Hunters call for withdrawal of spring hunting proposals

Johnny Xerri

Feb 10th 2011, 10:02

again S Saliba...mention just one country that has halted hunting...I can confirm that hunting is practiced all over the world...please challange me and prove otherwise...

Secondly a dog and a bird having the having more or less the same physiology? Jezz when was the last time you ventured into the countryside and saw a quail or a turtle dove? The last time I shot a quail and a turtle dove they were rather different from the pointer that was retreiving them!!!

For the ill-informed and for the anti-hunting blinkered individuals, hunted game is cooked. True we would not starve without hunting, but will amatuer anglers starve without fish? Will snail collectors starve without snails? Will meat eaters starve if they go veggie?

As already stated, "You get your meat from the butcher store, I get mine from the field, I kill my meat, you simply pass the buck and pay someone else to do your 'crime'. But in the end an animal was still killed "

S. Saliba

Feb 10th 2011, 18:36

@ J. Scerri.... just because other countries do practice hunting, why should we do it if its morally wrong. i know that its unfair that EU allows other countries to hunt, but i find it complete torture. don't you find it torture that the english used to hunt down foxes for example? or deer? well tell me one difference between a life of a bird and a fox? I know there is difference between a bird and a dog... but there is no difference between the value of life of a bird and a dog. both have a brain, a heart, intestines, a stomach, a liver... why do you see a bird inferior to a dog for example? it is still an animal and its still animal torture, be it a bird, a dog, a rabbit and a mouse. Imagine you were born a bird, would you like to be shot?

S. Saliba

Feb 10th 2011, 18:40

@ J. Scerri....also, well if you hunt for eating i don't find it a bad thing because you do have to eat as well and its not killing an innocent animal just for fun. but unfortunately most hunters just do it for leisure, and just kill a bird even if they kill it and then let it rot were it falls or just throw it away. i know this because i know some hunters. they say that all their pleasure is just hitting the bird and see it falling down dead

Johnny Xerri

Feb 11th 2011, 22:40

The fact that you claim that hunting is morally wrong is worthless. What is morally wrong for you may not be so for me.

Moreover, hunting is not just the kill, but an activity that starts with habitat management, dog training, the hunt itself, the game cooking, apart from cartridge selection or reloading + other related activities. These are facts. Similiar to your claim that hunters just do it for the fun...I can claim that most anti hunters are doing so because they do not own any private countryside and so they want hunters away from the countryside so that they use their land. I have anti hunting contacts who have confessed that they want hunting banned, not because of the hunted game, but because this will free the country side (even the private) rom hunters and so they will be free to use it.

Secondly fox hunting is not banned in the UK. Foxes can still be shot all year round. The only ban was on hunting them with hounds. Deer was never baned, unlike your implication.

Since you ask, the difference between a dog and a bird is that birds are eaten whislt dogs are not.

Johnny Xerri

Feb 11th 2011, 22:49

Dear S Saliba,

Please answer without beating around the bush;

What makes a farmed animal guilty and a wild animal innocent?

Why can one buy & eat a farmed quail, but not hunt one himself?

Why can other EU countries hunt game, whilst the Maltese cannot?

Why can I go fishing and kill fish which will be eaten, yet cannot hunt and kill birds which will also be eaten?

Why should I have voted on a package which included hunting, then after the YES followers got what they wanted they are now casting us aside and not honouring their democratic obligation? (+plus their followers are inciting PN to break a democratic obligation)

Why should I have private land that has been managed for hunting by generations, and in order to hunt, I have to go abroad and spend €3000+ on a hunting holiday in the EU?

S. Saliba

Feb 12th 2011, 18:31

@ Johnny Xerri... first off... i didn't mean to say that deer hunting was banned.. what i meant was that for most people... deer hunting is morally wrong, and as for foxes, i knew there were restrictions but i didnt know that fox hunting was completely banned.. i appologized.
well i don't think that it's permissable for MEPA to hand over mizieb for example. i'm against hunting coz its torture of animals thats all i dont want to own any countryside whatsoever.
also i'm particularly against hunting for fun, not hunting for food.

S. Saliba

Feb 12th 2011, 18:47

1. farm animals are killed for food purpose. food is monitored, and hence most likely the amount of contaminations are likely to be lower than wild animals. also if you kill wild animals you are interfering with the nature food web/chain and hence influencing other species. an example of this is:
man hunting seals -> orcas found less food -> orcas started eating sea otters -> sea otters decreased in numbers -> sea urchins (otter's prey) increased in numbers -> sea weed (urchin food) decreased -> other species eating sea weed starved or found another food which disturbed other food chains.
this can also happen in birds.
that is why most naturalists are against hunting, coz it disturbs the equilibrium in nature. most species are extremely sensitive to human impacts.
2. its safer, wild animals may be contaminated... but i'm particularly against hobby hunting rather than eating what you hunt.
3. i live in malta not in other countries (i'm still against hunting in other countries)
4 most people eat fish, but most hunters just kill and taxoderm birds
5. i know its bad to cheat to get votes.. but i'm against the issue not politics

Johnny Xerri

Feb 14th 2011, 06:29

1. When you claim that farmed animals are les contaminated because they are controlled, you are just showing your lack of knowledge re hunting. How did 'mad cow start'? How did bird flu start? Did you hear about the dioxin found in german chicken, eggs, turkeys and pigs? The fact that a bird has migrated shows that it is in premium health, free from illness or contamination. Moreover, some farm grows and consumers have recognised the benefits of wild game and have reverted to emulate this through freerange farming.

2. The distrubance in the food chain, once again exposes that you are either misinformed or simply throwing arguments in the hope of posting a decent reply. Neither turtle doves nor quail are significant constituants of the food chain, since they are not preyed upon and they do not prey upon other animals/birds. Moreover, they are not of conservation concern (according to official EU data), so hunting (esp in Malta) would not effect population changes.

Johnny Xerri

Feb 14th 2011, 06:37

3. Once again through your comment on texidermy, you show your lack of knowledge on hunting matters. Turtle doves and quail are eaten, poached birds (illegally shot; birds of prey, waders, etc) that are not game birds are mounted. Who would want to mount the multiple examples of turtle dove and quail? By banning hunting on consumed species like turtle dove and quail, you would be opening a wide gate for poachers who would now be free to roam all hunting grounds, including those of honest hunters (who given a proper season would report poachers).

4. When you say that hunting is torture and that fishing is ok coz fish are eaten, once again shows your lack of knowledge. Through hunting game is dispatched cleanly and humanly, contrary to fishing in which fish are hauled by a hook that is embeded in their mouth, pulling not only their weight by also against their pull.

5. You d not agree with land handed over to hunters. Well hunters have a right to manage and use public land (not own) through hunting rights, just as much as the antis, since we also pay taxes (and licences) and form part of the public.

S. Saliba

Feb 14th 2011, 20:12

lol. lack of information? i've been studying biology for over seven years now! and on the contrary of you I have STUDIED conservation biology and not showing just my interest in my hobby. 1. the mad cow disease and bird flu were, yes, done in farming, however they were soon discovered and the farms that did that was confiscated and shut down etc etc. this was done only due to monotoring. also you never know if the birds you captured their food. ever wondered if they ate something rich in heavy metals? ever knew that these heavy metals are extremely bad for your health? 2. now i don't know much about the predators and preys of every bird (i'm not a bird enthusiast as such).. however what about birds of prey? also i do really wonder if doves don't have predators... i've seen documentaries about falcons eating doves in the wild for example. and please excuse me but i don't really believe that these animals don't eat anything... if they eat plants and nuts then they are also important for seed dispersal. 3. i'm not speaking only about doves and quails... but also about birds of prey

S. Saliba

Feb 14th 2011, 20:21

3 cont. also I don't believe that there is any organism in the world that doesn't have any prey or predators. (mind you in ecology, plants are also organisms and can also be considered as prey... and even predators at times) 4. what i said a thousand times already... is that i do not agree for hunting as a hobby... just shoot the bird and let it rot, or taxiderm it. well if you want to hunt and eat a bird, i don't see much difference than killing a bird on a farm and shooting it down AND EAT IT. unlike you some hunters just love killing a bird and let it rot for pleasure. 5. i don't really care about the land you own... i'm not against you having a public property etc etc but i'm against the fact that some of you hunters just kill a bird for fun. AGAIN, and hopefully for the last time... i don't really mind if hunting is allowed only for the sake of food. also regarding 2. most animals which are now protected were abundant before human interference. just take a look at the case of elephants and tuna

Johnny Xerri

Feb 10th 2011, 10:14

G Micallef, since you mentioned public land which you presumably cannot enjoy, I will take up your challange. On the eve of the opening of any season I will forward my details to the editor and as him to forward them to you. Then you are free to get in touch.

I will accompany you in the mentioned areas & verify if you are free to enjoy your hobby. You will accompany me in all the public land and verify if I can enjoy my hobby in all the public land.

You will notice that nearly all the public land is off limits either because it has been fenced off by BLM, or because it is a bird santuary, or because it is 50m from roads or 200m from buildings, or because it is heavily frequented by pinicers & ramblers leaving it unusable for hunting. Then you will know were the balance is.

BLM and the antis have over 45 bird santuaries, including 15 bays and creeks, andplenty of off limits for hunters. Yet hunters have only Mizieb as official hunting land, and even this has been targeted by BLM. Is that a balance?

Johnny Xerri

Feb 9th 2011, 20:58

apart from the fact that hunted game is eaten...so it is not simply about a few people killing birds...and moreover...

its about credibility of election manifestos...
its about a government not delivering what was stated black on white...
its about enjoying the samehunting rights as other EU member states...
its about using your own fields for the hobby you practice (same as in all EU member states)

Why should the Maltese hunter not enjoy his hobby and lifestyle its brings about...when another 7 million hunters from the EU are enjoying this hobby and lifestyle?

If you are ready to accept inferior rights...then I am sorry but I am not

Andrew Gatt

Feb 9th 2011, 16:15

Well said Martin! Every season the same stale, zilch-knowledge, couch commentators start showering us with their expertise - which, from what I've read today, would fit on a postage stamp with room to spare. The rest is stupidity, inaccuracy, hatred, intolerance and extremism.

And bet you that 90% of them think that meat, poultry and fish grow on supermarket shelves.

Johnny Xerri sure got it right a couple of years ago when he told it to you like it is - you're nothing more than a bunch of "contract killers", bleating and whining about GAME birds and those nasty hunters, whilst happily stuffing yourselves with McDonalds burgers or gorging on a juicy steak.

And most of your lifestyles probably leave carbon footprints the size of tennis courts behind you, wanna bet?

C Cassar

Feb 9th 2011, 17:18

"comments from antis, and a veggie". Well, well, well, you have shown your true colours, discrimination by what someone eats. Talk about shooting (no pun intended) yourself right in the foot. You mention the UK, so yes, let's look at it. A total ban on Fox hunting now in it's 6th year at the very least. That's because they have some idea of a civil society there. Sure they still hunt some birds but this is strictly controlled and is becoming more strict as the years go by. In most of the UK, most residents never hear a single shot fired against a wild bird and yet in Malta, the majority are subjected to this calous activity. Malta is TOO SMALL to support any kind of hunting whatsoever. If you want to hunt then go to a larger country although that won't absolve you of killing what isn't yours. With regards to meat, poultry and now most fish, these are farmed and not taken from the wild. So how many of the birds in Malta that are shot are taken purely for food? I'd say about zero. Thanks for digging yourself a nice hole.

Andrew Gatt

Feb 9th 2011, 17:34

@ C Cassar........thank YOU for showing us how holes are dug! In your wisdom and expertise, you mention the UK to justify your crusade. Lousy choice! The same UK that still shoots, gasses and poisons foxes. The same UK that seems close to reviewing the hunting (with DOGS and HORSES, C Cassar) ban you mention. The same UK that shoots in excess of 22 MILLION birds yearly. The same UK that shoots 24/7/365, all year round, Spring, Summer, Autumn Winter. The same UK that applies over a THOUSAND derogations each year. Some example you chose. Malta? Well, actually.........the VAST MAJORITY of shot game birds are eaten and they taste a hell of a sight better than the packed-tight, force-fed, artificially enhanced, medicine-stuffed, battery-bred stuff in supermarkets. Reared to be eaten, from the egg to the early grave. Give me those veggies any day. They stick to their principles of not eating any meat, as much as I stick to my principles: obeying the law, respecting Nature, while taking/eatimg my share . The rest of you holier-than-thou bleeding hearts are nothing but drones who let others do their killing, out of sight and out of mind. How convenient. How hypocritical.

D. Farrugia

Feb 9th 2011, 18:03

With all due respect, I am totally in favour of sustainable hunting despite not being a hunter and despite being a "veggie". See for example my reply to C Cassar from the link provided hereunder: http://www.timesofmalta.com/articles/view/20110209/local/3-4-million-secured-for-management-planning-of-natura-2000-sites Being a vegetarian does not imply being anti-hunting, and vice versa.

George Gauchi

Feb 9th 2011, 18:45

@ C Cassar, First of all hunting has been going on in Malta before you and I were born, so you should have got used to it by now and you have no right to tell people if they want to hunt to go to other countries,like me,not far from where I live there is a football-ground and it was build when I was young and the noise on the week-end annoys me so what should I do,go and tell them to go somewhere else to play,ofcourse not they have their right to play same thing for the hunters they have their right to hunt after all they pay a licence to do so,and for the UK residents,it`s a billion Sterling turn-over from hunting (shooting) tourism alone,just check on the net and you will find out for yourself. http://www.shootinguk.co.uk/galleries/selected/code/GALLERIES/id/10255/page/4/title/shooting-pictures http://www.shootinguk.co.uk/galleries/selected/code/GALLERIES/id/10255/page/9/title/shooting-pictures http://www.africanindaba.co.za/Conservation/bauer_herr_hunting_tourism.pdf

S. Saliba

Feb 9th 2011, 21:33

@ Andrew Gatt... theres a difference between meat you eat (coz otherwise you will die) and life you kill just for fun. and yes, hunting can change drastically the environment... a case of this is the hunting of seals...

when there was hunting of seals, orcas found less food to eat so they changed their diet and started eating otters... now otters used to eat on sea urchins which in turn ate sea weed... when orcas started eating otters, sea urchins rose in numbers, and nearly wiped out all of the sea weed. in turn other animals which fed on sea weed starved to death and got wiped out. sea otters became rare, and sea urchins, finding less food crashed in population numbers. this can also happen in the case of birds.

so, before you state something like exaggeration bla bla bla... these are facts, scientists know what they are doing. this is why we should disturb least as possible the environment. and thats why hunting is bad.. apart from morality

David Caruana

Feb 9th 2011, 15:55

There you go....

"Two-thirds of Maltese against spring hunting"

http://stocks.timesofmalta.com/articles/view/20060416/local/two-thirds-of-maltese-against-spring-hunting

M.Bugeja

Feb 9th 2011, 16:16

It's always good to see morale so high amongst hunters, despite the fate that awaits them.

J.Cutajar

Feb 9th 2011, 16:55

Ok you got your answer & it wasn't even BL's doing ...so where is your source saying the minority of the population are against if i may ask, so that likewise we can compare & deduce what your statements are really worth?

M. Cardona

Feb 9th 2011, 17:33

@David Caruana and J Cutajar, I did mention that "it takes is a penny's worth of reasoning" @ M Bugeja, dream on Regards to All

M. Cardona

Feb 9th 2011, 17:36

@ J Cutajar,

BTW please don't put words in my mouth

Once more Regards

Stefan Micallef

Feb 9th 2011, 17:53

But if ONLY 300 households were surveyed!IS that all malta?If i go to 5000 which i know that hunters live in them i will get 100% in favour of hunting and vice -versa if i go to 5000 in which birdwatchers live i will get 100% against,Oh but wait there aren't 5000 birdwatchers!NOT EVEN HALF. And for those people against hunting ask this queastion to youself.If there a political party that you now will ban hunting will you vote for it or you wount just care? If we hunters KNOW that a political party is in favour of hunting of course we will give it our vote! Thats the difference between YOU and US,thats why political parties always tries to please US!

Johnny Xerri

Feb 9th 2011, 20:30

Karl von Brockdorff,

I will be only too happy to pay for the fine when the government posts it to me...and I will invoice the 'teserati' of PN and the same government an equal ammount to this fine as a charge for my stolen votes.

David Caruana

Feb 9th 2011, 13:57

"Two-thirds of Maltese against spring hunting"

http://stocks.timesofmalta.com/articles/view/20060416/local/two-thirds-of-maltese-against-spring-hunting

_____

"Hunting found to be harming tourism"

http://www.timesofmalta.com/articles/view/20031028/local/hunting-found-to-be-harming-tourism

_____

"122,000 Europeans sign petition against Malta spring hunting"

http://www.timesofmalta.com/articles/view/20100323/local/122-000-europeans-sign-petition-against-malta-spring-hunting

Johnny Xerri

Feb 9th 2011, 20:27

wow 122,000 (mostly foriengers) oppose hunters...when there are 7million hunters in just the EU which are certainly not agianst hunting in Malta...

C Cassar

Feb 9th 2011, 17:34

You will pay this fine if hunting continues - end of. Stop hunting and no fine will have to be paid. Very simple, even for those with a modest IQ.

David Caruana

Feb 9th 2011, 18:48

Don't worry C Cassar, I don't need to stop hunting as I never did and surely I will never do so for fun. What I meant is that this time the Government has been warned about the legal repercussions from the EU and from the local anti-hunting lobby, so this time WE WILL NOT PAY.

Johnny Xerri

Feb 9th 2011, 20:25

If you don't want to pay fines....just ask for a retake of the referendum without the false promises and the if we join there will be no need to open the season becaseit wasnot promised. If we don't join then the season can be opened without fines.

Alternatively, if government opts for a derogation in line with the EU legislation and ECJ verdict no fines will be imposed.

Moreover, if you don't wat a retake, then sorry but the fines are simply the price for stolen votes...you and PN followers (was one myself till 2007- when hunting stopped) needed so much in 2003 referendum and election.

y the way we do not choose were our taxes go...otherwise I would not pay for the tax money BLM recieve (from the EU and Malta's tax money)

M.Vassallo

Feb 9th 2011, 12:46

Now tell us how many hunters per square kilometer other countries have.
Maybe thats why they tolerate them simply because they're not all over your face every inch of the countryside.
Yes perhaps practised by millions worldwide, & opposed by billions.

Mark Thorogood

Feb 9th 2011, 13:33

Time and time again I've seen hunters carrying guns over their shoulders, without any regard as to where the barrel was pointing. I didn't say all, or a majority, I said many, and I've seen many doing exactly as shown in the photo.

C Cassar

Feb 9th 2011, 13:59

"hunting is practised by millions worldwide".

There are also thousands of murders around the world each year.


However, that doesn't make it acceptable in any particular country. It'sjust as ant-social as the killing of wildlife which does not belong to you or your selfish colleagues. Everytime to massacre a bird it removes it from the environment that provides pleasure to many more people. Once someone observes a bird, it is freely available to be observed by the next person interested in the environment. Once you have shot the bird dead, it's available to nobody any more. To me that is extremely selfish, the equivalent to theft from the community.

At least the vast majority of children are today being brought up and educated to appreciate the environment and wildlife that it contains rather than destroying it for a few minutes of warped pleasure.

You're showing the classic signs of denial - this is denial of the inevitable and the last throws of someone who is about to be isolated forever.

N. Pace

Feb 9th 2011, 14:15

So if mass suicide is practised by millions around the world do we follow suit?

C Cassar

Feb 9th 2011, 12:18

As expected you keep your head buried in the sand, THE MAJORITY OF PEOPLE IN MALTA AND THOSE VISITING WANT ALL HUNTING STOPPED. Now, is that clear (I couldn't use a larger font here) but it seems like you have alot of trouble reading the general consensus on this subject.

Your pursuit is clearly dying a very slow death. Each year, more and more restrictions are applied by the EU because it is not a civilised pursuit.

As I said earlier, civilised soceity provides the opportunity of clay pidgeon shooting. It does no significant harm to wild life, provides those who want to shoot with an acceptable option and is acceptable by the rest of the community.

mark chetcuti

Feb 9th 2011, 13:02

BLA BLA BLA kulhadd ghandu dritt jamel id delizju tijaw sa fejn naf jien minoranza u le . sorry dawn l affarijiet isiru f kull pajjiz tal ewropa barra hawn. Hawn hafna ambjentalisti u kullhadd irid jiddetta li jidirlu hu . f dil gzira ma hallejniex delizju fejn jidhol l ambjent bi kwietu mhux ghal kacca biss nqed nirreferi sajd offroad insomma kull sport fejn jidhlu dawn in nies (hekk imsemmija "ambjentalisti") li lilhom ma jogobomx.GEJNA SEWWWWWWW

J Farrugia

Feb 9th 2011, 13:49

Sylvana - in reply to your comments, I say yes the hunters are not a majority in this country and they have only themselves to blame for what has befallen on them. They only have to beat their own chests instead of blaming others for the illegalities they are committing and i will not pay one cent for their arrogance and illegal behaviour. They either change tack or out they go. Who was it who when they saw some beautiful swans in Marsascala stopped their vehicle ignoring all traffic rules and blasted hell out of the watching public and killed all the swans with their rambo tactics? Who? The government? So stop your calls for the government to open up the season. You will get the season you deserve. Those are the rules and not political party be it labour or nationalilst will give you back what your FKNK lost through its tactics. Fine.

J Farrugia

Feb 9th 2011, 13:53

Mark Chetcuti - offroad mhuwiex sport. Huwa biss li ghax ghandek vettura qawwija lest taghmel hsara lill-kampanja maltija u teqred kull ma jghaddi taht il-vettura. Dan mhu ser jithalla qatt li jkompli jsir. Jekk trid offroading mur barra minn Malta fejn ghandek art kbira ferm u mhux f'din it-tikka ta' gzira. jew inkella mur ta' Qali fil-korsa tal-vetturi mfarrka. Hemmhekk jghodd ghalikom. Imma li taghmel hsara lil haddiehor mhux sew. u jekk ma jimpurtakx minn bebbuxu jew minn fjura endemika, ghalilna dawn il-gawhar jimpurtawna iktar minnek. Hekk jonqos issa li k ull minn jivvinta xi attivita' ta' imbarazz, irid l-art tieghu. Halluna nghixu.

mark chetcuti

Feb 9th 2011, 16:01

Mr j farrugia mela xinhu sport ghalik tigri wara bebbuxu jew xi fjura endemika ghalija dik attivita tal imbarazz .Barra kemm kacca johorgu s sena kolla u kif ukoll offroad gewwa widien imorru bis sindku tal post jaqta iz zigarella qabel jibdew u hawn malta hekk konna bill ministru tal isport jaqta iz zigarella min go lukanda fil pieta u issa fsalt kollox gie illegali . haga ohra ma tistax taqbad u tmur ta qali u tidhol hemm .tibqawx tindahlu f kollox sibu delizzju u HALLUNA NGHIXU

Steve Zammit

Feb 10th 2011, 18:09

@Mark Chetcuti

Mhux ta bxejn fejn jidhol l-ambjent, qeghdin f'stat dizastruz f'dan il-pajjiz ckejken taghna! Il-kumment u r-ragunar tieghek huwa ezempju ta' dan u juri kemm il-mentalita' tan-nies hija wahda fqira fejn jidhol apprezzament tal-ambjent taghnna. Nies bhalek jippretendu li jistghu jaghmlu li irridu, anke jekk din l-attivita jew ''sport'' taghmel hsara kbira bhal-off roading...u hallina!

R Bartolo

Feb 9th 2011, 13:07

"Fact is that a minority practise a hobby that is detrimental to the environment and our enjoyment of it, harmful to our health (keeping in mind that each season pumps more toxic lead into our water table and crops, and consequently our dinner table),.."

If one reads this article here: http://www.um.edu.mt/pub/petrollead.html, understands the science behind "lead" poisoning, and understands the findings, then it will also be concluded that lead shot that is deposited in the countryside by hunters is not a factor at all.

I don't have the space or the inclination to spell things out, but a lack of comprehension may speak volumes, so if necessary, re-read.

"Fact is..." even in very highly regulated countries like the US, what with their EPA and similar authorities, let alone European countries, lead shot is not considered to be an issue at all, it is only restricted over waters where resident waterfowl may ingest it cumulatively when feeding in the shallows. We have no such waters where hunting is permitted and where there are resident waterfowl.

As usual, Malta is at the centre of the known universe, and we are special. Yes, this IS a sarcastic comment.

C Cassar

Feb 9th 2011, 12:07

@Stephen Baldacchino: You said:

"your comments makes me feel that everyone in this life only cares of him self and dont care about making others happy"

What about caring for the innocent birds that have no say in their own survival? Many birds you shoot will no longer have the chance to raise their own family of chicks - beings with their own lives.

Hunters don't care about extinguishing life - life that can't fight back on a level basis. Hunters are cowards.
Today people aren't thrown to lions, aren't hanged, aren't burnt at the stake. Civilised soceity had realised through education that all life has a right to live a decent humane existence, be it wild animals or even farmed animals. With regards to farmed animals, I'm a vegetarian but I don't have a problem with people eating meat - it is their choice. However, I do have a problem when farmed animals are not allowed to live a decent life during their existence.

Wild animals aren't your property or anyone else's.

C Cassar

Feb 9th 2011, 11:18

Why? Malta is a full member of the EU and is obliged to apply EU regulations. That is all in place, so what's the problem? Is it that the Maltese never take any notice of regulations? Well this time if they don't ALL Maltese will be paying through their pockets when the huge fine arrives in Malta . No one will get away without paying it because it will be paid from the treasury, where everyone pays their taxes.

censu attard

Feb 9th 2011, 12:11

@ C Cassar,
I fully support full EU legislation.Most civilised soceities enjot clay pigeon shooting.Just take a look at these sites and one can see that hunting takes part in the whole of the EU,why Malta should be different,are we second class,or is it like the saying goes "everyone is equal,but some are more equal than the others."

http://www.countrysports.co.uk/photos/whiteharebag.jpg
http://www.countrysports.co.uk/photos/lotspigeon.jpg

http://www.hungarian-hunting.com/Hunting-in-Hungary.htm
http://www.hungarian-hunting.com/Hunt-in-Hungary.htm

http://www.gourmetfly.com/Jose.htm
http://www.huntingincatalonia.com/

http://www.gourmetfly.com/Huntdriven.htm

So in the whole of the EU hunting is practiced,so why should we be different.

J. Borg

Feb 9th 2011, 13:38

@ censu attard

Malta IS actually different.

Just compare the density of population and the surface area of what can be termed countryside....is Malta anywhere near the UK, Spain, Hungary and the lot??

S Vella

Feb 9th 2011, 15:33

Shear nonsense!
I practice both hunting and clay pigeon shooting altough I had to give it up because it became so expensive that I cannot afford it anymore, because our government was not sensible enough to exempt clay pigeon cartriges from tax so that they will be affordable by everyone so that it could be an alternative to hunting, ALTOUGH I ASSURE YOU TAT IT IS NOT.
Football and basketball are both played with a ball but are not the same!!
We are not second class EU citizens and have a right to apply a derogation because hunting in Autumn is not sustainable so it is not an alternative to Spring as the ECJ itself concluded!!
If you love wildlife so much I hope you do not eat rabbits chicken pigs cows etc, because they were never even given the chance to live in the wilderness so that you can eat them!!

C Cassar

Feb 9th 2011, 11:07

They carry guns in this way because they have never had any safety training in handling firearms. The gun should be carried "broken" to make sure it can't inadvertantly fired or when placed on the ground, pointing skywards. There again these people wouldn't give a second of their time to listen to safety experts. They are simply cowboys who have turned the Maltese countryside into a very cheap version of the wild west.

John Borg

Feb 9th 2011, 12:53

C.Cassar you give the impression to be familiar with firearms and their safe handling, can you please explain to us exactly how you pretend hunters to carry the semi-automatic shotgun shown in the picture in a 'broken' way?
As to calling hunters 'cowards', well I suggest you have a deep look around you to reckon who are the cowards and if you remain of the same opinion I may give a long list of hunters in high ranked positions so you may go and call them 'cowards'.

S Vella

Feb 9th 2011, 15:21

@Mark Thorogood
For your information that is the safest way to carry a semi automatic shotgun while in use so that if it accidentally shoots, it is poimting upwards and does not hit anyone.
How would you suggest to hold a gun? pointing at the Indians like in Western moovies?

Mark Thorogood

Feb 9th 2011, 19:52

The gun isn't pointed upwards - that the whole point - its slung over the shoulder

S Vella

Feb 10th 2011, 12:14

@ Mark Thorogood
Were is it pointing then? Or are we seeing a different picture?
Whatever hunters and trappers do is always wrong for those who try to obscure us and express their hatred in anything we do!
Maybe were you come from people are over 6 meters tall!

C Borg

Feb 9th 2011, 10:21

You remember what was promised. This was on black and white. http://kaccaturi.com/eddie.html

Secondly the EU said that Autumn is not an alternative for Spring hunting in Malta. Remember that!! Quote: “Hunting for quails and turtle doves during the autumn hunting season cannot be regarded as constituting, in Malta, another satisfactory solution, so that the condition that there be no other satisfactory solution, laid down in Article 9(1) of the Directive, should, in principle, be considered met,” the Court argued.

I know that regulations and limitations now has to be made accordingly to meet the birds directive requirements, and the proposals that are being proposed by FKNK does meet the requirements. I am sure that FKNK worked within the birds directive and remained conservative, as not to throw stones on the foot.

Please note that Spring hunting on Doves and Quails is not Illegal hunting as Birdlife want to put in mind of people, Illegal hunting is on birds of prey and other protected species that are protected all year round and also in europe. So that is illegal hunting and not spring hunting to the same birds we can shoot in autumn and can be shot all over europe.

Stefan Azzopardi

Feb 9th 2011, 10:32

Can you stop waving these promises about?? I can promise you many things but if you blindly believe me then it's your problem!!! Is it so hard to admit that Dr. Fenech Adami took you for a ride before last elections??? or your pride won't let you???

Karl von Brockdorff

Feb 9th 2011, 14:22

What was promised to hunters was done so in order so that our country's bid to join the EU will not be jeopardized by the hunting minority. The hunter's interest is only in preserving his hobby, and not the future well-being of this country. Ask any sane Maltese person if EFA did the right thing in promising the hunters that they can keep their hobby in return for EU access, knowing that he cannot keep his promise, and you will get your answer. The country's future cannot be held hostage by these people.

Boohoo, the government didnt keep its promise to you - Get in line.

S Vella

Feb 9th 2011, 15:14

@Stefan Azzopardi
It was not a promise, IT WAS A GUARANTEE to betray those who believe Eddie, so much so that even MIC who was responsable to give correct information gave hunters and trappers the same reply that Spring hunting for turtle dove and quail will remain and after joining fully EU things will even improve for hunters and trappers!
No we will not stop waving these falls malicious guarantees. If you are so irresponsable not to keep your promises, you should be ashamed of yourself because you are nothing but dishonest, like who gave us these falls guarantees!! It is not a statement you should boast of but be ashamed of yourself. Your word and the PM's word (guarantee) does not have the same strength and responsability, and MIC was fully responsable to inform the public not to fool around with the people's intelligence.
Atleast by waving these black on white false guarantees we can show the lack of credibility of those who made them so that those who went for the carrot will open their eyes, or does the truth hurt you so much and you want to cover up for them?

S Vella

Feb 9th 2011, 16:10

@ Karl Von Brockdorff
Is that the democracy Eddie use to preach so much about??? Proset eh!!
Dont worry today it s us but tomorrow it will be you!
Another election will come and I am sure the politicians will be after our votes again.....
If for you joining the EU at all cost was so important doesnt mean that it was the same for everyone! No Matter What No One Has The Right to betray his citizens to get what he want at the expence of lying!
So The First and prime Poacher was the One who gave false guarantees and his clan including MIC and foreigners who came on TV shows to enlighten us and paid from our taxes! So dont blame angry hunters who loose their patience when they do so because everyone is ready to point fingers at them and forgets that he has another 4 other fingers pointing at himself! and who betrayed them!

Johnny Xerri

Feb 9th 2011, 20:18

@ Karl von Brockdorff, Democracy implies that choices are made by the people. If the people wanted YES then we should have joined. If the people wanted NO then we should be out. However, voting should have been done on correct info...not on lies. What EFA did was simply childs play. He and his lan wanted the EU membership...there were 2 ways in...either dictatorial style or else through lies...well both are anti democratic. Secondly, who says that the EU does not permit hunting? The EU permits hunting, even during spring...I have hunted in the UK for the pst 10 years...during; March, April, and May. Moreover, if this is the thanks I am getting for voting in the interest of the country, just be informed that, since I know have a job for life with the govt, from know on its revenge time and I will vote for any party that guarantees hunting and wil never again vote in favour of Malta and its common good, but always for the most vile, double faced, worst performing party (be it PN, PL, AD or any other party).

G.Pisani

Feb 9th 2011, 10:00

haha... you wish you were the majority.. I'm sure the hunting lobby is against a referendum on this

Mark Sultana

Feb 9th 2011, 10:07

are you serious?...... apart from the fact that poeple are opposing spring hunting more then ever before and that the hunting lobby only has power because the leaedrs in this country beleive their vote makes a difference, the issue is of principle and value and you do not need majority or kminority to decide.

the killing a bird while flying north towards its breeding ground goes against all natural principles and values of conservation.

S Vella

Feb 9th 2011, 15:49

@ G Pisani
If you want to speak of a referendum, then the Referendum to join the EU should be Null and re taking because before that referndum the hunters and trappers were betrayed and MIC was giving false information. If the PM Eddie was honest and did not give us false guarantees and MIC told us that Spring hunting will be abolished, not that we continue to hunt turtle doves and quails and things will eventuall improve once we become full members, that referendum would never have passed. If we are a minority we are still 17000+ and our votes had a strong decision. If you believe that you can trash people once you get wath you want then I dont blame you for what you write!
If Eddie was honest his referendum never would have passed and we would have never been in this situation and his politics would have flopped so he refered to lying techniques.