Migrants 'were tortured' after Maltese-Libyan 'rescue'

Sean Grima

Dec 16th 2010, 10:42

as usual, the comments prove that racism is the product of ignorance.

Raymond Sammut

Dec 16th 2010, 02:43

@ C Portelli

I don't make Libya's problem to be also Malta's problem. Libya's problem is simply Malta's problem. It's also Italy's problem, and this is the reason why Libya and Italy entered into a co-operative agreement.

Illegal aliens from the south end of Africa don't appear on Malta's shore without organized crime called human trafficking. Every country targeted by human traffickers shares the same problem --either as a transit or destination country. In this case, Libya and Malta are transit countries. Italy is a destination country. But all three countries share the same problem; that is, all three are victims of traffickers. Another example is Malaysia--Indonesia--Australia.

Gonzi must be replaced because of his failed policy. His policy has failed because it's conducive to trafficking. Anything conducive to trafficking leads to Maritime tragedies and congestion at host countries. Australia presently has PM Gillard who also adopts the same failed policy. She too will have to be replaced. Only a few hours ago Australia suffered a Maritime disaster in graphical form which will continue to affect everyone.

The policy is conducive because it's advantageous to traffickers. Those who adopt it, therefore, are also culpable when people drown.

David Gatt

Dec 16th 2010, 00:04

Its not that I dont feel sorry for these people IF this story is true, but this is what Africans always do to each other and we are not to be blamed for this. The only solution to this problem is them becoming civilized.

L. Attard

Dec 15th 2010, 15:32

If I go to someone's home I have to adapt myself to his/her rules otherwise I can remain home to do whatever I want.

P. Borg

Dec 15th 2010, 12:03

Migrants 'were tortured' after Maltese-Libyan 'rescue' - They shouldn't have left home in the first place.

Think twice of the consequences before doing something. I hope this served as an example to those of them preaching to invade europe and telling us to keep the boats cause we will use them in the future.

Few of them immigrate on a real, fair and good cause. Many of them do it to escape charges to criminal offences they made and because it has become a trend.

George Vella

Dec 15th 2010, 03:39

I do not take serious notice of what had been said below. I pity these people and fully support them. Yet this would not solve any problem to any individual or state. Amesty International and the states involved with the refugees problem should make pressure on the United Nations, and not the E.U., to internationally invade Somalia an stabilize it no matter the international cost. A country without leadership could be turned in a paridise for the benefit of all.

godwin glanville

Dec 14th 2010, 21:43

Since all the bad treatment that the illegal invaders keep receiving from countries whether it is Libya or Malta or anywhere else they do not wish to stay , they have the freedom to return to where they came from in the first place. Instead of blending and adapting in the host country for letting them staying all they do is trying to be as they were in the country they left , suspit . These moaners and their supporters need to realise that one does not do what one wants to do in a host country , if one don't like it, tuff.YOU know what to do

David Buttigieg

Dec 14th 2010, 21:12

@Joe Grima Brussels,

If the alternative is seeing them tortured then yes, we should take as many as we can. If as I assume, you live in Belgium you are also a guest in another country, do you know what we Maltese would be considered as if northern countries' populations thought the same as you and so many do here? Do you thing bigots from the north (thankfully a dieing breed but not extinct yet) consider Maltese Europeans like them?

@CZarb
"Yepp in fact the Vatican and the English monarchy ..."

I happen to be atheist so don't care what you think of the Vatican, equally so the English Monarchy. However I bet most you lot go to church and receive communion - remember your God's words - "whatever you do to the least of your brethren you do to me". So since you believe in it you can prepare the speech to explain to Christ how you turned him away because of blah blah blah!

And please, the usual banal argument to "how many have you got in your house!"
Incredible!

Raymond Sammut

Dec 14th 2010, 20:19

@ C Portelli

It has to do with government policy. We have PM Berlusconi to thank and not PM Gonzi. These people end up concentrated in Libya because smugglers and traffickers target weakest borders in North Africa.

The Libyan government is overwhelmed with the influx owing to poor border control, and PM Gonzi has been providing a ferry service much to the benefit of the construction and Samaritan industries, and much to the detriment of Maltese people battling it out to make ends meet.

No point in people like you whingeing. If the PN do not replace him, then people have got to vote him out. The Maltese government has to adopt policy which is sympathetic to the Libyan issue of border control. At the same time it has to stop being conducive to trafficking by returning back illegal boats.

Joseph Schembri

Dec 14th 2010, 18:45

IN all this I see the weakness of the government especially Minister Mifsud Bonnici who bowed to the pressure of the hysterical (and voting) masses instead of doing what is right. I am here referring to two things in particular - the sending back of vulnerable people to libya and the introduction of the sex crime register.

I can't imagine how this man can sleep at night.

E. Azzopardi

Dec 14th 2010, 16:40

By now, I do not believe everything I read in the media. And I have been proved right over and over again. What proof is there of all this?
Anyway, the best way to ensure that no harm comes their way, is not to cross over because they know that they WILL sent back.

Marius Zulgis

Dec 14th 2010, 16:37

"“The Maltese authorities must ensure that search and rescue operations do not result in the forcible return or removal of already vulnerable individuals to Libya or other states where this would expose them to a real risk of serious human rights violations.”"

CORRECTION
"The EU Authorities not the Maltese authorities. Since when does geographic location imply sole responsibility, pray?

If only other EU member states pulled their weight and took their part of the responsibility instead of criticising Malta simply because we encounter these migrants due to our location. By the same ridiculous logic landlocked European countries can NEVER be criticised for something like this.

David Portelli

Dec 14th 2010, 15:56

I really hope that people who writes these kind of articles would get the pain and the feelings on them as they wish on the maltese society.
I know families who had to leave from Marsa because they had teenage daughters and obviously the illegal immigrants as they are used in their country they didn't leave them in peace and kept following them for weeks.
So if next year 10,000 will be heading for Malta,which could be possible,we accept them all right?

Raymond Sammut

Dec 14th 2010, 15:32

PM Berlusconi has just won a crucial confidence vote in the Italian parliament. 314 Italian lawmakers have once more said no to human smuggling into Italy. Mr Smart has quite a few with whom he can make his sentiments known, and leave Malta and the Maltese people alone.

Louis Gialanze

Dec 14th 2010, 15:12

We have been through this issue many times before and whatever the UNHCR the JRS or Amnesty International throw up at us the absolute majority of maltese citizens are dead set against hosting the UNINVITED aliens amongst us. Repatriation remains the only way out of the impasse. Get on with it Carm.

Louise Vella

Dec 14th 2010, 15:00

II

Everything is taken care of and nothing is left to chance in this lobbying gimmick. The back page of the full Amnesty International report says:

Write to:
Cecilia Malmström
Commissioner for Home Affairs
European Commission
B-1049 Brussels
cecilia.malmstrom@ec.europa.eu
Salutation: Dear Commissioner

So let’s all do what Amnesty International told us. Let’s all write to Cecilia Malmstrom and salute her as “Dear Commissioner”.

Louise Vella

Dec 14th 2010, 14:59

I

Amnesty International, UNHCR and the others. We all got to know them. Do they defend the same interests and views that are held by the vast majority of the common people of Malta? It’s up to readers to judge.

The AI report referred to can be accessed on:

http://www.amnesty.org/en/news-and-updates/report/libya-and-malta-failing-refugees-asylum-seekers-and-migrants-2010-12-14

It says: “According to the Libyan authorities, there are over three million “irregular migrants” in Libya, many from other parts of Africa”. Does Amnesty International want Malta to take these 3 million illegal immigrants? If not Malta, then which country? Italy? Sweden, which has just been the venue of a terrorist attack?

Raymond Sammut

Dec 14th 2010, 14:44

“Malta’s geographical position means that it has to cope with large and mixed flows of irregular migrants and asylum-seekers, and this clearly presents a significant challenge."(Malcolm Smart)

So what are you going to do about your "significant challenge" Mr Smart? The Maltese people have significant challenges of their own, and they definitely do not need yours. You are kindly requested to go and deal with your own significant challenges elsewhere.

Malta will return these people to Libya in order to "cope" with the "mixed flows" of Mr Smart's "irregular" aliens, just like Italy is doing. And thank you very much Mr Smart because we have had more than enough of your cavalier behavior and of people like you. We know what our obligations and priorities are within our national limitations, and do not need any more of your lecturing.

Robert Callus

Dec 14th 2010, 14:24

@Maltese authorities
So our so very Christian government wants to "donate" money to the Libyan authorities to "take care" of these people, knowing very well the atrocities taking place. It seems Christianity is only relevant when DENYING rights such as divorce. Who cares about people being tortured? I don't know what the Italians are doing, but there is no way my tax money will be "invested" in this torture. I don't want blood on my hands.

@those criticizing Amnesty International
It seems some think there is a conspiracy by AI on Malta. It isn't the case. AI is an international organisation that sheds a spotlight on human rights abuses taking place in every corner of the world. Thanks to it many abuses have been stopped or at least decreased. If it wasn't for AI and similar organisations, the amount of refugees (not only in Europe) would be tenfold.

Steve Portelli

Dec 14th 2010, 13:32

It seems that alot of surrounding neighbours became very caring expecially they want to reduce our Search and Rescue area to help us out with Immigration! The interests are too high in our seas!

j.saliba

Dec 14th 2010, 13:24

Therefore Amnesty International must make sure that every asylum seeker that sets foot on The Maltese Islands is immediately sent to a country where there is no torture. Besides telling us what to and not to do what other obligations and responsibilities A.I.'s has?

Raymond Sammut

Dec 14th 2010, 13:07

@ John C Betts

If there were torture in Libya, then you would take issue with multinational corporations and with foreign offices of countries who do business with Libya. Instead, you come here to take issue with concerned commenters on this board. Just like Malcolm Smart taking issue with a small country like Malta by way of a one-sided report. What is tragic here is that while Italy is returning these people back to Libya, Gonzi is still ordering the AFM to bring them to Hay Wharf. Most if not all are sick to death with Gonzi, and Gonzi will not see good numbers at the next election.

John Azzopardi

Dec 14th 2010, 12:24

Malta has done more than it's share in helping migrants. The national interest should always come first as we are the taxpapers and it's insane for some people to think we can accpet everyone. Few quick comments for people to ponder.. Illegal migrantion is not the solution. Close the EU loopholes so that migrants don't have to suffer by traveling across the seas. These are not really human right migrants, but economic migrtants. Second, large countries across the world, US, Russia, China, Brazil, and the large European countries should be the country of choice for these people if they want to go there and these large countries should be forced to accept these migrants. That should be little crowded malta's goal, but do not let them lend here. If they land here, they will be with us for ever as they will become our responsibility to provide health care, food, shelter, and schooling. As one MP said not long ago, we are full up.

Joseph Cauchi

Dec 14th 2010, 12:07

.
Why do these NGOs always target Malta?

What is the agenda behind all this, or do they want to destroy the fabric of our country by introducing alien cultures amongst us and turn our country, once a bastion of Christianity, to a country that the 1565 siege prevented it from?

There is a school of thought that external and also internal forces are at play at what was not achieved in 1565 could become a reality in a few years time!

This could be achieved by the “stealth political correctness” tactic of the “Racism” card and the “Multi-Cultural” philosophy.

Malta should be on its guard and keep an eye especially on the “enemy” within!

Malta is playing with fire!

Check this link: http://edition.cnn.com/2010/WORLD/meast/12/07/iran.christian.death.sentence/index.html?hpt=T2


JC.

Raymond Sammut

Dec 14th 2010, 12:02

The real people who are really vulnerable here are the Maltese people trying to make ends meet on a small island. The argument that people are "tortured" in Libya does not hold. Try and say that, for example, to the management of BP who are about to start deep-sea drilling in the Gulf of Sirte'.

Africa is a large continent. No need to allow oneself to be trafficked to Libya if there were torture in that country. Malcolm Smart does not have a case to make, and him picking on Malta in this way is utterly deplorable. His behavior and his so-called "report" only discredits his organization.

J. Bugeja

Dec 14th 2010, 11:20

Dear AI, may I clarify some matters for you:

-- anyone who enters Malta illegally is (1) detained and (2) repatriated to the country they just came from;
-- practically all illegal immigrants arrive in Malta without documentation;
-- step 1 applies, i.e. detention;
-- step 2 is more difficult to apply since we cannot constitute exactly where they came from. We need to first find out where they are from, verify their stories, determine whether they qualify for some kind of protection and if not, repatriate them;
-- all the above takes time since we do not have the documentation to begin with.

So yes, detention can take up to 18 months while we sort through the mire we are faced with. Any help from AI or anyone else to speed up the process would be greatly appreciated.

Also, it is claimed that Libya tortured the detainees, not Malta. So why is Malta being blamed? Because we do not have the space to house all of Africa?

And if the husband was so concerned, he should have accompanied his pregnant wife back to Libya.

kenneth bonnici

Dec 14th 2010, 11:13

People like David Buttigieg have not realised that this story might not be true, and if true, it's not Malta's fault but Libya's. They should also stop trying to get to their imaginary heaven on people's back. Christmas compassion and stuff like that are just stupid phrases, if you feel compassionate, do something about it yourself, and dont try to impose it on your country.

C Grech

Dec 14th 2010, 10:59

It would be interesting to know of what nationality the reporters are so as to see what their country is doing in this respect.

Remember that when Berlusconi ceases to be in power, the problem will be with us again.

B. Cachia

Dec 14th 2010, 10:52

It's not breaking news that Africa suffers from a variety of problems, including a lack of respect for human rights. But opening our door to large scale immigration would make no difference. Even if we allowed half a million people to come over it would be just a drop in an ocean for them but it would permanently and irrevocably change the ethnic and religious makeup of the islands.

David Buttigieg

Dec 14th 2010, 10:27

Christian compassion at it's best as usual I see.

Edric Micallef Figallo

Dec 14th 2010, 10:14

I'm all for pressuring Libya to adhere to more adequate and substantial fundamental rights guarantees. As for AI, instead of criticising Malta for doing the necessary given the situation, AI and others should challenge Libya itself if it is resorting to torture, as alleged. Sure, AI does recognise the "challenge" for Malta, but its proposal is for Malta to give in while others get reprimanded for torture and essentially get away it. AI is capable of empty words in this situation, nothing more. Since the Maltese are so kind as not to torture anyone, the Maltese should take the burden. No, thanks.

International law should be rewritten if need be, while the true and substantial wrongdoers should be targeted. That doesn't include Malta. Malta has a right to its sovereignty, and calling a spade a spade that includes not being swarmed by hordes of people duped by the "European dream" (nightmare) by the organised crime they make use of and other unscrupulous folks. Thanks goes to the Italian government for its agreement with Libya.

Full support to our government for holding its ground, it must not budge.

Alex Ellul

Dec 14th 2010, 10:07

Quote>>"Torture and other abuse of refugees, asylum-seekers and migrants is systematic in Libya. Guards frequently punch detainees or beat them with metal rods or batons, and those who complain about detention conditions or ask for medical help face assault and other punishment," the report says.

K. Camilleri

Dec 14th 2010, 09:58

If we bring everyone who is under violation of human right, to Europe, there will be no place left for us in our own country. Millions and millions are seeking to leave Africa. What should we do? Bring them to Europe and lose our own kind?

Christian Sciberras

Dec 14th 2010, 09:56

Perhaps the real problem isn't illegal immigration....it's Libya...

Eric Soames

Dec 14th 2010, 09:44

Hmm. Seems like undocumented migrants would be well advised to give Libya and Malta a wide berth then. A Visa - don't leave home without it [apologies to American Express].

James Dimech

Dec 14th 2010, 09:15

Why is Amnesty only "criticising Malta" ?? This is a European problem and each and every European state is responsible.

CZarb

Dec 14th 2010, 09:09

If that is the case then why the UN hasnt imposed sanctions on Libya yet? After all its Libya who had alleged tortured the immigrants and not in Malta. Or is it more the case that these organizations who live upon the illegal immigrants phenomenon are pretending that Malta accept all these 'vulnerable people' in our shores despite our evident limitations and in total disregard that human trafficking is usually lead by organized crime organizations?

We are sick of those people who 'understand our situation' but still pretend us to carry the burden no matter how heavy it is. No one had told immigrants to go to Libya and no one had told them to risk their lives (and the lives of the locals) to come to Malta. Not to forget that any civilized country can book a chartered ship, fill it with immigrants and take them in his homeland. No one will ever complain about that.

B.Attard

Dec 14th 2010, 08:53

That's the only solution to keep these illegal immigrants at bay although I'm against torture . Mr. Malcolm Smart it is very easy to critize instead of giving a helping hand. Should you have any objections take them to your country.

Ronald Apap

Dec 14th 2010, 08:39

Mr Malcolm smart.It is not Malta's fault if the returned migrants are tortured in Libya. What you must do is to work with Libya so that human rights are adhered to. You must tap the evil at the source!

C. Farrugia

Dec 14th 2010, 08:36

We do not want to change the social and cultural face of Malta just because certain african countries are not capable of governing themselves. Malta is too small for these large volumes of ILLEGAL migrants. If I go to any country in the world (outside Schengen) without my passport or some sort of identification I will be thrown out. That is exactly what we should do. We just hope upon all hopes that Berlusconi and his govenrment win to-day's vote as otherwise we will be again inondated wil ILLEGAL migrants.

L. Petersen

Dec 14th 2010, 08:30

Obviously, such incidents are tragic and should be avoided, and I feel truly sorry for these people. However, it doesn't change the fact that Africa's problems cannot be solved by helping the few lucky individuals who are able to pay a human smuggler and manage to cross the sea to Europe. Africa's problems have to solved in Africa, primarily by the Africans themselves. I'm not saying we shouldn't help, but we should help them help themselves. Opening our borders is not the solution.

S. Agius

Dec 14th 2010, 08:23

" were unable to find work and robbed repeatedly, before they decided to leave by boat for Europe"
One wonders where did they then find the money to pay for the boat trip ? These stories are not credible and Amnesty should not throw mud on Libyans. I ve been to Libya and people there are very religous not as depicted here.

Ernest Vella

Dec 14th 2010, 08:22

If Amnesty International has problems, they must seek who tortured them and not Malta, or the Maltese Goverment. While torture is always wrong but Malta cannot be hold responsable for what other nations did.

a.dalli

Dec 14th 2010, 08:11

One cannot blame the Libyan authorities, when the majority of petty and big crimes are committed by - illigals.

There exsit regulation on how to enter a country and these should be respected by all. I would still want to know what happens to a someone who is caught entering Somalia, the Sudan and Eritrea for that matter.

As for Malcolm Smart, why don't you buy one of the Greek islands and put all the illegal immigrants there. Oly then wou will be doing a service to the world society.

J Oatmon

Dec 14th 2010, 08:10

The problem with these stories is we only get a 'filtered and biased one side of the story' situation.

I feel for the plight of these 'illegals' but I also understand they are not all blameless and good people (being poor and vulnerable does not automatically mean you are good virtuous person). I assume there are troublemakers in any group of people.

R.Gauci

Dec 14th 2010, 08:07

@Malcolm Smart

"Malta, however, is not the safe haven they were hoping to reach. Under Maltese law, any new arrivals, including asylum-seekers, are liable to be considered “prohibited immigrants” and face mandatory detention of indeterminate length – in practice up to 18 months".

People entering any country without the required documents or visas will be breaking the international laws too cause that's why passports and travelling visas were invented or else if we do how you are suggesting we should dismantle all boarders controls and burn all passports system! Yes entering a country illegally is a crime and the present 18 months detention system in operation is good even if these people are found to be genuine refugees or else why we should have laws to control this??!!

Frans H Said

Dec 14th 2010, 08:02

With all due respect, let us have tangible proof. When certain "migrants" were sent back to East Africa, there was a hullaballoo about torture. It eventually resulkted that all the descriptions were from BDSM sites, in fact certain pictures were blatantly copied from such sites.

I had liven in Libya for many years. I had access even to high security prisons and the secret police. I have never witnessed any torture of Africans.

The only problem, but not only in Libya, is that coloured people are considered to be third class people suitable only for menial jiobs. On the othe hand such "migrants" were used to work in far worse conditions.

One must remember that Libya in reality is 3 zones, Trpolitania, Cirenaca and Fezzan. The first two have never fully integrated but both agree that the people from Fezzan, which have dark complexions are of lower status. Thus the problem with dark skin in very old and not limited to the supposed "migrants".

People should get their facts right and study history. After all "Africa for the Africans" was a battle cry, unfortunately, the Africans were not yet ready for civilisation.

Joe Grima Brussels

Dec 14th 2010, 08:01

First: ANY human being who is in need MUST be given a dignified welcome, preferably better than we offer at present.
HOWEVER, we must take Mr Mahmoud's story with a pinch of salt, (and a big one)! Many questions arise from his statement. 1. If they coudn't find any work, WHAT were they robbed repeatedly? 2. Which loving husband takes his seven month pregnant wife, plus unborn baby, to a hazardous trip? 3. I believe relatives were kept in the same group when they were split. How come he 'missed' his wife in a group of 55?
'Malta, however, is not the safe haven they were hoping to reach.' If the human rights organisations KNOW this, why don't they organize daily flights so that: 1. Migrants are not robbed. 2. They avoid torture. 3. Save them the dangerous, uncomfortable, and inhumane way they travel in. 4. Take them DIRECTLY to the country they wish. 5. Take couples expecting a baby soon in better conditions. This makes MORE SENSE to me, rather than complain and blame Malta for her 'mistakes.' If Libya gets the 50 million Euros, will they build a serious of five star hotels to accomodate migrants!?!?!

Tommy Lee

Dec 14th 2010, 07:38

If it is true that torture occured in Libya then why are Britain and America along with several other nations falling over each other to trade and invest there?
Ah! it has been revealed that Britain and America like to torture prisoners too.The hypocrisy in the Western World shines like a beacon to despots like Gadaffi the world over.
Time for change, big change.

T Camilleri

Dec 14th 2010, 07:36

AI should put their money where their mouth is and take all the illegal immigrants to their own countries. Let someone try to enter the USA and see whether he is kept under arrest until he is repatriated back on the same plane. Let someone try to enter the illegal immigrants countries illegally and see where he will end up. We are fed up with all these NGOs telling us what to do, so SHUT UP AND POUT YOUR MONEY WHERE YOUR BIG MOUTH IS. TAKE ALL ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS TO YOUR OWN COUNTRY AND HOMES.