Libya requests return of Mirage fighters

Karl Consiglio

Feb 26th 2011, 21:34

Finders keepers, losers weepers!

C Vella

Feb 26th 2011, 11:41

Oh my God all for Gonzi these decisions!??? This is worst than the divorce issue!!!!!

Pierre Stagno Navarra

Feb 26th 2011, 08:42

Indeed strange to see all these neutrality comments here, yet no such comments on the article about the RAF bringing home 3 Maltese nationals.. Are we Maltese going to it on the fence perpetually? Isn't there even the slightest remorse that successively our governments cozied up to Gaddafi for the sake of cheap oil?

Pule' Carmel

Feb 25th 2011, 18:08

It is so easy to accidentaly knock off a blade or two from the compressor or turbine stage!

DGalea

Feb 25th 2011, 14:50

I am sure that right now, both the goverment and the opposition are four square behind any decision that ultimately benefits Malta and its interests first and foremost.

The mirages should be kept here until the international community decides who , at present is actually representing the goverment in Libja.

At present the country is dividedin the eastern region run by a mob with no apparent leader(so far) and a western region run by an authoritarian goverment on its last legs.

Tiny Malta cannot make decsions right now that it may rue in the future. If we go rushing in where angels fear to thread right now, no one in the EU will speak up in our support , any more then we can rely on solidarity from the EU if we end up being inundated by a huge wave of migrating refugees that will prove too much for our present resources.

Malta should carry on with the eccellent service it has provided so far by providing a safe haven and a helping hand (with the cooperation of other countries)to all those wanting to leave Libja, whilst the Libjans themselves decide their own future with the least possible bloodshed possible.

DVella

Feb 25th 2011, 14:06

I guess we could always dismantle the two Mirages, pack the bits into a couple of forty-foot containers . . . and send them back . . . That way, if re-assembled they would have to be tested and certified as airworthy before being used again and that is not likely to happen in the next few months . . .

Cecil Herbert Jones

Feb 25th 2011, 11:52

I see a barrage of opinions posted here, and although it's a healthy forum, it will not weight anything in the end. The decision is in the hands of the PM. I wouldn't wish to be in his shoes right now, having taken the initiative to visit Gaddafi just ahead of the turmoil to assure him of Malta's friendship, and now Gaddafi himself puts it to the test. We'll see.

C Azzopardi

Feb 25th 2011, 11:46

Gaddafi doesnt need these 2 Mirages to kill/fight/protect himself from the uprising - he can kill thousands with his tanks & the rest of his air fleet if he gets crazy enough.

Gaddafi will not attack Malta whatever the reply is - he s already having a hard time holding his own in his home ground ... let alone giving a reason for the US & EU to gang-bang Libya!!

Our only worry is the thousand of immigrants that will get a free pass from Libya to Malta when weather conditions get better. Think ..

Andrew Mumford

Feb 25th 2011, 11:14

Perhaps we could just say that they have been towed, and that there are some very large outstanding fines to be paid?

John Agius

Feb 25th 2011, 10:40

Who is thew Libyan Government?

Bernard Mamo

Feb 25th 2011, 10:13

dismantle them, or disable them in a way that they cannot be used unless lots and lots of work is done on them, then return them. that way it will take them ages to fix them and then maybe the turmoil would be over. we have to keep to interenational regualtions, but in the same time win some time!

C Magri

Feb 25th 2011, 10:10

Don't understand this at all. How can it say the Libyan Government has formally requested the planes back, then say the Maltese foriegn ministry has had no contact with Libya? Who asked for them back then?

Paul Savona

Feb 25th 2011, 10:05

"The Libyan government has formally requested the return of two Mirage F1 fighter jets flown to Malta by defecting pilots on Monday."
or
"A Foreign Ministry spokesman said there has been no contact with the Libyan government on the fighter aircraft."

Which is it???????

joseph saliba

Feb 25th 2011, 10:01

No time for panic stations now. Do you mind shutting 'em up?

Norman Tonna

Feb 25th 2011, 09:41

I would never send these aircraft back until all Maltese & Gozitans are accounted for and sent safely back to Malta. They are expensive weapons to negotiate a deal with whoever ends up in charge.

Sandra Borg

Feb 25th 2011, 09:34

@ Edgar Borg: You iving in cuckoo land or what?

A.Portelli

Feb 25th 2011, 09:26

The last thing they need now are two fighter jets fully armed.
Sure they belong to Libya, but the planes should be give back to a legitimate Libyan Government.
And things are not so clear at this time.
I say just wait......

Michael Neville Cassar

Feb 25th 2011, 09:05

When there is peace YES you will get them back not Before. We don’t won’t to be responsible in front of the World and God for murders.

Christian Sciberras

Feb 25th 2011, 08:59

Well, it was too true to be good anyway.

Anthony Farrugia

Feb 25th 2011, 08:53

These aircraft should be disabled to render them unable to fly.

Joseph Scicluna

Feb 25th 2011, 08:49

This is a very delicate matter. Both the government and the opposition should put their heads together to solve this problem.

David Caruana

Feb 25th 2011, 08:43

I hope that everyone realises that this is a very difficult situation. We need to remember that there's still a number of Maltese people in Libya and we don't want them to suffer any kind of retaliation because of 2 jet fighters

j borg

Feb 25th 2011, 08:25

Sure - but will return them to eastern libya

A. Mifsud

Feb 25th 2011, 08:23

The situation is not an easy one for the government. It could very well had been the case that the Libyan Arab aircraft that was denied landing in Malta two days ago, consisted in a crew of pilots and personnel to fly the two fighters back to Libya at this stage

Therefore it is not up to any of us to decide what should be done, this is where dipomacy has to prevail. Either way there will or there could be serious repercussions. If Libya's request is turned down there could be some form of retaliation, not necessarily in form of an attack as some are fearing - a situation which I would consider unlikely - but perhaps in other subtle ways (impeding airmalta to continue to operate flights / or catamarans to leave to name a few). On the otherhand giving in to Libya's request would mean sending potential weoponary to use against innocent citizens. It's tricky sad situation for the government unfortunately.....

Ernest Vella

Feb 25th 2011, 08:21

Dawn jibqghu hawn...u meta jghaddi l-inkwiet jehduhom...mhux problema. Ghad trid isir investigazzjoni jekk hux vera jew le li dawn kienu ha jigu uzati biex jigu maqtula nies li bi dritt taghhom kienu qed jipprotestaw. Il-Gvern Libjan jara li l-Maltin huma safe u li jaslu lura Malta qawwijin u shah, u tibzax l-ajruplani jinghataw lura....ghalissa qeghdin safe f'idejn tajba. L-armata ghanda zzied il-prezenza madwar dawn l-ajruplani. Forsi il-kaxxa s-sewda taghhom hemm ir-recording ta x'kellhom jaghmlu li jkunu fuq il-folla.

a scerri

Feb 25th 2011, 08:11

How about passing on the mirage fighters to the UN for safe keeping till the trouble is over.
Libya can then deal with them.

M Formosa

Feb 25th 2011, 07:56

NO WAY! God I hope the Maltese government won't stoop to such, for what, so that he could use them against his own people or even at us, given the chance. He can go screw himself.

J Brincat

Feb 25th 2011, 07:44

I do not know what the protocol says about this matter but I would be very hesitant to return these fighters with the knowledge that they would be used to bombard their own people indiscriminately.

Edgar Borg

Feb 25th 2011, 07:27

The most christian thing to do is give them back.We should follow the teaching of the bible and not take or keep anything that does not belong to us. After all its the people of Libya who paid for them.

DGalea

Feb 25th 2011, 00:47

which Libjan goverment is requesting the return of the Mirages? The new Islamist one stationed in Bengazi or the remnants of Gheddafi's Jamaharija based in Tripoli?

L AGIUS

Feb 25th 2011, 00:40

What ever the government decides on this matter , keep the Maltese priorities , bring back all the Maltese from Lybia AND.... WE WILL STAND BY YOU ....!!

C.Tabone

Feb 25th 2011, 00:13

I do hope that our government has the moral aptitude to realise that before any legal obligations we have the moral responsibility to protect the lives of countless innocent civilians whose only ‘crime’ is that they yearn to be free from tyranny. I am ashamed when I read comments urging our government to grant the request of a regime lead by a madman. Our flag bears the words For Gallantry because we chose to fight evil against all odds, our deeds today should bear testimony that we are still worthy of those two words..

J. Vella

Feb 24th 2011, 23:46

Let them come for them then!

These aircraft are part of the alleged 12 such Mirages that are still serviceable. The total complement Libya had bought from France (in three batches) was around 16 aircraft. It's already a marvel they can still fly.
If my memory is correct, the Alouette helicopters currently flown by our Armed Forces were donated by Libya after France had originally refused them the sale of spare parts as part of the UN embargo.

frank grech

Feb 24th 2011, 23:35

Of course, Malta should return the jets, BUT to a democratically elected government in Libya!

J Fava

Feb 24th 2011, 23:23

Time for thinking. If we send them back, the rest of the world wouldn't like it and if we don't send them back, I guess the Libyans won't appreciate that much...

c stevenson

Feb 24th 2011, 23:21

are the pilots aware that as enlisted serviceman they cannot claim political asylum.re geneva convention

Joseph W. Galea

Feb 24th 2011, 23:04

These planes should stay in Malta until there is an established new government in Libya. Right now, the government is in chaos. So there is really no one to return the planes to.
Ghaddafi is not the Libyan ruler anymore.

Tony MARSH

Feb 24th 2011, 22:55

Haven't seen any Ryanair or Easyjet planes going to get stranded people in Libya.......
It's in situations like this that the real airlines stand out.

J. Farrugia

Feb 24th 2011, 22:25

A catch-22 if there ever was one! Send them back and innocent lives might be lost or keep them and they just might come looking for them! The answer to what we should do might be simpler than deciding what's right or wrong... These 2 jets and the pilots are part of an investigation so we can't just hand them over, right? A vessel that facilitated the act by which an investigation was needed in the first place is now part of that investigation. Extradition processes are lengthy and cumbersome and only starts once the investigation is complete. As such there is no need for delaying tactics (such as ignoring requests and risk upsetting people) cause the process is a delay in its own right. Are there Maltese prisoners in Libya we have been negotiation extradition for? same thing applies... what does everyone else think?

alfred grina

Feb 24th 2011, 22:16

Have you seen todays' TVM news? It said that yesterday's rejected Libyan Arab Airlines ATR42 had on board pilots and ground crew for the mirages!!!! Something fishy was onboard as it would not have been rejected.
I may ask why have these fighters been parked in the open, just a stone throw away from the fence? Why haven't the rocket launchers with live ammo not been removed?
Is security good enough with these aircraft?

j.camenzuli

Feb 24th 2011, 22:02

The planes are Libyian property. Eventually when things calm down they will be returned to Libya. The pilots case is a different story. It is more than likely they will stay here or go to a country of their choice. They can't go back to their country for the simple reason the moment they step on Libyian soil they will be shot for defecting.

carmel pace

Feb 24th 2011, 21:52

Since we have two catamarans in Tripoli, many maltese still scattered around Libya and air malta flying in and out do you think it would be at all possible if you all could refrain from blogging on this topic.

thank u

Martin Cassar

Feb 24th 2011, 21:50

Interested to know where Malta stands and how the EU promotes peace in North Africa?
Read this scandal please:

http://euobserver.com/9/31853/?rk=1

c borg

Feb 24th 2011, 21:43

If the Maltese govt had no contact with the Libyan Govt regarding the Jets, my question would then be, to whom did the Libyans made the formal request???

Steve Zammit

Feb 24th 2011, 21:40

We shouldn't return back until the unrest is over...who knows what they could use them for!

Remember these are no toy planes. These are planes of destruction and their sole perpuse of creation is to kill and destroy

Mario Stellini

Feb 24th 2011, 21:38

The Chinese did something similar to a US air force plane some years ago when it had an emergency landing on Chinese territory. They told the US that they could not fly it out but had to disassemble the plane and get it out piece by piece by boat. If we do the same we will prevent them being used against civilians.

T Mifsud

Feb 24th 2011, 21:30

Just an important CAUTION to Air Malta :

Any flight to Tripoli by one of our aircraft may be seen as a potential bargaining currency by the Libyans. Judging by his erratic behavior, the Libyan government, whoever it might be right now, might impound our Airbus in Libya until the exchange for the Mirage fighters.

We should not give in!

The government can loose forever Malta's reputation if we return those fighters under any condition while there is Gaddafi, conflict or instability in Libya. It would be criminal!

Dr Francis Saliba

Feb 24th 2011, 21:29

We will next be asked to refuel the two Mirages, and to re-arm them, for a detour over Benghazi to rake it with a few machine gunning runs over the civilian population before returning to Tripoli.

s schembri

Feb 24th 2011, 21:28

These weapons should not be returned to Libya before the regime is ousted, peace, law and order restored and a proper and trusted administration is in control.

T.Scerri

Feb 24th 2011, 21:26

This regime has been playing with us about oil exploration for decades. We could not even drill for oil in the good old days of blood brothers and having to learn Arabic in school as a compulsory subject. So i think that we are justified in keeping the planes here if only for the reason of not contributing to the murder of innocent Libyans who are fighting for their freedom.

MuscatD

Feb 24th 2011, 21:21

We should use as much haste as they used when they were phoned to pick up illegal immigrants from their sector of the Med. According to Wikileaks they didn't even bother to pick up the phone.

Giving them the planes would make us accomplices in murder.

Jesmond Chetcuti

Feb 24th 2011, 21:14

Who is saying that Libya will attack Malta is having a laugh, the US Navy is monitoring every aircraft and boat leaving the coast of Libya, if their is only a suspicion that there is a threat from any Libyan planes attacking Malta they will not even enter Maltese territorial waters ,they will be shot down...I dont think the maltese goverment is not in touch with the US and other EU allies..

Wilfred Camilleri

Feb 24th 2011, 21:08

So that he can use them to kill more demonstrators?

VV Bartolo

Feb 24th 2011, 21:07

yes in exchange with all the maltese stranded in libya

Evarist Saliba

Feb 24th 2011, 20:56

This press report must be answered without any delay or equivocation.One sentence states clearly that the Libyan government has formally requested the return of the two fighters. Another says that there has been no contact with the Libyan government on the fighter aircraft.
The two versions contradict each other. I would also add that If such a request was made not in a formal manner or with regard the two pilots, this fact should not be hidden from the Maltese public. 
Irrespective of the manner in which such a request is made, there is only one decent reaction that our government should give. This should be that as long as there is fighting in Libya, and there are serious claims that government aircraft have been involved in these actions which have been condemned by the international community, the Maltese government cannot return these aircraft.

Manuel Micallef

Feb 24th 2011, 20:53

I say this;

Successive Maltese governments have asked Libya about oil drilling rights in the sea between Malta and Libya - and they always dragged their feet and ignored us.

Can we not ignore them a bit now?! (I am referring to the regime....)

Stephen Florian

Feb 24th 2011, 20:50

DESTROY THEM AND DO IT NOW.

H Grech

Feb 24th 2011, 20:50

What would the Maltese Government (and its people) get in compensation?

....Maybe some good discount on an oil consignment would be nice....


just a thought !

ASpiteri

Feb 24th 2011, 20:42

they can place a bid on maltapark!

geoffrey mifsud farrugia

Feb 24th 2011, 20:37

an interesting but obvious twist to the Mirage fighters saga. Now if we give them back, these planes might possibly be used to kill more civilians but if we don't we might end up having half the Libyan airforce attacking us!

A very delicate matter indeed!

A Vassallo

Feb 24th 2011, 20:29

Who is the Libyan government? And who will fly them back?

Manuel Micallef

Feb 24th 2011, 20:27

Personally, I will not pass these to Ghaddafi. I will either refuse the request until the turmoil is over, or I will drag our feet to reply.

It seems that these are used to bomb innocent people and protesters - and if we pass these to Ghaddafi, we will be accomplices. Malta should not be afraid to do what is right.

David Buttigieg

Feb 24th 2011, 20:23

Now let's see where we truly stand!

Reuben Abela

Feb 24th 2011, 20:22

this is a situation where any decision taken could be the wrong one

T Mifsud

Feb 24th 2011, 20:22

If Malta concedes to this request now it will be an accomplice in air to ground bombing of people!

Those fighters have entered Malta illegally and should thus be impounded. Secondly the case may be considered only when a NO FLY ZONE is in effect in Libya.

We need the Sixth Fleet near us ASAP