John R. Mifsud, Attard
Instances where divorce is not a moral offence (2)
There have been several self-styled experts and others who have recently questioned the authority of the Church on strictly religious matters such as the indissolubility of marriage.
At the Sacrament of Marriage, man and wife vow to stay together “till death do us part”, and we have the words of the Lord: “What God hath joined together let no man put asunder.”
Of course, there will be many who will stray, just as we all break one or more of the 10 Commandments from time to time. Thanks to the Lord’s mercy, we are forgiven at confession.
When questioned about how often are sins to be forgiven the Lord’s reply was: “Not up to seven times, but up to 70 times seven”. However the Commandments and Laws of the Church do not change because of their nonobservance; it is we who have to change and conform!
If we do not, there might well come a time in the near future when our country will be hit by a so-called natural or not so natural disaster as has been happening with sorrowful frequency in other countries which may have incurred the wrath of the Lord, God Almigthy.
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Dr. Carmel Carabott
Sep 5th 2010, 11:09
These divorce proposals are rubbished by the fact that people declare (and therefore *contract*) that their marriage is *irrevocable* "until death takes them apart"....How can you ever undo such a BOLD+DOGMATIC assertion?? It's a bullet proof statement. No exit point is contemplated in the current marriage vows. So IFF you choose to get married... You should be legally advised that there is NO WAY of untying the knot again. It's FINAL!
The better alternative would be to change the marriage vows to "Each party will strive to the best of his/her ability to make it work". This is far less dogmatic and offers a way out, when things collapse.
Perhaps there should be 5 kinds of legally defined "knots":
1) Catholic Marriage - Heterosexual-only, indissoluble, totally absolute (For the brave!)
2) Family Partners - Same rights as marriage but dissolvable (for the less bold)
3) Term Marriage - Temporary marriage for 5 years, after which you may choose to renew it
4) Official Cohabitation - dissolvable, Gay friendly, legal status, no child rights
5) Casual Cohabitation - lightly regulated, some obligations, no child rights
J. Gillespie
Sep 5th 2010, 10:50
I have to agree with the author of this article on the fundamental message of the post. Divorce and other moral issues when they are tolerated and even encoraged and become a widespread trend in society only lead to degeneracy and self destruction.
Just look atthe situation in Brittain and Australia where social problems are rampant and a healthy, strong society has been degraded ithe pursuit of selfish hedonistic individualism and relativism. The good people of malta ma not face a natural disaster ifthey fall into the darkness other parts of world have foolishly embraced. But the will definitely encounter the decay and degeneration that has come to all those societies who have forgotten the Lord in the pursuit of selfish and ultimatey destructive desires.
Joseph Micallef
Sep 5th 2010, 17:37
Ok sir so according to you in Malta there are no separations, there have been no annullments and nobody simply co-habits! What can I say - maybe I am living in another country with the same name - because the calamities that you mention and attribut to divorce are also attributable to separations and even annullments.
B. Cachia
Sep 5th 2010, 09:50
The indossulubility of catholic marriage is a 'strictly religious matter' as you say. The indissolubility or otherwise of civil marriage is a strictly civil matter, however.
Dr Joe Brincat
Sep 5th 2010, 09:30
Good Sunday morning to all. On such a day it is not amiss to make a spiritual reflection.
Mr John R Mifsud expressed his reflection without denouncing anyone. The most important paragraphs are the penultimate and the last.
The first one is based on the teaching of Christ. The last in an inheritance from the Old Testament. It is my reading of the New Testament that Christ, who had so many arguments with the Pharisees and the Saducees, based his teaching on a loving merciful God. God never is referred to as vindictive in the Gospels. The Old Testament is different. From Noah onwards...... Christ's arguments with the Pharisees was about "the law"; for Him there were two laws, "love God and love your neighbour".
He repeatedly defied the "laws" to show mercy. And the Pharisees were scandalised.
Christ, in my opinion, made a break with the past.
Joseph Micallef
Sep 5th 2010, 17:34
Oh how I wish people like Joe Zammit understood this!
M. Grech
Sep 5th 2010, 08:58
So Mr Mifsud you are one fo those who believes that the all loving God punishes in this manner?!?! Your belefs appear to be based on fear which is not a good foundation. Xempju ieher ta' x'tipproduci il-knisja Maltija. Fear is the most destructive force in the universe. The church should concentrate more on tolerance and compassion. You have my sympathies.
M Cauchi
Sep 4th 2010, 21:10
This is turning into another religious debate uhhhh. Not everyone is catholic in Malta, deal with it. All we want is the freedom to choose. I think it is fair to say that who wants to get married in a church, go for it..but no divorce for you! Those who get married by state, should have divorce introduced. Let us stop being catholic fundamentalists. I am an atheist and am livid there is no divorce here, now I don t want to hear on what God wants, because I do not believe in a god.
Again, People make mistakes, and marriage is often one of them...deal with it!
Mario Muscat
Sep 4th 2010, 10:21
Hi every body , wow another divorce topic , full of pros and cons , quotes from the bible , copy and paste and a GPRS to hell sponsored JZ .
victor pulis
Sep 4th 2010, 10:02
I would like to put a question to whoever wishes to answer.
Are deceit, lying and stealing sins?
eugene sapiano
Sep 4th 2010, 08:47
No one is saying that a failed marriage is not a tragedy; of course it is! Formerly before taking the decision to separate many would go to the parish priest for advice; now most of them go straight to a lawyer.
That the church has lost much of its influence is it own fault; for some time it could decide who was to govern, and everyone knows which party it has for long supported while in other countries it has even supported dictators, in Europe and South America.
Joe Zammit
Sep 4th 2010, 03:42
A simple argument:
The end does not justify the means.
Divorce is evil condemned by God.
Therefore, no end can ever justify divorce.
George Vella
Sep 4th 2010, 01:44
Mr.Mifsud since all this debate re divorce you really have explained well, many thanks. So it is up to us to choose what stand we take and it is on our conscience.
Stephsn Strojbosch
Sep 3rd 2010, 23:05
Oh, so that's why Malta doesn't really suffer from any natural or unnatural disasters...we're all good and holy.
Unless of course you can count idiocity as an unnatural disaster?
William P Flynn
Sep 3rd 2010, 22:39
@ Joe Zammit
"No one can deny" the teachings of the Catholic church?
I, for one, find it very easy to deny the ramblings of muzewmini and priests based on Bronze Age fairy-tales of fictitious gods, magic and superstition written by nomadic shepherds and catechised by celibate so-called patriarchs in medieval times.
(Patriarchs? How can one be a patriarch and a celibate?)
How can EU Malta allow these stupid teachings to be drawn into and impact our Constitution and family law through Article 2? Best time to get rid of Article 2 was yesterday; it can't be soon enough.
Gerry Cowie
Sep 4th 2010, 08:40
Why should Article 2 concern you, William? You are a citizen of Australia and often ridicule Malta as being a "Mickey Mouse" country. Why not concern yourself with Australia and her hung parliament? By what authority do you speak of "our constitution" ? One cannot be a part time patriot! Your little "poll" was pulled! Leave the Maltese voters to decide for themselves what it is that they want, since your agenda is not under consideration.
Karl Consiglio
Sep 3rd 2010, 21:46
Maria Caruana,
Indeed it is a cry for help, a cry for help from all the nonsense. And doing something charitable doesn't work, trust me I've been working with children with special needs for the last twelve years.
victor pulis
Sep 3rd 2010, 17:44
Maria Caruana(2 hours, 18 minutes ago) Karl Consiglio. Your hatred towards God astounds me. Now what has the Almighty ever done to you, I wonder. Maria I don't intend to defend Karl but your question made me think. You asked Karl why he hated god so much and if god had ever done anything (presumably wrong) to him. According to John R Mifsud god sends natural disasters to punish evil doers. Why does he kill millionsof innocents as well? Should these people ask god the same question you're asking Karl?
Maria Caruana
Sep 3rd 2010, 19:17
Victor Pulis, First of all my comment wasn't addressed to YOU or you can't contain yourself without meddling in?? Now that you're at it, it wasn't your job to answer me. As to your question I'm not even going to waste time answering you as I've never heard such a stupid and void question. You and your likes hound people like a pack of jackals ready to pounce on anyone who defends their God and religion. Now, Mr Pulis, like you I don't know Mr J Zammit from Adam but I admire the man how he never stoops to your level and keep writing what he believes in. He never insulted or hurt anyone to my knowledge, he only defends his religion. Yes he's passionate about it . So what? Whilst you, sir, salivate each time you see his name and can't wait to shred his comments to pieces!
victor pulis
Sep 3rd 2010, 20:44
Maria at least try and explain why you think my question was stupid. Do you think that natural disasters are sent by god as punishment? There, I asked you a direct question.Now will you please be a good catholic and answer me? You say that JZ never insulted or hurt anyone. If sending people to hell is not hurting anyone I don't know what is and I'm talking about 5/6 of the world's population here including all christians except catholics.. If that's not hatred then what is? As for shredding his 'comments' to pieces it's not very hard to do. One final thing Maria, if you comment on an online newspaper be prepared to get feedback. If that scares you or you don't have the answers then don't comment
Joseph Micallef
Sep 3rd 2010, 21:33
@Maria Caruana - sending people to hell just because they don't agree with your religion is insult enough!
George Debono
Sep 4th 2010, 00:48
Maria Caruana
When you tell somebody in a public forum:
"............ it wasn't your job to answer me. As to your question I'm not even going to waste time answering you............."
- it just means that you have run out of arguments
If you don't want to "waste time" answering questions, then just keep out of the debate.
Miguel Micallef
Sep 4th 2010, 12:43
Maria, this is shameful. You should really re-read what you just wrote, and think.
Maria Caruana
Sep 4th 2010, 16:15
Well, well, well. Looks like I have just hit a nerve!
The hounds came all out at last.
Victor Pulis.
Dear man, don't put words into my mouth please. I never said anyone is going to hell! Please! Did I ever say that? Answer me as the good atheist you are. "Feedback" Look from whom I got feedback!!!..... Am I surprised!! And NO I don't have anymore time, I'm about to go out and enjoy myself, something which you and your mates should do more often I suppose.....good day to you all. By the way I've realized some comments here where even written during the night!
Miguel; "shameful"?? I tell you what's shameful! You hatred against God, man! Think!
George Micallef.
I get off the debate when I want to.. just because you gang up to destroy someone whose comments you do not like doesn't intimidate me. Yours is a kind of bullying.
victor pulis
Sep 4th 2010, 17:21
From your style of writing WE seemed to have hit a nerve so don't flatter yourself. Did I imply that you said that anyone was going to hell? you didn't but you sure showed your admiration of someone who did. And by the way, you failed to answer my question. Ah well! Have a good time while you're out. And leave the discussion to people who are not afraid of debating.
Maria Caruana
Sep 4th 2010, 18:14
Victor Pulis,
That's all you seem to do ...debate..and make an issue out of EVERYTHING! Enough said.
W. Azzopardi
Sep 3rd 2010, 16:36
@ r gale
can you illuminate me where the centre of the universe is? since you are sure that earth is not the centre of the universe you must have an idea where it is.
rgalea
Sep 3rd 2010, 16:56
A feeble attempt at humour.....however I will try to "illuminate" you :) The Universe has no centre. therefore nothing can be at it's centre.....but perhaps you are privy to some other information The Universe is expanding but there is no epicentre because it is space itself that is expanding. Earth (and the Solar system) lie on the outskirts of one of the Galaxies's arms.....the galaxy belongs to a collection of galaxies known as the local group. Nothing special at all about our physical location. Where do you believe the Earth is placed?
Joe Zammit
Sep 3rd 2010, 16:24
No one can deny that the Catholic Church infallibly teaches that divorce is a grave sin, condemned by Christ. God is against divorce. Par. 2384 of the Catechism of the Catholic Church states:
“Divorce is a grave offence against the natural law. It claims to break the contract, to which the spouses freely consented, to live with each other till death.
Divorce does injury to the covenant of salvation, of which sacramental marriage is the sign. Contracting a new union, even if it is recognized by civil law, adds to the gravity of the rupture: the remarried spouse is then in a situation of public and permanent adultery:
If a husband, separated from his wife, approaches another woman, he is an adulterer because he makes that woman commit adultery, and the woman who lives with him is an adulteress, because she has drawn another's husband to herself.”
victor pulis
Sep 3rd 2010, 17:38
No one can deny that the Catholic Church teaches that divorce is a grave sin, Joe you will notice that I omitted the word infallibly from your comment because I don't believe the church is infallible. It has shown on many an occasion that it is fallible and how. the church like all other churches and institutions is made up of fallible, mistake prone humans. The bible was written by man like all other books from Cinderella to the Encyclopaedia Britannica.
rgalea
Sep 3rd 2010, 16:05
Do you honestly believe natural and man made disasters are divine retirbution?
Do you also believe the Earth is at the centre of the Universe?
The middle ages seem to be alive and well in certain mindsets.
Karl Consiglio
Sep 3rd 2010, 14:23
John R. Mifsud,
You sound like one of them Muslims who believe earthquakes and volcanoes to be caused by God for girls wearing short skirts.
Maria Caruana
Sep 3rd 2010, 15:14
Karl Consiglio.
Your hatred towards God astounds me. Now what has the Almighty ever done to you, I wonder.
OOps but you hate everything don't you?? You hate God, emblems, political parties, religions, students, feasts...
One advice here, no insult intended...give your PC a break and go do something charitable for once! You might feel a lot better. I wonder if your grudge against God is a cry for help..
George Debono
Sep 3rd 2010, 13:50
"self-styled experts" - surely, this is a mild insult? As a matter of interest, is calling other people "self-styled experts" meant to imply that you, Mr John Mifsud, are an expert?
Mr Mifsud , there is no place in debates for disparaging other people who have expressed their opinion.
G
Louis Amato-Gauci
Sep 3rd 2010, 13:49
Has Malta's anti-divorce lobby been infiltrated by double agents who are actually pro-divorce?
Karl Consiglio
Sep 3rd 2010, 12:03
Don't embarrass yourself with the wrath of your spaghetti monster.
Ramon Casha
Sep 3rd 2010, 11:33
“What God hath joined together let no man put asunder.”
Here's a suggestion so help you reconcile the reality of broken marriages with that statement: You could simply declare that any marriage that has irrevocably failed was never joined together by God in the first place. Makes sense right?
Raymond Camilleri
Sep 3rd 2010, 11:09
oh! so natural disasters are the wrath of God!? What medieval thinking! Erm... who do you vote for Mr Mifsud? Hizb-ullah? PN? who???
Ronald Cauchi
Sep 3rd 2010, 10:52
To say that I am shocked is an understatement.Mr Mifsud claims that .."there might well come a time in the near future when our country will be hit by a so-called natural or not so natural disaster as has been happening with sorrowful frequency in other countries which may have incurred the wrath of the Lord, God Almigthy." So according to him his God goes around sending floods, earthquakes, hunger, pestilence to punish the poor people of these unfortunate areas that suffer such calamities. How unforgiving and unchristian is this god if his.
victor pulis
Sep 3rd 2010, 10:04
So are you implying that natural disasters in which the main victims are the poorest of the poor and the defenceless such as children, the infirm and the old are sent by god as punishment? Are earthquakes such as the one which wrecked Assisi a punishment by a benvolent, loving, merciful god? Are the floods in Pakistan in which thousands of children died a result of god's wrath? Whenever a natural calamity occurs it's the poorest, the innocent and the defenceless who suffer the most. The rich and the corrupt are hardly ever hit. And anyway, aren't we told that heaven and hell are precisely there so that justice is done after we die?
sciortino m
Sep 3rd 2010, 09:49
Mr. Mifsud
I have no problem with the assertion that the Church has authority on Catholic doctrine but we are talking of civil marriage, its effects and its civil dissolubility. The bill presented in parliament is not a religious document and does not purport to change Catholic doctrine.
It is a pity that the matter has been hijacked into a religious battle. This is a civil question for civil society to resolve.
JOSEPH ZAMMIT
Sep 3rd 2010, 15:47
@M sciortiono--RIGHT ON THE MARK!!!!!
Why is this topic of Divorce discussed from a religious view, and moreover, from a Catholic viewpoint?
Many Maltese citizens are NON-CATHOLIC and so it is unfair to discuss Divorce from the Catholic point of view. The law of divorce is a civil law and not a religious one. Non-Catholics do not give a dime what the church teaches and even if the majority of Maltese are Catholic, all other NON-Catholics should not be discriminated against. The law of divorce should be passed and only those who believe it is a sin should abstain from it.
STOP REFERRING TO CATECHISM AND BIBLE AS THIS IS A CIVIL LAW.
And natural disasters are not the wrath of God.
sciortino m
Sep 3rd 2010, 18:32
Discussion on divorce has taken a surreal turn. We've had discussion of Aquinas's philosophical writings and the role of conscience. Others have been quoting texts in latin. The problems the country is facing are the huge rate of marital breakdowns, the increasing number of children born out of wedlock and to single mothers, the increasing number of cohabitation and the other social factors. This is for civil society to solve. Divorce is only a part of the solution to these problems because a number of cohabiting couples would prefer to be married for its security. Discussion of the bible and the gospels has taken the place of the search for a holistic solution to remedy these problems. Divorce might be just a part of the solution. Remember Christ himself said that his reign is not of this earth. Marriage and its breakdown are of this earth and therefore for civil society to regulate as it deems fit. Civil society and its Government does not regulate heaven or hell. That is left to Joe Zammit who seems to be ultimate arbiter of who goes to heaven or who goes to hell.
Joe Zammit
Sep 3rd 2010, 09:47
John, God is all merciful but no one is going to deceive him. He forgives our sins but for forgiveness we must repent and make a genuine promise not to offend him any more.
We must insist a lot on the power of God's grace. Through grace God gives us the necessary power to our free wills to deny ourselves to please him in everything we do. Then we shall call a spade a spade. We shall call grace, grace, and sin, sin.
For those who love God the infallible teaching of the Catholic Church will be easy to follow. The more we deny ourselves, the easier we find it to please God even in the least things.
Let us pray for sinners so that they convert sincerely. After conversion they express their genuine joy in God which they did not experience before, although they tried to give the impression they were happy. Now they are really glad, being friends with God, being one with God.
And let us remember that Christ is waiting all of us EVERY DAY in our Catholic churches.
patrick zammit
Sep 3rd 2010, 13:04
"infallible teaching of the Catholic Church"
Was the church also infallible when:
1) the church put Galileo under house arrest for life for his support of Copernicus' heliocentrism theory?
2) the church stole a dying person's property in exchange for prayers for his soul’s salvation?
3) the church burnt people at the stake for not agreeing with the church's views?
4) the church buried people at the mizbla and imposed the dnub il-mejjet on MLP followers?
5) the church actively protects paedophile priests by transferring them to other unsuspecting localities (not Mexico) where they can continue to abuse more children at their new locality?
6) the church castrated choir boys so that their voice would not break since women were “unclean” to sing in church?
7) the church, during confessions threatened people with not giving them absolution of their sins if they use coitus interruptus and have less than 1 child every 11 months or so, contributing to social problems like making Malta almost the most populated country in the world?
8) the church supported the Spanish royalty in enslaving/torturing/killing of whole civilisations (Incas/Aztecs/Mayas) running into millions of natives in their search of earthly pleasures and riches?
victor pulis
Sep 3rd 2010, 13:10
Joe do you consider yourself happy when you know that five billion people are going to hell and that the devil will win in the end? This is according to your reasoning not mine.
So Jesus is waiting for all of us in our catholic churches which means that all other christians are wasting their time. A pity you're not a consultant to the pope. Deauteronomy 21:14 to 21.
Joseph Calleja
Sep 3rd 2010, 16:26
@ Patrick Zammit and Victor Pulis, and anybody else, please ignore the man and don't fall for his gimmicks. Leave your comments to somebody more dignified without hate and prejudice. According to him you are condemned to hell anyway so why waste your time and energy.
Kenneth Cassar
Sep 3rd 2010, 09:22
"There have been several self-styled experts and others who have recently questioned the authority of the Church on strictly religious matters such as the indissolubility of marriage".
Civil marriage, far from being a "strictly religious matter", actually is strictly a secular marriage.
Seeing that you start from a totally wrong premise, the rest can be easily dismissed as uninformed.