Church Promoter of Justice to meet alleged victims
The 10 victims who claim to have been sexually abused by members of the clergy have welcomed the news that the Vatican's Promoter of Justice in the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith has accepted to meet them.
Mgr Charles Scicluna, who is responsible for dealing with sexual and physical abuse perpetrated by members of the clergy, has agreed to meet the Maltese victims in June. Earlier this week, Archbishop Paul Cremona met the alleged victims and also offered to meet the victims and their families in future.
Lawrence Grech, one of the victims, said: "This is very good news for us. It shows that the Maltese Church and now the Vatican are taking our case and our pain seriously."
Mr Grech had approached the Church's response team in 2003 but says he did not get justice.
"We sincerely hope that, through this meeting, we get it now. At the same time, we continue to insist on getting civil and criminal justice from our courts. We have been waiting for seven years for our case to end but justice has not yet been done," he added.
Joseph Magro, another sexual abuse victim, said: "We are very happy our cries are being heard by the Church authorities, locally and at the Vatican. We are also very grateful that this good news is coming on the eve of Pope Benedict's XVI visit to Malta. All of us welcome the Pope to Malta with open arms and augur that his visit will leave the desired results."
However, the alleged victims reiterated they were still waiting for the Vatican to reply to their formal request to meet Pope Benedict XVI during his 26-hour visit to Malta.
The alleged victims have also asked the Pope, who arrives today, to specifically refer to Maltese victims of abuse in his public declarations during the visit.
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William P Flynn
Apr 17th 2010, 19:43
@Joe Zammit
Now who do you exactly think you're fooling with your circular argument? Do you believe readers of this paper are stupid?
Your argument goes like this;
1. Victims and their families are placed on secret agreements punishable by excommunication
2. They are told they are free to go to police; which of course they don't as they are god fearing Catholics and excommunication is unthinkable to them
3. So no child rapist priest gets tried in a court of law
4. And if they do the case drags on for 7 and more years
5. And so all we have are allegations as no case has resulted in a conviction.
But that's all about to change and no apologist and their circular arguments can stop it.
Evarist Saliba
Apr 17th 2010, 18:42
I have used the term civil courts to distinguish them from courts, or any other organisation, within the church. Action against three identified clerics has been in front of these courts for long years, yet critics of the church will go on ignoring this fact and the delay that this civil (as distinct from ecclesiatical) process has on the meting of justice that the victims desire.
This is evidence that these critics are more concerned with attacking the Catholic Church than showing genuine concern for the victims.
Raymond Sammut
Apr 18th 2010, 02:32
By using the term "civil courts" you have confused the issue, Mr Saliba. You simply had to say Malta's Courts. A court within a RC diocese is never a Maltese court, even if it's a Maltese diocese.
Critics of the Maltese RC Church aren't ignoring what you are alleging. On the contrary, they (including myself) have been pointing out that having cases of alleged child abuse within the church, along with relevant police investigations, pending in the Maltese Courts for seven years is a poor show from the Maltese government.
In the case of child abuse in Ireland, it was alleged by the Irish police that investigations were impeded by at least one diocese. The Maltese people have a right to know why these cases are taking so long in their Maltese Courts. In my view, the Maltese government has an obligation to assure the public that all parties are cooperating fully in these investigations by the Malta police.
You haven't provided any "evidence" in support of your unfounded accusation that "critics are more concerned with attacking the Catholic Church than showing genuine concern for the victims". You still need to explain your repeated and false accusation.
Joe Zammit
Apr 17th 2010, 15:04
When commenting on these paedophiliac cases that have allegedly taken place in Malta, we must keep in mind that
First, the alleged victims have already made clear that they are not for any compensation.
Second, on such cases they can never get any compensation from our Civil Court,
Third, they can only refer the case to our Criminal Court. They can do this simply by speaking to a lawyer. From the Criminal Court the accused can get an imprisonment, and only if they are convicted. Still they can appeal to the sentence and they can win or lose the appeal,
Fourth, no proceedings can start in our Criminal Courts unless the victims themselves lodge a complaint (in Maltese kwerela, mhux rapport) to the police,
Fifth, to date no one can say that there is any one paedophile priest in Malta. No priest has to date been found guilt by the criminal court.
So to date, only allegations are going around about any paedophile priests in Malta.
Raymond Sammut
Apr 17th 2010, 16:38
"So to date, only allegations are going around about any paedophile priests in Malta."(Joe Zammit)
"Allegations" are not "going around", Mr Zammit, as you are trying to lead readers to believe. You clearly imply that allegations of pedophilia in the Malta RC Church are being made without foundation when you say: "No priest has to date been found guilt by the criminal court."
According to this report by The Times, both civil and criminal justice from the Maltese courts is being sought by ten victims. They have been waiting for seven years to receive closure from the Maltese justice system. No results have been forthcoming from the ongoing police investigations.
You also seem to imply that the reason for this lack of results is because these are allegations that are "going around". Your claim is totally unacceptable. The general public, and not only the victims, have the right to ask from the Maltese authorities, for thorough investigations of alleged crime until closure is achieved. Seven years is too long to wait. One would expect that the Maltese authorities would overcome potential impediments so that closure satisfactory to everyone concerned is provided without further undue delay.
William P Flynn
Apr 17th 2010, 13:44
Apologists like Mr Saliba must get over the mental stumbling block that secular law shouldn't care what an organization's internal policies or laws may or may not be. Secular procedures should be played out in secular courts.
What the church does and doesn't do as an organization is only a side issue and doesn't concern (well, shouldn't concern) the police or anyone outside the church.
Are apologists so blind and deaf that they don't even listen to their pope's clear and unequivocal direction?
"Very carefully chosen words"? Can't Mr Saliba imagine how the pope/Vatican would be crucified all over the world news media if they subsequently try to weasel out of what is a crystal clear directive to report rapist priests to the local law enforcement agencies?
That would be the last straw for millions of Catholics.
The world is sick of "Carefully chosen words"; they cause child rape to happen and multiply.
William P Flynn
Apr 17th 2010, 12:55
Gerry Cowie keeps them coming - repetition, repetition, repetition.
He has been to Malta once too many times and he learned the traditional Maltese "botti".
Well done to Gerry Cowie. Keep them coming. But please, I must ask him no to bother his god (or any other) on my account. I forbid him to pray for me else I might end up in the same place as he in the hereafter. No thanks. It'd be like spending eternity in North Korea speakers booming the glory of Kim Jung Il all day every day.
This argument is about rapist priests and their victims not me. I'm quite pleased with the way this scandal is folding out. Cowie doesn’t sound too happy?
Evarist Saliba
Apr 17th 2010, 12:54
I understand that the delay since 2003 is in the state courts, but people who want to use the victims as cudgels to beat the Catholic Church will go on ignoring this fact. The process within the Church can hardly move forward without jeopardising the one before the civil courts. This does not exempt the church from taking steps to shield minors under its care from the alleged offenders pending the final outcome. I understand that such steps have been taken.
Again, the church does not stop anyone from reporting the alleged abuse to the police. What it does not do is to over-ride the decision of the alleged victim. The Pope's directive to bishops is to "cooperate" with the civil authorities. Very carefully chosen words.
Finally, I find it rather odd when persons who claim that they care for the welfare of victims dismiss the views of these victims when they say something which reflects positively on the church.
Dismissing the reactions of the victims
Raymond Sammut
Apr 17th 2010, 14:08
"The process within the Church can hardly move forward without jeopardising the one before the civil courts."(Evarist Saliba)
Are you sure you mean "civil courts"? If the Malta police are involved, and have been conducting the investigations of child abuse cases within the RC of Malta, I understand that the police would then bring charges (if any) in the Criminal Court, and not in the civil courts.
After some seven years of investigations, which are still ongoing, one would expect that the Malta police would either have results by now to present to the Criminal Court, or else they would be in a position to make a satisfactory statement to the general public and provide closure. Where crime is involved, the issue is no longer a concern only of the victims.
Furthermore, your allegation that there are people "who want to use the victims as cudgels to beat the Catholic Church" clearly needs to be substantiated.
Gerry Cowie
Apr 17th 2010, 12:14
"Butt out of this argument which does not concern you!" Thus we have often been told by W P Flynn who lives in Australia and tells us he has lapsed from the Catholic Church.
Why would he be interested in a situation whereby Roman Catholics (a religion he detests) have abused other Roman Catholics (a religion he detests)?
This whole situation is very sad and nobody in their right mind would say anything other than that the abusers should be brought to justice.
Would W Flynn of Australia like to take his focus of the church which he so dislikes and acknowledge the huge problem of abuse in all secular institutions and even more increasingly in families? No, he would not because it suits his agenda only to attack the Church and its handling of its affairs!
However once again W Flynn of Australia now refers to the possiblity that there might be a god! This is of course merely because it suits him to say so! But it is true! There is a god!
I suggest once again a prayer bouquet for Mr W Flynn. Perhaps we can all pray that he may once day return to the Church!
Raymond Sammut
Apr 17th 2010, 13:02
I can see no reason why you need to get personal with people, Mr Cowie. The following report by the Australian broadcaster ABC shows how a child abuser has been dealt with by a court in Texas, US. The case also shows the dept and seriousness of this type of cases.
http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2010/04/17/2875582.htm?section=justin
In this case, the abuser was investigated on crimes that allegedly had taken place as recently as last year. That's how long it took for the Texan police to bring the case to a conclusion.
It has become demonstrably clear over recent months whereby case after case within the Roman Catholic Church in country after country has followed a pattern. That is, allegations by minors have been kept behind closed doors and away from civil authorities. The result of this behaviour within the RC church has led in many of these cases to justice not being given to the victims and to society.
Here we have not one or two cases, but at least seven cases which have been investigated for some seven years. No results of any kind have been forthcoming, neither from the Malta RC Church nor from the Maltese justice system.
William P Flynn
Apr 17th 2010, 11:49
This isn't about meetings but about action. The pope has spoken - the bishops have to call the police; no choice in the matter.
The usual apologists still haven't got the message. One has been howled down by a priest; and now he is even arguing against a papal direction to involve civil police authorities.
@ Louise Vella
If the Curia and their lawyers have been playing for time it sure blew in their faces. They should have settled years ago; instead, now, they have Malta and the whole world looking at their moves.
There may be a god after all! And, moreover, he isn't acting like ne’s on the side of the Catholic church.
Raymond Sammut
Apr 17th 2010, 11:36
Who is the Church Promoter of Justice if not the pope himself? There are no indications that the pope will meet any of these Maltese who have been enduring "investigations" for seven years with no end in sight. With 26 hours allotted for the pope, there surely will be 10 minutes available to the pontiff to even wash the feet of these men.
Louise Vella
Apr 17th 2010, 10:48
Not everything is right with the civil and criminal justice either. Why should a case like this keep dragging since 2003, for seven years? Are the defence lawyers playing for time? Is the judge or magistrate doing his best to get a quick conclusion?