'Iva' for divorce committee members named
The 'Iva' for divorce committee members have been named.
The committee will be co-ordinating the campaign in favour of the Divorce Bill, due to be discussed in Parliament and presented to the Maltese electorate for approval in the coming months.
It is composed of MPs Evarist Bartolo (PL) and Jeffrey Pullicino Orlando (PN), AD chairman Michael Briguglio, Michael Falzon, Marlene Mizzi, Yvonne Ebejer-Arqueros, David Micallef St. John, Roderick Bartolo, Etienne Borg and Martin Scicluna. The chairman is Deborah Schembri.
The committee, which has chosen ‘IVA’ as its name, will launch a campaign aimed at encouraging the introduction of the divorce.
The Bill proposes giving individuals whose marriages have failed irrevocably another chance.
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Joe Zammit
Jan 9th 2011, 09:33
BORG IN-NADUR: 17 ta' Novembru, 2010:
Uliedi, illejla tajtkom prova ċara. Iva wliedi, għalhekk Ibni Ġesù qed jibgħatni hawn, fuq dil-gżira. Għalhekk għażilt dil-familja kważi ħames snin ilu. Għalhekk ridt lil Angelik u lil Catherine. Iva wliedi, Ibni Ġesù ma riedx jara żwieġ imfarrak. Għalhekk ħames snin ilu bagħatni hawnhekk, nerġa’ ngħidilkom. Ġejt inħabbrilkom minn qabel x’se jseħħ fuq dil-gżira. Kien hawn min fehemni u oħrajn lanqas biss taw widen.
Ftit taż-żmien ieħor se jkollkom għażla f’idejkom intom stess. Oqogħdu attenti x’tagħżlu wliedi. Iġġibux il-gwaj fuqkom.
Fejnhom fil-familji l-imħabba, l-għaqda, il-maħfra, is-sinċerità u t-talb flimkien? Fejnhom? Għalhekk illum kulħadd qed ifarfar minn fuq spallejh mal-ewwel intopp li jinqala’.
Iva wliedi, il-qalb tiegħi u l-qalb ta’ Ibni Ġesù muġugħin minħabba fikom. Jiena muġugħa għax jiena omm li nħoss għalikom.
Akkost ta’ kollox uliedi, jiġri x’jiġri, ibqgħu għidu: “LE GHAD-DIVORZJU, LE GHAD-DIVORZJU!"
U għidu r-rużarju u ġiegħlu lil ħaddieħor jgħid ir-rużarju.
Grazzi talli smajtu s-sejħa tiegħi.
DGalea
Nov 15th 2010, 20:39
I can think of several reasons why divorce should not be introduced in thiscountry., and NONE of them are religious. People , especially married women should reason with their minds not their hearts before voting IVA. What happens to a relationship is everyone's business so long as it is the tax payer that always ends up paying for someone else's shortcomings including a failed marraige and its fall out. Anyone trying to hoodwink people into beliveing that divorce makes people happier and more fullfilled should look at the the level of happiness enjoyed by families , especially women and children in Islamic world ,where divorce on demand is available for men , whilst polygamy and legitimized one night stands referred to as Muta marriagesare available. Women are the ones who usually end up being shortchanged when a marriage fails and no amount of divorce legislation will change that fact , any more then it will change for the better, a person who is psychologically unfit to take up the responsabilities of marraige and a family.
Steve Pace
Nov 15th 2010, 19:28
At Last ! Momentum counter acting the " False crusaders" picking Up IVA IVA IVA !!!
Mark Piscopo
Nov 15th 2010, 15:13
IVA FOR DIVORCE!
Matthew Grima
Nov 15th 2010, 13:20
Hawn min qal "dak li jghaqqad Alla ma jifirdux il bniedem". U jekk mux Alla ghaqdu iz zwieg bejni u bej marti? X'naghmel imbaghad?
Miriam Attard
Nov 15th 2010, 13:05
I am for IVA as it is needed by a lot of people in this country those of us who are suffering know what I am talking about
Sabrina Borda
Nov 14th 2010, 17:35
I support the IVA for a WIN.
I do it for many reasons, one has to do with the fact that the religious must not have a monopoly on another humans personal life because it is cruel. Another reason is that I will never believe in the impossible and that is; that God had anything to do with my marriage. He 100% did not. This ritual is in no way a divine law other than a concept created by the authors of the church organization. Therefore it is not realistic to consider it as a sin because it would only be absurd.
Besides so many other reasons, this is discrimination that is causing harm to our Maltese brothers and sisters, so just as Dr Emmy Bezzina says it must stop with immediate effect.
Because the issue has taken the similarity of 'Partisan' proportions a referendum would be vindictively unfair by those it does not concern. Divorce is a private issue, not a National one as I have said many times before. Those who do not believe in divorce cannot stop others from that 'Right' if they need it because would be plain and simply wrong.
JOe VELLa
Nov 14th 2010, 15:33
Sir,
I know I will not convince those who want to be blind, yet I feel it my duty to quote from the Good Book to those who I heard them say that they are Catholics and are in the committee of this campaign.
It is written: John 13:20 Amen, amen, I say to you, he that receiveth whomsoever I send receiveth me; and he that receiveth me receiveth him, that sent me.
Can one say that he is a Catholic when he will campaign for divorce?
Divorce as a rule is wrong and is an abomination as those who the Good Lord sent us to guide us advice. Or have we become wiser than the wise.
M Rizzo
Nov 14th 2010, 22:27
@Joe Vella
Not everybody is a Catholic. And some people choose to adopt some (but not all) of the Catholic doctrine - which they are perfectly entitled to do. So what exactly is your point?
JOe VELLa
Nov 15th 2010, 09:10
@M Rizzo
To answer you, those who are not Catholics have a right, not to be, and that is it.
Your reference that some prefer to adopt some of the church teaching not all. Which they are entitled to do so. It is not my competence to argue your assumption.
Your final question, what is my point? I only wish to guide you to the Scripture and refer you when Jesus said it how it is, the apostles told Jesus that followers are leaving, to this Jesus answered:
John 6: 68-69 Then Jesus said to the twelve: Will you also go away? And Simon Peter answered him: Lord, to whom shall we go? Thou hast the words of eternal life.
Paul advise, Colossians 2:8 Beware lest any man cheat you by philosophy and vain deceit; according to the tradition of men, according to the elements of the world and not
according to Christ.
My point is! Any true politician worth his salt and want to be a Catholic politician should follow the teaching of Our Lord, and not exploit Our faith for his political gain.
David Bonello
Nov 15th 2010, 12:14
@joe vella: "I know I will not convince those who want to be blind"
Good joke :)) thanks for this laugh. Keep us informed if you make progress in convincing yourself.
Matthew Grima
Nov 15th 2010, 13:45
I'm not quite sure who's blind here. If you are against divorce, fine don't get it, but please get off your high horse (you might also hit your head on your way down).
Shaun Azzopardi
Nov 15th 2010, 13:47
Campaigning for civil divorce is not incompatible with Jesus' teachings.
Civil divorce is in no way an attempt to render invalid Catholic marriage. Stop conflating civil marriage with Catholic marriage. They're two different abstract ideas belonging to two separate institutions, although the line might be a little blurred here in Malta.
Charlene Giordimaina
Nov 14th 2010, 14:14
6 ta'Novembru 2010
Uffiċjal għoli fil-Gvern Ingliż stqarr li tfal minn familji mkissrin kellhom disa’ darbiet iktar ċans li jwettqu atti kriminali minn tfal oħrajn imrobbijin f’familji stabbli, waqt li kkwantifika l-ispiża tal-Gvern Ingliż minħabba t-tkissir tal-familji bħala £100 biljun.
F’indirizz li għamel lir-rappreżentanti ta’ ‘Relate’, għaqda karitattevoli nazzjonali li hi impenjata fit-tisħiħ tar-relazzjonijiet umani, is-Segretarju tal-Istat għax-Xogħol u l-Pensjonijiet, Iain Duncan Smith, qal li t-tkissir taż-żwieġ wassal għal splużjoni fir-rata ta’ kriminalità, u ddupplikat iċ-ċans li persuna tgħix fil-faqar. Fi kliemu, il-fatt li ż-żwieġ u l-ħajja tal-familja ddgħajjfu wassal biex il-pajjiż iħallas prezz qares fil-forma ta’ iktar faqar u ċansijiet ifqar għall-ulied ta’ familji li tkissru.
Meħuda minn Il-GENSillum.
victor pulis
Nov 14th 2010, 17:45
L-ufficjal ma semmix divorzju, semma tkissir fiz zwieg. Id divorzju mhux il kawza taz zwiegijiet imkissra, hu l-effett. Iz-zwieg diga jkun tkisser meta l-koppja titlob ghad divorzju. Min hu dak il mignun li jkollu zwieg hieni u jitlob biex ihollu?
Victor Vella
Nov 14th 2010, 13:35
Il-knisja qalet Iva for Europe now Iva ghad-divorzju. Sur Knisja issa Iva ukoll. Il-kurcifissi Iva nnehhuhom mela issa IVA ghal kollox.
Kenneth Curmi
Nov 15th 2010, 12:04
Sir,
Your impeccable logic betrays a mental prowess to be envied, as eloquently expressed in your flawless argument which shows a command of the logical intricacies governing deductive argumentation.
DGalea
Nov 14th 2010, 11:51
"P. Borg(36 minutes ago)
Infact you can't still be bound by marriage if love isn't still alive. Given that social life and interaction between people is so complex and behaviour is unpredictable, why should affected parts be constrained not to fall in love again and have a real stable marriage? ....
It is a shame that in Malta one cannot be divorced and marry the one who's in love with.
....This is not a joke...... No wonder this is not a happy nation!! "
Any muslim man reading your words will agree wholeheartedly. Muslim men are the happiest on earth and muslim lands the most joyous. Muslim men are accorded the right to discard and replace a spouse by simply declaring thrice in front of witnesses that he wants to divorce ,or just sms her three times saying "I divorce thee''. The facility for easy divorce is not accorded to a muslim woman though.She has to give a valid reason for applying for divorce , and can then be made to give back to him her mahir(dowry) paid before marriage for the exclusive use of her person in the marriage bed .
By the way , this is no joke.
GiovDeMartino @ Gauci Cunningham
Nov 14th 2010, 10:50
Nahseb is-sur Cunningham ipprova jinghogob mal-hbieb godda tieghu taht il-patrocinju tal-lejber. Dawk imma d-divorzju ma nahsibx li jinteressahom U biex jinghogob zeffen fin-nofs il-politika u l-kazin tal-PN tal-Mosta. Jien fhimtu. Nghidlu biss li min kien in charge mill-bar tal-kazin tnehha mill-partit u jekk iridu tal-lejber jistghu jehduh maghhom bhalma hadu ohrajn li kienu akkuzati bi tbaghbis.
Michael Scicluna
Nov 14th 2010, 10:12
Love and marriage, love and marriage
Go together like a horse and carriage
This I tell you brother
You can't have one without the other
Love and marriage, love and marriage
It's an institute you can't disparage
Ask the local gentry
And they will say it's elementary
Try, try, try to separate them
It's an illusion
Try, try, try, and you will only come
To this conclusion
Love and marriage, love and marriage
Go together like the horse and carriage
Dad was told by mother
You can't have one, you can't have none, you can't have one without the other!
Lyrics for song Love and Marraige.
P. Borg
Nov 14th 2010, 10:46
Infact you can't still be bound by marriage if love isn't still alive. Given that social life and interaction between people is so complex and behaviour is unpredictable, why should affected parts be constrained not to fall in love again and have a real stable marriage?
We enter relationships because the other person becomes part of ourselves and that expands us. That’s why people who fall in love could stay up all night talking and it still feels really exciting even after many years.
It is a shame that in Malta one cannot be divorced and marry the one who's in love with.
So what's next? Xi nisrani li taharqu qalbu mbaghad jiftah xi ghaqda ghad-disprati li jhossuhom emarginati.. This is not a joke, people can have a real strong emotional problem with this constraint. No wonder this is not a happy nation!!
Fenech MD
Nov 15th 2010, 11:42
Zmien li fih ilkoll mistiedna
Ninvestu ghal uliedna
M'ahniex daqstant 'il boghod
Jekk ninsew id-differenzi
jintemmu l-inçertezzi
Saqajna tkun fis-sod
Maghqudin mhux ghaz-zwiegi
Ilkoll id f'id ghax iz-zmien fil-qrib
Pass biex flimkien nghixu lkoll
L-ahjar gejjien
Iva ghad-dhul tad-divorzju
l-ghazla taghna
Nghidu iva biex uliedna
fil-gejjieni jgawdu maghna
Iva ghalina. Ghal uliedna.
Ghal pajjizna
Nghidu iva...
Zgur bid-dhul tad-divorzju
Hemm post ghalik u ghalija
Kenn ghal kull cittadin
Din hi darna naturali
Ghal nies bhalek u bhali
F'idejna dad-destin.
Eh!
Sander Depasquale
Nov 14th 2010, 09:56
People are never fed up!
So if one feels so attracted to someone and wants to have a family one marries to build one's future. Everybody wants to get married for security reasons. Even homosexuals wants to get married. And some people wants to marry more than one wife or even more than one husband!
If one feels so uncomfortable in marriage one wants to leave to marry someone else, so people wants divorce.
I imagine God saying what do you want then?!
Listen to the nature and probably you will find an answer.....Marriage was created by MAN with the excuse that it is coming from GOD.
Charmaine Marmara'
Nov 14th 2010, 09:45
so if the people vote no ,which i believe many are those who still live in stone age and say no, does that mean we dont get the divorce here in malta ? i vote yes and trust me im happily married but still I VOTE YES TO DIVORCE ...
Kevin Grech
Nov 14th 2010, 09:45
Why are the ones against divorce against this law.... ???? If you dont need it its not going to effect you in anyway. Why stand in the way of others. The funny thing is that if you go abroad and get divorced our county excepts it. So this is unfair. Equal rights for everybody.
Joseph M. Meli
Nov 14th 2010, 09:22
Good selection of cross border serious and CREDIBLE people.
Congrats to all and US the People are behind you in this Issue.
Al LAVORO !!!
l.zammit
Nov 14th 2010, 08:42
do the 'iva' for divorce committee members know the difference between, seperation, annulment and divorce? from what i read somewhere else; it gave me the empression that maybe some of them do not know! :( Divorce is one of the consequences of individualism 'society' . . . . where people agree to make stuff to accomodate their needs and does not care about the effects on future generations. if we humans are less selfish and less self-centered, the world will be a better place to live . . and that's for sure!
ray sacco
Nov 14th 2010, 23:12
@l.zammit:
can you illuminate us and explain the difference between divorce and annullment? because no matter how much you and other catholic fanatics try to twist your verbal skills, the fact is that they both end up with the same conclusion: the TERMINATION of a marriage! there is of course the difference of the financial element, that is, in which bank accounts the cash is ending up!
A. Borg
Nov 14th 2010, 07:43
Issa ftit ta zmien iehor u naghmlu "Iva ghall-Abort"".
Mark Brincat
Nov 14th 2010, 11:06
U wara l-Abbort IVA ghal-gwerra kontra l-Iran!! Ara fhiex ha ggibuna!
A. Borg
Nov 14th 2010, 05:34
Anyone who divorces his wife and marries another woman commits adultery against her. And if she divorces her husband and marries another man, she commits adultery (Mark 10:11-12).
victor pulis
Nov 14th 2010, 10:52
What God has joined together let no man put asunder. Putting asunder means separating. The church accepts separation and invented annullment in lieu of divorce as a loop hole,. Nowhere is annullment mentioned in the gospels.
ialamango
Nov 14th 2010, 12:36
and what if I am a Maltese Citizien and I am not Catholic? Can i have divorce in Malta?
Alex Ciantar
Nov 14th 2010, 03:55
It is amusing to see all those against Divorce are up in arms & in a panic frenzy on the introduction of this newly formed committee. So far the pro divorce issue was only on the shoulders of a few individuals such. So it is an excellent initiative that this group is formed to educate the nation that divorce is not evil or a threat to society as is commonly portrayed but a relief to those who are in dire need of it & including families around them.
Divorce will be welcomed by those victims of failed and broken down marriages & that are in need to be divorced so that they can marry again & live a second married life in harmony and dignity without being branded with words such as cohabitation & "poggutti". They may claim their basic human rights such as all benefits that are entitled to married couples e.g. being taxed as a married and not single etc.
I am not against in making every effort to fix marriages that are in difficulty this should be the first resort but for those that have had a marriage that is beyond repair Divorce is the only solution.
luke catania
Nov 14th 2010, 00:25
Iva ghalina ghal uliedna...ghal pajjizna. nkun ciniku qieghed. id-divorzju hu dnub mejjet. Kristu ma riedux = dnub mela. Qatt ma tista l-Knisja zzewweg koppja gdida.
victor pulis
Nov 14th 2010, 10:50
Gesu qal dak li jghaqqad Alla ma jifirdux il bniedem. Il knisja taccetta is separazzjoni (firda) u vvintat l-annullament (divorzju mit tieqa) li ma ssibu mkien fit taghlim ta' kristu.
Rigward it tieni zwieg jekk ikun hemm .Il koppji mhumiex jitolbu li jizzewwgu bil knisja. Kif inhuma l-affarijiet lanqas bic civil ma jistghu jizewwgu. Fl ahhar nett ftakar li mhux kulhadd hu kattoliku
Philip Hili
Nov 13th 2010, 23:55
Do you remember a few months ago Dr. Marlene Pullicino Orlando saw the light and from a position against divorce she said that now she is in favour of divorce? Do your remember her saying that on her way to Germany (Ithink Germay) visiting her daughter who was sick she meet Dr. Jeffrey Pullicino Orando on the plane and suggested to promote the issue together??
ISSA L-ANQAS FUQ IL-KUMITAT MA GIET MAHTURA. Tghid reget dawret hsiebha?
Alfred Gatt
Nov 13th 2010, 23:22
A few months ago there was a great furore because of an advert against divorce in front of a church. People always accuse the Chruch of crusades. What about this movemnt? Isn't this a crusade? It would be interesting to know how these persons look at marriage, (presuming they are married), how they see their own marriage and their present state of their marriage. Are they are separated persons? What are their reasons for being part of this movement? Answers to these questins are solicited as not everyone knows everyone. Transparency is of utmost importance.
Dr Stephen Staines
Nov 13th 2010, 22:55
More than just a divorce law, people ought perhaps to try to nurture a sense of responsibility, even moral responsibility, to enter into mature and stable relationships, to constantly weigh up the implications of what they are doing, and not rush in where angels fear to tread. Speaking for myself, I am comfortably numb but I cannot help noticing that some people don't necessarily learn from mistakes and have this compulsive urge to go from one mess onto another.
jcamilleri
Nov 13th 2010, 22:35
What are the credentials of these people to be chosen for this committee?
The name IVA is chosen to ride on the popularity of the Moviment Iva ghall-Ewropa. How original and honest, hux?
PN has no mandate to present this bill in parliament during this legislature. It's a cheat!
Kulhadd jaghmel kif jaqbillu, ghall-voti!
Christian Sciberras
Nov 14th 2010, 00:53
"Evarist Bartolo (PL) and Jeffrey Pullicino Orlando (PN)"
jcamilleri - Uza ghajnejk bix taqra siehbi!!!
Christian Sciberras
Nov 14th 2010, 00:58
What are your credentials to ask those questions? Eh?
m farrugia
Nov 13th 2010, 22:34
jien ha naghmel bhal ma ghamlu hafna fl elezzjoni generali u ta l-EP
ma jinteressanix u ma nivvutax, ghlafejn ghandi nivvota iva jew le jekk ma jinteressanix
Dr. Geoffrey Schembri Adami Med.Vet
Nov 13th 2010, 21:19
"To dissent from the teachings of Christ and of His Church in any important matter of faith or morals, especially those related to God’s Commandments, such as with regards to the sanctity and indissolubility of marriage, as God wills it and has established right from the very beginning of creation, is to automatically separate oneself from Christ, to lose one’s communion with Him, and to violate, nullify and loose one’s Catholic identity. Whoever is in this situation cannot call himself a Catholic, nor consider himself as a disciple of Christ. Those who dissent from the teachings of Christ and of His Church on such fundamental issues, are choosing to serve their own pride, their own selfishness, their own lust, their own comfort, instead of loving and serving God by following His Commandments. These people think that they know as much as God, or even more than Him, so they do not need to follow the Divine Word of His Son and the teachings of His Church. That same self-pride that led to the fall of Adam and Eve, who wanted to become like God"!
SAINT JOHN MARY VIANNEY (the Curé of Ars)
victor pulis
Nov 13th 2010, 22:51
Didn't know JZ had a win brother!
Joseph Aquilina
Nov 13th 2010, 23:19
And from which part of your Veterinary course did yout get all this?
Christian Sciberras
Nov 14th 2010, 00:57
How convenient. I could quote a passage from the other side of the Bible to prove my points.
Except both your quote and mine are completely useless with or against the actual argument.
If you had something to say, at least put some sense and forethought into it...
JOSEPH ZAMMIT
Nov 14th 2010, 06:49
ANY MORE SCARY TACTICS?
...After all, what is YOUR opinion?
matin saliba
Nov 14th 2010, 08:10
http://www.metro.co.uk/home/20616-pope-limbo-does-not-exist
The above is also ma teaching of your great church. With this teaching the church cause unmeasurable suffering to many god fearing parents.
A cassar
Nov 14th 2010, 18:46
Thank God that you deal with animals in your day to day life, because humans have rights and freedoms which animals don't.......but you seem not to believe that we live in a free world and your opinion doesn't matter as long as the decision by two consenting adults does not harm you. With animals things are different...but we are not dealing with dogs cats and farm animals over here!!!
Dr. Geoffrey Schembri Adami Med.Vet
Nov 13th 2010, 21:14
"You are either with God, by following all His Commandments faithfully, unconditionally &coherently, but also by promoting &defending them without compromise, or else you are against Him by doing what displeases Him &goes against His Divine Will. There is no middle way between these two choices. It is up to you to choose between these two, but then, one fine day, which you do not know when, you will have to render Him an account of your choice.
Our Lord made it very clear: 'Not whoever says: 'Lord! Lord! enters the kingdom of Heaven, but whoever does the Will of My Father in Heaven.' Jesus, who is 'the Way, the Truth &the Life' for He is God-Incarnate, said to us: 'He who loves Me follows My Commandments and abides by My Word. Those who do not follow My Commandments &do not keep My Word do not Love Me'
Keeping in mind the teachings of Christ on the sanctity and indissolubility of marriage, anyone who is in favour of introducing divorce in his country, especially those who promote its legislation, should not consider himself a Catholic, nor is he worthy of being Christ's disciple."
THE SERVANT OF GOD POPE PIUS XII.
Peter Dingli
Nov 13th 2010, 23:10
What ever happened to free will
m. briffa
Nov 14th 2010, 22:35
Thank you Dr. G. Schembri Adami... God Bless
f. agius
Nov 13th 2010, 21:05
MIN FALLIELU Z-ZWIEG, JOQGHOD JGHIX WAHDU FIL-PACI. U MELA JERGA JIDHOL FL-INKWIET.
B. Cachia
Nov 13th 2010, 21:20
Mhux ahjar jiddeciedu huma?
Vicki Soler
Nov 14th 2010, 08:11
Int ghamel li trid imma halli lil hadd iehor jidiciedi hu Grazzi
Dr. John Zammit
Nov 13th 2010, 20:38
I cannot understand how we were not consulted to be in the committee, when I and Dr. Emmy Bezzina were the pioneers in the campaign for divorce more then thirty years ago and we also founded the Malta Divorce Movement - www.freewebs.com/maltadivorce - I cannot understand how things are done in this country.I have just returned from London where I had talks with the Liberal Democrats (our sister party who are in government) and when I told them that we are still fighting for the right of divorce they were bewildered how in Malta we do not have a divorce law - Dr. John Zammit - Leader, Alleanza Liberali - www.malta-liberals.org
J Mizzi
Nov 13th 2010, 23:09
Maybe because both of you seem to be a little eccentric, and your presence would be a liability to the aims of the committee? Just a thought ... you don't need to be offended...
Philip Hili
Nov 13th 2010, 23:30
@ Dr. John Zammit
Because Dr. Jeffrey Pullicino Orlando wants to make this bill his own!! and not others. It would have been no surprise if you were forming part of the government and push your idea further, because the Maltese people knew what was your agenda. But things are different because Dr. Jeffrey Pullicino Orlando never spoke of this subject prior to the general election.
To add insult to injury, when the PN councilors were summoned to approve the electoral manifseto to which Dr. Jeffrey Pullicino Orlando was present for that meeting, he knew that this subject was not included in the manifesto and he voted in favour of the electoral manifesto.
As regards to your sister party in Great Briton - the Liberal Democrats of Mr. Glegg please inform him not to make another guff as he did when he first opened his mouth as Deputy Prime Minister.
Christian Sciberras
Nov 14th 2010, 00:55
First of, get rid of freewebs...it's shameful for such a serious campaign...
Dr. John Zammit
Nov 14th 2010, 15:34
I don't mind if Jeffrey Pullicino Orlando want to make the campaign for himself, as long as divorce is introduced as soon as possible and before the coming general election. All I can say is that I and Alleanza Liberali are for IVA CAMPAIGN and we are ready to support and do all that is necessary so that this time divorce will be in like the other countries. I can say that I have in 2004 presented an individual petition to the Committe of Petitions of the European Parliament which was admissable and put on the agenda of the same parliament. Every push helps, so now I auger this committee to succeed and to ask for our help if need be. We support them at all cost.
dvella
Nov 13th 2010, 20:35
jekk tridu d divorzju huduh!! u izzewwgu aktar minn mitt darba jekk ikunilkom bizzejjed!!!
paxxu l-qrati u l-avukati!!!!!!!!
victor pulis
Nov 13th 2010, 21:03
Bl istess argument nghid jekk tridu tizzewwgu izzewwgu u rriskjaw li ma ssibux xorti!
Gerard Cassar
Nov 13th 2010, 20:11
A vote for divorce could be positive by including in the legislation the proviso as defined in the article 2383 of the cathechism of the Catholic Church.Then everybody will be in favour. For example a proviso saying : I am applying for divorce in order to safeguard my civil and other rights and those of my dependents or something similar in legal terms.
J. Gauci
Nov 13th 2010, 19:40
Nikkwota "Dak li jghaqqad Alla ma jhassru hadd" ???? Allura dak li jinghaqad m'Alla jista jithassar kif u meta jrid HU! Is-sorijiet jissejjhu gharajjes ta kristu, forsi ghalhekk ma jissejjhux in-nisa jew il-mara ta kristu?? Huwa tajjeb li z-zwieg tipprova ssalvah, izda hadd ma jghid kemm hawn tfal, nisa u rgiel qed ibghatu ghaliex ikun hemm dizgwid kbir fiz-zwieg bejn il-koppji. Tahsbu li huwa sew li l-ulied jitrabbew f'ambjent ta glied? F'ambjent ta tkissir bejn il-koppji? Jista xi hadd jghatini spjegazzjoni ta x'tista tghamel mara/ragel li t/jkun qed tigi msawwt/a fizikament jew mahqur/a moralment? Forsi diga hawn soluzzjoni 1:Separazzjoni bic-civil li jiehu average ta hames snin. 2: Annullament bic-civil li jiehu average ta sena. 3:annullament bil-knisja li jiehu average ta 4 snin. Apparti hekk biex tghaddi minn dawn il-proceduri trid tlesti minn tal-inqas 8,000 euro. Hawn hafna nies jiggudikaw u jghidulek dak missek rajtu qabel!! l-antiki jghidu z-zwieg kaxxa maghluqa= koabitazzjoni qabel iz-zwieg??
T.Cauchi
Nov 13th 2010, 19:25
Nixtieq li tghaddi l-IVA ghal raguni wahda u semplici. Sabiex tal kurja inehhu nofs l-arja li ghandhom u jirrealizzaw li l-pajjiz jitmexxa mil gvern li ikun ghazel il poplu u mhux minnhom! ( ghalkemm il hsara (brain washing) li diga ser fuq il generazzjonijiet ta qabilna hija irriversibbli u zgur li ser jivvutaw LE ) Sa issa huma dejjem fil gvern kienu qishom, ghax li jghidu huma, vangelu ghal kulhadd (ironikament). Nittama li 2010 kulhadd tghallem jiddeciedi b'mohhu!
R.Borg
Nov 13th 2010, 19:15
BROKEN FAMILIES COST THE BRITISH GOVERNMENT 100 BILLION BRITISH POUNDS
Posted: 10 Nov 2010 01:34 AM PST
Uffiċjal għoli fil-Gvern Ingliż stqarr li tfal minn familji mkissrin kellhom disa’ darbiet iktar ċans li jwettqu atti kriminali minn tfal oħrajn imrobbijin f’familji stabbli, waqt li kkwantifika l-ispiża tal-Gvern Ingliż minħabba t-tkissir tal-familji bħala £100 biljun.
F’indirizz li għamel lir-rappreżentanti ta’ ‘Relate’, għaqda karitattevoli nazzjonali li hi impenjata fit-tisħiħ tar-relazzjonijiet umani, is-Segretarju tal-Istat għax-Xogħol u l-Pensjonijiet, Iain Duncan Smith, qal li t-tkissir taż-żwieġ wassal għal splużjoni fir-rata ta’ kriminalità, u ddupplikat iċ-ċans li persuna tgħix fil-faqar. Fi kliemu, il-fatt li ż-żwieġ u l-ħajja tal-familja ddgħajjfu wassal biex il-pajjiż iħallas prezz qares fil-forma ta’ iktar faqar u ċansijiet ifqar għall-ulied ta’ familji li tkissru.
L-indirizz li għamel Duncan Smith, il-ġurnal Daily Mail sejjaħlu bħala “fost l-iżjed difiżi b’saħħithom taż-żwieġ minn uffiċjal ewlieni tal-Gvern fl-aħħar snin”. L-istess ġurnal Brittaniku qal li d-diskors ipoġġi lil Duncan Smith f’kuntrast dirett mal-pożizzjoni meħuda mill-predeċessuri tiegħu fil-gvernijiet immexxija minn Tony Blair u Gordon Brown, li kienu saħqu li ż-żwieġ ma kienx importanti u li l-Gvern ma kellux jindaħal fl-għażliet tan-nies u kif dawn jorganizzaw ħajjithom.
Mehuda minn IL-GENS ILLUM
VERAMENT GHANDHOM BIEX JIFTAHRU!
TIBZGHUX TA' KULHADD TASAL!
T.Cauchi
Nov 13th 2010, 19:47
Ieqaf u ahseb. Xi tghid dwar tfal illegittimi u single parents? Ma tapplikax l-istess statistika ghalihom? ma jiswewhx ammont sostanzjali ta flus? m'humiex forsi dawk il familji imkissrin li kien qieghed jirreferi ghalihom? Id-divorzju mhux necessarjament jinstiga il firda miz zwieg, izda l-ghaqda fi zwieg iehor. Jiddependi kif thares lejh, jew ahjar kif qeghdin IGGHALUK thares lejh.
P.S.
"Mehuda minn IL-GENS ILLUM"
The end said it all!!! :D a very clear example of brain washing
JOSEPH ZAMMIT
Nov 13th 2010, 19:50
Mr. Borg., may I ask what has divorce to do with broken marriages?
You are implying that since in Malta divorce is not legalized, we do not have broken marriages?
victor pulis
Nov 13th 2010, 20:39
"Uffiċjal għoli fil-Gvern Ingliż stqarr li tfal minn familji mkissrin kellhom disa’ darbiet iktar ċans li jwettqu atti kriminali minn tfal oħrajn imrobbijin f’familji stabbli,"
M'hemm imkien imsemmi d-divorzju. Familji mkissra ma jfissirx kppji ddivorzjati imma zwiegijiet li ma rnexxewx.
axuereb
Nov 13th 2010, 20:55
" R. Borg: Ghidilna ftit kemm iddahhal il-knisja mill -annullamenti? (Jew din l-informazzjoni ma ssibhiex fil-Gens?). Jekk dak li jghaqqad Alla ma jhollu hadd, allura l-knisja kif tannulla z-zwigijiet? Missha tghidilhom jibqaw kif inhuma lil koppji li jirrikorru ghandha ghall-annullament, bhalma qed tghid li ghandhom jghamlu dawk li jridu d-divorzju.
IVA GHAD-DIVORZJU F MALTA!
mmallia
Nov 13th 2010, 19:09
If we lived in Utopia i'd say no...But we don't
J. Schembri
Nov 13th 2010, 18:54
Why wasn't Dr Emmy Bezzina invited to sit on this 'Iva' comitee? He's been working so hard in the open Maltese political arena on divorce for the past thirty years or so. His exclusion means that his Liberal party has been excluded
Andrew Farrugia
Nov 14th 2010, 00:07
Miskin! Mela ghalhekk qabzitlu!
Schembri Ray
Nov 13th 2010, 18:43
perplexing. very perplexing. Saying no (to Marriage) you've previously said yes (on Wedding day). Naming a movement Yes! to something you don't want anymore (marriage).
victor pulis
Nov 13th 2010, 18:42
Wilfred Camilleri(2 minutes ago)
@victor pulis I didn't mention the Catholic Church, you did!
1. Of course you didn't. Otherwise you would have had to come to the same conclusion I did.
Kids are traumatized when parents either are abusive or separate/divorce. No label attached to such an action will make any difference to the children!
2. So I presume you are also opposed to separation and annullment as they too cause trauma in children.
And I know many cohabiting and remarried couples who are on their third relationship because it's too easy to get divorced.
3. Which means that one cannot generalise and one must admit that second marriages can either succeed or fail...in fact much like first marriages.
Wilfred Camilleri
Nov 13th 2010, 20:02
@victor pulis No, actually. Although the Church has a position on Divorce, as it should, my point is that children are the ones most hurt by divorce and separation.
I'm personally not in favour of divorce. However I'm totally opposed to divorce "on demand" like divorce laws that some countries have legalized and I'm totally opposed to civil divorce and separation if no reconciliation efforts have been made.
Yes, second marriages can succeed and can fail like first marriages can, but many people nowadays get divorced because they cannot see another of the opposite sex without wanting to be with them. Such people should not get married in the first place. If divorce is allowed, it should be because there is abuse involved or because the couple cannot otherwise reconcile
victor pulis
Nov 13th 2010, 20:49
"Wilfred Camilleri(33 minutes ago)
@victor pulis No, actually. Although the Church has a position on Divorce, as it should, my point is that children are the ones most hurt by divorce and separation.
1. So we are agreed on this but I also include annullment.
I'm personally not in favour of divorce. However I'm totally opposed to divorce "on demand" like divorce laws that some countries have legalized and I'm totally opposed to civil divorce and separation if no reconciliation efforts have been made.
2. The proposed divorce is not the Las Vegas type. and couples need to exhaust all possible means of reconciliation andhave to be separaated for at least 4 years.
Yes, second marriages can succeed and can fail like first marriages can, but many people nowadays get divorced because they cannot see another of the opposite sex without wanting to be with them. Such people should not get married in the first place. If divorce is allowed, it should be because there is abuse involved or because the couple cannot otherwise reconcile.
3. Exactly (see above) so you are in favour of divorce in certain cases..
Carmelo Briffa
Nov 13th 2010, 18:31
Issa wasal il-waqt li nkunu nafu min huma dawk il-politikanti li ghandhom ghal qalbhom il-valuri serji ta'socjeta Maltija u l' ghejra ta'nazzjonijjiet ohra, u fuq kollox ir-rispett lejn l-ulied li ghandna tkun l-ewwel u l-unika rifflessjoni ta din l-agenda. Mhux lejn l-egojizmu personali.
Karmnu
axuereb
Nov 13th 2010, 21:01
Illuminana fuq dawn il-valuri serji ta pajjizna! Hares harsa madwarek u tara fejn qeghdin il-valuri serji hawn Malta. Prosit lil dawk il-politikanti li jghazlu li jghatu cans lil min hu batut. Kuragg, flimkien kollox possibli!
GiovDeMartino @ Alfred Camilleri
Nov 13th 2010, 18:19
jien fuq l-irgiel normali qed nitkellem Sur Camilleri
Bud Moureaux - Flanders (BE) & Xemxija, SPB (MT)
Nov 13th 2010, 18:03
@Dr EMMANUEL BEZZINA,LL.D., David Caruana &many others:
Pleased to read your comments.
Have sent an email to Marlene Pullicino inviting her to join 'IVA' now. Awaiting her reply.
Divorce in most cases is not at all an easy way out but a realistic way to end the suffering of a marriage broken down beyond repair. Therefore, to Malta's MPs of all parties:
(1) Separate State and Church, i.e. abolish Art.2 of the Constitution immediately.
(2) Introduce a well balanced civil divorce legislation, respecting the rights and interests of all parties concerned, the spouses, their children and society.
This is already 50 years overdue. Maltese will be grateful for this courageous act. An untenable situation will then finally cease to persist. In this way, Malta will become a real secular society where Maltese effectively can decide for themselves without fearing to be bullied by Mgr. XYZ and consorts. The Church should restrict its role to its teaching and advice to its own flock but refrain by all means from dictating what people should or shouldn't do.
Bud Moureaux, partially residing in Flanders (northern Dutch speaking part of Belgium) and in Xemxija, SPB. I love Malta and its people.
m. briffa
Nov 14th 2010, 22:45
I am Maltese and I'm sure that you do not even respect me, let alone "love" me...
Charlene Giordimaina
Nov 13th 2010, 17:53
You say YES, I say NOOO!!!!
Charles J. Buttigieg
Nov 13th 2010, 19:18
You have all the divine right to say no for yourself but not any God's given right to say no for others.
Charlene Giordimaina
Nov 14th 2010, 14:13
Than pay for your toughtless decisions.
J. Vella
Nov 13th 2010, 17:45
Issa la dan il kumitat jismu iva tistghu tuzaw id diska tar referenderum ta l ewropa, flok Ewropa tintuza il kelma divorzju.
" Iva ghad-divorzju ghal Uliedna"
nahseb ghawn xi haga tistghana xorta x tahsbu
victor pulis
Nov 13th 2010, 17:42
Wilfred Camilleri(22 minutes ago)
"The Bill proposes giving individuals whose marriages have failed irrevocably another chance." Another chance at what? Another irrevocably failed marriage?
1.Not necessarily. I know cohabiting couples who have been together for twenty and even thirty years. divorce will give them the chance to regularise their position in the eyes of the law.
more traumatized children?
2.Is separation or catholic divorce (aka annullment) any less traumatic?
3. Spending more money to hire lawyers?
Is catholic divorce given away gratis?
Wilfred Camilleri
Nov 13th 2010, 18:32
@victor pulis I didn't mention the Catholic Church, you did!
Kids are traumatized when parents either are abusive or separate/divorce. No label attached to such an action will make any difference to the children!
And I know many cohabiting and remarried couples who are on their third relationship because it's too easy to get divorced.
Joe Micallef
Nov 13th 2010, 17:40
Wow what an original name - I'm speechless!
Who was the brilliant mind that conceived it?
Mario Bonnici
Nov 13th 2010, 17:32
Nhidu IVAAAA
kevin mifsud
Nov 13th 2010, 17:31
I just wish to ask all those who will vote LE to pray for the IVA committee members and those who eventually will vote IVA
Michael Spiteri
Nov 13th 2010, 18:12
Mela start praying for me!
martin saliba
Nov 13th 2010, 18:22
Oh my oh my. I'm so scared i just might vote no.
eugene sapiano
Nov 13th 2010, 18:39
You might as well pray for me as well.
victor pulis
Nov 13th 2010, 19:12
How considerate of you. Thank you very much.
charlo' sammut
Nov 13th 2010, 17:23
the answer is no ... i thing try to fix it not brake it
Joseph Calleja
Nov 13th 2010, 17:46
Usually it is already broken beyond fixing. You can only fix something so many times. Like a car, sometimes you have to total it. It makes sense.
charlo' sammut
Nov 13th 2010, 22:37
dak li jaqqad alla mandux jifirdu il bnidem ......u full stop....
Kurt G Pace
Nov 13th 2010, 17:12
You can count on my YES vote..... and also the votes of thousands of others. Well done
R.Zammit
Nov 13th 2010, 17:02
What will happen if the referendum question is "Do you think Malta's stance on divorce should remain the same?!!
S Bonnici
Nov 13th 2010, 19:47
That's a real good one!!!!
Paul Buhagiar
Nov 13th 2010, 17:00
The PN in principle is against Divorce - True Maltese christians, let's Vote for the PARTY who is truly against divorce. The compilation of this committee is clear sign that the LP is leading this initiative.
B. Cachia
Nov 13th 2010, 17:24
Can you please explain why you think that the PN is in principle against divorce? As far as I know there's nothing in the statute about the subject and the party has not taken a position yet. Its supporters likewise appear to be split between those who support divorce legislation and those who oppose it.
Wilfred Camilleri
Nov 13th 2010, 17:54
@B. Cachia Yes and no. Someone needs to look after the interest of the children and in most cases, one or both of the parents involved in a divorce are looking after their own interest and not that of their kids!
Joseph Calleja
Nov 13th 2010, 18:02
"The PN in principle is against Divorce." You are talking about the party. What about the people? Do they have any say so in all this? I am for no party but I do think the people have a say so in what governs their lives. And who are the True Maltese Christians are you talking about? Because I consider myself a true Maltese Christian and I consider myself Catholic and I also favour divorce. My choice.
F J Brincat
Nov 13th 2010, 21:15
What an absurd comment by Mr Buhagiar. Obviously a poor attempt at trying to politicize the divorce issue. Back to the 50's and 60's are we?
Philip Hili
Nov 13th 2010, 23:44
@ Mr. Paul Buhagiar
U PL ha rikba rhisa minn fuq dahar Dr. Jeffrey Pullicino Orlando. Nesa Dr. Jeffrey Pullicino Orlando it-tattika li kien qieghed juzha il-PN, dik li jikkommetti lil Dr. Muscat biex johrog bdil-bahnanata hu????? Taf x'naf inghid li Dr. Jeffrey Pullicino Orlando paxxa lill Dr. Joseph Muscat u l-Partit Laborista.
M Bonello
Nov 13th 2010, 16:57
i am happy to see that for the 'Yes' campaign there are members from all the political parties rather than one option being associated with one political party and the other option with another political party, as in the European Union Referendum. Wouldn't that referendum have made much more sense if it were more similar to this?
For once I am proud of my country.
Good Luck "IVA" campaign !!!!!!!!
Wilfred Camilleri
Nov 13th 2010, 16:53
"The Bill proposes giving individuals whose marriages have failed irrevocably another chance." Another chance at what? Another irrevocably failed marriage? A couple more traumatized children? Spending more money to hire lawyers?
B. Cachia
Nov 13th 2010, 17:26
That's their affair. No one has any right to decide other people's private lives for them, even if one thinks that one knows better.
Philip Hili
Nov 13th 2010, 23:46
@ Mr. Cachia,
It works both ways.
B. Cachia
Nov 14th 2010, 18:32
@ Philip Hili: If you mean that no one should be forced to get divorced either, then yes, I certainly agree with you.
Ronald Cauchi
Nov 13th 2010, 16:43
Where do I sign to join? I was happily married for 28 years till I was widowed, but I have always been a strong supporter of the righ to divorce. Its time for all of us who believe in civil rights to join together irrespective of our religious, political or other differences.
C Gatt
Nov 13th 2010, 16:34
Andrew Farrugia is on a roll, complaining that the "Maltese Media" ......
..... (is) gagging, or otherwise censoring the views of those who are against" and then publishing no less then four comments in the space of one article ( not including the above comment.) And what gems. His definition of civil society is "anything from vandals to pacifists to activists to agent provocateurs."
Claims that the people on the group "have made it amply clear that no public pronouncements of any words, promises, declarations, or vows need to be taken seriously and are thus to be considered as mere prattle. but doesn't explain how or why?
And very cheekily asks why Marlene Pullicino isn't on the board ( nudge, nudge, wink, wink)
How very entertaining. Keep them coming Drew!
Andrew Farrugia
Nov 13th 2010, 16:54
Hahaha! I am glad you appreciate humour! How about counting the sudden ripostes of certain characters as well? After all, all are free to express themselves anyway they like, don't you think?
C Gatt
Nov 13th 2010, 19:55
Your the one who claimed to be censored.. so i counted yours :)
Andrew Farrugia
Nov 14th 2010, 00:25
No worries at all, there will be time enough for you to do the counting.
Andrew Farrugia
Nov 14th 2010, 12:30
@ C Gatt
"and very cheekily asks why Marlene Pullicino is not on the board"; btw now we have Mons. Bud Moureaux who has already invited her and others to join; the guy has some clout it seems.
JOe VELLa
Nov 13th 2010, 16:24
Sir,
We the people especially pensioners are tangled in taught of how we are going to spend the latest government cost of living increase of ONE EURO and some cents. A bread and butter issue. Yet some politicians are not interested to protest and stand against this pathetic increase but to organize themselves to influence us on Divorce, of course this will suit nicely to some in this committee. I always taught politicians are there to represent the voice of the people. What a joke!
I suggest to these so claiming to be Christian politicians to do what they like but leave the church alone!
SHAME
B. Cachia
Nov 13th 2010, 17:29
No one is doing anything to the Church or to Catholics. Nothing whatsoever changes for them with the introduction of divorce legislation.
Joseph Aquilina
Nov 13th 2010, 16:04
By the sheer comments that this group is already receiving - even at the outset of its work - I would say that their task is going to be pretty successful. Don't you think?
A. Hili
Nov 13th 2010, 15:55
The Maltese Government and not the citizens should decide whether to introduce divorce or not. They usually decide on other important issues, don't they?
Alfred Camilleri
Nov 13th 2010, 15:47
Giovanni Demartino. Again, young beauties, dressed or undressed. It's becoming a fixation with you. Do I smell any Freudian slips around?
GiovDeMartino
Nov 13th 2010, 15:26
Ha nghidha bil-Malti forsi niftehmu. Jien MA GHEDTX li d-divorzju huwa kagun tal-young beauties. Jien GHEDT li zgur li l-irgiel li fin-natura taghhom, jekk ikunu normali, ma jistghux jaraw dublett, nirrepeti: l-irgiel bilfors li d-divorzju joghgobhom ghax haw wisq fejn jixxalaw illum. Mhux qed nghid li dawn il-young beasuties bilfors ikunu kagun tad-divorzju, IIIMMMMMMMAAAAA. Ghaliex barra, kwazi kulmin jiddivorzja darba jibqa jiddivorzja sakemm jibqa' jiehu nifs. Jekk ma fhimtux, jiddispjacini.
Joseph Calleja
Nov 13th 2010, 16:49
U min qallek li in-nisa ma jridux id-divorce ukoll? Jien nahseb in-nisa iridu id-divorce izjed mil-irgiel ghaliex in-nisa l-izjed li jigu ittrattati hazin mil-irgiel. Il-mentalita li ir-ragel huwa superjuri izjed min mara jezisti biss fil-pajjizi gharbin. Hafna irgiel Maltin ghadhom jimxu fuq din is-sistema. Veru jew le? Il-mara ghanda dritt daqs kemm ghandu ragel. Is-sena 2010
victor pulis
Nov 13th 2010, 17:33
Sur Demartino,
Min jiddivorzja l-ewwel darba jigifieri tfarraklu l-ewwel zwieg. Allura iz-zwieg mhux tajjeb? Bhal ma jista' ma jirnexxix l-ewwel zwieg jista' jirnexxi t-tieni bhal ma naf kazi fejn irnexxa. Naf b'kazi fejn anke koppji jikkoabitaw ilhom flimkien ghoxrin, tletin sena.
Dr Ing Patrick Attard
Nov 13th 2010, 15:25
Well done on the initiative and Good Luck!
A. Borg
Nov 13th 2010, 14:58
Dak li jghaqqad Alla ma jhassru hadd. Fitxu dak li jghaqqadna u mhux dak li jiffridna. Fitxu il-pozittiv u mhux in-negattiv.
michael scicluna
Nov 13th 2010, 16:27
anke l ordni sagri ghaqqdu alla.....imma konvenjentament jithassar!!
victor pulis
Nov 13th 2010, 17:23
xX'JIDHIRLEK MIS SEPARAZZJONI? DIK MHIX FIRDA WKOLL BIEX MA NSEMMUX ID DIVORZJU STIL KATTOLIKU IMSEJJAH KONVENJENTEMENT ANNULLAMENT?
Joseph Calleja
Nov 13th 2010, 14:57
Finally a bit of common sense is starting to emerge. Good luck committee. At least it's a start.
t. borg
Nov 13th 2010, 14:55
jien ghandi dritt ninfired, ghandi dritt nerga nghix ma' min irrid, ghandi dritt ma nemminx, ghandi dritt immur l-infern imma hadd m'ghandu dritt jghidli m'ghandekx dritt terga tizzewweg.
din hajti u hadd m'ghandu dritt jindahalli. hawn malta kollox propoganda bhal tar-registru meta seghet dahlet biss ligi li min jimpjega lil xi hadd fejn hemm it-tfal irid jipprezenta l-kondotta nadifa. kollox bazwi isir f'dan il-pajjiz. skont ma qieghed jinghad wiehed jiddahhal fir-registru anki jekk biss jitressaq il-qorti. nistaqsi x'jigri jekk xi hadd jitressaq u jigi illiberat u minhabba f'hekk jitlef ix-xoghol? min se jhallsu? malta jirragunaw fqir imma jekk il-kaz imur barra x'jigri? ma naqbilx li d-devorzju jidhol b'referendu. il-qassisin u s-sorijiet se jivvutaw? x'tort ghandi jekk izzewwigt ta' 17 u l-mara sa 20 saret hoxna aktar minn baqra! tghid mhux se nibqgha maghha!
victor pulis
Nov 13th 2010, 17:46
Sur Borg ma nahsibx li d-divorzju jinghata ghall l-ezempju li gibt int. Jekk mill banda l-ohra il hxuna tal mara qed tikkawzalek dannu fiziku(!) hemmhekk forsi jikkunsidrawha bhala mohqrija zejda!!
carmen mallia
Nov 13th 2010, 14:52
Good Luck to this IVA for divorce committee , how can one become a member ?
David Caruana
Nov 13th 2010, 14:52
They should be fighting against a referendum on divorce. A referendum on such matters is unethical.
Let me get this straight, any 80-year-old who will probably kick the bucket in the next 5 to 10 years or any priest or nun who have no clue about married life, will have the right to decide on how I or anyone else would like to lead our conjugal life?!
Typical island mentality where some think they have some holy right to shape the lives of others!
I appreciate the effort, but you should be the "Moviment Le (għar-referndum)". You're simply playing their dirty game, and we all know that if the Yes doesn't win, divorce will be put back on the shelves for many years to come. I can already imagine the vans in front of Tax-Xjuħ with the do-gooders instructing, "Ġanna, 'L'-"E', Le, trid tivvota int, ta! Tinsiex sakemm tidħol, ta, sabiħa, 'L'-"E', Le!"
Democracy my foot!
David Grima
Nov 13th 2010, 14:51
Good luck !! Hope it will be a success.
Ernest Vella
Nov 13th 2010, 14:48
Kieku tghidulna min huma l-membri Parlamentari li huma favur il-ligi tad-divorzju tkun ghal hafna nies facli biex jivvuttaw...ghax ma jdumux jahsbuha...kemm inhallihom barra mill-vot...s'issa ghandna 2 hawn u xi 4 li ga nafu....prosit...dik is-sabih tad-demokrazija...ikollok l-ghazla...u int kemm taghzel...pick and choose polticians...
albert leone ganado
Nov 13th 2010, 14:47
Good luck to the IVA camp. It is interesting to know who will line up and organise the LE camp if there is going to be one. Let us have a referendum as soon a possible to get a clear idea of how our society currently feels about the divorce issue . From the past experience in Ireland and the current state of the local secular movement I feel that we are still at least ten years away from successful radical moves to change the ingrained traditional mentality of the average Maltese and their perceived acceptable Family model. After the referendum result our society planners and institutions will be in a much better position to decide a strategy for the future of the Maltese family and local personal relationship models and legislate accordingly. Our society is currently facing other serious social issues such as financial problems, encroaching poverty, drugs, poor education and job prospects ,care of the elderly issues, and health care issues which should perhaps be the principal focus of our attention more than the divorce issue.
A Tagliaferro
Nov 13th 2010, 14:30
....i'm already imagining mass meetings invoking the breaking up of marriages as a right to the citizen and celebrating the breakage of marriage vows visualised as a sign that we are now like the rest of the world....
Ramon Casha
Nov 13th 2010, 15:09
Wow, been brainwashed at all lately?
C Sultana
Nov 13th 2010, 15:59
You see that is the problem with you anti-divorce people. You think that the whole world is wrong and you are right. Stop fighting for a lost cause, let me get to your level of logic, you're not going to heaven by opposing divorce only I assure you so stop wasting everybody's time including yours. Let's face it, you religious people are afraid of divorce because many people will just skip the marriage vows in the church. At the end of the day the church and "GOD" does not have a say in civil liberties. To bad we're not in the dark ages anymore, right? Same reasoning ... Well my god says its ok to divorce if marriage failed, so who are you to judge MY God and tell me to listen to YOUR god?? Thats absurd.
Andrew Farrugia
Nov 14th 2010, 00:29
@ C Sultana
Some people may be living in the dark ages, but some other people are so illuminated that their brains have been fried to cinders. Hahahahaha.
Dr EMMANUEL BEZZINA,LL.D.
Nov 13th 2010, 13:59
This is a senseless campaign run by some who were vehemently on the opposite side of the coin at a phase of their life,now lushing the other side for their own ends.DIVORCE is an individual right as I have been saying for the past 31 and a half years out of the 34 years I have been practising as a litigious lawyer.Divorce is the corollary of a Marriage that has ceased to be so in all but nomenclature.A Referendum is a waste of public money and an insult to the intelligence of each and every one of us.The people are being treated like fools as if they cannot make up their own minds and take their own decisions.Indeed it is our MPs who are so who have been looking after their own interests in all these years.DIVORCE should be introduced forthwith as it is YEARS OVERDUE in this hypocretical isle which as a prominent Pastor gently put it to me DOES NOT WANT TO MOVE ON.HYPOCRISY IS INTEGRATED IN ALL OF OUR INSTITUTIONS NOW & THOSE WHO DARE SPEAK OUT ARE NICELY PUNISHED!! SHED OFF YOUR LIES,PRETENSIONS & BULLSHIT,& LET US GIVE DIVORCE IMMEDIATELY!
David Caruana
Nov 13th 2010, 15:04
AMEN!
Andrew Farrugia
Nov 13th 2010, 15:20
Temper, temper, Dr Bezzina, some of the language used (you can add the caps, as well) does not become or befit members of the Bar, or erudite citizens! Methinks you are slightly miffed about something!
K. Pullicino
Nov 13th 2010, 18:02
"HYPOCRISY IS INTEGRATED IN ALL OF OUR INSTITUTIONS NOW"
Except Mr. Bezzina obviously.
For a self-proclaimed intellectual and the bearer of several letters after your name, your choice of vocabulary leaves much to be desired. Also, it is common knowledge, that a civilised person should not yell (write in ALL CAPS) when they're sharing our opinions with each other. Pity such basic manners escape someone of your high mental capabilities.
S Azzopardi
Nov 13th 2010, 20:33
Chill out man ... relax :)
Andrew Farrugia
Nov 13th 2010, 13:53
I have heard that JPO stated that political history was being made through this cross-party initiative; delusions of grandeur or what?
B. Cachia
Nov 13th 2010, 17:38
I think it's quite clear to everyone by now that this is not about one person but is something supported by around half the population, cutting across party lines. And incidentally, all those ordinary citizens could not possibly all have 'delusions of grandeur' or even any personal interest in the introduction of divorce legislation.
C Muscat
Nov 13th 2010, 13:46
Very good diversion. I do not know how PL Mp's are part of this ploy. The country has to much to understand from budgets that are a big lie. Never showing what is due and given the wrong impressions.
I agree that it is better to work for stronger family ties and good preparation for marriage. With divorce one out of hundred will be better off in the second chance; the other 99% will be failing in the second and further chances.
Do not continue to deflect the attention of the country from so many problems...airmalta ....deficit ......dejn .... social benefits erosion ..... unemployment .... health sector .... etc etc the result of bad management for many years.
Joseph Scicluna
Nov 13th 2010, 15:41
Bad management my foot. If it wasn't for the PN government we would have finished like the UK...Italy...Greece...Spain...Portugal...etc...etc. Read the Bloomberg Business Report of the 24th. October 2010.
Josef Portelli
Nov 13th 2010, 21:43
Dear Mr Scicluna,
irespective of what bloomberg reported, you simply cannot compare the UK with Greece or Ireland. If you visit Bloomberg's website today you will see that Ireland is being encouraged to do what Greece already did, ask the EU for a bailout as the country has lost the confidence of the financial markets. The UK government can borrow for 10 years at 3.2%, hardly a penal rate.
Malta did not end up in the same situation as Ireland or Spain because the local banks are well funded by deposits owing to the local tradition of frugaliity. That did not stop the some maltese from rushing headlong in into a mania of home construction, and the PN was there cheerleading the speculators with all the resultant over supply that is now piling pressure on property prices.
A. Falzon
Nov 13th 2010, 13:43
K. Pullicino (and others), Hope you are happy in your marriage. Let others decide the future of their lives. Good luck 'IVA' commitee.
Andrew Farrugia
Nov 13th 2010, 13:41
One local English-language rag has commented on this earth-shattering event by referring to "cross-party coalition and CIVIL SOCIETY" (my caps). According to them, civil society (the term unfortunately can mean anything from vandals to pacifists to activists to agent provocateurs) is strongly behind this campaign. Those who are against such a campaign should not be regarded as deserving to form part of civil society. Interesting!
LVella
Nov 13th 2010, 14:31
Are you also against the church voicing it's opinion?
Andrew Farrugia
Nov 13th 2010, 13:27
Just noticed that there is a high profile MP missing from this line-up: Hon Marlene Pullicino. Any guesses as to why?
Ramon Casha
Nov 13th 2010, 15:07
Well, to begin with this is only the committee. There are other members.
Besides, while Marlene Pullicino has recently realised that there is a need to introduce divorce, you can hardly say she's been at the forefront of the divorce matter. She may be a high-profile MP, but she's not a high profile pro-divorce activist.
D Vella
Nov 13th 2010, 15:40
You strike me as being a very sad person.What's with the personal jibes,if you have a valid argument then argue it otherwise stop this and other personal jibes that you come up all the time.
Like it it or not mister,you are blowing the wrong way at the wind.
Andrew Farrugia
Nov 14th 2010, 00:34
@ D Vella
And would it be your business to stop me commenting any way i like? Have you become a share holder of The Times of Malta, or one of its editors or even one of the moderators? So pack it up , i will continue to voice my opinion any whichever way i like. BTW, are you prescient or a quack doctor? How come you can diagnose my frailties over the internet? Astounding!
Andrew Farrugia
Nov 14th 2010, 12:33
@ Mr R Casha
Well, that issue has been sorted out now, hasn't it, thanks to Mons. Bud Moureaux's initiative; the guy seems to hold quite a few keys, doesn't he?
K. Pullicino
Nov 13th 2010, 13:12
I certainly do not agree with the way this whole issue is developing. I sometimes feel like I'm the only one that sees the glaring contradiction in this whole divorce thing but I just cannot understand the reasoning of certain people.
Whether we introduce divorce or not depends on our definition of marriage. So if, as a society, we agree that marriage lasts a lifetime, how can we also agree to implement a divorce law? If we are unable to love each other then I'd rather we remove the marriage law altogether than introduce divorce. It's much better than having to explain, to future generations, the blatant anomaly of having a marriage law followed by a divorce law.
Robert Agius
Nov 13th 2010, 13:31
I am also part of this society, like plenty of others. How dare you speak out for everyone else on your concept of what marriage is and should be. Love has NOTHING to do with marriage. Marriage can be part of love and so can divorce.
Ramon Casha
Nov 13th 2010, 15:03
No sane person thinks that marriage lasts a lifetime. People should marry with the intention of making it last a lifetime, and indeed many succeed. However even a 99.999% success rate (which we don't have by a long shot) wouldn't mean that marriage lasts a lifetime. It would mean that most marriages do. A definition has no exceptions however. A triangle is defined as a shape with three sides, and it always does - no exceptions. Marriage does not last forever.
Joseph Galea
Nov 13th 2010, 15:04
@ Robert Agius: "Love has NOTHING to do with marriage." Are you kidding?
K. Pullicino
Nov 13th 2010, 17:28
No! I'm not telling you to accept my definition of marriage. I'm saying that, if we were to democratically agree that marriage lasts a lifetime, then it would be wrong of us to also have divorce. If, on the other hand, we agree that marriage can terminate at any time, then I'll be the first one to not marry because there would be no point (especially seeing the examples of the supposedly mature population of this country).
Please read my comment well before going about what I should dare and not dare to do. I'm asking you to think with your heads not succumb to some thought because everyone else in the world does it.
Robert Agius
Nov 14th 2010, 10:46
@J Galea - read the following sentence... 'you say love thy neighbors. I say love the one furthest away from you' Nietzsche
@K. Pullicino - you clearly don't know me if you think i am a person who follows what other people do. Are you sure that you are not brainwashed by the church? Marriage COULD last a lifetime but sometimes it does not. Snap back to the real world. Nobody can foresee the future and the troubles it might bring. I say leave the options open for people in the situation to decide not others who more often than not boast about their fortunes and/or lack of experience from their ideological minds.
K. Pullicino
Nov 14th 2010, 19:14
Robert Agius, I do not believe you understand my arguments. You said that you're thinking independently but, like everyone else, you suggest that I am brainwashed by the Church. I make it a point to keep the Church and religion out of all my reasoning because this is, in the end, a decision which will not effect the Church or any religion. It does affect our society though and, it is for this reason, that I base my arguments on the issues relationship with our society.
My arguments still hold because you are still yet to point out a flaw. Let me rephrase my argument, just so you understand me better. Remember, that it is our understanding of marriage that will ultimately decide whether we should introduce divorce or not.
If as a society we decide, through our means (democratically), that marriage is a lifelong commitment then it would be contradictory for us to also allow divorce.
If as a society we decide that it is not possible for us to make all marriages last a lifetime (you, apparently, fall under this group), then it would be better for us to have no marriages at all.
Robert Agius
Nov 14th 2010, 23:01
Well, i would like to point out that you have a small, yet fatal, flaw in your argument. This is a Republic. This is a good thing because it gives minorities (those who have a different opinion on what marriage should be) rights without trampling over the majority. You fail to realize that concepts, such as marriage, were, are and will always be based on interpretation which might be different to that of your own. Nobody is imposing anything on you anyways. It is rather the other way around. And if you can't see the traces of religion in your argument then that is your mistake, not mine. There was never such a thing as OUR understanding of marriage only an illusion of it. That is what gave us 'common folk' voting power to start with.
Fenech MD
Nov 15th 2010, 11:34
Choose your love; love your choice.
Malcolm seychell
Nov 13th 2010, 13:11
Good Luck . Hope it will be a success.
Carmel Serracino-Inglott
Nov 13th 2010, 14:48
Are those who support the IVA ready to pay handouts to divorced persons when it is their fault that their marriage has flopped? Funds for divorced people should come from the pockets of those in favour of divorce. Why should I give money in the form of taxes when I am totally against divorce? Even if the LE group will be in the minority then where are the minority rights ? Remember many of the IVA group say protect the minority so if the IVA group win then they should fork out the expences not those who are against our moral principles. The conditions of JOP will disappear after a few years, as happened else where. SO beware look ahead and do not let EVIL lift its head. I do not wish you well in your campaign.
Philip Hili
Nov 14th 2010, 00:22
@ Carmel Serracino Inglott.
No Mr Serracino Inglott, they are not prepared to fork out expenses from their own pocket. That's why they want to legalise divorce, so that if and when this horrible mistake be committed and the law will be introduced in our legal system, they could turn on the State and claim assistance. Not only that, but once it is introduced in our legal system, they will be at liberty to amend the law according to their likings so that if the proposed law does not suits them, the law will be amended accordingly, in order to claim funds from the state - thus from the taxpayer coffer. The single-mothers example is a case in point.
Philip Hili
Nov 14th 2010, 00:55
@ Malcolm Seychell
Mr. Seychell, how it comes that you or your leader did not protest for being left out of this committee? Always if you are the one who forms part of the Maltese A.N.
Maxine Chetcuti
Nov 13th 2010, 13:08
I think it is more profitable to workon, encourage and promote good marriages and stable families. Be it divorce, annulment, borken marriages, cohabitation, call it what you like, they all have the same negative results on children and society. I encourage this comitee to devout its time, and resources on better profitable causes ie to work for more sound families and marriages.
Ramon Casha
Nov 13th 2010, 15:00
The two are not mutually exclusive. We could both work on strengthening marriages AND provide a solution in those cases where the marriage is beyond "strengthening".
victor pulis
Nov 13th 2010, 17:54
Just like the medical profession. Doctors work to prevent disease but they also develop medicines for those who succumb to illness. Medicine is there for all but only the sick make use of it. So with divorce. By forbidding divorce we are not strengthening marriages just as by prohibitting aspirin one doen't eliminate headaches. Strengthening marriage should be our priority but always keeping in mind that some (to put it mildly) marriages do fail.
Rocco Cauchi
Nov 13th 2010, 13:07
What if the referendum question, if ever will there be one, will be couched in such terms as to require a "no" reply by the IVA members and a "yes" reply by the LE (anti-divorcist) members?
"Double, double toil and trouble; Fire burn, and caldron bubble" -the witches in Macbeth.
M. Pisani
Nov 13th 2010, 13:03
Copycats!! the IVA was used for Malta's entry into the EU!!
Now what? Are we going to benefit from the same advantages by introducing divorce as we have had by EU membership?
You could have at least given yourselves credit by choosing a different slogan!!
Ramon Casha
Nov 13th 2010, 14:59
So you're saying that the word "Iva" can never be used again for any campaign, slogan, or similar initiative?
Lino Mallia
Nov 13th 2010, 16:21
Please list for us the many advantages we have gained so far from our entry in the EU. I don't see that many personally - well except for the cheaper plonk.
A Vella
Nov 13th 2010, 12:55
Glad to hear it. Reason will always win!
Stephen Farrugia
Nov 13th 2010, 12:49
I am shaking my head. The law has to pass through without a 'yes' or 'no' committee or even an election. I am against divorce on a personal basis but it has to be given because religion cannot impose on state law or even have any right to do so. This is a basic understanding of a European nation.
Stephen Farrugia ( Right-wing Social Democrats)
Andrew Farrugia
Nov 13th 2010, 12:43
The sheer irony of these characters in choosing IVA as the name of their campaign; the irony works on various levels of meaning. However, rest assured that, as of now, they have made it amply clear that no public pronouncements of any words, promises, declarations, or vows need to be taken seriously and are thus to be considered as mere prattle. Should open the eyes of those who still believe that such declarations are not made in gay abandon.
Philip Hili
Nov 13th 2010, 12:35
Who formed this committee? Is it an initiative of Dr. Pullicino Orlando or the Government?
Ramon Casha
Nov 13th 2010, 14:58
It is pretty much the initiative of the people on the committee.
Richard Curmi
Nov 13th 2010, 12:31
Great! Now there will be the 'LE" committee.
The crusade phase has been inaugurated. Or is it the LE committee only that will be classified as a crusade?
Joseph Mizzi
Nov 13th 2010, 13:04
Jew il-Filippini fil-Mediterran committee ...
Philip Hili
Nov 14th 2010, 00:41
@ Richard Curmi
No Mr. Curmi, in my opinion there should not be a "LE" committee because the "le" movement already exists. It began to exist as of the date when one gets married - "till death duo us part". In my opinion it will be a mistake to organise a "LE" committee to struggle a principle which existed ages ago.
E. Azzopardi
Nov 13th 2010, 12:30
I am all for divorce but I ( and am not alone in this) TOTALLY disagree with this campaign.
I was under the impression that the "people" were going to be let free and make their OWN decision and not be influenced. Very bad indeed.
LET THE "PEOPLE" DECIDE, BUT FREELY.
K.Anastasi
Nov 13th 2010, 12:48
I agree in principle, but this will never happen here in Malta because of church meddling.
S. Zahra
Nov 13th 2010, 13:01
totally agree
LVella
Nov 13th 2010, 13:05
This committee is simply balancing things out with the church..just like the clergy has the right to talk against divorce and instil fear through mentioning hell and punishment, so do the people who are unfazed by such moralistic arguments and recognize that they are irrelevant to the state.
Matthew Grima
Nov 15th 2010, 13:07
I for one am hoping for an information committee and not a marketing committee. If it is the former then well done, if not then I fully agree with your point.
GiovDeMartino
Nov 13th 2010, 12:24
marriages have failed will be given not another chance, but as many chances as they want. With so many young beauties, marvellously un/dressed roaming our streets.....who would dare vote NO.
Marius Zulgis
Nov 13th 2010, 12:30
...and your point is?
patrick zammit
Nov 13th 2010, 12:53
Can these "young beauties" be savoured only if divorce is introduced?
A.Gauci Cunningham
Nov 13th 2010, 13:12
Giov De Martino---Your reasoning is totally flawed and yet perfectly understandable since its coming from a guy who thinks that the world is the Mosta PN club. But strippers apart, what exactly is your argument here? Are you saying that we should not allow divorce to be introduced because of a couple of beauties?? If marriage is as strong as we say it is then divorce or no divorce those whose marriage is going strong will continue going strong. Divorce is a just legal framework opening the door for those whose marriage has fallen apart for reasons many a times not under anyone's control. You might be jolly and happy Mr.De Martino, you might be lazying around in retirement bliss but unfortunately not everyone is like you and the state has to see to that.
Enzo Caruana
Nov 13th 2010, 13:21
....and dancing half naked around poles at the Mosta PN club?
Philip Hili
Nov 13th 2010, 13:21
Mr.De Giovanni,
I think the best thing is to ignor this subject. Do not give it importance by commenting on it because you will be promoting it.
Alla fine, kullhadd jaf x'hinu t-tajjeb u l-hazin. Hemm bzonn li l-poplu ikun jaf min huma dawk id-deputati li jaqblu fuq dan is-suggett, halli meta jasal zmien il-kontijiet, il-poplu Malti jkun jista' jaghmel il-PAGAMENTI!!!!!!!
Muscat Pat
Nov 13th 2010, 13:53
Comments of a very refined mind!
victor pulis
Nov 13th 2010, 14:08
If divorce is resorted to that means that the first marriage has failed. Are you against marriage outright?
And Mr. Demartino young beauties are not the only cause for marriage breakups.
m grech
Nov 13th 2010, 15:39
Young beauties get old too just as those before them did, and anyway the true beauty of a human being comes from the inside, when this turns ugly maybe divorce could be considered. Beauty lies in the eyes of the beholder!!!!! Happy weekend all !!! Beautiful as you all are!!!!
J. Schembri
Nov 13th 2010, 12:21
Is this IVA a conditional IVA like the "IVA rrid" when we will give our marriage vows when divorce is introduced?
Matthew Azzopardi
Nov 13th 2010, 12:33
I think, before the Maltese government should introduce divorce in Malta he should ask to the Finnish government about the recent studies that were done in order to study the consequences of divorce here in Finland. I think he will surely think about it twice to introduce it, because it has resulted to be a great failure when it comes to society's health and economic failure that is draining out all the social resources. Just to say this year Finland had a record of divorce cases. Just to put on some non religious issues for those who are allergic to the Church.
Mark A. Sammut
Nov 13th 2010, 12:58
Mr Azzopardi
Thank you for this comment.
Please tell us more about the Finnish experience. This is highly interesting.
Edric Micallef Figallo
Nov 13th 2010, 13:22
@Matthew Azzopardi.
Exactly Mr. Azzopardi, but one starts to lose faith in the intellectual honesty of many "open-minded" people. One could heed the words of recently expressed by British Minister Iain Duncan Smith (http://www.il-gensillum.com/news.asp?newscat=11&news=2494) or by senior British judge Sir Paul Coleridge (http://www.di-ve.com/Default.aspx?ID=47&Action=1&NewsId=72587). One can also refer studies by the Italian Caritas on the socio-economic effects of family breakdown and/or divorce (http://www.tempi.it/il-caso/0010050-divorziati-e-separati-sono-poveri-da-anni-ma-i-giornali-lo-tengono-nascosto). And yes, divorce affects us all in many ways.
Sadly, some are blind to the social disasters divorce and the mentality that sustains it and leads to it will provide. Issa ningidmu, imbagħad ngħidu ajma. Grazzi Jeffrey. Obviously some fellows who don't have the decency to stick to the "identità, valuri u prinċipji" they should represent will hear no reason. "Responsible divorce" and "strengthening of the family", sure. Obviously, not all divorcing couples will be rich and successful professionals who can sustain themselves. Some, if not many, will end up in dire straits, and in that case the social assistance provided by all taxpayers will have to make good, and our public finances further strained. Some will be taxed to fund others indulging in something they consider immoral and also contrary to the common good. Ethical.
Matt Bonanno
Nov 13th 2010, 14:13
Do you have any other solutions to the problems of marital breakdown Edric? Aside from the "marriage is forever" routine.
victor pulis
Nov 13th 2010, 14:13
@Matthew Azzopardi(1 hour, 26 minutes ago)
Can you tell us how many healthy marriages were affected by divorce in Finland? Who is crazy enough to seek divorce if one's marriage is sound and strong?
If anything, divorce reveals the state of marriages in the country concerned and does nothing to destroy marriages.
Charles Flores
Nov 13th 2010, 12:18
Good luck. It will be a tough campaign, but Malta deserves your sense of initiative and cross-party strength. The same force of purpose needs to be shown within the whole Maltese Media.
Andrew Farrugia
Nov 13th 2010, 13:00
" The same force of purpose needs to be shown within the whole Maltese Media" ......
..... as in gagging, or otherwise censoring the views of those who are against?
K.anastasi
Nov 13th 2010, 12:18
Great lets get the campaign moving... its about time!
Please choose the reason of your report below: