Church accused of promoting homophobia

C.Zammit

Apr 5th 2010, 19:30

@ Joe Xuereb - You did not get my point no one told you to go underground! Stop trying to picture yourself as normal because your not and that's final! Joseph C.Chetcuti - Just because you pay tax it does not mean you do what you like & break every law you wish.

Joe Xuereb

Mar 30th 2010, 23:20

4) I can never understand why people get so uptight about issues like divorce, homosexuality, and so on. Surely, if THEIR marriage is secure, then they have nothing to worry about. Also, if they make a fuss of these issues which they see as sinful, why are they not vocal about other sings, like heavy drinking, or speeding, or telling lies?
C. I hope you stayed the course. You need not worry because as you say we all choose what suits us,
It is said that familiarity breeds contempt. Familiarity also dispels fear. I was born and lived and brought up as a heterosexual. I am familiar with the setup, no problem. I think that familiarisation with a few gay people would make one realise that no, they do not have green hair and webbed feet and speak with a squeaky voice.
The End. I promise.

Joe Xuereb

Mar 30th 2010, 23:17

3) I didn't have role models of any kind when I was growing up. It is a small miracle that I survived at all. Unfortunately, people who would rather not see me and hear me, still abound. And the church's endorsement of people's - often anything but religious - anitipathy towards gay people does not help matters. The Church must not foment antipathy to put it mildly.
Each generation of homosexuals has to suffer the oppression because there is no positive build-up from previous generations. It is like every new generation is the first one.
One does not convert anybody to homosexuality because one can not. Anymore than someone indifferent can be converted to heterosexuality. That's how it works.
It never ceases to amaze me how the vociferous against homosexuality never stop to consider the fact that they could sire a gay child. What do they do if, no, not if, when, that happens?
This link is about Marie Osmond's son Michael who committed suicide recently. He was gay. I read elsewhere his mother tried to help him. Yes, I bet, as a practising Mormon telling him that Jesus loved him but not his sin. It wasn't enough.
http://www.etonline.com/news/2010/03/84602/

cont./

Joe Xuereb

Mar 30th 2010, 23:12

2) People might, indeed do, ask me, you never married (in Maltese culture, personal questions are socially acceptable). I have to think of an answer, make a joke of it, like 'she hasn't been conceived yet'. It used to irritate me but not anymore. But it is unfair and I resent it on behalf of the new generation of gay people. If course, if I am feeling bolshie I might say something like, I AM married but HE couldn't come with me. And I enjoy the fallout depending on the degree. The fallout is not my problem. You asked an indiscreet question and you got an honest answer. You take things for granted. You shouldn't. For your own sake, you shouldn't.
Because I refuse to be a second-class citizen, that's why. For you to sleep easy?! You have to be joking.
I have been open on these pages for a long time. I like to think that many can take me in their stride without flinching. Good. I also hope that gay youngsers may come across my comments and say, 'gosh, he is openly honest and the world is still spinning'.
cont./

Joe Xuereb

Mar 30th 2010, 23:08

1) C.Zammit, if you re-read my comments you'll see I am not overly keen on marriage, gay or otherwise. Likewise, with adoptions. About gays doing what they like. You make it sound like only gays do what they like. Look around you. Non-gay people doing what they like far outnumber gays and have greater impact. I should concern myself with that crowd if I were you (if you are really concerned about marriage and religion). But then again, maybe your claim not to hate gays is not entirely honest. Maybe there is something about homosexuality that irks you. It is your responsibility to sort this out but expecting homosexual people to go underground and hide so you can rest easy is not an option. Not even negotiable. I have come too far to return underground and so renege on what I have achieved. Came too far, my morals stronger than ever and expecting no heavenly rewards for my efforts.
You are right C. Gays in Malta have a better deal than in Iran or Saudi Arabia. But there is oppression nevertheless which you wouldn't be aware of. To give you an example:
cont./

Joseph Carmel Chetcuti

Mar 27th 2010, 22:54

@ V Zammit. I was not aware that in Malta only heterosexuals pay taxes. What is ruining the world are people like V Zammit. It is a pity we cannot choose our fellow citizens. As for abortion, let me say that in the case of V Zammit it should be retrospective.

C.Zammit

Mar 26th 2010, 17:39

@ Joe Xuereb - To start off with I do not hate Gays. Yes I speak angry about you sometimes. The reason I get angry is that most of the times you homosexuals speak as if you are living in a oppressed country here in Malta. 1)There is no Hate Crime in Malta against Gays and lets hope and pray there will never be against anyone!2) You are free to have a boyfriend live with him and live your life. I don't care up to you! But come on to get married and adopt kids it's taking it a bit too far now! Marriage is no joke or fairy tale. Don't think that I am only against Gays but also oppose the goverment for giving money from our taxes to irresponsable single mothers and also I am not in favor of devorce, abortion. These new ideas are ruining the world. You can't live a perfect life no one is perfect but to try to create babylon on this planet is not right. For you kollox ok and everyone does what ever he/she likes. World with no LAWS! NO WAY!!laws will always be there!

Joe Xuereb

Mar 26th 2010, 16:13

@ Mr(?)/Ms(?) Zammit. Why the angry tirade my dear? I am a homosexual. A gentle man. I would never harm you. Your institution is strong, sanctioned by church and state. And me, just a mere mortal living out his life with dignity and in peace. You choose marriage - if that is how you see it - and I do not. What exactly is the big deal that makes you get so hot under the collar. Is it worth it? If you are going to get all hot and bothered about outside influences undermining marriage, why not shift your attention from gay people wanting marriage (sic) and think some more about the much larger numbers of marriages that are contracted for convenience (residence rights, inheritance, cover-ups for whatever reason). Now these are marriages that undermine the authority and sanctity of the Institution as you see it. Bark up the right tree for a change. Go on! I dare you.

C.Zammit

Mar 26th 2010, 12:58

COMES THIS SUBJECT ABOUT HOMOSEXUALS AND WRITING IN THE BLOGS YOU HAVE TO FIND MR GREAT , HOMOSEXUAL DEFENDER .............................. JOE XUEREB...::)))))))) . I am not insecure. Why just because I have a different opinion from you? Mr... Why because you try and deny God to make your self & feel better. Like it or not yes Children are to be brought up by a man and a woman. Of course the church condems homosexuality! What do you expect it to do clapp thier hand or ours and say ohhhhhhhhhh howw sweeeet Jack & Peter are getting married uhhhh now they can have a kid too woooooooowwwwwwwww to be equal even claire & Jane can get married and have kids two. ohhh yesss now parents of the same sex!! DISGUSTING.

Joe Xuereb

Mar 26th 2010, 12:38

Stop projecting your insecurities onto homosexuals, etc. You know who you are.
It's been variously implied here that a child raised by homosexuals risks turning out homosexual him/herself. The implication there being that to turn out homosexual is undesirable. What?!
I have noticed people who are anything but religious. Yet - wait for it - they feel justified in bashing homosexuals because, wonder of wonders, 'even the Church condemns it'. Please don't make me spoon-feed. It is tedious. And what I mean is crystal clear.
And gays. Please stop this nonsense about adopting children. Nature intended heterosexuals to procreate. And they are doing a jolly good job of it, aren't they?! Nature intended homosexuals to live a dignified life without the constrains made by the State (with more than a little connivance by the Church), normally called a family, a necessary evil. Nature knows what it's doing. Beyond the mechanisms, it washes its hands.* From then on it's the business of Governments (and Canaa) to shore up the shambles. Thank Nature you do not have to get embroiled in any of this unworkable pastiche.
* Life, ie one's inner-self, is a solo journey anyway . Anybody saying otherwise is lying.

C.Zammit

Mar 26th 2010, 09:38

@ Cyrus Engerer - A family is a man & a woman and then they have kids!That is how God created us.It's Nature.Mr.Engerer can a man have sex with a man and have kids?No they can't because it is against nature.No it should not be a crime if one speaks against homosexuality.The Bishop did not order people to beat you up or hurt you.,Infact the church is against that!Lots of fancy words created by people homophobia and so on.... come on! Stop this rubbish.I will strongly oppose you homosexuals getting married & also you adopting kids. Your sexual acts are not normal! So now you want no one to oppose you?Like you can speak in favor of homosexuality others have the right to speak against.It's called democracy. Speaking of democracy it's the majority that counts and the rest (Minority) have to obey what the majority wants! Yes Malta is a catholic majority like it or not.No matter how much you try your not going to change that! If you don't like it go to the Netherlands,or Denmark , Sweden and so on. One of these so called countries!

Joe Xuereb

Mar 26th 2010, 00:53

@ Christine Galea. quote: 'the religious dimension of sacramental marriage'. Please tell us you are not speaking specifically, and solely, of the sacramental marriage as understood by the RC Church.

Joseph Carmel Chetcuti

Mar 25th 2010, 21:33

Some comment has been about what I have referred to in the book as a "homosexual voice". A homosexual voice may and may not have anything to do with what many regard as the stereotypical camp voice. But that is not to deny that some gay men have a camp and stereotypical voice. Incidentally I did not invent the term "homosexual voice". There has been many studies done in this area.

Joseph Carmel Chetcuti

Mar 25th 2010, 21:30

@Joseph Calleja First and foremost I have no idea who you are and I am not interested in your sexuality. You miss the point as many do. People have a right to privacy. But there are limits to privacy. No one is entitled to "privacy" in a public place. What is so damn wrong about saying someone is gay or lesbian any way? Only bigots think gay men and lesbians should be invisible. And when I say bigots I include some gay men and lesbians who do not have the stamina to fight for their rights and let others do the work. Many of the men and women I mentiond in the book made enormous contributions to Maltese society. All I am saying is that those contributions were made by gay men and lesbians. What is so wrong in that? It is the kind of study taking place all over the world in very reputable universities. Our precious university has yet to catch up. Stop being insular and precious, my dear. There are far too many prescious people in this little island that thinks of itself it as part of Europe. The only question is WHICH PART?

Joe Xuereb

Mar 25th 2010, 17:28

Just in case I did not make myself absolutely clear, human sexuality is endlessly fascinating. BECAUSE, it is not black and white. It is a million shades of grey with so much overlapping you wouldn't believe it. I KNOW.
To the bright spark somewhere below who mentions the gay men with squeaky voices, etc. Convenient stereotyping. If you believe 'you can always tell a homosexual by his/her blah blah blah - very convenient. Because then you can give them a wide berth and not cringe. But cringe you could or should. Why? Because gay people are all around you and 95% do not fit the stereotypical box. If only the stuff of life could be neatly put in separate boxes and tied securely with a pretty ribbon. Well, life isn't like that. Get over it!
To the other clever clogs who suggested all gays should be banished? exiled? to an island. Well, there are so many of us here that it would be more practical for us to go nowhere. Since you find us so disquieting, why don't YOU leave. Problem solved. Except that you might have to leave behind a favourite son/nephew/confessor/cousin/father/dentist....wife or husband even..... you get my point.

Zachary Stewart

Mar 25th 2010, 17:06

The fact that the Catholic Church (especially agents like Mario Grech) promotes intolerance towards gays and lesbians is indisputable. The REAL issue is whether or not our tax-funded state will continue to promote Catholicism as our official religion in light of this discrimination. There is an incongruity between the claim that Malta is a modern pluralist democracy and the claim that Malta is a Catholic state. We can have one or the other, but we can't have both. What will it be, 21st Century Democracy or Catholic theocracy?

Christine Galea

Mar 25th 2010, 11:58

Part 2
Yet one thing remains certain – the sound and proper education of children in schools on family relationships. I agree with Philip Said (Times of Malta, 23/3/10) who states that the education of children in the traditional values of commitment, honesty, responsibility and sharing is the best way to promote the beauty of marriage and family life. These priorities have a foundation which are best complemented and highlighted by the religious dimension of sacramental marriage. Nonetheless, whether marriage is enacted civilly or in a religious way, preparation for those who intend to embrace marriage as a vocation is indispensable.

“Mr Azzopardi blamed this on schools for continuously presenting the stereotypical family with a man, a woman, a boy and a girl”.

In a small island like Malta, which has a strong Catholic tradition, why shouldn’t schools present such a picture? The implantation of modern values should not necessarily lead to the complete uprooting of Catholic traditional ones, but should manage to survive and co-exist with them.

Christine Galea

Mar 25th 2010, 11:57

Part 1

Although sociologically, the traditional or model family may be defined as an institutional arrangement, in which two people of the opposite gender live together in one household, together with their offspring or legally adopted children, sociology in its definition of the family does not confine itself to the institutional form of the family. Rather it defines the family as a social group displaying all the features of a primary social group, albeit a special social group. Whether defined as an institution or a social group, the family is seen to be functional for both society and the individual; indeed, functional theorists such as Murdoch tend to point to the universality of the family to stress the fact that it is indispensable both for the individual himself and for society.

Recent trends about marriage and the family are being used to test this assertion, making its definition problematic and one cannot deny the tension between the traditional concept of the family and the modern conception of it.

Joe Xuereb

Mar 25th 2010, 11:49

2) I can never understand why gay people want civic rituals, adoption rights. All this smacks of wanting to ape the heterosexual institution that is marriage. Why waste so much mental energy clamouring for something that is flawed at best.
Society and market forces are about pressure on gays and straights. The pressure on gays to look like this, have that is insidious (as it is for straight). If people learned to see through this, they might be happier in their respective roles. Then, and only then, homosexuals will find a better role for themselves and hanker less for what they think 'might have been'. It is possible to be gay and a whole person. Accepting pressure as the norm will do nobody any favours.
The problem with all this negativity around the matter is that every generation of homosexuals has to endure the same hardship and unfairness like they were the first ever. This is ridiculous. If Governments are worried about men not making children, society has to look closer at the people who can make children but don't/won't/or irresponsiblly do. Please, don't scapegoat homosexuals. They don't make war. They don't make babies. They mind their own business.

Joe E Galea

Mar 25th 2010, 11:47

@Victor Vella: Since when being Maltese automatically makes you Catholic. Speaking for myself I have renounced being Catholic long time ago and I am Maltese. Catholicism was imposed on me by my parents. When I realised that the Catholic Religion is based on hatred and negativity and made of people like you and like the homophobes posting in here, and like the Bishops, etc, I detached myself from this shady organisation. However, I still firmly believe in God as I believe that He loves all of us ALL....not like your church brainwashes you to believe.

Moreover, gay people are taxpayers and we have the right to have our rights recognised by the state. We don't give a hoot about the church.

Go and rejoice with your church which will be wasting 750,000Eur to host (luckily) a short visit by the pope who will come here to tell us that homosexuality is an abberration and other bla bla bla.

Joe Xuereb

Mar 25th 2010, 11:46

1) To view people as being those, the majority, who are heterosexual, solidly so, and some, the straggling rest, being homosexual, equally solidly so. This is called treating gay people as an entirely separate nexus/connection. Wrong!!! This is perceiving people like mechanised robots, the straights and the gays. But people are not robots. For sure most people seem to behave heterosexually. But a lot is going on underneath. Much is repressed if nothing else because of society's condemnatory stance on the matter. The macho culture, which short-changes heterosexual men something terrible. And the Church chips in.
I find it amazing that people who should know better come up with theories about the causation of homosexuality. Let it rest. Homosexuals are a fact of life, always have been. They just don't have children. Clever to realise two men cannot produce progeny. Or two women. Big deal. That said, marrying is one way - with dire consequences I should add - of concealing one's true self. Very bad but society pushes one to this. More tragic is the late developer, married with children and one day, he/she wakes up....and.... You think it doesn't happen? I've got news for you.
cont./

Cyrus Engerer

Mar 25th 2010, 11:38

@ A. Gauci Cunningham

There have definately been internal reactions form my end and yesterday also public ones during the debate. Consult the people present from LGBT Labour as well as today's orrizont article.

Joe E Galea

Mar 25th 2010, 11:37

@all Catholic saintly bloggers: What is the problem with you ppl? Why do you feel so threathened by homosexuality? Why do you take out all your hatred and anger on homosexuals? Your religion preaches to love your neighbour...as long as s/he is straight....it seems. MMM I think if Jesus would read your comments would regret heavily for being crucified to save you.

@ Cyrus Engerer: Keep it up Cyrus and defend what you believe in!! The only problem you have is that you support a party who is anti-gay too.

@Clint Muscat: Who do you think you are "in-natura taghna"...are you God's gift to earth by any chance?

@all: Mela li jkollna single parent li jkollha 5 tfal minn 3 irgiel differenti, dik ok ghax straight. Li jkollok genituri irresponsabbli li jimmaltrattaw it-tfal, dawk ok ghax str8. Li jkollna genituri str8 jabbuzaw it-tfal taghhom, dawk ok, ghax str8. Ara veru imsieken u ta' min jithassarkom dawk kollha li tahsbu li ghax il-genituri huma 2 straight ghandhom dritt divin, ma jimpurtax x'jaghmlu bit-tfal, l-aqwa li dawk NORMALI. Morru saqqu l-hass!!

A.Gauci Cunningham

Mar 25th 2010, 10:49

@Cyrus---You militate (as is your right ) within a party which when push came to shove signed petitions not to have homophobia discussed (let alone made illegal) in the European Parliament. PN MEPs continually stood by their PPE and voted against civil patrnerships and abstained on various reports condemning Homophobia. You can support the PN for its economic policies, you can support the PN for its deliverance of promises (yeah right!!) you can support the PN because you think Labour's too low for your tastes but you can't possibly support the PN's present and past political positions taken on gay issues. ON the other hand Dr.Joseph Muscat has been the only leader in post 1987 politics to declare himself against homophobia and declared that in his "movement there is no place for homophobia". Funnily enough I can't even remember a reaction coming from you .....but then why am I surprised?? Some gay people choose what to hear and when to hear it because like the rest of the country Party comes first, second, third and fourth and to hell with justice, equality and gay rights.

Cyrus Engerer

Mar 25th 2010, 10:42

@ victor Vella

Mr. Vella,

It is wrong to assume that because one is of Maltese nationality, he/she must be a member of the Roman Catholic Church.

R Grima

Mar 25th 2010, 09:45

Mr Muscat.if you are going to talk about nature in the raw...marriage is a man made institution and there is nothing in nature that says a couple should/must stay to gether forever..they simply get together to procreate...when talking about natural choice marriage is as far away from nature as is possible to be. Who programmed you in believing that marriage is natural?

JOe VELLa

Mar 25th 2010, 09:35

How arrogant can one get. So we have the one and old person who read the full version of the Gospel according to St. Mark. Which St. Mark the one that Peter refer as his son?
Is M. Chetcuti referring to Peter the Magician who St. Peter called him the leader of a sect not of God's, his followers in Babylon Rome (quoting St. Peter) did a lot of writing.
I suggest M. Chetcuti to read the Confessions of St. Augustine and the Book of Love by Doroty Scallan.
For his record I do read this material, unfortunately I found that each author phrase the same writing as it suit him even to this day.

Clint Muscat

Mar 25th 2010, 09:08

nacceta li jezistu gays, li jghixu flimkien, li ghal-istat ikunu rikonoxxuti bhala partners..... izda jekk dik tista issejhilha familja, dik hija familja differenti minn familja normali!!!!!

Familja normali ghal logika forsi injoranta ta mohhi hija, ir-ragel jghix mal-mara, biex ikollhom it-tfal...tidher cara wisq aktar fil partijiet genetali taghna!! l-evoluzzjoni taghna ghamlitna kapaci nirriproducu BISSSS billi ir-ragel jitfa iz-zerriegha f'tal mara!!

Ghalhekk QATTTT biologikament (mhux indahhal religjon) ma jista jkollu sinifikat li taccetta ragel ma ragel!! dik hija in natura taghnaa!!

u aqtawha biz-zikk ta drittijiet li taghjjtu bihom!! Ghax l-ebda persuna gay jew mhix ma ghanda dritt li jkollha it-tfal!! Izda huwa biss id-dmir ta koppja li TIPPROVA li jkollha it-tfal.

Qed nghixu f'dinja ta egoisti artificjali!!! You have no rights for children unless you do it the natural way!!!

X tistghu taghmlu aktar min hekk huwa artificjali!!!

I Cassar

Mar 25th 2010, 08:17

“It should be a crime to speak against a minority” this is a very sensible statement. I can't see why all this fuss. Many people, particularly the ones in the church, are reacting as if being called gay by gay people is an offense. I am sure no gay person would call another person so in a derogatory way. The problem is that most people still think it is offensive to be called gay and that is the real misfortune of all this case.

Dolers Cristina for one could have easily avoided her pathetic comment at a Hamrun school yesterday. And so could have the arch-priest of Xaghra during the 11.00 am mass last Sunday. All man are born equal remember, but as as the pigs of Animal Farm say, “some animals are more equal then others”.

JOe VELLa

Mar 25th 2010, 06:47

What is this anti Roman Catholic attack both open and or hidden by the same champions of freedom, some with authority to monopolize opinion?
I do not care what sex tendency one has, it is not my business, it is the law, after all most of the time it is the way one is created I dare add, to me natures way of experimenting!
However when I think of Iran that these people are hanged, in Saudi they are not treated any better, not to mention the Far East.
Thank Goodness we were brought up to be tolerant, few years back even in Germany they were gassed.
Please let us all thank the Good Lord for all his goodness around us, the fact, waking up every morning we take it for granted, a lot do not, let us try and find something else to make an issue of so as we built enough interest to sell a book or make it a three hour show on our local TV.

M. Chetcuti

Mar 25th 2010, 06:46

Anyone ever read the FULL version of the Gospel of St Mark as opposed to the EDITED version offered by the Church. Plenty of truth and food for thought there,but then,I don't suppose many even know of it, let alone have read it. The truth is out there, shocking as it may be,all you have to do is search for it. In my opinion,my name sake didn't go far enough in exposing the hypocrisy.There's much more he could have said in his book.

Andrew Paris

Mar 25th 2010, 03:03

Promoting the wrongs of homophobia, the only way for the church to mask its problem with the same situations among the priests.

G.Micallef

Mar 25th 2010, 00:27

@Joseph Carmel Chetcuti

Your line of thought is a sheer attack on Jesus Christ and His Church. Divine Justice will prevail!

Franco Farrugia

Mar 25th 2010, 00:09

@ George Cremona: indeed? It's a real pity, then, that Churchmen do not follow the teachings of Jesus Christ. If that had been the case, the Catholic Church would not bee in this mire and in this pitiful state in this day and age.

Jon Agius

Mar 24th 2010, 23:56

gay couples adopting children........... what a shame to democracy. Do gay couples need to bring children into this for the sake to justify that they are just a normal couple like a man and a woman together. This is the same for marriages. Do gay couples really need marriages to recognise that they are a normal couple like a straight couple???? This is hilarious and an abuse of democracy brought in liberal countries for votes, propoganda etc etc. If you are a gay couple, fine, do what you want but don't touch on other issues that have nothing to do with a gay couple. There is no need to touch on conservative issues. Only education should be improved and the conscience of people. I don't have problems with gay couples, but with marriages and adopting........ come on.

As for this chap who said that San Gprg was gay.... it seems that the Dan Brown effect is being copied by many writers. Just write some controversy on something that the media is interested in and you get free advertising with people becoming more intrested in this controversy, therefore buying the book.

jcamilleri

Mar 24th 2010, 22:43

Can Mr Peppi Azzopardi, M'Anne Borg Cunen, Cyrus Engerer or Dr J Chetcuti tell us how natural it is for a gay/lesbian couple to beget children. Is not the family a unit to procreate life instituted by God himself? Let us stop playing at God and learn how to keep our place. Let us be thankful to our Creator and bow our heads infront of Him. We pretend to teach God how to do things right. In Maltese we say Trid tghallem 'l ommok tbennen. As for our saints: please stop the insults. Insulting them is insulting us.

M. Peplow

Mar 24th 2010, 22:18

Us Gay people are not expecting to get married in church. But we r asking for civil partnership within the goverment . After all we r tax payers like any other idividual and because we r a minority we can't have this right. For the guy who said we should go and live in an island of our own. I think he should go on an island on his own , because he is so ignorant that he can't except or tolerate people like us , how ever whatever i do in my bedroom its nobodies business. But i live with my partner like a family so we should have the same rights like any family. The church should promote love not hatred . Irrelevant whether its male female , Male male , Female female. AS long as its love. Well done cyrus.

J.Xuereb

Mar 24th 2010, 21:48

@ victor vella. Your words seem to be egoistic. You are telling Gays to go live on an island away from the world as it is. Don't you think that you are discriminating? This world is for everyone, whether minorities or majorities. there is no privileged in the eyes of God. I think it is not right to send gays live on an island just because you are part of the majority who is living comfortably in the way society is. We have to learn how to accept others and let them live in our society even if we are different from them. This is what we call open mindedness in the year 2010, if you know what it means!!

George Cremona

Mar 24th 2010, 21:30

It is wrong or to be more prudent,it is incorrect to imply that the Gozo Bishop or the Catholic church condemns the gays or any other person, not even the sinners. First of all the Catholic Church was not given that right by its Founder that is Jesus Christ. The Catholic Church condemns the sin not the sinner. Jesus Christ himself did not judge or condemn the prostitute but showed her the right way to follow, advised her to repent and not to sin anymore. Jesus Christ endowed his disciples, the clergy, with the power to absolve repenters from their sins but did not empower them to judge or condemn anyone.
On the other hand the Catholic Church through its spiritual leaders is duty bound to show and to teach what is wrong and what is right but not who is wrong or right. And this the Church will continue to do irrespective of whether we agree or not, whether it suites us or not, whether we believe or not. The Church will persist on her teachings because her teachings were not revealed to her by the common man but by our Lord Jesus Christ himself.

Joseph Carmel Chetcuti

Mar 24th 2010, 21:24

I was unable to be with you today because I was presenting a copy of the book to the Hon Dr Louis Galea.However, good on you Cyrus for taking a stand. As for outing people, let me say this. All deceased persons mentioned in the book (except for a few) were known all over Malta for what they were - homosexual. They made important contributions to Maltese public life and should be so recognised. I disagree with the submission that they never came out. They came out within the limitations of the society in which they lived and as that society understood "coming out". It is unreasonable to expect them to have come out as we understand the term today. My point is that if gay men and lesbians are entitled to any sort of dignity then that dignity should include our right to rediscover our history. Gay and lesbian history is primarily our property, not the exclusive property of straight society which ignores our sexual oientation, and certainly not the property of family members from whom most gay men and lesbians hide their sexuality. The days of our invisibility are over. Get over it!

Marton Saliba

Mar 24th 2010, 21:11

"Church accused of promoting homophobia"

Ah, the truth will prevail.And true will with it as well.

victor vella

Mar 24th 2010, 21:05

Cyrus,
you have a right to be gay, your rigt is protected under the constitution and the laws of Malta and U.N Human Rights,am I right?
But my dear friend, while not in any way condoning you for being gay, I tell you this.You are a member of an organisation called the Roman Catholic Church, a church we have been taught to believe was set up by Christ himself, if you do not agree with the teaching of the church, leave and join a church (if you must) which allows gay marriages.If you expect the world to change simply because a minority of people want to change and twist society because of their leanings and feelings then I am sorry to suggest this but why dont you all gay people go find an island and set up a community there and live the life you want to.Please do not try to change the world.

JJ Creg

Mar 24th 2010, 20:56

What does one expect from the criticism of a priest? They have to stick by the Book for such instance.

Whether homo or lesbian, they are human beings too (God's children) and they should not be discriminated or outcast them from the society. To incite hatred against them is equally a sin. Cast the first stone then!

N.Lawrence

Mar 24th 2010, 20:27

Typical church hypocracy where in it's own history , three of it's own popes were overt and open homosexuals

Charles Spiteri

Mar 24th 2010, 20:02

Dan irid idahhak nahseb...skond Dr.Chetcuti li tkun omosesswali hiha marda ghax hu semma s-sintomi tal-'marda'; iccaqlaq idejk, vuci irqiqa qisa ta' mara, ikun ma rgiel, ma jbusx saqajn in-nisa u nsomma il-bqija...kummenti ta xenofobija u r-Razzizmu saru min Chetcuti li barra li attakka lill-Knisja Kattolika u insulta l-San Pawl u l-San Gorg Preca bla l-icken prova, beda jikkritika ukoll bi bniedem gay ghax ihaddan u jghix il-fidi Kattolika...dan izzejjed issa. Il-Knisja tikkundana d-dnub u mhux il-persuna, u ghalhekk hija gidba sfaccata li dan jigi jghid li l-Knisja tipriedka xenofobija...fil-verita l-Knisja tghallem ir-rispett u l-imhabba ta dawn il-persuni waqt li tghid li relazzjoni intima bejnithom hija hazina.

Hija, iwa, nuqqas ta rispett lejn il-verita li tghid li San Gorg Preca kien omosesswali, mhux ghax b'daqshekk ikun gara xi haga imma l-verita ghanda tinghata sew. Mhux sew li dan il-proxxmu jattakka ic-celibat tas-soci tal-Muzew, nisa u rgiel li jaghtu hajjithom ghax-xandir tal-kelma. Sa fra tant, din il-famuza kalamita li semma Chectuti lilu ma tantx gibditu ghax telaq mill-Muzew li lanqas idea tieghu ma ghandu, ghax ma sabx min ipaxxi s-sensi tieghu. Missu jisthi...biex jirrispetawk trid tirrispetta lill-ohrajn l-ewwel.

F'isem il-poplu Malti nsellem lill-membri tal-Museum u nirringrazzjwom ta dak li jaghmlu ma uliedna. Grazzi.

adrian aquilina

Mar 24th 2010, 19:42

mr sciberras is wrong..homosexual tendancies are throughout nature not just bthe human animal..it is the way some people are born.less homosexual people commit crimes of abuse against children then hetrosexuals..every body should have the same rights and without religion everybody would..religion is a bunch of fairy tales that are inconsistant with reality and if you read,especially the god delusion by richard dawkins you can read the proof that religion is a delusion..everything is an opinion and you cant have laws or stop anyone doing something because your opinion is differant..tolerance is important and religion and to an extent mr sciberras is not tolerant..im not gay but doesnt mean i should have more rights..many many more man and woman couples abuse,kill kids then gays ever have.church is there to be ignored if common sense,peace and tolerance is what you want

Albert Farrugia

Mar 24th 2010, 18:57

@Cyrus Engerer
By the way, I suppose you know that homosexuality was not decriminalised by a supernatural act...but by means of a law passed through the Maltese parliament guess by whom....

v mercieca

Mar 24th 2010, 18:53

Gays should not be discriminated. Also gays should not expect that they get what they ask for each and every time, and if they do not get it they accuse the authorities they are being discriminated.

If a gay couple can prove that if they have a relationship in a normal natural way between them and that there were gay couples who had a relation and managed to produce children, then I would give them the same rights as hertosexual couples.

If nature did not intend that homosexual couples have children, why should they expect the authorities to permit it.

Charles J. Buttigieg

Mar 24th 2010, 18:47

A Child deserves the combined love and affection of a mother and father, a male and a female not of two fathers or two mothers.

M Cassar

Mar 24th 2010, 18:42

Daniel Vella most of the hetero children also end up like their fathers, mothers. Hence if the father beats his wife there is a strong chance he will end up the same etc. There are always exceptions to the rule ofcourse but the point is, we are very much influenced by how our parents are and act, this is shown in my argument that..if the parents are homosexuals the children will be open to gay relationships (by the website's own admission statistics prove this) and therefore prone to become gay also. The saying like father like son is not always the case but on many occasions it happens. By their own admission they are admitting that a child brought up by homosexuals will be more open to a gay relationship, perhaps he would not have been born homosexual but could become gay later in life. Remember there are also bisexuals and heteros who decide to try their same sex. This is what I'm pointing out. The risk is too big for the children and selfishness to adopt should not be allowed to the detriment of the children.

Jason Borg

Mar 24th 2010, 18:32

Is-Sur Azzopardi ghandu jkun jaf li familja hi dik li hi u ma noqoghdux ingebbduha qisha chewing gum.

Charles J. Buttigieg

Mar 24th 2010, 18:22

Different sexual orientations are something which nature provides. It is present also in birds, animals and fish and I have no difficulty to accept that. What I refuse to accept is the term marriage between members of the same sex and adoption of children. You may call it union, partnership or whatever but marriage is an exclusive term for a contracted union between a man and a woman with the aim of procreating children. Likewise the only natural way to raise children is by a man and a woman’s biological parentage or acting as parents.

I don’t access a person on their sexual orientation and I give my respect to all those who deserve it but I stand by my firm believe that there are some duties and responsibilities restricted to women, other restricted to men and parentage strictly restricted to a man and a woman.

A child has to be nurtured in a heterosexual environment otherwise they would grow up in a confused state. If the child’s sexual orientation is not heterosexual then they are free to live the life as dictated by their nature or practice celibacy as all different Christian denominations expect.

MSciberras

Mar 24th 2010, 18:02

QUOTE Mr Azzopardi blamed this on schools for continuously presenting the stereotypical family with a man, a woman, a boy and a girl UNQUOTE

I am all for tolerance but let us get real. A stereotypical family with a man, a woman, a boy and a girl is not a stereotypical family, it is a natural family where the man and the woman have had sex to create a family. And I draw the line at gay couples being placed on the same pecking order as so many childless hetero couples desperate to adopt. This has nothing to do with tolerance. People one of whose parents died when young know the importance of having a woman for a mother and a man for a father, and there are lots of studies out there showing this, such as the positive effects a healthy mother-son or father-daughter relationship has in future sexual and interpersonal relationships. Biologically, this is how we are engineered, and for reasons that go beyond our own wishes but are the result of our own evolution as human beings. This is just another cry from the postwar ME, ME, ME generations, where percieved rights come before any other considerations.

Cyrus Engerer

Mar 24th 2010, 18:02

In the meantime, referring to public persons that were outed by Joseph C. Chetcuti's bbook, I said that it was difficult for people living in those times to come out since it was still a crime in Malta to be gay. The question I posed was, what would have happened should it have not been a crime?

Cyrus Engerer

Mar 24th 2010, 17:48

Just a small note to mention that whilst most of the discussion (over an hour and a half), focused on Human Rights (LGBT Rights) and what should be for these to progress in our country and thus decrease discrimination and bring about equality, the discussion on the church and the way it treats this issue were only brought about in the last five minutes.

Yes, I do believe that the way the church speaks about the LGBT community and condemns LGBT people, means that poeple are given a reason to be homphobic and a sense of hatred to wards the LGBT minroty is incited. Hatred against a minority (such as in the case of a race etc.) is seen as a crime...I mentioned during the debate that no one should incite hatred towards any minority.

It is important, in the meantime, to focus on rights and to achieve equality for all. LGBT families are different fmailies to the traditional ones, however it is the same love that is shared.

M Cassar

Mar 24th 2010, 17:40

While I agree that gays should not be discriminated against and treated equally, I do not agree that they should be allowed to adopt children. My reason being that according to a gay conscience website itself malta-exposed a child brought up by a gay couple would be more open to a gay relationship, thus we would be inadvertedly promoting these children to have the same leanings as their parents apart from all the embarassment these children will have to endure during childhood whenever they have to write an essay about their parents. I stand to be corrected.