a true Christian and you proved it in Parlaiament this morning nor a true European because you had proved your second failure during the referendum for Malta's membership.
victor zarb
Mar 18th 2011, 01:41
be careful mr cremona hi ta,because you really worried me that you are never going to support mr muscat,i mean like wake up dude! once we joined the eu we all knew divorce was going to be an agenda we eventually had to face, so now what s the big deal? did thechurch in malta ever protest against eu reguarding divorce? did it ever warn anyone? in maltese we say MIN XARRAB IL BAKKALJAW KIELU HABIB.
fcallus
Mar 16th 2011, 14:48
inhossni ewropew tassew meta...pajjizi jkun kapaci jhaddan lvaluri anki religjuzi li dejjem mexxewna tul is sekli. Joseph Muscat li sejjah lilu nnifsu kattoliku (jekk ma jamilx ekk ara kemm jitlef voti ux) hu responsabbli li jaghti kas il-bniedem fil kompletezza tieghu...gifieri inkluza ir-ruh. Iz-zwieg bid divorzju jsir haga biss civili...gifieri ma tibqax unjoni f-isem Alla. Jekk Muscat u JPO etc jemmnu li bhekk insiru aktar ewropej u 'moderni' ma naqbilx maghhom. Jekk tassew irridu nsejhu lilna nfusna moderni u innovattivi nahseb wasal zzmien li ghal kuntrarju ta pajjizi ewropej nzommu lghaqda tal familja li kienet minn dejjem!!!
fcallus
Mar 16th 2011, 14:48
inhossni ewropew tassew meta...pajjizi jkun kapaci jhaddan lvaluri anki religjuzi li dejjem mexxewna tul is sekli. Joseph Muscat li sejjah lilu nnifsu kattoliku (jekk ma jamilx ekk ara kemm jitlef voti ux) hu responsabbli li jaghti kas il-bniedem fil kompletezza tieghu...gifieri inkluza ir-ruh. Iz-zwieg bid divorzju jsir haga biss civili...gifieri ma tibqax unjoni f-isem Alla. Jekk Muscat u JPO etc jemmnu li bhekk insiru aktar ewropej u 'moderni' ma naqbilx maghhom. Jekk tassew irridu nsejhu lilna nfusna moderni u innovattivi nahseb wasal zzmien li ghal kuntrarju ta pajjizi ewropej nzommu lghaqda tal familja li kienet minn dejjem!!!
David Falzon
Mar 16th 2011, 14:27
This is good. I hope that this is the beginning of a new progressive and liberal Malta. Many issues remain to be discussed including abortion, euthanasia, gay marriage, cloning, etc. Many might not agree but just as divorce is a personal choice so are all the other issues. In the end, as Muscat said these are choices about being truly Europeans. Time for the church to separate entirely from the state.
l fenech
Mar 16th 2011, 15:15
@David.
Don't push it too far there is a limit to everything.
Claude Lacoste
Mar 16th 2011, 18:23
hey David ! you go too far : euthanasia, gay marriage and above cloning aren't authorized in all european countries !
Jeremy J Camilleri
Mar 16th 2011, 14:16
It seems that the anti Muscat brigade can't really stick to an issue..
Oh well, we've still got to move forward. This is but the first step towards catching up with others and allowing folks to make choices without having to wait for someone else's Religion to make the choices for them....
As for Abortion...didnt know that aboprtion was a European monopoly...
M Vassallo
Mar 16th 2011, 14:12
Dr Muscat, take a back seat in an issue like this. We don't need divorce to be Europeans.
Joe Busuttil
Mar 16th 2011, 14:11
'Malta tolerates hypocrisy." Good one that Joseph. A reasoned and well thought out speech,one making sense and touching all the main points,not like the one we heard from the PM yesterday.
john borg
Mar 16th 2011, 14:09
B'vizjoni moderna u manigerjali, bhal ta qablu, Dr Muscat qed jipprova joghgob lil kulhadd u ghandu soluzzjoni ghal kollox. patt max-xitan basta nidhru sbieh
l. Valletta
Mar 16th 2011, 14:08
Gheziez membri parlamentari, ftakru li fuq Alla mhemm hadd u xejn. L-anqas hajjietna mhi taghna. Ftakru li l-knisja hija ta' Gesu Kristu u minghajr dan Sidtna Gesu Kristu hadd ma jista jghaddi ghal ghand il-Missier. Tkunux iktar boloh u gharfu x'nhi l-verita. Il-verita mhux dak li tlabalbu intom imma li ghallimna Sidna Gesu Kristu. Dan mhux fundamentalizmu izda VERITA. Min ghandu widnejn ha jisma.
carmel callus
Mar 16th 2011, 14:01
Joe Muscat said: "But if it (the referendum) was approved, MPs should not hinder the people’s will. In that way, parliament would remain the legitimate expression of the will of the people." Does he mean that if the referendum is approved , then MPs have to vote in favour of the Bill even if they do not agree with the introductions of divorce? Il-farsa se tkompli...
Joe Zammit
Mar 16th 2011, 13:56
Conscience is reasoning.
No conscience can contradict the express and clear words of Christ about the evil of divorce: What God has joined together let no man put asunder! No conscience can genuinely go against this clear commandment of Christ on the necessity of the indissolubility of marriage and the intrinsic evil of divorce.
A conscience that suggests divorce to anyone is diabolical. The devil is pleased with divorce. God does not want divorce. This is the clear teaching of Christ and the infallible teaching of the Catholic Church.
If your conscience tells you something against the infallible teaching of the one holy Catholic and Apostolic Church, do not follow your conscience. Your conscience is not infallible. Your conscience is subject to the teaching of Christ and his Church.
If you follow your conscience in disagreement with the Church, you are grievously stubborn and proud. Your stubbornness and pride will lead you only to hell. All those in hell appeal to their conscience for being there ... for ever... without any hope of redemption... there for ever!
Conscience is reasoning!
Pierre Borg
Mar 16th 2011, 15:29
Well Done Joe, well written. We are loosing our values. We need people with Christian Values in Parlament. This God's Commandment not Joe Muscat's or JPO's. These are the examples we are setting for our children. Marraige of convience.
Carmel Cilia
Mar 16th 2011, 13:51
Ghan nazzjonalisti meta Gonzi jirbah mozjoni fil parlament iffiser li ghandu ragun ; meta jitlef vot fil parlament b'voti mil partit tieghu stess ghandu ragun wkoll.
Dan meta konna tfal nilaghbu il- football f'ghalqa konna naghmlu hekk. Jekk nirbah o.k. u jekk ma nirbahx inhassar. Iva il- labour ma ghandu ragun qatt u f'xejn. Din jew suppervja jew injoranza hbieb.
Dr.Emmanuel BEZZINA,MA,LL.D.
Mar 16th 2011, 13:50
DR MUSCAT,YOU HAVE NOT ONLY MY FULL SUPPORT BUT AS A CAMPAIGNER FOR THE DIVORCE CAUSE OVER THIRTY YEARS PLUS,MY RESOURCES ARE BEING OFFERED FOR A POSITIVE REFERENDUM RESULT RELATED TO THE QUESTION PROPOSED BY OUR OPPOSITION.
This is not a religious crusade,this is a remedy which has long been needed as the inevitable consequence of a marriage that is formally no more but for the legalistic marital link.Infact most separated individuals refer openly to their husband / wife as EX when in legal terms this is not the case.DIVORCE must become a REALITY and though it should not have been the case as no referendum was necessary,the PRIME MINISTER & LEADER of the OPPOSITION have to be CONGRATULATED for granting a FREE VOTE.In this respect congratulations too to JPO & JM for voting as their civil conscience dictated not as their Party behind the scenes implicitly imposed.TODAY MALTA BEGUN TO WAKE UP ON THIS DIVORCE ISSUE.
MAY 28,A SATURDAY,SHOULD BE ANOTHER HISTORICAL DAY even though a Referendum should have never been resorted to:this is not a vindictive battle to safeguard a particular religious institution,this is a dignified solution to a Marriage Dead & Buried!
J Demicoli
Mar 16th 2011, 13:50
I did'nt say a word about the divorce debacle up to now. What I would say now is that I will Not vote for any party that includes divorce as part of it's electoral promises even though I crave for a change.
This not for religious reasons but strictly for long term economical reasons.
What couples need and what in turn our country needs is better preparation before marriage. Non has suggested this. At least if someone did it was not as voiceferous as their argument for divorce!! So Joseph Muscat would be more credible if he suggests ways and means of how to prepare spouses for their lifelong vows before they commit themselves.
S. Calleja (Melbourne)
Mar 16th 2011, 13:47
"When the people opted to join the EU, they did not opt just to join an institution, but they made a social option for civil rights based on European concepts. The European values included solidarity, inclusion, democracy, equality and tolerance."
Thus I cannot for the love of God ever understand why you campaigned and voted against Malta joining the EU.
Stephen Borg
Mar 16th 2011, 13:43
Xi hadd gharef qal li Gesu fil-bibbja qal li huwa kontra d-divorzju, ha nghidlek habib meta tikkwota , ikwota kollox, Gesu qal ukoll li dak li hu t'Alla tih lil Alla u dak li hu ta Cesri tih lil Cesri, qal ukoll li hazin min jisraq, li hazin min ikassbar liz-zghir u hazin ukoll min jigdeb , nahseb li dawn kollha jghoddu hafna ghal Malta.
Charles Spiteri
Mar 16th 2011, 13:41
Dear Dr. Muscat
I agree with you that there is a need to empathize with those who are suffering.
With regards to your statement for the need of a more European and modern society, I believe that above all one needs to follow his conscience and one's own belief, and that as Christians, we are called to follow the teachings of Jesus Christ, not only when it suits us but always to the best of our ability. I cannot judge of anyone, but regretfully, many who claim that they are Christians, publicly and bluntly reject the teachings of Jesus, who clearly stated that divorce is only permissible in the case of an illicit marriage - i.e. there are grounds that prove that the marriage never existed. Who are we to try and distort Jesus' teachings? Perhaps an intellectual out there or one of the MPs in favour of divorce may help me to understand better?
c falzon
Mar 16th 2011, 13:41
Thalltux u tkomplux tgerfxu, id divorzju x ghandu x jaqsam ma l abort!!! Joseph Muscat from the beginning he declared that he is AGAINST abortion at all costs. Well done.
Theresa Bartolo Parnis
Mar 16th 2011, 13:40
R. Spiteri and A. Farrugia, how refreshing to hear someone state things as they are. This is exactly the point, that this is not a religious issue and the catholic church won't and shouldn't ever condone divorce, yet it is still something necessary when it comes to the state. If I go to another Sunday mass where the divorce issue is biasedly shoved down my throat, I think I will just stop going. Whilst I admire Mr. Muscat's determination to stick to his principles and take a stand, which is often almost impossible in the stalemate political situation we keep finding ourselves in, he ruins it all with his "European" stand, as abortion won't and shouldn't be accepted no matter how European it may be.
A. Farrugia
Mar 16th 2011, 16:53
Thanks for your feedback on my comment, appreciated. I believe this is the way these issues need to be debated, without political and/or religious blindfolding that do not permit one to see the full scale of the issues at hand. Divorce legislation should be seen within the socio-cultural context we live in today, and not as some 'evil thing that will make us unholy'.
MIchael Piccinino
Mar 16th 2011, 13:38
How Can somone who was against Europe and is getting his party full of the ppl of the 80's tell us how to be true Europeans and modern?
P Gatt
Mar 16th 2011, 13:36
So everyone will campaign now - except the Chruch it seems which has so far kept a very low profile!
scerri j
Mar 16th 2011, 13:33
Let's hope that the divorce referendum will not be painted red , blue or any political colour.
Knowing us Maltese ...this will be a bit difficult !!
If any party leader is thinking of gaining any political adavntage , we are in for a farce.
As things are progressing with talks, debates on media etc ....the picture is making us citizens already fed up of listening .....
Godfrey Galea
Mar 16th 2011, 13:30
Viva Malta Lajka u Ewropea!
John J. Galea Axiak
Mar 16th 2011, 13:26
"Religion did not have a monopoly on values and this issue was not one of religion." !!!!!!
Gesu' Kristu qal LE ghad-divorzju lill-BNIEDEM mhux lin-Nisrani!!!! Id-Divorzju huwa DNUB Sagrosant! Gesu qal ukoll li kliemna ghandu jkun Iva, Iva u Le, Le ghax dak kollu li huwa izjed minn hekk gej mill-hazen!!!! Min jappoggja d-Divorzju jiehu dak li haqqu fil-Gudizzju quddiem Alla.! Naf li qed ninstema ikrah, naf ukoll li se naqla kummenti u tghajjir peo ma jimpurtanix, anzi nifrah li nkun ippersegwitat minhabba dak li nemmen!
P. Bartolo
Mar 16th 2011, 13:24
Kif jista Joseph Muscat isejjah lilu Kattoliku u jmur kontra l-principji tar-Religjon Kattoliku??!! Ghandu dritt ikun favur id-divorzju pero ma jista qatt isejjah lilu nnifsu Kattoliku! Nistaqsi: kieku xi hadd imur kontra l-principji tal-PL, x'jigri? Bi dritt jitkecca mill-partit - jew almenu ahjar ikollu d-dicenza li jitlaq hu mill-partit - ghax jew jobdi r-regoli tal-partit jew ma jistax jissejah membru tal-partit. Dan fi kwalunkwe organizazzjoni - jew toqghod ghar-regoli jew warrab. Allura lil Dr Muscat nghidlu li ghandu dritt ikun favur id-divorzju pero ma jista qatt jibqa jghid li hu Kattoliku meta qed imur kontra principju baziku tar-Religjon Kattolika: Dak li ghaqqad Alla m'ghandux jifirdu l-bniedem!!!!
Bonello Peter
Mar 16th 2011, 13:23
At last a bout of fresh.
Stephen Borg
Mar 16th 2011, 13:23
It is important that the view of the Catholic Church, should be heard on public matters. It is also important to recognise that there is a distinction between the role of a church and the role of the State. A church is a voluntary association. People are free to be part of it and follow its teaching or not. The State is a compulsory association and people have no choice but to follow the rules laid down by it. Therefore, the criteria used in deciding whether something should be church law should be different from those used in deciding whether something should be State law. In the case of church law, people have the freedom to be part of the church or not. In the case of State law, people have no choice but to abide by the law or leave the State. You cannot transpose the teaching of any church into State law. There is a clear distinction between the function and role of the two institutions. Though equally important they are different. So stop interfering into citizens private life, carry your burden and see yourslef in the mirror and let others to live their own choice.
Alfred Gatt
Mar 16th 2011, 13:21
The irony of the choice of about being truly European is that the Labour Party did not want to be European when they campained for a NO vote for the EU.
J Brincat
Mar 16th 2011, 13:19
@G Farrugia
Agree! But seems we are stuck forever in the mud and cannot move on.
carl lanzon
Mar 16th 2011, 13:19
I understand the strong statements made by Dr. Muscat. He can very easily and flexibly talk about divorce. However, it is evident that he is not as much eloquent when it comes to dealing with international crisis.
Dr. George Abela , as a PL voter and supporter, I can assure you that we are really missing your leadership qualities in our party. We need you to lead our party. No one else can ever save our party from another failure in the forthcoming election.
marija falzon
Mar 16th 2011, 16:18
Yes, Sure. Mur emmnek!
J Brincat
Mar 16th 2011, 13:16
The whole world must be laughing at us. Divorce was on the agenda of the rest of the world more than two decades ago!
When shall we shed all those cobwebs from our eyes and start living in the new world which, mind you, is not without its troubles?
j.cassar
Mar 16th 2011, 13:15
Those PL members that are against divorce should not vote in favour of this motion, if they vote in favour they will show that they prefer more their parliamentary seat than their values, values should prevail above all. Do not be afraid of the party, Dr. Vassallo should be the first to vote against this motion since the question being proposed is made to confuse those against divorce. Sow now that you are a rear practising catholic.
K.Lia
Mar 16th 2011, 13:14
It all depends what sort of society you aspire to. Yes marriages do break down, and at an increasingly speedy rate. Divorce has not yielded stronger families wherever this was introduced. Indeed, the familal unit is now replaced by an emphasis on relationships which, in themselves, indicate lack of commitment and flexibility in duration. Truly a consumistic society.
P Gatt
Mar 16th 2011, 13:13
Why don't all the memeber of parliaments with a different view to JPO submit an amendment to the Bill. Then we can have multple questions in the referendum.
Mario Paul Ellul
Mar 16th 2011, 13:11
So Muscat is going to militate against the unification of the family!!!!!!!! ... good eh !!!
Karl Consiglio
Mar 16th 2011, 13:09
I thought PL wanted the choice to be truly Swiss, whatever that meant, OK so they like the European way after all? Imbasta the fuss they used to make against it.
Karl Consiglio
Mar 16th 2011, 13:08
I thought PL wanted the choice to be truly Swiss, whatever that meant, OK so they like the European way after all? Imbasta the fuss they used to make against it.
Ganni Ellul
Mar 16th 2011, 13:08
u jekk il poplu jghid le ghad divorzju, tirrizenja? jew ser tispjega il mistoqsijja bhal ma Alfred Sant spjega is CET?
m vella
Mar 16th 2011, 13:03
Prosit Dr Muscat, very well said.
d.attard
Mar 16th 2011, 13:01
i like the holistic acro vision set by muscat. I found it amusing how yesterday dr gatt informed us that the government would consytruct some 200 streets...this is a bread and bother basic obligation to build streets where houses are built...what next? that street sweeper swept Triq so and so will make a headline? We need a serious reality check and muscat's appraoch as i see it seems to bode well.
S. Sultana
Mar 16th 2011, 14:29
"Bread and bother"??????
G Farrugia
Mar 16th 2011, 12:53
diskors b'vizjoni moderna. ma nistghux nibqghu nghixu f'pajjiz fundamentalista. wasal iz zmien f'socjeta demokratika u fejn il-knisja hi separata mill-istat li in-minoranza ikollha lehen ukoll fis-socjeta taghna. minn bi sfortuna z-zwieg tieghu falla ghandu ikollu d-dritt ghat-tieni cans irrelevanti kemm din il-minoranza hi zghira.
fil-parlament, l-oghla istituzzjoni tal-pajjiz dibattitu socjali rridu nisimghu u mhux encikliku u ittri pastorali.
S. Degabriele
Mar 16th 2011, 13:57
Wasal iz-zmien fejn il-knisja ma tindahalx aktar fejn ma jassahiex u thalli lin-nies liberi li jiddeciedu huma jekk isegwux ir-religjon jew le. Din il-fissazzjoni li ma nafux nahsbu b'mohhna imma irid jigi xi hadd ibellalna li jrid trid tinqata. Bicciet min-nies li jikkummentaw hawnhekk urew li ghadhom lura f'dak iz-zmien meta kont tara qassis fit-triq u jmorru ibusulu idejh u jinzlu ghal kuBtejhom. Iz-zmien tana parir imma u rajna taht hafna dwal differenti kif igibu ruhhom certu nies li jpingu lilhom infushom bhala qaddisin.
john borg
Mar 16th 2011, 12:52
Thank you Dr Joseph Muscat for giving us a free vote. Will you give us a free vote at election time too?
You really showed your true colours in your speech today.
Morna lura ghall-interdett u d-dfin fil-mizbla, u tajtna lecture dwar kemm int iggwidat minn principji kattolici.....
s schembri
Mar 16th 2011, 13:54
"Mhux min jghidli Mulej Mulej jidhol fis saltna ta Alla imma min jaghmel ir rieda ta missieri", u min irid jifhem ha jifhem!
G.Portelli
Mar 16th 2011, 12:52
Look who s talking about being truly European! To be truly European we should take care of our values.
S. Degabriele
Mar 16th 2011, 13:54
Ehe u tkun l-iktar pajjiz antikwat. Ghadkom tghixu fil-medjuevu. Taf fejn huma il-valuri siehbi?? Meta ma timponix dak li trid int fuq haddiehor u turi rispett lejn haddiehor u mhux tkun egoist.
Rosalina Mifsud
Mar 16th 2011, 12:52
I have only a simple comment to make; when men make a rule, there is always God's rule before it.
David Caruana
Mar 16th 2011, 13:34
Some of us DO NOT believe in God
G Borg
Mar 16th 2011, 12:50
'...Malta should start the process to modernise society so that the country would be truly European....' If I remember correctly, THIS was not YOUR advice a few years ago, was it, dear Joe? If we become European in EVERYTHING, we might be labled 'MADE IN BRUSSELS'!
Another thing! Are we to copy EVERYTHING they do in Europe, even what is destroying European families? So, according to you, the more broken families we have, the more unfaithfulness, violence, etc, the more MODERN EUROPEANS we become!
Reno Spiteri
Mar 16th 2011, 12:50
As is stated in the feature "Religion does not have a monopoly on values, and the issue of divorce is not one of religion". Parliamentarians and other do-gooders who insist in trying to shove their believes down peoples throats should not be participants within a secular state.
Religion, the same as political believes, is strictly personal, and should never be allowed to interfer with peoples personal lives, happiness and aspirations.
Responsible legislation yes, of course. Debates and discussions based simply on religious believes as seen and practiced by certain individuals (bigots) certainly not.
What is good for X might not be good for Y, so what right has X got to prevent Y from living his or her life the way they chose. And who gave him this right to decide for everyone else? The age of the Inquisition is long gone, but it seems that we still have a good selection of modern day Thomas de Torquemada's around.
Pat Hobson
Mar 16th 2011, 12:49
The Usual PN and anti-divorce scaremongering. Bringing the abortion issue in the divorce issue. Truly they're running out of ideas and arguments. In Malta, abortion, whether with a PN or a PL in government is a no-go!
P Borg
Mar 16th 2011, 13:14
Why is it that aborition in Malta is no go? (!)
Quote: "Is it not a minority right?... Is it not a Civil Right?.... Why is this choice open to all those who can afford it overseas?..... Is it a choice of being truly European?.... Why isn't this also part of the process to modernise society so that the country would be truly European, and not just on paper?"
S. Degabriele
Mar 16th 2011, 13:59
I would like to ask those scaremongers rightly mentioned about this?
Abortion kills a human being - fair enough so it's totally wrong BUT
who gets killed with divorce?
No one, only the church's pockets.
MBorg
Mar 16th 2011, 14:06
" In Malta , abortion whether with a PN or a PL in government is a no-go. "
Don't be so sure, these things start slowly, one follows the other. Other countries started with divorce first. They then started complaining that abortion and euthanasia where human rights. The same will happen in Malta . Marriages will breakdown, separations will increase. Cohabiting couples will increase. The number of children born out of wedlock will go up. Once moral values get lost anything is possible, including abortion.
It happened in other countries it will happen here.
J Brincat
Mar 16th 2011, 12:48
@C. Briffa
How can we go back to the Dark Ages? Remember that we have a 'par idejn sodi' at the helm!
Mark Galea
Mar 16th 2011, 12:46
Dan l-istess Joseph ta qabel it-2004? Jew kull possibilta li tezisti biex jirbah l-elezzjoni juzaha?
Paul Borg
Mar 16th 2011, 12:45
Dr. Muscat I think you are not in a position to define what is being European given that you have fought against Malta joining the EU.
Secondly if you are truly European give a free vote to your LP colleagues on the motion you presented.
A.Magri
Mar 16th 2011, 13:04
Voila. The reason why this country will never change.
J Brincat
Mar 16th 2011, 12:44
@M Attard
Stick to the subject!
R. Azzopardi
Mar 16th 2011, 12:43
Look who's talking about being modern... someone who's welded in the "days of glory" of the 70s and 80s! Being pro-divorce has absolutely nothing to do with being modern.
s schembri
Mar 16th 2011, 12:59
Infact divorce is also mentioned in the bible, and Jesus said black on white that divorce goes against the will of God. So Dr. Muscat you are not being progressive.
mario gellel
Mar 16th 2011, 12:40
MELA IL-KNISJA MA QALTILKHOMX LI JEKK NIDHLU FIL EU GHADNA DRITT TAD-DIVOZJU?
POSSIBLI DAQSEK KIEN GHAWN '''GAHANIJIET''????????
J Farrugia
Mar 16th 2011, 15:37
Id-divorzju jidholx f'Malta jew le hija ghazla tal-Maltin u hadd ma jindahal .. la l-ewropa u l-inqas hadd. Jekk irriduh ahna jidhol jekk ma rriduhx ma jidholx. Dan peress illi d-divorzju mhuwiex dritt civili imma disastru nazzjonali. Anke l-qori ewropeja ddikjarat illi d-divorzju mhuwiex dritt civili imma hsara rreparabbli ghall-istat. U bhala bniedem li tobghod il-Knisja Kattolika zzeffiniex fejn qatt ma qalet xejn milli qed tohlom int.
C. Farrugia
Mar 16th 2011, 12:40
Hon Muscat so with the same tine of reasoning, let us also have abortion and divorce should not be resticted at you are proposing but immediate and instant. We should also have same sex marriagnes, adoptions to same sex couples etc. I think you have let the cat out of the bag and have shown where you want to go and the values you are embracing. Not all that is European is perforce right.
Kenneth Grima
Mar 16th 2011, 12:58
@C.Frrugia. I am a Maltese Citizen married with a Dutch Men (gay marriage) in The Netherlands. If we wanted we could adopt we didn't beacuse we are not ready to do so. But if we had to, believe me we have nothing less then a heterosexual couple, most probably we can give care, love and attention much better. Me and my husband both had heterosexual parents and brought up with boy only siblings but it happened that we came out gay. Our parents gave us both the same upbringing as they gave to our brothers nothing less nothing more our brothers are straight we gay, noone's fault not ours and not even of our parents. So it doesn't mean that because one has gay parents he will be gay it is just the backward mentality that exist here on the island that says so. So yes there should be gay marriage and adoption by gay couples on this island.
J Brincat
Mar 16th 2011, 12:40
@A Vella
What convenience are you talking about? Dr Muscat declared from the outset that he was pro-divorce!
Timmy Farrugia
Mar 16th 2011, 12:39
this is not a case about religion but a question of whether people should have the right to divorce. even if you do not agree with divorce it does not mean that you cannot agree that someone else has the right to it.
M Attard
Mar 16th 2011, 12:38
Yeh right. Well done Dr Muscat. As usual non sence words from Dr Muscat. So why don't we introduce ABORTION as well to be truly European.?
Paul Barrett
Mar 16th 2011, 12:55
Abortion and Divorce are in no way linked and it really is absolutely below the belt to try and tie them together.
Abortion is a form of extermination - it takes away the chance of life.
Divorce takes nothing away but gives the people an option to legitimately and legally take responsibility in the form of a civil marriage.
AVella
Mar 16th 2011, 12:36
I remember a very different Joseph Muscat in 2004...quite truely anti-European...
he came a long way indeed...of learning from mistakes...or probably not...for his convenience in this situation
VV Bartolo
Mar 16th 2011, 12:53
mr a vella - the english saying goes "if you can't beat them join them" and that is what is being done. if now we form part of the EU, whether we like it or not we have to adjust to the european laws!
this goes as well to the MEPs elections which for the 2nd time in a row were won by the labour party.
it's no use crying over spilled milk!! la krejniha jkollna noqghodu ghaliha! our back then country leaders have only shown us one side of the coin!!!
J Brincat
Mar 16th 2011, 12:36
@ W Saliba
Yes, you are deviating and mixing things up!
J Brincat
Mar 16th 2011, 12:34
Hope that finally we would move on and be like the rest of the world and remain struck in the Dark Ages!
@ CBriffa.
Depends with which blinkers you see things!
C. Briffa
Mar 16th 2011, 12:41
Nahseb li issa dehlin fid-Dark ages.
W Saliba
Mar 16th 2011, 12:33
In my opinion this is the most unreasonable and unthought basis on which the divorce issue can be decided.
I don't want to deviate from the topic but as a comparison, Muscat's standard woule then be:
Abortion : Choice is about being truly European (as many EU nations have abortion)
A valid opinion could have been based on values, common good, civil rights but comparing divorce with being European yes or no, in my opinion a gaffe.
Bob Gauci
Mar 16th 2011, 12:32
What a stupid argument about "Truly European"!! I have never expected such ignorance from Dr. Muscat. Shame on him. Is he trying to add insult to injury. What does he know about being anything except what people what him to be!
Claude Lacoste
Mar 16th 2011, 12:30
Bravo, well said ! Divorce isn't a religious matter but a civil and democratic matter
Davd Muscat
Mar 16th 2011, 12:34
Divorce is more about in what family values you believe in. I think this is enough food for thought.
Claude Lacoste
Mar 16th 2011, 13:03
When a marriage is broken since 4 years, what values for this family ?
The simple separation method is hypocritical : these people cannot remarry for found, legally another family.
The divorce which isn't an easy or simple decision, allows to divorced persons to remarry and, above all, that their children be legally recognized.
l aquilina
Mar 16th 2011, 14:03
If that is the case, why do so many marry in church???
Claude Lacoste
Mar 16th 2011, 16:15
Because, about 1 church for 1 000 residents ! Maltese are humans like others and "errare humanum est" ... even they contract religious marriage ..."perseverare diabolicum"
KJ Tabone
Mar 16th 2011, 16:26
@ I aquilina
Many do it for the sake of tradition, to please the families and/or their partner. I have friends who are agnostic but would marry in a church because it's what their partner wants.
John Borg
Mar 16th 2011, 12:30
Joseph,
The Choice is about being Christian and Catholic and European.
Being a Soverign Nation in The European Union we have the option to convince other European countries to remove their divorce laws for their better future.
In a nutshell - It does not automatically mean that Europe is right in everything (including divorce and abortion) and we can (or better still - must) also be a force of change.
regards
Davd Muscat
Mar 16th 2011, 12:36
It is never to be accepted a choice between being european and being chatolic. the two things should be able to exist in one without too many conflicts..
A. Farrugia
Mar 16th 2011, 12:39
First off: thallatx hass mal-gass. Abortion is one thing, and I'd be the first to protest against this if by 'europeanisation' we go down that path. Divorce is another - I agree that it is needed given the circumstances we have brought upon ourselves. Some people have no other option but divorce, and this should not be denied to them lest we prefer more hypocrisy and abuse of the annulment procedure.
Secondly: Divorce is NOT a religious issue and it will have NO effect on religious marriage. No sacrament will be diluted as a result of civil divorce... The sacrament won't be annulled, it will still be recognised as valid and legally divorced couples will still be deemed as married individuals according to the Church. Those who opt for divorce KNOW that they're breaking some ties with the Church as a result. This is how things stand, this sacrament is indissoluble, unlike the one ordaining priests. But heck, that's a different story, ey? That can be dissolved, noooo problem!! That aside - divorce legislation will ONLY dissolve the civil union that legally takes place when a couple wed, and the sacrament will remain. Happy?
It's NOT a religious issue.
N. S Tanti
Mar 16th 2011, 14:04
Dream on John Borg
So you are saying that one country a tiny rock in the mediterranean could force other giant countries to move backwards instead of onwards.
This is called dreaming in fairytales. Get real please
C.Briffa
Mar 16th 2011, 12:29
Ara vera diskorss bla sens, l-aqwa li hu kattoliku???
C.Camilleri
Mar 16th 2011, 12:49
Habib IVA kattoliku prattikanti huwa dak li ma jimponiex fuq haddiehor, bhal ma qed jaghmel il PN meta qed jghid LE ghal dawk li verament ghnadhom bzonn id-divorzju.
Richard Cassar
Mar 16th 2011, 13:09
Mela min hu kattoliku? Min jirranga biex min jigi minnu jkun jista' jgib separazzjoni darba darbtejn bla ebda xkiel ta' xejn u fi zmien rekord? Min ghandu l-flus biex ixahham lil xi hadd biex igib is-separazzjoni malajr? Jew min ghandu l-flus biex isiefer u jgib divorzju minn barra? Mhux billi taghti fuq sidrek u titla' titqarben f'kull opportunita' (basta jarawk in-nies). Ir-religjon u l-imhabba lejn il-Hanin Alla u lejn il-proxxmu trid tipprattikha u mhux tlablabha biss. Prosit Joe Muscat. Jien ma nzommx mieghek imma fuq din tad-divorzju ghandek mitt ragun u, kif kien jghid xi hadd, "Is-Sewwa jirbah Zgur".
mary Lou
Mar 16th 2011, 13:30
Diskors fuq il- VALURI Well Done Joseph ahna warajk
mary Lou
Mar 16th 2011, 13:34
Kemm mankunx iktar kattoliku jekk naf li jkun hemm min qed jinhaqar u nista bil vot tieghi naghmel id-differenza lil individwu x dik tghidilha ma nahsibx li mort kontra l- kelma ta Alla anzi nahseb jien nghin u nghder li haddiehor dik mhix religjon kattolika jghidulha.
S. Degabriele
Mar 16th 2011, 13:53
Man, nawguralek issib ir-risposta ghal kull problema li ghandek u jista jkollok fil-hajja. Ibqghu ghixu minn fuq dak il-ktieb tal-fairytales. Mela kattoliku, u kif qallek xi hadd iehor, kattoliku ikun min ma jikkundannax, min mhux egoist u min ma jiggudikax lil haddiehor ghax ma jaqbilx mieghek. Din demokrazzija u pajjiz immexxi mill-politika u mhux mill-knisja. Hawnhekk la hu is-Saudi Arabia fejn kollox jimxi skond il-ligi musulmana u l-anqas il-vatikan. Dan pajjiz liberu fejn kulhadd jahseb li jrid. Ghall-inqas Muscat ma joqghodx jibza li jitlef il-voti tal-knisja u jaqbad u jghid x'jahseb ghad-differenza ta Gonzi li kull ma jaghmel biex jinghogob minn xi erba qaddisin li jidhrilhom li jafu hafna.
Tajtu tant bil-kattolicizmu, mela accettaw lil haddiehor hu kif hu. Minghalikom li intom xi profeti jew xi nies perfetti. Halluhom lin-nies jaghmlu li jridu. Tindahlux fil-hajja ta haddiehor.
M Vassallo
Mar 16th 2011, 14:14
@C Camilleri
Min hu kattoliku jibza ghal dak li ghandu hu u ta madwaru
Ray Gatt
Mar 17th 2011, 09:56
Bla sens huwa min jipprovaw jimponi fuq haddiehor bhal ma ghamlu tant dittaturi. Dak bla sens. Ipokrizija. Bhal l-arcipriet ta Haz-Zebbug meta hareg il-poster daqsiex fuq iz-zuntier bil-klienm li "Alla huwa kontra id-divorzju". Kien missu pogga poster iehor faccata tieghu li kellu jghid li "Alla kontra il-paedofelija li saret u ghada issir mil-qassisin u l-patrijiet". IPOKRITI.