Norman E. Grech, Iklin
The Maltese cross
The emblem of the Armed Forces of Malta gives prominence to a medal given by a foreign king about 65 years ago! Is this the best we can do?
Couldn’t we find something better, like the Maltese cross?
What a shame!
Advert
Popular Stories
In Discussion
Advert
116 Comments
Post comment
Please sign in or create your Account to post comments.
Norman E Grech
Sep 6th 2010, 15:13
Thank you Jesmond!!! Yes it does! I try my best to rid most people of apathy and to think deep about certain issues... Nothing is personal here!!! Everyone airs his/her views... :-)))
@J C Grech.... People like you tire me!!! How dare you comment without even reading what I wrote? Or are you ignoring what I said on purpose? The Knights of Saint John represented Europe in its effort to fight off the muslims!!! george coss refers to george... one person and we didn't need him to tell us Maltese we're brave!!!
I mean seriously, let us debate by all means but please do read what other people are saying first! Hopefully it is not a case where you do read, and ignore, or worse still dont have the ability to understand what you are reading!!! So please, do everyone a big favour and do not compare the Maltese cross (read it again... the Maltese cross) to george cross (read it again... george cross)
J.C.Grech
Sep 6th 2010, 23:46
1. You get tired of debating too easily i suppose....
2. You were wrong on the first place. The AFM emblem represents the De Redin Tower.
3. Yes, I dare comment you, why shouldn't I? I read what you wrote and I totally understood you. Can I not agree with you?
3. Lots of families, including mine, suffered death during WW2 and that is certain, but I beleive (and you have every right to be contrary) that every Maltese citizen should cherish the GC as a symbol of our forefathers' sacrifices and hardships. Looks like you have a completely different perspective.
4. I read what you wrote, but I still beleive that the eight-pointed Maltese Cross represents a foreign despot/monarch in the same level as the GC. Yes, the GC was personally awarded and sent by King George VI in person, but the knights' Grand Masters were sole rulers of Malta as much as King George VI. So to add consistency to your argument, neither the GC nor the Maltese Cross have their place in the Maltese flag......and I don't agree with that.
James Davis
Sep 6th 2010, 14:54
My comment is addressed at all those who like myself are proud of the George Cross on our flag and are cognizant and appreciative of the sacrifices made by Maltese and Allied men and women against the evil tyranny of fascist Italy and nazi Germany.
Let all those who want to remove the GC keep ranting on between themselves; after all everyone is entitled to their opinion. As for yourselves simply do like I do - include the letters 'GC' after the word 'Malta' on envelopes etc, to show your pride and admiration.
JAFarrugia
Sep 6th 2010, 13:00
Blah Blah Blah,
Both crosses are here to stay get used to it.
Flynn and Grech written diahorea at its best.
Mark-Anthony Fenech
Sep 6th 2010, 12:12
Fool... The George Cross was well earned. The so called Maltese cross belonged to the despotic Knights of St John; none of the points refer to our country.. And even the red and white was bequeathed to us by a foreign king according to legend.. Why flog a dead horse?
Jesmond Micallef
Sep 6th 2010, 03:09
How interesting. It only takes just a couple of well designed direct lines of grammar in order to see how the public responds.
J.C.Grech
Sep 5th 2010, 23:54
Spot on James A. Tyrell.
@ Norman E. Grech "Could we find something better, like the Maltese Cross?"
Please note that the so called "Maltese Cross" represents the Order of St. John (a FOREIGN entity), and has nothing Maltese in it. You contradict yourself so much!!
At least the George Cross is a sign of gratitude to my beloved 'nanniet' fought and suffered hunger and death during WW2.
"To honour her brave people I award the George Cross to the Island Fortress of Malta: to bear witness to a heroism and devotion that will long be famous in History".
King George VI
http://www.killifish.f9.co.uk/Malta%20WWII/Index.htm
Norman E Grech
Sep 6th 2010, 15:25
@ J C Grech..... Let me tell you what is spot on my fellow Maltese compatriot!!! Spot on was the bomb that hit my father's home in Gozo during the war when he was only 12!!! Killing his mother, 2 sisters and a brother (my nanna and aunts and uncle) and injuring his other 2 sisters and himself!!!! Why? because we were a military base (or according to churchill, the undestructable aircraft carrier in the Mediterranean) For the umpteenth time, I am totally against Nazism and Fascism but I am also against colonialism where the colonised people were exploited to the full!!! I dont care about the merits or demerits of this piece of medal!!! What insults me is that it is on our flag and the way it was put there. I have NEVER and will NEVER wave the version of the Maltese flag with the taint on it. Our flag should NOT have anything bearing the name of a past foreign person!!!!
Willyam P Flynn
Sep 5th 2010, 22:58
@MrSpencer
Historically the rapacious British blamed others for British piracy and monumental mistakes.
Read "The Great Shame" by Thomas.Keneally or visit the Dublin monument to the hundreds of thousands of Irish children who died in the Great Famine as mindless/blundering/cruel British absent-farmers got rich on exported Irish grain.
The GC defacemant of our Flag was a British-man's dirty blunder.
Get an education Mr.Spencer.
Mr.Vella
My parents didn't suffer for the British or to earn a medal. They fought and suffered for Malta and survival. A British medal and defacing our Flag with it were the last things on the minds of all Maltese.
The foreigners fought for their own and Britain’s glory; Malta was regarded by Britain’s as just another expendable weapon and war asset to deploy against the enemy.
There was one war but different motivations.
The Maltese looked up to the White and Red. The Maltese war dead heroes never knew the GC Flag, wouldn’t recognize it and would be disappointed and insulted by it.
Their flag was the White and Red.
Mr Vella you surely ran out of anything sensible to say if you compare one's manhood to a piece of foreign graffiti on one's national flag.
W Spencer
Sep 6th 2010, 19:01
If getting an education means that I will turn out to be a biggoted know all like you, then I will remain uneducated !!
Unlike you, I prefer to have personal experience of what I express my opinions on, rather from reading books, like you. Any fool can quote from a book !!
George Vella
Sep 5th 2010, 16:11
The George Cross is a well-earned honour by our forefathers, when like in the past the white and red flag was earned by our medieval forefathers with the help of Count Roger.
...then remove the George Cross from the flag and it will be as the Maltese say " cutting the test..... to displease your wife"!
Please shelve this line of thinking.
Norman E Grech
Sep 5th 2010, 23:05
@George Vella.... Shelve it? NEVER!!!
Count Roger's Red and white flag is called the Maltese flag... We did not have a flag before!!! The george cross (a cross in the very sense of the word) as the name implies refers to George... a past foreign king!! Why is is so difficult for some people to see the clear and irritating distinction?
We go about the world waving a flag with a cross on it refering to a past foreign king!!! Why?????? This cross, whether we should consider its value or not, belongs in the museum, like the rest of the thousands of items we have there... BUT NEVER... EVER SHOULD IT BE ON OUR FLAG... THE MALTESE FLAG!!!
Joseph Micallef
Sep 6th 2010, 08:49
@Mr. Grech, quoting "Count Roger's Red and white flag is called the Maltese flag.." - Are you still living in fairytale land? It has been established quite long ago that Count Roger had nothing to do with the Maltese flag. Even kids at school know that.
William P Flynn
Sep 5th 2010, 14:00
James.A.Tyrell
How many innocents would have died in Ulster if the British had left Ireland completely in 1927 instead of the festering blunder of separating the North?
The centuries of tyranny, infanticide and genocide in Ireland and the rapacious excesses, idiotic policies and blunders of the British still shame and trouble humanity, half a century after the welcome and celebrated demise of their racist empire.
As to the war effort, I saw a documentary showing Churchill's jaw drop to his lap, when President FD Roosevelt told Churchill that, no, the defeat of the AXIS didn’t mean Britain was going back to its bad old colonial days; which is what Churchill was angling for.
The USA made it clear Britain had to let its colonies go and thus world freedom owes a great debt to the USA; which as an ally unravelled and destroyed the racist British empire quicker than Hitler ever could.
Your improper comments about our National Flag and your anachronistic attitude are reminiscent of the vulgarity, ignorance and oppression of colonialism.
Norman E Grech
Sep 5th 2010, 15:15
@ William P Flynn... Well said my compatriot!!! You do know the historical facts and when these are brought to light, it brings shame on the Brits!! And I could add more... the common wealth!!! What's this but another feeble attempt to try and hold on to a shameful past!
It is a pity that we have to discuss such facts, but we seem to be constrained to do so as respondents insist on going off subject! The subject matter is OUR FLAG! And I might add that were the French, Italian or any other country to have occupied a military base in those days, and gave us some medal, only to deface OUR FLAG with it, I would have said the some thing: 'We are pround of OUR MALTESE FLAG and wish remove all taints, marks or signs which bear the name of a foreign past oppressor!!!
W Spencer
Sep 5th 2010, 15:46
The Maltese / Gozitans blame foreigners for all their failings, the Irish blame the British for all their self inflicted troubles. Does anyone ever take responsibility for their fmistakes, faults, and failings ??
Your rhetoric, as always, sounds just like the boring, monotonous nonsense the communist regimes used to pump out.
Alex Ciantar
Sep 5th 2010, 20:12
@ James.A.Tyrell so very well said :-)
Alex Ciantar
Sep 5th 2010, 23:33
Copied and pasted the wrong name..... it should of read..... William P Flynn
Eric Soames
Sep 5th 2010, 11:55
Many people earn or are awarded degrees and honours from other nations, are they not to sport them as such since they are not of Maltese origin?
norman E: calling the Romans Italians would not have been done in the period you mention, for many reasons. But this would be a subject for another discussion.
Norman E Grech
Sep 5th 2010, 15:56
@ Eric Soames... Yeah I know what you're on about. A lot of other nationalities had become 'ROMANS' too but they fell under thr ROMAN empire... Let me see if I have my facts right now: Romans as in Citizens of ROMA!!! Surely not Jamaican or Russian or Chinese and definitely not English or Anglo-Saxons or barbarians as they were referred to in those days!!! You see, I, and many others have become immune to British propaganda!!!
William P Flynn
Sep 5th 2010, 11:14
James.A.Tyrrel
You know fanny-adams about the Malta WWII siege. The British couldn't protect Malta; Maltese Rock protected them.
Operation Pedestal, then the greatest armada ever, didn’t get within 240 nautical miles of Malta.
A few Italian battleships plus the Luftwaffe annihilated Operation Pedestal; giving Britain its worst naval defeat ever.
If the greatest British armada couldn't get anywhere near Malta, how could the Brits have saved us from a full-on invasion? The main reason Malta wasn't invaded was because our rock isn't the easiest Island to land on.
Britain was ready to give Malta to appease Mussolini without regard to the fate of the Maltese. So the reason we don't have the " Nazi Iron Cross" instead of the GC, or not ending up in ovens/mass graves was, also, no thanks to the British.
How dare you insult the Maltese effort during the war suggesting the Maltese might have resorted to throwing rocks at the Nazis, when every British gun, bullet down to every sausage would have been impossible without the USA..
Britain rescue Malta?! Rubbish! Britain was crucified begging the USA to rescue it.
Our war heroes knew one Flag; it was White and Red; no GC included then.
James A. Tyrrell
Sep 5th 2010, 04:27
@Alex Ciantar. Quote, 'we stood our ground and won over the Nazi's with only a little help if any at all from the British.' I'm sure your parents or grandparents may disagree with that remark Alex. How exactly would you have won over the Nazi's Alex without outside help? Would you have thrown rocks at them?
Stop living in the past and thank yourself lucky that you only have English as a second language instead of German as a first language and that you don't have a few ovens and mass graves as tourist attractions.
James A. Tyrrell
Sep 5th 2010, 04:03
@Am Camilleri. As an ex member of the RUC perhaps I can answer that for you. Over 300 RUC personnel were murdered and over 9000 were injured during the course of the troubles in N. Ireland. They and their families lived every single day of their lives in the knowledge that they could be killed that day. They never saw it coming because the cowardly republican scum only knew how to back shoot or bomb.
The saddest thing I ever saw was an RUC officer sitting in his car outside his home with his 14-year-old daughter sitting beside him. She had her head on his shoulder and they looked as if they were asleep. At least they looked that way until you looked down and realised that they were sitting in their own innards because everything from the waist down had been blown away.
For their part the RUC accepted the George Cross on behalf of every innocent person in N. Ireland who suffered through the troubles, but they knew it was awarded as a booby prize to sweeten their disbandment to please the republican scum.
Now we have the PSNI, who are useless!
Am Camilleri
Sep 5th 2010, 09:13
Thank you for revealing your true colours Mr Tyrell. Every single family lived every day in the knowledge they could be killed, and horrific things happened to them. It was the medical and fire services that had to clear up the mess - I think they should have been included in the award don't you? Or perhaps you disagree because there may have been some 'republican scum' in those services?
joseph cachia
Sep 5th 2010, 00:59
@Tommy Lee
You must be hallucinating.
The disease , corruption and starvation was created by "BRITTANIA" when some hundred
years back british pirates for long time kidnapped africans and sold them as slaves in
BRISTOL'
while vessels that sailed under king orders , with guns on arms invaded african / asian
countries, dominated the population with guns, stole all resources then with guns invoked their presence .
When ransacked and took the bounty , were kicked out and left starvation.
Pavlaki Pano Aroditis
Sep 5th 2010, 00:25
To Mr Ciantar and all those who seem to have a chip on their shoulder:
Why stop with the Brits and their "polluting" medal? The Normans and Count Roger were adventurers, booty hunters, rapists, burned and pillaged,and had very little culture. Why do you want to commemorate their visit with a little scrap of cloth which is probably the only thing our peasants got from them? Aren't you sucking up to the Normans?
I vote for the crescent on a green base for a flag: We all speak a patois Arabic and had it not been for all these colonists you are railing against we would still be speaking proper Arabic. Nor would you be writing in English, unless you really wanted to suck up to them more. We would probably all have been Muslim too. And Green is for the Libyans, who probably were the only ones who didn't take anything from Malta according to your logic but apparently gave us free oil. You sound like one of those fake revolutionaries from "The Life of Brian" discussing what the Romans did for them.
Alex Ciantar
Sep 4th 2010, 19:58
After reading all the comments I am flabbergasted at how many people still suck up to the British and think of them as gods gift to Malta. Yes Yes they did some good here I agree, but also did a lot of harm, They took over, dictated, pillaged, used, stole, abused and the list goes on etc. etc. and what did they give us for it? a medal!! yes of course we deserved it and I say we earned it but that is only because we stood our ground and won over the Nazi's with only a little help if any at all from the British. The truth of the matter is we gave them a lot more then they gave back to us. So I agree with Norman E Grech that we should not have the George cross on our flag or anywhere else for that matter. We as a nation should be proud that we are unique and are able to sustain ourselves as is proven from 1979 until recently. Conclusion is that the Maltese flag should be just Red and White as originally intended.
B Lostich
Sep 4th 2010, 22:59
You are greatly deluded my friend if you believe the Malta has ever been able to defend itself from anyone unaided, let alone the Nazis. Have you the faintest idea how many British and Commonwealth servicemen and women gave their lives protecting Malta?
You have an army of overweight people (if the characters at the airport are anything to go by), two rowing boats and a hand-glider. You couldn't prevent being invaded by a boatload of Somali pirates.
So before you pump yourself up with indignation, here are a couple of things to consider: If it wasn't through the efforts of other peoples' genius and hard work, Malta would still riding around in donkey carts.
It boast no heritage rich in scientists, engineers, artists, philosopher, or architects etc. I only has hundreds of importers and a fizzy water plant!!
Oh, and one other thing that has made Malta internationally famous: thousands that call murdering songbirds a hobby,.
I agree that the cross should come off your flag but it should come off at our insistence. Until you begin to behave like civilised people, the British Government (and the rest of Europe) should disassociate itself from anything Maltese.
Joe Demanuele
Sep 4th 2010, 23:40
Alex Ciantar you are right Alex. How about the British returning everything that they stole from Malta including the cannons that used to be on show in London with an inscription that they were from Malta but have been removed? How many things did the British steal from Malta? This is the same situation regarding the Elgin Marbles stolen from the Pantheon which the British still refuse to give back to the Greeks. They are STOLEN and only THIEVES STEAL and and ROB from others.
Alex Ciantar
Sep 5th 2010, 20:43
After looking at all the comments most of them pro British and written by people with British surnames (might I add). I consider myself and the Maltese people lucky to have kicked the British out of Malta in 1979. God help us if we are still under the British empire!!! most probably still fighting their wars for them while they rape and pillage our country. As contrary to what has been said Malta has shown the world that even for such a small country we can sustain ourselves, and compared to most other countries (including the UK) we still live and have a better standard of living. now all we need to do is rip of the ghastly cross of our flag and send it back to the queen (maybe she can auction it to pay for the upkeep of Buckingham palace @ B Lostich regards your comments about the Maltese people I suggest you look around you next time you're in Bugibba and see the RIFRAF that is coming from the UK are these sorry excuse for Brits the people you are proud of? think again before you speak your mind.
Alex Ciantar
Sep 5th 2010, 20:45
@ B Lostich The USA and all the other countries like NZ, Austalia, Canada, etc. etc won WW2 and not the British on the contrary the British army run away like little girls across the english channel when the Germans invaded France!!!
Am Camilleri
Sep 4th 2010, 19:41
Just to put a cat among the pigeons . . . is it true that if it hadn't been for the British promoting the use of the maltese language (for ulterior motives I'm sure) then we would all be commenting in italian today?
David Borg
Sep 4th 2010, 20:27
No I think if the British did not come to Malta or did nor promote Maltesen, Italian would be our second langauge instead of English. As far as I know, Maltese was always the main language spoken by most Maltese. In 1934 the British removed Italian and promoted English and also Maltese, the latter to justify the removal of the Italian language. The government Gazzette used to be published in Italian and English.
If I remember correctly, Herbert Ganado in Rajt Malta Tinbidel states that before WWII Italian was spoken in Sliema.
norman E Grech
Sep 4th 2010, 19:08
@Tommy Lee... Again you are deviating!!! Let us talk about barberians shall we then? The Romans, (Italians) a few hundred years ago brought civilisation to the British isles as all there was there before the Romans took over, were these same barberians you refer to. They Founded Londonium (London) and civilised these barberians with laws and a modern way of doing things... So shouldn't the flag of England depict the Julius Ceaser robe (instead of cross) or something else bearing the NAME of a Roman Emperor (instead of king).
No!!! The British crown only wanted to taint the Maltese FLAG!!!
david calleja urry
Sep 5th 2010, 01:17
It's him again - don't you ever get tired of repeating the same argument all the time ?... if the George Cross bothers you that much, why don't you do something about it?... get a petition going or something - but for the love of God, change the subject...flags, medals, foreign kings, Romans (who are not Italians - any more than the Sicilians are lol) - seriously, don't you have anything better to do or worry about?... how sad, real boring life you must have lol
Norman e Grech
Sep 5th 2010, 12:35
@davis callejja Urry..... Hahahahahahahah! I have a boring life!!!!! You really dont know me than!!!!! Heheheheh Is this all you can do? Ceiticise me? as a person? How low and how sad!! How dare you tell what I should and should not writet about? Have a look at the corresspondence here! Who are the people defending this sorry cross? Brits or 'brain-washed' oldies who dont have a mind of their own, or others like you with such an ardent apathy with no patriotism whatsoever!!! Spare me please!!!
Tommy Lee
Sep 4th 2010, 18:42
How ignorant some people are regarding The Great British Empire.
Africa and Asia flourished under British rule, populations exploded because The Glorious British sent medical teams around the world curing disease. The Glorious Royal Navy put an end to piracey and slave ship movement. The hopeless Americans not doing too well there are they? (Somalia rules the waves)
Just look at Africa now, a cesspit of starvation ,disease and corruption.Many Africans pray to the Gods for a British return.But you had your chance along with others, you chose barbarism and corruption, now live with it.
The only sad point is that barbarism has spread to the British Isles.
As for the George cross Flag, if it wasn't for the glorious Brits you would have hoisted the white one long ago.
Mark A. Sammut
Sep 4th 2010, 20:07
Is your comment ironic?
If it is, then hats off to you.
If it is not, then I think you might wish to read Jared Diamond's Guns Germs and Steel to understand the real implications of European colonial policies.
Peter Dalli
Sep 4th 2010, 23:26
Tommy Lee the glorious british empire. Africa and Asia flourished under the british empire? If nations flourished under the british empire where the sun used to never set, how do you account for the fights to get independence Tommy? The british empire has long been gone never to come back again Tommy. Better get used to it.
Norman E Grech
Sep 4th 2010, 18:14
@ Martin C Galea!!! Thanks for the information you gave us about the Armed forces, but hey, I took that photo myself last time I was at the air-show. It was on an Armed forces helicopter. In fact that same badge (shame) is on all air-crafts and vehicles of the Armed forces.... WHY??????
Tommy Lee
Sep 4th 2010, 18:51
Two posts ago you wrote 'I rest my case'. I take it that was false?
Norman E Grech
Sep 4th 2010, 20:08
... That was wishful thinking... you see, people like you entice me to wrote more.... and to strenghten my belief.... This taint, this reminder of a foreign person will one day be removed. More and more people are understanding such an importance... my role is merely to make my fellow Maltese brothers and sisters (as at the end of the day WE Maltese have the right to decide about this) to free themselves from apathy and servile attitude...
Martin C Galea
Sep 4th 2010, 21:13
I was being specific, and rebutting your statement regarding the emblem in caption being the emblem of the Armed Forces, which fact I corrected, giving the proof of my argument. In fact not only that, but I elaborated, and mentioned the cases where the GC is used by the Armed Forces.
Regarding the use of the GC in these cases, military aircraft roundels and Naval insignia are ALWAYS stylised renditions of the national flag in its entirety, so, if you want the GC removed from any Armed Forces vessel, vehicle, or aircraft, may I suggest that you carry on beating your drum about the GC on the national flag, and then, if your wish ever comes true, then I'm certain the Armed Forces, being bound by the constitution of the land, will imediately follow suit, regardless of personal opinion.
Over and out.
Norman E Grech
Sep 4th 2010, 17:51
.. And for those hard-headed contributors who still want to call an apple an orange, no matter how many times you TRY to explain to them, the Malta Cross represents the order of St John .. yes and who were these people? Europeans!!! and are we not in Europe? The george cross, as the name implies, makes reference to 'george' one person, a foreign king!!! Why would a country wave a flag with a mark denoting the name of a foreign person? That is the whole matter!!! Nothing else!!!! Whether the flag becomes just red and white again or whether it has the Malta cross, doesn't really matter... AS LONG AS IT DOES NOT HAVE A MARK OF A MEDAL CONSTITUTED BY A FOREIN KING!!!! Now readers can either keep wearing blinkers... or open their eyes and reason this simple matter out!!!
Norman E Grech
Sep 4th 2010, 17:34
I read with satisfaction and a sense of acceptance the various contributions made. Everyone is ofcourse entitled to his/her opinion, but let us never attack the person. Unfortunately a substantial part of readers are deviating from the matter at hand! Give all the merits to this medal!! But leave it in the museum!! Not on OUR flag please!!! Lord Gort had no right to deface our flag without consulting us. We are now a republic state, free from opression.. I, and many others it seems, think it is about time we remove remnants of foreign people (George) from our flag. Look at this with an unbiassed open mind. When the first person suggesting that even women should vote came up with the idea, they mocked him. All progress starts from a daring idea. I rest my case
M Xuereb
Sep 4th 2010, 16:15
Better still no cross,let's leave that to religion and in churches where it belongs.
No cross, George's or The knight's,both foreign, and both did there best to keep us underfoot.
Mark A. Sammut
Sep 4th 2010, 20:12
Listen to Dun Karm (who was a priest):
Lill-Bandiera Maltija
Hekk, bajda u hamra biss, irridek jiena,
Bandiera helwa ta' din l-art hanina,
Ghax kull meta s-sibbien habtu ghalina
Hekk, bajda u hamra biss, rawk il-hajjiena.
Bajda u safja bhas-sema fil-Libiena,
Meta f'Novembru sajf iehor jigina;
Hamra bhad-demm fuq wicc ta' xebba rzina
Minn dawk li int rabbejt ghax-xogh'l qalbiena.
Hekk, bajda u hamra biss; kull lewn barrani
Li jithallat ma' lwienek, ikun blu,
Jew ikun ahdar, ihassarlek ismek.
Mhux ismek biss jithassar, izda gismek,
Is-sabih gismek ma jibqax li hu;
Imbagh'd... ma jiswa xejn tibki l-warrani.
Peter Vella
Sep 4th 2010, 15:32
Where would Norman, William and other "patriots" of their ilk have been hiding in June 1940 when the Italians dropped their first bombs? Would they have been willing to put their lives at stake to prevent Malta from falling under the boot of fascism? The British may have been coionialists and oppressors of sorts but they were not evil like the Nazis.
Norman - the George Cross represents the sacrifice made by our ancestors. Malta played an important part in the defeat of Nazism, and without that victory we would have never become an independent state in 1964. We are proud of our flag and of the George Cross, if you are not I'm sorry but you have to lump it.
gcForte
Sep 4th 2010, 15:56
Very well said..................But today we have lost every thing.... Independence, Republic, and also.........Freedom....and our new rulers are some of the countries that you are saying throwing bombs on us. The differences is that in the past they threw us bombs fill with TNT, and today they are throwing bombs filled with fines. At the end of the day they have occupied us just the same.
Martin C Galea
Sep 4th 2010, 15:02
Excuse me, but am I the only one who actually having read the letter, stuck to the point, which was putting the lie to the statement that the Armed Forces' emblem gives prominence to the George Cross?
Mark A. Sammut
Sep 4th 2010, 20:09
You are actually right. But the issue is deeper, and more emotional.
James A. Tyrrell
Sep 4th 2010, 14:57
The real shame is that people like you Norman have so little respect for what your own people endured in order to be awarded the George Cross.
B. Cachia
Sep 4th 2010, 19:31
Sovereign states do not award each other decorations and put them on their national flags. Special honours and privileges can only be awarded to one's own provinces or possessions. The George Cross had some meaning when we were a British colony (and many of us were happy to be so at the time), but it has little significance today, when we are a sovereign state.
Fortunately, most foreigners do not understand what the cross means, and most Maltese do not give it a moment's thought. The only foreigner I ever heard make fun of us for proudly keeping it there was actually British.
Am Camilleri
Sep 4th 2010, 20:19
I know many foreigners who look upon the George Cross on the flag as a reminder of how little Malta can punch well above her weight - but sadly that was undermined when the same medal was given to the Royal Ulster Constabulary a few years back. What did the RUC endure that the rest of the population of Northern Ireland did not??
Charles Zammit
Sep 4th 2010, 14:51
ALL these comments to me smell of such a huge inferiority complex !!
Stephen Farrugia
Sep 4th 2010, 16:07
Its not inferiority complex; Its a way to express ourselves on the deception of something which we deemed sacred and powerful; like the knight's cross, or the george cross.. both have been given to us by superpowers which unfortunately; they are obsolete (yes even the brittish empire) ... The only reason why I deem we are worthy of the george cross; is that we're becoming just like england; a mid-empty bowl, who invites illegal immigration because the people in the lead are too afraid to work for their countrymen, because of greater superpowers like the U.N. or the E.U ... :) there I said it ; now its gonna be censored, just like most of my comments, because times of malta also is afraid of freedom of expression.
C J Zammit
Sep 4th 2010, 14:47
@ Stella Vella . I did 25 years in the Royal Navy all of exemplary service . So I advice not to colour everybody with the same brush . I wonder Stella if you are talking through your experience !!
Stella Vella
Sep 4th 2010, 23:20
C J Zammit you can rest assured that what I wrote is not through personal experience, but because only those who were in that trade long for the return of soldiers and sailors.
William P Flynn
Sep 4th 2010, 14:25
Leon Zawadzki
Is your knowledge of Maltese history that terrible that you believe our Maltese Nation can be defined by one piece of tin? A medal given by an ungrateful British nation, which, after the war shut us out of the US Marshall Aid Plan? Thus giving us war rubble for 20 years after war’s end and the opera house never rebuilt?
Shame on you. Our Nation's name is Malta. People have unmistakably known it by that name for millennia. Say after me: Malta; Malta; Malta. You think you might remember that?
lgalea
Sep 4th 2010, 14:02
Hekk bajda u ħamra biss, irridek jiena,
Bandiera ħelwa ta' din l-art ħanina,
Għax kull meta s-sibbien ħabtu għalina
Hekk, bajda u ħamra biss, rawk il-ħajjiena.
Bajda u ħamra bħas-sema fil-Libiena,
Meta f'Novembru sajf ieħor jiġina;
Ħamra bħad-demm fuq wiċċ ta' xebba rżina
Minn dawk li int rabbejt għax-xogħ'l qalbiena.
Hekk bajda u ħamra biss; kull lewn barrani,
Li jitħallat ma ' lwienek, ikun blù,
Jew ikun aħdar, iħassarlek ismek,
Mhux ismek biss jitħassar, iżda ġismek,
Is-sabiħ ġismek ma jibqax li hu:
Imbagh'd ... ma jiswa xejn tibki l-warrani.
DUN KARM PSAILA.
QUM JÀ POPLU U WARRAB IT-TEBGĦAT LI BAQÀ TAL-KOLONJALIŻMU.
ERĠA' ĦU L-ĦELSIEN TIEGĦEL MINN TAĦT IL-ĦAKKIEM BARRANI ĠDID TA' L-ue.
Stephen Farrugia
Sep 4th 2010, 16:09
Il hakkiem mux l E.U ... dak huwa 'way out' jekk jamel zball il gvern... il veru hakkiem hu malti!! Il gvern u l istruttura tal gvern; kellna prova ta 100 sena u ma hadmitx, daqsekk 2 partiti wiehed gvern u l iehor opposizzjoni; jekk ha nivvota, ma nivvotax al kulur... izda nivvota all VALUR!! (Individual voting in a democratic society) ... Think about it
lgalea
Sep 4th 2010, 23:12
Stephen Farrugia Iva sieħbi. L-ue hija l-ħakkiem kolonjalista ġdid għax qed ikollna noqgħodu għal dak kollu li tordna u l-politiċi Maltin saru lagħaqa tagħha kollha jippikaw minn minnhom jilgħaqa l-iżjed. Iva sieħbi, hemm bżonn kbir li l-poplu kollu jqum kontra l-ħakkien barrani ta' l-ue u kontra dawk il-Maltin li qed jaħkmuh f'isem l-ue ħalli nerġgħu nieħdu l-ħelsien mill-ġdid minn taħt il-ħakkiem barrani kolonjalista u neħilsu mill-madmad kolonjali u l-ordnijiet tagħha u nagħmlu dak kollu meħtieġ għalina biex nerġgħu nibnu pajjiżna mill-ġdid għalina u għal uliedna u mhux aktar għall-barrani li qed jerġà jeħdilna artna.
patrick zammit
Sep 4th 2010, 13:56
Neither the British, nor the Knights did us any favour.
Their primary concerns were their own interests and the fact that Malta was strategically situated.
Under their rule, we ended up fighting battles which were not ours.
We did get something in return, but that was secondary to their goal.
joseph cachia
Sep 4th 2010, 15:22
Mr Zammit. Ebda favur ghal MALTA u l'MALTIN , pero il Kavallieri hallew warajhom
l'ghaxqa tal meditterran MALTA b'bini mill isbah u STORIKU.
Ta warajhom hallew "OIL DEPOT" u bini iehor li waqqfu gha bzonn tahhom
Stephen Farrugia
Sep 4th 2010, 16:04
Taf x naf?? Hadd ma halla xejn ... ghax il kavallieri ma bnew xej al hadd hlief alihom... Lunika nies li jaghmlu alihom huma il maltin stess; ghax lanqas in nies li naghzlu biex imexxulna l pajjiz ma jhallulna xejn, ahseb u ara l barranin!
George Micallef
Sep 4th 2010, 13:44
It's a remnant of colonialism and should be removed.
jf Bartolo Snr
Sep 4th 2010, 14:39
Take it off our national Maltese flag, and at this point people living in this country shoudl only fly* ONE FLAG* and thats the Maltese flag, we don't want foreigners and guests whatever they call themselves sticking all sorts of flags, its like the blooming league of all nations. Agree./ as a citizen of this country we got rights too, and thats to express our own opinion, after all its our country, Remember as as famous politician once said, we can join them BUT WE DON'T HAVE TO MARRY THEM. Viva Malta u l'Maltin.
Paul Fenech
Sep 4th 2010, 23:35
jf Bartolo Snr You are perfectly correct Foreign flags should be prohibited and those foreigners who fly a foreign flag should have their property expropriated in favour of the government and be expelled from Malta. This is our country and no foreign flags should be tolerated. Someone some time ago wrote that flying a foreign flag except on an embassy is against the law. If this is so what are the authorities waiting for to take the necessary actions against those who fly a foreign flag?
carmelo aquilina
Sep 4th 2010, 13:42
Mr Grech, this was a civilian award given by our urlers to honour the bravery and sacrifice of people like my grandfather who fought in the war against NAzism and fascism. What emblem do you wish us to have ? The Maltese Cross was adopted from the Knights of St John and the Maltese flag was allegedly given by the Norman Count Roger. Spare us your repetitive psudo-anti-colonial posturing !
joseph cachia
Sep 4th 2010, 12:46
@ P.Pulis
Jaghamel hafna sens.
Il-Kavallieri gew ipprotugew il MALTA u l-MALTIN.
Dawwru MALTA bis-swar u bnew MALTA gawhra, hallew bini storiku
magharuf mad dinja.
Ir-re gie sorga f'Marsamxett , u bena il hofor ghal uzu ta mentalita tad dominazzjoni
li ghenu lill MALTIN fl 'ghejxien.
70 sena wara ghad -dominazzjoni tal POLONJA gab l- taljani u l-germanizi
jibbumbardjaw MALTA u kissru dak li bnew il-kavallieri.
Meta tilef ix-xedaq sab lill MINTOFF bi snien tal azzar, u dabbar rasu.
Joseph Cachia B'Bugia
@ Grry Cowie. Surely you ai'nt one of the majority or the minority.
P.Pulis
Sep 4th 2010, 14:49
Ghandek zball. Il-Kavallieri gew ghax wara li gew imkeccija mimm Rhodi u gew l-Ewropa ma sabux fejn ipoggu. Ir- Re ta' Spanja bi ftehim mal-Papa ta' lil- Malta ghall-kera nominali ta' falkun fis-sena. L-iskop tieghu kien li l-Kavallieri f'Malta jharsulu l-interessi tieghu u tad-dinja nisranija. Ghal dan il-ghan il-kavallieri saru 'pirati' fil-Mediterran bil-barka tal-knisja. Il-piraterija kienet titqies bhala gustifikata basta kontra l-mislem u l-ghedewa tar-Re ta' Spanja.
Ma kienitx tissejjah piraterija imma sibbien.
William P Flynn
Sep 4th 2010, 12:24
@Anton Borg
What British heritage? Colonialism? Glass ceiling for all Maltese? Do me a favour!
British Heritage in Malta usually came with a kick in the backside and an insult for which we were trained to say, thank you, sir, yes sir, three bagsful sir.
A huge blight on the development of Malta the enormity of which can only be gauged by how far Malta has developed since the British were booted out.
Leon Zawadzki
Sep 4th 2010, 13:44
Malta has been ruled by foreign power since its conception thousands of years ago. You had your chance to change it in 1964 to 2004 (forty years) but you threw it away and invited the EU in.
The Maltese character is based on all these powers mainly Arabic and European. There is no clear linage to any known Maltese culture. Check out your history.
Paul Saliba
Sep 4th 2010, 14:11
Leon Zawadzki looks like Poland was in the same soup and did the same didn't it? You jumped from the frying pan into the fire . From the USSR to the EUSSR.
W Spencer
Sep 4th 2010, 16:06
How far HAS Malta developed since the British left ( 50 years ago !! ) ??
Many Locals would say, not a lot, many Locals would say, still a third world Country.
If anyone thinks British rule was bad...........wait until the EU gets going...........at least the British left when asked......................the EU definately WILL NOT !!
Case of out of the frying pan............................LOL !!
Mark A. Sammut
Sep 4th 2010, 20:05
@ W Spencer
The British left when asked?! I do not think that was the case. The British left when it was convenient for them to leave.
There is a lot of myth-making in the way we see history. But perhaps history is nothing but myth-making, after all.
I must say I have mixed feelings when I think about the George Cross. On the one hand, it is somewhat humiliating to have such a decoration on our national flag. On the other hand, it serves to remind one and all that we took part in the defeat of the racist Germans.
I think the late Guido de Marco put it best (as I remarked 15 years ago in a letter to The Sunday Times). He had said, "We fought side by side with the bad [the imperialists] against the worse [the Nazis]."
One asks whether the world has really changed since WWII? Whereas the Punic Wars, for instance, no longer shape our thinking, and neither do the Vespri Siciliani, say... our worldview is still moulded by WWII. The EU is an ongoing reaction to WWII.
Possibly, the GC might be a symbolic reminder that Germany should not dominate Europe.
William P Flynn
Sep 4th 2010, 12:09
I wholeheartedly support Norman Grech in his belief that all foreign insignia should be removed from our Ancient Flag. Our defence forces should likewise be able to proudly stand on their own without any deference to a foreign medal.
Cont'd
mary Pace
Sep 4th 2010, 12:58
it sounds that you too, are agaisn't the british, & yet you got a english ( foriegn) surname, why don't you change it to , a maltese one, since your heart is purely maltese???
William P Flynn
Sep 4th 2010, 13:32
Mary Pace
Ha!Ha!Ha! You must be joking saying Flynn is an English surname. Get your facts right before you laugh at others.
Sylvia Sammut
Sep 4th 2010, 13:52
Flynn is Irish not English mary Pace
William P Flynn
Sep 4th 2010, 12:08
Cont'd
Long live the unblemished unadulterated White and Red.
Keep up the good work Norman Grech. Your children and grandchildren will be proud of you on the day the GC is cleansed from our Flag and retired to the museum where it belongs.
mary Pace
Sep 4th 2010, 13:01
His children & grandchildren got a very long wait ,& that is ''IF'' BIG IF ,( which I ever doubt) they take the george cross of the flag!
Leon Zawadzki
Sep 4th 2010, 13:22
I take it you are referring to the Polish Flag as the Maltese flag has the George Cross emblazoned on it. It is acknowledged by the whole world, unfortunately some Maltese have no pride in their forefathers achievements. I make it a point to insert G.C. after Malta in all my foreign correspondence in the address out of pride for the Maltese people.
Stella Vella
Sep 4th 2010, 13:51
Still longing for the sailors that used to cause so mich trouble in strada stretta mary Pace
Charles Vassallo
Sep 4th 2010, 14:09
Leon Zawadzki I NEVER do that Zawadski. I only write REPUBLIC OF MALTA. I consider GC to stand for GAXIN CROSS.
Tommy Lee
Sep 4th 2010, 12:03
The British were the best thing that ever happened to Malta, The British Empire the best thing that happened to the world. Sadly the world prefered barbarism and has returned to such since British retreat.
William P Flynn
Sep 4th 2010, 12:38
The British Empire ruined Asia and Africa. The British used their knowledge and technology to oppress the helpless smaller nations.
The only good thing that came out of WWII is the bankruptcy of Britain and its relegation to a minor player by the USA. It was the USA which shooed the British out of all the Oceans of the world and by 1966 the sea polluting British navy had more admirals than ships and Britannia ruled only one wave - the Mexican Wave by hooligans at football matches.
Erstwhile colonies are now wealthier, cleaner, healthier and richer than England.
Alan Vella
Sep 4th 2010, 12:57
Tommy Lee makes a compelling case for removing the George Cross from our flag.
Peter Dalli
Sep 4th 2010, 13:49
Tommy Lee no use crying over the long lost empire where the sun used to never set Lee. The days of the british empire colonialism where the people of the colonies slaved away for the british to lead a comfortable life are long gone and will never return.
M Brincat
Sep 4th 2010, 14:21
@Tommy Lee Don't be bothered with what the Irish thinks of the British, their opinion isn't going to change anything. The majority of Maltese people still holds the English nation up high in their hearts.
@ Norman Grech Here we go again! You don't take no for an answer, do you?
In Maltese we have a saying the befits you perfectly 'min jghix bit-tama jmut bil-piena'
Henry Berry
Sep 4th 2010, 14:59
Quite true Tommy Lee. Had it not been for British influence, Malta would now be a 4th rate country instead of a 3rd rate one.
I am certainly no historian but I was led to believe that the Maltese begged Nelson to invade Malta to get rid of the French. The French, I believe were invited to Malta to get rid of the knights, who were invited here to protect them from the Turks.
Great to have a proud history!! bet you wished you had one.
wally vella-zarb
Sep 4th 2010, 15:14
@ M Brincat
There is another Maltese saying that befits people with your servile colonial mentality:
"L-iblaħ jaqla għajnu u jifraħ!"
M Brincat
Sep 4th 2010, 15:53
@wally vella-zarb
and there is an English saying that befits ungrateful people like you ...... when you assume you make an...........
if you knew me personally you wouln't think of using my name and the word iblah in the same comment
Joe Borg
Sep 4th 2010, 23:30
M Brincat the majority of Maltese citizens are not servile and obsequious like some who suffer from an inferiority complex and still are lackeys of the colonialist british who think that they are better than us.
Karl Consiglio
Sep 4th 2010, 11:58
To make a Maltese cross you gotta step on his toes
mary Pace
Sep 4th 2010, 12:55
HA!HA!HA! that's a really good one,KARL, it's been a while since I luagh so hard!HA!HA!HA! Thank you Mr NORMAN GRECh ,for writing this letter, it sure gave us a good laugh! HA HA HA
Anton Borg
Sep 4th 2010, 11:39
The George Cross was a medal given (for the first time ever) to a nation, OUR nation, and thus must be worn by pride on our chests, in this case on our flag. It is a symbol of our fore-fathers' brave contribution to quashing Nazism and Fascism. The George Cross MUST keep on being displayed prominently for future Maltese and foreigners alike to respect that illustrious generation. I can assure you that people like you Mr. Grech, who for some petty reason hold the British a grudge, are not taken seriously by those who truly have our nation's history at heart. The more you lobby for the eradication of British heritage in Malta, the more laughable you become.
Marco Zerafa
Sep 4th 2010, 13:46
Anton Borg it was given to us simply to spite the Axis to deploy more bombs to Malta instead of to the UK. This is the same as when Churchill used to broadcast that Malta was the unsinkable aircraft carrier to serve the same purpose. One more bomb dropped on Malta was one less bomb dropped on the UK.
Alan Kay
Sep 4th 2010, 10:56
The correspondent should be grateful that it wasn't the "Iron Cross."
M.cachia
Sep 4th 2010, 11:58
Good One Sir
Joe Borg
Sep 4th 2010, 14:06
Alan Kay it still is an unwanted remnant of foreign colonialism Kay. When I fly my Maltese flag it is only RED AND WHITE and not tainted with an ex-colonialist cross.
P Borg
Sep 4th 2010, 10:56
Here we go again! Does this guy never give up??
Anna Muscat
Sep 4th 2010, 10:49
What's wrong with the George Cross? If it's the 65 years and the foreign king that are worrying our reader I suggest a revision of the history of our islands - the Maltese cross is not exactly "Maltese". It's as foreign as the George Cross and dates even further back!
Gerry Cowie
Sep 4th 2010, 10:21
Here we go again, Norman! That chip on your shoulder has come back, hasn't it!
Remember it is what the majority wants that counts! Still, it has been a while since you last kicked up a stink about this!
Michael Zerafa
Sep 4th 2010, 13:43
Gerry Cowie a referendum was never held about whether we want it on our flag but it was imposed by the ex-colonial power. So how do you know that the majority wants it?
mary Pace
Sep 4th 2010, 10:02
Are you going to start dreaming again???
gcForte
Sep 4th 2010, 09:55
I think that somewhere I have to agree with you.............but the cross of 8 points belongs to the Knights of Malta and not every Maltese was or is a Knight. I think that if we put the symbol of the monument in Luqa will be more adequate, because it became more popular than all the crosses we have. Besides that is a symbol of what we are getting everyday...........Rahas il petrol b`2 cents ta ewro, fl-istess hin jghola il cilindru tal gass bi 20 cents ta ewro.............Jekk dawn mhux kannen isejhilhom mela x`inhuma ? u...mhux bizzejjed ghandha 69 salib, x`irridu aktar.
mary Pace
Sep 4th 2010, 10:14
GOOD ONE I like your answer very much, especial the 69 slaleb!! you could'nt say it better!!
Paul Falzon
Sep 4th 2010, 13:41
Perfectly correct gcForte. Should also be adopted as the official Arma tar-Repubblika (tal-Banana).
P.Pulis
Sep 4th 2010, 09:49
Would it make sense to replace a cross given to us by a foreign king 65 years ago, with a cross given to us 480 years ago by another foreign king in the form of a Grand Master of the order of St John?
wally vella-zarb
Sep 4th 2010, 10:34
In a word, "YES!"
Martin C Galea
Sep 4th 2010, 10:41
I agree with you, however, I would point out that at least the George Cross was actually given to us. I don't recall reading anywhere that the knights actually gave us their cross. As far as I know, the white, eight pointed cross, was, is, and will always belong to the Sovereign Military Hospitaller Order of Saint John of Jerusalem, of Rhodes and of Malta, whilst the green, eight pointed cross, belongs to the Military and Hospitaller Order of St. Lazarus of Jerusalem, so carrying on under the illusion that it's the "maltese" cross, is poetic licence at best, copyright theft at worst, or just downright ignorant of the basic facts.
Joseph Micallef
Sep 4th 2010, 09:25
The Maltese Cross? What is that? Or are you referring to the Cross of the Order of St. John of Gerusalem, Rhodes and Malta - who were all foreigners!
Martin C Galea
Sep 4th 2010, 09:19
The official emblem of the Armed Forces of Malta, is the de Redin tower, on a background of red, with the cipher "Armed Forces of Malta" underneath.
http://www.findit.com.mt/images/clients/1506.jpg
The cap badge of the Armed Forces of Malta is a cannon pointing left, with the eight pointed cross in the background, with the cipher, "Tutela bellicae Virtutis" (upholder of military might" written underneath.
http://www.afm.gov.mt/slicepages/extras_r1_c1.jpg
For good measure, the following is a shortcut to a picture of the AFM colours, which once again, don't quite agree with your comment:
http://www.maltaspotting.com/Generic/AFM/Rgt%20Colours.jpg
The only instances when the George Cross is used, is on the Air Wing roundels, and the Maritime Squadron unit badge, but in no way do these constitute "the" emblem of the Armed Forces of Malta.
So, your comment isn't quite correct sir.
Frank Portelli 2BFRANK
Sep 4th 2010, 10:59
Very Interesting Martin
Frank Portelli
Martin Galea
Sep 4th 2010, 14:49
You're welcome. I just thought I'd clarify matters regarding the "emblem" business.
In the forces, in which I served proudly for 14 years, I was (still am) proud of my heritage, and was conscious of, and celebrated the fact that what we have now, is a product of that heritage, yet completely distinct of it.
Badges, and emblems, are not a sign of one's lackyism, but of hard earned tradition and history, and no service, no organisation, no nation, would progress without it.
Oh, and if I recall correctly, the Maritime Squadron badge I referred to, is a tactical sign, not their official crest, and this sign actually also has the eight point cross on it, in quadruplicate!
Furthermore, regarding this maltese cross business, it seems that it was first used in Rhodes, before the knights came to Malta, although it only became official after the middle of the 16th century. It seems that it became known as the maltese cross, by the simple virtue of it being used by the order during their sojourn in the islands, but it still remains what it is, just a symbol for yet another occupier, and definitely no "maltese" symbol.
http://www.orderstjohn.org/osj/cross.htm