Swieqi man fined €500 over Facebook comment
A man who posted a comment on Facebook saying that the Pope should be shot in his hand, feet and in his side just as Christ was, was today condemned to a month in jail suspended for a year and fined €500.
Karl Farrugia, 24, formed part of group called No to the Pope in Malta and posted his comment on April 7.
He was charged in terms of the Press Act with incitement.
Taking the witness stand, Mr Farrugia said the comment was only meant as a joke because he assumed that the members of the group all thought the same. He wanted to make the connection between Christ and the Pope.
Defence counsel Owen Bonnici argued in Mr Farrugia’s defence that he could not be found guilty of the charge because Facebook was registered in America and therefore he did not effectively publish the comment in Malta but in the US. Although this joke was in bad taste, he did not mean to incite anybody to harm the Pope in any way.
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Steve Pace
May 22nd 2010, 20:50
I wonder how much he would have been fined if he made the same comment on prophet mohammed or buddha ? Perhaps stoned to death or given a 100 lashes on his bare back ....
D Phillips
May 23rd 2010, 22:02
not quite getting the point really, are you.
Steve Pace
May 24th 2010, 15:30
Which point ? Your point or mine ?
D Phillips
May 25th 2010, 21:52
Not sure you actually made a point, did you?
Audrey Costa
May 22nd 2010, 20:27
The comment is cruel, and reflects badly on the individual, which for me is enough punishment. I am quite religious and do feel upset. So, yes, people should be more respectful towards each other, and should not write hurtful comments. However, as Karl commented, this was a private conversation amongst people whom what he though, shared the same thoughts. That is why I hate facebook, 'friends' added are not necessary friends - one has to be very careful, even when writing innocent comments, people can misinterpret you and misjudge you (this happened to me, and it got me seriously upset).
Hey, Karl, hope you're OK and that you're friends with the Pope (or at least Jesus - who chose him), he's certainly better, and more trustworthy, than those who reported you!
John Farrugia
May 22nd 2010, 19:25
So theoratically at least whoever joins a blog were it was obviously anti Pope shouldn't they have been prepared to come across something of the sort? and in anycase wasn't Mr Farrugia in a way suggesting that our Pope be blessed with the same martyrdom of our Lord Jesus Christ? So please do give us a break all you "Christians".Just an observation for the people who are so easy to criticise. I m sure they would'nt have spoken in such a way had it been their son or daughter. Karl, Is a one hell of a person I assure you. Kind generous and with no hidden agenda. And one always knows were he stands with him so please before condemning, all you ritgheous individuals smell your own arm pits Kif jghid il-Malti.
John Farrugia
May 22nd 2010, 19:24
SSSShhhhh be careful everyone. You might be being watched and monitored. In a way its exciting..... it feels like we re back in the cold war aye? spies cloaks and daggers.... Please note "cloak and dagger" is a saying and in no way enticing violence of any sort since a dagger is being mentioned. But seriously. Half the popultion shuld probably be fined and thrown into jail since at one point in life everyone or most of us have voiced some comment of the sort. What also puzzles me is isn t facebook in a way a private thing? I mean you have to actually become a member and log in to see what s inside and whoever joins in is doing at his own risk and supposedly be grown up enough to accept anything that s thrown at her/him. Furthermore the fact that it was even a blog within facebook doesnt it even make it more secluded? continued
Marc Buhagiar
May 22nd 2010, 15:28
Remember Malta, we may be fined 500Euros for anything which is seen as offensive to others or if it's just seen as inappropriate. BUT...I'd like to know when this law will also apply to priests who speak their minds in the media? They've pretty much voiced their opinions again and again against divorce, abortions and homosexuals.
D. Spiteri
May 22nd 2010, 17:00
First of all I am not writing this comment to defend priests or the Pope........far from it.
This man from Swieqi was charged because he published comments which incited violence and hatred(which is against the law). If I done the same saying "Person X should be shot" I would end up in court (rightly so).
So, If some priest goes on TV saying against abortion, and if there is no law stating that anyone who says anything against abortion should be punished he cannot be charged.
Another thing (though I stand up to be corrected as I am not sure), if someone speaks in favour of abortion, can he be charged or not since abortion is murder???
Guido Farrugia
May 22nd 2010, 14:44
Allow me to thank Mr. George for claiming that the sentence was leniet. Maybe this HOLLIER THAN THOU roman catholic does'nt have children and he talks about somebody else's with exteme hatred. May i remind this gentleman that when he goes to church i suggest he makes himself seen, especially when he kisses the cross himself. He might need some forgiveness himself. This is my son we're talking about here and you can rest assured he definetely does'nt need you sacred advice.
Steve Pace
May 22nd 2010, 20:40
Well said Mr Farrugia. EUR 500 for inciting and EUR 80 for beating and assaulting a Birdlife member.
Robert Vagner
May 22nd 2010, 11:48
"Everyone has the right to freedom of opinion and expression; this right includes freedom to hold opinions without interference and to seek, receive and impart information and ideas through any media and regardless of frontiers".
- Article 19, Universal Declaration of Human Rights.
Malta being a member of the UN has signed the Universal Declaration...but?!
M.Pule'
May 22nd 2010, 11:10
But do your contributors realize that everyone has to respect the rule of law? Or should we all forget about our responsibility towards the rest of the community & start yelling/saying things about other people that come to your mind? What would your contributors say if these comments are directed towards them? Will they like it? I am 100% sure that then, their love for freedom of expression will seize and start asking for protection.......
A Zahra
May 22nd 2010, 10:14
Dear Liberals.
Freedom of speech does not mean that you can hurl insults or express hate at anyone you deem fit. Freedom of speech comes with responsability of speech. Insulting indivuals amounts to subtle psychological violence. By the way I think a 24 year old should find better ways to spend his time rather than wasting himself on such issues.
I would prehaps recommend voluntarily helping in one of the many institutions partly financed by the churh who help the poor, terminally ill, drug and usury victims, orphans etc... Then perhaps he might discover that the world we live in is much much more different than what is portrayed to him by the media.
Karl Farrugia
May 23rd 2010, 13:38
Well, I work full-time in a managerial position with an internationally acclaimed betting company; I play the drums; I study 2 languages; I go to the gym 6 times a week; I produce a podcast; I travel at least 3 times a year; I don't do drugs.
What do YOU do apart from making sure you're front row central in Church on Sunday, singing at the top of your voice to ensure everyone knows you're oh-so-holy?
Perhaps you should take your own suggestions and do them yourself since you seem to have to much time to waste on "such issues". Besides, I would prefer to donate and help associations which are not Church funded. I don't want part of my money to go towards getting a new sterling silver display in a random church i Gozo.
Richard Schembri
Jun 5th 2010, 10:00
Well freedom of speech is there since insults vary depending on the individual. If for example I am very insulted of people who wear T-shirts, does that mean I can put those said people in prison because they hurt my precious feelings?
Thinking you have a better sense of morality than everybody around you doesn't give you the right to forcefully impose your ideas onto them.
M Saliba
May 22nd 2010, 08:17
I do not believe that Mr Farrugia was really inciting people to really shoot the pope.
Although in Malta we have freedom of speech, as soon as you mention somebody you risk ending up in court.
We are back to the days of the inquisition.
Joe Demicoli
May 22nd 2010, 02:07
The church should have forgiven Mr Farrugia and not press charges as Jesus would have done.
But Mr.Farrugia should feel lucky he doesn't live in Jesus' time because back then, people who went against what the Church said (the Jewish Church in this case), like Jesus did, used to be crucified.
The church has nowadays become what the Jewish church was back then, with no sense of spirituality, concerned with the laws and pagan rituals which have nothing to do with Jesus and what he preached. No sense of forgivness and understanding.
The church should listen to what Jesus prached, "Leave to Caeser what is Caeser's". A clear indicatio that religion should never be mixed with politics, a lesson that all states should be secular, and that spirituality should come from within and not inforced.
You think Jesus would be proud? (Ghaxaq)
George Borg
May 21st 2010, 23:57
It is shameful someone can say something like that about our beloved pope who represents Christ here on earth. He rightfully has been punished for his sins, although his punishment was lenient. May he kiss the cross forgiveness.
Jamie Iain Genovese
May 22nd 2010, 15:26
Erm, don't take this the wrong way but the Pope is St. Peter's successor, Jesus is represented by the entirety of the Church. All Christians (including the clergy).
Just sayin'.
mark dawson
May 21st 2010, 22:37
Norman Lowell warned us what would happen a few years ago when he was sentenced a few years ago. freedom of speech is guaranteed by the constitution but that doesn't count for much these days.
For those that say free speech doesn't include hate speech i say where do you draw the line and who draws it? free speech is free speech. anything less paves the way to tyranny. The first amendment to the US constitution respects this and the second amendment enforces it.
Jamie Iain Genovese
May 22nd 2010, 15:25
Wrong. On so many levels.
One, Malta, not America.
Two, abuse of free speech results in punishment, just like the abuse of any other right.
John Grech
May 21st 2010, 22:12
A lot of commenters here have got a very distorted idea of freedom of speech. As indicated by a lot, it does not give right for individuals to incite violence towards other individuals. Also, the timing of the comment and its location were they were posted definitely didn't help who wrote them in the eyes of the law. One must consider that the timing was before an imminent visit by a head of state (yes, the Pope in the eyes of the law is as important as the president of the USA or the Queen of England for all it matters). Instigating violence against him in a group that was open to all public (it is not a private group) and created by individuals who didn't want the Pope to visit Malta was definitely not a wise thing to do. Although I see the sentence as too harsh, I am very saddened to see that most of the people who comment here have no clue about diplomacy, that certain people are more important than others. Case in point, why doesn't each Maltese individual get a state funeral, while presidents do? So please, prior to commenting get your priorities straight.
Kevin Cassar
May 21st 2010, 22:51
Not in the eyes of the law (supposedly). The President, the Pope, the Queen and I are (or should be) equal in the eyes of the law. The other stuff like ceremonies and mumbo jumbo are not what is being challenged here. I accept that the President, the Pope, the Queen.......hell even Lady Gaga is worth more in the eyes of society due to their positions and popularity. But guess what .... we have the same rights and should be equally accountable before the law. Reality shows us that this is not so, hence why we argue it should CHANGE.
John Grech
May 22nd 2010, 13:58
No we are not. While murder in Malta is punishable by prison term, murder of the President of Malta still carries capital punishment (together with high treason - are the only two crimes that carry this form of punishment). A crime committed against the leader/high representative of a country/state is considered as a crime against the country/state itself, it goes beyond the individual. So, once again - we are not all the same in the eyes of the law.
Kevin Cassar
May 22nd 2010, 16:58
You mention treason and I know you're quoting facts (unfortunately) but that does not make it less stupid. How can someone be accused and charged for treason when they never swore allegiance to the country. Yes we know those in power do what they like, but that does not make it right.
David Grech
May 21st 2010, 19:48
Whether you like it or not this country is still under the rule of the Curia...you can see this on numerous occassions e.g. the archbishop accompanying the prime minister etc. It's as if the archbishop is one of the ministers...You don't usually see heads of state of other countries being accompanied by religious figures.
colin stanley
May 21st 2010, 17:32
@C. Spiteri. I agree with you 100%
c spiteri
May 21st 2010, 17:14
@ c stanley talli qabez ghall maltin biex ma juhdunix il pajjiz min ghand uliedna
colin stanley
May 21st 2010, 16:57
@D. Degaetano. for your information N. Lowell was given a harsher sentence for saying something similar about illegal immigrants.
o.galea
May 21st 2010, 17:14
granted.... but for what he said in public for all to hear.. and not for what he said in his book ! you go on somebody's wall on facebook if you want to...out of choice!. it wasn't "out there" for you to see whether you liked it or not.
John Caruana
May 21st 2010, 16:14
This country has really touched rock bottom. So a member of parliament can "lie" in the face of all the country and this guy got sacked for E500 for being sarcastic on Facebook. Mine you this is Facebook we are talking about. This is a social network where people say anything and show anything. Who are we to pass judgements on such comments posted on this network? If one does not like what he reads he can make it a point not to go there. What about that seemingly independent journalist who has been spouting venom all these years against any tom dick and harry that comes her way? Shouldn't this also be a quicky for the law courts? Some said two weights two measures, but unfortunately its worst then this.
j theuma
May 21st 2010, 15:42
This is very very sad. Karl posted his opinion ,or what ever it was, on a private group. And still he got charged, month in jail, suspended, and €500 fine!!! What a country tal minnie mouse!!! It's like the middle ages... you say half a word against christianity and they'll burn you at the stake....
colin stanley
May 21st 2010, 15:38
@ Karl Mercieca.you said that one can say whatever they like, as long as it's not inciting violence against another person, is the Pope a person? is saying that he should be shoot , not violence.My so called Christ is some super being who has a following of over 1 billion people, who according to people like you we all live in the dark ages, as far as I know most people in the world believe in a GOD. To you and others like you, I say again, if you are such heros, lets hear you insult another religious leader, and show who you are.
@Celine Sciberras.. So according to you it's ok to insult the Pope, but not insult the immigrants.
Trevor Diacono
May 21st 2010, 15:25
What a sad sad country we live in...... Let the man speak... that is no crime. Kindly stop wasting our taxes.
lilian pisani
May 21st 2010, 12:54
It is a sad day indeed when a person posts something that he thinks is just sarcasm and then gets a suspended sentence and a huge fine like Karl got. I have one thing to say to Karl,who happens to be my nephew by the way. Keep your friends close and your enemies even closer. I have seen and heard a lot worse when in Malta and if everybody is fined 500 Euros for every blasphemy they utter the deficit in Malta will be non-existent.
Be careful,very careful what you post on facebook but go ahead and do whatever you want while walking down main street Valetta.
Joe E Galea
May 21st 2010, 12:50
Only in Malta.com!!
R Sammut
May 21st 2010, 12:48
This is just stupid, the court should invest her time better, and fine those people who are actually doing crimes. This poor guy has the right to speak how he wishes, the internet is a place where you can express himself freely.
Ronald Cauchi
May 21st 2010, 12:16
What a sad little country we are, where one has to think twice before one opens one's mouth.Im 67 years old and I have given up ot this island every being truly free from the controlling sacred cows that have held sway over us for so long.
B Sant
May 21st 2010, 12:11
dan it tifel tellajniegh il qorti u il pulizija ghada ma ghamlet xej fuq il kummenti li ghadda norman lowell fuq Bondi Plus!!!!!
2 weights 2 measures
C. Azzopardi
May 21st 2010, 11:43
I'm afraid we have created an ugly precedent which may cast a shadow over the future of freedom of speech in this little (in all respects) island.
Shaun Grech
May 21st 2010, 10:53
this is so sad....reminds me why Malta is what it is, and remains. If only people were fined EUR500 for every racist comment, Malta would go bankrupt. Where are the police with all the comments inciting racial hatred on websites we all know too well, against people who do not have the fortress the pope has around him? Where are the police with Lowell's comments on how disabled people should be eliminated using nazi style eugenics? One does not need to snoop too much or too far for this content, and the police can have a field day with matters that offend or hurt people in much more tangible ways than the pope and his merry men.
Celine Sciberras
May 21st 2010, 10:35
I am a good Freind of Karl's and I know what a great person he is and how much he likes joking around! It completely shocked me when I got to know about this!! Guido, you should be very proud 2 have a son like Karl! Its disgusting to see such hate commets towards him!! If we came to a state where facebook comments are being seen as threats, then I suggest they should go through all pages, starting from pages against illegal immegrantants and the disgusting hate comments towards them.Please note this page was created in Malta!!
Karl Consiglio
May 21st 2010, 10:23
@Ritianne Stanyer,
It was not said in public, but in a group reserved for those of anti-Pope sentiments
Patrick Apap
May 21st 2010, 10:17
Personally, I think that all these comments are useless as the sentence has been given.. this guy has been unfortunate enough since everyone got to know what he posted on facebook, and 10x to a "friend" of his who unveiled his comment and reported him.. the only lesson which we all must learn is that here in Malta, everyone can say whatever he likes, as long as it's not official and no one can use the comment against you since the "good" friends whom we all think we have, or those people who are in the same group (such as facebook) can sometime or another use their own idea against you.. so say whatever you like but just don't let yourself get caught or don't make yourself prone to getting caught..
o.galea
May 21st 2010, 13:15
Well said.
i can't believe this country has come to this ....
If I had to be imprisoned for the amount of times I screamed "im going to kill you"!!! to my kids I'd be doing a lifer as we speak !
PS... BTW i'm lucky to have a great relationship with my children.... (disclaimer just in case child services decide to take me to court) Big Brother is indeed watching and listening.... SHUDDER
Ritianne Stanyer
May 21st 2010, 09:53
Freedom of speech doesn't mean that you can say whatever you want in public. What if that same comment was directed to you? (With you I mean anyone)
C Gatt
May 21st 2010, 11:59
I don't get it, what if the comment was directed at me? So according to Ms Stayner i should not say she deserves a kick up the backside for making such a silly remark, as this would constitute incitement? Fine then, sue me!
'
stephen Zammit
May 21st 2010, 09:45
This poor guy was taken before our courts in a matter of days for saying/ writing something that was out of order, however the poor people that got abused are still waiting for judgment day.
Wow... guess not how serious the crime is but how much media sensation it generates.
I sometimes wonder who put the blind fold on the justice’s statue
C Gatt
May 21st 2010, 09:29
The shape of things to come? :
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/05/20/pakistan-blocks-youtube-facebook_n_582981.html?igoogle=1
j theuma
May 21st 2010, 15:37
We're on the right path mate... soon very very soon!!
*sigh*
E.Schembri
May 21st 2010, 09:26
Everyone blabbering about freedom of speech is wasting his time. There is no absolute freedom, nowhere, in any country, otherwise that would truly take us to the dark ages where laws did not exists and everyone may do as he pleases with the excuse of freedom of speech. In a civilised country there are boundaries, and this is to keep society in check. Go to the US, the most modern free country and make a similar comment about their president, you would be arrested.
The shame here is why was Karl's case handled so swiftly and punished so severely when we have seen worse criminals get away with a slap on the hand? For a clean conduct and a silly comment, I believe a warning should suffice. What about the hit and run cases of those two girls and Cliff, why is justice prolonged or denied in such severe cases? Our courts must get their priorities right.
This is the shame!
M0ses Mula
May 21st 2010, 09:59
A perfect comment. Freedom of speech does not mean the liberty to go around and offend people left right and center. The example of the U.S.A is a good one, only that in the U.S.A. like many other supposedly democratic countries they are extremely sensitive about their head of states and being ultra-patriotic makes it pretty impossible to utter a bad word about their country or critisize it, especially if you are of a particular origin. In Malta we are super sensitive about religion, with shows that the state has to leave more room for religious critisism
I do not know what this guy really thinks about the pope and the church but by assuming that every member of that group felt like commiting such an act shows that this guy is still very immature. There is ways and ways to critisize and to express your anger. Still, as you said in your comment this was a harsh sentence compared to the ones given to women-beaters and the like. And talkind about the Press Act incitement, when is Lowell going to be arraigned for all the hate incitement he expressed on National T.V.?
C Gatt
May 21st 2010, 11:57
Far from being a good example, Mr Schembri needs to explain his analogy with the US. Perhaps he can give us an example of a person being arrested for a similar comment in the US , or anywhere else for that matter. More to the point, that a country would look seriously at a real potential threat to its head of state is understandable, that a country should take a similar stand about another country's head of state is very, very debatable. (and let us make tone thing clear, this is no plot but an inane comment on facebook).
The fact that Mr Farrugia was not arrested during the papal visit indicates clearly that any 'threat to incitement' was not taken seriously. This is a gagging prder by an overzealous judge (magistrate?) and a very, very bad decision which has very uncomfortable implications.
Anthony Borg
May 21st 2010, 08:55
.... "He was charged in terms of the Press Act with incitement"... Can anyone please inform me who took Mr.Farrugia to Court?
I am not at all acquainted with legal matters, but who made the accusation against him? The Police, an individual, the Church hierarchy...?
Maybe there is a website for the law courts where one can check these things out...can anyone please refer me to such a possible link? Thanks
E.Schembri
May 21st 2010, 09:48
One of his so called friends must have reported him.
I'm quite sure neither the police nor the church have the time to check every facebook page on the Internet. Also, you must be a friend or part of the group to read the comments within.
Therefore one of his friends reported him and the police have to take action once an official report is received.
Lesson no1, choose your friends well on facebook!
Lesson no2, While the Internet allows freedom of expression, there are laws, and both a local and international cyber crime unit to make sure the laws are applied.
Anthony Borg
May 21st 2010, 13:20
Mr.Schembri - what you wrote makes sense.
I took special note of your 2 points at the bottom. Thanks Anthony Borg
Kenneth Cassar
May 21st 2010, 08:34
http://www.maltahumanist.org/node/43
Further comments would be superfluous.
A. Farrugia
May 21st 2010, 09:32
Great article and fully in agreement with what the MHA wrote.
stefan agius
May 21st 2010, 08:11
As its not enough that Malta is such a fundamentalist state that cencorship and divorce laws have been held back by over a century, now even on a ridiculous joke one can be taken to court. this goes further than freedom of expression or personal liberty. it's an extreemley worrying sign of how vicious some institutions can get when they are scared of loosing the blind following of a society held repressed for way too long.
ironicaly nobody swears and blasphemes as we the maltese do. Yet nobody would take a dghawa literaly!
C Buttigieg
May 21st 2010, 08:05
My biggest surprise in all this is that anyone really takes Facebook seriously !!, I think that if all the authorities had to do the same, half the world would be in jail and receiving fnes for some of the comments that I have seen on there. People just use it to vent off their frustration and opinions without any implications, or so I thought. It is a shame that a young man's police conduct has been tarnished because of this as I am sure that it was never his intention to intice anyone to actually shoot the pope. A couple of weeks ago I received an e-mail petition for facebook to take off a page that was all about defacing Jesus Christ. Up till this day, no authority has done anything about this and believe me some of the things said I wouldn't even say about my worst enemy let alone about the Lord. Although I am against any religious comments that may insult other people, I simpathise with Mr Karl and Guido Farrugia and I personally think that this should not have gone this far. A simple caution from the police would have been more adequate.
A Magri
May 21st 2010, 06:55
Reciprocal respect and freedom are two fundamental ingredients for a healthy modern society. Freedom means one is free to do good and not free to do whatever he likes. When these two basic rules are broken, society with all its limitation, is obliged to intervene... short of this, there would be a real danger of a return to the jungle state.
Joseph W. Galea
May 21st 2010, 06:46
You want to know something? He should have been made to serve the month in jail not suspended the sentence.
And the fine should have been 5000 not 500 because that is how some of the idiots who think that freedom of speech means anything they would like to dish out, are going to learn.
n.vella
May 21st 2010, 20:59
mr galea, the comment should be read in its context, it was a sarcastic joke, on an internet page and not broadcasted nationwide.
how come we never heard what happened to the extra 'nice' preists? take your head out from the burrowed hole and face reality...and not lash out for a comment of a 24 year old made on the internet, and believe me karl is no idiot.
Joseph W. Galea
May 22nd 2010, 09:24
@ n.vella
It was not a sarcastic joke. It was an immature statement made on one of the most popular sites on the internet and broadcast throughout.
And I will also tell you that a 24 year old is by no means a child albeit in this case an immature adult whom you say is 'not an idiot' but surely acted as one.
There are limits to free speech.
n.vella
May 22nd 2010, 14:01
then mr galea just close your internet subscription. the internet has worse immature comments. if you do not like such comments just do not read them, it is not like facebook makes you read them. as the article said the group was called " No to the Pope in Malta", which already indicates what type of comments will be found, if you do not like the title just dont join. same when you are at a bookstore or dvd shop, you dont take home what you dont like.
the limits of free speech always come in when defending one's faith, which is nothing more special than political beliefs, or economics policies and should be treated as such.
Joseph W. Galea
May 22nd 2010, 21:55
@ n.vella
There is nothing wrong with saying that one does not want the Pope in Malta. That is one expressing an opinion. But there is a lot wrong with someone suggesting that one should be shot. To me that is enticement and it will be quite possible that some imbecile would take the enticement seriously and does shoot a visiting dignitary. And that Mr.Vella, is no joke.
The limits of free speech come in when someone suggests that someone gets shot amongst other things.
n.vella
May 23rd 2010, 22:27
it seems hard for you to grasp what difference these is to take an action, to make a serious comment and to pass a comment on a facebook page in what was called bad taste humour.
why not filter the internet like china or some fundamentalist countries do?
Ben Gatt
May 21st 2010, 00:15
@colin stanley
So what your saying is that who ever has an opinion about a "leader" cannot say it......if you dont want to listen to other peoples opinion...i suggest lock yourself in a room...preferably in the dark throw away the key. Hopefully you'll get so depressed that head banging your head with the walls around will get you back to a normal state....just a suggestion...
Cheers mate...fyi dont read comments if you dont want to hear opinions..
susan galea
May 20th 2010, 23:34
If we juxtapose the authorities' eloquent silence on the pope's part in the child abuse scandal with its reaction to this boy's opinion wildly expressed on Facebook it beggars belief. It is dumbfounding, ghastly and shameful. Inquisitoria,l reactionary nastiness and hypocrisy in extremis. Is the Catholic church determined to alienate as many young people -and old- with its determination to protect paedophile priests and is this ghastly state of affairs going to be further emulated by the condemnation of the messenger rather than the heinous enabler of crimes against children by the Maltese state? We are witness to a shameful day in Malta's jurisprudence. Who will protect the idealist, the truth- teller or the plain fed-up with all the cant and hypocrisy that masquerades for good judgement and law in this land and that petrified Vatican state sheltering so many miscreants and sons of the church? Not Malta. This is a shocking indictment of what passes for serious thought in Malta and is nothing short of an assault on human rights and fair play. You are attacking the wrong citizen here. Why are none of these proven predators sequestered in the church being brought to justice? Ah, blame the parents?!!!!!
Pule' Carmel
May 20th 2010, 23:27
If I get to know that some person wrote down on Facebook that he was to shoot my mother and my father, should I believe him or not? Let us say that this plays on my mind and I become very worried about it, and as a result of my worries I kill him before he delivers what he said he would. Would the hurt he caused me, be taken into account for my action?
Can people worry me in this manner because they have the freedom of speech or written word? It is a stupid freedom if they can!
D. Cumbo
May 21st 2010, 08:31
Can't you read English? He did not say he would do it. He just joked about what should be done.
Frankly you shouldn't really care about that. What you should care about is how the law system in Malta has the right of fining you over something you have done online without having concrete proof.
Let me explain:
I'm assuming they caught the guy contacted facebook, facebook gave them the IP address. They contacted the ISP and the ISP gave them the address of that IP at the current date/time.
Now the problem is here. Imagine I have an open wireless network(because I'm a kind hearted person and share my internet connection). Therefore it also means that one could connect to my wireless network(hence have the same public IP as I do) and with some intelligent packet sniffing could read any data going through my network, potentially even my facebook password, or a password for a less secure website (which as we know most people have one password for all websites). That individual could have logged in to my facebook, put the comment there, and I'd have gotten all the blame. Do you think that's fair?
Ph. Micallef
May 20th 2010, 22:16
Surely a joke in very bad taste
Karl Mercieca
May 20th 2010, 22:02
@Colin Stanley
1.) I am, We are, and You are free to say what you like so long as it is not an incitement of violence against a person / group of people.
2.) I don't care for your religion
3.) The world would be a better place if everybody kept their religion to themselves, but the nature of the beast is such that no one has, no one is, and no one will do that.
4.) Dont patronize, who are you to challenge what one can and can not say? You are no one.
5.) If our country is ready to fine 500 euro for something someone says (jokingly) about your pope, who's to say what will happen should anyone DARE blaspheme about your so called Christ? You make me sick.
6.) If everyone in history never opened their mouth to challenge an idea, belief, law or government system, we'd likely be stuck in the Dark Ages.
Sheep. Go join the rest of the flock.
Albert J Mifsud
May 20th 2010, 22:00
How ridiculous to stop people making silly statements. Suggesting that some religious leader should inflict the stigmata upon himself is absurd. Giving somebody a suspended jail sentence for suggesting it is even more ridiculous. It was daft enough that our country spent vast sums of money to welcome a head of state, but jailing people for their opiniosn smacks of marxism.
Jeremy Azzopardi
May 20th 2010, 21:53
Reading stories such as this makes me glad I moved out of Malta. I'm ashamed to say I'm Maltese.
colin stanley
May 20th 2010, 21:45
I challenge anyone of these so called, open minded, modern liberals, to pass such comments against the Pope, about another religous leader, if you are such heros,if you don't like the leader of the catholic church,just keep it to yourself,we don't mock your leaders.
Lara Boffa
May 20th 2010, 22:20
Dear Colin,
You didn't really get the point did you? (rhetorical question...just in case I'm not clear enough ;)
Its not about mocking any prominent figure - be it the Queen, a political party leader or the Pope.
Whether one agrees with the mentioned comment (and the context in which it was written), or not, is ultimately pretty irrelevant. On the contrary, the following fact remains: everyone has the right to freedom of thought and to manifest beliefs in public or private.
So there's really no need to challenge anyone as many will still speak their mind anyhow - and thumbs up for those who do.
n.vella
May 20th 2010, 22:20
just do, open minded people are open to critiscm, and they also know about irony and dark humored jokes(if not its to everybody's taste). the guy just passed a comment, let it be. shall we install microphones in cars and see how many people wish well to their fellow drivers? and then just fine all 500Eur? we will reduce the defecit in no time
Fabien Sant Fournier
May 20th 2010, 22:22
granted that this guy's comments were in bad taste. but..is the pope immune from criticism just because he is a religious figure? why cant we criticise his policies just like we would a politician?
Such sensitivity over comments/criticsm makes me think that religious people are insecure about their faith. As long as you believe, why do you care what others think??
A. Agius
May 20th 2010, 22:51
Yes, as a start, your open-mindedness is jaw dropping to say the least. /sarcasm
Andrew Farrugia
May 21st 2010, 00:02
why challenge us if you then try to shut us down, fine us put us in jail and some of you even take us back to the inquisition?? challenge us when you are ready to accept it, you so called Christians.
When you are ready to acceot that some people want to be free from religion and not oppressed with all this!!!
Kevin Cassar
May 21st 2010, 00:06
Should we laugh or cry at your comment? How could you mock our leaders??? I think you'd have to have leaders first don't you??? Oh well, you couldn't really understand could you? I'll criticize any religious leader of any religion and show them for what they really are. If the TRUTH is offensive well - too bad.
Miguel Micallef
May 21st 2010, 18:00
I lead myself, thank you very much. There's no leader telling me if I can wear a condom or not, or if I can live with my partner or not.
As for you, Mr Stanley, just enjoy getting lead around by your 'leaders' and keep fighting with your fellow citizens for speaking out. I'm sure you'll go to candy land when you die.
J.Borg
May 20th 2010, 21:32
So we are paying our taxes so police can play around on facebook ?
M. Azzopardi
May 20th 2010, 21:23
He should have been fined much more...the sum is ridiculous
R Bartolo
May 20th 2010, 21:17
Maybe we CAN make the Police' job easier:
http://www.timesofmalta.com/articles/view/20100520/world-news/pakistan-blocks-youtube-for-religious-insult
Should be simpler.
We are in "wonderful" company here.
R Bartolo
May 20th 2010, 21:04
Are the Police going to monitor all the Internet now to check if any Maltese make any childish, juvenile and pathetic comments about anyone, anywhere? The prosecution of this person is nothing but a joke of epic proportions, and in principle has very litte to do with the target of those comments.
Aside, should the "perpetrator" consider that he may have been let off far more lightly had he actually physically assaulted the Pope perhaps?
http://www.timesofmalta.com/articles/view/20100520/local/farmers-fined-for-assault-on-birdlife-volunteers
And if this IS about "THE" Pope maybe one day we may assume sufficient maturity to understand that for some people "THE" Pope is of no greater relevance to them than the Dalai Lama, so would we kindly stop trying to control people's thoughts and their expressions thereof.
john attard
May 20th 2010, 21:02
Disgusting. Revolting. My stomach is doing somersaults from reading this. What a poor and miserable little rock we have evolved into. The guy commented on a facebook page for Christ's sake! had he been standing in the street,yelling obscenities placard and megaphone in hand, it would have been a different story!
this just shows that we are still clinging to the facade of a decadent world. we try to be 'progressive', we hear it coming from our politicians, but our government still acts as though the curia is behind it all. hello? is this 2010?
jaq. jahasra. disgusting.
Dr. John Zammit
May 20th 2010, 20:45
With this sentence I confirmed myself that Malta is Mickeymouse country because I was fined Euros 1,000 last Friday 14th May for comment about Joe Mizzi and this shows that the Pope is downgraded compared to Joe Mizzi by 50%!!!!????
Lara Boffa
May 20th 2010, 20:15
Ridiculous. So much for Freedom of Expression.
"Everyone has the right to freedom of opinion and expression; this right includes freedom to hold opinions without interference and to seek, receive and impart information and ideas through any media and regardless of frontiers".
- Article 19, Universal Declaration of Human Rights.
And what about Norman Lowell's website? Does this incite specific attitudes and behaviour? Have a look: http://www.imperium-europa.org/home.asp
guido farrugia
May 20th 2010, 20:15
Allow me, gentlemen, and otherwise to express my feeling towards my son, yes my son. People like Wilfred Camilleri, Vella and a very few more stating like, serves him right, should be sent to the inquisitors palace and so on. Maybe these people were never regaled with a son like i have and so proud of.
By the way, don't froget to make yourselves shown properly when you go to recieve holy communion as you realy deserve it. Hollier than thou. Thank you very much
Marton Saliba
May 20th 2010, 22:00
Well Said Guido, your song is a great person. This little-big incident won't change that.
Andrew Farrugia
May 21st 2010, 00:06
You should be proud, all this was blown out of proportion.... its crazy!!
M. Fenech
May 21st 2010, 00:28
I fully agree with you. Instead that most of the local media stated that Malta is THE MOST ROMAN CATHOLIC COUNTRY IN THE EU, they should have stated that MALTA IS THE MOST HYPOCRIT COUNTRY in the whole UNIVERSE!! And I really know what I'm saying!!
o. galea
May 21st 2010, 09:34
i truly sypathise. I have already make comments in the past on the times blog about the "Facebook Police"... trying to catch mostly young people at a moment of harmless foolishess.
pls tell us who took your son to court...... so that we can all be on the lookout .
M. Grech
May 20th 2010, 20:05
Whoever thought that the church is not still all powerful and stills has a tight grip on the state. Here there was no probelm for the police to proceed ex-ufficio.............Now if that was a case of child abuse by thew clergy!!!!?!!! it would have been a totally different ball game played with heads burried in sand. Shame on the outcome of this episode, and had it not for prosecution I for one would have never heard of it. Public figures, pope included, by thier very nature of thier appointment ought to be aware that they are targets for poking fun at, and should be able to take in public comments if thery like to fulfil their higher aspirations.
Alex Buds
May 20th 2010, 19:40
The act of typing the words into Facebook was committed in Malta, and that is what defines where the crime was committed. The Facebook page is indeed not hosted in Malta (most likely) but that is just the visible result of the crime that was committed.
The correct defense would have been to argue that the comments were not meant to be taken seriously and no rational person could have been expected to act on them, so the claim of incitement was spurious.
Paul Felice
May 20th 2010, 18:56
Joke or no joke, inciting shooting to someone publicly shouldn't be accepted, especially when it comes to the president of a country.
Ramon Casha
May 21st 2010, 06:14
I strongly suspect that the authorities would not have taken the same steps against someone who jokingly spoke about shooting (say) Ahmedinejad, or even Berlusconi.
Anthony Borg
May 20th 2010, 18:47
=A 19-year-old man admitted seriously injuring two sisters, HITTING ONE OF THEM WITH A KNUCKLE DUSTER. Graham Agius, of Santa Lucija, was yesterday given a TWO-YEAR JAIL TERM SUSPENDED for four years over the incident...(18th. May The Times)
=A man WHO POSTED A COMMENT on Facebook saying that the Pope should be shot in his hand, cheeks and in his side just as Christ was, was today condemned to a month in jail suspended for a year and fined €500. (20th.May The Times).
**I just checked whether there was brandy in my afternoon tea!!!
Anthony Borg
May 20th 2010, 18:39
Isn't incitement supposed to be saying something which then leads to violence? I didn't see anyone shooting the pope. We can now officially call Malta a Christian Fundamentalist country, what a sad day.
Edward Camilleri
May 20th 2010, 18:37
The authorities were quick to condemn Mr. Farrugia, just over one month after the publishing of a childish statement. Was the same done to the priests accused of child abuse? Even the pope expressed 'shame & sorrow' on CNN - but still we have not heard anything.
http://www.cnn.com/2010/WORLD/europe/04/18/pope.malta/index.html
Even the local curia confirmed some allegations "while there was a basis in the allegations made against 13 priests. Another 13 cases were pending" in the following article:
http://www.timesofmalta.com/articles/view/20100412/local/child-abuse-cases-curia-clarifies-position - yet we spend our resources on childish matters.
Amazing how things move on these islands when the 'injured' party is a member of the church. What a about e.g. the damage being done to the bahrija valley as reported in the website below? Was anyone brought to court or is this damage irrelevant?
http://www.timesofmalta.com/articles/view/20100518/letters/crab-burrows-crushed-under-concrete
We are becoming an artificial nation, with the wrong priorities.
Anthony Borg
May 20th 2010, 18:36
Defence counsel Owen Bonnici: do you intend to appeal this court's decision on behalf of your client?
P.S. Can anyone please advise me where to buy good quality duct tape?
Brendan Jackson
May 20th 2010, 18:15
Is Norman Lowell going to be fined and jailed for saying everyone except healthy caucasians should be put to death on Bondiplus???
Marton Saliba
May 20th 2010, 17:55
Incitement is kllegal, I agree and embrace that;
But my question is: would had he been fined the same amount, or nicked up by the police in the first place if it wasn't a religious figure?
It's not as if Mr.Farrugia is the first person to incite violent behavior on the internet. Even from Malta.
M. Camilleri
May 20th 2010, 17:32
SCRAP FACEBOOK!!!!!!!!! It's bad news
A.M. Takeno
May 20th 2010, 17:27
I'm from Japan, where freedom of speech has no bounds, and is protected by our constitution. We regularly poke fun of dignitaries and politicians both domestically and internationally. It saddens me to see that in religious countries in the Western world, this sort of 'crime' is till punished. I believe that attempting to silence people no matter what the subject matter diminishes a person's dignity. I hope that Malta will mature and realize that society can only move backwards by attempting to silence people via coercion or worse. I would expect this behavior from the MIddle East, but not from Europe.
Joe Borg
May 20th 2010, 17:45
Sadly, you're very, very right.
And I've just plastered this article all over the internet on the different forums I make part of. The only way to deal with stupidity and ignorance is to expose it to the people around the world.
As if we're not mocked enough for being close minded, ugh.
S. Calleja
May 20th 2010, 17:48
That would work in a country where people know their limits.
Neil Sant
May 20th 2010, 21:22
That is why Japan is a modern, advanced country whereas Malta is still languishing in the Victorian Age.
J.Cini
May 21st 2010, 11:08
Please allow me to assist you in your comprehension of English A.M.Takeno. You seem to have difficulty distinguishing between "comments" and "threats". The man was punished for making "threats" NOT for making "comments"
You will find that "comments" to cause physical harm is construed as a "threat" and is therefore a crime in most civilized countries Sir, including Japan and Malta.
As in the case of Kengo Ezaka who made similar "comments" in a similar forum a few days ago. http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20100512/en_afp/japanroyalsinternetcrime
Joe Fenech
May 21st 2010, 15:58
Neil Sant:
It would be more appropriate to say Middle Ages. He haven't had any Enlightenment which explains it all!
A Galea
May 20th 2010, 17:18
I guess he was an unfortunate individual who was made an example of to show us that "big brother is watching".
D.Degaetano
May 20th 2010, 17:09
Let's just slow down and think a bit....I've lost count of the times I've heard 'comments' from people about illegal immigrants being left to drown, being shot and loads of other stuff but never have I heard of anyone being taken to court about it. Now some might say the Pope is an important figure and so he is but isn't every human being important in God's eyes? Doesn't everyone deserve the same respect? Now, I'm not saying this man's comment was OK but I don't find it fair when comments about certain people are made such a fuss of while those made about others are not....but then again when have things ever been fair or just in Malta??
T.gauci
May 20th 2010, 17:51
So you want to ban freedom of speech all together just because you and some others find it offensive ? are you suggesting a dictatorship state ?. As a catholic, i find this man's comment offensive but i am all for freedom of speech and what happened to this man is completely ridiculous.
D.Degaetano
May 21st 2010, 15:15
@ T.Gauci
Maybe your comment wasn't directed at me or maybe you understood me completely wrong. What I meant to say was completely the opposite to what you're saying. I'm a very open minded person who believes everyone has the right to think, feel, believe and say what he wants in a civilised way! I do not find anything offensive in what this poor guy did. On the other hand what I find offensive is that he was sentenced (unjustly!) in a matter of days when serious cases of murder, hit and runs, assault and others take years. If the Pope deserves so much respect don't we Maltese deserve it too?? Malta belongs to all Maltese not just to the Catholic ones. (And before someone says something I'm a Catholic too...just without the blindfold!) Now that this has happened I expect the court to fine everyone who says something nasty about illegal immigrants, other religious leaders, and about every other person because every person deserves the same respect as the Pope. Now I know this isn't going to happen (God forbid it does!!) so Karl Farrugia shouldn't have been either!!!!
Darren Galea
May 20th 2010, 17:03
What's next? Fines for not going to mass or choosing to not form part of a cult?
Stephen Saliba
May 20th 2010, 16:54
@ E Schembri
" Why do you always bring in the inquisition? It shows your lack of knowledge about history."
Perhaps you would be so kind so as to enlighten us on the history of the inquisition.
Are you perhaps referring to the fact that the inquisition used secular courts to punish people? Or are you perhaps referring to the fact that we should now call the inquisition the "Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith"?
Or maybe could it be that you are referring to the fact that the inquisition in Malta was ironically introduced during the Renaissance period? It is indeed amusing how some things never change!
A. Borg
May 20th 2010, 16:50
Kemm ahna dojoq meta inridu!
Andrea Said
May 20th 2010, 16:42
What happened to freedom of expression, you know being a democratic country and all.
James Aquilina
May 20th 2010, 16:38
Amazing, one guy fooling around (I must admit that it was a stupid joke) get a suspended sentance).
And all these priests that have been found to be molesting boys have not been charged or even given a slap on the hand!!!
And they expect us to go to mass every sunday
I.Zammit
May 20th 2010, 16:26
I don't agree with th jail time. At least the magistrate should have reprimanded him and not to do it again. He just posted a comment, he didn't went infront the pope and insulted him or through something at him. If that was the fact, jail is a must. If a person blasphemes (which i'm sorry to say maltese people do use very cruel words of saints, christ etc) does he gets arrested aswell for insulting?
John Aquilina
May 20th 2010, 16:02
I agree with E.Schembri. I think a warning would have been enough. The police/goverment/church take action straight away when it's something against the church. BUT, things that aren't directly related to the church - no big deal! Well, I guess the fireworks factories are, no?
M Pace Bonello
May 20th 2010, 15:58
"I wasn't expecting some kind of Spanish Inquisition!"
J Borg
May 20th 2010, 16:06
"Nobody expects the Spanish Inquisition!"
Andy Spiteri
May 20th 2010, 15:55
OMG.. i just cant belive what i read.
well i must say.. there was a person once that gave us a good song, and onestly he deserves a huge oscar for: thank fo the song "PAJJIZ TAL- MICKEY MOUSE" John Bundy. you were so right.
(issa i hope im not getting arrested ukoll ux.... lol) for expressing my self.
AAzzopardi
May 20th 2010, 15:39
The comment is stupid to say the least, although I believe that everyone has the right to say what he feels. Likewise, I can say that this person was stupid to write such things.
However, why do certain things go punished and other aren't even brought to justice.
Andrew Gatt
May 20th 2010, 15:32
Ok, for "shoot" read "crucify". Wanna bet it would have made no difference?
J Farrugia
May 20th 2010, 15:22
Imma dawn x'nies huma? Li min jaghmel il-hazin (anke b'cajta fuq l-internet) incapcpulu u rridu naghmluh eroj? LE ... Dak habs kien haqqu. Talli xewwex ghal vjolenza kontra l-persuna tal-Papa. Seta' kien missieru, setghet kienet ommu. Mhux li kien ghad ghandna s-santa inkwisizzjoni. Aqta kemm tidhku kieku. Veru ghandna nies bla sinsla morali u civika. Ghandna pajjiz ta' nies cinici, inkreduli, u qlafat.
Andrew Farrugia
May 20th 2010, 15:52
U bliema mod xewwex il vjolenza fuq il papa ???
U jekk trid l inkwizizjoni tkellem alik ta... Niftakar meta konna zghar tallimna li Malta itik il liberta tar-religjon.. Xi zball kellu it teacher tal year 6!!
Awekk jekk mintiex "kristjan" tigi kunsidrat/a bla sinsla....
U ma nahsibx li qed namluh eroj ax alija ma presjonani xejn, il kumment tiju m affetwaniex ax ma jinteressaniex mil- papri. Ima billi amlu ma jfissirx li anna alfejn nikundanawh...
Xi darba forsi titallem bil freedom of speech!!
Ron Saliba
May 20th 2010, 16:01
extremism at its best (your comment ie.)
A. Farrugia
May 20th 2010, 16:32
L-inkwizizzjoni trid??? int bis-serjeta?? meta l-KNISJA STESS ghamlet apologija ghal dak li sar matul dal-perjodu?? Ara vera hawn min jahseb li hu 'holier than the pope' kif jghidu.
Il-kumment vera kien stupidu imma li tghid li kumment bhal dak ghandu jwassal ghal habs jew aghar minn hekk inkwizizjoni turi kemm fil-fatt int ghad ghandek mohhok estremist u mghaluq. Ma nafekx personalment, imma b'kumment hekk imbuttajtni hafna Sur Farrugia.
Andrew Gatt
May 20th 2010, 19:27
J farrugia, missek taghmel website biex tpaxxina bil-vizjoni moderna u dinamika tieghak.
U tinsix issemmieh "www.xejnsew.com"
A. Bartolo
May 20th 2010, 23:57
Ma nistax ma nikkumentax ghal kumment vera baxx bhal-dan, imma nahseb li nies bla sinsla morali u civika huma dawk li jiridu li jkun hawn is-santa inkwisizzjoni.
M. Fenech
May 21st 2010, 00:40
U int mhux ixewwex qieghed? Kemm tifilhu tkunu ipokriti. Ara sewwa qalilkom Gesu Kristu, li int OQBRA IMBAJDA! Tilghabuha ta' nsara u hlief hdura m'ghandkomx. Taghmlu ezatt l'oppost li kien jippriedka Gesu. Mhux ta' b'xejn li hafna nies tbieghdu mill-knisja.
Andrew Farrugia
May 20th 2010, 15:12
U Malta tibqa sejra lura.. Qadt m ahna ha nihdu r-ruh minn din il mediokrita kolla.
Namlu hoss biex il papa jkun kuntent bina halli jerga jigi u nxejruwlu l bnadar halli jkollna post il genna...
Umbad tkun kaccatur tattaka lin nies nejduwlhom msiken il gvern qerdilhom id delizju.. u dawk ma jimpurtax isawtu.
Igifieri teknikament ahjar issawaat milli tuza Facebook!!
Kontradizjoni wara l ohra!!
Manwel Borg
May 20th 2010, 15:46
The pope's the pope, you understand, not some fanatic crying over a dead bird!
John Ransley
May 20th 2010, 15:09
this guy has the freedom of speech, true. but i think you forgetting that he said to shoot the pope and christ wasn't shot. the pope is a head of state and must be treated as such. noone said he could not express himself but obviously to a limit and not expressing ignorance
E.Schembri
May 20th 2010, 15:01
@Stephen Saliba
Inciting murder or threatening with murder is no joking matter and is a crime in Malta and all civilised countries, whether it is the pope, the president or your next door neighbour. Why do you always bring in the inquisition? It shows your lack of knowledge about history.
On the other hand, it is a shame that we see hundreds of other more serious crimes from relapser's who get off with a slap on the hand after trials lasting for decades. Is this a case of two weights two measures??
If this crime deserves a €500 fine and suspended sentence, then I expect other crimes such as attempted murder, carrying a weapon and drunk driving to get at least a €5000 fine plus actual jail term, as the possible outcome is far more dangerous than a silly comment on facebook.
Alfred Bugeja
May 20th 2010, 14:58
Saying that anyone "should be shot" is an offence that falls under the Criminal Code (Cap 9) fair and square, just like stealing is. The same metre should be used against those who incite similar violence and hatred against immigrants.
Such behaviour seems to have become the order of the day thanks to the excuse of freedom of speech. It's about time that the law courts start sending the message that freedom and liberty are alive and well, but they are not absolute, and that there will be consequences if you abuse them.
Jason Aquilina
May 20th 2010, 14:45
In the old days, you would have been thrown in Mount Carmel nuthouse if you uttered any justified grievance against a priest. Does this mean that this is going to happen again?
Mintoff had many flaws, but stopping this abuse of power was one of his greatest achievements...
Mario Caruana
May 20th 2010, 14:42
kumment ingenerali u mhux dwar dan il-kaz...
....jigifieri minhabba il-famuz "dritt tal-espressjoni" nippretendu li kulhadd jghid u jikteb li jrid fuq dik u 'l ohra?
D. Farrugia
May 20th 2010, 14:41
People like Mr. Karl Farrugia and all the people defending Mr. Farrugia are immature, because they do not know the basic rules of respect. These so-called 'progressive people' trying to look cool by offending the church are not cool or funny.I disagree with many things on facebook, yet I do not offend anyone for any reason whatsoever. That is childish & hooligan behaviour at its best.
Some people really need to learn the basic understanding of the word 'respect'. These people are such cowards that they are afraid of insulting and offending other religious leaders (ex. Muslim) in the same way. They are such cowards that they also would not do the same thing to their best friend's mother/relative. So why do they offend the church and its leaders when they know how close it is to many people's (the absolute majority) heart?
These people want to imply that the majority of people in Malta are against the Church, but as it could be seen when the Pope came to Malta, Malta welcomed the Pope:) The 'virtual' community can say what it wants but when the Pope came to Malta, all the world saw the 'real world' !!
Trevor Zahra
May 20th 2010, 14:37
WOW ...so the court can get cases heard and cleared in a single session??
Timothy Cachia
May 20th 2010, 14:32
I don't agree with what this man said, but where is freedom of speech? If I had to get arrested everytime I say 'I will kill you' to someone I would have a life sentence...
Adrian Vella
May 20th 2010, 14:26
mela morna lura f'xi time machine??? Qisna fil- medju evu!!!!
Joe Fenech
May 20th 2010, 14:26
Ara veru Malta m'ghandniex x'naghmlu!
John Attard
May 20th 2010, 14:19
I agree that the facebook page was done in bad taste BUT 1 month in jail???? My God ... from my personal experience as a witness where i was asked to testify against someone in favour of the Police....i never received a letter of 'diferita' which seems to be the order of the day... the magistrate immediately didn't like me or gave me a chance to explain why i arrived 5 minutes late.....the defending lawyer saw this as an opportunity...the next time i went there was asked to get out because my suit was not up to the Magistrate's views of being smart....the 3rd time i didn't go because once again i expected to receive the new date at home...plus was unable to anyhow...orders that i spend a day in jail, a fine of over 200 Eur ....ALL this because the law courts are all about games and making more money then they should to benefit the pockets of the lawyer. What about educating the public, what about being efficient , what about giving a chance to see what the witness has to say for once! SHAME!
Martin Cassar
May 20th 2010, 14:15
The Pope is the Pope. Respecting him is a must ad to disagree with him is your choice. If you fail to comprehend this simple equation it’s your problem indeed.
I sometimes fail to comprehend people’s appreciation of democracy. Absolute democracy and absolute freedom never existed anywhere in the world at any given point of time. All democracies have laws for self-protection and protecting the entire society at large? What’s wrong with that?
I challenge anyone to mention just ONE SINGLE COUNTRY where absolute democracy and freedom of expression exists or ever existed. My challenge is open and wide to include Iran and Taliban, France and the USA, Zimbabwe and Norway………etc
Kenneth Cassar
May 20th 2010, 14:45
"Respecting him is a must" - actually it isn't. But that aside, I would agree that incitement to violence is unacceptable, as long as it applies to everybody. Apparently, it isn't.
Andrew Agius
May 20th 2010, 15:02
Respecting the Pope IS NOT A MUST!
Especially this Pope to be fair. Respect is to be earned.
So what if nobody has ever achieved Absolute democracy and Freedom of Speech. Is that an excuse to become more like those countries who have (never absolutely either) attempted to crush free speech?
If Jesus were in Malta none of this would be happening - he would have been fined and locked up for daring to have a pop at the Rabbis.
Manwel Borg
May 20th 2010, 15:55
@ Kenneth Cassar
Perhaps you'd care to explain why respecting the Pope isn't a must.
Is respecting some sentient, innocent, defenceless, harmless .... you name it ....feathered creature more of a must perhaps?
n.vella
May 20th 2010, 22:11
of course it is not a must, religion any religion gets shielded way too much by respect. it is a public institution and should be open to criticism like the rest of the institutions.
i wonder how much posts or police action taken if the the facebook comment did not refer to the pope but to some other religious leader...
Kenneth Cassar
May 21st 2010, 07:41
@ Manwel Borg:
Respecting the Pope is as much a must as your respecting me is...not at all. Respect in the general sense of the word, is earned and not owed. I have every right not to respect anyone I like. It is how I act on my lack of respect towards someone that has its limits and restrictions.
I have every right not to respect you, for instance, but I still have no right to treat you unjustly, because the right to fair treatment overrides the right to choose whom to respect. And this applies to all sentient, innocent, defenceless creatures that you mention.
I hope this answers your question.
F.Dean
May 20th 2010, 14:10
This is really scary. It's as if we're going back to the time of the inquisition :S :S or at the futuristic view of Orwell's world..This is very scary and dangerous. No one should be happy about it I guess, it's really worrying.
Chris Mifsud
May 20th 2010, 14:07
If the said comment was about anybody not connected to the Church then i can be sure that nothing would have been done. No fuss, no fine... NOTHING.
In Malta you can almost get away with saying what you like about anybody, but then what is SICKENING is that the second anything negative towards the Church or religion is said or done the police, courts, members of parliment etc.. make sure to jump on you and punish you.
Shame on the courts. If somebody makes a comment like that about me, i now expect that he or she will also be fined 500 euro and be given a suspended jail term.
apgrech
May 20th 2010, 14:14
I think you are very wrong. It's in order to criticize and if the needs be, ridicule an individual but to issue statements like what this guy did are a no no whether it's the Pope or a politician or whoever.
DVella
May 20th 2010, 14:00
Serves him right!!!
Stephen Saliba
May 20th 2010, 13:56
I guess it's official, Malta has gone medieval. The palace of the inquisitor will once again be resuming its duties. The torture machines will be restored to their former glory and whoever is suspected of committing heresy or blasphemy shall have his soul cleaned.
No seriously, who in his sane mind would consider a comment like this by a 24 year old guy in a facebook group called "No to the Pope in Malta" incitement!!?? For god's sake did anyone think he was seriously inciting someone to shoot the pope in his cheeks!!? Since when does the Press Act regularize facebook!
Isn't this sheer waste of public funds? Having police officers trace this guy down, summoning him to court and have a whole sitting for this stupidity!? There are years-long-waiting-lists in courts, hundreds of people awaiting justice, countless crimes being committed and our police and our courts go chasing a poor guy who posted a joke on facebook!! This is surreal!
John Falzon
May 20th 2010, 13:55
I disagree with the comment made BUT I do not think it merited being taken to Court.
However although the Pope is a PUBLIC figure and criticism is to be expected, what the guy said was tasteless to the extreme.
As it is, the outcome will be that many people will now keep their comments to themselves, not out of respect, but simply out of fear. On that basis, we have indeed stepped back 100 years. This is after all, what really matters to the authorities - that the "sheep" boiw their heads and blindly obey.
Which brings me to the issue of parking in Valletta. Prosit to the chap who reserved all the parking places for Parliamentarians, with the sign reading "reserved when parliament in session". How the heck am I supposed to know when the parliament is in session or not ? Duh.. Yesterday I only managed to find a spot after 30 minutes of driving around. Well, so long as they get their new parliament building.. I guess everyone's happy. Borat, anyone ?
Joe Fenech
May 20th 2010, 13:55
The Middle Ages are alive and kicking on this rock!
K Smith
May 20th 2010, 13:47
So there's is no such thing a Freedom of Speech in Malta? I would counter-sue at the European Court if I was this guy......
Julian Esposito
May 20th 2010, 13:44
Rather than a joke, I'd say the guy meant the comment as somewhat satirical or ironic. Although I do find it in rather bad taste (not due to any religious belief), I do not agree with the charge and even less so with the sentence! It seems our courts are vulnerable to sensationalism which I find quite scary. So if the writers of South Park venture to Malta, will they be arrested at the airport?
JOe VELLa
May 20th 2010, 13:42
"twanny ciantar
I was not born in 1939, although I have to say some of your comments are well taken, to remember, you failed to mention some others that come to my mind. If you did not have a church 'bulluttin' you were buried fil-misbla, to watch B/W TV we lined up in front of stores, selling TV, we used to queu for bread, milk and everything else, the only job was to sell your body to the king mostly in the navy, do I need to say more.
We belonged to the King, Church and those that were rich, if you did not have money there was no chance to enter university, and, no one dare open his mouth.
Sorry mate your points are well taken but I prefer nowadays.
Albert Vassallo
May 20th 2010, 13:41
Freedom of speech in MLA ( hlief meta jaqbel !! ) ZERO!!
Janett Aquilina
May 20th 2010, 13:30
And I thought Facebook was free from the old, wheezing Geriatric geezers who may flag such an ordinary thing. So now, if I say "the pope, to walk in christ's footsteps, should do penitence for the sins of his Church by being crucified" I'm liable to a lawsuit? Oh and also for failing to capitalise the words "pope" and "christ" as well perhaps...
Quo vadis, Malta?
dvella
May 20th 2010, 13:29
only a month!!!! And after let's perform that torture on him to see how he feels like!!!
Robert Agius
May 20th 2010, 14:24
You are a perfect example of christian mentality after psychoanalysis. You breed contempt.
B. Smith
May 21st 2010, 12:50
Oh, the irony.
C. Azzopardi
May 20th 2010, 13:27
To prove my point (if my previous comment is ever approved):
http://www.timesofmalta.com/articles/view/20100520/local/man-jailed-for-theft-two-given-suspended-sentences 2006 case
http://www.timesofmalta.com/articles/view/20100520/local/man-jailed-for-possession-of-stolen-goods 2007 case
http://www.timesofmalta.com/articles/view/20100520/local/swieqi-man-fined-500-over-facebook-comment 2010 case
so the law is rapid when it wants...
Paul A Vella
May 20th 2010, 13:26
So somebody posts a comment on a social network, he is arrested, charged with incitement, judged guilty and sentenced...and all with 46 days, impressive indeed!!!
Our own case in which our mother was killed in her own home in Sliema over 10 years ago is still dragging on and there seems to be no light at the end of the tunnel for the so called justice to be administered in this fair land of ours. We have been kept waiting for the supposed sentence to be meted out for the past 2 and 7 months by the 'honourable' magistrate only for some petty excuses to be brought up each and every time we have a sitting and the case gets deferred sometimes to a month or two down the line. Our next sitting is scheduled for mid-June and we can only expect this to be deferred once again due to some technical hitch for some time after the summer recess. Of course, the magistrates need their holidays, only the Minister for Justice should wake up and take note of the farcical situation of the court which happen to be under his responsability.
o. galea
May 20th 2010, 13:24
the FACEBOOK police strike again :-(
Don't know about you.. but i find it rather disconcerting that there is somebody out there, rummaging thru face book trying to catch somebody (a hapless Maltese citizen) during a moment of indiscretion, or simply foolishness; totally unaware that there are some so-called journalists or "friends of friends"...... who are ready to pounce on them, report them, paste their names on the newspapers and get them dragged them into court.
No love lost... don't get me wrong... but I wonder if that would have been his treatment had he mentioned something against the Muslim Religious Leader . I doubt it.
Regardless about my own personal views & subject matter..... but from a wholly general perspective...I find this episode childish but with very sinister undertones.
Yes, a total waste of tax-payers money.
PS.... i use the word "journalists" rather loosely... I don't mean All journalists just some people who "think" they're journalists.... (this is a wee disclaimer lest somebody decides to take me to court for slander)
This is nothing less than a modern-day WITCH-HUNT on facebook.
J. Cini
May 20th 2010, 13:17
To all who say this is just a silly comment...Try and make "comments" like that on any airline or customs hall anywhere in the world.
Jeremy Azzopardi
May 20th 2010, 21:39
Yes but Dear J.Cini, we all know that security measures in airports are being taken to ridiculous lengths. Just like in this case.
Edward Fenech
May 20th 2010, 13:10
This is outrageous. What should we be fining people who blaspheme? This country needs to grow up and stop behaing like the Catholic version of Iran!
Claire Bonello
May 20th 2010, 13:50
@Edward Fenech
This is not about blasphemy....it's about incitement to violence which is also a crime.
S Apap
May 20th 2010, 16:48
@ claire bonello
that's a farce - this man was put to trial because he wrote something against the pope of the catholic church; i cannot remember the number of times I've seen statuses of people saying things about other people (e.g. political), none of them ever seem to go through this process
Joseph M Scicluna
May 20th 2010, 13:09
To alll concerned:
Should Mr Farrugia's comment was related to your mother instead of his holiness the Pope, your comments would have been different.
Miguel Micallef
May 20th 2010, 13:50
Not really, I'm sorry. That's what you think, and the basis for censorship. I'm sure a lot of people have offended my mother, none of them got fined. I'm sure many offended yours as well, and they weren't fined either. I'm sure many other readers have had their mothers offended similarly, always with no fines.
But a facebook comment about the pope, that makes national news. You should be ashamed for defending this sentence. It's people like you who keep Malta the way it is, and making life difficult for the majority who want a normal country to live in, without religious laws (not without religion, without religious laws).
John Abela
May 20th 2010, 14:00
What an immature comment.
N.Deguara
May 20th 2010, 14:20
Well said John, Very immature...... if Karl said that to my mother I would beat the hell out of him but I don't think the court would have given him a 500 euro fine now would they?? BUT ... just because the person Karl said this to was not my mother but was the pope .... then yes the court presses charges.
D. Farrugia
May 20th 2010, 14:35
@ Abela:
Why is it immature? People like Mr. Karl Farrugia and yourself, and all the people defending Mr. Farrugia are immature, because you do not know the basic rules of respect. These so-called 'progressive people' trying to look and feel cool by offending the church are not funny at all, and not cool neither. I do not agree with many things on facebook, yet I do not offend anyone for any reason whatsoever. That is childish, and hooligan behaviour at its best.
Some people really need to learn the basic understanding of the word 'respect'. These people are such cowards that they are afraid of insulting and offending other religious leaders (such as Muslim) in the same way. They are such cowards that they also would not do the same thing to one of their best friend's mother or relative. So why do they offend the church and its leaders when they know how close it is to many people's (the absolute majority) heart?
These people want to imply that the majority of people in Malta are against the Church, but as it could be seen when the Pope came to Malta, Malta welcomed the Pope:)
A. Farrugia
May 20th 2010, 15:24
N. Deguara.
You'd probably be fined 80 Euro or something of the sort! :P Vide the assault on BirdLife volunteers and the fine imposed. You'd still be better off than Mr. Farrugia.
PS: I'm not a relative of his or anything and I disagree with both the comment (by Farrugia) AND the decision to fine him 500 Euro.
S Apap
May 20th 2010, 17:00
@D. Farrugia
The reason far fewer people openly insult the Muslim faith is because its got quite a relatively large number of violent and fundamentalist followers who might actually do you harm.
Absolute majority does NOT mean that a person's view is right/wrong, and therefore beyond insult/criticism - in fundamentalist Muslim countries, women may be beaten for leaving the house unattended, not wearing a burka and etc. With a fundamentalist Jewish view, working on the Sabbath means you should be killed. Christianity claims homosexuality to be in complete defiance of god, calls for the death of non Christians, and details, in quite a bit of detail, how leaving your god should be dealt with swift punishment.
There, now I've covered the major religions and pointed out some ideas that each have in their holy books - does this make them right?
John Abela
May 20th 2010, 17:17
D Farrugia, you are missing the wood for the trees. I pointed it out as an immature comment, because it is simply a taunt which is used in the playground between children - always bringing "mummy" into the argument and thinking that that will change any form of background to the argument.
I do not condone in any way the accused's comments on facebook - in fact I disagree with them and they are very immature, too. What concerns me is the censorship - people are allowed to have opinions, however silly, stupid, immature, or whatever adjective there may be, it may be.
Kenneth Cassar
May 21st 2010, 12:56
@ Joseph M Scicluna:
If the same comment was made about my mother, the most I would do is demand that the comment be removed. That would have been sufficient.
Marco Ramunno
May 20th 2010, 13:06
A joke in bad taste, true, but if you do not like it, do not read it.
So, now people have the time to check what others write on Facebook? How about doing some work instead? Who cares?
And what a fast response from our usually VEEEERRRRRYYYYYYY slow court system. I am amazed, and frankly appalled by the sentence.
Welcome to the world of inquisition, here! This is setting a very dangerous precedent. What is next? Shall we become like China, when it comes to internet use?
Andrew Gatt
May 20th 2010, 13:06
What efficiency! All done and dusted in 46 days from posting to fining! Prosit tassew. Pity my case and thousands of others are still stuck fast in a mire of laziness, no-shows, deferments, cancellations, postponements, no benchmarking and certainly no accountability.
In my particular civil case since 1997! The last 2 years of which JUST WAITING FOR JUDGEMENT.
Bah. Ghal hmerijiet bhal din biss nghagglu. Il-bqija, ic-cittadin jaf meta JIDHOL il-Qorti biss.....wake up Minister and DO SOMETHING ABOUT THIS DISGRACE.
Neil Sant
May 20th 2010, 13:03
Ashamed to be Maltese. My worry is that whatever party is in power, our country will remain in the stone age when it comes to tolerance and freedom of speech.
H Gatt
May 20th 2010, 13:26
And of course, suggesting that the Pope should be shot is supposed to be a sign of tolerance? Even if Mr. Farrugia really intended his comment to be taken just as a joke (and a sick one at that!) I'm quite sure you wouldn't be here pontificating about tolerance and freedom of speech if the person at the butt of the 'joke' was someone you love and not the Pope.
Neil Sant
May 20th 2010, 17:16
It's a despicable comment and in very bad taste but it can take very little for the authorities to go from fining someone for a comment posted online, to a crackdown on internet websites.
jvella
May 20th 2010, 12:58
comment was in bad taste but should never be a criminal offence.and where does jurisdiction of maltese courts end?!
A. Vassallo
May 20th 2010, 13:18
Forget the religion side of all this.
Pope Benedict XVI is also the Head of State just like President Barak Obama, President Nicolas Sarkozy, President Dmitry Anatolyevich Medvedev or President George Abela.
Imagine someone on face book telling all the world to shoot one of these Presidents in his hand, cheeks and in his side.
A month in jail without suspension couples with the €500 fine would have been a better sentence.
James Dimech
May 20th 2010, 12:55
Contents of the comments aside, it is really sick that someone was given a fine for something they wrote on Facebook...
H Gatt
May 20th 2010, 13:54
Actually he was fined for the content of his comment and not for writing on facebook!
Kenneth Cassar
May 20th 2010, 12:53
If the same yardstick was used by the police and the courts in all cases of online "incitement to violence", then at least the prosecutors would be consistent. As it stands, apparently what makes this case different is that the target was the head of a church.
Tony Scott
May 20th 2010, 12:52
A couple of months ago when Mr Fratini tried to bully our country I wrote on my MySpace Front page and also on posted a Bulletin. I DID IT BECAUSE THE MEDIA HERE IN MALTA BLOCKED IT….Anyway of course there were Italian people who wrote to me BUT only one TRIED to bully me (I did expect more than one though)… after I gave him the same medicine he TRIED to give me , he ended up being one of my best friend….
My point… so the Maltese Courts are there just to take someone’s money!!!! YET THEY USE TWO WEIGHTS TWO MEASURES!!! Mela if one beats/kill someone gets a slap in the hand but IF SOMEONE COMMENTS GETS E500…(BTW I am not endorsing what this person wrote)….
LOVE AND PEACE
Michael Vella
May 20th 2010, 12:48
And then we wonder why we have such a great reputation for being a backwards country !!!!!!!!!!!!
Graham Crocker
May 20th 2010, 12:47
The comment was sick, but its nowhere near as bad as the courts verdict, which suggests that if you are part of a powerful organization you will get away scot free from any crime, but if you dare comment against this powerful organization you will be brought against the law courts and have your criminal conduct ruined to discourage any sort of public dissent.
Wilfred Camilleri
May 20th 2010, 13:00
Apples and oranges! Cannot compare the two.....
Graham Crocker
May 20th 2010, 14:12
You've missed the point.
Save your fruity talk.
Robert Pisani
May 20th 2010, 12:47
No one expects the Spanish Inquisition!!!!
Mark Busuttil
May 20th 2010, 13:02
"Our chief weapon is surprise...surprise and fear...fear and surprise.... Our two weapons are fear and surprise...and ruthless efficiency.... Our *three* weapons are fear, surprise, and ruthless efficiency...and an almost fanatical devotion to the Pope.... Our *four*...no... *Amongst* our weapons.... Amongst our weaponry...are such elements as fear, surprise.... I'll come in again."
Mario Attard
May 20th 2010, 12:46
It is clear that most commentators are irritated by the way courts are handing out sentences. There were many serious cases that ended up with just a slap on the hand, while others got harsher sentences for small insignificant crimes.
This case is one of them: 500 euro for a comment, which ofcourse was out of place. Then just a couple of days ago a man attacked two women using a metal weapon and got a fine of just 300 euro! http://www.timesofmalta.com/articles/view/20100518/local/suspended-sentence-for-man-who-hit-woman-with-knuckle-duster.
What is going on in our courts of justice? Many are wondering.
Miguel Micallef
May 20th 2010, 12:59
I wondered, until I fled. I just can't take the risk. You never know what's gonna happen to you.
You see people stealing millions, punching sisters with metals weapons while on probation... they get away with some minor fine.... then you get caught with a joint and you might spend a couple of years in....
Malta is a very dangerous place right now, human rights are close to inexistant. Maybe many of you still don't believe this, just wait until its' your turn. Today it's those against the government, against the police, against the pope, tomorrow who knows who it will be?
Karl Consiglio
May 20th 2010, 12:37
Msieken il-Maltese Inquisition jafu jiehdu skandlu fuq cucata bhal din.
K. Pullicino
May 20th 2010, 12:37
Has reason evaporated off the Maltese? Can you guys see that you're defending a person who said that someone should be shot? There are ways with which you could express your disapproval of the Pope's visit but surely "he should be shot" is wrong.
Joseph Cauchi
May 20th 2010, 12:31
.
I think Karl Farrugia’s comment was useless.
As the saying goes “Look before you leap”!
JC.
G Mamo
May 20th 2010, 12:30
Tajjeb ukoll....... €500 multa u habs sospiz minnufih ghal bicca kumment infantili u bla sens fuq Facebook u mbagahd min joqtol u jimmanka n-nies bl-alcohol, traskuragni u ksuhat fis-sewqan (e.g. jogger maqtul fil-Mosta, cyclist maqtul u abbandunat fil-coast road, twins imtajrin u mwegghin h'Attartd) . . . . dawk..... dawk le.... dawk indumu s-snin biex incapcpuhielhom halli forsi jitghalmu jgibu ruhhom ta' nies xi darba. Ara veru s-sistema tal-hekk imsejha gustizzja f'dan il-pajjiz minsi minn alla hija sistema totalment falluta. Raguni ohra fil-lista tieghi biex inkun nixtieq inparpar minn hawn darba ghal dejjem u ma nersaq qatt iktar. Tibzax, hekk qed niprova naghmel.
Twanny Ciantar
May 20th 2010, 12:26
That man should be dragged at the palace of the Inquisitor, and be judged by a representative of God.
Oh .... how I miss Archbishop Gonzi's times! God bless his soul.
Joseph Micallef
May 20th 2010, 12:47
You have been born a century late. You belong to the early 1900s. Close mindedness at its best
Twanny Ciantar
May 20th 2010, 13:06
For your info Mr. Micallef, I was born in 1922. Those were the times where children respected their parents, had values, and were raised as true Catholics. Now we live in a "Catholic" Capitalist Society which has prostituted this country, its citizens and its values for profit. Today's Curia lacks the spine to fight back this scourge!
I much prefer to be close minded and live in those heavenly times. Thank you very much!
Andrew Azzopardi
May 20th 2010, 13:21
I hope you are being sarcastic! you cant really thing that in this day and age the church should have power in the government! its already to influential in this brainwashed country, and we are still suffering from church's interfering in the past.
If you truly believe what you have just said, then you are sir the perfect example of "How Democracy Fails"
Richard W Curmi
May 20th 2010, 13:55
Well said Sur Twanny, god bless you.And to all those defending free speech and what have you,there is a line were even in a free society you can never jump, it is not allowed, otherwise we will enter an anarchy society. get that in your thick heads. respect, and you will have all the free speech you can have.
John Abela
May 20th 2010, 13:55
Initially I thought you were joking Mr. Ciantar! I have all respect towards the older generation, however the world has woken up and realised that.. times have changed, people are different, and people have become more intelligent and do not need any religions to make decisions for them.
Robert Agius
May 20th 2010, 14:38
Things might have been different then Twanny, but you sure are still not so bright now. Seems like you are misdirecting you frustrations on the wrong people. You mention new 'christian' CAPITALIST society. ...i repeat, CAPITALIST society. Which generation should be blame Twanny? hang on...erm, let go even further back (a visit to the Vatican would suffice) , value = money, you sure they were so different back then?
There might be a quick way to your ideal world however. Perhaps Heaven is like it was back in 1922, why don't you go and find out?
M. Borg
May 20th 2010, 15:18
Go back to 1922 Mr. Ciantar
Twanny Ciantar
May 20th 2010, 15:38
Mr. Robert Agius ..... Are you telling me to kill myself in order to find out whether heaven is like how it was back in my youth?
Don't worry .... i'm 88, I probably don't have much left to live. As for you, even though you are arrogant, I hope you will live up to my years.
Robert Agius
May 20th 2010, 17:14
Yep, arrogant indeed, and that makes two of us.
The difference is, I can see my own arrogance when I posted such comments. Do you fail to see yours?
John Abela
May 20th 2010, 17:14
Hi Twanny, even though, as is obvious, I do not agree with you and your point of view - I must say that not all people who disagree with you are as arrogant as Robert Agius and M. Borg. Deplorable, immature, and downright stupid comments.
Joseph Micallef
May 20th 2010, 18:12
God Bless You Twanny! Ad Multos Annos
I wrote the previous comment above.
I am a believer and I consider myself a practicising Roman Catholic, but it was my choice, nothing else. Moreover, I respect those who don't believe because religion is a personal choice and it should not be enforced on anyone. Yes, there should be respect and what this guy did in surely a sick joke but it does not merit a suspended sentence and a black mark on his police conduct certificate. Moreover, Arch. Gonzi represents a black mark in the history of our church, our religion is about LOVE and he preached exclusion. Moreover, as a Catholic you should be praying for this guy not condeming him. This guy needs to be shown religion is about love and not a disciplinary regime. Moreover, the state and church should be separte once and for all.
Also, a quick look online you should note that what he's done is a micro drop in an ocean.
P.s. remember that to be able to throw the first stone you should be free from sin.
M. Fenech
May 21st 2010, 00:36
Mela tiftakru i'interdett habib? Ara veru ghad hawn nies li jghixu biss bl'ossessjoni tar-religjon! U inti m'intix qed tinstiga li tixieq qed nghixu fi zmien dlamijiet mill-aktar koroh, u hruxijiet mill-aktar kiefra, basta fl'isem t'alla? Jaqaw bi hsiebek tigbor il-firem biex dak il-bravu li dahhal l'interdett, jghamluh QADDIS? Tiehux hsieb siehbi, nghatuk palata tajba! U hallina, mur iftah mohhok ma' blata taz-zonqor u imlieh bil-melh ohxon, forsi tibda tinbet ftit inteligenza, jekk mhux skadut wahda u sew.
KJ Tabone
May 20th 2010, 12:24
Allahares one had to troll through the whole internet to find all the rubbish posted online that might be offensive, or may incite hatred of one thing or another!! The court cases would be never ending!
All this political correctness is what's driving the world into the ground!
I think it's about time people developed an open mind on all subjects.
Wilfred Camilleri
May 20th 2010, 12:55
This has nothing to do with political correctness. Talking about shooting someone whether the Pope or someone else is a serious matter. Making a threat is always regarded serious by any court of law in Malta or in any other country.
KJ Tabone
May 20th 2010, 13:34
@WIlfred Camilleri
Do you really think that the author of that comment actually meant for the pope to be shot, for real??? Clearly, sir, you haven't been properly introduced to the wonderful twisted world of the internet. I've seen and read far worse things than this, I can assure you, but over the years I've learnt to keep an open mind. Most of the things posted are said in mockery or sarcasm and aren't serious threats or actions. People not accustomed to this sort of 'humour' will take each comment too literally, as was the case here.
M. Caruana
May 20th 2010, 12:22
In that case, once we are starting to press charges against people commenting on facebook, what about the people commenting on irregular immigrants? If the police check facebook, they will easily find comments and groups suggesting horrible things that should be done to immigrants. I won't mention names and groups not to give them popularity, however, they can easily be found if the authorities want to find them.
Ramon Casha
May 20th 2010, 12:17
By what authority does a Maltese magistrate/judge sentence somebody over something on an American website? Is it because the man in question is Maltese? It shouldn't be - after all, the Maltese courts have no jurisdiction over what a Maltese citizen does in other countries, and do have jurisdiction over citizens of other countries when they are in Malta.
If Mr.Farrugia can be sentenced by a Maltese court over a comment on facebook, that implies that the Maltese courts have jurisdiction over everyone in the world for anything they write on any website. What next? Request the extradition of people from other countries to be tried in Malta for what they said on Facebook?
I hope that the defence counsel intends to appeal this.
Wilfred Camilleri
May 20th 2010, 12:57
It does not matter whether the web site was in Malta or in the US. The person that posted the comment is Maltese and I would hazard to guess he used a Maltese ISP to post his comment. That makes him subject to Maltese law.
Ramon Casha
May 20th 2010, 13:52
@Wilfred: It matters a lot, because - as I see it - if the website is in the US, then the item was published in the US, and falls under US law. It doesn't matter whether the person who posted it is Maltese or not - Maltese laws bind everyone in Malta (irrespective of citizenship) but are not valid anywhere else (irrespective of citizenship).
For example, you can go to Netherlands and smoke a joint legally. You can go almost anywhere and get a divorce legally - and it's formally recognised in Malta. You can produce porn films in many countries. Any legal action can only be taken within the country where the acts took place.
Joseph Cardona
May 20th 2010, 12:17
Inciting to cause harm (even jokingly)) IS a crime. And applying it to Internet, is like inciting the whole world. And we are not laughing at this foolish idiot who thought he was superman. And I am simply amazed by these negative comments in favour of another inciter. Why is it that those in the wrong think they are right, and the righteous ones are always wrong? Simply amazing. The world going upside down ..... Yes people like these should and must be punished.
joseph spiteri
May 20th 2010, 21:58
you are right Joseph. Hawn hafna li ghax jahsbu li kibru jahsbu li jistghu jghidu li jridu fil pubbliku. dritt li tesprimi ruhek ghandu kulhadd ikollu imma mhux b kummenti bhal dawn. Mhemmx maturita.
Adrian Cardona
May 20th 2010, 12:13
This young man's police conduct has been permanently ruined just because of a stupid comment.
Wilfred Camilleri
May 20th 2010, 12:47
Maybe he should have thought twice before posting his comment!
A. Farrugia
May 20th 2010, 12:03
So, someone gets fined 500 Eur for inciting violence, and then two persons who actually get round to BEING Violent are fined 80 Eur. The Court's logic is beyond me.
Mind you, I don't endorse the comment this person posted, I think it was a stupid joke in bad taste, but come on!! Let's put things in perspective. Maybe has to do with being proactive and doing things, rather than encouraging others to do it? Maybe the Court have some hidden agenda towards inciting violence themselves!? Clearly, the penalties decided upon would indicate that. Ridiculous...!!!
(vide: http://www.timesofmalta.com/articles/view/20100520/local/farmers-fined-for-assault-on-birdlife-volunteers )
P Agius
May 20th 2010, 12:02
So beating up birdlife members carries a lesser penalty than writing stupid comments on facebook?
J. Borg
May 20th 2010, 12:01
So for posting a comment on a web-site one is fined Eur.500
but then for actually physically attacking, punching and kicking a person one is only fined Eur.80 (Dingli attack on BirdLife members)
Guess there is something wrong in the logic followed by the Courts in this fair land of ours!
M. Cardona
May 21st 2010, 16:49
@J Borg
your comparison is fraught with irrelevance. Nonetheless for your kind clarification you may wish to refer to;
"Two Rabat farmers were yesterday fined €80 and received a conditional discharge after they admitted to assaulting two BirdLife volunteers, WHO WERE NOT INJURED IN THE INCIDENT."
http://www.timesofmalta.com/articles/view/20100520/local/farmers-fined-for-assault-on-birdlife-volunteers
So much for your alleged, "actually physically attacking, punching and kicking a person one is only fined Eur.80 (Dingli attack on BirdLife members)"
Considering that consequently your allegations are evidently untruthful, only one point is ultimately relevant after all, and that is your relentless grasping at each and every opportunity to target your pet hate.
I am not in any way condoning the aggression you quoted and do not in any way wish to partake in the ongoing debate on this particular news item. But your allegations itch me with their intentional deception.
edward bartolo
May 20th 2010, 11:58
Quote: "Defence counsel Owen Bonnici argued in Mr Farrugia’s defence that he could not be found guilty of the charge because Facebook was registered in America and therefore he did not effectively publish the comment in Malta but in the US."
Apparently, the defence lawyer forgot that there is networking transforming the world into a global village! LOL
Alison Bezzina
May 20th 2010, 11:49
Wow April 7th to May 20th.... 46 days is all it took for this guy to be tried, convicted and sentenced!!!
7 years later the priests who admitted their lewd acts are still out and about !!!
Joe Fenech
May 20th 2010, 14:12
In the law's eyes it was a very serious case!!!!!! WORSE THAN CHINA AND THE ARABIC COUNTRIES !!!!!!!!!!!!!
Joe Fenech
May 20th 2010, 11:43
HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
The inquisition is well present on this rock!!!!
S H A M E !!!!!!
J.Borg
May 20th 2010, 11:41
This is just sick, is there no freedom of speech in Malta ? Malta seems to be going backwards to the stone age....
Carmen V Gauci
May 20th 2010, 12:08
Freedom of speech ??!! What a tasteless comment.
Dave Alan Caruana
May 20th 2010, 11:38
The long arm of Maltese Law at work again..
I wonder what makes this 'crime' punishable under Maltese law, if it's Karl Farrugia's Maltese nationality, that the comment was published while the commenter was on Maltese soil (and in that case, has this been proved?), or that it was in conection with the pope's visit to Malta (so the same comment about the Pope visiting somewhere else would not be punishable)? Everything else is not Maltese (Facebook is in USA, Ratzinger is not Maltese, Christ either). What if it was a foreign national publishing the comment, or a Maltese national residing abroad? How was the connection made between the facebook Karl Farrugia and the actual Maltese one?
The lesson to be learnt is that the Thought Police are watching you, and it's important to anonymise and encrypt all communications. Free speech in Malta is dead.
Peter Korsten
May 20th 2010, 12:37
And what if someone wrote on Facebook that Mr. Dave Alan Caruana should be shot in the hand, cheeks and side? Would you still defend his right to free speech?
Free speech is a good thing, but also a privilege, and something to be used responsibly.
Anyway, court cases about the internet are interesting. Who has jurisdiction? Probably, the court figured that the offence (posting the comment) took place in Malta, and that it there did have jurisdiction.
But if I were the defendant, I would have challenged them to prove my identity based on the IP address. But possibly, that's exactly what they did.
Dave Alan Caruana
May 20th 2010, 14:31
I guess if someone suggested that I get shot it wouldn't have made it to court, doubly funny since most people call me 'Pope', but i'm just not 'the' Pope.
Still, seeing that I doubt this case was instigated by The Pope, who maybe felt threatened, it's more of a general catchall so I expect if I suggested that Mr. X. Y. Z (who is fictitious) be shot, my intent to harm Mr. X. Y. Z. would be the same, right?
The issue of jurisdiction is an important one - as is that of the burden of proof. I'd say Mr. Farrugia's mistake here was in (indirectly) taking responsibility for his posting (by saying it was a joke, that is).It would have been very difficult to prove beyond reasonable doubt.
Peter Korsten
May 21st 2010, 07:56
Nah, it's actually very easy to prove. You go to Facebook, and ask them the IP address of the person that posted that comment at that particular time. Then you check if it's a Maltese IP address, and if it is, you ask the Maltese ISP the personal and address details of whoever used that IP address at that particular time.
Obviously, if Facebook refuses to give that information, it gets a lot more complicated. But on the whole, companies are quite happy to work with the police, even without any judicial pressure.
According to Google, last year they received 'less than 10' such requests from the Maltese authorities, if I remember correctly. And that's just Google.
R Farrugia
May 20th 2010, 11:36
Are we SERIOUSLY wasting taxes to bring cases as ridiculous as THIS to court???? Malta; WAKE UP and start realizing the difference between LAW and RELIGION.
Pajjiz tal MIckey Mouse!
Marie Galea
May 20th 2010, 11:36
Goodbye, freedom of speech!
Wilfred Camilleri
May 20th 2010, 12:49
Freedom of speech does not include talk about shooting someone!
Mark Brincat
May 20th 2010, 13:03
@ Wilfred
Yes it DOES
A. Vasallo
May 20th 2010, 11:27
"only meant as a joke"
I never laughed so much!!!!!!!!!!
A very bad joke indeed. Cannot see the connection between Christ and the Pope at all.
Chris Fenech
May 20th 2010, 13:40
I wonder why you cannot see any connection between the Pope and Christ ;)
Robert Agius
May 20th 2010, 14:06
indeed, I fail to see the connection between Christ and ANY Pope throughout history either.
Chris Finch
May 20th 2010, 11:26
And yesterday, 2 hunters / farmers carried out a premeditated and sustained assault on 2 individuals and were fined 80euros. So human life is worth less than a stupid comment in Malta.
Morana Axisa
May 20th 2010, 11:25
Beware people, they'll be burning down your libraries next! lofl Big Brother is walking amongst us!
U ajma dawn bis serjeta?!
Chris Brown
May 20th 2010, 11:21
What happened to the "freedom of speech" does the Pope control our courts now too?
If he does - he certainly is not God so I wonder what else that makes him?
Matthew Grima
May 20th 2010, 11:21
Almost 500 years since the most exquisite and creative tortures of the Inquisition... we haven't learned and I doubt we ever will. We still want to burn heretics under our skies.
The christian religion has been holding the world against homosexuals, abortions and covering its tracks of its child abuse, and just because a person vents his anger at their contagion, he gets to be burned. Its a rigged game as always has been. Justice ain't blind, not where it has to cover its behind.
Christian Sciberras
May 20th 2010, 11:18
Owen Bonnici:
1. America has it's own press act.
2. Data, even if on American soil, still originates from Malta.
3. Ask Datastream/Go/ISP for cached data, which by law should be kept for at least a month.
I would be very disappointed with the Maltese Judicial system if they fall for Owen's excuse.
John Vella
May 20th 2010, 13:13
1. America has it's own press act.
That`s why he should have been reported to the US authorities not Maltese.
2. Data, even if on American soil, still originates from Malta.
Prove that to me... did they get the IPs from facebook security logs? If not there is no proof.
3. Ask Datastream/Go/ISP for cached data, which by law should be kept for at least a month.
So Go should be taken to court because it is replicating an offence? (Especially if it's caching porn sites for example)
The statement by this man was of a bad taste... but doing the actual physical harm is worse... the fine is too much for this case.
In Malta Porn is illegal... should we be fining all webmasters who take care of such websites?
Christian Sciberras
May 20th 2010, 15:45
John Vella -
-That`s why he should have been reported to the US authorities not Maltese.
The statement was on the premise that America doesn't have a press act. In fact, even if Malta doesn't condemn the comment over this, it is still bound to move the case to American courts.
-Prove that to me... did they get the IPs from facebook security logs? If not there is no proof.
The court can issue a warrant to search for data from devices used by this person. I'm sure ample proof would be available.
-So Go should be taken to court because it is replicating an offence? (Especially if it's caching porn sites for example)
Go is dutifully bound as an ISP to provide said data by court order. It is the main reason to store the said data (and not just caching).
The issue is not replication of data, but proof.
-The statement by this man was of a bad taste...
Agreed.
- In Malta Porn is illegal... should we be fining all webmasters who take care of such websites?
Yes. Fines are for everyone, even those sitting comfortable behind proxies.
Patrick Gatt
May 20th 2010, 11:16
Another all time low for this country... freedom of expression my foot. I anxiously await the day the Ministry of Truth is set up and the Thought Police instituted.
Christian Sciberras
May 20th 2010, 16:12
Oh I'm sorry, not all of us live in pubs and thinking up policies between cans of beer.
Hard luck to you.
D.Galea
May 20th 2010, 11:16
Being Christian in faith, I condemn and disagree with this opinion of this lad, but to give such a sentence for a comment on Facebook?? My God help us for a VERY dangerous precedent was just set.
S Bonnici
May 20th 2010, 11:11
lovely comment ehhh.... consider yourself lucky for having been fined JUST €500!! .. cos i would have accompanied that with a jail term!
ara tghidx li int Kristjan!
John Abela
May 20th 2010, 12:10
I don't think he does say he is a Christian. Your comment makes no sense.
R. Agius
May 20th 2010, 13:21
S. Bonnici ara tghidx li INT kiristjan/a
Lisa Young
May 20th 2010, 11:11
So much for freedom of speech. Not saying I agree with his comment, I don't at all!
But it seems like his comment was just a hyperbole of his feelings towards the Pope. I thought this was a democratic country where people were allowed their own opinions and views. If it was someone else, not the Pope, would anyone have taken a second glance???
Luca Pellegrino
May 20th 2010, 11:10
WOW...fine and jail for a comment....this is the freedom and democracy that we have in Malta ?
C. Sapiano
May 20th 2010, 11:10
Serves him right ! Hatred can never be allowed. Still I think the Court was a bit lenient as at least the fine should have been higher.
Andrew Gatt
May 20th 2010, 12:12
Yeah, right......why not burn him at the stake while you're at it. Or maybe have him hung, drawn and quartered instead?
Fundamentalist rubbish.
John Abela
May 20th 2010, 11:10
The medieval hammer of Maltese censorship strikes again!
Wilfred Camilleri
May 20th 2010, 12:52
I don't believe in censorship either. But there's a point when free speech has to be tempered with common sense and talking about shooting someone is not common sense!
John Abela
May 20th 2010, 13:11
I will not discuss the 'merits' of the comment in question - it is a question of the gentleman's opinion, which I do not concur with. However keep in mind that your 'common sense' is not necessarily someone else's 'common sense' - therefore you simply cannot judge.
K. Pullicino
May 20th 2010, 11:04
It's about time the people start being taught that they NEED to respect each other if we are to progress. Or are these the type of comments which make us supposedly mature?
Ernest Vella
May 20th 2010, 11:03
In Europe it is illegal to insult the Jewish Faith and Islam and their prophet but than when comes to Christianty we speak of the right of opinions...when a country denies her roots is condemed to die on herself. My MP.Owen Bonnici who is also the lawyer can tell there was no intention to harm...but still saying so insulted the faith of many people
Ramon Casha
May 20th 2010, 12:04
There is no such European law about the Jewish or Muslim faith.
TONY FORMOSA
May 20th 2010, 11:03
*SICK COMMENT.SICK JOKE.
TONY FORMOSA
TONY FORMOSA
G.Pisani
May 20th 2010, 11:02
Oh COME ON!!. 500Euros for a comment?? And those hunters who brutalized those birdlife members got 80Euros fine!. Kif xbajt f'dan il-pajjiz tal mickey mouse!
M. Cardona
May 20th 2010, 12:10
"Two Rabat farmers were yesterday fined €80 and received a conditional discharge after they admitted to assaulting two BirdLife volunteers, who were not injured in the incident."
http://www.timesofmalta.com/articles/view/20100520/local/farmers-fined-for-assault-on-birdlife-volunteers
Is this your idea of brutalized?
I too am dead sick of comments like yours!
Spencer Smith
May 20th 2010, 12:19
what about a one way ticket out of the island ? 44.90 Euros and you will be in Pisa thanks to ryan air, including taxes
re bel
May 20th 2010, 12:26
@ M Cardona.
have you not seen the video?!
In my opinion the footage shows a bigger threat than the comment posted by this guy.
Manwel Borg
May 20th 2010, 15:43
If you're fed up, what's stopping you from leaving?
A.Vella
May 20th 2010, 15:47
@Renee Bell
What exactly did you see in the video?
If there were any injuries dont you think that birdlife would have splashed them out on all media as only they can do?
The microscopic dent over the door handle of a hired(theres a surprise) car comes to mind followed by the dramatic stories of boulders thrown with intent of seriosly injuring the poor "birdwatchers".
Give us a break.