Muslims and Catholics unite against ‘negative' media and same-sex marriage
Archbishop Paul Cremona this morning called for the State to help couples prepare for marriage due to an increase in couples deciding against faith marriages.
Speaking at the opening session of a seminar intended to discuss the role of the family from a Muslim and Christian perspective, organised by the World Islamic Call Society, he also said that the media needed to be used to promote messages in favour of marriage stability.
He said moral support should be offered to people who are trying to overcome difficult moments in their marriage, not only those who want to separate.
Mgr. Cremona said according to the Christian tradition marriage was between a man and a woman, created in the image of God with equal dignity, where the spouse was a gift from God the father.
He said the Church needed to convince society that religion played an important role and gave an essential contribution of raising children.
"The destruction of the family brings also great problems to the State, even economic problems," he said.
Meanwhile, Ammar Hreba, head of the Islamic Centres and Propagation Bureau, said that even according to the Muslim tradition, marriages were based on the male and the female.
"If we let the family collapse, thanks to the negative directions of the media, this will lead to catastrophes and destruction. Same-sex marriages, for instance, destroy the entity of how family began with Adam and Eve."
He said negativity in the media leads to violence, but the Divine Call enables human beings to maintain the human race.
He called for the cooperation of the Church in Malta so that in a spirit of dialogue they could safeguard the family, by cooperating also with the government.
Maltese Muslim Mario Farrugia Borg warned against the erosion of values and the new challenges that did not exist 30 or 40 years ago, which he said were detrimental to the family.
He said it was a good sign that Christians and Muslims came together because they had "so much in common" in this regard.
The rest of the seminar, where four papers are to be discussed, was closed to the media. The discussions are also expected to touch upon issues of disagreement such as divorce and polygamy.
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Joe Xuereb
Jun 29th 2010, 21:46
Saliba, I had occasion to be in a hospital bed fairly recently and the RC chaplain whatever must have had wind that a patient was from Malta and must therefore be a catholic (who says bad news doesn't travel?). He came to my bed and I told him straightaway I was an unbeliever. He didn't flinch. And he kept visiting. Now THAT is bedside manner.
Saliba, I would no more be interested in you or any of your guises than I would be in the Whore of Babylon. You mustn't be so sensitive and take offence and betray Man's basic insecurity, hence a concocted belief-system that doesn't shore anything up. How can seemingly intelligent people base their lives on: 'jesus said....'? In fact I have a fairly good idea and I ain't curious anymore. I write to consolidate my fixations. I do not write for the likes of you. Would be nice if some up-and-coming young homosexual read my comments and felt encouraged, as in 'he's openly homosexual and his world hasn't come apart at the seams'. Thank you Saliba for giving me the platform to speak. What would I do without you. Thank you.
Why feel threatened Saliba?
Dr Francis Saliba
Jun 30th 2010, 14:37
"I write to consolidate my fixations".(Joe Xuereb)
You should try to correct your "fixations" - not to consolidate them. Any psychoanalyst could tell you that.
Dr Francis Saliba
Jun 29th 2010, 11:33
@JoeXuereb
I do not have any feeling of insecurity, thank you, and I do not care at all whether you are a beneficiary of Social Security or not. I do not deny the right of any atheist, whether local residents or persons displaced abroad, to self-express as long as they allow local Christians to practice their religion without any insulting disparaging mockery.
I have never had the misfortune of having you as a patient and therefore you are totally incompetent to express any opinion about my bedside manners. Since you seem to be suffering from some fixation about my medical profession, please allow me to express my genuine concern, as a doctor, about the drift of all your comments that I do not find amusing at all.
Dr Francis Saliba
Jun 28th 2010, 20:38
@Mary Smith & Mikiel Sciberras.
Don't take my word for it. Just do a Google search for Eric Jon Phelps - Exposed and discover for yourself the truth about your fraudster "hero", an American who does not have an American social security number, who does not pay any income tax in America, who is actually a diamond trading merchant running his business from Tel Aviv and who has earned an unenviable reputation for fabricating evidence against the Jesuits and against the Vatican. You will find more than 13000 entries!
Joe Xuereb
Jun 28th 2010, 14:59
@ Charles Caruana. Somewhere in this morass you simpered - as in utterly confused - that Dawkins etc. could, like religion, be about fairy-tales. Good start, comparing like with like. Let's say that Dawkins and the Pontiff came onto the balcony and said, sorry folks! it was all a hoax. Too late for me and my like, for atheism, having taken the risky leap, is now in my blood. With not a cannibalistic notion anywhere near this carcass, I take another sip of my kapuccin bil-panna . But the believer, what has s/he in their blood? How would they cope? This Muslim/Catholic alliance can be seen as testing the water of one's coping strategies. It's a good opportunity to self-assess one's resilience to living without an opium pipe.
Joe Xuereb
Jun 28th 2010, 04:20
@ Saliba, you addressed me and drew attention to a list of heinous characters, including Maltese who live abroad, atheists living for Malta's downfall. I have no hat for that. In spite of my atheism, I find this Muslim and Catholic nonsense distressing. We haven't heard anything`- your standard defensive/attacking comments are forever tactically oblique, never saying anything much - about what you think of this unholy alliance. Of course, you, a medical doctor (with abysmal bedside manner no doubt) would never admit to feeling paranoid about a situation where being paranoid is legitimate. Instead you project any such feelinsecurities onto others, in this instance, Trevor L. Mizzi whose erudition is beyond even me from the little I could understand of his comment. I don't understand money, I've never been a beneficiary of Social Security. I am an honourable man. A homosexual/atheist/all-embracing international man based in London, breathing its rarified air (don't take that literally and burden me with 'straw-clutching' comment). You cannot bear atheist Maltese residing abroad. You'd deny them their right to self express. You want to keep Malta pure. You see the widening cracks but keep mum, hoping the cracks will re-self-seal. They won't. So get crackin`.
Dr Francis Saliba
Jun 28th 2010, 10:56
@JoeXuereb - not worthy of any reply.
Trevor Lorenzo Mizzi
Jun 27th 2010, 16:35
There is solid reason to why is sur Phelps does not pay income tax in the 14th amendment United States and to why he does not have a popish social security number. Once again I dare you to challenge Eric Jon Phelps to a lecture debate on his writings and radio broadcasts.
Dr Francis Saliba
Jun 27th 2010, 17:42
What on earth do you mean by a "popish" security number when that is what USA citizens should have?
Please read my previous comment to understand the reason why I consider this correspondence about Phelps as closed and why I do not admit him for company.
Trevor Lorenzo Mizzi
Jun 27th 2010, 19:07
"What on earth do you mean by a "popish" security number when that is what USA citizens should have?"
Social Security Numbers are issued by the UN through the IMF. The Application for a Social Security Number is the SS5 form. The Department of the Treasury (IMF) issues the SS5 not the Social Security Administration.The IMF is an Agency of the UN. (Blacks Law Dictionary 6th Ed. Pg. 816.) The U.S. Treasury is now the IMF. (Presidential Documents Volume 29-No.4 pg.113, 22 U.S.C. 285-288. In 1934 the Social Security Act was passed. The beginning of the numbering of the American population began. Each would be assigned a Social Security Number (SSN) with an accompanying bond number to be seen on the reverse of the Social Security Card. All American, laboring, “human resources” would be bonded for the national debt, enslaved to interest payments, which could never be repaid. Like the corporations, all American citizens were now commercial “resources” whose “incomes” were to be taxed and they were to be managed by their 14th Amendment creators in Washington via acts of Congress controlled by Rome through the Archbishop of New York City’s Council on Foreign Relations. Read and learn Saliba.
Dr Francis Saliba
Jun 27th 2010, 19:59
You seem to be suggesting that the UN, the IMF and the USA Congress are all controlled by the Archbishop of New York o.b.o. the Pope! That is a "lesson" from you that makes me laugh because it is so preposterous and it makes me cry because it is highly suggestive of a paranoid state of mind.
Trevor Lorenzo Mizzi
Jun 27th 2010, 21:00
There is nothing paranoid about true facts Saliba.
Do the research without your popish blinders on.
The roman church has been complicit in terrible acts throughout history and still is, the rampant paedophilia scandal is just the tip of the iceberg.
Their open complicity in the death camps of the Croatian Ustashi during WW2 is not open to debate it is a proven fact.
Dr Francis Saliba
Jun 27th 2010, 22:04
It is people that are paranoid, not facts! And one of the most alarming of paranoid and other psychoses is that the victim is not aware of the condition. Bye.
Trevor Lorenzo Mizzi
Jun 27th 2010, 22:15
Calling people you don't know paranoid is the mark of a real loser.
Mary Smith
Jun 28th 2010, 13:59
@Dr. Francis Saliba What TLM has said about the involvement of the RCC with the Croatian Ustaci and other Fascist dictators from Franco, Salizar and even Mussolini and Hitler is a matter of proven History and not paranoia! Do you know that the Nazi death camps where millions of people were exterminated had statues of Christ and the Virgin Mary (there is photos of this), before they were removed by orders of the Allied command) at their gates? There are also photos in existence showing these as well as bishops in full regalia blessing the Ustaci before the execute Orthodox Serbians as well as bishops and other showing bishops giving the Nazi salute. You have to admit that you do NOT know all the facts.
Mikiel Sciberras
Jun 28th 2010, 14:04
So according to you, anyone who operates a business tax free (e.g. as Churches, Charity Organizations, Offshore companies etc) is ipso facto a liar? Then how about reading "The Vicars of Christ" by Peter de Rosa, a Jesuit Scholar who had access to the secret Vatican archives for over ten years, and confirms all that Mr Phelps is saying and more. Those agents of the RC Church, the Jesuits were kicked out of most countries, including Malta for their nefarious plots against the State and yet you seek to deny this and to denigrate those like Phelps who speak the truth. Even the SS of Himmler's Nazi Germany were modelled after this Order (they really must have impressed Himmler). Another note. You said that Mr. Phelps has a business out of Israel (Zionist - meaning he is in favour of a homeland for the Jews, you know, those people that gave us Jesus, Mary and Joseph) shows your anti-Semitic bias. How Catholic can you get. When Hitler was questioned by a German Archbishop as to why he was persecuting the Jews, Hitler replied "I am doing the work that you have taught me".
Dr Francis Saliba
Jun 27th 2010, 10:22
@JoeXuereb
Do not let your imagination carry you away. When I want to refer to you I say so. When I refer to a class of people e.g. atheists, lapsed disgruntled Catholics. abortionists, divorcees (actual or potential), piratical "environmentalists", purveyors of pornography etc feel free to put on that hat if it fits you. If you are in doubt ask me but, please, identifying the comment.
Joe Xuereb
Jun 27th 2010, 01:46
Saliba (18hours 16minutes) , do you often attack one individual to get at a third? Nothing pure in those manners. Unless of course, you are doing a lady ga-ga, mixing me up with someone else. Having said that, am I surprised?
Mark Galea
Jun 27th 2010, 00:01
WE LIVE IN A DEMOCRATIC COUNTRY, where there is freedom of worship and freedom of expression. The Catholic Church (and Muslims) are free to express themselves against gay marriage and others are free to criticise them for doing so. What they are NOT free to do is expect to silence the Catholic Church's (or Muslims) arguments.
It is not the Catholic Church (or Muslims) who prevent the introduction of gay marriages. It is the people who have a vote and both the government and the opposition know it (and have to respect it)
We are not in the middle ages, where religious authorites (or governments) could burn you ... nobody is being burnt for stating that s/he does not believe in God, or the Catholic church, or Islam, etc. That is freedom of worship.
Micheal Attard
Jun 28th 2010, 02:07
If it is true that we live in a democratic society, why haven't the government and the catholic chruch have the courage and the decency to leave the decision of same sex marriage in the hands of the people by means of a referendum, rather than just saying that the people have decided with the usual bla bla of "we are a catholic country". Or are they so afraid that people might choose otherwise?
Dr Francis Saliba
Jun 26th 2010, 23:39
@TrevorLorenzoMizzi
Eric Jon Phelps an eminent scholar? My foot! He is a Zionist diamond peddler who is well known as a fake anti-Jesuit expert, a “merchant of tripe”, notorious for making scapegoats of the Vatican, Jesuits and all Catholics and an author of unsubstantiated fabrications!
Are you so gullible as to believe the alleged confidence of a renowned ecumenist like Cardinal Bea to a renegade Jesuit priest? I am not!
I had suspected that your version of history was fabricated from some pseudo-historical novel – the truth as given by you is even worse!
Trevor Lorenzo Mizzi
Jun 27th 2010, 13:35
I have met Mr. Phelps and he is a true Christian, his knowledge on the evil of the roman church surpasses that of many great scholars. I dare you to challenge him in a lecture debate Saliba.
You will go cowering with your tail between your legs into the sunset I can assure you.
Dr Francis Saliba
Jun 27th 2010, 15:57
I have no time to waste on any fraudster who pretends to be an American but who has never paid any income tax in that country, who does not have social security number and who turrns out to be operating jewels selling business from Israel.
I am choosy about the company I keep and whom to accept as an eminent "scholar". What bedazzles you does not necessarily earn my respect and certainly does not impress me!
Joe Xuereb
Jun 26th 2010, 21:57
2) You're still in denial C.
C., the church and its bishops are supposed to uphold their church, themselves, the people and the country. Instead they are playing with fire. Instead you insinuate that me and my like have no space in Malta. And sarcastic with it. Manners please. What YOU could write about, C., is that the way things are going, more and more space is going to be allocated to an alien religion. You're still not worried about Maltese brand Catholicism, C.? You should be you know. The Imam will never relinquish divorce to appease Cremona. It's not within his power anyway. There isn't an Islam Brand Malta. Not yet. And yet, you're still in denial C.
Joe E Galea
Jun 26th 2010, 21:07
What is it wrong with these Zammits? It's not enough having Joe Zammit now another one cropped up...C Zammit. Please give the human race a break from your disgusting comments.
C.Zammit
Jun 26th 2010, 21:43
@ Joe E Galea - Why should I not comment because I am not one who goes with the flow and have a different opinion. ?? That's why? So today if you are ant-immigration anti-Gay Anti devorce & abortion and so on.... You have to shut up. No way will not tolerate this kind of arrogance.For your info only I am 29yrs old. The only hope that Malta has is that there will be a very good righ-wing party in power like lega nord. http://www.leganord.org/
At the moment we do not have such a party.
Joe Fenech
Jun 26th 2010, 20:11
Muslim and Catholic religions, well done for you same-sex marriage! Don't worry - you won't have to divorce: you go very well together!
Dr Francis Saliba
Jun 27th 2010, 10:31
@JoeFenech
If you had the slightest acquaintance with recent recurrent events in Moslem Northern Niger you would never write such nonsense as Christians and Muslims "go very well together"!
nicole grima
Jun 26th 2010, 17:59
Muslims and Catholics united against Gay Rights... u le.... talk about trying to send Malta back into the Dark Ages.
charles caruana
Jun 26th 2010, 17:33
@joseph Carmel Chetcuti
Please correct and excuse me if I am mistaken. Aren’t you the same person who from the lofty perch of his vast experience in the gay lifestyle publicly boasted that you could identify a homosexual from the voice? If you are, would you please utilize your expertise to illuminate us on the sexual orientation of our Bishops, if you’re so keen for us to know. It takes someone who has pathetically reduced himself and his identity to his bare sexual orientation to keep sniffing, or should I say listening, to the sexual orientation of others.
‘United in hate!..Taliban Catholics…’ Very rich, coming from someone whose comments fairly ooze pure undiluted hate for anything religious, particularly Catholic.
You dared mention the crucified Christ. To you and the other hate mongers and anti-religious bigots on this thread, I would only say this. Remember the odious scoffers and arrogant jeerers on Golgotha, baiting, insulting and challenging a dying Christ to show his divinity by saving himself? Where are they now? Who knows them now? Their names have not even been consigned to the dustbins of history. Yet Christ is alive!
C.Zammit
Jun 26th 2010, 17:06
Even if christ is not visible anymore on this planet he is still here.
Michael Bartolo: Who said that if your catholic you can't enjoy your life? Says who? You? Some Atheist? Says who? Mela you have to loose your values to enjoy your life? Yes the media is a big trash can. Wow what idols our kids have Lady Ga ga! Riahanna! Robbie Williams!WOOOWWW what people of good example these are! @TO OUR DEAR WISE MALTESE/AUSTRALIANS AND ALSO MALTESE LIVING IN THE UK especially as they are the worst kind you can find stop coming here trying to educate us. Enjoy living in your countries. Here at least you enjoy seeing families having a good time,. MALTA IS A COUNTRY FOR FAMILIES. TO ALL PEOPLE PRO DEVORCE FOR GET IT!!!!!!!!!!!!! IN YOUR DREAMS!!!
John Azzopardi
Jun 26th 2010, 18:11
Mr. C. Zammit, you are showing ignorance. So what if there is no divorce. 1/3 of all maltese children are today born to single mothers. Is this what Malta is going to be known for. No divorce. Produce babies in a single parent home. What a sham. Don't get too carried away about divorce. I have a large number of family relatives who are separated or pogguti. This is not a way to live. Every individual has a freedom to chose and that is what democracies are for. I am sure divorce will be with us in the next 5-10 years. The time is now ripe to address this issue seriously.. I know many catholics who are divorced or separated and they still go to church. Now, you tell me, if these people are wrong or not. PLease don't be the judge. ONly God can be the judge of all this. for your infomation, families break down because either one of the spouses cheat or there are other reasons. People should not stay in an unhealthy marraige. The same way other people have rights to choose, married couples should also have that option if the marraige fails.
J.Xuereb
Jun 27th 2010, 01:08
How could you generalize? How can you determine what makes a gay person!! Who do you think you are to say such things?? I am gay but surely NOT a mummies boy I left my parents' house 15 years ago to share my life with my partner. I respect my parents but I cannot blame them for my sexual orientation. I think that it is better for you to see those gay closet priests who are INCAPABLE and TERRORIZED of facing their true identity as being gay, remove there mask and tell us of their homosexuality!!
I trust an open gay person but I do not trust a closed gay priest who pretends and acts as a saint in front of society and in front of his family!! this is what you have to look at, hidden priests who are frustrated just to keep their religious families happy!!! Go and open your mind and free yourself from your self-inflicted slavery!!!
C.Zammit
Jun 26th 2010, 16:41
Here we go again. Joe Xuereb in defence of Homosexuals.! Welcome back:) Mr.Educator I was thinking to find you here. Why can't you exept that Malta is a catholic country and has no space for homosexual marriage. It's not normal and that's it. God created man and a women and only they can get married. If you are on a mission to ruin Malta , there is no space for you. You Athiests think that your bright and only you can educate the world. Christs laws count up to today and tomorrow's world like it or not even if he existed over 2,000yrs ago. There is nothing you can change.
louis zammit
Jun 26th 2010, 17:10
then why did god make us...or why did he allow it ..i thought our GOD does not make mistakes....and he does not ...god created us so we are good tooo... and just because i was born in a catholic malta???? lol.... then i should not have any rights like u.... i choose MY RELIGION but MY country i do NOT choose just as MUCH AS I DID NOT CHOOSE TO BE GAY..... so MALTA should give us all the rights to live like u... and the CATHOLIC church keeps her rights.....
C.Zammit
Jun 26th 2010, 17:27
@ Louis Zammit- It would have been nice if Joe Xuereb replied before you did as I usually like his empty lectures.If your GAY it's up to you. You have the right to live , Drink , Eat , Go out rent an appartement with your partner yes you can. To pretend marriage , adopt kids and also have the same right as other married couples forget it. Also couples who are normal man and woman and just living together forget it. Lets face it God did create you yes up to their you are right! You did not choose to be Gay? If you notice around you Most Gay Men are mummies boys. Some times its the mothers fault as they are too protective over their boys. This is all happening because of today's modern scociety up bringning, God did not make mistakes but humans did many many mistakes. Today the world normal is a taboo. Every one says the same stupid thing. What is normal?? You have the answer from god a man is in a relationship with a woman and have kids.
Joe Xuereb
Jun 26th 2010, 21:32
1) @ C.Zammit. I am homosexual so I defend my rights. And I left an oppressive country. If you were homosexual, you would too. Having said that, you sound the kind of man who would just bend double under your catholic guilt. Many before you joined the priesthood to alleviate what they see as an insurmountable problem. Of course the problem doesn't go away. It is merely hidden under a dress ready to pounce the the going gets tough. It happens as you know.
Now C., is that educational enough? Either way I don't charge so you've nothing to lose. May I add - there are Catholic countries where homosexuals do get married. May I point out too that you don't know whether I'm in favour or against homosexual marriage. You don't know. Your prejudice blinds you to what you read.
Atheists don't need congregations, they march alone. I uphold homosexuals' rights (and yours too if they are abused). Beyond that, I really don't care what the belief system in Malta continues to be. It's a free world. For familial reasons, I prefer it to remain Catholic. So I wouldn't meddle with Islam.
cont.
louis zammit
Jun 26th 2010, 16:40
He said it was a good sign that Christians and Muslims came together because they had "so much in common" in this regard........since when they have so much in common.....arent we gays the sons of god tooo........ is it our parents FAULT that we where born gay...or our parents that made us gay........i always thought this was a religion of love and faith or is it just a religion of FESTA U MURTALI..........no wonder the youth is just turning their back on the church.....time to think twice of what one says..............
C.Busuttil
Jun 26th 2010, 17:05
Off course gays are children of God, but you can't love God and the devil at the same time. They have to make a choice. God requests that gays do not to have sexual relationships, its hard but they have to carry this burden, a burden similar to the cross he carried for us. If Jesus was able to sustain such ordeal, so can gays. A christian, gay or not, has to carry his own personal cross, as Christ did. It's very simple..... The Christian faith is not just love but also sacrifice. Besides, God was crystal clear about marriage, its between a man and a woman.
PS- feasts and petards are external Maltese traditions which the church does not organize except the procession, don't mix up things.
J.Xuereb
Jun 27th 2010, 01:15
@ C Busuttil. You are just brainwashed and weak to believe in a bible written by human-beings!!! So, according to what you have just said, God is unjust to leave Gays carry their cross and you as free as a bird. You homophobic people are nothing else better than egoists, wanting to accommodate themselves in a society which accepts only you!!! you are living a lie and you are living against the teaching of Christ!!!
Guze Xerri
Jun 26th 2010, 15:10
Gee Whiz, what will these two brothers in arms join forces on next??
They can always bash the Jews...
Oh wait .. they already done that and still are doing that.
charles caruana
Jun 26th 2010, 17:16
@joseph Carmel Chetcuti
Please correct and excuse me if I am mistaken. Aren’t you the same person who from the lofty perch of his vast experience in the gay lifestyle publicly boasted that you could identify a homosexual from the voice? If you are, would you please utilize your expertise to illuminate us on the sexual orientation of our Bishops, if you’re so keen for us to know. It takes someone who has pathetically reduced himself and his identity to his bare sexual orientation to keep sniffing, or should I say listening, to the sexual orientation of others.
‘United in hate!..Taliban Catholics…’ Very rich, coming from someone whose comments fairly ooze pure undiluted hate for anything religious, particularly Catholic.
You dared mention the crucified Christ. To you and the other hate mongers and anti-religious bigots on this thread, I would only say this. Remember the odious scoffers and arrogant jeerers on Golgotha, baiting, insulting and challenging a dying Christ to show his divinity by saving himself? Where are they now? Who knows them now? Their names have not even been consigned to the dustbins of history. Yet Christ is alive!
Guze Xerri
Jun 26th 2010, 17:36
You are barking up the wrong tree Mr. Caruana, I am not Mr. Chetcuti.
Go reply in Mr Chetcuti's blog and not on mine.
michael bartolo
Jun 26th 2010, 14:54
Kemm hu sewwa li madnix nati kasom.Nithassar lil anzjani li kienu jikundizjonawlom hajjitom
Alexander Muscat
Jun 26th 2010, 15:35
vera msiken naqbel mijak !!
Alexander Muscat
Jun 26th 2010, 13:19
umbad il knisja trid tigbed iz zaghzagh lejjha ma nafx jien!!!
C.Busuttil
Jun 26th 2010, 17:21
Mhux hekk!!!! bil-mentalita taghna l-maltin jekk il-knisja tkun mimlija gays ha tara z-zghazagh jigru lejn il-Knisja. Mentri l-maltin il-gays ma tantx jinzlu tajjeb maghhom tista tahseb l-aktar meta joffenduk b'dik il-kelma li tibda bil-P
U halluna l-anqas tafu x'intom tghidu. Iz-zghazagh ma jmorrux knisja ghax jdejqu mhux ghax ma jemmnux U bejn temmen u tiddejjaq hemm differenza kbira. Mela l-poplu amerikan bhal isqfijiet taghna ntolleranti, ghax f'kull stat fejn sar referendum kontra z-zwieg bejn il-gays intrebbah anke fl-aktar stati liberali!!!!!!!!
John Azzopardi
Jun 26th 2010, 12:05
The damage that was done by this supposed unity is not even funny. I for one will not attend church this sunday to show my opposition for the lack of tolerance that the catholic church is showing to our fellow maltese and gozitan brothers and sisters who happen to be gay.
Stephen Spiteri
Jun 26th 2010, 11:32
I have noticed that when one has a different opinion from our ‘beacons of light’, these just reinforce their self-assured believes and imagine themselves as if they are under some siege.
Perhaps that is why they felt the need to unite in front of a common enemy.
But I say, the enemy of mankind has always been man himself, and deathliest weapon of all has always been religion.
R.Caruana
Jun 26th 2010, 10:47
...u n-nies tkompli titbieghed mill-knisja kattolika.
Chris Reiff
Jun 26th 2010, 10:42
The Church, failing to emanate its power as much as they want to, seek help from the only institution that is even better at brainwashing and exercising its power; the Muslims. I can already see the Church going back to spreading fear and death to convert people. Then again, teaching children that they will go to Hell if they don't obey isn't really spreading peace.
Joe Fenech
Jun 26th 2010, 09:59
Muslims and Catholics = two of the same medieval kind!!!
C.Busuttil
Jun 26th 2010, 17:29
SO according to your infinite wisdom the americans are still in the middle ages since the people who live in the most liberal states of the USA have rejected gay marriages in specific referendums. Gay marriages are impositions by greedy politicians who seek their vote, while when the people are given the right to determine this issue, they reject it wether they are catholic, christians, muslims, jews or atheists
Imma Joe Fenech minn Malta c-centru ta' l-gherf jaf aktar minn kulhadd.
Hu parir u inqas ma tiftah halqek aktar ahjar.
Joe Fenech
Jun 26th 2010, 20:21
C.Busuttil:
WHEN / WHERE have I mentioned that I am for same-sex marriage! To be honest, for me that's irrelevant. What I'm definitely against is gays adopting children.
For me, USA standards are not benchmark! And YES, the state - who hasn't even separated from the church (In God We Trust!) - is still medieval!
Don't be patronising and don't label me: YOU KNOW NOTHING ABOUT ME! I've probably lived in more foreign countries than you!
J.Xuereb
Jun 26th 2010, 09:57
This is really a suicide for the Archbishop!!! This is pure Hypocrisy. It is unbelievable for me to read such nonsense when we are trying to remove injustice and instill tolerance towards diversity in 2010. How can I believe in the church when i am seeing this surprisingly horrendous act!! It is pure hypocrisy to see Muslims and Catholics side by side after all the hatred they instill towards each other's religions!!! This clearly shows that this is being done solely to accommodate themselves in our Society!!! Weak Maltese!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Klaus Pedersen
Jun 26th 2010, 08:55
Of course it is tempting to remark hwo the orthodox on both sides seem to have more in commong with eachother than with the liberals in their own camp, but I think the cynics should lay off this one and appreciate the significance of the Archbishop and Mr Hreba sharing a podium in these times of confrontation - never mind the issue then, the important thing is that they are showing that religions can, and must, coexist peacefully.
Dr Francis Saliba
Jun 26th 2010, 07:15
@JoeXuereb
No Maltese, Catholic or otherwise, would ever succeed to "keep Malta 'pure' ". The sporadic self-imposed exile of atheists from our shore to distant lands is a step in the right direction. Unfortunately for their own credibility, their self-imposed exile does not stop them from making fools of themselves by trying to impose from abroad their own peculiar standard of "purity" on the tenacious Catholics who remain behind to safeguard our Constitution.
Neil Camilleri
Jun 26th 2010, 11:47
If this constitution were worth safeguarding the self-imposed exile would be from those distant countries to this one, not the other way around.
Dr Francis Saliba
Jun 26th 2010, 13:18
@NeilCamilleri
No "if" about our Constitution being worth safe-guarding. We, the resident voters who matter, have been successfully safeguarding the religion clauses ever since the promulgation of the Constitutiional Law fortysix years ago. The noisy anti-Christian rump resident abroad do not count at all notwithstanding their (im)pious hopes and false prophecies.
joseph Carmel Chetcuti
Jun 26th 2010, 02:03
United in hate! Malta's Taliban Catholics are at it again. Why don't Malta's bishops tell what their sexual orientation is. Whether they ever had sex with a woman or for that matter a man. They may well consider doing this by way of swearing on the crucified Christ. Let's have all the cards on the table!
Dr Francis Saliba
Jun 26th 2010, 10:13
"Why don't Malta's bishops tell what their sexual orientation is. Whether they ever had sex with a woman or for that matter a man. "(Joseph Carmel Chetcuti)
The obvious answer: Because it none of your business or anybody else's business.
Neil Camilleri
Jun 26th 2010, 01:17
The only thing being destroyed here is religion and it's useless rituals. People, even in this country where there are more churches than there are square km of land (and a tyrannical shortage of properly organized libraries), are slowly beginning to realize that thinking critically and independently serves our society better, that what's bad for the church is not necessarily bad for society and what's good for the church is not necessarily good for society.
Ultimately marriage is a promise between two people , whether they believe in god or not, it is up to them to see it through, to nurture it and care for it. They are solely responsible for it and it's final outcome so don't give credit where it's not due, marriage is a human institution, it was long before religion and will be long after.
Andrew Farrugia
Jun 25th 2010, 23:31
I can understand anger and consternation of many people about this event, which i consider to be a mistake on the part of the Church authorities; I can understand criticism of the Bishop regarding the way people of different orientation feel about this situation. Of course, even Bishops may be criticised about the decisions they take. I have said so already in this thread. What i cannot understand is the HDURA which is levelled constantly against God and the Church. Some people seem to want to silence the Church utterly and to relegate God to oblivion. Well, it might be the Cross we have to bear today; after all the Church has survived for two thousand years and when one remembers what the Borgias did to it, one remains hopeful that these villainous efforts today will prove just as puny and when we are long gone will be mere blimps forgotten in the mists of time.
Joe Xuereb
Jun 25th 2010, 22:51
I've often said it and I'll repeat it - writ large. And in the language of my country. L-OPPRESSJPONI U L-MOHQRIJA TA` L-OMOSESSWALI IGGIB UKOLL OPPRESSJONI TAL-POPLU SHIH. Gay oppression is class oppression. I saw this graffiti on a school wall on Holland Walk, Kensington decades ago. It was a cruising area, popular with the guys after the discos closed. At least one got some fresh air. And the graffito stuck in my mind. The seed was well and truly sown even then. Viva Londra u l-helsien tal-mohh (freedom of thought).
You think only homosexuals are being targeted? Think again! But Malta is in the EU. At the moment the EU doesn't know whether to weep with us or laugh at us. But either way that has to change because nothing is static. Often unpredictable. I think this has more than a whiff of that very British dictum - if you can't beat them, join them. Malta, quo vadis?
George Poitier
Jun 25th 2010, 22:34
Before they clean up their act, they remain as guilty as the next person. No one will believe them or have any faith in what they say. Go and clean your house before you condemn anyone.
Joe Fenech
Jun 25th 2010, 19:47
Both religions are stuck in the middle ages, so that's a very natural thing to do!
Joe Xuereb
Jun 25th 2010, 15:17
I've often said on these pages that in denigrating homosexuality, the church foments hatred among homo-haters. 'See, even the church condemns them' the homophobe says, even though he hasn't received communion for decades. The sinful homophobe, but still a believer somehow, is in a bit of a quandary now. Everybody hates homosexuality now but who does he turn to? Not the church for that is now siding with his pet-hate, Muslims. Oh dear! the webs of deceit that we weave.
A while back the Imam said free movement of people is legitimate and even jesus did it. The Maltese liked that. See, Islam accepts and endorses jesus! So, welcome any number of religious aliens. Fr. Joe Borg agreed. See > http://www.timesofmalta.com/blogs/view/20090509/fr-joe-borg/should-there-be-more-mosques-in-malta
and so did many of his followers and sundry apologists. Judging by this Seminar, Cremona too seems converted. He's pensive, and concentrated (but not enough). While two Islamists talk behind his back. And THAT before the Seminar was closed to the media. The mind boggles. I want to know what happened next Colombo! (Peter Falk). In 'The men in dresses in the inner sanctum'..
Joe Xuereb
Jun 25th 2010, 14:07
The Catholic wants to keep Malta 'pure' (fat chance). The Muslim, well, the Muslim wants to take over. Speaking generally of course, but food for thought never harmed anyone.
There's been a precursor to all this. Read this blog. http://www.timesofmalta.com/blogs/view/20090509/fr-joe-borg/should-there-be-more-mosques-in-malta
No love lost betwwen Catholic and Muslim, that much is obvious. But they share a commond hate figure. So they work together. For a while anyway.
The Maltese Church wants marriage along the Muslim model. Church getting a bit desperate here.
The session closed to the media was, in all probability, the discussion: 'how will Malta deal with polygamy, divorce?' That's quite a hurdle Cremona. The Rabbi may have been invited but wisely, he declined.
Moral (but factual). A couple hate each other and their parenting skills are under scrutiny. Until the case - their child is on At-Risk Register', they are against authority figures, social workers, Court. They present a united-front, their relationhsip seemingly solid. Child-issue solved, the couple go their separate ways. The parallel between the two faiths and the scapegoat is obvious. To me at any rate.
Was the caption in Maltese written in invisible-ink? Invisible being the operative word.
William P Flynn
Jun 25th 2010, 09:57
The chief Rabbi is conspicuous by his absence.
William P Flynn
Jun 25th 2010, 09:21
Is it my imagination or do these media shows by the bishops etc happen whenever a nasty bit of news breaks? Like the one in Belgium where police are tapping walls at the Cathedral looking for hidden files on paedophile priests.
They figure what can we do to divert attention from this? Well there's always the gays....quick, ring the Moslems, they hate gays too.
When is our own Attorney General going to set up an official enquiry into paedophile priests in Malta and do a bit of tapping here and there for some files?
And these “authorities” want to tell us what's right and what's wrong?!
Off with Article 2 from our Constitution.
Kenneth Zammit Tabona
Jun 25th 2010, 08:53
That I am shocked is an understatement! Why not add the crescent to the crosses on our churches? I really do not know what to say anymore! Will the government now change Article 2 of the constitution to include Islam along with the the Roman Catholic Religion?
Yes there HAS been a divorce; a huge one. Christianity in its true essence has long been divorced from Catholicsism, which is crumbling under the weight of its own corruption and ineptitude.
Trevor Lorenzo Mizzi
Jun 25th 2010, 04:43
This is just more proof that islam is a creation of the roman church.
The two systems seem to be diametrically opposite, but under the
surface they are tied together by their tails.
To the unwary, roman catholicism and islam seem to be
diametrically opposite religious systems. On closer examination
however, we will see that Islam is a creation of the Vatican and it is
the BEST ENEMY MONEY CAN BUY!!
And if his different systems seem to be antagonists, it is only as
a smokescreen to blind the unwary.
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=8031281677447424159#
Dr Francis Saliba
Jun 26th 2010, 07:01
@Trevor Lorenzo Mizzi
The most important link between Christianity and Islam in the poisoned and poisoning minds of atheists and secularists is that both are religions. That renders both of them fair game for venomous vilification, sometimes in combination and sometimes separately as the occasion demands.
The ploy is obvious to anyone with a shred of grey matter.
Trevor Lorenzo Mizzi
Jun 26th 2010, 13:43
No Saliba, anyone with any grey matter in their cranium can see what these so called two religions truly are, "controlling and evil and as phony as a three dollar bill. Stop being an apologist for romanism and arab romanism, they all spring from the same stinking well.
Dr Francis Saliba
Jun 26th 2010, 14:44
@TrevorLorenzoMizzi
Just because you say so it is not necessarily so. It is pointless to argue with an antireligionist who is so blinkered that he can keep a straight face, whilst outrageously pretending that the crusades and the Spanish reconquistadores actually "created" and allied themselves with the Moslem hordes that conquered Spain, North Africa and Palestine.
islam is a creation of the roman church.
Trevor Lorenzo Mizzi
Jun 26th 2010, 15:38
Francis Saliba, It is useless to argue with you but I will try:
Even brothers have their falling out with each other. Originally the Vatican helped to finance the building of massive Islamic armies in exchange for three favors:
Eliminate the Jews and Christians (true believers, which they called infidels). Protect the Augustinian Monks and Roman Catholics.
Conquer Jerusalem for "His Holiness" in the Vatican.
As time went by,the power of Islam became tremendous,Jews and true Christians were slaughtered, and Jerusalem fell into their hands. But when the pope asked for Jerusalem, he was surprised at their denial! The Arab generals had such success that they could not be intimidated by the pope nothing could stand in the way of their own plan
The pope realized what they had created was out of control when he heard they were calling "His Holiness" an infidel.The Muslim generals were determined to conquer the world for Allah and now they turned toward Europe.
The Vatican was outraged; war was inevitable.Temporal power and control of the world is considered the basic right of the pope.He wouldn’t think of sharing it with those whom he considered heathens.
Dr Francis Saliba
Jun 26th 2010, 18:51
@TrevorLorenzoMizzi
Your version of history is unadulterated phantastical fable. Did you get it from some pseudo-historical novel?
Trevor Lorenzo Mizzi
Jun 26th 2010, 21:06
Saliba,
Read what eminent scholars like Eric Jon Phelps wrote concerning islam being a creation of the roman church or what info ex jesuit priest Alberto Riviera got from Cardinal Bea concerning this fact.
You are a mouthpiece for the Curia in Malta Saliba, and a poor one at that.
Charles Grixti
Jun 27th 2010, 19:20
@Dr. Francis Saliba
Recently, a researcher and professor of an eminent UK University came out with a study of Islam and he concluded that this religion and its holy book the "Koran" could not have been written by illeterate Bedouin Arabs and has proof that in fact it was Catholic monks who put this new creed to paper decades after the death of Mohammed.
You seem to be against all form of free thought and are hostile to Secularism and Atheism, something that distinguished most great men and wome of all time. Any sort of progress and enlightment came from these sources and none other. Religions would still have us kowtowing to fairytales and living in the Dark Ages.
Hope you are just a doctor of Theology and not of any other science. I find it hard to reconcile a true Scientist who bases his opinons on fact and imperically reasoning, with one that believes in blind fatih without proof.
John Azzopardi
Jun 25th 2010, 00:33
How come no one commented on the banners behind our archbishop and the Iman. The arabic language on top, and english at the bottom. Where is the Maltese. have we already catipulated. The catholic church today is inclusive and our bishops better wake up before it's too late.
Mike F Abbot
Jun 24th 2010, 22:10
The story is in the comments in this thread.
Intolerance, mistrust, fear of the 'other' side. Religion has been responsible for hate, war, division & misery in the past and it seems it's capable of doing exactly the same to this day.
Say what you want. It's on the decline along with cultural and social ignorance. good riddance. People are learning not to judge along partisan lines but find common ground based simply on respect for each other as human beings. Remove the religious dogma that binds people to judging differences and we make it easier for people to instead celebrate those differences.
Or let's put it another way. if you believe something all knowing and greater than you, for instance, is instructing you to believe woman are inferior (if you think women should not be priests then you believe they are inferior.) then you'll never be able to think openly or critically, unless, of course, a priest tells you to think differently since they somehow have a special direct line to the all knowing. Convenient.
As long as we have religion we'll have powerful division.
S Zammit
Jun 24th 2010, 19:46
I don't understand what all this fuss is about. Did you expect the Archbishop or the imam to recommend same-sex marriages? Did you expect the Archbishop not to try to find common ground with his muslim counterpart?
Let the heads of the respective religious groups do their things in favor of peace and unity between religions and peoples. Isn't this what we all need.
... and don't we all know that adam and eve didn't exist... and that that is just a simple way to explain religious concepts... can you imagine them talking science?
Joe Zammit
Jun 24th 2010, 19:36
Par. 2400 of the Catechism of the Catholic Church runs: "Adultery, divorce, polygamy, and free union are grave offences against the dignity of marriage."
Franco Farrugia
Jun 24th 2010, 22:16
So what? Who wrote that book? The same people who are now .... just google at what's happening at the Belgian Roman Catholic Curia right now! You won't find that written in the book you love quoting!
S. Calleja
Jun 25th 2010, 07:33
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aY8_h_ubZLw
Mario Muscat
Jun 25th 2010, 13:12
Are you for really?? I almost choked to death laughing. You should get a towel and some sun block and head to the beach . Do not forget the wine .
Joe Zammit
Jun 24th 2010, 19:32
Par. 2400 of the Catechism of the Catholic Church runs:
"Adultery, divorce, polygamy, and free union are grave offences against the dignity of marriage."
Mario Muscat
Jun 25th 2010, 13:09
Lay off and get a life. You seem to be more holy than the Pope. People like you are pushing more people away from the church. Zero tolerance , if people like you have your way , we could have people being burnt alive in some square , just like the old days , BURN IN THE NAME OF CHRIST
Jeremy J Camilleri
Jun 24th 2010, 18:50
Why do Catholics accuse Muslims of viewing women as inferior? Don't Catholics do that as well?
Havn't met a female Priest as yet...Never read about a female apostle either....
As to the theme of this story? well...not much to say really...After slaughtering each other for centuries, I guess the new target is secularism...
Stephen Borg Cardona
Jun 24th 2010, 20:51
According to a recent Newsweek article there actually was a female apostle called Junia, for obvious reasons her existence has been kept quiet .
A.Gauci Cunningham
Jun 24th 2010, 18:43
Here we go again! Judging people not by their humility, sense of charity, love, respect and creativity but solely by who they sleep with, what sexual partner they prefer and their innate desire to belong to the rest of society and fulfill their dreams. Retorting back and trying to argue with fundamentalists (both withinin the Curia or outside) ,who cunningly cover their zeal behind a facade of smiles, photogenic poses and PR stunts, is becoming rather futile and a spectacular waste of time!!
Paul Smith
Jun 24th 2010, 18:40
C Gatt
the church is the government and the government is the church
here is some more joyful news about the church
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/10403961.stm
Belgian Catholic offices raided in sex abuse probe
wally vella-zarb
Jun 24th 2010, 18:09
J Farrugia, be careful what you wish for! In the unlikely event that someone takes your suggestion that "Fanatics should be locked up and not let to roam the world with their foolishness" seriously, I wouldn't be surprised to find that you would be among the first 'guests'.
Dr Ing. Patrick Attard
Jun 24th 2010, 17:51
The people are intelligent and informed. You can no longer blame the gays for all the ills of the world. Giving the right to a gay man to visit his sick-partner in hospital will not destroy the society.
Regarding the negaive media campaign, what do you expect when you uncover the largest ring of pedophelia in the whole world. The culprit is playing the victim.
M.Zammit
Jun 24th 2010, 17:20
Saving marriages my foot. Societies need saving from these control freaks psychological hold over the gullible. Secularization of these islands ASAP.
S. Calleja
Jun 24th 2010, 16:36
Quick reminder: http://www.timesofmalta.com/articles/view/20091119/local/chopping-off-hands-of-thieves-is-deserving-punishment-imam
Alexander Wright
Jun 24th 2010, 16:26
As a practicing Catholic I am surprised and taken aback by my Church, yet again!
Why does the Church keep harping on intolerance, homophoby and discrimination?
Is the Church so convinced it is losing ground that it has to seek alliances? Is it so much an industry that it is run like one? The Roman Catholic Faith is not some airline trying to secure a future.
Im sure Jesus Christ would run His Church like this. To be honest not even a decently-sane CEO would dream of taking these half-baked and badly designed decisions.
Love is the basis of all, not power. It is a Church of the people and for the people - and by people we mean all denominations, races and sexes. Christianity is a Faith of inclusion not of exclusion.
It does not take a PhD from Rome to realise this.
It just takes a good heart.
Patrik Larsson
Jun 24th 2010, 16:21
"...destroy the entity of how family began with Adam and Eve"
And we all know what a sound and moral family them and their offspring turned out to be.
Alfred Camilleri
Jun 24th 2010, 15:16
The Church apparently wants the catholic faithful of Malta to follow the example of Muslims where marriages are concerned. Does this mean that Maltese men can take up marriage with four women at the same time? M. Farrugia Borg, what are the values which you don't want to see eroded? Marriages of 1 man and 4 women? Male absolute rule, where the husband is the sole ruler of the household and the woman is just a non-entity? The stoning to death of erring daughters? Perhaps you may wish to include some other values yourself.
Dear Archbishop, is it the Maltese Church who is using muslims for its ends, or is it the other way round?
Edward Caruana Galizia
Jun 24th 2010, 15:00
I love how these discussions which involve the lives of a minority group, do not include members of that minority group at all! It s very easy for like minded people to agree, but that does not mean that they are right. Many poeple agree with wrong conclusions. Discussing something of such importance with people who agree with you is not a discussion, it is simply an ego boost in my opinion.
And what? Is this sudden union between faiths supposed to enfource the misconception of many in Malta- that Maltese don't want things like divorce or Gay Marriage? Well, these people are wrong. There are many people in Malta who see nothing wrong with either. The Church and Islamic leaders in Malta do not speak for the people. So why do they continue to live in a world of their own, where they do?
JOHN O SCERRI
Jun 24th 2010, 14:57
From the start. Both Religions believe in two different gods,
They have :
different creeds,
different traditions,
different commandments,
different views with regards to women,
different habits,
different marriage laws
How can one find any similarity may I ask?
albert muscat
Jun 24th 2010, 14:55
@ M. Tabone
(Islam practices that a woman is something dirty and has no place in heaven -_-) any text from the Quran to support your claim please?
Please let me check what the Bible says about women.
In the Bible I read: "The birth of a daughter is a loss" (Ecclesiasticus 22:3).
"A woman should learn in quietness and full submission. I don't permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man; she must be silent. For Adam was formed first, then Eve. And Adam was not the one deceived; it was the woman who was deceived and became a sinner" (I Timothy 2:11-14).
"A man who educates his son will be the envy of his enemy." (Ecclesiasticus 30:3)
St. Augustine wrote to a friend:‘......I fail to see what use woman can be to man if one excludes the function of bearing children."
My question-is God of the OD same God of NT?
Those who deny God and the existence of God and the creation of Adam and Eve? Where they came from? Who created them? Have they created themselves?
Christian Sciberras
Jun 24th 2010, 14:45
Didn't the Church side with others in the past to fight realistic reasoning (science)?
That said, I do agree with the mentioned values, but I feel that they should not be imposed by The State. Which is why I consider and expect the state to be secular.
The Chruch's teachings, which I consider true and which should be free to be preached, still shouldn't restrict one's freedom (or at least, what you seem to fantasize a freedom, since there's no such thing).
Jesmond Micallef
Jun 24th 2010, 14:25
I welcome this seminar here. It promotes solidarity on common shared principles between these two global beliefs which no "systematic" on this earth will ever put down. May it also serve to further enhance and consolidate understanding between the people of these two faiths in a time that actually demands this.
Hands off my children and my family dear state, even though I don't have one.
Joe Borg
Jun 24th 2010, 13:55
For a good understanding of what religions, being catholic, Muslim or other been responsible for i suggest you type George Carlin in you tube. Please view with an open mind.
d. borg
Jun 24th 2010, 13:55
How can we discuss marriage with Muslims when they look upon the woman as something inferior, someone to stay in the kitchen and bear children? And may we ask why the other four papers are being discussed without the media present? Something to hide?
C Gatt
Jun 24th 2010, 13:50
Did I read the first line of the report correctly: Is the church asking government to start spreading propaganda not just in favour of marriage but particularly in favour of faith marriages? On what grounds exactly? Is the church also proposing that the mass is celebrated by a civil servant? I am beginning to feel sorry for the church. It has lost so much confidence that it is asking government to save its flock. The sad thing is that government may think it has a duty to do so!!
Jason Borg
Jun 24th 2010, 15:00
I think you misunderstood completely. What the Archbishop proposed was for the state to provide some sort of preparation for marriage to those couples who opt for a civil marriage. The rest of your statements are a figment of your fertile imagination.
C Gatt
Jun 24th 2010, 19:20
@Mr Jason Borg, So its a ll a figment of my imagination. So explain this to me, and I quote: Archbishop Paul Cremona this morning called for the State to help couples prepare for marriage due to an increase in couples deciding AGAINST FAITH MARRIAGES. (my emphasis) Which to me means that couples are deciding FOR CIVIL MARRIAGES. Otherwise the archbishop would simply have said 'couples are deciding against marrying altogether'. So how is this a figment of my imagination. If the report is correct, and the archbishop understands nuances (and being a Dominican i have little doubt he does) then my interpretation is correct.
C. Farrugia
Jun 24th 2010, 13:49
**The rest of the seminar, where four papers are to be discussed, was closed to the media**
WHY??!!! Is not the media entitled to be present, taking into consideration the title of the article itself? And shouldn't the Muslim/Catholic public know what is being discussed *in their names*? It is their basic right you know!!! Indeed the title is mis-leading....it should read SOME Muslims and SOME Catholics unite...ect...ect...
Andrew Farrugia
Jun 24th 2010, 13:42
CONTD.
I also find it strange that if this was an inter-faith exercise, which i have already said i am sceptical about , that other religious denominations were not invited. I may disagree most vehemently with people who profess belief in other religions, or NO BELIEF whatsoever, but I will be the FIRST person to protect ANY human being of goodwill who is physically or psychologically harmed in any way (no hangings, beatings, beheadings, ostracisation or subordination - we are a democracy here) because of the way that person wants to live his/her life. And in doing so, i believe that i am being consistent with the tenets of my faith, so help me God.
Phil Penguin
Jun 24th 2010, 13:34
What is really strange about the Catholic Church in Malta is that it easily allies itself with Muslims but then it denigrates her own flock, namely the traditional Catholics. From the bits of news I gathered from an employee in the Maltese Curia, the local bishops are prohibiting Mass to be said in the so-called Extraordinary Form aka the Tridentine Mass or the Latin Mass. Why is this? Doesn't it go against what Pope Benedict XVI himself wants?
Andrew Farrugia
Jun 24th 2010, 13:31
Unfortunately, i anticipated the consternation and anger of the people who are rightly defending their dignity and their freedom in this thread. However, some gremlin thought otherwise and did not authorise my comment. Let me make my views clear from the outset: I am a catholic, proud of it and will forever strive to live my life according to the tenets of my faith. As such i am also aware of being a sinner in need of Grace and Salvation. I have the utmost respect of the dignity, humanity and sacredness of every human being of goodwill, IRRESPECTIVE OF COLOUR, CREED or ORIENTATION. The little i know of the Church's teachings are that actions and not individuals should be condemned. Even promiscuity among heterosexuals is condemnable. I may disagree with many of the commenters on this blog about the definition of the family and other issues BUT i will NEVER wish them any harm. They are perfectly entitled to their views. Unfortunately, the headline and reportage of this topic may be misleading. It could also be that in the interests of inter-faith dialogue ,which I am highly SCEPTICAL about for various reasons, the Bishop was invited to participate.
Franco Farrugia
Jun 24th 2010, 13:29
Even the picture produced by this newspaper, says it all! What a company! Again, Bishop: shame!
M. Tabone
Jun 24th 2010, 13:29
Is this for real? Christians and Islams??? Ok so Archbishop Paul Cremona, shall we introduce polygamy? Shall we remove crucifixes from public places? Shall we start wearing veils? Shall we women be treated like slaves from man as from now own? (Islam practices that a woman is something dirty and has no place in heaven -_-) This is non sens....teaming up with Muslims, do you know what you are doing??
T Cilia
Jun 24th 2010, 13:26
How are we going to protect the family by uniting with Muslims??? By reverting to the old ways that the man is the supreme being and has to be obeyed at all costs?? By giving the man the right to abuse his wife?? By taking away all rights from women?? By giving the right to men to take more than one wife and therefore live in a household of one master many "slaves" (the wives) and children from different mothers running around the same household?? By giving the man the right to divorce with no reason?? In my opinion saying this is ridiculous is putting it mildly!! Would it not be better for the church to be condemning the way Muslims treat their women and cry shame at the atrocities still going on against women in some Muslim countries!!!!!!!!!
Stephen Florian
Jun 24th 2010, 13:19
Fundamentalists united... Let the readers know that there is something called apostacy by means of which one can officially back out from a religious group or category, if that group which he belongs to no longer safeguards his or her beliefs. This sounds like the beginning of a very turbulent time. What will Pope Benedict XVI say when he sees this ecumenical alliance...? Stop confusing humanity, BOTH OF YOU !
Stephen Koludrovic
Jun 24th 2010, 13:19
Why wasn,t a rabbi also invited to this seminar.
Edward Caruana Galizia
Jun 24th 2010, 14:56
Good point!
victor rodenas
Jun 24th 2010, 13:17
Muslims and Catholics have never been united.......they can live happily together ,but they never will unite.........they can use each other for their own scope,but only that.........what will archbishop Cremona say if mr.Ammar Hreba tells him that the W.I.C.S. wishes to open some more Mosques in Malta and Gozo?
C. Farrugia
Jun 24th 2010, 13:04
What next? A Catholic-Muslim Inquisition?
malcolm seychell
Jun 24th 2010, 13:04
Muslims and Catholics can never agree on the way a society should be.
If catholics believe we are all equals, muslims dont.
Men are always the leaders in islam, they can divorce easily, have more then 1 women , sharia law etc.
So no thank you, we can never unite with a religion which has a lot of different ideas from us.
So the comedies from our church continues. I am waiting for the next episode.
C. Farrugia
Jun 24th 2010, 13:21
This is not really much of a comedy I think...... contrarily this is very very serious!!! Tal-biza!!
S. Calleja
Jun 24th 2010, 16:40
You basically concluded that religions divide people, not unite them. Well done.
Jason Fenech
Jun 24th 2010, 13:03
talk about clutching at straws ... what's next on the agenda? Sharia perhaps.
D.Galea
Jun 24th 2010, 13:02
Since you dragged Muslims in this, what about inter-faith marriage? What about the stress put into discouraging many couple which happen to be form different faith to marry each other if one did not convert to the others faith? As if these were points to be scored by competing sports clubs with taking in consideration the feelings of these people.
What about inter-Christian quarrels having similar effects on partners which are Roman Catholic and Lutheran for example? These were not things which happened in some distant past, even these are current issues. Such is HYPOCRISY!
Stephen Borg Cardona
Jun 24th 2010, 12:49
It must have been fun for both of them , finding someone with whom they share their extreme and fundamentalist views.
Mary Borg
Jun 25th 2010, 21:35
Some say "extreme" things whilst others DO in practice extreme things. Homosexuality is an extreme.
Face the truth Mr.
Peter Green
Jun 24th 2010, 12:41
At least the Muslims allow divorce even in Iran!!!
Joe E Galea
Jun 24th 2010, 12:39
"Same-sex marriages, for instance, destroy the entity of how family began with Adam and Eve."....Is the Bishop serious when he speaks? Does he know that Adam and Eve are a myth? Does he think that people are still gullible to the fairytales of the Catholic church which aim were to keep people under its grip. Of all the things that destrot marriages he points out same sex marriages which have no bearing or effect on the traditional marriage. Actually many hetero people are not fit to be with themselves let alone get married. That is one major problem. Then there are a myriad of other more sensible factors which have negative impact on the hetero marriage. So please Bishop stop preaching ultra-extremist muslim nonsense.
Hehe if Adam and Eve were real then we are all products of a lot of incests....pffff.
Aldo Gatt
Jun 24th 2010, 12:28
I fail to see how my UK officially sanctioned Civil Partnership could cause such havoc within families. Indeed our extended family, both in the UK and Malta is even more united since they were involved in our ceremony.
What, on the other hand, is crystal clear is that this is not the only point that spokespeople for Muslims and Catholics have in common. It can all be found in Old Testament, an angry and spiteful 'God' that is compulsively needy and who chooses to prefer part of "his creation" (his people) over others. What I find ironic is that this is the same 'God' to whom Catholics prayed would give them victory in war over Muslims and viceversa.
Yours,
The Home Wrecker (apparently)
J Farrugia
Jun 24th 2010, 12:59
That's what you think, only wishful thinking.
Raymond Camilleri
Jun 24th 2010, 12:27
Religions unite in promoting backwardness and interfering in other people's private lifes...
David Captur
Jun 24th 2010, 12:25
Sad, depressing, arrogant and I can't mention any other words which fully describe the monstrosity of this stance. When will these people learn to live and let live...*sigh*.
Alison Bezzina
Jun 24th 2010, 12:23
Adam and Eve? Seriously? Christianity and Islam do not even agree on this story alone.
The Quran says that Adam initiated the fruit eating and that both Adam and Eve ate the forbidden fruit, for which God later forgave them, and sent them down to earth as his representatives.
Original sin does not exist in Islam. Adam and Eve were forgiven after they repented on Earth. Also Adam was a prophet and therefore sinless.
On the contrary, according to Christianity, Eve tempted Adam to eat of the fatal fruit, and some early Fathers of the Church held her and all women to be the first sinners.
In the early 2nd century, Tertullian went on to explain that women were responsible for the death of Christ: "On account of your desert (i.e. punishment for sin), that is, death, even the Son of God had to die." In 1486 the Dominicans Kramer and Sprengler used similar tracts in Malleus Maleficarum ("Hammer of Witches") to justify the persecution of "witches".
So which story are we going with here? Or is this just a convenient case of the enemy of my enemy suddenly becoming my friend?
Robert Callus
Jun 24th 2010, 12:21
Still going on with Adam and Eve and talking snakes? The negative image is the one you 'religious' people give on gays. Lies that it is a disease, can be cured and that it's going to ruin society.
UNITY IN IGNORANCE
Franco Farrugia
Jun 24th 2010, 12:21
Archbishop Cremona should be ashamed of being seen and heard alongside Muslims, and in Malta, on this topic - on this topic, lest I am misinterpreted! Muslims have nothing to brag about and to teach the rest of us, living in the West, when it comes to family and so-called stability. Of course there is family stability within the Muslim world. Look at a family where there is a Muslim husband/father: he is ruler, whatever he says, goes, and his wife, the non-Muslim, is his subject, alongside his children. The children born in such a family are necessarily Muslim - they go to a Muslim school and they are unable to think for themselves. Heaven forbid if there is a daughter in that family - she will be forced to wear the veil, submit totally to Muslim traditions! That is what we term a stable family, according to the Muslim tradition! And slowly, but surely, the non-Muslim wife will be forced into compliance of the Muslim tradition: she will not dye her hair, she will start wearing clothes which resemble those of Muslim women, and she will not continue practising her religion, if she has one! ....
M Grima
Jun 24th 2010, 12:20
Christians and Moslems are welcome to their beliefs...just as long as they don't interfere with mine..which at the moment they do..too much so. They deny me the right to live my life as I want to live it without hurt or harm to anyone. This is not only unjust but in most of the civilised World illegal. We are living in a Theocracy where the only law is their law. Shame on you.You do your God an injustice if you could but see it. Willyou start excommunicating again or will it be the lash.Both of you stand guilty of it!
Franco Farrugia
Jun 24th 2010, 12:14
'The rest of the seminar, where four papers are to be discussed, was closed to the media. The discussions are also expected to touch upon issues of disagreement such as divorce and polygamy.'
I think the Maltese public has a right, a duty, to know what goes on in this seminar. To me, it looks suspicious! Plenty suspicious!!!!
J Farrugia
Jun 24th 2010, 13:03
Fanatics should be loocked up and not let to roam the world with their foolishness. Someone said something about 'the foolishness of the wisemen'. ANd he was right.
Franco Farrugia
Jun 24th 2010, 12:12
It is no honour for the Catholic Church to align itself with Muslims in denigrating same-sex unions. On the contrary, it is absolute shame!
Muslims in Malta need to be aware that the country is a republic, it is not an islamic republic and the State is - or should be - free of religious intrusions of any kind. I hope that those people who frequently write in these comments against Muslims will not start having second thoughts, just because they happen to agree with the expression of the Catholic Church on this heinous point!
Edward Caruana Galizia
Jun 24th 2010, 12:08
I really don’t understand this. The Church can go around and preach it’s homophobic and discriminatory rubbish to all and sundry and then all the LGBT citizens have to tip toe around their sensitivities and be nice to the Church and not offend it. These double standards go beyond a bias opinion. It demonstrates our government’s total ignorance on any subject to do with social minorities.
It’s priest that have been feeling up young children, and it s the Church that has gone out of it s way to cover it all up, and it s heterosexuals who want divorce and have children out of wedlock. All gay people want is to get married and have their union recognized by their country as equal to any other. And the Church bases it s opinion on the matter on Adam and Eve- a story that has nothing to do with sexuality. Great! So science has to remain quiet on the subject because the Church wants us to base our lives on the plot of fairy tales. What’s next? Don’t bring in divorce because step mothers are evil, as we can see in Cinderella?