Case for divorce already rejected by European Court of Human Rights
A 24-year-old judgment by the European Court of Human Rights may dampen lawyer Lynn Zahra’s hopes of getting the Strasbourg court to “force” Malta to introduce divorce since it was not deemed to be a human right.
Dr Zahra, who has a daughter from a 20-year relationship with former Labour minister Joe Grima, has said that lack of divorce denies her the right to get married and breaches her right to respect for family life. She argues that their family is not recognised as a legitimate unit, socially and legally.
Similar arguments were made in 1986 by a separated Irish man and his British partner with whom he had a child. Ireland had no divorce law at the time and the man argued this violated his human rights because he could not marry his partner with whom he built a family and, consequently, it breached his “right to respect for family life”.
The man had also claimed discrimination because Ireland recognised divorce decrees obtained in foreign courts. He could not obtain a divorce abroad because his estranged wife was also Irish and he had not been domiciled in a foreign country.
On all counts, the European Court turned down the claims by 16 votes to one, arguing that the couple could not “derive a right to divorce” from article 12 of the European Convention for the Protection of Human Rights, which spoke of the right to marry.
The Court also turned down the claim that the lack of a divorce law breached the couple’s right to respect for family life (article 8 of the convention). However, the Court did find a breach of this article in terms of the couple’s child, who was also a party to the case, because, under Irish law, she was considered to be illegitimate and, subsequently, denied certain rights enjoyed by other children.
Judge Giovanni Bonello, who sits on the European Court of Human Rights, said the non-legislation of divorce had not been challenged in the Court since the Johnston vs Ireland case.
Without entering into the merits of the case, Dr Zahra intends to institute against the Maltese government, he explained that when social conditions changed “it was quite possible for the court to have a different view”.
Judge Bonello said the decision of the Court would depend on which of two guiding principles it chose to give preference to when deciding the case.
“The first is the principle of European consensus. If the court, by its own investigation, finds that something has a strong European consensus it could apply the consensus rule.
“The second principle is the margin of appreciation. If the case was about sensitive issues of morality, such as divorce and abortion, the Court could say these matters are best decided by the domestic authorities,” Judge Bonello said.
Dr Zahra would first have to go to the local civil and constitutional courts before taking her case to Strasbourg, something she intends to do in October.
Human rights lawyer Therese Comodini Cachia explained that, if Dr Zahra simply argued that the lack of divorce in Malta was in violation of her right to family life, the court might be averse to rule in her favour. “The court has in the past been hesitant to impose upon a country to regulate its family matters in a way it does not want to,” she said.
However, she added, should Dr Zahra claim discrimination on the basis of marital status, then that could possibly work in her favour. In such a case, the court would hand down a financial remedy and expect that measures be taken to remove the discriminatory element. However, she said, all too often the Maltese government has argued that, although its position violated human rights, it had satisfied the judgement by simply paying the compensation.
Dr Comodini Cachia said judgements of the European Court and the national Constitutional Court were effectively implemented by measures that removed the violation such as by amending laws.
103 Comments
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Sabrina Borda
Jul 31st 2010, 18:26
Mr Ray Bezzina, further down the blog you told me that you do not pass judgment on anyone. You did exactly the opposite and sent us all to hell. Shame on you for judging people the way you do as if you really believe you have the competence when the opposite is now proof !!!!
I have not swallowed the Devil's poison at all whereas you seem addicted to it and tried to pass it on to me. Shocking !!! condemning innocent people the way you do.
Raymond Bezzina
Aug 1st 2010, 10:33
@ Sabrina Borda
Ms. Borda,
I have addressed my comment to you, to identify that I am replying to your
previous comments, especially to the one which comes right beneath that
of Mr. Giov. DeMartino.
May I draw your attention that my comment ( of which you have felt offended )
is written in the plural.
My middle paragraph which begins "When a person does not repent from sin......."
is also in the plural.
1. Would you kindly indicate to me where I did not speak the truth ?
2. And would you also tell me, which part of my comment indicates
that I sent people to hell ?
3. And where did I condemn innocent people ?
Sabrina Borda
Aug 2nd 2010, 09:28
Mr Bezzina, you addressed your blog to me. When it is to the general public it is still an insult. You are trying to push on people to REPENT. Your quote is; "When a person does not repent from sin the evil practices would carry him/her to commit more harsher and brutal evils". This is insane to read.
First of all this is a discussion on divorce not Catholic priests that molest children. Secondly for anybody this is an insult. Not even priests preach like this anymore because there are of course also many good intelligent priests who are not crazy and well out of the dark ages.
How strange to read these hideous words. This tactic of yours won't work for those who must have divorce in Malta like the Europeans who are not evil sinners through divorced, yet as the good Christian you portray to be, maybe you should pray for these people in 'plural' not in singular to be happy and not warn them of hell to come. Do not pray or me you scare me. Suffering here reading your blog is more than hell enough. But thanks for the WARNINGS of DAMNATION
Raymond Bezzina
Aug 2nd 2010, 11:35
@ Sabrina Borda
Ms. Borda,
My comment (i.e. the one by which you felt offended) applies to everyone,
i.e. including myself, and I do not feel offended at all by it, maybe this is so
simply because I do my best not to deny the truth.
I believe that those who feel insulted by that comment, are those who try
to deny the truth. Now, since you also believe, as I do, that there are many good
intelligent priests, ( and here I am referring to Roman Catholic priests ),
I suggest that you just print my comment ( i.e. the one in which you have felt
offended ), and take it to one of these priests to give you his advice about it.
After you do this, you can always refer to this site to let me know by the
outcome, if you feel to do so, and if whatever he tells you would not be
confidential.
Sabrina Borda
Aug 4th 2010, 20:36
I will not follow any instructions from you Mr Bezzina. No more trash innuendos and insane remarks please.
GiovDeMartino@ Grech
Jul 31st 2010, 15:30
The church HAS A RIGHT to say what she thinks is right. If you are one of the fold and do not agree, you are free to quit. If you are one of those who so very happy to declare that they do not belong to the cath. religion...then it is not your business what the church says. One thing is certain: the church CANNOT introduce divorce. Nor can it keep it away. It can only explain its position and then it is up to the individual to decide. But the church has no legislative power. It is sp simple profs.
Chris Reiff
Jul 31st 2010, 09:36
@Raymond Bezzina "What you did not mention in your comment is, that divorce would give
the abuser other opportunities, to repeat the abuse on other future
spouses and / or children."
You can't be serious. Do you want the spouse to remain married to the abuser, just so that the abuser can't harm anyone else? What kind of reasoning is this? The abuser must be reported to the police and arrested, and the spouse should get a divorce, so that s/he can start a new life. Or is that too much to ask for in this hellhole of a Catholic country?
Raymond Bezzina
Aug 1st 2010, 11:08
@ Chris Reiff
Mr. Reiff,
The answer to your questions has already been given in that same comment,
from which you have picked up a piece of it.
In that comment I said that : " Where there is abuse of the spouse there is the
separation process, but not divorce. Divorce is not the right solution to abused
persons ".
Has this answer skipped your attention ?
saviour falzon
Jul 31st 2010, 08:22
I feel a free man but than an organization like the church or the government trying to keep me in the middle ages when they used to burn ( so called witches) Its not tolerable- its not to agree or not to agree with divorce- all the world have Divorce- just Malta and unfortunately Philippines-Why all this debate talking about divorce? I don't care what an organization like the church says- I think with my mind! the church has many to show and tells about its history ;-) Hypocrisy is in it's high level here unfortunately - Freedom to live freedom to choose -in everything there is right and wrong-
Philip B Cortis
Jul 31st 2010, 09:28
While you do have a point in your argument if it's pointed to the Malta Authorities. However, I would not agree with you if it's pointed to other bodies like the church (well, by church I think you were referring to the roman catholic cause we also have other churches in Malta, both christian and non-christian) or pressure groups (perhaps an anti-divorce groups). You are free to join or not join any group or church that is coherent / not coherent with your views. It's like being a member of a club - if you don't agree with there "rules", you are not bind to stay member. This is the situation in all countries in the world except Malta and Philippines. The state allows Divorce. The roman catholic church don't allow it. Those that decide to follow the Roman Catholic teachings in full, then they will not divorce. Those that want to divorce, can do so.
Democracy is built by multiple people / groups putting forward their different views & then the parliament decides accordingly. Perhaps, sometime after the next election, democracy will be done (although late)
PS - I'm pro state divorce, done sensibly
F J Brincat
Jul 31st 2010, 03:42
@ Ray Bezzina
"Divorce legislation would give an abuser the right, to abuse new spouses
and / or their children"
They can still be married and living under the same roof and the spouse and children might be abused. So marriage can turn into a life sentence according to you.
"Divorce only makes a bad situation worse."
Hmmm..no, not so simple. Need to expand on that a bit more.
"Divorce gives one the right to break numerous families."
Isn't this like the first one? You keep repeating yourself or what? Tell me about those who should be married and loyal to their partner, but instead, they aren't loyal at all.
"Therefore divorce is not the solution to failed marriages."
Yes I keep reading and hearing this and "let us find the solution to strengthen marriages" is another popular one.
Well? What is this solution to a broken marriage? What do you do when two people fear, hate and distrust each other? What do you do then?
Raymond Bezzina
Jul 31st 2010, 10:57
@ FJ Brincat
Mr. Brincat,
With regards to your first difficulty, my answer is 'separation ' and not 'divorce'.
By divorce, one person can abuse and break numerous families, hence the
negative multiplier effect on society.
Regarding your second difficulty, where you asked me to expand a bit more:
For an answer, all you have to do is to look at countries where divorce is legal,
and see the results regarding cohabitation and marriage breakdown.
Regarding your third difficulty. Here I ask you, what do you mean by the words
" those who should be married". What do you mean by 'should'?
Regarding your fourth difficulty, about the solution to strengthen marriages, first
I need to know whether you are also a Roman Catholic or not.
H Zammit
Jul 31st 2010, 16:46
For your last question the answer is separate.
simon cutajar
Jul 30th 2010, 21:55
WE WANT DIVORCE TO BE INTRODUCED AS SOON AS POSIBLE , NO MATTER WHAT !
Philip B Cortis
Jul 31st 2010, 09:29
Sure - but it has to be done sensibly
H Zammit
Jul 31st 2010, 16:44
WHY?
Joe Fenech
Jul 30th 2010, 21:38
This is not a matter of rights but common sense: everything in the universe has an opposite, even marriage!
Lets focus on the right things:
Support from social service and child experts to children to avoid depression and trauma.
All the rest is nonsense!
M. Grech
Jul 30th 2010, 20:10
@ DeMartino......What the church has to do with the introduction of divorce. Well for starters its trying to impose its beliefs onto others not belonging or practicing its faith, besides telling the rest of the nations, non catholics included, that only its views are right, the rest are of a lesser god. So please! why don't the local church stick to its flock and leave the rest alone.
H Zammit
Jul 30th 2010, 18:02
All this talk of divorce, why marry anyway? I wish we can do the same with property contracts and any other type of contract for that matter. Some argued that if you don't want divorce just shut up, simply don't use no one is forcing to use it. Similarly I say to them if you don't want to cancel (divorce) a contract no one is forcing you simply don't use but I don't care I am going to use the option of cancelling a contract.
GiovDeMartino@ Sabrina Borda
Jul 30th 2010, 15:44
Do you mind telling me what the church has to do with the introduction of divorce?
GiovDeMartino
Jul 30th 2010, 14:59
I am rather stupid and I would like to have a simple answer. Who can introduce divorce? The government or the Church? A simple answer and no beating about the bush pl.
Sabrina Borda
Jul 30th 2010, 16:37
No I do not believe you are stupid so do not call yourself that.
I do believe that deep down you know the answer to your question...so without beating around the bush you already know your formed opinions.
We all know the truth. The difference is that people have different interpretations of it due to either doctrine or their own opinions and lifestyle choice. Either way, people should be free to choose what is right for them personally, therefor no church or politician must decide what is right for you on a personal level, each individual must have the right to choose ones own journeys in life.
Raymond Bezzina
Jul 30th 2010, 18:42
@ Sabrina Borda Ms. Borda, Those who are in favour of abortion, would say the same as what you have said in your last sentence. They would use that excuse to slaughter their innocent and defenceless child in their own womb.
Sabrina Borda
Jul 30th 2010, 20:52
@ Mr Raymond Bezzina. You are right, it may be so if that is what they want to argue. Yet though what we are talking about here is to do with divorce. I personally do not agree with abortion but I cannot keep anyone from going abroad to have one and it is happening anyway because it is their individual choice.
Here in the case of divorce one cannot just jump onto a flight out of Malta somewhere and get one.
Joe Fenech
Jul 30th 2010, 23:01
Giov De Martino:
I wouldn't expect the church to introduce divorce. It has its own dictum and people who went through a church wedding need to lump it or else ask for an annullment (I don't know in what way that differs to a divorce!).
The government has no choice but introduce divorce.
What we need to think of is the support given to children by social/children services and carers so trauma and depression are avoided.
Raymond Bezzina
Jul 31st 2010, 08:16
@ Sabrina Borda
Ms. Borda,
Without passing judgement on anyone, I believe that those who think that they
have found a better idea than God about how to live their life, are those who have
already fallen prey to the devil's snares and deceit, and in this condition, they will
swallow the devil's poison in succession, to their own detrement, and to others.
When a person does not repent from sin, the evil practices would carry him/her
to commit more harsher and brutal evils.
If one reflects well, one would realize that divorce is detremental to society, in which
we all form part of, therefore we should all be against divorce. Otherwise, I strongly
believe that if divorce is introduced, abortion would follow; because evil begets evil.
Charles Grixti
Jul 31st 2010, 14:01
GiovDeMartino
Only the State can introduce divorce. It is a civil matter and therefore falls under civil law. The Church in Malta is meddling where it shouldn't. I live abroad and divorce has been availabel for tens of decades and have NEVER heard of any Archbishop, bishop or priest campaigning against Divorce. In fact, the Civil Law of Divorce is the law of the land in as far as dissolution of Marriages goes, and in fact, the Catholic Church here first makes sure that a couple are LEGALLY divorced before it accepts their application for a Church Annulment. It is really simple to understand if you think about it - with all religions about - Catholic, Protestants, Hindu, Muslims, Buddhists etc, it cannot make sense that each of these religions' wedding ceremonies have any legal standing - they are just private religious celebrations each according to their faiths. It is only the State that legally binds and has Divorce to legally dissolve. In other words, no religion can trump the Laws of the Land.
Malta's case is an anomaly, a sort of mini-Shariah, where the RC Church' s annulments have been given the status of Law of the Land!!!
David Caruana
Jul 31st 2010, 18:46
GiovDeMartino, you are surely entitled to an opinion like everyone else, but please keep in mind that for some of us, you are so far from the truth
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Rwioe1SGkQ&feature=player_embedded
Joe Xuereb
Jul 30th 2010, 13:21
Of course life isn't 'cushy' in that sense. But what could be cushier than believing you are going to live forever? Now THAT is a cushy number. And live in hope (and die in sorrow, as we say in Maltese?). And you believe because he said so. You mean somebody said that he said so. The source and the time has to be taken into consideration you know! I would rather not live in hope, I would rather live with humility (as opposed to the arrogance of wanting to live forever) and humility - what christ is supposed to stand for, paradoxically - means I treat myself gently, and my fellow men gently, and not expect a reward for my efforts. To gauge a person's goodness, see him/her be charitable to a fellow human being who can never repay (so it's altruistic, a rare trait) and certainly no reward from 'above'. More prosaically, we say 'assess a person's worth by observing the way s/he treats animals. Animals give nothing back but a decent person who treats them well proves his decency. It's a hard act to follow. In Malta particularly. Where it's more like dog eat dog.
Marianna Galea Xuereb
Jul 30th 2010, 12:48
Dr. Zahra and partner (and respective spouses if inclined to co-operate) are sufficiently well-off to be able to emulate what Sophia Loren, Giuliana Fiastri and the late Carlo Ponti did way back in 1966 (and what many others have done since), namely live long enough in another European country to obtain citizenship and an eventual perfectly legal divorce from that country.
Introduction of divorce in the Maltese Islands should be a direct result of what Maltese citizens decide in a referendum and not an imposition by the European Court of Human Rights. Divorce should be introduced locally only when the local culture is ready for it i.e. when the majority of Maltese citizens believe that it ought to be introduced.
Personally, I hope that the European Court of Human Rights will impose a referendum about divorce in the Maltese Islands but not impose divorce law legislation outright.
Dr. Zahra ‘s argument that her family isn’t recognised as a legitimate unit, socially and legally is valid. However, she ought to keep in mind that although legislation can force legal recognition down everyone’s throat it can never forcibly impose personal, mental, social recognition by each and every citizen.
S. Attard
Jul 30th 2010, 11:56
U kemm hawn expert ta teologija qed nghid. Qatt ma rajt daqshekk kitbiet mill-bibbja. Tafu li taqra kemm taqra u tistudja kemm tistudja fl-ahhar mill-ahhar jekk mhux kapaci tapplikah tkun hlejt iz-zmien? L-istess dawn in-nies hlew tant hin jikkupjaw mill-bibbja u nilghab kemm ghandi flus li huma l-ewwel nies li ma jghixux dak li jipprofessaw. Ibda mill-kummenti taghhom stess. Ma jridux id-divorzju ghax semplicement ma jimpurtahhomx mit-tbatija ta haddiehor u min dak li jista jghinu ifiq. Ma nahsibx li kristu qal x'imkien hekk jew ghallem biex tiggudikaw u tikkundannaw lil min ma jaqbilx maghkom.
Hafna paroli vojt ghal xejn. Semplici intom tohdux divorzju qas jekk tigu bzonnu, imma haddiehor ghandu dritt. Madwarkom hawn is-sigaretti legali u hafna jpejpu, imma hadd ma jamillek pistola ma rasek u jgelek tpejjep. Tpejjep jekk trid int u l-istess l-argument tad-divorzju tuzah jekk trid int.
Michael Catania
Jul 30th 2010, 11:26
I WONDER HOW MAY OF THOSE OPPOSING DIVOCE IM MALTA PRACTICE ARTIFICIAL BIRTH CONTROL WHICH TOTALLY OPPOSED BY THE CHURCH.
D. Azzopardi
Jul 30th 2010, 12:27
Le hi, ahna l'insara meta naghmlu il-babies, inkunu safjin u puri f'ghemilna. Wara ninhaslu u imoru inqerru ghax inkella imorru dritt ghal infern:P
Sabrina Borda
Jul 30th 2010, 09:18
The Church in Malta to impinge their hold on power.....are still burning people at the stake figuratively speaking, but literally in a feeling that is very painful all those innocent people who merely need a divorce, it is these innocent people like Dr Lynn Zahra who should be considered on the way to Martyrdom if the European Court does not free her form this trap.
George Vella
Jul 30th 2010, 04:06
To All
Please remember one crucial point about divorce in Malta. Marriage, since olden times had been recognized in every country as stability to society and a benefit to the community no matter the creed. Yet this society and those who manage it knew that difficulties in married life can crop up, sometimes very grievous. So this same society enacted other rules to counter these grievances. The worst one of them was the easy way out to introduce divorce. This cut short the problem yet creating many others while not solving it.
So if you have an illegitimate offspring outside marriage he/she gets all social benefits and both culprits can make a will to this offspring and still be heir. If you get a separation you can choose to live with another partner and the law does not intervene. No human can judge you, only God does, and it is up to you. It is the same if you get a divorce and remarry, only God is your judge. So it is the same and there is no need of any fuss. In this world we are free, but not in the other. No court is good enough to judge.
Joseph Carmel Chetcuti
Jul 31st 2010, 01:05
I would prefer to be judged by God than George Vella any time. What a simplistic version of history. Divorce is neither a case against marriage nor against stability in society. Why does Malta breed sio many clowns? And what proof does Vella have of the other world in which, as he says, we are not free. That being the case, I do not want to go to the other world. Absolute banality.
Joseph Carmel Chetcuti
Jul 30th 2010, 01:46
Human rights is a fluid concept and today's emphasis on these rights is far stronger than it was two decades ago. It is time for all Maltese to respect the right of individuals to organise their lives as they please and not necessarily in accordance with what some see as the prevailing morality. Incidentally the overriding mores in Malta is to make money. The Almighty euro is indeed the God of the Maltese especially those among them who pretend to be God's representatives on earth. It is indeed a very long time that Malta was the altar of the Mediterranean and please do not come up with any nonsense of the islands being those of St Paul.
Emma Xerri
Jul 30th 2010, 00:01
Oh, starting to play the 'psychological game' with Dr. Lynn Zahra are we?
Dr. Zahra, do not be fooled by these cheap tactics, and boost yourself for many more to come,but at the end, right will win out, always.
And yes, ladies and gentlemen, if you know what is good for you, move away from the 'local' Church and join the Italian one (the one that has no problems with divorce), as one of the commentators below has rightly suggested.
Marianna Galea Xuereb
Jul 29th 2010, 23:30
All those who are solely relying on the bible to reason out what should or should not be appropriate in marital and divorce matters ought to keep in mind that according to the bible – or at least the Old Testament - a man was allowed to marry several women (as well as keep several concubines) but if any of those married woman so much as desired another partner, they were considered to be committing adultery! Similar reasoning is still the current norm in fundamentalist Muslim countries as well as among Mormon fundamentalists, mostly in the western United States, Canada, and Mexico, even though it is technically illegal in the latter three countries.
Personally I have nothing against plural marriages and relationships so long as all the adults concerned know exactly what is going on and none of the consenting adults are being pressured into the situation and so long as the welfare of any resulting offspring is given priority. But I am totally against any situation where women are given less rights and opportunities just because they are women.
Marianna Galea Xuereb
Jul 29th 2010, 23:02
@Raymond Bezzina in reply to Lydia Pace Workman
“..divorce would give the abuser other opportunities, to repeat the abuse on other future
spouses and / or children.” By the same yardstick an abused engaged partner should not even call off the wedding because this would give the abuser an opportunity to repeat the abuse on other fiancé/fiancées. As far as I am concerned spouse/partner abusers should be outed and there should even be a publicly accessible register for such matters, just as there should be a publicly accessible register for child abuser and sex offenders, fraudsters etc.
”Divorce only makes a bad situation worse, therefore it must not be legalized.” Wrong again. Divorce need not make a bad situation worse any more than a separation can do.
Personally I am not against divorce if there are no children involved. Neither am I against divorce if the children’s needs are seriously taken into account. From my own observations in Malta, even when a separation is handled by Maltese courts and professional lawyers, counselors etc. the children’s needs are generally still not being adequately taken into account.
Sabrina Borda
Jul 29th 2010, 20:53
How can a case for divorce be rejected by any court if it has not even been presented yet?
I'm sure it easier to change ones religion to get a divorce. Quite honestly I don't care for "Maltese religion"... that is what it has become. A Roman Catholic in Italy is better off in having the freedom of choice than a Maltese Catholic so this makes us look retarded and deprived, that's what the European court should understand. We cannot call ourselves Roman Catholics anymore because the Maltese Church have been giving it a twist of their own. That should be a good reason enough to move away it.
I sincerely WISH the European court does not keep Dr Lynn Zahra from living unlike any other European decent ladies and that she wins back what is hers, her dignity.
Come on Europe support her !!!
jane camilleri haber
Jul 29th 2010, 20:20
@joe xuereb. thabks for giving me the opportunity ti profess my faith. so I answer short and sweet as you suggested., I believe because He said so. as to the cushy thing. no sir life is far from cushy., it just has a meaning and is continually accompanied by hope.
Sabrina Borda
Jul 30th 2010, 08:52
I do not envy the stance of the way some people; "believe because 'He' said so". Who is this 'He who spoke words to man'. And how come 'He' gave us so many varied religions if 'HE' is the Almighty while the whole world looks like one big mess thanks to religions? People always fighting over there beliefs for power. This is not God it is Mans doing. Man created this mess and Man wrote the bible. Inspirations happen.
Of course it is entirely up to them how to live their own life so I say live and let live, we all have our own way, but for God's sake why do some people not ask the big questions of life to find the truth?.... Because they are happy to keep it as limited as possible and as safe as they want to feel, its just easier to go with the flow of blind faith like the flock are expected to be because that's how the Maltese church have always enforced it, so unquestioning people turn out to be meek. The truth is out there, away from distracting man made religions.
John Farrugia
Jul 29th 2010, 19:38
I wonder then. As a European citzen are the rights of people who want divorce being violated? I mean the governments all over Europe make sure that for example (from the top of my head) people with a disability are given the same opportunities in employment and access to public places etc etc Failure to provide and cater for their needs is considered a violation of human rights. Rightly so too. There are so many other issues for which human rights can be addressed too and which are already being taken care of. I m sure if divorce was a tax issue our government would have adopted it and the EU forced and implemented it immediately human rights or not.
Tommy Vella
Jul 29th 2010, 18:17
@ Joseph Calleja.
"Malta is the only country in the EU which does not allow divorce, does't that tell you something?". The majority is not always right. There have been many instances in the history of man when the minority was proved right.
Joseph Calleja
Jul 29th 2010, 19:02
If you really believe that, I own an igloo in the middle of the Sahara Desert I would like to sell you.
M Saliba
Jul 29th 2010, 17:50
I don't remember who said it but it makes sense: The separation of church and state is basic to preserving the integrity of both religion and democracy.
Tommy Vella
Jul 29th 2010, 17:38
The majority is not always right. There were many instances in the history of man when a minority was proved right.
PGatt
Jul 30th 2010, 08:47
And since Maltese "catholics" claim that the majority of the Maltese are catholic, I'll let you draw your own conclusions based on your statement.
Dr. John Zammit
Jul 29th 2010, 17:23
Dr. Lynn Zahra keep strong and going, don't listen to those who try to dishearten you. 24 years ago is a long time and many laws have been changed and are being changed to come up to date with today's situations.
Dr Joe Brincat
Jul 29th 2010, 20:03
I sort of understood that you were referring to my comment. I may be wrong. What I quoted come from a judgment of 1month 5 days ago (24/6/2010) Schalk et v Austria (para 62) :"ECHR 24/6/2010 : Schalke v Austria : "62. In that connection the Court observes that marriage has deep-rooted social and cultural connotations which may differ largely from one society to another. The Court reiterates that it must not rush to substitute its own judgment in place of that of the national authorities, who are best placed to assess and respond to the needs of society".
Is this 24 years old ? Secondly there is the message that it is the responsibility of State Parliaments to legislate in this field.
Joseph Calleja
Jul 29th 2010, 16:52
" Judge Giovanni Bonello, who sits on the European Court of Human Rights, said the non-legislation of divorce had not been challenged in the Court since the Johnston vs Ireland case." Maybe it's about time the non legislation of divorce is challenged again and Dr. Lynn Zahra intends to do so. We can't stay living in the dark ages. Many laws have changed in the last 24 years and this one will too. Malta is the only country in the EU which does not allow divorce, does't that tell you something? Is Malta right and the rest of the EU wrong? Or is Malta still under the powers and mercy of the Catholic church? The church has every right to deny divorce but the state (the government) has the right to ensure that divorce is there for anyone who needs it. We have to separate the church from state and let the church do what is best for the soul and the state do what is best for it's people. Nobody is forcing anybody to get a divorce but it should be available to any who wants it. I am confident that Dr Zahra will win her case.
Raymond Bezzina
Jul 29th 2010, 18:18
@ Joseph Calleja,
You said that : ' Nobody is forcing anybody to get a divorce but it should be
available to any who wants it '.
I strongly believe that many of those who are in favour of divorce, would later
on use the above same argument with regards to abortion; only this time they
would insert the word abortion instead of the word divorce. And the main reason
for this, is that evil generates other evil.
Therefore, divorce should not be legalized.
Joseph Calleja
Jul 29th 2010, 19:17
First of all we are talking about two separate things and one has nothing to do with the other. The majority of people who want divorce are against abortion. Most people who opt for divorce is because sometimes marriages fail. Divorce can stop the wife abuse, the child abuse and the man or women cheating on their spouses. You can see for yourself instead of divorce men and women in Malta are opting for cohabitation. These are facts Mr Bezzina. You are listening to the holier than thou fantasy stories. Open your eye and see.
E Camilleri
Jul 29th 2010, 20:26
@ Joseph Calleja
"Divorce can stop the wife abuse, the child abuse and the man or women cheating on their spouses." Kindly mention one country that has managed to eradicate, or at least significantly reduce these thanks to divorce.
"You can see for yourself instead of divorce men and women in Malta are opting for cohabitation. These are facts Mr Bezzina." Actually, Mr. Calleja, statistics show that cohabitation increases exponentially when divorce laws are liberalised. Therefore not only does divorce not manage to provide the solution, but it actually worsens the problem. These are the facts Mr. Calleja.
Divorce is not some fool-proof solution to marriage problems. Just look at other societies that have legalised divorce - what have they solved? Absolutely nothing. Worse, they ended up with greater social problems than they had before! Our nation is blessed not have divorce. Let's look for better solutions to help marriages, rather than legalise their destruction.
Raymond Bezzina
Jul 29th 2010, 22:14
@ Joseph Calleja,
Regarding your first sentence; although divorce and abortion are two
separate matters, the mentality of many is not : evil generates more evil.
You said that, 'Divorce can stop the wife abuse, the child abuse and the
man or woman cheating on their spouses '. The abuse will only stop
from one spouse, but it would give the abuser other chances to repeat
the violence on other future spouses and / or children, therefore in such cases
the solution would be separation and not divorce.
Mr. Calleja, and if you think that these are my fantasy stories; just look at other
countries, and you will discover that where divorce is legal, abortion followed,
in some way or another.
Those who reject God's graces and guidance, will undoubtedly fall into the devil's
snares and deceit.
Dr Joe Brincat
Jul 29th 2010, 16:43
The Convention (Art 12) and the EU Charter (Art 9) both refer back to national law on questions of marriage. The Court would intervene if two (male and female) are denied the right to marry. Two cases this year found for prison inmate in Poland who were not allowed to marry.
Art 8 (right to family and private life) has extended the interpretation from the traditional to de facto unions, including those of homosexuals. The Court may interpret Art 8 even whether the local measures are necessary in a democratic society, proportionate etc. But it stops from granting the right to the marriage ceremony. Under Art 8 even a stable engagement is covered. But not the marriage ceremony, the "special law" of Art 12.
ECHR 24/6/2010 : Schalke v Austria : "62. In that connection the Court observes that marriage has deep-rooted social and cultural connotations which may differ largely from one society to another. The Court reiterates that it must not rush to substitute its own judgment in place of that of the national authorities, who are best placed to assess and respond to the needs of society
Joseph Calleja
Jul 29th 2010, 16:24
@ Joe Zammit et al. Since you are always quoting the bible here is another quote. " Simon ( who was later named Peter) was thus married, and, according to Clement of Alexandria (Stromata, III, vi, ed. Dindorf, II, 276), had children. So St Peter according to the bible was a married man with a wife and kids and yet Jesus told St Peter to forsake his wife and kids and follow him and he will make him a fisher of men ". Christ told Peter to abandon his wife and kids. So it's OK to abandon your wife and kids for religious reasons but it's NOT OK to seek a divorce to get away from an abusive husband or from a bad marriage? Can't have it both ways. Divorce is not a right but a choice and that choice should be left up to the married couple because only they know the consequences. ( he who stirs the pot knows what's in it.) Mr Zammit if you are so death set against divorce why don't you and your followers start talking to the abused wives, the abused kids and those who are caught in a never ending web?
Alex Ciantar
Jul 29th 2010, 20:25
Adding to what Mr Calleja has said ..............so a priest or a nun can divorce the church whenever they please but the common person cannot seek a divorce from a bad and broken down marriage?
I leave the conclusion to whoever!!!
Joe Xuereb
Jul 29th 2010, 16:17
@ Jane Camilleri Haber. You obviously have rock-solid proof that eternal life is a watertight fact. I wish I shared your staunch belief, then my life too would be a cushy number. Could you please tell me how you KNOW that there is an everlasting life, and a blissful one at that? It's said that the best perfumes come in smal phials. So you can tell me - and the world - in just a few words. Pearls of wisdom kinda thing. Go on! What have you got to lose.
Alex Ciantar
Jul 29th 2010, 16:01
Well done Dr. Lynn Zahra you are doing a great service to your country and fellow citizens. I wish you the best of luck and hope for success.
I need not go into more detail as plenty has been said but with introduction of divorce a lot of family (yes families with or without marriage documentation) will have the opportunity to remarry and so will have a second chance to start to living a life with all the benefits, right, and respect t they deserve.
JANE CAMILLERI HABER
Jul 29th 2010, 15:23
@ Lydia Pace WORKMAN
MATTHEW CH 19 V 1-9. @ mARIA aZOPPARDI WHO IS LOSING VOTES IN THE END? THE CHURCH? SINCE WHEN THE CHURCH BALANCES ITS TEACHING AGAINST THE NUMBER OF MEMBERS IT LOSES OR GAINS. WHEN THE DISCIPLES SAW THAT MANY OF jESUS'S FOLLOWERS WERE LEAVING HIM ON ACCOUNT OF hIS TEACHINGS. HE JUST ANSWERED:' WHY DON'T YOU LEAVE AS WELL?' TO WHICH THEY REPLIED: ' WHERE SHALL WE GO lORD? YOU ALONE HAVE GOT THE WORDS OF ETERNAL LIFE'
Jean Azzopardi
Jul 29th 2010, 16:18
I congratulate you for knowing your bible well. Now please learn how to use a keyboard.
Paul Barrett
Jul 29th 2010, 16:23
What on earth has your comment got to do with civil marriage and the legal dissolving of a civil contract.
It is accepted that the Roman Catholic Church forbids and does not recognize divorce and all those that follow these teachings are perfectly entitled to live by that should they wish to.
However, religion is personal as well as voluntary and in a secular state, the laws of a particular religion should not be applied to those that do not wish to follow them. Additionally, those that make the laws should do so in the interest of good governance as well as social justice and not be threatened with "hell and damnation" .
There is a social need to do something to rectify and legalise the position of families living in a state of limbo as well as removing the stigma from the innocent children born out of wedlock.
Divorce will not cure every problem but it will allow at least some relief to the current pressure of what is basically an ever increasing social disaster.
Alex Tonna
Jul 29th 2010, 14:58
Dear Dr. Lynn Zahra,
Do not let selfish people dampen your resolve. Most of the "Against Clan" are the classic example ot the "Dog in the Manger" syndrome.
"IF i WILL NOT EAT IT, THEN NO ONE ELSE WILL !! - very Christian don't you think?
There are thousands out there that need this sort of initiative so please keep up the good work.
Lydia Pace Workman
Jul 29th 2010, 14:40
Could someone please direct me to the part in the bible that states divorce is forbidden?
Emanuel Farrugia
Jul 29th 2010, 14:32
@ Joe Zammit ; tell it to the Hon. Jeffry Pullicino Orlando. Tell him also that the law on cohabitation which was in the PN electoral programme and which is about to be presented in Parliament is against God's will just as much as Divorce. You can also start a crusade against cohabitation.
Carmelo Aquilina
Jul 29th 2010, 14:08
Judge Giovanni Bonello.....explained that when social conditions changed “it was quite possible for the court to have a different view”.
This says it all... it is surely time for European Court of Human Rights to cxome to the rescue when the political parties are scared of losing the votes of Joe Zammits and leave many people in misery and legal limbo.... Courage Lynn Zahra you may win your case and make history !
Gerard Cassar
Jul 29th 2010, 13:40
The world has gone back to the time when God allowed divorce. So what should be done? What the authorities Civil and Church are waiting for?
D Vella
Jul 29th 2010, 13:27
"You are a victim of the rules you live by"
d. borg
Jul 29th 2010, 12:43
I can't understand why Dr Gonzi is letting this issue develop into such a complicated matter. Can't he follow ALL the other European countries and introduce divorce legislation for those who want or better still, need it. I'm sure that those who are against it will definitely not make use of it, come what may. So what's the problem?
Karl Consiglio
Jul 29th 2010, 12:39
If the rest of the world has the option of divorce and we don't, then we are being denied something here, so yes its a right.
Joe Xuereb
Jul 29th 2010, 12:38
In theory, Malta is a democracy, a secular one at that. But the Church (and Joe Zammit) have a 'powerful' card which they use to the hilt. Which verily, turns democraic secularism on its headDon't do what I say and go to hell. Do what I say and go to heaven. Even intelligent MPs and PMs are beholden to these two rules. Because nobody likes to have their finger burnt. Never mind an eternal roasting of much more delicate body parts. Wow!! what a bind! Talk about being strapped over a barrel with not a lick of spittle in sight.
Can I re-baptise myself for just a coupla minutes, to pray for Lynn? Please?! Nah!! 'twouldn't work.
Josephine Bugeja
Jul 29th 2010, 12:33
@Joe Zammit: rights are not a concession given by the European Convention on Human Rights or the Universal Declaration of Human Rights. Divorce was enacted in England in 1857, long before any of these conventions came into existence. The fact that all the countries of the world, except tiny Malta, give the right to divorce to their citizens is enough to show that it is recognized as a universal right. Why people like you insist on denying a right to those who want to use is difficult to fathom. Unless, that is, you want to impose on others your religious beliefs as was done in the time of the Inquisition. You can continue ticking away on your computer but divorce will have to come just as civil marriage came and people like you were against it. If you think you have some moral duty to write against divorce, forget it. Your position is ethically wrong. All you want to do, it seems to me, is gain brownie points to heaven by riding on our backs. It is ultimately self-interest that drives you to do it and, if that is what your religion teaches, then I have gravely misunderstood it.
M.Camilleri
Jul 29th 2010, 12:04
24 years?? Courts overturn judgements from year to year... I would call a 24 yr old judgement, one fixed in stone.
M.Camilleri
Jul 29th 2010, 12:38
.. I mean, I wouldn't call it fixed in stone !
Maria Azzopardi
Jul 29th 2010, 12:00
divorce is not a right but a choice.. and Maltese deserve to have the choice to divorce if they wish. the church needs to realize that by keeping it away, they are losing votes in the end.
Josephine Bugeja
Jul 29th 2010, 11:29
History will judge these persons fighting for the universally-recognized right to divorce, in whichever way they do it, in the same way it judges suffragettes and civil rights activists in the US, namely, as heroes. It is those opposing divorce who will be judged by history as obscurantist reactionaries oblivious to the anguish suffered by others. Divorce will come inevitably, sooner or later, but people's lives will be wrecked until such time as it does and untold misery will continue to be caused to those caught in the interim. People's lives are short, it is already too late for many who would have wished to divorce and remarry and, while they endure their suffering, they have no one to blame except the legislators who fail to enact what people have a right to. Those who have the power to enact a divorce law must live with the thought that they are playing with people's lives for their own ends. All the effects of divorce already exist in our society under the name of separation. Divorce will change nothing except giving the right to a new beginning and the hope of a new happiness.
Paul Barrett
Jul 29th 2010, 11:52
Very well said, especially:
Divorce will change nothing except giving the right to a new beginning and the hope of a new happiness.
Raymond Bezzina
Jul 29th 2010, 16:49
@ Josephine Bugeja
Divorce legislation would give an abuser the right, to abuse new spouses
and / or their children.
Divorce only makes a bad situation worse.
Divorce gives one the right to break numerous families.
Therefore divorce is not the solution to failed marriages.
Joseph Calleja
Jul 29th 2010, 17:07
@ Raymond Bezzina. " Therefore divorce is not the solution to failed marriages.". So what is Mr Bezzina? COHABITATION? Abandonment? How do you explain that to a battered wife whose husband beats her, abuses her, cheats on her and abuses the kids.? It seems like either you have never been married or you are lucky enough to have a happy marriage which some people don't. Either way you don't have any clue of what you are talking about. He who stirs the pot knows what is in it. Enough said. I suggest you join the Joe Zammit congregation.
Raymond Bezzina
Jul 29th 2010, 21:19
@ Joseph Calleja
The answer to your three questions is 'separation'. I truthfully do not know
why you have left this option out.
To continue on your third question, divorce would give the abuser multiple
opportunities, to repeat the abuse on future spouses and / or children, with
the result that one person would break numerous families. From this, one
can realize the negative consequences of divorce on society.
Regarding your last sentence; I am a Roman Catholic, and if Mr. Joe Zammit
is also a Roman Catholic, I absolutely would not mind to join in the good fight,
without violence.
Joe Zammit
Jul 29th 2010, 11:17
Rights are positive. Divorce is negative, so it is no right. Rights entail duties. Divorce entails no duty (not even to remarry), so it is no right.
The European Convention on Human Rights is reticent on divorce, so divorce is no right. The United Nations Universal Declaration of Human Rights is mum on divorce, so divorce is no right.
Therefore, any argument depicting divorce as a right in view of introducing it in our legislation is flawed right at the start.
wally vella-zarb
Jul 29th 2010, 11:57
"Rights entail duties. Divorce entails no duty (not even to remarry), so it is no right."
There you go again, basing an 'argument' on an inane generalisation! I do have a right to life: what are my duties in this respect? I also have a right to a peaceful and serene existence: can you explain what are my duties vis-a-vis this right? Or, perhaps, you don't consider life and peaceful existence as rights either?
Kenneth Cassar
Jul 30th 2010, 07:07
Since you have copied and pasted the exact words you said weeks if not months ago, I will give you the same answer.
Babies don't have duties. Do you believe that they have no rights?
Joe Xuereb
Jul 29th 2010, 11:13
2) Marriage is only a piece of paper, a token of respectability. And as we all know - do we not?! - respectability is only a facade. Not unlike that other stranglehold, dignity, and the rest of the nonsense. In the meantime we cohabit, we sire children out of wedlock, we separate. A bit of a shambles. But whose fault is it? Human impulses are what they are. The law needs to reflect changing mores (that it created, oddly enough, by tampering with basic human rights). Because human impulses are what they are. And that has to be taken on board. Bring morality into the equation and you create a shambles. Reasons is what sorts us out and makes our life anywhere near tenable.
I wish Lynn Zahra all the best. In a different previous era of my life I would have prayed for her (so to speak). I only have one short life. So I (huge capital i) sorted myself out. I couldn't wait forever you see. It is our duty to inform ourselves (if we are allowed but that's another story). From then on, justice is all we have. And tyranny by the majority is NOT an option.
david debattista
Jul 29th 2010, 11:04
This does not help the church more will live in sin if that is the way the church sees it , and more will have to suffer. You people better think of how to handle this because since most
countries have it, it is a violation of our rights and it will defiantly make people shy away from marriage. With the right intentions we will have the possibility for people to divorce if that is what they want in Malta, With the right intentions, reasons, and the right people it is possible.
Joe Xuereb
Jul 29th 2010, 10:59
1) This is, for me, rather convoluted but I'll have a bash anyway. If I make a fool of myself, so be it. Won't be the first time, or the last.
Laws are often made to protect us from ourselves. Fine.
Conventions are signed to give rights to asylum-seeking illegals. To the detriment of people, patronizingly protected from themselves, elsewhere. I think if there is the right to marry (as in contract), there is the right to undo. Particularly when a marriage is not etched in heaven.
I grew up with Moral Social Workers in place. Words like bastard were derogatory, later replaced by the euphemistic 'out of wedlock' but derogatory still. Single mums were shunted into Mother & Baby Homes, child taken away. The whole shebang piled high with shame and opprobrium. Eventually, Moral Welfare Officers became obsolete. Times changed. Victorian era well and truly past and buried, forgotten. Laws 'protect' us from ourselves so we walk the walk. We choose to co-habit where the law can't touch us. Can it not? Don't hold your breath. In the meantime, today, a bastard is merely a child born to an unmarried couple. So?! What's the big deal?
continued
Paul Barrett
Jul 29th 2010, 10:54
As divorce has absolutely no effect on those that do not wish to believe in it, I really cannot see what the opposition is to alleviating the misery and hardship of those that do.
There is no sound argument for preventing individuals from a totally failed marriage which has already been granted a legal separation (and thus all the financial as well as the custody of any children problems have already been finalised) applying for and being granted divorce status after a suitable period (one year from legal separation).
David Caruana
Jul 29th 2010, 10:42
Can someone please explain why this article carries the title "Case for divorce already rejected by European Court of Human Rights"?!
From what I'm understanding, Dr.Zahra will take this case to the ECHR in October, so how did we get to the conclucion that it is "already rejected"?
J Farrugia
Jul 29th 2010, 10:51
cant you read correctly? the crux of the article is that someone has already made an application before the ECHR in like manner saying that divorce is a civil right and the court has thrown it down the drain. Divorce is no civil right. It is a human wrong not a civil right. Civil rights are awarded to all citizens. Divorce cannot be put in the same level.
Roberta Buhagiar
Jul 29th 2010, 11:06
Divorce is a human wrong? Who are you to say that? God?
martin saliba
Jul 29th 2010, 14:11
@ J farrugia. not long ago the church believed that the world was flat and it took the same church about 400 years to appologise to Galaleo ,if im not mistaken, for punishing him for it. The church also changed its mind quite recently with respesct to unbaptised babies. They no longer went to hell . The church is stil to appologise for the trauma caused to parents that lost their child before it was baptised. So if you can accept that your church which represents your god can change its mind on such serious matters you must also accept that we mere humans can change our mind with regard to divorce. what is certian is that it will not take hundreds of years.
Lydia Pace Workman
Jul 29th 2010, 14:35
@ J. Farrugia " Divorce is a human wrong?" My goodness, from under which rock did you crawl out? You are the epitome of self righteousness and arrogance. You obviously have not heard some of the appalling stories of domicile abuse, be it emotional or physical. For years I worked with abused spouses and their children and the emotional baggage carried with me at the end of the day, the helplessness and sense of failure in the inability to do something immediate about it is beyond description. Some of these women are so conditioned to their desperate fate that they start to feel that the abuse is well deserved, now that is a human wrong for you. I certainly hope that none of the misery caused by a bad marriage will ever hit you or your immediate family, for if it should, you would certainly change your tune. Every human being has a right to happiness without the stigma of being in a state of " human wrong".
Raymond Bezzina
Jul 29th 2010, 16:20
@ Lydia Pace Workman
What you did not mention in your comment is, that divorce would give
the abuser other opportunities, to repeat the abuse on other future
spouses and / or children.
Where there is abuse of a spouse there is the separation process, but
not divorce. Divorce is not the right solution to abused persons.
Divorce only makes a bad situation worse, therefore it must not be legalized.
Ramon Casha
Jul 29th 2010, 10:37
Up to 1965, racial segregation was still legal in the US. In 1955, Rosa Parks broke the law by riding in the "whites only" section of a bus. Today the US has a black president. Quite a big change for a mere 50 years or so.
I'm confident that 24 years is more than enough for the fundamental right of divorce to be similarly recognised by the European courts.
C. Azzopardi
Jul 29th 2010, 10:47
Truer words were never spoken. Well said.
Peter Murray
Jul 29th 2010, 10:17
A judgment handed down almost a quarter of a century ago should and must be reviewed in light of present day circumstances.The principle argument being that the country concerned in the discriminatory action ,Ireland,now has the availability enshrined in its legislation to its citizens of a divorce option.
Philip Grech
Jul 29th 2010, 10:31
'A judgment handed down almost a quarter of a century ago should and must be reviewed in light of present day circumstances'.
...Lots of sentences to review, then? Good job we don't have the death penalty!