Update 2: Pullicino Orlando says he was not asked to withdraw divorce bill
Colleagues criticise Pullicino Orlando's methods
Video: Paul Spiteri Lucas
Nationalist MP Jeffrey Pullicino Orlando said that at a meeting of the PN parliamentary group today he was not asked to withdraw his divorce bill.
In comments after the three-hour meeting, he said he was pleased that the discussion on the subject would continue at a party and national level.
Prime Minister Lawrence Gonzi said the group had agreed to continue the discussion at a party and national level. He was non-committal on whether the bill would make it to the parliamentary agenda, saying part of the discussion was how the people could have a say in the matter. He also reiterated his personal opposition to divorce and his disagreement with the way Dr Pullicino Orlando had presented his private motion.
Asked if he was speaking about a referendum or an electoral commitment, Dr Gonzi said this too was an issue which had to be discussed.
PULLICINO ORLANDO'S METHODS CRITICISED
Informed sources said that during the meeting, Dr Pullicino Orlando came in for criticism from colleagues for having presented a private member's bill for the introduction of divorce without referring to the party's parliamentary group first.
During the meeting Dr Pullicino Orlando explained that he had given the bill a lot of thought and he felt it was the right thing to do for society.
Most of those present appeared to agree that this was an issue which the country needed to discuss, but they disagreed with the method adopted by Dr Pullicino Orlando, the sources said.
During the meeting some MPs argued that the they, as members of the PN group, did not have the people's mandate to proceed with a divorce debate in Parliament, once it was not promised in the electoral programme.
The possibility of referring the issue to a referendum was also briefly discussed. Some viewed it as a way out of the situation while others argued that subjects such as this, which involved personal decisions, should not be decided by referendum.
The Nationalist MPs refused to give their personal views on divorce as they walked in and out.
A number of MPs from both sides of the House gave their views when they were interviewed yesterday.
See http://www.timesofmalta.com/articles/view/20100707/local/mps-have-divergent-views-on-divorce
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79 Comments
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Chris Mifsud
Jul 9th 2010, 15:21
There is no issue here. Divorce should be legalized because weather the Dr Gonzi or the Church like it or not, there are many who want it , and those who can afford it do it abroad whilst those who can't just have to lump it.
Anybody who is against it are free not to seek divorces themselves but have o right to impose their views on others. What are they affraid of?
This "because Malta is a Catholic country" attitude is long expired and has no place in the 21st century. I have the same feelings for the censorship laws, abortion (in some cases) etc...
Rudy Sollars
Jul 9th 2010, 18:51
My point is that I don't consider a referendum necessary considering that just over 53% of the electorate has already voted yes for the EU membership, which effectively means taking responsabilty for all its consequences.
Furthermore, In 2005 the Maltese Parliament ratified the proposed EU Constitution, while on 1 December 2009, the Prime Minister signed the Treaty of Lisbon, including the reference to the Charter of Fundamental Rights on behalf of all the Maltese citizens.
It therefore follows that respecting the electorate decision means to impliment the European Constitution - even if this means that our Constitution has to become entirely Secular. I certainly do not consider that the electorate has to vote once again - for or against - divorce. Acting European demands that this should be left entirely to the freedom of conscience of the individual, and as your correctly say no one is privilaged to impose their views on others.
Rudy Sollars
Jul 9th 2010, 14:50
I think divorce is an issue purely concerned with the freedom on conscience, particularly of those individuals concerned, and not the progative of the State, the dominant ideology, popular rhetoric, or the tyranny of the majority. Thus, we must let these individuals completely free to pursue their own conscience in such matters, as is demanded by Freedom.
Considering that the Maltese has aleardy democratically chosen to join the European Union, it necessarily follows that citizens are entitled to freely excercise European values such as those stipulated in the European Charter of Fundamental Rights, which are now not only legally binding but being the supreme law, according to the Treaty of Lisbon.
Furthermore, considering that while the current administration has out of its free will signed the Treaty of Lisbon without any reservations, in comparisson the Republic of Ireland, Poland, the U.K., Czech Republic and Denmark - has asked for an opt out in regards to some aspects of the European Charter of Fundamental Rights.
Given these facts, I consider that the issue of divorce should therefore be privately pursued by concerned individuals in domestic Law Courts, and if needs be in the European Court of Human Rights.
charlie spiteri
Jul 9th 2010, 08:27
On. JPO, qabel ma ressaqt din l-emenda tad-divorzju, għax ma ressaqtx il-wegħda lil dik il-mara omm li rabbiet familja u ma marritx taħdem u tat lill-istat ulied li jagħmlu ġieħ lill-pajjiżhom! Għandha tkun kompensata b'xi ħaġa din l-omm!? Jew insejnihom lil dawn iċ-ċittadini onesti li qatt ma kienu ta' piż fuq il-finanzi ta' pajjiżhom!???!Il-wegħdi ta' programm elettorali jiġu qabel l-interessi personali!
CA Miller
Jul 9th 2010, 01:29
If you are not willing to "in good and in bad, til death do us part", then save the wedding money and don't sign the contract.
Also, a referendum is useless because the majority is not necessarily right. Otherwise we could have a referendum to legalize armed robbery.
Raymond Camilleri
Jul 8th 2010, 15:52
it should be introduced immediately hence an apology to why they did not do it earlier a referendum ????? or why wait its a right to be able to obtain a divorce not a matter that should be voted for by all population, as the percentage needing it is low, therefore the majority they care less if it is introduced , I strongly believe you are a valid asset. for the rest of the Mp's please do not follow the political way of looking good in the eyes of the majority but consider the minority as well, even if this does not always make you win votes.
come on People !
Lets be totally Europeans with all the rights and obligations -----
Thumbs up For Mp J.P.O --- this issue was bound to come up i expected it from a number of different MP's but none had the marbles to do it I guess..
boris@maltanet.net
Raymond Camilleri
Dr.Lynn Zahra LL.D
Jul 8th 2010, 13:37
When our PM goes on record saying he is against divorce because he believes in strong families he is cheerfully showing his ignorance of the State's duty to ensure that ALL kids are cared for, including those whose parnets are not married because they cannot obtain a divorce here in Malta.
The State, Prime Minister has a legitimate interest in strenghtening family bonds of ALL families . Even those families where the parnets cannot marry because these too have strong bonds with their children.
Those family bonds are being totally disrespected by aState where separation between Church and State supposedly exists .
Under the European Convention one has aright not to freedom of religion which , together with the right to respect for family life is being violated by the Maltese State .
In my view the European Court of Human Rights can remedy the discrimination perpetrated by the State by providing a remedy and the forceful introduction of divorce, whatever any party or any referendum says.
The Maltese uninformed wrongly assume that democracy means the Tyranny of the Majority over minority rights.
Please join me inthis battle agaisnt the Tyranny of those against the introduction of divorce. email lynnlegal@gmail.com
Jack Sparrow
Jul 8th 2010, 19:15
Don't worry Dr Zahra, now we'll have the Cohabitation Act to set things straight! What a farce.. this country is never for one moment boring!
joe gatt
Jul 9th 2010, 15:49
All members of the presents administration (and any administration) are duty bound to serve their Country, namely, its citizens. After all, it is their welfare that should matter.
In an election the majority wins. But the issue here has nothing to do with either the majority, the minority, the church or religion.
It has all to do with justice, for those unfortunate souls in limbo. These souls should be allowed to freely decide their own fate and future in a new relationship, if they so desire and no law written by man should prevent it.
I only hope our so called leaders will not shirk their responsabilty, and hide behind this so called excuse, referendum. The Maltese people should not be empowered to decide their Maltese brothers and sisters civil rights and liberties.
It is for our parlamentarins to decide. They and only they should be in the hot seat, re the subject of divorce.
Mr Prime Minister, show us your pair of strong hands. but pls do not shirk yr responsibilities.
Julian Esposito
Jul 8th 2010, 10:54
Not everyone is Catholic. Why would anyone want to impose their beliefs on others. Just because divorce is there, if you are Catholic and have faith you have all the liberty of not resorting to it. JPO did the right thing. Our parliament and country would benefit a lot if our MPs all did like him and all votes be a free vote. That would be true representation. Dr. Gonzi please change your patronising style of speaking and leading the people and have the guts to reverse any bad decisions that have been happening. This is not the time for political smirks. Unfortunately I think you have lost control over what is happening in this country.
Emanuel Cilia Debono
Jul 8th 2010, 10:44
The issue of divorce should be decided by a referendum . The people as a whole should have a say in an issue which does not affect only the partners of broken marriages but the institution of marriage itself.
Those parents who are suffering as a result of a failed marriage ( which was not invalid in the first place) need help but they should seek remedies other than divorce and legal remarriage.
From what I know, children of a broken marriage remain deeply attached to the faithful parent or parents who -at no small sacrifice- albeit separated , try to maintain a family relationship rather than seek divorce and the legal establishment of a new family , which the children cannot ( in their hearts) regard as their own. Have our social workers and particularly the vociferous advocates of divorce ever thought of producing reliable results of any genuine social survey on the subject?
Joe Fenech
Jul 8th 2010, 09:47
Give us a break, Gonz!!! Limit your Christianity to your home, but leave the Maltese people alone.
It would be better to see how one can help children of divorcees or broken couples, and the parents after this trauma. What on earth do you think? That people divorce after an argument?
GONZI, STEP DOWN !!!! I'M SURE YOUR PARTY HAS MORE MODERATE, SENSIBLE PEOPLE WHO CAN LEAD IT!
joe galea
Jul 8th 2010, 07:53
Well done JPO at last we have someone with common sense in parliament .Alot of people have been suffering alot from this premative law we have in this country. Well done again !!!!
J. Mifsud
Jul 8th 2010, 00:18
Dear Prime Minister, most of the burdens we are enduring were not listed in your electoral programme, but you keep tightening our belt and 'suffocating' us.
Therefore, please, act as a Prime Minister for once, and cut the bull....................
Christopher Briffa
Jul 7th 2010, 23:51
With all due respect to everyone, Dr Gonzi included, the divorce issue cannot be decided by a referendum, why on earth would someone who is not suffering in a failed marriage decide the fate of others that are suffering. I for one, so far does not need a divorce because luckily I am in a stable marriage and therefore I could say that I could not care less whether divorce is introduced in Malta or not. On the other hand I understand the deep suffering many people out there are experiencing due to their failed marriages and I believe that everyone should be given a chance to live a happy life. May I also remind everyone that those who seek a divorce believe in marriage because otherwise why would one want to divorce if not for the right to be able to marry again. The Prime Minister and all our legislators cannot abdicate from taking a decision and they will have to separate their religious beliefs from their civil duties, because in case they haven`t realised many people are suffering. Well done JPO for having the courage to present this bill.
L.Cardona
Jul 7th 2010, 22:28
Let's be practical.
Imagine four scenarios of a Maltese couple that have been married for twenty years who have children.
Scenario 1. The couple apply and be granted ecclesiastical annulment. They are free to remarry and do so in Malta.
Scenario 2. The couple apply and are granted legal separation. Both of them are free to cohabit in Malta.
Scenario 3. The Maltese couple who lived for some time abroad apply and are granted divorce in a foreign country. They are free to remarry in Malta.
Scenario 4. The Maltese couple cannot apply for a divorce in Malta. However they are free to leave each other and cohabit.
Isn't this crazy. Do the children in scenario four suffer differently from those of scenario 1 to 3?
Charles Grixti
Jul 7th 2010, 21:45
Human Rights were not on the Manifesto either, but does that mean that we can dispense with these?
Divorce is something that should never be on any party's manifesto. In this day and age, here in a supposedly progressive EU country, we are still debating whether the Catholic Church (local branch) should dictate to MP's and to the PM on such an important issue as divorce, when all civilized countries have long ago introduced this legislation to regularise families and stabilise society. All members of Parliament should understand that they are there to represent a SECULAR state, irrespective of their own personal religious beliefs, otherwise they are not representing all their constituents and if they intend to let their personal religious sentiments get in the way, then they should resign and should have never presented themselves for election to represent the people to begin with.
A telltale sign of a true Democracy is how well it protects the rights of all its citizens, even of its minorities (although I believe those that want Divorce in Malta to be in the majority). And the first step in the right direction would be to remove all mention of religion from our Constitution.
R.Borg
Jul 7th 2010, 21:31
Thank you, Mr. Prime Minister, for going against the current and opposing divorce. Your good mother from heaven is praying for you.
Please, do not trust JPO. He has lost my support and that of my family.
It could be that Dr.Alfred Sant was right in his regard re: Mistra Affair.
Now he should be mature and responsable enough and resign from Parliament, an honourable thing to do, a facesaver.
From outside parliament and the nationalist party he world be in a better position to lobby for divorce.
I congratulate Mrs.Marlene Pullicino Orlando for being against divorce as stated in to-day's issue of the Times.
Sciortino m
Jul 7th 2010, 19:50
To all those arguing that divorce was not in the electoral manifesto I would like to point out that the roofless theatre was not in the manifesto, neither was the new parliament nor the multi-million loan to Greece. Yet the Government went ahead with all of them.
J. Schembri
Jul 7th 2010, 19:47
A number of MPs from both sides of the House gave their views when they were interviewed yesterday.
How about asking the public about this issue, in a referendum? As far as I know only Alternattiva Demokratika presented us the issue of divorce in its electoral program and AD has no seat in Parliament.
Should for example, Dr Adrian Vassallo present a private member's bill on an all year round hunting season?
Hans-Jorgen Gotsche
Jul 8th 2010, 00:57
No Mr. Schembri, the MP's are too scared to call for a refertendum over Divorce. Just look to your right and see the result of the Times' poll on the topic. 2/3 of the readers are supporting the possibility for divorce in this country. That only prooves how far from the public opinion, the MP's are - between the elections.
By the way, AD is not the only party with divorce on their manifesto. That was top priority on the ALDM (Allenza Liberal) manifesto up to the European Parliament election last June.
Emanuel Farrugia
Jul 7th 2010, 19:47
Dear commentors; you all seem to be missing the wood for the trees. JPO has got his timing right. to the next election and he knows his onions. The big question is, has he got the guts to do what Mintoff did, if someone tries to block him for no reason, once he has decided to take this plunge ? The PN has a majority of ONLY one MP ? What hypocrisy from the PN expecting JPO to inform everbody beforehand when they knew this was such a HOT POTATO.
Those who are pontificating should come down to earth and realise how many couples are cohabiting because of this situation and the harm their poor children go through when they split up with nothing legal to back up their life and each time society takes a knock on the head. That is why a lot commentors do NOT want a referendum to be held
I agree divorce will not solve everything, but what is society to do ? I do not agree with divorce. I have been happily married for scores of years. I would like to have the power to stop couples from divorcing and cohabiting. But.......
Joe Busuttil
Jul 7th 2010, 21:04
There is only one Mintoff. Don't think that JPO is in that class. I don't know what the PN is up to but for sure it's up to no good. Wouldn't trust them.
j.schembri
Jul 7th 2010, 19:07
Hawn min qieghed jahseb li din hija mossa orkestrata mill-P.N. u JPO qed jintuza jew forsi offra biex jintuza halli jaraw sa fejn sa jaslu d-deputati tal-lajber u anki fl-istess hin ikollhom feedback ta kif jahsiba ilpoplu Malti. JM u shab u ghoqodu attenti li ma tkunx nassa din
Carmel Ellul
Jul 7th 2010, 18:25
Divorce or Liquidating a company made up of share holders , minimum of two, with more added on authomatically as the two major shareholders procreate as a result of the company's activity.
Marriage is the formation of the above company and registration of the legal entity with government and or Religious representative if the two partners are practicing members of the religious group of the religious representative.
The real problem is its effect on the children especially if they are minors and still depend on their parents.
If there are no children , then civil marriage can be separted in the same way and speed as a company is dissolved.
If there are children then the inheritance should be worked out in the same way as if a company is being dissolved and the shares inherited by the children passed to a fund owned by the children , not the separating parents.
From the religious aspect , the catholic church teachings are that marriage is forever until death do us part and is also for better or for worse.
Unless you are prepared to sign such contract conditions then do not marry in church.
The church is not a democracy
Albert Critien
Jul 7th 2010, 18:12
Our Lord Jesus Christ told us 2000+ years ago ' Everyone who divorces his wife and marries another is guilty of adultery' and on another occasion 'what is joined by God let no man put asunder' to cap it all he told us ' It is easier for heaven and earth to disappear than for one little stroke to drop out of the law'
Do us mortals feel superior than our Saviour and Creator
Joseph Micallef
Jul 7th 2010, 18:24
You say "Our Lord Jesus Christ " - well Jesus Christ is not the LORD of everyone though! Get that? Those who don't believe in him do no need to be under his rules!
Joseph Micallef
Jul 7th 2010, 18:26
The LORD also said that we should live by the spirit of the law and not by its yoke.
Anthony Borg
Jul 7th 2010, 20:29
Dear Mr. Critien, you chose to cite a religious book, albeit only the part that is convenient. This particular text, even if taken out of context, reads:
"I tell you that anyone who divorces his wife, except for marital unfaithfulness (you left this part out), and marries another woman commits adultery.” So it is clear that even in that civilization, divorce was acceptable ONLY if the wife was unfaithful. (The wife of an adulterer didn't have this privilege it seems, but that is another argument!)
Ernest Vella
Jul 8th 2010, 00:03
@ Joseph Micallef - Jesus Christ is the Lord of all creation, of those who believe in him and those who don't...God made man in his image and likeness, God became one of us and by so what was a moral truth became a living truth...Jesus Christ on Divorce is the authority and not politcians or the so called moral experts that sometimes rise there head to say something which is non-sense...the latest...that Jesus was pro-divorce as one guy pointed out...Hawnhekk Jeffrey ghandu konflitt ta interess...interesanti l-fatt li MPO imbaghat hija dikjarata kontra d-divorzju.
J.C. Grech
Jul 8th 2010, 08:09
Mr. Critien, you have no right to impose religious teachings in the personal life of others. The Crusades are over!!!
I am catholic myself and personally do not agree with divorce because of my religious beleifs as you do, but I have NO RIGHT to impose my religious beleifs on other people. Remember, everyone is born free to make his/her own choices in life. Divorce should be a choice and even if I won't make use of it because of my faith, it should be available to everyone.
Ben Dover
Jul 8th 2010, 13:14
Ernest Vella, also, your way of arrogant reasoning is partly why christianity has such a bad reputation worldwide.
You believe in christianity: Fine.
You believe that your god i the only one no matter others' religions: Extremely arrogant but Fine.
You going out of your way to impose that arrogant belief on others: You better start running, boy.
Vince Peresso
Jul 7th 2010, 18:10
Divorce was not included in he electoral manifesto of either MLP nor PN. Ergo this parliament could yes start the discussion in one of subcommittees or even pleneray sessions but it cannot decide to introduce or not divorce in Malta at this stage. Therefore Dr Pullicino Orlando had neither the right nor the power to move such a proposal as the electorate was not asked about it. Without going into the merits or demerits of divorce at this stage I would suggest that this parliament stop short of deciding on this issue and leave the matter to the next parliament once all parties had included the issue of divorce in their electoral manifesto.
Ivan Balzan
Jul 7th 2010, 17:58
'Colleagues critisize his methods....'. of coarse they do... they dont have the guts to do otherwise.... we don't need yes men. I say hear hear to JPO, have not always agreed with his ways but it least someone with guts on the PN side. I' m sure there are a few oithers willing to follow.... why not? Divorce is a right, putting your head in sand does not mean it's not needed. If you're happily married you will not need divorce.
Mario Muscat
Jul 7th 2010, 17:35
"The possibility of referring the issue to a referendum was also briefly discussed. Some viewed it as a way out of the situation while others argued that subjects such as this, which involved personal decisions, should not be decided by referendum."
Personal decision , that's a joke !!!
Divorce is a state matter and moral issues should be left out of it . Feel like living under a Taliban regime pushing their moral issues down my throat . I simply had enough of this drama !!!
Alex Vella Gera
Jul 7th 2010, 17:19
Enjoy!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TiacBuuY7Ak
Charles Sammut NY USA
Jul 7th 2010, 17:09
It is about time the ostrich got his head out of the sand and let Malta join the league of civilised nations by allowing couples that cannot live together to have another chance to get their act together. Here in NY a "no fault" divorce law just passed the legislature that lets couple that want to get a divorce get one without any questions asked. I would not go this route in Malta but something has to be done when there are so many couples separating and then cohabitating with another party. And of course no one should be forced to get a divorce against his or her will but no one has the right to tell others how to live their lives as long as no laws are broken.
R Formosa Bristol UK
Jul 7th 2010, 18:10
Whilst I do not have a problem with the divorce bill being introduced in Malta, I can't understand your logic.
1. Just because several countries allow divorce doesn't mean that it is healthy. The UK & USA send troops constantly to Iran; does this mean that it's good and that Malta should send its troops also?
2. Just because someone gets divorced, it doesn't necessarily mean that they will be allowed (at least in Malta) to get re-married; quote: "so many couples separating and then cohabitating with another party" - they might end up divorced and then cohabiting with another party. So what's the point of it in reality if they will still end up cohabiting?
Just some food for thought!
Charles Grixti
Jul 8th 2010, 10:44
@ R. Formosa
And I cannot understand your 'logic' when you say divorce is not healthy. So what is healthy then, an irrevocablly broken marriage that cannot be ended (except of course by recourse to a Church annulment)? Divorce is not about being healthy but about being free to remarry after a bad marriage - health has nothing whasoever to do with it.
Amd yes, those that get a divorce are allowed to get re-married if they so choose to, even in Malta, that is the whole idea of a divorce!
Gerard Cassar
Jul 7th 2010, 17:00
Referring to the fact that unless divorce is promised in an electoral program it should not be debated, a number of issues have not been included in the P.N. program but still they are being proceded with the support of the whole group of P.N. candidates.
Requesting political parties to include divorse in their electoral program is proposing to them to include the loss of the elections in their electoral manifesto.
The Church will have such a say that whosoever rerfers to divorce in its program will find the Church 100 % against it, without the need to impose mortal sin directly. Indirectly it will be there since it will refer to Catholic conscious responsibility.
An advice to the Church. Don't treat requests for annulment the way it is being done. Losing a lot of months even to just initiate a case. Why should a case take years to be decided and often with the wrong decision of not accepting the reasons for the request. It is making a request nearly impossible to be put forward and compel the persons concerned to refer to the Court of Justice for annulment and not the Curia.
D Attard
Jul 7th 2010, 16:46
Just how much more discussion must there be.? What is there to discuss?....call me cynical but it's just delaying tactics. Neither smart, nor sophisticated but gimmicky in the extreme.Trying to appease the extreme right,Church included for fear of losing votes. The fact is,whichever way you go about this divorce issue,the Government is on a losing streak,might as well go the way of good reason and bring forward legislation to make divorce legal.
B Sant
Jul 7th 2010, 16:40
easy gonzi if u cant decide let the people decide by a referendum -
Albert Farrugia
Jul 7th 2010, 16:36
The masters of spin are spinning one of their biggest webs yet....i hope noone is not so naive to think that JPO is acting alone in this. The Parliamentary Assistent on research and development, or any other MP for that matter, would NEVER act alone on such a serious and controversial matter. This is not about whether or not the windows at Castille should be yellow or brown...The thing which amazes me is how can the Nationalists manage to fool the Maltese people in this way (giving the impression that this is a JPO solo mission) and practically everyone falls for it....incredible...
Joseph Calleja
Jul 7th 2010, 17:27
Mr Farrugia I tend to agree with what you are saying. Did the PN see all this coming from the left and decided to get a head start and beat the competition? Like you, I do not really believe JPO acted on his own. I believe this was a planned stunt and PN knows that it won't go to far. This is nothing but a political smoke screen because otherwise JPO would have been voted out already. But Mr Farrugia as the saying goes, You can fool some of the people some of the time but you cannot fool all of the people all of the time. JPO is not a mutineer. and will never go against his party. So what goes? I think the party head start theory makes a lot of sense. Also, the PM does not seem to be very upset about the whole thing, it will go away, soon.
Ramon Casha
Jul 7th 2010, 16:30
"they... did not have the people's mandate to proceed with a divorce debate in Parliament, once it was not promised in the electoral programme."
So parliament may only debate matters that are found in the previous electoral programme? That's nonsense.
c. camilleri
Jul 7th 2010, 16:15
As always Jeffrey is after the limelight as things should have been done in a more gentlemanly manner.
louis zammit
Jul 7th 2010, 16:09
Maybe the divorse bill was not in the PN manifesto but are we BLIND just look around u and u cee how many couples are seperating.. i am sure that many bills that are passed in parlament are in any manifesto..so come on more and more people are in favour of divorce WELL done MR Pullicino Orlando to be with the people.........
Mike Farrugia
Jul 7th 2010, 16:08
JPO is holding the party at ransom. The PN should call an election asap and get a 3 or 4 seat majority so it can continue to govern without any internal hindrance.
Robert Agius
Jul 7th 2010, 16:06
Wow! Not even 1 other person had the guts to express his opinion. Thank goodness we have this bunch to 'discuss' things in our country. Shameful!!!! Shameful!!!! Shameful!!!!
'During the meeting some MPs argued that the they, as members of the PN group, did not have the people's mandate to proceed with a divorce debate in Parliament, once it was NOT PROMISED IN THE ELECTORAL PROGRAMME' would it be the 1st time? or do you just use this argument when you find it opportune Gonzi?
Noel Abela
Jul 7th 2010, 15:59
I got the impression that they are afraid of something....
C. Bartoli
Jul 7th 2010, 15:56
Ovvja li ghandu jsir referendum!! Milli jidher il politikanti taghna insew li qed jithallsu mit taxxi tal poplu u li minghajr is support tal poplu ma huma xejn! Dan x'igifieri u bliema dritt "jahsbuwa" fuq ir referendum? Mela allura din x'demokrazija hi? Jien li nghix malta u inhallas it taxxi bhal kull cittadin iehor kif ma ghandiex dritt naghti il vot tieghi fuq jekk ghandux jidhol id divorzju jew le? Biex ihallas tajjeb il poplu malti imma biex jiehu decizjoni kbira le? Mela hsibtuna bla mohh??
J. Darmanin
Jul 7th 2010, 15:41
it's interesting how dismissive they are all and are, either really scared to voice their personal opinions on the matter, or else they are afraid of doing so cos they are ordered not to do so from high above! how sad!
Robert Zammit
Jul 7th 2010, 15:39
Hats off to JPO !! I admire JPO for bringing this bill to parliament. The PN can't try to run away from the issue saying it was not on their electoral manifesto cos they've done so many things that weren't there already since the last election and even before. If they do it will show them up as the hypocrites they and many other Maltese are ! It is about time divorce is introduced in Malta, it being 1 of only 2 countries in the world that lacks legislation on the matter. Probably Gonzi PN are furious at JPO cos they would have liked to leave divorce as an electoral issue, bringing in the Church to scare people from voting PL.
Every other EU citizen can get a divorce, why should the Maltese citizen remain the only one who hasn't the right to it ?? Bravo JPO, there's need of more MPs like yourself !!!
Adriano Spiteri
Jul 7th 2010, 15:38
Carmelo Mifsud Bonnici: "I will only form an own opinion once the subject has been discussed"
That shows what a Minister we've got!
The same Minister who had previously ridiculed JPO by stating that he was misinformed when the MP voiced Malta's only solution to illegal immigration (that of sending them back to where they came from). The topic was left to the Frank-one to discuss: the taxpayer will bail out his creditors soon!
The man has got a cheek! He's the sheepy type who prefers to belong rather than be. Not the type of people we need in power I say. Not under a party who calls itself 'Nationalist' at least!
K. Pullicino
Jul 7th 2010, 15:34
Isn't anyone noticing that we're calling divorce a civil right, simply because everyone else has it? Let's make sure we aren't thrashed along with currents and use our heads please.
Karl Consiglio
Jul 7th 2010, 15:28
On witnessing this short film I fail to see the difference between Labour and their "Free vote" or the Nationalist's with their "Se nidiskutuwa"
Gordon Farrugia
Jul 7th 2010, 16:47
Elementary my dear Watson "we are going to discuss it" means in reality "we will discuss it, yes, but after discussing it we will say no to divorce". They don't want to upset their long traditional alliance with the Church now do they, see how the archbishop reacted yesterday ;)
Adrian Borg Cardona
Jul 7th 2010, 15:25
Can anyone pin point the political mandate of the NP to destroy City Gate, build a new parliament and deny us a national theatre? I do not recall such a mandate - and I do not recall any NP parliamenterian having qualms of conscience on this issue.
Ian Bugeja
Jul 7th 2010, 16:07
http://www.pn.org.mt/content/docs/programm%20elettorali%20-%20text.pdf
page 66
"Tkompli r-ri©enerazzjoni tal-Belt Valletta.
Tittie˙ed deçiΩjoni finali u jinbeda lpro
©ett li jkopri d-da˙la tal-Belt Valletta,
inkluΩ Bieb il-Belt, Pjazza Óelsien u s-sit
tat-Teatru Rjal."
Anthony Briffa
Jul 7th 2010, 17:29
How can you mix such an issue with the City Gate Project? Since when any political party has to define the projects it will undertake when in power in the electoral manifesto? I cannot see a serious discussion on divorce if people keep mixing things and, like somebody in another comment is also bringing the utilty tariffs in the picture as well. The well known Maltese saying really applies on certain comments. Lets have a serious debate on divorce and then the political parties should have the courage either to ask for a mandate in an election or put the matter to a referendum. This matter should not take much longer to be settled. I reiterate that divorce is overdue in Malta.
Joe Mangion
Jul 7th 2010, 15:25
Biex tmur ghal referendum, jekk hemm bzonnu, trid tghid iva jew le ghal xi haga. Mela, il Parlament ghandu l-obbligu u id dmir li jipprepara il-ligi. Issa imbaghad, jekk ikun il bzonn, il poplu jigi mistoqsi jekk japprovax dik il ligi jew le. U mela noqoghdu ninqdew jekk hemmx political mandate jew le. Jekk veru jemmen fid demokrazija, Il gvern ma jistax jahrab il fatt li jrid imur quddiem il Parlament u jiddibatti il-Bill propost minn Pullicino Orlando.
S vella
Jul 7th 2010, 15:20
Jesmond Mugliett, who left the meeting early, said that an issue which was being discussed was whether the PN had the people's mandate to proceed with a divorce debate in Parliament, once it was not promised in the electoral programme.
With great respect to all both Government and Opposition.For God's sake!!!. does the Government have the peoples' mandate to present us with such utility bills, to raise paymetns for services, to do what they did to Sea Malta, etc or to dish out such fat salaries and perks to Chairmen, CEO's and board members of Government entities??
Why not be practical and live in 2010, and not try to live holier than thou?
mario gellel
Jul 7th 2010, 15:19
KEMM QED TIBZA,Dr.GONZI? JEW MIZZEWGIN MA L-EWROPA, JEW IDDIVORZJATI.
INTHOM DAHALTUNA FL'EWROPA GHAT TAJJEB U GHAL HAZIN. MELA IBLA KLIEMEK U GHAMEL DAK LI TRID L-EWROPA.
Henry Spiteri
Jul 8th 2010, 22:58
@mario gellel:L-Unjoni Ewropea m'ghandha l-ebda kompetenza fejn tidhol il-ligi tal-familja.Huwa l-gvern tal-pajjiz li ghandu s-setgha li jdahhal id-divorzju wara li jinghata mandat mill-poplu.
Anthony Briffa
Jul 7th 2010, 15:18
Such a delicate issue as divorce cannot be approached in this way. Irrespective of what JPO and Joseph Muscat are saying, none of the MP's, from either side of the house, has the mandate to push for such legislation. Although I fully agree that divorce is overdue in Malta, unless any or both parties introduce it in their electoral manifesto, nothing will happen, especially if the MP's are given a free vote as Joseph Muscat is saying he will do after 2013. In my humble opinion I consider that this approach is to loose and I think that more harm than good is being done to this cause.
Karl Consiglio
Jul 7th 2010, 15:17
I sense a lot of adolescent peer pressure in the party. JPO seems to be the only real man amongst them right now.
wayne criggs
Jul 7th 2010, 15:15
change is coming closer people. i want a country where politicians express the people's needs and RIGHTS and not those who are slaves of their own flag. I'm not a JPO admirer but with this move and on such an important issue he deserves my applause. He might be one of the people remembered for helping Maltese getting this basic civil right which others didn't want to give them!
S vella
Jul 7th 2010, 15:36
I am nether a constituent, nor fan of JPO but if we had to be in a theathre and he presents such a bill to the clark of the house ( and therefore the Government) i would be the first one to stand applauding and for a standing ovation. Even though I have a happy marriage I beleive that it is well passed high time for Divorce to be in Malta. Marriage unlucky couples should have the right for another chance in life and love
JOHN O SCERRI
Jul 7th 2010, 15:03
An issue which was being discussed '...whether the PN had the people's mandate to proceed with a divorce debate in Parliament' Hon Jesmond Mugliette said.
Now Seriously : Any debates can take place in parliament.
It is then up to the people to decide by means of a referendum whether or not divorce will be introduced.
Divorce has been debated everywhere in the streets, media, internet , so what's the whole fuss about debating it in parliament?
This issue ( divorce) should have been settled a very long time ago .
Is everything about Divorce negative ?
Is everything about Divorce positive ?
Are there grey patches which have to be considered.
Divorce can ruin a society but can also be a means to regularise relationships .
My opinion would be to make a kick off debate in parliament and continue to inform the public with an open mind.
There are implications if Divorce will be introduced but one cannot ignore the state of relationships as they are today whether married or not .
Religon and partisan politics should not come into the debate.
Divorce is a civil status.
H. Bruni
Jul 7th 2010, 15:02
Its incredible how none of these people seem have their own opinion!!
So if they all say that they will form an opinion once they hear everyone else's opinion, but none of them have an opinion, how will they have this elusive opinion formed in the end?
This truly shows that they're all bench warmers that follow the leader. Sheep!!!
Anthony Borg
Jul 7th 2010, 16:40
I am sure that when asked to vote "yea" or "nay" they just utter: " BAAA!"
Wish we had more of the like of Dr. Pullicino Orlando who has the political stamina to express his
own opinion.
Karl Consiglio
Jul 7th 2010, 15:01
Ejja can't any of you give your honest opinion?
Anthony Gatt
Jul 7th 2010, 14:58
Let's be sane for once shall we: NO ONE ... no political party has any mandate from the electorate to introduce divorce legislation, either privately or in group. No one has that right to bypass the people. Neither labour nor the Nationalist parties have any Mandate to destroy our country. Those people wanting to introducing divorce legislation and thus destroy the social fabric of what remains of our noble past, will themselves be destroyed. And will pay a hefty price. ANd another thing, unless the PN chains all its loose cannons they will have 15 years to enjoy the sun on the Opposition benches. And their supporters will never forget why and who were those MPs who reduced them to such a mess.
Oliver Cini
Jul 7th 2010, 16:07
Social Fabric and Noble past well said but they are nice words and nothing else. In a society where solidarity should be one of our strongest point we should also think towards the problems and face them accordingly. Hiding behind moral values just when they are needed and than imposing once belief just for the sake of a typical hypothetic attitude is not justifies.
In Malta we have social problem where we have loads of separated families which can't advance towards anther life because they are bound to the past by just same stupid regulations which are imposed by the people not facing the problems there selfs.
The argument is huge with a complexity that is beyond any normal discussion and therefore it means that the argument has to be done and that a referendum should be the next logical step. but law has to be in place if it passes.. let's open our minds and think for the whole of the country not just a small part .
Andrew Gatt
Jul 7th 2010, 14:55
Political mandate! Hah! Well, dear PN Group, you certainly had a political mandate about Spring Hunting, but you promptly flushed it down the toilet as soon as possible. Plenty of your other political mandates remain unfulfilled on the shelf too.
I note Minister Misfud Bonnici on the clip. What about your political mandate to reform the Law Courts? Seems to me they're still in the abysmal state they've always been! And I should know - I have been slogging into Valletta on and off for the past 12 years on a stupid civil case.
Please stop treating the public like brainless idiots. You always do and say what it suits you to do and say at any particular moment in time. I guess you call that politics. I call it many other things........all unprintable.
g.c.Forte
Jul 7th 2010, 14:54
Mhux normali li ikollna beraq u sajjetti f`Lulju. Jaqaw gej il maltemp?
G. Mangion
Jul 7th 2010, 17:58
Mhux normali li ikollna beraq u sajjetti f`Lulju. Jaqaw gej il maltemp? ( quote )
Sur Forte Tista ticcara dan il -kumment ?? Jew ..........................
John Pace
Jul 7th 2010, 14:33
JPO seems to be the only MP with guts. Predictably, government MPs will be showing us that they're missing theirs.
Alex Tanti
Jul 7th 2010, 14:13
If JPO is after the limelight
he should have taken it against
GONZI PN's
Topless Theater...
sure that he would have found a sure following...