Sexual abuse allegations founded, church tells victims

Pule' Carmel

Oct 31st 2010, 22:25

Diversity in resisting shame! ( warning , this is a joke to cheer us up!) The son of a very very rich Sheik was in England following a university course. One day the rich father received an SMS from his son saying, “ Father I am ashamed to go to University in my Golden Ferrari trimmed with diamonds, when all the clerks, students, lecturers and professors use a train!” The proud father quickly responded, “ Son, NEVER SHAME nor HUMILIATE our family, I am sending you one hundred million English pounds, go and buy yourself a train!”

Arthur Grech

Oct 31st 2010, 14:32

@Dr Saliba
I am not anyone to judge the motives behind individual comments, but as you surely know, the Church as a whole is complicit in these horrendous acts of child abuse because it has tried its utmost to keep the matter under wraps and protect the alledged perpetrators for as long as it could. That is why it deserves to be criticised and even prosecuted as a whole. I am sure you will agree with me that aiding and abetting child abuse is just asa serious crime as the abuse itself.

Dr Francis Saliba

Oct 31st 2010, 17:51

@ArthurGrech

I hope that this is the last time I have to repeat that I do NOT "SURELY KNOW" and that I do not agree at all with you, and those others, who allege that "the Church as a whole is complicit in these horrendous acts of child abuse". Had this been the case the Church Response Tean would not have advised victims or their guardians to lodge a report with the Police. Please do not take any liberties to distort my comments. I never said anything to justify your certainty that in my opinion the Church aided and abetted child abuse. I never said anything like that. The Church attacked the problem according to the limited means at its disposal and in addition, it advised complainants to lodge a report themselves with the police. This is particularly relevant now that the victims admit that their aim was a secular sentence of imprisonment.

Emanuel Farrugia

Oct 31st 2010, 09:20

Dr Francis Saliba

Grazzi mill-qalb tal-kumment min-naha tieghek. Jien nikteb dak li nhoss minghajr ebda kantunieri, ghax fejn hu abjad abjad u fejn hu iswed iswed. Qieghed ninduna li f' Malta hawn hafna nies oqbra mbajda basta juru kemm huma nsara. Grazzi ghal darb'ohra.

Emanuel Farrugia former Executive Secretary Mtarfa Local Council

Arthur Grech

Oct 31st 2010, 01:58

Dr. Saliba, sexual abuse of minors is indeed most horrendous and abominable in all its forms and wherever it occurs. However, the moral crime is orders of magnitude worse when the child abuser is someone who has been entrusted with the child's care (e.g. a teacher). When this person is also one who 1) claims to be a minister chosen by God, 2) is outwardly preaching piety, chastity and sexual restraint and 3) relies on the power of the Catholic Church to cover up his ongoing child abuse over a period of years or even decades, I say you can't get any much lower than that.

Open your eyes and see the irony of a 'holy' priest abusing an innocent child, Dr. Saliba. Just like police and judges, priests hold a special position in society, and that is precisely why society holds priests especially accountable for their actions.

M. Fenech

Oct 29th 2010, 23:34

Ghandek kull dritt tikkundanna lil min ghamel dawn il-hnizrijiet, pero m'ghandek l'ebda dritt titfa lil qassisin kollha f'keffa wahda! Barra minn hekk min zammm dawn l'affarijiet mistura u pprova jahbi l-fatti, huwa komplici daqs minn ghamel dawn il-hnizrijiet!

Emanuel Farrugia

Oct 30th 2010, 00:24

Sur Fenech tajjeb li tkun taf illi jien ghaddejt hafna minn hajti mas-sacerdoti u naf sew x'qieghed nghid, iva nies ipokriti u nerga nghid ipokriti. Kulhadd jilghaba tal-qaddies u min wara juru kemm huma IPOKRITI habib. Dan ghaddejt minnhu x' ftit tax-xhur ilu.

Emanuel Farrugia former Executive Secretary Mtarfa Local Council

Emanuel Farrugia

Oct 30th 2010, 00:48

Sur Fenech jien ghandi kull dritt nahseb li rrid fuq is-sacerdoti, bhal ma' huma minn gol Knisja ghandkom id-dritta li jaghjru lic-cittadini bhal ma' ghamlu fis-sittinijiet. Jew fejn irridu kulhadd jinsa. Iva nerga nghid dawn nies ipokriti.

Emanuel Farrugia former Executive Secretary Mtarfa Local Council

Franco Farrugia

Oct 30th 2010, 08:36

Min hu kontra l-Knisja m'ghandux jiehu din l-opportunita' biex iktar jitghajjar u juri kemm hu bravu u kemm hu 'l fuq minn haddiehor. Jien l-ewwel wiehed dejjem ktibt b'mod kritiku fir-rigward tal-Knisja, imma b'mod kostruttiv. Int qed tghajjar lill-qassisin kollha. Tiggeneralizzax ghax qed tizbalja sew!

Emanuel Farrugia

Oct 30th 2010, 12:54

Sur Franco minn ikun imwegga hu jhossu l-ugieh u l-ebda Kristjan habib. Naf x'qieghed nghid.


Emanuel Farrugia former Executive Secretary Mtarfa Local Council

ray sacco

Oct 30th 2010, 14:17

@franco farrugia:
it is the catholic church itself who is generalising all it's clergy members. if the church points out and name the rotten perverts within it instead of protecting them, the decent clergy members would have the chance to regain the respect of the general public.

Chris Saliba

Oct 31st 2010, 19:41

Sur Farrugia naqbel perfettament ma kull kumment li ghamilt ghax jien bhalek nahsiba fejn iswed iswed u fejn hu abjad abjad imma m'hemmx ghalfejn kull kumment li tikteb tghidilna li inti former executive secretary mtarfa local council ghax issa nafu.. Prosit habib

M. Fenech

Oct 31st 2010, 23:04

Jekk tinsab daqs hekk frustrat u ddisprat b'xi haga tal-imghoddi, nahseb taf bizzejjed li l-ligi taghtik l'ghodda mehtiega biex issir gustizzja! Jew anke il-gustizzja mimlija bl'IPOKRITI? Ahseb dak li trid u jogghbok, pero m'inti tikkonvinci lil hadd bil-kummenti tieghek, specjalment ghal mod kif tikkonkludi l-kummenti tieghek. Jekk qed tahseb li jien xi fundamentalist religjuz, sejjer hafna zball. Pero jdejquni n-nies li jhaltu l-hass mal-kabocci, bhalek!

Bob Gauci

Oct 29th 2010, 19:23

jekk taf taqra bl-Ingliz hemm miktub fl-artiklu li dawn hemm proceduri kontra taghhom fil-qorti.

Malajr gejt tikteb, ahjar tinforma ruhhek qabel.

Empty vessels make most sound.

Joseph Calleja

Oct 29th 2010, 19:32

Ghax hemm articlu 2 li jipprotegi il-kleru.

Joseph Carmel Chetcuti

Oct 29th 2010, 21:12

Ghaziz Bob, Dawn ilhom snin quddiem il-qorti. Il-kaz ta' Chris Said kien lest fi ftit gimghat jekk mhux ftit jiem. Il-knisja u l-istat ta' Malta huma komplici f'dan id-dawmien.

s.grima

Oct 29th 2010, 22:28

sihbi int qat rajt xi qasis jew xi membru tal kleru dihel il habs hafna paroli u f l ahar min l ahar min kiser il ligi u min hasar il hajit ta dawk l imsiken baqaw bara u baqaw jiksru il ligi!!!!!

Robert Agius

Oct 30th 2010, 09:53

@ bob

int bis serjeta??????

'Eight men claim to have been abused by members of the clergy while living at the home in the 1980s and 1990s'. I repeat 80's and 90's. Criminal case. It's 2010, and these scum are still roaming...

Joseph Calleja

Oct 29th 2010, 18:38

The answer to your three questions is because the church accepted the responsibly to take care of orphans. I remember visiting the House at Hamrun very often and I used to feel so sorry for those kids. In those days the state was not responsible for anything in addition the church was, how can I say this. " The church ruled ".

Bob Gauci

Oct 29th 2010, 19:26

It takes 5 social workers to do the job of 1 nun/priest! Who else spends 7 days a week, 24 hours a day looking after children. Remember the 100s of children who ended up orphans after the war, immigration and so on. The state cannot do it alone, the Church will always come in to help those in need, no mater what certain bloggers say.

Raymond Bezzina

Oct 29th 2010, 20:09

@ Joseph Calleja The above article is about the abuse, which it claims happened in the 1980s and 1990s. If those days which you are referring to are the 1980s and 1990s, I believe that those children ended up in a Church institution, because the state omitted its duty towards its own citizens, especially towards minors. The everyday welfare of people in need is supposed to be the responsibility of the state, and not of the Catholic Church.

Joseph Carmel Chetcuti

Oct 29th 2010, 21:17

Raymond, you have asked the right questions. The point is that many religious who claim to have a vocation to work with children do have a well-founded interest in children which interest more often than not includes a sexual dimension.

Raymond Bezzina

Oct 29th 2010, 23:49

@ Joseph Carmel Chetcuti.

Not to be misunderstood, I will repeat that ; without trying to excuse any wrongdoing
by anyone, hereunder I ask :

Out of all the peoples' comments about this issue, why no one dared criticise parents
who neglect and abondon their own child, and due to this neglect, children end up in
institutions ?

Why don't the civil authorities take proper action against parents who neglect their own
child, when we all know the trauma which children pass through because of such
indifference by their own parents ?

Charles Callus

Oct 30th 2010, 07:55

Mr Bezzina; your comment is irrelevant. You are trying to excuse this disgusting behaviour by lumping the blame on the parents.

Joseph Carmel Chetcuti

Oct 30th 2010, 08:20

Raymond, people other than priests are guilty of child abuse but it is the Vatican that claims to be a sovereign state and has immunity. It is also the Vatican that attempts to have the Canon Law override local law. The Church also imposes pontifical silence on investigations and anyone who breaks this silence including victims is excommunicated. It is also priests who take the high moral ground and play a game of religion that makes children emotionally and spiritually dependent on priests. So the Church is and should be treated differently precisely because it says that it is different. Until such time as the pope makes it obligatory that child abuse should be reported to the civil authorities, no one will take the Church seriously.

GiovDeMartino@P Scicluna

Oct 29th 2010, 17:50

Anqas sentenza semplici ma tifhem Sur Scicluna? Jien MA TFAJT EBDA GEBLA, anzi.

Joseph Carmel Chetcuti

Oct 29th 2010, 21:18

What do you want? More cover-ups?

J Farrugia

Oct 29th 2010, 16:55

dopnt exagerate. L-inqas dawk li qatlu zghazagh bid-drogi ma marru ghomorhom il-habs ahseb u ara nies morda minn mohhom. Kemm irridu nattakkawa l-knisja fejn jaqbel lilna. kollha cassi dawn li jridu l-ahhar pinta demm ta' dawn il-midimbin ghax huma mhumiex midinbin daqshom. Isthu. Mur arakom titfghu il-gebel bhalma jaghmlu l-Iran.

Hubert Paul Farrugia

Oct 29th 2010, 17:08

@ J Farrugia... are you serious? Pedophilia ruins a person's life for life and has very negative effects on their work, school performance and relationships... Thank God you were never a victim of it. I don't agree with some exaggerated comments but yes, I suppose it should be taken as seriously as those who kill others with drugs because it ruins a person's chance of living a decent life permanently. As cases in other countries have shown, others ended up committing suicide too. Isn't that murder?

m.portelli

Oct 29th 2010, 19:45

J. Farrugia, don't defend the indefensible, it was a question of choice for the priests in question, they could have refrained from taking callous advantage of those minors trusted in their care. Criminal action is a matter of choice, paedophilia is a crime don't trivialise it. Are you suggesting that paedophilia is simply an acceptable sexual orientation? You should be rejoicing in the fact that the local church authorities have finally had the courage to act upon what the Pope has been saying since his address to the Australians and later on to the Irish that non action regarding sex abuse by the clergy is "a misplaced concern for the reputation of the Church and the avoidance of scandal". How Catholic is it to be concerned with the redemption of the perpetrator at the expense of that of the victim? There is more than one way to embrace the Church and Omerta is not one of them.

F J Brincat

Oct 30th 2010, 08:02

J Farrugia. Correct me if I am wrong but weren't you the good christian that in an other article about the possibility of divorce you were foaming at the mouth saying something like "anke bi divorzju pogguti konto u pogguti tkunu"?

You have the gall to come here to warn others about casting stones when you are so quick to judge and label others yourself? You canting hyporcrite! My spit is worth more than you are.

ray sacco

Oct 31st 2010, 08:53

@j.farrugia:
you know what i find exaggerated mr.farrugia? that in front of crystal clear facts, one still finds some gullible, naive, brain washed fanatics who keep bringing up excuses for these presumed monsters and the way the catholic church protected them! very pathetic!

David Buttigieg

Oct 29th 2010, 16:53

Read - PLEASE READ before you speak!

Joseph Calleja

Oct 29th 2010, 18:20

Mr Buttigieg please enlighten me a bit, but unless you are one of the eight abused kids don't bother. I think that the fact the church tried to keep everything hidden from the public eye is the worst offense. Only peer pressure brought all this out. For once admit the church was wrong and stop making excuses. The church itself is admitting that. It takes courage and stamina to admit guilt and the church finally did. Like I always said, these men and their family need closure and I think maybe that time has arrived. Mr Buttigieg maybe you need to do some reading yourself.

David Buttigieg

Oct 29th 2010, 22:04

Mr Calleja

You see why you need to read before speaking/writing!

". For once admit the church was wrong and stop making excuses."

I couldn't care less about these or any priest guilty of child abuse, and quite frankly as an atheist I don't care about the church either.

The point is that this well known case has been before the courts since day one and it was NOT peer pressure that caused the police to take action. They are not suddenly being prosecuted, but have been for a long time, much to long incidentally but that's Maltese law for you!

However the priests must also face the ecclesiastical music, as it were, too as they are priests.

Understood?

Miguel Micallef

Oct 29th 2010, 16:24

If they get caught they get sent to the vatican and they receive a black star on their behaviour sheet. Oh, the horror. Then they get sent to some forgotten island in the pacific to work with children there.

David Buttigieg

Oct 29th 2010, 16:51

Miguel Micallef and J Camilleri,

Before the hysterics learn how to read!

David Buttigieg

Oct 29th 2010, 16:50

If you lived in Malta you would know that already happened charlie

Joseph Carmel Chetcuti

Oct 29th 2010, 21:28

That happens in the US and Australia because local law takes precedence over Canon law. In Australia, such trials are finalised speedily and Courts take a dim view of any application to adjourn the matter. Such matters in Australia are usually finalised by the courts within 18 months. There is also a duty on the courts to finalise such matters speedily. Public interest as seen in Malta encompasses protection of the Catholic Church.

A Cardona

Oct 29th 2010, 16:15

Criminals should be jailed.....not pedophiles.These need to be controlled in another and only way..... exactly how cockroaches are controlled.

R.Borg

Oct 29th 2010, 16:08

@David Buttigieg@Malvin Debono
The first time this story was online, it had sentences numbers two and four missing so that is why I posted that comment. Then after a few moments, the story appeared as it looks now. I think that the Editor or moderator can confirm this.

Joseph Calleja

Oct 29th 2010, 16:42

Mr Buttigieg the only reason this came to the surface is because of public pressure. These men have been waiting for 7 years since they filed the complaint with the courts and now all of a sudden these pedophiles are being prosecuted? I can't remember who ( well I do ) but someone had said that priests are not subject to prosecutions in Malta, something having to do with article 2? To put it bluntly, Mr Buttigieg, I think the church got caught with its' pants down and there is no other way out. Enough said. PS. The fact that William Flynn and R Borg reside outside Malta has nothing to do with the verdict. I think that fact was established yesterday.

David Buttigieg

Oct 29th 2010, 16:48

Yes but this is a very well known case in Malta and everyone knows that they are undergoing criminal proceedings.

David Buttigieg

Oct 29th 2010, 16:59

Joseph Calleja, Wake up and smell the coffee and learn some English whilst you are at it! The priests in question are not "suddenly" being prosecuted as you should know! Unfortunately yes, in Malta court cases tend to take a long time. "I can't remember who ( well I do ) but someone had said that priests are not subject to prosecutions in Malta, something having to do with article 2?" Cow droppings - try not to believe fairy tales so easily. "The fact that William Flynn and R Borg reside outside Malta has nothing to do with the verdict. I think that fact was established yesterday." P.S. I haven't got a clue where they live, I was being sarcastic because like you they don't know well known facts on a very well known case!

A. Zahra

Oct 29th 2010, 16:04

The abusers were/ are priests that is why the Vatican has jurisdiction. In malta there is separation between church and state. it is only the church which can defrock priests. If the abused have reported thier being abused to the police, the police will investigate and take action in the criminal court. Do drop your blinkers, you will see things more clearly.

wally vella-zarb

Oct 29th 2010, 16:22

@ A Zahra

If you really believe that "In malta there is separation between church and state" I suggest that it is you who are wearing blinkers - and wearing them tightly shut at that.

Bob Gauci

Oct 29th 2010, 19:29

The courts in Malta will send them to jail according to the law.
The Vatican will defrock them.

Anything else would be extra and out of mind.

Joe Cordina

Oct 29th 2010, 16:01

@ R Borg. They have already been charged in court by the police seven years ago. The case for the prosecution was concluded within a few months, all these years have been taken up by others