JPO's aim was to stimulate divorce debate - Gonzi
Video: Paul Spiteri Lucas
Prime Minister Lawrence Gonzi said this afternoon that the aim behind Jeffrey Pullicino Orlando's decision to move a private member's bill for the introduction of divorce was to stimulate debate.
Dr Gonzi spoke on his parliamentary group's three-hour long meeting on the subject when he emerged from PN headquarters this afternoon.
(See comments on video above).
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106 Comments
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Andrew Farrugia
Jul 10th 2010, 00:46
@ Ben Dover
Temper, temper, oh open-minded one, and make sure that you keep all your marbles safe.
Despite all your invectives, which bother me not at all, i am staying put and even if for the sake of argument there is no one who shares my belief on this tiny land of my birth, it would take more than an army to make me budge, and there's only five feet something of me. Now go and have a sustaining glass of camomille tea.
Ben Dover
Jul 11th 2010, 00:00
Temper? I am chill as a winter breeze, bro.
Fair enough if you want to pretend you're right, but since you keep avoiding all my points and refuse to comment after I crushed your argumentative skills, It's quite obvious whose superior here. Also, Camomile*. Fixed that for you, champ. NEXT!
Andrew Farrugia
Jul 9th 2010, 19:34
@ Ben Dover
Ah, so it is not marriage (which you see as a temporary arrangement: you don't see the "unbreakable bond" thing) and divorce you are so upset about; you're griping about the Church and the fact that family is a relative thing, it is not wonderful for everyone. Oh well!
Ben Dover
Jul 9th 2010, 20:11
Are you trying to troll me back?
No, I don't have a gripe about Marriage, I have a gripe with the PEOPLE who think it forces them to be inseparable. If you need a contract to make yourself feel like you truly love your significant other, are you sure you truly love your significant other? A loving bond is from the heart, not because a guy in a fancy hat told you so (for a nominal fee). And yes, I am upset about divorce because I firmly believe that this is a non-issue. If you're so religiously conservative that you feel you have to impose your beliefs on others, move to the Vatican or find some way to back in time to the Papal States, there were a lot of your kind back then.
I also love how you say i'm merely griping about the church and avoiding the absurdity of the chokehold they have on everyone, including you. You must obviously love the feel of the whip.
Andrew Farrugia
Jul 9th 2010, 18:16
@ Ben Dover
Right oh enlightened one - you seem to imply that marriage and family stability constitute "a dying mentality". What would you suggest we do? Bed-hop, wife-swap, fornicate, indulge in menagerie trousers (menage-a-trois)? And where did the phrase "broken society" originate? Are you so blind that you cannot see that there are people who are by nature unstable in their relationships and thus they should not involve others in their instability?
Ben Dover
Jul 9th 2010, 18:35
The dying mentality part was actually aimed at the whole "divorce will unravel the boundaries of society" thing. It's nonsensical.
I don't condone disloyalty, it disgusts me. I DO condone family stability because family is a wonderful thing, however it's not wonderful to everybody. I'm not against Marriage either. If you need it to feel a certain bond with your beloved it's your life, I just don't see the whole "unbreakable bond" part considering it's all just a very expensive pantomime.
"Are you so blind that you cannot see that there are people who are by nature unstable in their relationships and thus they should not involve others in their instability?" Of course I do sir! that's why I believe some people shouldn't marry and if they did the grave mistake already they should be allowed to break up and get on with their lives WITHOUT the church playing them like fiddles and sucking their bank accounts dry. I don't think that's particularly christian or morally right in general, do you?
Joe Zammit
Jul 9th 2010, 08:43
Christ knows more than us what is good for us. He condemned divorce for one and all. He was clear in his words: What God has united let no man put asunder, and this for our own good.
Divorce is evil and whoever wants divorce wants evil. There is no other conclusion.
Join in the battle between God and the devil! Fight the good fight! The victory is ours, it's already guaranteed.
J.Borg
Jul 9th 2010, 10:33
Was Christ speaking to his brother jews or to the Romans? During his time Romans had a different way of living and marriages to Jews but still Jesus was diplomat enough and never interfered in their ways ... he directed his talks to those Jews who wished to have the Roman way of life and liberty in their religion ...
Who is bound to Christianity and other religions that forbid divorce I agree and should be as is ... but those who have no religion and just use civil rights?
It is just a double edge sword ... but we are expecting a Holy Crusade from the Kuria now!
R. Azzopardi
Jul 9th 2010, 12:46
Mr. Zammit,
Are you by any chance one of those who call muslims extremists? You're just as bad as them!
Dawn Cummings
Jul 9th 2010, 12:48
@Joe
Have you seen the poll about "Do you agree that divorce should be introduced?".
I guess with 65% being in favour for divorce your so-called victory is already gone...
Ben Dover
Jul 9th 2010, 14:38
Lord Inquisitor Joey!
He seems so sure of himself though. I wonder how'd he act if the Divorce Law is actually introduced? Would he just be immobile, his religion-addled mind unable to process such heresy?
Mario Muscat
Jul 9th 2010, 15:14
Joe , I suggest you stop trying to brainwash people!! All your comments are paste and copy and make no sense at all , all doom and gloom . I sincerely suggest to you to take a long holiday and while you are at it , get a LIFE
Joe Fenech
Jul 9th 2010, 18:05
WHO CARES?????????????????????????????????
There the Church and there's the state!
Ben Dover
Jul 9th 2010, 18:37
Not in Malta Joe, unfortunately.
Yet. :)
j.schembri
Jul 9th 2010, 08:16
@Cassar Pulis, Nahseb li inti ma tghix Malta. Kien il-L.P. li ha il-propjeta tal-knisja u mhux il-P.N. jekk tistaqsi lil KMB jghidlek ahjar minni. Iva naqbel mieghek li mf'Malta f'affarijiet bhal dawn ghandu il-KattolikuRuman li jiddecidi u mhux nies oħra minn xi settet jew religjonijiet oħra. Aħna għal eluf ta snin ilna insara u għalhekk fejn tidħol ir-religjon jiddecidi il-poplu Malti kollu u mhux il-ftit jew xi membru parlamentari partikulari ghax jekk ikun jaqbel lilu u lil xi ftit hbieb bhalu.
J. Falzon
Jul 8th 2010, 23:43
Reminds me of the times of the Holy Roman Empire, Kingdoms of Leon y Castille, The Byzantine Empire...and most importantly the Papal States
Sometimes I wonder if we are a protectorate of the latter
Yes indeed, the Gonzi All-Catholic Empire, under the patronage of the Vatican State
Andrew Farrugia
Jul 8th 2010, 15:58
@ Ben Dover
" a conservative communist state with a heavy dose of medieval Italian Christianity"; i think you are waffling; what you describe is so contradictory that such a place has never existed and cannot ever exist.
Thanks for wishing that more old people "kick the bucket" ( how cliched!) but remember that at times it may work the other way round.
Finally, given your comments, i seriously doubt whether you can ever be proud of any country in which you happen to be living.
Ben Dover
Jul 8th 2010, 12:57
Great. So PN will keep getting votes because of old crusty people who care more about oppressing the younger with their ancient beliefs, thinking age makes them in the right, while malta remains a conservative communist state with a heavy dose of Medieval Italian Christianity.
I was a fool to think Malta could change anytime soon. It'll only change for the better the more old people kick the bucket and the more foreigners come to live here.
Maybe when i'm 80 I can be proud of my country.
Joseph John Meli
Jul 8th 2010, 13:54
British Criminologist namely Dr. Patricia Morgan, a effected an important study and she stated that after effecting her studies in U.K. - USA,...she discovered a clear link between the braking-up of families and criminality. National Development Study held in 1975 on 18,000 young children before they became sixteen years, the majority had already appeared before the court for some criminal offense. The result on boys was as follows:-
8 % those who lived with natural parents (divorced)
16 % coming from single mothers.
19 % coming from women living with another man (divorced or separated)
70 % of those in prison came from families without a natural father (broken families)
Criminality in the Britain had increased enormously recently. The reason was that the year 1975 she quoted this because it was near the year when divorce was being introduced also in other European...countries.
This problem could now..also be seen in Malta. In such...reports they stated that...“the cohabiting parents with young children were more than twice as likely as married parents to split..up, regardless of age, income and other socio-economic background..factors.” Should we..then study these facts too.....FIRST...and FOREMOST?
Ben Dover
Jul 8th 2010, 14:32
Nice copy/paste instead of coming up with your own opinion.
Also it barely makes sense! You're taking a different country's census and applying it to a totally different one!
Jack Sparrow
Jul 8th 2010, 21:35
@ Ben Dover
There are open minded old people too! They're better off because they take away all the pretty girls your age because they've got much more money than you...
charles caruana
Jul 9th 2010, 11:10
@Joseph John Meli
Joseph, well done. Keep hitting the hysterical pro-divorce lobby with hard facts, which for some strange reason not one of them has seen fit to produce in their choral bleating.
@Ben DoverI
Is that your pathetic answer to Mr Meli’s facts? Is this how you respond when your back is to the wall? Adolescent knee-jerk reactions are no substitute for solid argument. BDW, your country doesn’t need your pride at all, but it could do with a dose of your miserably lacking humility.
Ben Dover
Jul 9th 2010, 12:22
@ Charles Caruana: Oh dear, so hostile. You'll get humility from me when you deserve it. All Mr. Meli did was copy/paste meaningless figures applied to a different country with pretty much different everything. They do not apply to Malta because the results are different everywhere. My answer to both of you is: Come up with your own opinion and give a solid MEANINGFUL reason against the Divorce law considering:
1) Everybody's Pagan and we celebrate pagan holidays and have been for hundreds of years anyways. Christianity as a religion has immense pagan and perverted roots in war and deceit.
2) Divorce won't miraculously break up families the moment it's allowed. It only allows smoother transition into another, better marriage (which is a meaningless contract in and of itself).
3) Genuinely good marriages won't be affected in the least.
I'd like to see this comment posted too, it seems the guy checking my long well-written posts is having a field day blocking them out of fear or giggles.
Ben Dover
Jul 9th 2010, 12:25
@ Jack Sparrow: A pirate troll? Excellent!
Yes there are open-minded old people too, but they are a staggering minority. They can have the women also, anyone who is lured by such promises is fickle and not worth my time anyways. I would personally impose an IQ and personality test in voting myself but the world doesn't follow my beloved Darwin, sadly.
charles caruana
Jul 9th 2010, 14:32
@Ben Dover
Again fatuous feel-good claims full of hot air. Not a single researched or statistically backed fact. The only credible points in your answer are the numbers, and they only prove you can count to three.
Is that the best you can do? Try again Mr Dover.
Ben Dover
Jul 9th 2010, 16:54
The pro argument doesn't need statistics to defend itself, because it SHOULD be firmly rooted in common sense. Pity it's not very common. I don't need statistics to see the glaring fallacy of comparing one country with it's own demographics, culture, way of life and thinking, history and ways of dealing with things with another COMPLETELY different country. All Meli did was copy/paste invalid, inapplicable and OUTDATED statistics. I don't see why anyone should hand him a gold star for spewing a poor defense in favour of a dying mentality.
If you must argue this issue, provide applicable, sensible and valid arguments to it, not "WELL THIS HERE HAPPENED IN ENGLAND!!1". Well done, you proved nothing except your lack of sense.
Besides, first you say my comments are full of hot-air, then you agree with my points (which cancel out the previous comment), and then you use a juvenile retort.
Try again, sir.
charles caruana
Jul 9th 2010, 20:09
@Ben Dover
Agree with your points? Ha Ha! I told you that they only show you can at least count up to three. That is their only value , nothing to do with their contents. Ever heard of ‘irony’? Look it up in a dictionary. Have you heard of mimetic rivalry? Look it up, you might make your responses more original.
Ben Dover
Jul 10th 2010, 02:05
Fair enough then, I see i'm dealing with a juvenile who cares only to boost his own ego. If you're going to simply point and laugh and ignore all my points, I see no point to try and reason with you. Enjoy your non-existent moral victory. NEXT!
Julian Esposito
Jul 8th 2010, 11:09
A referendum is not the right mechanism do decide whether divorce should be introduced or not. Why should the many hypothetical catholics in Malta decide the fate of someone who not necessarily shares their same beliefs? This should be a secular state and not Iran.
Frans Sammut
Jul 8th 2010, 09:43
If JPO's motivation was "to stimulate debate" he has certainly succeeded. HG the Archbishop has already shown his intention of taking part in the debate. We must wait and see what comes out of it. I am not thinking of the religious aspect, but the political one, of course.
As many would concur, the plot thickens.
Not only ... methinks the electoral campaign is already underway. Arriba! May the best man win!
Joe Fenech
Jul 8th 2010, 09:40
Har, har, har, har, har ,har, har ,har..........!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
R.Gauci
Jul 8th 2010, 09:15
It seems that a lot of people commenting on this issue are in/ voluntary ignoring a very important fact in the way JPO is forwarding his bill for the introduction of divorce in Malta and
before someone can criticize this man which had the guts to try to discuss this subject in parlament and start to scaremonger people please read well what he is proposing that is not everybody will automatically be entitled to obtain divorce by just applying for it, but some CONDITIONS will apply one of them being that at least you have to be legally separated for a minimum number of years for example 4 years (these can be more) as it in use in other European Catholic Countries such as Ireland. So no one is correct in saying that by introducing divorce with these CONDITIONS the numbers of broken marriages will increase as the couple's relationship/family will had already been broken up by living a legal separate life.
You can't break what is already broken!!
If introduced with these conditions this divorce bill will only give a chance to a person to remarry again and start living another life !!
joseph borg
Jul 8th 2010, 09:14
eeeeee now we are retracting everything, GPO must have had his ears pulled and pulled really hard if this thing turned 180 degrees in 24 hours. now his is against divorce ........
shame on the government, we have to stay living like this, poeple who did a mistake in the past have 2 choices: either pay the church (and i mean with money you can do everything) to get the marriage annulled or else live in clandestinity, that is co-habiting with a partner and not being able to remarrying.
Ben Dover
Jul 8th 2010, 12:40
Well marriage is just an expensive piece of paper teling you you're bound to the person in front of god. If you don't believe then it's no problem at all.
J Brincat
Jul 8th 2010, 09:13
I wouldn't have brushed off JPO's gesture lightly by stating that his aim was merely to stimulate debate about divorce. But what could Dr Gonzi have said? He was visably shocked as the controversary cameto him like a bolt from the blue.
But you have to admit it , JPO have guts and stands out above his peers. I admire him for the courage.
Mario Genovese
Jul 8th 2010, 09:07
I am a Catholic and as much as I can try to live up to it ...BUT...acknowledge two facts:
1. The state is not in charge of the Catholic Church. That is the job of the Vatican and the Curia. The state is in charge of ALL decent citizens who pay their taxes.
2. One cannot deny forever that unfortunate individuals who found love and care after being treated badly by their husbands/wives to regularise their social position in life. Sometimes I see people who made a true family life (both separated) and are so exemplary that I would like to be able to emulate their attitude towards the family.
carmel carbonaro
Jul 8th 2010, 08:57
Mr.Meli,you said Parlamentarians represent the electorate not the Church.
Citizens did not vote for divorce in the electoral programme because it was mot contemplated.Therefore ?
David Caruana
Jul 8th 2010, 08:54
Stimulate debate?!?!
If he jusr wanted to stimulate debate he would have not presented a PRIVATE MEMBER'S BILL, dear Prime Minister.
You know this is false, JPO's intentions were not to just stimulate debate. You've either completely lost it, or you think that as usual you can take the people of Malta for a ride.
Please keep in mind that one of the greatest achievements of your predecessor was to invest heavily in EDUCATION, so no, we are not that dumb - a private member's bill is not presented simply to stimulate debate, and you know that.
Frans Attard
Jul 8th 2010, 10:15
Prosit David Caruana
Dan jahseb li n-nies ghadhom cwiec, kif fil-fatt jixtieqhom halli jkun jista jbellghalhom li jrid.
Addio Demokrazija Kristjana.
Ghax ma jghidx li mhux kapaci jikkontrolla lin-nies ta' madwaru milli jghamlu li jridu, kemm jekk ikunu ingustizzji, korruzzjoni, u anke transfers vendikattivi.
FN Farrugia
Jul 8th 2010, 08:49
interview ta iktar min 6 minuti.. u ma hareg xej ta sugu..listess paroli vojt li lilna ma tanix sodisfazjon..bla konkluzjoni...jek kont ed tejx malta flahhar snin taf li diskusjonijit ilom isiru snin u mux issa bdew..
lucuh ta warajk jikxfuk gonz..partit fallut u bla hegga.. jekk indejjaqt warrab!!
A. Cassar Pulis
Jul 8th 2010, 08:18
We are coming to an event where the Maltese CATHOLIC people are to decide....wether if on party level or national level.
The persons who are going to opt for divorce are coming forward to get married in the Roman Catholic Church? I think this is a contradiction.
First the PN had the ardour to take Church's property, now divorce...what's next?...abortion.
I am confused what my vote will be next time.
Mark Zerafa
Jul 8th 2010, 08:59
You Maltese CATHOLICS will not be forced in any way to divorce. You will always be free to stay put forever in non-functional relationships - but then again, who knows if (God forbid) tragedy strikes and your marriage breaks down. Would you still be the same opinion?
Divorce is like a foul tasting but necessary medicine. We don't like it, but sometimes it may be the only way forward.
joseph borg
Jul 8th 2010, 07:22
how about living with the same partner for ever because you're forced to! that is frustration qalbi!!!!!!!!!
Ben Dover
Jul 8th 2010, 12:43
Just tell her off, mate. Open your eyes and realize the only thing keeping you there is yourself.
simply pack up, flip her the bird, open that door and walk out. Life's too short to waste time with all this hocus pocus ritual crap.
Ramon Casha
Jul 8th 2010, 05:27
I think it's fairly clear that JPO's aim was more than just to stimulate divorce, but to actually have divorce enacted into law.
After all, the people outside parliament have been debating divorce for ages already. They didn't need a bill to be presented to parliament to do so.
.j. schembri
Jul 8th 2010, 01:30
@ted darmanin. qieghed tiggenerizza meta tghid li il-familji are living in hell. Jiena naf hafna li ma ghadhomx flimkien u bil-mod kif jirragunaw huma jinsabu il-genna. Minflok partner wiehed li kellhom permess taz-zwieg issa ghandhom wiehed permanenti li jghixu mieghu u tnejn jew tlieta li jigi jarhom kultant. Mill-punt finanzjarju jiena ma nafx kif huma l-arrangamenti mal-partners il-godda imma dawn ma jaghtux kaz ghax jahdmu ( qed nirreferi ghan-nies) Hawn hafna jixtiequ li d-divorce jidħol f'pajjizna għal interessi pesonali taghhom u xejn aktar. Min qed jitlob li jkun hawn id-divorz tilef jew tilfet kull rispett lejn ir-religjon KAttolika Maltija u għalhekk qed jippruvaw jjghidu li dan huwa dritt civili, għax moralment huma morda.
J.Camilleri
Jul 8th 2010, 01:11
What about a Referendum and shut up all of you !
Mark Zerafa
Jul 8th 2010, 08:41
At face value, holding a referendum would be the most logical and democratic thing to do. However, divorce is a very personal choice that two people make in very personal (and often painful) circumstances. I think a referendum is not the right tool to use in this case, and I fail to see how the opinion of the general public (especially the close minded opinion of the religious bigots) should interfere with the personal decisions one may need to take in his/her private life.
C Cini
Jul 8th 2010, 00:20
Dr Gonzi is right to say that either having strong families or having divorce. Those who are saying that there is no link are really ignorant, and they do not know what has happened in other countries. It is no a question of Catholic opinion but it is the mentality that by time for future generations will crop up. Come and see what happened to marriage in other countries. Come in Italy and ask the people who 40 years ago voted yes to divorce and how is there opinion today. All those who are in favour to divorce are in favour to destroy marriage in future. The solution of divorce is not remarry but better to cohabitate since marriage in divorsist mentality is not the way young people choose. Come and see in a country like Italy before you speak and see how 80% cohabitate.
J. Mifsud
Jul 8th 2010, 00:11
I laughed my heart out when I saw the parliamentary group coming out from the PN's Headquarters. One need'nt be a good body language reader to come to the conclusion that not all is well on the western front. They tried their best in acting otherwise, but it was hilarious.
Dr Gonzi is doing his utmost and trying to do the impossible to keep the party in one whole. By giving some carrots to chew to the backbenchers, he might have bought some time, but I bet the kettle is boiling.
Dr Gonzi, there is only one solution. Call an early general election, if possible before next spring. The party is shedding votes like hell. The more time in government, the more the drain of PN votes.
I, the man in the street, and many like me can feel the disenchantment in the PN voter. The trust, the faith in the leadership is deteriorating rapidly. Dr Gonzi, I do not think you hear this from the yes-men surrounding you...........
Alfred Grima
Jul 8th 2010, 00:11
Sur Spiteri,
Ghax nahseb li dan il-gvern tant huwa perfett li ma ghandek'x x'tikritikalu!
Mil-banda l-ohra habib nahseb li hadt xi ftit zball meta ktibt dwar MLP bloggers; safejn naf jien it-tabib Mario Vassallo (li jekk ma hiniex sejjer zball huwa ex kandidat tal-PN), kif ukoll l-ex kandidata Nazzjonalista Ms Micallef Leyson, Saviour Balzan u bella kumpanija qedin kontinwament jikritika lil gvern ukoll. Allura x'tipretendi li l-bloggers tal-PL ta' din il-gazzetta sejrin joqoghdu b'halqhom maghluq? Nahseb li qieghed titlob ftit iz-zejjed siehbi?
Joseph M. Meli
Jul 7th 2010, 23:40
I am 100% in FAVOUR of divorce
Nothing, and by nothing I mean NOTHING or ANYTHING is above the STATE !
The Parliamentarians are there to represent the ELECTORATE and not the Church.
All those in the House of Representatives who put their personal believes before the Electorate should RESIGN !
A. Mizzi
Jul 7th 2010, 23:23
That's what Dr. Gonzi and his Gonzipn seems to be lacking - STIMULATION. : ) but certainly not from such unexpected, supposedly silenced quarters.
Alfred Baldacchino
Jul 7th 2010, 23:14
I would say that a divorce is more sensible than having a marriage annulled. Especially where there are children.
Dr John Baldacchino
Jul 7th 2010, 22:02
I might be reading too much in this, but it is hardly believable that no one on the Government benches knew nothing about this. Clearly JPO is trying to steal the fire from Muscat and take his initiative on divorce. Maybe I am giving him too much credit. But if he has done that then there is political acumen in his deed. However Muscat is no fool. So he is granting his Labour MPs a free vote. What will Gonzi do? JPO might be scoring an own goal if the PN does not play the same game. This has nothing to do with getting divorce through (probably there aren't enough votes). This has to do with who takes the initiative and attract moderate and liberal votes. If Gonzi is playing to his conservative constituency, JPO is playing to the liberal votes in and beyond the PN -- the same votes Muscat is playing for.
marcelle cini
Jul 7th 2010, 21:49
@Dvella
Even without divorce,marriages are breaking up.It seems you really have no idea what children go through when there are these problems .What do you suggest that children are better off witnessing the fights, the tension and the heartbreak of a failed marriage that is beyond fixing . If you haven't experienced this, than stop assuming that staying married will not cause any psychological effects on children.
MBorg
Jul 7th 2010, 21:27
@ Sciortino m
If we all want strong families, why ask for divorce ? We all know that marriages are failing but if you think that divorce will solve the problem , you are mistaken.
In every country where people are free to divorce, the divorce rate is going up, with many choosing not to marry at all. Gonzi is right we need strong families, but you are wrong in saying that the situation we are in today has anything to do with him or his party.
We are living in an age where anything goes where many have lost their moral values. Divorce will only make things worse.
sciortino m
Jul 8th 2010, 08:45
Seems you agree with me that the social policies of the government have done nothing to improve the family. Government has not done anything to stop the problem which has continued to grow unabatedly.
Without divorce marriage breakdowns in Malta have rocketed. Therefore it seems that with and without divorce marriages will fail. What remains is to give those unlucky enough to go through a failed marriage a chance to rebuild their lives.
After 23 years in government it seems to me quite pathetic to insist that you want to strengthen the family. What has the government been waiting for? We need both education to strengthen the famly and divorce to help others to build new families.
Joe Zarb
Jul 7th 2010, 21:24
Hasra li ma hawnx oppozizjoni sura hawn Malta. Jien bhall eluf ohra f'Malta la jien ahmar u lanqas blue. Izda il-verita hi li f'Malta ghandha zewg partiti kbar. Wiehed tal-PN li mhux qed jimpresjona wisq u l-iehor tal-PL li bil-materjal li hemm mhux kapaci jkun fil-gvern u hafna Maltin zgur ma jistawx jafdawhom. Ir-rizultat hu li jkollok taghzel l-ahjar fost l-aghar. Fil-kaz taghna il-Maltin sakemm ma jitfaccax oppozizzjoni serja u b'leader kapaci u mhux li tipprova tirbah il-voti b'ingann, ma tantx jibqalna wisq ghazla.
V.Briffa
Jul 9th 2010, 08:47
@ Joe Zarb
Are you sure you are a flaoting voter?
Imma kif kull haga li issir fil-pajjiz irridu indahhlu blu u ahmar! Din issue tal-Gvern presenti ... issa f'idejh! Jewillha par idejn sodi shaqna li kien hemm! Have a good day Mr Zarb ...
and if you want to be a floating voter and you see nothing that does not make sense in both parties, stay put ...
martin saliba
Jul 7th 2010, 20:29
Prime Minister Lawrence Gonzi said this afternoon that the aim behind Jeffrey Pullicino Orlando's decision to move a private member's bill for the introduction of divorce was to stimulate debate. Yes Dr. Gonzi because he knows that you never will. Now that the ball is rolloing nothing anyones dose will stop it. Time is on the side of those in favour of divorce and one day they will celebrate.
Ted Darmanin
Jul 7th 2010, 20:08
We are living in a modern European Union in which civil rights are separated from religion. We should have laws accordingly. Divorce or not , marriages still break up and the members of the family live a hell. Would Gonzi still object to divorce any of his children would have to live in this hell?
I.Tabone
Jul 7th 2010, 22:21
with all these comments on divorce am I to think that the first marriage is hell and the second marriage is heaven?
Sciortino m
Jul 7th 2010, 20:06
Everybody agrees on the need for strong families. Everybody agrees that the rate of marriage breakdowns has shot up and that for every two new marriages, one marriage fails.
The PM's insistence on the need to strengthen families is an admission of failure of the social policies of his Christian Democratic party which has been in government almost uninterruptedly for the past twenty three years.
dvella
Jul 7th 2010, 19:52
Who thinks divorce is a solution, look overseas and see their (couples) miserable lives crumble!!! Then they marry 2nd time, then 3rd ......What is the gain???? Can some genius plse tell us!! And what about their kids' psychologic effects in the long run!! Who can explain these facts!!! The 64% poll readers who condone it!!!!
Kevin Cassar
Jul 8th 2010, 01:18
That's the worst excample I've ever heard. Since when do we compare people's relationships? Each couple is made of two unique individuals who cannot be compared to someone else, not even family (with the same upbringing, education and belief) let alone with someone from abroad. I am a happily married man. The success of my marriage is due to two individuals, my wife and myself. Others have not been so lucky and I believe they should have a chance to live a happy life. Everyone does. I am not in favour of divorce but in FAVOUR OF THE RIGHT TO CHOOSE. If you fail to understand the difference, you're still free not to divorce when it is introduced.
A.Gauci Cunningham
Jul 7th 2010, 19:49
The PrimeMinister has every right to believe divorce is bad and he has every right to uphold the Christian values the PN claims to uphold. What he does not have the right to do is to insult people's intelligence in a sorry attempt to buy time. Gonzi claims that....
1-----"JPO's bill was meant to stimulate discussion"---Rubbish!!! JPO presented a bill for it to be discussed and for a vote to be taken at the end of that same discussion. Parliament is not a tea shop where a couple of guys meet up and chat to their hearts content over a pastizz and a cuppa. Parliament is the place where after an in debth analysis of a law or a policy or a reform a clear stand is taken by each MP through his vote. If you want to stimulate discussion rent a mob, say something provocative and....voila...."discussion"!!
2----"We should call a referendum"---Call a referendum?? Since when does the happily married majority decide for the minority whose marriage failed? Oh yes!! I know!!...since we've (unknowingly) elected a Pontius Pilate for a PrimeMinister!!!
Tony Caruana
Jul 7th 2010, 19:34
Jien kont naf li Gonzi ma jisthix imma din ma titwemnix.
Tell us another on Dott
C.camilleri
Jul 7th 2010, 19:34
The body language of those around Dr.Gonzi says it all. PN got problems.
Charles Galea
Jul 7th 2010, 19:09
I have my doubts about JPO's aim. But it certainly surprises many to see the NP presenting this proposal in parliament. First, it was never listed in the NP electoral manifesto; second, it makes me forget the "religio et patria" which seems to have been buried decades ago! Where are the values that Malta wanted to safeguard and to export to Europe? My perception is that we are living in a banana republic dominated by Pharisees.
l.farrugia
Jul 7th 2010, 19:01
@Anthony Dimech JPO kull ma qieghed jaghmel huwa li jiddefendi l-istat li jinsabu huwa personali u ta dawk li huma bhalu. Ma jistax jghid li huwa Kattoliku Ruman u jaghmel dawn l-affarijiet. Min-naha l-oħra jista jghid li huwa Kristjan li hemm differeneza.
M.G. Farrugia
Jul 7th 2010, 18:58
@Brendam Bonnici, daqshekk ukoll jista jkun oġġettiv min kien mizzewweg u z-zwieg tkisser it-tort tas-sieheb jew siebha u issa għax minghalih rega ġie liberu ghax infirdu jista jiehu id-divors. Jiena mizzewweg u għal grazja ta Alla kelli u ghandi zwieg hieni u ma niddejjaqx nghid u ghalhekk qieghed niddefendi iz-zwieg. dawk li qed jiktbu u jappoġġaw il-mozzjoni a' JPO tajjeb jghbidulna l-istat li qed fih aħalli inkunu nafu min qieghed jaghti l-appoġġ
Charles Massa
Jul 7th 2010, 18:54
Din ta divorzju hilja loghba tal PN. . Fil pajjiz tant hawn problemi li gvern irid jaljena l poplu b diskussjoni fuq id divorzju . Kumbinazzjoni din il mozzjoni tressqet meta kwazi spiccat il world cup u l poplu jerga jibda jitkelle,m fuq il pizijiet il Gonzi pn wahhal lil familji.
Andrew Farrugia
Jul 7th 2010, 18:49
If , according to The Times poll, 64.2% - an overwhelming majority are in favour of the introduction of divorce, i see no problem in holding a referendum on the issue. Surely, according to some commenters the results of the poll are sufficient to ask the PM to "deal with it and listen to the people". If this is their view, why not have a referendum? What is the problem?
C.Sammut
Jul 7th 2010, 18:33
JPO's aim is to garner the popularity votes he had lost his party...nothing more.
Brendan Bonnici
Jul 7th 2010, 18:20
U kif qatt jista' l-ex president tal-Azzjoni Kattolika jkun oggettiv f'dibattitu fuq id-divporzju? Daqs kemm jista' l-Prim Ministru tal-Iran imur kontra l-Ayatollah! Nies bhal Dr Gonzi qatt ma jistghu jkunu leaders tajbin ta' pajjiz ghax l-idejat taghhom huma konservattivi u antikwati.
Darren Cassar
Jul 7th 2010, 18:25
Prosit Brendan
Ilqatt il musmar fuq rasu.
M Vella
Jul 7th 2010, 19:33
Very good argument Brendan PROSIT
Joseph Calleja
Jul 7th 2010, 18:06
I think JPO is the scapegoat for the PN. The PN saw the subject of d-i-v-o-r-c-e coming from the other side and decided to jump ahead of the competition. So JPO as a dedicated PN/ MP decided to take the fall. Is JPO the hero or the scapegoat? Is JPO being used by the party as a front or is he acting as an independent MP? Divorce will not come to Malta, at least not as long as this administration is in power, because this administration is dictated too by outside interference. Let the people speak and let them have a say on what they think about introducing divorce in Malta after all, this affects all of us, the people. Let's put it to a vote.
Karl Consiglio
Jul 7th 2010, 18:05
Dear PM,
I believe JPO was not just trying to stimulate the debate, I was of the belief that he, like myself, actually wants to have it become a living reality as elsewhere in the civilized world.
Kurt G Pace
Jul 7th 2010, 18:03
Oh what a sight. Mr No, backed by his Yes men. The do gooders. Whot a plonker!!!
Julian Esposito
Jul 7th 2010, 17:56
At the moment in the Times Of Malta poll 64.2% are in favour of divorce while 30.7 are against. Deal with it and listen to the people.
K. Pullicino
Jul 7th 2010, 17:56
Who decides what is and isn't a civil right? Is it only because everyone else is doing it and so we feel we should also have a go at it?
Also, I fear this country is turning into a bunch of sophists with no one appreciating the value of morality. And that was never a good thing.
Karl Consiglio
Jul 7th 2010, 17:53
With all his apparant concern for the family, our PM doesn't seem to understand that with or without divorce a shattered family is a shattered family, so let us have divorce so as those involved may move on. Now by saying that I don't mean that someone has the right to wake up comfortably one fine morning and decide he/she wants a divorce, the reasons have to be justified.
Mark Zerafa
Jul 7th 2010, 17:52
I will NEVER vote Nationalist again until this Party ceases to be a a puppet in the hands of the Church
I'll say it again:
I will NEVER vote Nationalist again until this Party ceases to be a a puppet in the hands of the Church
Laurence Gonzi wants to impose Catholic values on the rest of us. Laurence Gonzi therefore, lacks the credentials to provide us with the breath of fresh air that this country so badly needs.
It's time to change.This time, I'm voting Labour.
Jack Sparrow
Jul 7th 2010, 19:36
Mela minn got-tagen ghal gon-nar siehbi.
Joseph MELI
Jul 7th 2010, 17:48
British Criminologist namely Dr. Patricia Morgan, a effected an important study and she stated that after effecting her studies in U.K. - USA,...she discovered a clear link between the braking-up of families and criminality. National Development Study held in 1975 on 18,000 young children before they became sixteen years, the majority had already appeared before the court for some criminal offense. The result on boys was as follows:-
8 % those who lived with natural parents (divorced)
16 % coming from single mothers.
19 % coming from women living with another man (divorced or separated)
70 % of those in prison came from families without a natural father (broken families)
Criminality in the Britain had increased enormously recently. The reason was that the year 1975 she quoted this because it was near the year when divorce was being introduced also in other European...countries.
This problem could now..also be seen in Malta. In such...reports they stated that...“the cohabiting parents with young children were more than twice as likely as married parents to split..up, regardless of age, income and other socio-economic background factors.” Should we..then study these facts too?
Ron Saliba
Jul 7th 2010, 18:03
no, because it does no make any difference whether there is divorce or not. Couples are still seperating
maria curmi
Jul 7th 2010, 17:46
PAR IDEJN SODI NO TO DIVORCE
Jesmond Micallef
Jul 7th 2010, 17:45
Divorce is never a solution. A basic unit of a society is the family. Malta is a very small island nation and can prove to be a very significant advantage in this regard. Problems exist, and I know that some famlies are better off living under different roofs. Dysfunctional married couples can do more harm to thier children and tend to think that these are as damaging as single parents !! This divorce issue is not an easy matter indeed, but the concepts of marriage and family need to be protected, if not enhanced. There are people in society who struggle in life simply because thier own upbringing was a complete nightmare at times. Dsyfunctional parents ruin their own childrens lives. We see these via the failed marriages or relationships of thier own. Dysfunctionality brings about more dysfunctionality. Divorce is not a solution, but a very proper healthy and sound preparation to married life is. This is the way forward and quite frankly, I see no other alternative.
Needless to say, but this is only my own opinion.
R spiteri
Jul 7th 2010, 17:37
@ MLP bloggers
I read with a smile your attacks every single day criticising the Government on any issue....whatever the topic, you criticise.....please stop it, for your own good sake.
Darren Cassar
Jul 7th 2010, 17:57
Dear R Spiteri
I personally don't take sides with any party as I think it is impossible in Malta to take sides based on political principles. IN my opinion sides in Malta are taken based on favors at other honest and hard working citizen's expense. However one cannot but criticize and pity the low level politics and running of this country with the current prime minister.
The real problem is that 25 years in power have now taken their toll.
R spiteri
Jul 7th 2010, 18:19
@ Darren Cassar
I can't understand what your reply has to do with my comment.
I also cannot understand why the majority voted for EU membership and to have PM Gonzi lead Malta and not Alfred Sant. Do you honestly think that such results were due to personal favours?! Do you honestly believe that?!
It's not 25 years in power. 12 years ago there was Labour in Government and I had no stipend, thanks to Labour.
Darren Cassar
Jul 7th 2010, 18:34
My point is that the current government is in power because people simply did not want Sant.
This does not necessarily make Gonzi a good leader.
Secondly I do not consider myself a MLP supporter in fact i come from a nationalist family and celebrated 1987 victory. However this government in my opinion is too weak and the baddies of the party have taken over just as happened to the 80s labour government.
In 2010, the governance standards should be much higher and I feel offended by the PM s comments after such a meeting.
The whole point is that not only LP supporters are criticizing this legislature but anyone with a sense of good will.
Darren Cassar
Jul 7th 2010, 17:34
1) What should we care about your personal opinion. Divorce is a civil right and should be introduced without further discussion. What is there to discuss anyway? perhaps how it would effect the next elections.
2) JPO did not make this move to simulate a discussion which would take ages to conclude, but one which leads to the introduction of divorce within this year at most.
3) What does the strengthening of families has to do with the divorce issue. Do you want to strengthen the marriage of a separated couple?? what's the logic. Do you strengthen the family by promoting women working and increasing the water/electricity tarrifs??
So according to our PM you'r either in favour of strengthening the family or in favour of divorce.
Why can't a person be in favour both. Probably to politicize the issue and as usually happens in Malta to create sides
Conclusively I'm sorry to say but fear to tackle such an issue is so clear. The best thing that everybody is smiling in the background to show how happy we all are.
gaffarena joseph
Jul 7th 2010, 17:28
Kulltant nibda nahseb u nghid imma f minn irrid li jkolli fiducja jien.
Xbajt nisma bil valuri insara,li naf fi zgur hu, illi jekk ikollok tifel jew tifla ta xi ras kbiera ,l annulament tiehdu fl iqsar zmien possibli, U NGHID JIEN,x hemm specjali f annulament u divorsju.Ghalfejn noqodu inpingu id divorsju qisu xi mostru.
Il prim ministru ma jaqbilx,so what,allura ghandu jigbed lill poplu warajh, u kullhadd jghid iva.
Il hajja qasira,u hasra li koppji, minhabba l egoizmu tal knisja, ikollom jistennow snin twal ghall dan l imbierek annulament.
Jien kburi, illi membru parlamentari bhall Jeffrey Orlando Pullicino, kellhu il kuragg, li ghamel dan il private bill.B minn irrid inkun kuntent jien, bil hafna yes men,li mohhhom hu biss x jakkwistaw?
Din mhux kwistjoni ta referendum anqas,din kwistjoni illi bhall issa hemm mijiet ta koppji li ma sabux xorti fi zwieg,u ghandom id dritt illi issibu sieheb jew siehba ohra ghall din il hajja minghajr sens li fadlilna.
Kullhadd irrid jiddatta il hajja personali ta haddiehor.Valuri insara,hemm bzonn li dawn il valuri jghaddu minn gharbiel fin hafna.
Adriano Spiteri
Jul 7th 2010, 17:14
Shifting and twitching of arguments.
A PM that kept a toe-hold to administration by a mere 1500 votes.
A minority-Government, so-called 'Nationalist'.
This country deserves better, far better.
j mallia.
Jul 7th 2010, 17:48
There is no one better. Especially if you had Mr Muscat in mind.
Peter Bonnici
Jul 7th 2010, 18:00
True, it deserves a far better opposition that can win an election every once in a while.
Peter Vella
Jul 7th 2010, 18:03
If you bother to look up the definition of "minority government" you would find that it means that the governing party does not have a majority of seats in parliament. Clearly this is not the case, so please be correct. Simply calling this government a minority government does not make it one.
Vincent Galea
Jul 7th 2010, 17:13
In order to good my dear Jeffrey personally and in order to support social policies that do good what humans need even more than a good heart is wisdom.
That is why we are in a morally confused world.
If you want good for the people to prevail the key is wisdom.That is why we have a minimum voting age.
We once understood that as good a young person can be goodness was not enough to be able to choose our leaders or to be one.
Without wisdom you can be nice and kind, but you will not do nearly as much good as your good heart would like you to do.
A. Borg
Jul 7th 2010, 17:12
JPO ghamel pass il-quddiem u Dr.Gonzi ghamel mija lura!
P Chetcuti
Jul 7th 2010, 16:59
Even if it means shooting down the fundamental right of our representatives to present a member's bill, Gonzi has confirmed that the Nationalist Party is going to do anything possible to stop JPO from pursuing the divorce cause.
Lawrence Gonzi is against a party member presenting a private bill in Parliament, even though the mp's views have long been known by the electorate who voted for him and the party itself.
Why is Gonzi's afraid to speak the NP views on this crucial urgent issue?
Could it because Gonzi would be then directly stating that JPO has no place within the PN? I bet he have been waiting for this moment since the last general election - what is he waiting to weed him out and show the electorate what an outdated conservative party PN is?
Peter Vella
Jul 7th 2010, 18:10
It's simple the PN does not have a mandate from its voters to introduce divorce legislation so it cannot democratically support the private member's bill. Such important legislation has to be either part of an electoral programme or the subject to of a referendum - such was the case with Independence and EU membership. All this show how empty and meaningless Joseph Muscat's promise to allow a free vote on divorce. Well done JPO for pulling the carpet from under him.
Oscar Cassar
Jul 8th 2010, 00:51
'Independence' u 'EU membership' kienu decizjonijiet purament politici. F'dan il-kas is-suggett huwa wiehed ta' natura socjali u li mhux xi ligi (introduzzjoni) GDIDA fil-ligijiet taghna izda sempliciment tigi tkun qed tigi reveduta ligi ta 1971 li tirrikonnoxxi Divorzju moghti minn qorti barranija izda mhux qorti lokali. Jekk nibqghu kif qedin, nkunu qed naghmlu ingustizzja ma min ma jiflahx jaghmel mod iehor finanzjarjament, filwaqt li ohrajn komdi....
Kurt G Pace
Jul 7th 2010, 16:58
Then stop dragging your feet!!!.. What are you waiting for? You say we will debate. Then DEBATE. Move it....