MP complains as 84-year-old is told to refund €1,591 sent to her by mistake

S.Caruana

Jan 14th 2011, 15:14

Jien naqbel li din is-sinjura ghandha trodd il-flus lura PERO dawk li l-Gvern qabbad u hafrilhom €2,000,000 mit -taxxi taghna qabel l-elezzjoni dawk se jrodduhom lura u dawk li ghandhom xi kamra illegali hdejn il-bahar bhall-Armier dawn se jehodilhom il-Gvern biex jaghtiha wkoll lill- poplu jew fejn hemm iz-zghir bhal dejjem nuru s-sahha.

Paul A Vella

Jan 14th 2011, 13:36

The members of Parliament must be really busy with the ways to boost our economy and how to make our country move forward...wasting time on a petty affair such as this in Parliament is really the cherry on the cake!! Of course the money should be refunded...the money went to the pensioner through a mistake and that's it!! Bringing this up in Parliament is really making a farce of the institution!! Get back to work...after all that is what we are paying you for!!!!

Chris Reiff

Jan 14th 2011, 12:42

Ever heard of Indebiti Solutio, dear Mr.Parnis?

A. Pace

Jan 14th 2011, 08:22

Well in 2007 I received a cheque as well, and 3 years later they asked me to pay it back. The cheque was approx Lm700.00. When I went to the 'Inland Revenue' to complain I was given advice by one of the clerks there, he said: 'Meta tircievi cekk min hawn qatt issarfu ta' hi". Isn't that great I thought, they should have printed at the bottom of each cheque the same words!

L. Dimech

Jan 13th 2011, 18:18

What I really wonder about is WHAT WAS AN 84 YEAR OLD WOMAN PAYING INCOME TAX ON? Even had she worked all her life it would have been AT LEAST 23 YEARS AGO THAT SHE'D HAVE PAID ANY TAX AT ALL. (Unless she worked longer as a moonlighter - but then those certainly don't pay any tax, never mind a surplus of it !).

This is the first thing the sharp (!) MP should have asked her - to be honest I cannot believe that anybody would put up a PQ without even having had a look at her tax papers.

I have no doubt that both the woman and her relatives as well as the MP realised that that kind of money could not have been overpaid by the lady, she probably thought nobody would find out. Very convenient I must say.

I'd say Lady, put one hand on your heart and the other in your pocket and cough up the money that you always knew did not belong to you.

With all due respect, at your age, you should be 'lightening the sack' not adding to it !!

Franco Borg

Jan 13th 2011, 14:17

"Aghti lil Cesri dak li hu ta' Cesri .... u lil Inland Revenue dak li mhux tieghek "

M Borg

Jan 13th 2011, 12:58

forsi kienet tat nofshom lil Silvio Parnis sabiex hu jqassamhom lil foqra tad-distrett tieghu hux! :) Min jaf? U forsi ghalhekk qed taraha bi kbira issa......u anke Silvio! Min jaf?

C Muscat

Jan 13th 2011, 11:14

Kindly read my experience before jumping into many conclusions. I am not saying this happened in this old lady case but it happened to me and maybe the same happen again and again..maybe.
I overpaid tax because I kept paying the same rate for 5 years as when both my wife and myself were employed. After 10 years I got a refund worked out by the department and checked by myself. After 8 years, I received to pay back part of that refund. I asked for some help on the basis that since I was correct I do not pay what is not due.
I was misled and the department deducted an amount every month from my salary and to add insult to injury instead of deducting what they said I had to pay with interests the department deducted.
Anyway it is too complicated but the department managed to rip me twice and what they said it was a mistake it was not.
A whole mess...good for those of VAT defrauders that had everything arranged prior to court..

S. Vassallo

Jan 13th 2011, 10:22

If a cheque which amounts to the same figure was received by mistake to a minister, I won't think Silvio Parnis would have reasoned things out like this, would he???... But he would order the minister to give the money back, - as he/ she should do!!! so even this lady should return the money back, she knows its not hers!!

r.cutajar

Jan 13th 2011, 04:43

Could you please put some taught to this unfortunate incident -perhaps an induced debate will materialise So much depends on the circumstances ,because an 84 year old is most likely very dependant on others. Usually it is a natural urge to be over generouse and a sense of " give it away" to all who supports me is so natural in such circumstances -especially if many a hard times where the order of the day for the poor lady And what if this lady has to be admitted in a home or hospital for the Elderly obviouse no ?Try to figure how much that would cost to the taxpayer

CA Miller

Jan 13th 2011, 03:03

The only mistake was to allow these idiots to give themselves a pay raise. Of course they need this poor lady's money back - they need all of our money. I'd like to know how Mr Fenech feels about the raise he just gave himself.

Janet Bayes

Jan 12th 2011, 23:34

Has no-one considered that these civil servants are being paid to do this work, and to do it PROPERLY? If these persons are not capable of doing the job, there are surely others that are? Its not rocket science to work out taxes due and who by. The person/s that made the mistake should pay - - with their job.

Philip Hili

Jan 12th 2011, 20:11

@ v. Caruana,
Barra minn hekk, tircievi kont bhal dak la hi u l-anqas niesa ma jivverifikaw? Kieku kien l-oppost, li trid THALLAS kienu jivverifikaw niesa? U hallina Sur Parnis!!!!!!!

E. Azzopardi

Jan 12th 2011, 19:13

Government departments ( and this all over the world) come to haunt you even after several years and we all know this. So, if I receive a cheque for any amount , let alone this amount, and I have a feeling that this does not belong to me or perhpas as in this case, I am not sure why I got it, then I would inquire whether this is correct. If I am lost or not up to date, I ask a relative or a trusted friend. I am sorry for the lady, but she knows that it does not belong to her. This is OUR money. So do you want the person who made the mistake to pay for it????
Sometimes, I am amazed how some of our politicians think.

Phil Press

Jan 12th 2011, 18:51

Pennies, from heaven, enjoy. It will be the only gift you will get from, the government.

Salvinu Vella

Jan 12th 2011, 18:22

To all those blaming the old lady or those who were taking care of her, if you receive a cheque from the Income Tax Department saying that you had overpaid your tax, would you send it back or cash it? Don't bother to answer because I know what you would do.

Paul Sammut

Jan 12th 2011, 18:10

The IT Department is in a whole mess. They had deducted a certain sum from the pension of a relative of mine when she was not supposed to pay it (as it was in excess to what she should pay) and when it was brought to their attention they did not pay her back but said that it will be deducted from the next year's tax she had top pay. They were then instructed not to make another deduction last year. There are two considerations. First of all needless to say, she lost any interest she could have earned on the sum withheld and last year. Secondly, notwithstanding that they knew she should not have paid and that sum withheld should have been deducted from her IT amount this year, they neither deducted the excess that they had previously withheld while they also made another deduction this year. This is the confusion that is reigning in the IT Department.

c.cefai

Jan 12th 2011, 17:03

If somebody by MISTAKE makes an over-assessment and hence pay tax on this amount,

the Inland Revenue Dept does not re-imburse the excess tax paid; so this sort of

reasoning should also be applied to this 84 year old woman!!

c. camilleri

Jan 12th 2011, 16:38

Most probable the money is handled by her children who surely knew or should have queried how this amount of money came about. The money should be returned either by installments from her pension or by confiscating the amount from her bank account, or should be deducted from any inheritance left to her children. This is taxpayers' money and do not belong to her.
Had she been younger she would have been persecuted for accepting money which does not belong to her.

duncan Tanti

Jan 12th 2011, 15:38

I agree that the money shall be paid back but let us not forget that she is 84 years old.Most probable she is not that up to date when it comes to those things.

A. Mifsud

Jan 12th 2011, 15:15

Why did she accept the money in the first place? She must have knew it was a mistake in the firstplace as nobody would ever send you money for which you are not entitled to - so it must have been an evident mistake. I cannot understand how Mr. Parnis pretends such consessions, and whislt he's at it and given he's such a 'robinhood wannabe' why doesn't he simply pay this out of his own pockets and shut up.

Joseph Calleja

Jan 12th 2011, 15:13

Another big ooooops by the IRS (Vat). I do believe that if the law states that the lady in question should return the money, then she should. This is tax payers money and not IRS money or Minister's money. But say this 84 year old lady spent the money that was given to her in error by the IRS, then what? The IRS can demand for the lady to pay back the €1,591 but if she does not have it then we put her in jail? I don't know how long ago this incident happened but that lady is going to need that money to pay for her defence, in order to pay the lawyer. Seems like that money is long gone and the only thing left to do is for the courts to sentence this 84 year old woman to 1 year in prison with a suspended sentence for 2 years. Everybody else gets a suspended sentence, why not this 84 year old lady. Here come the judge. I think the IRS will have to bite this one and go after the big fish.

C Muscat

Jan 12th 2011, 15:09

Min ha l-izball ihallas. Min qassam flus zejda jig mghoddi PSC. Lili xebghu igaluni nhallas flus zejda taparsi zball taghhom. Issa suppost qedin fi zmien fejn kulhadd jigi sew mal-gvern/pajjiz mal-ewwel. Il-pagi li qedin inhallsu lil impjegati tal-gvern minn flusna biex ma jaghmlux zbalji u min jaghmel li zball ihallas. u mhux ta xejn miki mouse jiehu ghalih.
Jekk kellha x'taqsam fit-tahwid thallas hi u jhallas l-impjegat forsi xi darba nsiru serji

VV Bartolo

Jan 12th 2011, 15:02

am sure that if she had received an arms bill for the same amount instead of an IR cheque, (she) or her dear relatives would have gone to the said dept to verify!!! hallina parnis!

gaffarena joseph

Jan 12th 2011, 14:28

Sur Parnis,

Possibli din, jew xi hadd mil familja taghha ma jafx li kien zball?

Joseph E Briffa

Jan 12th 2011, 14:23

SP is not contesting that the cheque was issued by IR in error; he is arguing that the IR should bear the consequences and renounce the right to get the money back. As an MP he should know better; any amount paid in error by the exchequer has to be refunded whether one is 84 or 24. The lady or whoever takes care of her affairs does know whether she is taxable or not. The fact that the cheque was cashed suggests that there was no doubt on the part of the recipient that she must have at some time in the past overpaid her income tax; this suggest that she is taxable. If she were not taxable she would not have ever had any dealings with IR and would have concluded that there was an error, and would not have cashed it. Is this a case where one is after garnering some votes?

Ray Tabone

Jan 12th 2011, 14:08

This was a mistake by the Inland Revenue Department. The Department of SOCIAL SERVICES has been doing this to my (93 year old) mother for several years.

There were years when the DSS would send her a letter telling her she is entitled to and will be receiving certain increases and benefits (extra to her pension). I always told my mother not to spend the extra amount sent to her. Sure enough they always asked for it back - later on in the same year or in the following, she would receive a note that there had been a mistake in the computation of her pension and that the extra amount paid to her will be deducted from her monthly pension. She would then spend months (sometimes more than a year) with her pension greatly reduced until the excess amount is paid back.

I concluded that the Department of SOCIAL SERVICES must be either grossly incompetent or it is playing games with figures – so that the Department is made to look like it is using its allocated budget by a certain time of the year, knowing quite well that it can be recouped later from the pensioners themselves.

A. Axisa

Jan 12th 2011, 13:38

All of you, feel free to feel any way you like to what should be done, but PLEASE...respect this lady. We know NOTHING about how things took place, so PLEASE let's not be rude.

J Attard

Jan 12th 2011, 13:38

The refund should be paid back. But what about the 0.75% interest per month from the date of issue of the cheque, until they are paid back?? Should these be charged or not?.
In my opinion Labour MP Silvio Parnis is referring to these 0.75% penalty. when he said "84-year-old woman should not pay for the mistake of the department ". (At the moment the law stipulates that a refund issued by mistake and cashed by the tax payer incure a penalty of 0.75% per month until the refund is given back to the IRD)

C Refalo

Jan 12th 2011, 13:34

Can't believe that a member of Parliament made such a statement!! Yes, if that money is not hers, then this woman has NO right to keep it - it must be paid back: that is the taxpayers' money - OUR money! Her age does NOT in anyway justify her intention of not paying this sum back!! if she has already spent this sum, then she could be allowed to pay the sum in instalments: the most important thing is that the whole sum would be paid! indeed, she was the victim of a mistake, but, it is still dishonest on her part to claim that she would not pay the sum because of someone else's mistake! that is abuse! Everybody is human, and thus everybody is liable to commit mistakes!

Joseph Galea

Jan 12th 2011, 13:32

If I were to work at the inland revenue and decided to send a cheque of 5000 euro by mistake to an 84year old friend of mine and instruct this friend to refuse to send payment back and call Mr Parnis for assistance, including some other support from some commentators below,what would happen then? Me and my 84 year old friend will split up the catch.

C. Xuereb

Jan 12th 2011, 13:27

Jiena nghid li din il-povra anzjan ghandha thallashom lura b'xi mod anke forsi b'€2 fil-gimgha jew €10 minn kull cekk. Pero' mhux niefqu hawn, dawn l-affarijiet suppost jigu double checked u min ghamel dan l-izball ghandu jirrispondi wkoll mhux kull darba li jiehdu zball l-impjegati tal-Gvern qatt ma jigri xejn. U lil dawk kollha li ghandhom il-hdura kontra l-Partit Laburista nghidlilhom insejtumeta ommkom u missierkom jew in-nanniet kienu mejtin bil-guh u Mintoff ghamilhom sinjuri? Halluna tridux ghax nahseb li inthom tal-qalba u qed tiehdu mill-cake. Is-sena t-tajba.

Paul Barrett

Jan 12th 2011, 13:09

Yes, I agree the money should be paid back - paid back in instalments at a rate that she can afford on the basis of her assets and or her income, even if this is at Euro 1 per week.

Jon Agius

Jan 12th 2011, 13:04

No one knows the situation so why all the accusations. They contacted her "after some time" yet no one knows if it was after one week or after years. I think if she was contacted at the shortest time possible she would not have spent any of it.

But here everyone thinks he is a judge. And then you read some comments which will only make you laugh like "this is OUR money and not her money". Intellectual prostitution at its best!!

mario camilleri

Jan 12th 2011, 13:02

Ghanda thallashom luwra flopinjoni tieghi, Pero nispera li meta jihdu xi zball CIR bhal dan dejjem jindunaw ghax inkella ghanda xi duda ohra hemm gewwa ukoll.Din il mara ghanda tinatta chance ukoll biex thallashom specjalment jekk hija fqira il bqija jekk ghanda min fejn thallasom imedjatament.

Rob Warmer

Jan 12th 2011, 12:57

Funny really cause i had more or less the same a tax refund from my homeland, BUT the baggers made sure i had to pay it all back with interest, & for the lenght of time i had it in my account, now how is that for fair play, its usually the other way around the tax people and shops tend to overcharge, but TRY AND GET YOUR MONEY BACK WHATS DUE TO YOU, might as well forget it as it probably takes months and even years before some computer expert decides to erase the mistake.

Gerard Cassar

Jan 12th 2011, 12:51

Should not ministers whose fault the government spent undue money refund it such as the BWSC, the money spent on defective roads, etc.

Jason Borg

Jan 12th 2011, 12:49

Hey/Hey!!! Yes It is not her money. HOWEVER, what if she believed it was due to her and she spent the money.

Charles Muscat

Jan 12th 2011, 12:49

If she believed in God and go to church to receive communion, she should have rejected the money in the first instance.

E Gatt

Jan 12th 2011, 12:39

Labour mentality has always been that taxpayers are faceless people with bottomless pockets.

Thank you Silvio Parnis, for reminding us that the Mintoffian slogan “Aħleb Ġuż, Aħleb” is still alive, kicking, and a threat to us taxpayers.

Paul Caruana

Jan 12th 2011, 12:38

Any comments beyond Minister Fenech remarks would be superfluous....and while we are at it, would it be too much to expect opposition MPs to come up with sensible and valid points of criticism?

Karl Abela

Jan 12th 2011, 12:36

Ara vera l-lejber imgewwah ghal jkull VOT li jista jakwista.

Il-Lejber wasal f'sitwazzjoni fejn jaghmilha ta l-avukat tax-xitan issa wkoll.

Dawk flusna, roddhom lura sinjura!!

Adriano Spiteri

Jan 12th 2011, 12:34

He is not completely mistaken. There are valid arguments as to why this person should not be forced to repay.

Leaving that to the administrationto decide I'd however bet she's from the same district he contests in. Probably she's from a large family that never sympathized with him so far.

Politicians would sell their soul to get their bounty! Perhaps 'Politician' is not the correct term here.

John Vassallo

Jan 12th 2011, 12:24

I'm curious to know though, why did the woman keep the money if she knew it didn't belong to her? Because in that case, then yes, she should pay it back!

P. Borg

Jan 12th 2011, 12:24

La mhumiex tieghek ghandek ittihom lura. Nahseb kieku kienu xi kont kont tghid li mhux se thallashom mela allura la mhumiex dovuti l-anqas ghandek tohodhom. Bla sens din li johrog jiddefendiha. Ejja nimxu b'subajna dritt u nfittxu ir-raguni ta vera please.

Gino Caruana

Jan 12th 2011, 12:22

Sur Parnis

Taf li jekk ahna ma'nhalsux it-taxxa fil-hin nehlu 1% fix-xahar aktar sewwa u din trid izomm dak li mhux taghha jien nghidlek li dan huwa reat PRETENDED RIGHTS jkk tibqa izommom

Elton Abela

Jan 12th 2011, 12:21

Tajba wkoll!!!!! Hallina Sur Parnis! Ara ma tweghdix li meta tkun Ministru ta l-Anzjani (jekk dejjem tkun!) troddomla lura wkoll!!

Alex Spiteri

Jan 12th 2011, 12:19

u should organise a donation campaign on ur program then!

H Dempster

Jan 12th 2011, 12:19

If the Department made a mistake then it is up to the dept to pay for the mistake.

joseph cachia

Jan 12th 2011, 12:14

does Mr Parnis understand logics ??

Martina Borg

Jan 12th 2011, 12:13

Once again, the PN's social conscience comes to the fore. Shame on you - all of you!

Michael Magro

Jan 12th 2011, 12:11

The 1594 euros are OUR MONEY not yours. Yes Minister, go after that money now before tomorrow or else cut her pension. What did this citizen do with all this manna which fell on her from heaven without being due to her? Dear woman of 84 years give that money back. That is daylight robbery committed by the IRD in your favour which you have no right to. That is OUR MONEY. Give it back. or stop paying her the rest of her pension until she pays all the money.

J Mallia

Jan 12th 2011, 12:10

No it's not fair to keep money that doesn't belong to you ............So what happened to the 12 million Euro which where defrauded by the VAT employees dear Minister ?? Where they ever returned ? The answer is NO, they haven't..............Ragunament ghal pajjiz tal Banana, min ministru tal Banana.

Mike Farrugia

Jan 12th 2011, 12:08

How about another 84 year old recieving a similar cheque some years ago due to a mistake in her pension and dying a few months later.
The year she recieved the cheque affected her taxable income for that year and the heirs are being asked to pay her tax!
If the department had given her what was due to her in the first place, she would have firstly enjoyed spending them and secondaly she would have still not reached an income high enough to be taxed.

M. Mamo

Jan 12th 2011, 12:07

Jekk jien nircievi ammont ta flus f'ittra impustata lil xi hadd allura andi dritt inzommom ghax il-kumpanija tal-post hadu zball? Ghalija din il-mara qed tapprofitta minn zball u taf li dak li hadet ma kienx haqqa. Zbalji jsiru dejjem u minn kulhadd u hi haga ngusta li MP (seta kien tal-PN, ma jimpurtanix liem partit ikun) jinqeda bl-eta' ta xi hadd biex forsi jakkwista xi vot.

Mark Galea

Jan 12th 2011, 12:07

Well the SOLUTION is even more SIMPLE than that.

Labour MP Silvio Parnis SHOULD put forward the request that this 84-year old woman should receive that amount from the FUND created by the PL MP's who did not want the wage increase.

That way IR is duly repaid back, the 84-year old woman is happy, and MP Silvio Parnis will remember that he too can do something with the money Joseph Muscat donated to the fund.

G.Pisani

Jan 12th 2011, 12:06

Eh tajba din, jekk mhux taha flus kif izommom?. Dawk tal poplu, jew ahjar ta zieda ta tlett gimghat tal MPs..

Darren Muscat

Jan 12th 2011, 12:03

Give the money back. It's no excuse, I don't care about anyone's age at this situation. Surely, if she received a bill, she also would have enough strength to protest so "return the money". Pay back by money or prision just then all will learn from this.