Two Nationalist MPs join anti-divorce Facebook group
An anti-divorce Facebook group which has already garnered the support of 1,500 members has been joined by Nationalist MPs Franco Debono and Edwin Vassallo.
But when contacted, Dr Debono said he could not really remember joining the group.
“If you say I’m on the group, then yes I’m on the group. I’m taking your word for it. I’m not contesting it... In principle, I am not in favour of divorce. But there is an ongoing discussion and I intend to follow it...”
He stressed, however, that he was not one to take a “frontline” stance on this issue and there were other MPs for that. He said he was more interested in issues such as the South and the right to a lawyer when under arrest.
Mr Vassallo, on the other hand, was more convinced about his membership in the group and said he was yet to be persuaded that divorce could remedy the situation today.
“I’ve been saying this... I am convinced because I know the consequences that divorce has had abroad. As chairman of the Social Affairs Committee I’m constantly in touch with the consequences of separation. I think divorce will just make the pain worse.”
The group also attracted the much loved sexagenarian rock ‘n roll star Freddie Portelli, ironically famous for his break-up song Mur u Ħallini (Go and leave me alone).
The group, entitled “We say no to divorce in Malta”, starts by pointing out that Malta is one of only two countries in the world which does not permit divorce.
“We aim at gathering those who understand that we should not follow where others have failed. It is our conviction, supported by statistics, that divorce should not be legalised.”
The group’s young creators, Benjamin Camilleri and Alexander Vivian Grima, appealed for anyone who does not favour divorce to join the group, regardless of their reasons.
“Many people argue that divorce is unholy and it goes against the wishes of God and the Church. At the same time there are those who do not believe in divorce, not for spiritual reasons but more in terms of social morals... This group is aimed at gathering all anti-divorce Maltese people into a single group, whatever the reason may be.
“We may not agree on why divorce should not be introduced in Malta, but we all have a common enemy: Divorce itself.”
When contacted, Mr Camilleri said he had not expected such a “huge and fervent” response but always believed there was a silent majority against divorce which is afraid of making its voice heard.
In fact he said he had “no qualms” about there being a referendum on the issue.
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Joe Zammit
Dec 12th 2010, 16:39
A simple argument:
Whatever goes against God’s law is sin.
Divorce goes against God’s law.
Therefore, divorce is sin and a grave sin.
Join in the battle between God and the devil! Fight the good fight! The victory is ours, it's already guaranteed!
ray sacco
Aug 1st 2010, 19:42
@sabrina borda:
because, as the holy saintly catholic church puts it: annulment is different from divorce! and where is the difference? while divorce makes common sense and states that a marriage took place, had it's moments, memories and children, but broke down: annulment brands a failed marriage as if it were some imaginary fiction which never happened. so years of two people sharing their lives together and also producing children is wiped out from history! that's how much the holy church respects marriage! and what about the children? they end up as the off spring of a marriage that never was?!?!?!? i thought the church was against children born out of wed lock! and it is absolutely not true that annulments are only given in some rare cases. annulments are being granted for ridiculous justifications which the lawyers are coming up with in order to win their clients' cases, even when marriages of more than ten years with children are involved! and there might be another difference between divorce and annulment....................it's where the cash flows to!
but as mr. zammit says.........divorce is a great social evil..............i wonder if he has anything to say about annulment!
Joe Fenech
Aug 1st 2010, 14:33
So now we've resorted to Facebook politics? Cut the Circus!!!
Justin Spiteri
Aug 1st 2010, 12:22
Secularism is the answer here.
Catholics should never be allowed to divorce, agreed... it's the rule of the Church which they freely chose to be part of.
On the other hand, all those who are 1.) Non catholic 2.) Whose religion allows them to divorce. 3.) Have no religion. 4.) Openly denounce their religion.
Should be allowed to live according to the rules they follow, whether they're of a particular religion, or of the state. There, everyone happy!!...
A Porter
Aug 1st 2010, 06:11
Divorce is wholly contradictory.
First of all it turns families into temporary things. A family should always be considered as something permanent. Even if the marriage fails, the family always remains there in the background. A man may divorce on paper but his past, his broken promise and his broken children will haunt him. Turning familiies into temporary things is wholly unnatural as any child from a broken marriage will tell.
A marriage (even a civil one) is a vow (others want to call it a contract) for life. You take a wife unconditionally and in the process you are excluding all the other women in the world. Society should upkeep this principle of making members responsible for their acts and promises.
We cannot reward a man who fails to keep his promise by giving him an option to make a second promise. Divorce does not introduce remarriage. It kills the concept of marriage in the first place.
These are all secular arguments that apply for all people in a society irrespective of their beliefs.
B. Cachia
Aug 1st 2010, 12:49
Yes, this is the only strong argument that I know of against the introduction of divorce: it would change the nature of the marriage contract, watering it down considerably. To some extent, this has happened already, with the removal of the social stigma that once used to be associated with separation and cohabitation but, yes, divorce could well weaken it further.
In my view, the debate should be about 'how' to introduce divorce. For example, we currently have two parallel systems for annulment where the Church tribunal decides on Catholic marriages and the Courts decide in other cases (civil marriage, or cases where both parties agree on a civil process). Why not have a similar model for divorce, which would mean that this would be available only to couples married in a civil ceremony or where there is the consent of both? In this way, the option of a Catholic marriage sanctioned and protected by the State would remain in place. That is the option I would choose for myself, or not get married at all. I think that many couples, when considering their options, would likewise opt for a 'strong' marriage vow as opposed to a 'weak' one.
Andrew Farrugia
Jul 31st 2010, 23:29
kemm aw min andu dwejjaq... jiftah grupp laqwa li ma jhalliex lil ohrajn jghixu liberi... jien insaqsihom lil dawn kontra..... min iridu ax mhuwiex bhalkom x jamel ??? min ma jridtx jemmen fil kristjanezmu u min irid jerga jizewweg ax imewgga x jamel ???
Bud Moureaux - Flanders (BE) & Xemxija, SPB (MT)
Jul 31st 2010, 20:11
Have joined the Facebook group 'FAVUR D-DIVORZJU F'MALTA' and posted the following comments:
My urgent plea to Malta's MPs of all parties: "Please catch up with today's needs of the Maltese people;
(1) Separate State and Church and
(2) Introduce civil divorce". This is already 50 years overdue.
I am a full supporter of Dr. Lynn Zahra's divorce court case. I love Malta and its people.
All those who support the idea that Malta should introduce civil divorce as well as those who have someone in their family or amongst their friends who are suffering from this situation, I urge them to join this group.
Bud, staying periodically at... my own flat/penthouse in Xemxija and intending to stay there permanently in a few years time
Paul Pace
Jul 31st 2010, 18:47
Well both MPs got barely elected in the last election and now with their views against the peoples rights, I am sure we will not see them in parlament. They are Mps who think that MALTA IS IRAN. They dont know the difference between church law and civil law.
Joe Zammit
Jul 31st 2010, 16:16
A Catholic is Catholic always and everywhere. So discussing a topic from a civic point of view does in no way mean that a Catholic is on leave from his obligations towards God and his one holy Catholic and Apostolic Church.
No Catholic can ever accept evil, like divorce, in his civic arguments. After all, Christ condemns divorce always (with no exception!) for our own good. So the religious argument strengthens the civic argument because the Catholic has Christ enlightening words to convince him or her that divorce is evil and as such is always to the detriment of society.
No MP can vote in favour of divorce without sinning seriously against God. If an MP votes for divorce he or she is betraying Christ. And I seriously warn each MP: Be careful, because God is not asleep! I hope all MPs will understand what I am saying!
B. Cachia
Aug 1st 2010, 20:55
@ Joe Zammit: And what about cohabitation, heresy, homosexuality, contraception, non-attendance of mass etc? Is the Catholic politician who stands idly by and does not take action to outlaw and prevent these activities also 'sinning seriously against God'? If so, what penalties do you propose that a Catholic politician should impose on heretics, for example?
George Mangion
Jul 31st 2010, 12:00
These are two candidates who will certainly receive my family's vote in the next election.
noel darmanin
Jul 31st 2010, 10:46
ghall dawk kollha li jixtiequ u jaraw il fatt li f malta ghandu jkollna d divorzju bhall pajjiz l ohra ta l U.E, jekk jogghobkom ghatuna s support taghkom billi tinghaqdu fi grupp gdid fuq facebook, FAVUR D DIVORZJU F'MALTA TKS
Sabrina Borda
Jul 31st 2010, 08:50
Live and let live, therefore these two Mp's make their lifestyle through their choices and hopefully they will be choices they do not regret and that will keep them content.
Whereas some people have made choices of which they do regret. Terrible mistakes do occur and could happen even more so when people make life changing decisions when they are so young. They do change. Marriages do fail, Loves does die. Because these Mp's are in the majority therefor those who wish for a divorce to improve the lives of their children (away from stigmatization) and as well as their own and move on to form a happy mature family or perhaps to merely live in peace, those chances are dead . Whatever valid reason many people may wish to divorce, if the majority of anti divorce campaigners do not see divorce as giving another chance to them, then the notion of 'Live and let Live dies too. The anti divorce campaigners though it may not concern them directly will take the chance for those who wish divorce and kill it and be proud to announce that only two countries in the world have no divorce.
M Calleja
Jul 31st 2010, 06:49
Naqbel li tiddahhal il-ligi li tippermetti d-divorzju u naqbel ukoll li dan ikun l-ewwel jinvolvi ezercizzju ta' rikonciljazzjoni biex jigu salvati dawk iz-zwigijiet li jistghu jigu salvati.
Lil dawk kollha li "outright" ma jaqblux mad-divorzju - ghandkom dritt ghal opinjoni taghkom - pero kunu afu li hawn min veru qieghed ibaghti. Ma riidx insemmi kazijiet imma verament hawn kazjiet bla tama, tant u hekk li anke l-Knisja tammettihom billi tikkoncedi l-annulament. Ghall-informazzjoni ta' kulhadd anke l-qrati ta' Malta jikkoncedu l-annulment civili. Fiz-zewg kazi, iz-zwieg jigi dikjarat null (jigifieri qisu qatt ma kien hemm zwieg, imma dawk il-kazi li jikkwalifikaw ghal dan l-annullament huma ftit wisq.
Min jaf kieku tkunu intom f'sitwazzjoni fejn ir-ragel jew il-mara taghkom qieghed jaghmel zball wara l-iehor, ma jammetti qatt, inti tghix fil-mizerja [ma nsemmux it-tfal fiex qed jghixu] u m'ghandkomx triq ohra hlief li tibilghu kollox?
Min ma jaqbilx mad-divorzju ma jirrikorrix ghalih, imma tillimitawx ghal min jehtieg b'disprament it-tieni cans. Konvinta li hafna minn dawk li llum qeghdin iparlaw kontra d-divorzju llum, jekk jidhol, ikunu minn ta' l-ewwel li jirrikorru ghalih. J'Alla ma jkollomx bzoonu, imma kull min ghandu tfal ma jista' jghid xejn.
Bil-haqq, jien mizzewwga u kuntenta u m'ghandix bzonn tad-divorzju.
C Grech
Jul 31st 2010, 09:17
Well said, Ms Calleja. The mentality presented by some here on this blog is one such that if you are married - and divorce is eventually legalised - then all married couples will be getting divorced. Blinkered mentality, or what?? Not everybody is lucky enough to land themselves in a happy marriage. What happens to that wife and kids where the husband/father just takes off (not necessarily with someone else) and they are left in limbo - not knowing whether he's coming back or not? What about victims of physical/psychological abuse, be they spouses or kids? Couples grow together in marriage when they work hard at it, communicate and most of all have RESPECT for each other. When one side starts to evade and disrespect the other, that's when trouble sets in.
PS - As for Dr Debono not remembering joining the Facebrook group, words fail me!!
Jeremy N Grech
Jul 31st 2010, 02:43
Okay lets put it this way..Malta.. as a whole country should decide as a whole country shouldn't it?... Now let's assume that there really are 97% roman catholic in this place..
(of which probably more than 30% are just baptized and only put forward their beliefs when they need something and the rest are either teens who hate the church but were received communion or old retired people who go to church every day to socialize with neighbors then the percentage should go down to like 40%.. but that's beyond the point because it's only my personal assumption)
Anyways.. let's assume that really 97% of the citizens are roman catholics... then what to do with the remaining 3% are they some kind of dogs or what? Don't they have human rights as well? We are either a catholic country or a liberal country... don't you remember the crucifix story because of Muslim presence in Malta? Oh and by the way... I've seen a lot of cases in which religious and catholic people did agree with divorce. regards (:
Karl Consiglio
Jul 31st 2010, 00:45
Franco Debono doesn't even remember joining this anti-divorce group, whats a guy with such a terrible memory doing as a member of our parliament? Perhaps from time to time he tends to forgets THAT too.
Karl Consiglio
Jul 31st 2010, 00:40
@Edwin Vasallo
"I think divorce will just make the pain worse"
Sounds rather vague, can you expand on that please?
Robert Callus
Jul 30th 2010, 18:29
I can't understand why some people here are complaining about freedom of speech. Who is limiting these people's freedom of speech? NO ONE! (And that 's how it should be, even if I disagree with their opinion) On the other hand people with a different opinions or expressions have had their works banned and right now in this country there are people risking imprisonment for publishing non-conventional art and literature.
Lino Apap
Jul 30th 2010, 18:23
Oh thank you - that's two candidates (well one actually - the one who's on our district) who will certainly NOT receive my family's vote in the next election.
m. borg (slm)
Jul 31st 2010, 14:24
As if not voting for those two but still vote gonziPN will change anything the stance taken by gonziPN will still mean no to divorce.
How naive.
Rudy Sollars
Jul 30th 2010, 17:29
" A fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject"
- Sir Winston Churchill
Joseph Calleja
Jul 30th 2010, 16:15
" Two Nationalist MPs join anti-divorce Facebook group ". Now that's breaking news, front page news. Might I remind everybody that we are talking about POLITICIANS. Politicians are like a vane, they turn with the wind, besides what's the big deal about two politicians signing on facebook as anti divorce. I am a hundred percent in favour of divorce but please to all, I am a bit appalled at the way some of the people are using God as a weapon pro and con. Let's have a decent discussion and leave God out of it. There are lot of people that are in favour of divorce and believe in God and vise versa. For some people it's the only defense they can muster and that is only because they feel threatened and find themselves cornered. This is 2010 and people have a mind of their own and can think for themselves. The days of jump when I tell you to jump is gone and the church is not so domineering as it used to be. Divorce can be a good thing. If a couple ask for a divorce that means that their marriage is already broken down beyond fixing.
Dr. John Zammit
Jul 30th 2010, 15:51
For those interested can also go to the Malta Divorce Movement website: www.freewebs.com/maltadivorce and see what it has done since the 1990s, even a petition at the European Parliament in Brussels.
Edric Micallef Figallo
Jul 30th 2010, 15:33
Seems like the journalist here wants to water down Hon. Debono's position against divorce. What is expected, that a person knows or remembers all the facebook groups he joins? As if that would be one of the most important things on the mind of someone.
Anyways, Hon. Debono was as clear as it gets on what counts. He is against divorce as a matter of principle. Well done for that, and well done and said by Hon. Vassallo as well.
Well done to the group's creators as well, it gives hope to see that they're actually quite young and willing to go against the current.
victor pulis
Jul 30th 2010, 18:55
How can they go against the current if according to them they are in the majority?
Leonard Gauci
Jul 30th 2010, 15:17
Some people commenting here probably still believe that the earth is flat.
MBorg
Jul 30th 2010, 16:31
We have been getting this comment over and over.
It seems that some people commenting here are happy to let us know that they are now wise enough to know that the earth is not flat.
What this has to do with divorce is beyond me.
E Camilleri
Jul 30th 2010, 14:47
This is a good initiative. Living in a democracy entails freedom of expression. These people have as much right setting up a facebook group opposing divorce as others have to set up one in favour. I myself do not believe divorce is the solution.
MBorg
Jul 30th 2010, 13:16
@ Charles Sammut
Calm down. Are you feeling any better now that you have let us know of your hatred towards God ?
We believe, unlike you we do not feel wise enough to say that there is no God. Unlike you whatever God wants of us we try to follow. It is not easy , but we try..
Cfarrugia
Jul 30th 2010, 13:02
I would appreciate if someone from the below conytributors preaching about God explain something to me.
If I an married by the State...i.e. bic civil, and not by the Church, would you agree that God does not come into the argument of whether or not divorce should be introduced?
MBorg
Jul 30th 2010, 12:57
J. Pullicino Orlando said that he is pro divorce , why cannot these two MP say that they are anti divorce ? What is the big deal ? We are all free to decide on this matter.
If there are some MPs who want to destory family life it does not follow that all the other MPs and all of us have to agree with them. We all know that divorce creates more problems rather than sloving them.
Ramon Casha
Jul 31st 2010, 07:55
Oh they can, absolutely.
However, since they are politicians, it makes sense for people to see what they stand for before the next election comes.
Peter Calleja
Jul 30th 2010, 11:58
The church should keep well out of such issues, "people in glasshouses should not throw stones"........... they have caused enough trouble.
David Caruana
Jul 30th 2010, 11:39
Great idea!
WWW.DIVORCEINMALTA.COM
If you agree with the introduction of divorce, this is the time to show it to our decision makers, our politicians - so please sign the PETITION!
JOe Gatt
Jul 30th 2010, 15:59
Petitions will not make much the change.
Ignore all the garbage. Yr vote will make the difference. Make the change yourself @ election time
Vince DeBono
Jul 30th 2010, 11:30
2 out of how many MP's?
m. borg (slm)
Jul 30th 2010, 11:29
“If you say I’m on the group, then yes I’m on the group. I’m taking your word for it. I’m not contesting it... In principle, I am not in favour of divorce. But there is an ongoing discussion and I intend to follow it...” - Franco Debono MP (gonziPN)
What's the use of following the discussion when one has already an opinion, and in his case, even if he is some how convinced otherwise is not able to vote as he would like if his boss doesn't give him a free vote .?
Like someone already said, this is simply a gimmick by MPs to garner votes, goes also to any PL MPs that join the group.
Charles Zammit
Jul 30th 2010, 11:22
@ J Farrugia Your holier than thou attitude is full of misunderstanding , also your insulting " pogguti " word is just that . Some of these people have separated becouse of abuse of on sort or another , so ignorance is bliss on such a subject . Any human has a second chance at happiness . I mean priests get dipensation from their Holy Orders and can marry ie divorced from one Sacrament to enter another .
@ A Farrugia .As for MP's these people have the right to their personal opinions. As for Dr Franco Debono this young MP has said that his main aim is to make the neglected South his priority and that is what he mainly has done since being elected ,no politician of either hue has fought to make the South a better place mainly Birzebbuga & Marsaxlokk as he has done . May this young politician continue fighting for the betterment of this area.
Joe Zammit
Jul 30th 2010, 11:15
Divorce is a great social evil. Marriage is for ever.
No MP can vote in favour of divorce. To divorce is evil and condemned by God. God unites a couple in marriage and no one, no State has the right to dissolve their marriage.
Divorce is a grave sin. Helping anyone to divorce is equally a grave sin. Voting in parliament in favour of divorce is grave sin that separates that MP from God and puts him on the way to hell. Divorce pleases only the devil and his followers.
DIVORCE NEVER!
cfarrugia
Jul 30th 2010, 14:56
Dear Mr Zammit,
'God unites a couple in marriage' if the marriage is a church marriage. And what about a state marriage ?? Does God have 'jurisdiction' here as well??
Joe Zammit
Jul 30th 2010, 16:34
Mr Farrugia, God is always uniting two together in every valid marriage. Christ was clear enough, speaking of all marriages: "What God has joined together let no man put asunder!" In all marriages the man and the woman leave their parents and family to unite together and they become united together for life by God. God has created humanity and God has created marriage. So only he has the right to put rules to it.
victor pulis
Jul 30th 2010, 19:02
Joe does that include a Hindu, Bhuddist, Muslim, marriage? By the way are you still of the notion that only catholics go to heaven? And if you happen to meet a pro divorce activist in the street would you talk to him/her knowing that he/she's in league with the devil?
C Fenech
Jul 30th 2010, 21:31
The Orthodox Church allows that a person gets a divorce for up to 3 times. They are also Catholics :)
B. Cachia
Jul 30th 2010, 22:45
@ Joe Zammit: No, he obviously was not referring to civil marriage, as this is considered to be totally non-existent by the Church. So much so, that a couple married in a civil ceremony only need not even obtain a separation, let alone a divorce, before marrying other people in Church (without any civil effects, of course).
Sabrina Borda
Jul 31st 2010, 08:14
If marriage is forever and a break from it is evil, then how come the church granted over 600 annulments in just five years? Marriage is not forever to many. Love dies. You are happy to see broken people suffer.
Joe Grima
Jul 30th 2010, 11:10
The PR surrounding the pro-divorce group is abominable. I who read all the newspapers everyday was unaware that such a grup existed andf I only learned of it from contributors to this column. I have now joined both the pro-divorce group and the Separate Church friom State Group. Is the Times now going to run another stiory to say "Former Minister joins pro-divorce Group? Surely a former Minister ranks higher than a backbencher and should create more interest in a joiurnalist looking for a new angle to a story. The moral of this contribution is that the heading of this particular stiory is as stupid as the one yesterday which said that "divorce had already been defeated in the courts " when the case for divorce will not be tabled in our Courts before October this year. What makes todaty's heading even less newsy is the fact that the boss of the two backbenchers has already expressed himself nationally against divorce. Let's see if now Dr Gonzi will have the giuts to repeat himself in court in the same way that he expressed himself against divorce in his Sunday sermons.
J Shaw
Jul 30th 2010, 10:57
..... and might as well check-out www.DivorceInMalta.com with an online petition facility
joe gatt
Jul 30th 2010, 11:39
Pro, Against, Religion etc etc. All irrelevant, simply disregard all the BULL Excrement & do not even bother.
HANDS UP, all those in favor and be counted.
At election time use your brains and vote wisely, if you want to make it, VOTE IT IN.
Small kids love Candy as much as politicians need yr vote. Show resolve & attitudes will change.
Do not permit others to dictate, but take charge & control yr own destiny
Charles Zammit
Jul 30th 2010, 17:33
Well said Joe.I think many people are thinking like you.
Kat Gauci
Jul 30th 2010, 19:32
The only question is: Will any political party include it in their electoral manifest?! The promise of a free vote is a joke so it's AD for me next time!
Michael Catania
Jul 30th 2010, 10:54
In the past we were always taught that only catholics have the right to heavean, now that we are more matured we find that this is not so. We now have these do gooders who come out against divorce. I wonder how genuine they really are. I know a number of seperated men who oppose divorce yet they are co- habitng and have children. when asked why they oppose divorce, the church teaching is their excuse but I know they have another motive and that is when they find another prospective partner they just walk out and let the other partner hold the "baby". I WONDER HOW MANY OF THESE ANTI DIVORCE persons I could put with those of the seperated men I mentioned.
victor pulis
Jul 30th 2010, 19:06
Think again Michael. Joe Zammit still thinks that only catholics go to heaven if there was such a place.
David Caruana
Jul 30th 2010, 10:35
Can everyone calm down please? As Franco Debono well said "But there is an ongoing discussion and I intend to follow it...”
By joining a Facebook group does not meant that you support its cause but it might be that you just want to follow the opinions if those against the introduction of divorce.
Ramon Casha
Jul 30th 2010, 11:03
Good point. Facebook does not allow people to join in a discussion without joining the group first, although personally I prefer to join, post the comments then leave the group - just so that I don't show up as a "supporter".
G.Debono
Jul 30th 2010, 12:02
Agreed, but please respect my intellegence and don't talk crap saying that you don't know if you joined a facebook group or not. I mean, if the guy is suffering from dementia, then representing the people in parliament is a no-no and he should resign.
To me, this man is after fame and he is playing a chess game, toeing a fine line to please people's perceptions. He did it in the past when he created that mess in parliament and he is doing it now.
MBorg
Jul 30th 2010, 13:07
Is there any need for you to defend Franco Debono ? I hope you are not doing this because you think that by joining this Facebook group he might lose votes of the pro divorce brigade ?
I trust that our MPs have the guts to stick to their principles in somthing that is so important to our nation and that they just do not run after votes.
J Farrugia
Jul 30th 2010, 10:28
The Crusades have already started with those 'pogguti' who want divorce to give themselves a nice face. And now it's only fair and logical for those against divorce to wage a holy war against the introduction of divorce in Malta. Divorce is a human wrong, destroys the family and hurts women and children. And let those who dont have a God to continue being cynical. Il-Blugha tal-ghorrief. So they think.
David Spiteri
Jul 30th 2010, 11:08
"Divorce is a human wrong, destroys the family and hurts women and children." I think the anti-divorce side is missing some thoughts.... a family is destroyed WELL BEFORE DIVORCE is granted. A family is destroyed for many reasons BUT NOT FROM DIVORCE. No family which is living happily, come one day and decide to divorce.
Also, if divorce is introduced, IT WILL BE NOT IMPOSED!!! This is not an imposed tax or any other contribution towards the country but it's something that SHOULD YOU NEED IT and SHOULD YOU WANT IT, you can file for divorce. Divorce or not, families will still brake up and children will still continue to struggle from broken families.
Paul Barrett
Jul 30th 2010, 11:11
@ J Farrugia
Quote: Divorce is a human wrong, destroys the family and hurts women and children Unquote.
Divorce is not a sexist process nor does it destroy the family. By the time you get to the divorce stage, the marriage is already over, the hurt to both spouse and children is already done by separation. Divorce is only a stage which will allow one or both of the spouse a chance to future happiness should they wish to do so.
Is it better for society if people live together and even produce children outside marriage as is happening now or better that they have the option to be allowed to get married and form a legally recognised marriage with legitimate children.
The only reasons other than religion for preventing divorce after a legal separation is jealousy and spite - that is a human wrong.
Discard religion in this debate as divorce is a civil matter.
Joe Grima
Jul 30th 2010, 12:23
Your prejudices give the campaign for divorce the impetus, the power and speed it needs to become a living reality. You call people whose marriages have failed and who are living with new partners "pogguti". What right do you have to call ayone else names? How do I know what kind of life you yourself are leading so that I could find the right appellative for you? After all there must be hundreds of maried meen and women , if not thousands in this country who have mistresses or lovers in secret, who visit prostitutes or who have a fetish for young children? Does that make their lives more proper and more socially acceptable than those who are openly living with new partners and raising new families? You can dig your heels into the ground as much as you like . Mr Farrigia. Get the Bishops to give you a helping hand and then hide yourself somewhere as the divorce case goes forward in Malta's courts first. As the motor car dumped the horse and cart so will the likes of you disappear when divorce in Malta becomes a reality.Keep on writing., The pro-divorce lobby needs you. .
rgalea
Jul 30th 2010, 12:30
Catholic compassion oozes out of your comment.Your use of the term "pogguti" used in a derogatory fashion is quite an eye opener.
From what statistic do you deduce that cohabiting couples are the only people requesting divorce?
Now a practical scenario:
One of the spouses has suffered years of abuse and her/his partner has been finally locked away for good.
Should the other spouse not have the possibility of rebuilding her/his life?
About God....well, God seems to play by different rules depending on the culture you are born in.It's not a question of being cynical but of being objective.
Peter Korsten
Jul 30th 2010, 12:53
Your problem is that you think you can decide what's good for other people. You can't. If there's one wrong that must be eradicated, it's the idea held by certain people who feel that they must interfere and tell others what to do.
It's none of your business.
Jeremy J Camilleri
Jul 30th 2010, 13:35
J Farrugia..if there was ever a perfect example of someone who uttered statements so contradictory to Christ's teaching, that someone would be you.
I suggest you go and read the new testament. Your rhetorics have no place in a civil society, Catholic or otherwise.
Alison Bezzina
Jul 30th 2010, 10:27
In 2009, the Church almost doubled its percentage of granted annulments (Vs Civil Annulments) ....why do you think ha? check out the numbers here : http://www.alisonbezzina.com/
Fenech MD
Jul 30th 2010, 12:40
Alison, l-ewwel trid titghallem id-differenza bejn annullament u divorzju.
Annullament iz-zwieg qatt ma sar/mhux validu minhabba xi haga gravi f'xi hadd mill-mizzewwgin li qatt ma giet murija qabel iz-zwieg.
Divorzju - Iz-zwieg kien validu imma issa tkisser/spicca.
Alison ghalkemm naf li HADD jew talanqas hafna minn min jizzewweg ma jkollu intenzjoni li jkisser iz-zwieg tieghu, xorta nemmen li d-divorzju mhux ser jirranga l-affarijiet. Jien naf hafna separati li jghidulek li la ma rnexxiex l-ewwel zwieg ma jharsux aktar lejn zwieg. Jippreferu 'jpoggu' ghax jekk jinqala' xi haga, kulhadd telaq ghal rasu, bla qrati xejn.
Min jghid li z-zwieg huwa xi haga facli biss? Fih is-sabih u t-tajjeb tieghu, imma jekk veru temmen fih, tiggieled kwalunkwe intopp li ssib u fejn ma tasalx titlob l-ghajnuna. Dan bhal bniedem drogat; hawn hafna tghalim u ssib hafna jaqghu fil-vizzju tad-droga. Min jibda jghidlek nieqaf meta rrid, imma hadd ma jirnexxilu jaqta' dal-vizzju minghajr ghajnuna. L-istess iz-zwieg, flok naqtghu qalbna nfittxu l-ghajnuna.
Andrew Farrugia
Jul 30th 2010, 14:59
Yes we know that you have a blog where you do your scribbling and waffling; no need to constantly advertise your wares, honey.
Michel Camilleri
Jul 30th 2010, 10:17
It is mind boggling that a couple of young guys think they are doing a world of good by starting a Facebook group against divorce. Obviously if some break up is close to home...or suffering is involved under the same roof..perhaps these two heroes would think otherwise. Well they say it is a major response with 1500...just be careful though...Malta has a much larger population and why is it that all world allows divorce and only Malta and Philippines find it illegal? Common factor...both are predominantly Catholic. Here we go again mixing religion with government. When will we ever learn in this country?
D Vella
Jul 30th 2010, 11:02
They are victims of their indoctrination. They haven't been taught to think for themselves but simply to believe what they are taught.Who was it that said"Give me the child to the age of seven,and I'll show you the man"?.
rgalea
Jul 30th 2010, 10:07
For those nauseated by the anti divorce supported, here is a " yes to divorce in malta" group:
http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=235407928044&ref=search
IYou may also be interested in this group:
http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=235407928044&v=info&ref=search#!/group.php?gid=116037255081420&ref=mf
let the membership wars (crusades) begin :)
r ferriggi
Jul 30th 2010, 10:05
i do not know these two gentlemen and i do not have any interest in favor or against divorce.
i do not care.
but cannot these two gentlemen resist the temptation to KEEP out of ch issues and not try to ''look holy'' for a few measly votes?!?!?!
selfishness, greed for power has no limits.
mary lee cauchi
Jul 30th 2010, 10:04
Can't you see that whenever you make a front AGAINST something,you are actually making it stronger??
You should make a front IN FAVOUR of something,in this case,family and binding marriage,and you will see many more people joining...
Try to make POSITIVE affirmations,not NEGATIVE ones....I hope you understand my point..
J Farrugia
Jul 30th 2010, 10:25
l-iswed ghidlu dejjem iswed u l-abjad dejjem abjad. Mhemmx tan-nofs.
R. Pace
Jul 30th 2010, 11:38
Farrugia jien la jien miżżewweġ u anqas separat, allura la naf ir-realtajiet ta' zwieġ ħieni u wisq anqas id-dieqa ta' zwieg li mar ħazin.
Imma nassiguark li jekk l-Eżekuttiv jitfagħha fuqi biex nagħżel, nivvota favur sempliċiment biex nagħlaq ħalq il-Farrugiajiet u z-Zammitijiet ta' din il-gżira.
Qed tihem issa x'riedet tgħid Cauchi???? Hemm mod u mod kif l-iswed tgħidlu iswed u l-abjad tgħidlu abjad.
J Farrugia
Jul 30th 2010, 09:59
GOD DOES NOT WANT DIVORCE. What God has united let no human being destroy.
Ramon Casha
Jul 30th 2010, 11:05
If God comes over and tells us that in person, I'll take his views into consideration.
Adrian Cardona
Jul 30th 2010, 11:21
So don't divorce if you believe in God...and leave the rest of us in peace. Your prejudiced comments full of hatred at anyone who doesn't believe in your 'God' make anyone with a reasonable disposition weep in frustration.
J Farrugia
Jul 30th 2010, 09:58
So what? According to you dont these MPs have a right to join whatever group they want? Dont they have a right to be anti divorce? Dont they have a right to their opinions? Or does the times find fault with this anti divorce stand by these two MPs? What's the news value in this?
victor pulis
Jul 30th 2010, 19:29
I agree. They have a right to voice their opinion but they also have a duty to at least remember if they have joined a facebook group!! And another thing, you said that divorce destroys the family and hurts women and children. What does annullment do?
Anthony Farrugia
Jul 30th 2010, 09:48
Er, MP Franco Debono strikes again; he joins a Facebook group without remembering that he had done so. Or is it a Humpty Dumpty standing on a wall to see the way the cat will jump
Ramon Casha
Jul 30th 2010, 11:01
Another lapsus perhaps :)
Ernest Vella
Jul 30th 2010, 09:47
Hallu lil kulhadd jaghmel li jrid...issa lanqas fuq facebook ma jistghu jidhlu...Fejn hu il-Freedom of Thought u l-Freedom of Expression...id-dritt li tinghaqad fi grupp u d-dritt ta demokrazija kollha drittijiet tal-bniedem...18th, 19th, 20th u 21st
Pajjiz li nemmnu fi dritt ta l-espressjoni sakemm jaqbel ma l-agenda taghna...vera pajjiz tat-tielet dinja
Adrian Attard Trevisan
Jul 30th 2010, 09:46
"When contacted, Mr Camilleri said he had not expected such a “huge and fervent” response but always believed there was a silent majority against divorce which is afraid of making its voice heard"
Since when 1,500 members on a facebook group is a mjority ?
David Caruana
Jul 30th 2010, 10:31
That would be the day!
The Maltese pro-marijuana-legalisation group holds double that number!
Andre Cilia
Jul 30th 2010, 10:43
ask the PL...
A Mangion
Jul 30th 2010, 09:45
What's the problem with two MPs joining an anti-divorce group? Aren't we recently preaching about the importance of freedom of speech bla bla bla
I hope this article (and newspaper) is not already taking sides and has no intention of doing so in the future! This should be an open discussion and everyone (both in favour and against) should remember that we all make part of a society - our actions may affect others. Let us not be babies and have a mature discussion upon such a sensitive matter! Moreover, no one will take political advantage on divorce!
Vasilisa Brandenburg
Jul 30th 2010, 09:40
Well done to creators of the group. Divorce in Malta... Never!
God wills it !!!
Charles Sammut
Jul 30th 2010, 10:09
Who is "God"? A figment of Man's imagination and in whose name the most horrific crimes have been committed.
Nobody denies your right to believe what you will, but do not impose it on others. You can believe that the Earth is the centre of the Universe because that is what "God" used to want people to believe in the Galileo's time. Or that Man's evolution did not happen because that is what "God" used to insist on in Darwin's days.
"God" is also known to have changed his mind on various things according to the Old and the New Testament. Who knows whether he might change his mind again in the future?
Whatever your "God' might want, people will still get on with their lives and either separate and take new partners or not get married in the first place. We can choose to regulate that with divorce, or we can bury our heads in the sand and brag about an illusion called Malta Cattolicissima in the vain hope of pie in the sky.
A.Attard
Jul 30th 2010, 10:25
Charles chill out, he is not imposing nothing it is his right to believe what he wants.
“Looking up at the cross, I said six simple words, ‘What have I got to lose?’ Afterwards my whole life has changed. It’s been hard, but I wouldn’t change it for anything. Rather go my whole life believing that there is a God and find out there isn't than live my whole life thinking there isn't a God and then find out, when I die, that there is."[14]
Dave Mustaine
Charles Sammut
Jul 30th 2010, 10:36
@ A Attard
Your attitude sadly reflects widespread Maltese mentality, "majteswel". It is also how every gambler reasons. Majteswel niehu biljett tas-sooper fajf, x'ghandi x'nitlef?
A.Attard
Jul 30th 2010, 11:45
You are very wrong once again Charles
Am I saying those words ?... No so give us some space to breathe before judging.Afterall a ''majteswell'' mentality as you call it for a good reason is better then living a live in sin ax ''Xalabiebek'' .Yes we are here to live our life ,majteswell live it good and for others.
victor pulis
Jul 30th 2010, 14:20
A Attard would you change your way of life if you found out there was no God? Do you think that all those who don't believe in a god are living a sinful life? On the contrary, many are living an altruistic life because they are not expecting a reward after they die. If, when they die they do find themselves in front of a god I'm sure he would understand them. Of one thing I'm certain. They will not be accused of transgraetions done in his name.
martin saliba
Jul 30th 2010, 15:30
My god wants divorce. So are we now going to have fights between gods ?
A.Attard
Jul 30th 2010, 15:43
We do not judge who is sinfull Victor Pulis.We neither judge who is waiting for a reward or not, Start working volantary work Mr Pulis without getting paid, or you do want your reward after a months work? :) .
victor pulis
Jul 30th 2010, 19:14
Yes I get paid for my work for the simple reason that my family and I need food on the table. So your feeble comparison holds no water. Contrary to what you said there are persons on these comments who have stated that only catholics are destined for heaven. So they do judge.