Hindus' concern on religious equality in Malta noted by fundamental rights agency
The European Union Agency for Fundamental Rights (FRA) has “taken note” of Hindus’ concern about equality of religions in Malta.
In a response to the communiqué of Bhavna Shinde of Forum for Hindu Awakening, the FRA thanked the forum for drawing its attention to the Maltese Criminal Code, which made one liable to imprisonment of up to six months for publicly vilifying the Roman Catholic religion.
The FRA said it did investigate such issues as part of its data collection and if the concern reported was applicable, it was noted in its annual report of the following year.
On this issue, Hindus recently approached various bodies of European Union, Council of Europe, European Parliament; the European and Malta ombudsmen; the President and other government offices; as well as the Archdiocese of Malta, urging them to “ensure that Malta treats all religions and denominations equally in front of the law”.
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Joe Zammit
Jun 27th 2010, 10:56
Let me say a word about criminal law. This law is different from civil law because while civil law looks at civil relations and finds a remedy to problems arising from such relations, the criminal law looks at what HARMS society as a whole. It takes into account also individuals but as part of society. So in criminal law we find laws that protect our society from all types of dangers.
Besides, every criminal law is always sanctioned by imprisonment and/or fine (multa jew ammenda). The punishment is proportional to the offence. So, let's take our Catholic Religion. Since the great majority of Maltese and Gozitans are Catholic (and not Hindus for that matter), an offence against our Religion, offending the majority, must be far greater than an offence against, say the Hindu religion where its members here in Malta amount to a few.
The logical and legal conclusion is that the punishment for an offence against the Roman Catholic Religion must be bigger than that for an offence against any other religion.
Kenneth Zammit Tabona
Jun 26th 2010, 19:12
How exhausting this is! I will have to repeat AD NAUSEAM that there is no way any other religion other than the Roman Catholic one will be treated equally by the state till it is ingrained in the Constitution. Whatever the qualifications that came afterwards it will always be PRIMUS INTER PARES; first among equals, and no other religion can replace it or be at par with it although all this hobnobbing by Archbishop Cremona with the Imam rather annoys me!
JOe VELLa
Jun 26th 2010, 15:47
@Jeremy J. Camilleri
Without any doubt TRUTH is subjective! ask Pontious Pilate, after all he came with those famous words: "What is Truth?"
One of the few truth that cannot be questioned is the one that say: ''The day we are born the closer we get to the day we die''. (no lecturing) OK!
JeremyJ Camilleri
Jun 26th 2010, 16:50
Can't ask Pontius Pilate..Can you?
JOe VELLa
Jun 26th 2010, 14:07
@Jeremy J Camilleri
Sorry if you assumed I was trying to lecture yours truly. I promise you I had no intention to do so.
However your statement that you spent your childhood abroad SAY IT ALL.
My children spent their childhood abroad too, while I was living there. And when they where knocking doors for Halloween and free candiesor enjoying Santa parades, I was on the picket line and facing the locals who I repeat I do not need to ruffle any feathers it was not easy especially when they got drunk and their mouth got loose. If your childhood impressed you over there my experience seem to be different, surely lecturing people like you would do you some good to come close to the truth!
Jeremy J Camilleri
Jun 26th 2010, 14:40
The truth is always subjective.
David Caruana
Jun 26th 2010, 12:03
@ Joe Zammit:
"The logical and legal conclusion is that the punishment for an offence against the Roman Catholic Religion must be bigger than that for an offence against any other religion."
Your "logic" has no democratic or moral logic! And you call yourself Christian?!
In your own reasoning, minorities should be treated as second class citizens, right?
Dr Francis Saliba
Jun 26th 2010, 13:36
@Joe Zammit
Minorities should be treated as the minorities they actually are by definition. They should not expect to be promoted over the heads of the majority. The democratic type of government is rule by the majority with respect for minority views. It is just not possible to have a simultaneous rule by the majority and by the minority. A choice must be made one way or the other and obviously that choice has to be in favour of the majority. Sticking labels of "first class" and "second class" is irrelevant - we are not dealing with railway coaches here.
JOe VELLa
Jun 26th 2010, 11:55
@Joe Zammit
Am I correct to assume when you advised Jeremy to go to Santa Lucia because Jesus will be waiting for him!
Wow man, I taught when we mention that name we mentioned it with reverence, if you are so sure that He will be found their as you claim, do give me the place as I am trying to get as close to him as possible. Unfortunately I never found him in our Cathedrals where we have to pay to enter or in some wooden statue made by man.
JOe VELLa
Jun 26th 2010, 11:48
@Jeremy J. Camilleri
Your remarks of bigotry, racism, xenophobia in Maltese Catholics is a bit too much! either you never have been abroad or if you have been you closed both eyes and ears. I can vouch from my own experience your references you made to the local Catholics, I experienced it because I opened my mouth and said I am an R.C.
This is human nature and it is a pity it is found all over the world be it in Hindu, Moslem Christian country or what have you.
Jeremy J Camilleri
Jun 26th 2010, 13:02
Joe VElla, actually, I spent my chldhood abroad so please don't try to lecture...I was never discriminated against.
Strange comment you make...You claim that xenophobia and bigotry are human nature, and as such should be accepted...so is casual sex....but that surely ruffles your feathers!
lgalea
Jun 26th 2010, 11:46
The European Union Agency for Fundamental Rights (FRA) knows where to shove their investigation and opinion.
Charles Sammut
Jun 26th 2010, 11:43
There is no such thing as a 'peaceful religion'. They all preach peace and then stir up hate. It's in their nature, cannot be otherwise. A religion, by its very nature, claims to be the only true one. Its god/s the only one/s. The others must be false. There can never be reconciliation between them. It would defeat their raison d'être. The only peace is 'no religion'.
The sooner all references to god and religion are expunged from the Constitution and legislation, the better.
Chev Chris Galea
Jun 26th 2010, 11:28
Our friends- the Forum for Hindu Awakening should also note the Indian discrimination and constant physical attacks on Christian missions and Indian citizens who are Christian. Something which happened quite recently after plenty of false allegations.
I thank the Hindu Awakening Forum for waking me up. I intend to give them plenty of lectures when they want.
Joe Zammit
Jun 26th 2010, 10:59
Let me say a word about criminal law. This law is different from civil law because while civil law looks at civil relations and finds a remedy to problems arising from such relations, the criminal law looks at what HARMS society as a whole. It takes into account also individuals but as part of society. So in criminal law we find laws that protect our society from all types of dangers.
Besides, every criminal law is always sanctioned by imprisonment and/or fine (multa jew ammenda). The punishment is proportional to the offence. So, let's take our Catholic Religion. Since the great majority of Maltese and Gozitans are Catholic (and not Hindus for that matter), an offence against our Religion, offending the majority, must be far greater than an offence against, say the Hindu religion where its members here in Malta amount to a few.
The logical and legal conclusion is that the punishment for an offence against the Roman Catholic Religion must be bigger than that for an offence against any other religion.
Charles Sammut
Jun 26th 2010, 12:05
"....an offence against our Religion, offending the majority, must be far greater than an offence against, say the Hindu religion where its members here in Malta amount to a few. "
That's rich coming from a staunch Catholic. Didn't Jesus teach you to consider every human being as your brother or sister? And did he not say "Whatever you do to the least of my brothers and sisters, you do unto me."? (Matthew 25.40)
All religons are equal but Catholicism is more equal than others. What an Animal Farm.
renald williams
Jun 26th 2010, 10:50
Once I read, that worldy respected, non violent Hindu, Mr Mahatma Gandhi, read the Words of Jesus, and urged his followers to do so also. May Christians also, read the four Gospels. Peace and health... Jesus said...Heaven and earth will pass away, but My words will not pass away. Matthew 24:35, Mark 13:31, Luke 21:33.
David Caruana
Jun 26th 2010, 10:42
As a Maltese non-Catholic I thank the Bhavna Shinde of Forum for Hindu Awakening for drawing attention to this issue.
Joseph Micallef
Jun 26th 2010, 10:33
"...which you makes liable.." is still gibberish!
Joseph Cauchi
Jun 26th 2010, 10:28
How come that only now this Bhavna Shinde of Forum for Hindu Awakening has opened its mouth when in Malta we have been living with the Indian Hindu Community for the past almost one hundred years?
The Indian Hindu Community in Malta never ever had any problems with the Maltese authority as they have always been law-abiding citizens and only concerned themselves in their own affairs, such as running retail businesses in Valletta and never interfered in the Maltese way of life.
They understood that when in Rome they do as the Romans do!
So, please may I kindly tell this Bhavna Shinde of Forum for Hindu Awakening to MIND THEIR OWN BUSINESS and let the Maltese take care of their way of life, themselves, as they have been doing so successfully for the past millennia!
All this Bhavna Shinde of Forum for Hindu Awakening is only trying to stir up trouble in Malta, where it never existed!
Hands Off Malta, please.
JC.
Franco Farrugia
Jun 26th 2010, 10:51
It's not a question of 'Hands off Malta, please', as if the Hindus are going to take over Malta. Why don't you go and say it to the Muslims in front of Archbishop Cremona? - he seems to be hobnobbinbg with them, of late! What the Hindu group is saying here is that IN THE EYES OF THE LAW, all religions are equal and the State should not legally give any preferential treatment to any Faith. Please, do not discuss this any further or else I will be gently accusing you that you are using religion to further push peoples apart!
Jeremy J Camilleri
Jun 26th 2010, 09:58
Nothing like a call for Religious equality to bring out the bigotry, racism, and xenophobia in Maltese Catholics.
I really wonder, do they even know what Christ was all about...well..I don't wonder...they don't.
Most comments here would not have been out of place at a Mussolini rally.
David Caruana
Jun 26th 2010, 10:27
Well said!
Joe Zammit
Jun 26th 2010, 10:48
Jeremy, the great majority of Maltese and Gozitans are Catholic and are satisfied with their Criminal Law as it stands. It protects both Catholics and members of other churches as well. This Bhavna Shinde must have some hidden agenda. Jeremy, remember to pop in your beautiful church at Santa Lucia because Jesus will be waiting for you.
Jeremy J Camilleri
Jun 26th 2010, 10:52
Joe Zammit, You are certainly not the right person to lecture about Jesus....You would be more at home on a US pay tv, Religion for sale, rant programme.
Ps..What made you think I d be popping into Churches just because you told me to?
I m allergic to hypocrisy actually, so that would make my visit rather painful....
Dr Francis Saliba
Jun 26th 2010, 11:07
The bigotry is all on your part not on the part of Catholic Maltese who freely allow foreigners of all religions and of all irreligiosity to have their say. These foreign meddlers must concede that we have an equal right to express our own disagreement with their unjust criticism. This applies with great emphasis when Hindu hypocrites criticise the wording of our laws when in their India Moslems and Christians are regularly slaughtered and their homes and churches burnt to the ground.
Apart from blind hate for your fellow countrymen's religion there could be no excuse for your hostility towards our defence of our laws and our religion
Salvu Schembri
Jun 26th 2010, 12:41
Jeremy J Camilleri, are these Hindu after making their beliefs as protected as the Catholic religion so that if anyone does not allow a cow to do whatever she pleases they will accuse us of vilifying their religion? What is their hidden agenda?
Jeremy J Camilleri
Jun 26th 2010, 12:59
Salvu Schembri...The Hidden agenda is that Hindus are having secrets meetings with the Loch Ness monster, Elvis, and Hitler, and shall take over Malta...'evil Laughter'
Dr Francis Saliba.... All your hullabaloo about what happens in India doesn't really make sense...Two wrongs never make a right...as I said earlier, that reasoning is an eye for an eye mentally, totally contrary to Christ's teachings. Of course, this eye for an eye mentally is totally inline with your usual online comments, so I am not surprised.
What the Hindus really want is for their religion to have the same protection that the Roman Catholic religion has. No more no less...Of course, I disagree, but for other reasons, as I find it medieval that anyone can face 6 months in Jail for vilifying any religion.
Of course, for all the 'worried' Catholics, if you are not in the habit of vilifying other religions, then you need no tworry.
Dr Francis Saliba
Jun 26th 2010, 14:05
@JeremyJCamilleri
Local Hindus have no legitimate grounds to complain about our laws and their observance. The foreign Hindus of this agency cannot pretend to be ignorant of the fate of Christians and Moslems being regularly burnt alive and bludgeoned to death in such Hindu countries as India. Unless they are consummate hypocrites they should be expressing their horror at their co-religionists murderous treatment of other religions. Their double standard is outrageous.
The "hullabaloo" is not being raised by me. You are showing a deep blinkered antagonism to your compatriots' official religion and you are allowing this bias to cloud your judgment.
Jeremy J Camilleri
Jun 26th 2010, 14:41
Re read your comments, read teh NEw Testament, then talk to me about double standards.
Dr Francis Saliba
Jun 27th 2010, 09:16
I know what I have written. Nowhere did I recommend that we Maltese Catholics be allowed to hack to death Hindus or to burn down their places of worship in retaliation for that Hindu custom in India. Therefore I am not advocating any eye for an eye, toth for a tooth mentality. That is your deliberate and easily spotted deception.
I am a daily reader and student of the NT bible. I do not need your advice to read the bible. I can smell the devil pretending to cite scripture as soon as I read the attempted deception.
Joe Zammit
Jun 27th 2010, 10:59
Jeremy, remember you have the date of death written on your head. You shall change your opinion abruptly.
Mark-Anthony Falzon
Jun 26th 2010, 09:47
I've made this point before, seems worth repeating. The quotes around 'Hindus' are the key to The Times report. There is no such thing as an organised and/or centralised Hinduism. We've had Hindus in Malta for almost 150 years, and they've never 'interfered' in any aspect of 'our' religion. Most are respected members of Maltese society. They just pray to different Gods and mind their own business. The hope is that they remain free to do so.
M Pace
Jun 26th 2010, 09:12
What are some Hindus foreigners (not those who have been living in Malta for ages) up to. Are they trying to stir up trouble and problems.In my country Malta, the Catholic Religion is mostly being attacked and I have never in my life here has anuone attacked or insulted the Hindu Religion. So what are they talking about. It is better for the EUA to be concerned how the Hindus are massacareing Christians. Leave us alone please and let us live in peace do not stir up trouble we have always tolerated other religions. Our only troubles concerning religion and traditions are in Village festas between clubs.
R. Caruana
Jun 26th 2010, 08:43
Anyone guess what the penalty is for vilifying the Hindu religion, say, in India?
I wonder!
Dr Francis Saliba
Jun 26th 2010, 10:29
No need to ask what the law says. If you are a Moslem (and quite often even if you are a Christian) in India or other Hindu state your place of worship, your house, your family and yourself could be burnt alive and slaughtered with the police idly watching. Ask the Christians of Orissa state.
P Agius
Jun 26th 2010, 08:35
He is only expressing his views....Give him a chance at least....Hinduism is one of the world's peacful religions.
David Caruana
Jun 26th 2010, 08:27
The real pity is that it should be the Maltese non-Catholics who should be making enough pressure to “ensure that Malta treats all religions and denominations equally in front of the law”.
For starters, I propose that any Maltese national who subscribes to a different faith other than Catholicsm should hang symbols that represent his/her faith in public places he / she uses or works at. If crucifixes are allowed in public places, other symbols should be allowed too and whoever tries to remove them would be liable for religious discrimination.
Edwin Mifsud
Jun 26th 2010, 08:17
I did not hear anyone complain that Algeria was waving their national flag at the World cup!
If a crucifix insults muslims a crescent should offend Christians.
Would life not be better if we just all stop nit picking?
JOe VELLa
Jun 26th 2010, 07:23
Some time ago someone said in his mail that the EU can not override our Constitution with regard to the issue of the Cross in schools.
I see the EU is up to its name again playing with words to impose, we did not bargain for this NON SENSE.
Will someone think what next for the south of Europe always for the Good of us I assume. Sound familiar.
victor pulis
Jun 26th 2010, 06:39
I suspect a hidden agenda in all of this as Hinduism has never been persecuted, discriminated against or indeed noticed in Malta. The Hindu community in Malta has always been respected and can boast of some of the most successful businessmen on the island. So why all this fuss now?
Jeremy J Camilleri
Jun 26th 2010, 03:19
T Camilleri....Who told you that there arnt Maltese Nationals who are Hindus?...That makes it THEIR internal affair...
Regarding all those folks mentioning what happens in India...I hope you don't call yourselves Catholics and state that you believe in Christ...cos you are really quoting the eye for an eye law that Christ tried to change..Didn't work with you lot did it? L aqwa l vara u l kurcifiss HIIIIIIIIIII!!!!!!!!
Steven Smith, if you have Hindus and Muslims in the Uk, I suggest you have a look at your history....Of course you have them in the UK...after years of exploiting and enslaving Muslims and Hindus in their own countries, what did you expect?
T Camilleri
Jun 26th 2010, 11:37
Jeremy J Camilleri Since when does a tiny minority expect the vast majority to bend to its wishes? They have never had any problems and if I remember correctly some time ago when the same issue was raised the local Hindu community disassociated themselves from the Bhavna Shinde of Forum for Hindu Awakening.
As for the European Union Agency for Fundamental Rights (FRA), they have no right to interfere in our Constitution and criminal law and they should be disregarded.
Joe Zammit
Jun 26th 2010, 03:04
The great majority of Maltese and Gozitans are Catholic and want to maintain their Criminal Law as it is with regard to the protection of their Catholic Religion. No person, no European Law, no European Court, no European Parliament, no Council of Europe will ever change what the great majority of Maltese and Gozitans want.
maria aquilina
Jun 26th 2010, 01:03
Malta belongs to the Maltese,so please do not dictate to us what we should do.Pespect your Religion yes,but please nobody has any right to impose on us. When we go to another country we abide by its laws.If you do not like it leave it. As the Australian primeminister said to all foreigner:you are welcome here but please obey our laws.If not leave the country.If we do show that we are not strong and give in to anything ,in the very near future we will be forigners in our own land. We have to be very carefull. The maltese fertility rate is falling and we shall soon be outnumbered by foreigners who come here and have children.Their fertility rate is very high.They will have a right to education and jobs.
Jason Borg
Jun 25th 2010, 23:38
Rubbish!
d. borg
Jun 25th 2010, 22:50
Xi haga hekk malajr taqbez l-EU. Ara meta tlabnihom jinvestigaw fuq il-bicca tas-sajjieda tat-tonn, ma ridux jidhlu fiha. Ghamlulna pjacir u tindahlux!
H Zammit
Jun 25th 2010, 22:37
Maybe the Bhavna Shinde can send the Maltese Government a copy of the indian law so that we can copy it and adopt it as our law.
F.Fenech
Jun 25th 2010, 22:26
hindus if you do not like things as they are in our country, do us a favour and leave, but what ever you do , do not interfere in what happens in our religion, We are happy with our religion and it will remain so, notwithstanding any foriegn interference.
jcamilleri
Jun 25th 2010, 22:21
Will the FRA please respect our integrity? At least if Christians are not respected in India they would be respected in Malta.
Peter Wood
Jun 25th 2010, 21:33
WHEN IN ROME!!!!!
Dr Francis Saliba
Jun 25th 2010, 21:15
The Bhavna Shinde of Forum for Hindu Awakening would better concern itself with the recurrent Moslem-Hindu blooddy massacres and mutual destruction of mosques and temples in which Christians are drawn unwillingly!
T Camilleri
Jun 25th 2010, 21:12
Hindus and others stop interfering with our internal affairs.
We are not interfering in yours so shut up and leave us alone.
Joseph Attard
Jun 26th 2010, 02:06
Relative to Mr. Camiller comment, I believe all Citizen are entitled to voice their opinion freely and without any animus or fear. I find your comment offense. As a modern state Malta should update this particular statute and build a wall between church and state. Statutes vilifying religion are a thing of the past and should be repealed. The Catholic church has done enough damage in its history in Malta. The time of a fuedal princely church in Malta .. equivalent to today's Taliban.. is over . Get over it.
T Camilleri
Jun 26th 2010, 11:43
Joseph Attard Whether you find my comments offensive or not is not my concern. Foreigners should stop trying to interfere in our internal affairs. The vast majority in Malta are Catholic and no organization that purports to represent another religion has any right to interfere in our internal affairs. So yes, that is the way to show them that we do not want their interference. If they don't like it too bad because they have no say in our country and our affairs.
Mike F Abbot
Jun 27th 2010, 10:02
T Camilleri
you seem to be confusing religion and where people are from. Malta is a country and does not belong to catholics - it just happens to be predominantly catholic. It BELONGS to the Maltese, who are free to be what they want to be, catholic, hindu, whatever.
The point is we need to protect that freedom and not promote the idea of a theocratic state - as you are doing right now. Is it a theocratic state, with all the fundamental trimmings, you want?
Stephen Farrugia
Jun 25th 2010, 21:01
Where is KZT or ABC ? Defenders of the faith or fundamental human rights ?
I suggest a few T-shirts in black.
Yes to illegal immigration.
No to other religions with equal rights.
No to fundamental rights.
Yes to multi-culturism.
Yes to freedom of speech.
No to the fundamental rights of NL.
Yes Nationalist but Liberal.
What contradictions .......... next ... ;)
Albert Fenech
Jun 25th 2010, 20:45
May we have a statement from the Bhavna Shinde of Forum for Hindu Awakening that Indian Law respects the equal rights of Christians and Muslims in India? As far as I know Christian communities in India are heavily persecuted and have little or no recourse to legal rights. We have had a Hindu community in our midst in Malta for many, many decades and I do not believe there has been any persecution or discrimination against them. In fact, they are well integrated into Maltese society whilst preserving and practicing their own Hindu beliefs - which is as it should be.
steven smith
Jun 25th 2010, 20:43
appeal to malta...dont do it otherwise it will go down the same road as the uk...scared to upset the hindus, muslims etc, next you wont be able to display your national flag, again like the uk., im all for freedom etc but foreign nationals have got to respect your laws and religions like we have to in many foreign countries. enough said :)
Peter Wood
Jun 26th 2010, 07:45
Exactly Right Steven !