Ornis Committee urged by hunters not to be influenced by media reports

Sylvana Zarb Darmanin

Mar 4th 2010, 18:44

Paul Barrett, I can NEVER accept that an ex-hunter comments the way you have been commenting. Sorry, Sir, but you have not convinced me! Meanwhile, after all the doubts you tried to shed on the matter, you have the ORNIS decision to further confirm that what you were stating was incorrect!

Johnny Xerri

Mar 4th 2010, 06:15

@ Paul Debono.......and nostra adamus has spoken again.

Enough with what you suspect with what you desire and live up to facts.


The governmnet has sought legal advice from the Attorny General, adive from the commision and studied facts.

FKNK has conducted a scientific and legal study before presenting its proposals.

BLM has just resorted to the usual ban ban ban song.

FKNK were more convincing and, politically and legally correct.

Common sense prevailed. Just accept hard facts, and let hunters enjoy for 3 weeks what most EU hunters enjoy all year round

MARK MIFSUD BONNICI

Mar 3rd 2010, 19:58

Paul Barrett
Can yo read English?

"to permit, under strictly supervised conditions and on a selective basis, the capture, keeping or other judicious use of certain birds in small numbers."

Andrew Gatt

Mar 3rd 2010, 19:20

@ the 2 Pauls.............do you honestly think that the Government would even CONSIDER opening the Spring Hunting season unless it has every confidence that it can apply a derogation fully in line with the Birds Directive?

Paul Barrett.....the UK applies HUNDREDS of derogations year after year (apologies if you're not from the UK) and shoots 365/24/7. Been there, done that...SPRING, summer, autumn, winter.

Paul Debono.....you say you're not a legal person but you are commenting as though you're a one-man judge and jury! The AG handled Malta's case. So did FACEand FKNK lawyers. Are you implying that all these experts are wrong? Come on man. The verdict is crystal clear - if only you have eyes to see and the intelligence to be objective! FORGET ALL BIRDLIFE'S SCAREMONGERING ON THIS ISSUE. Malta lost the battle of incorrect derogations BUT won the war to open limited and controlled Spring Hunting for JUST 2 species of game birds that are present in negligible numbers in the Autumn season.

M. Cardona

Mar 3rd 2010, 19:14

@ Mr Paul Barrett

I have already redressed your repeated question as to hunting derogations vis a vis Article 9 of the EU Birds Directive.

Once more, read before you think and to think before your speak or write! Apparently several earlier advises were to no avail.....in Maltese we say il-hmar taqtaghlu denbu hmar jibqa which literally translates into....if you cut a donkey's tail it will still remain a donkey!

Once more let me reiterate for your better judgement, ECJ in another case submitted by the French Ligue pour la protection des oiseau had decreed that hunting constitutes judicious use!

Regards

Paul Barrett

Mar 3rd 2010, 18:45

@ Sylvana Zarb Darmanin

My only agenda is to avoid us being placed in the embarrassing position of being taken back to Court and facing unknown Court Costs and potential sanctions/fines.

I have been a hunter although I do not currently practice as such and therefore have no particular axe to grind and no hidden agenda. I do understand and appreciate the "thrill" of hunting and indeed shooting various weapons and marksmanship has played a fairly prominent part in my life. All I suggest is that we keep within the rules and not step over the line unless we are absolutely sure of what we are doing.

Sylvana Zarb Darmanin

Mar 3rd 2010, 18:44

Paul Debono, if, as you say, you are not a legal person, how come you expect to give a legal interpretation?! The Attorney General is answerable to the Maltese Government and does not make public announcements. It is the Maltese Government which has declared in Parliament that the Spring Hunting Season will be opened, obviously after advice given to him by the Attorney General.

As for the European Commission, I refer you to a report by this same newspaper wherein the EU confirmed that a Spring Hunting Season is possible for Malta.

The ORNIS committee is not empowered to allow the Spring Hunting Season. Its power is to make recommendations to the Government.

It has also been reported in this newspaper that the Government was in consultation with the EU regarding the derogation.

Sir, seeing that your comments were all non-factual, how can you expect us to believe what you write? Indeed, the sour pill is proving to be too sour to swallow!!

Paul Debono

Mar 3rd 2010, 18:13

I am not a legal person but as far as I am aware the Attorney General has not made public announcement on spring hunting.

Neither has the European Commission given the go ahead for any spring hunting season. That is not their remit. Only the Maltese Government can open the spring hunting season.

However what I suspect will happen is that the ORNIS committee will allow a limited duration spring hunting season with a small kill limit on birds which will not satisfy the FNKN.

The EU will of course react to this unilateral derogation and institute proceeding against Malta….

Sylvana Zarb Darmanin

Mar 3rd 2010, 18:06

Paul Barrett, the European Commission itself has declared that a Spring Hunting Season is possible for Malta. Are you saying that the EU cannot interpret Article 9? How can you ever expect us readers to believe you when you state that you are neutral?!

Sylvana Zarb Darmanin

Mar 3rd 2010, 17:41

Paul Debono, are you a legal person? More than that, do you consider your expertise as being above that of the Attorney General, other Maltese lawyers and the European Commission itself?!

Paul Barrett

Mar 3rd 2010, 17:38

@ A.Damato

Where in Article 9 does it say that you can derogate for the purpose of Hunting for Sport?

Article 9

1. Member States may derogate from the provisions of Articles 5, 6, 7 and 8, where there is no other satisfactory solution, for the following reasons:

(a) - in the interests of public health and safety,

- in the interests of air safety,

- to prevent serious damage to crops, livestock, forests, fisheries and water,

- for the protection of flora and fauna;

(b) for the purposes of research and teaching, of re-population, of re-introduction and for the breeding necessary for these purposes;

(c) to permit, under strictly supervised conditions and on a selective basis, the capture, keeping or other judicious use of certain birds in small numbers.

Again it is grasping at straws to hang in on the word "judicious" - Ask any farmer if it is judicious to eat his seed potatoes.

Paul Debono

Mar 3rd 2010, 17:28

There is no bitter pill to swallow. I have read the judgment from the ECJ and it is quite clear to me that Malta does not qualify for any of the derogations available under article 9 – despite the fact that Autumn hunting has been classified as not providing a ‘satisfactory solution’.

However if the FNKN would be happy to fund any future fines from the EU on spring hunting then please go ahead with your spring hunting season……

Sylvana Zarb Darmanin

Mar 3rd 2010, 17:07

Paul Barrett, who do you think you are kidding?! You wrote that you "do not take a stand for or against hunting"!! Having followed your online comments, I have formed quite a different opinion. Sir, the ECJ has provided the necessary tools for the Maltese Government to open the Spring Hunting Season in a legal manner. I take it that you are finding this a sour pill to swallow. Why do you persist in creating doubts?! What exactly is your hidden agenda? The ECJ ruling has been interpreted by legal individuals. Even the European Commission itself has stated that a Spring Hunt ing Season for Malta is possible! Put your cards on the table, Sir, and be sincere!

A.Damato

Mar 3rd 2010, 15:54

For the upteenth time...................... the ECJ found Malta guilty not because it opened the spring hunting season between 2004 and 2007, but because some of the derogation conditions in opening such a season were not correctly implemented i.e the length of the hunting season and the number of birds taken. The ECJ also very clearly stated that in Malta, the autumn hunting of quail and turtle dove does NOT constitue ' another satisfactory solution ' to the spring hunting of these 2 species and that these 2 bird species are not of 'conservation concern'. So with a limted season and fixed bag quotas, Malta would meet ALL the derogation conditions and a spring hunting season is more than possible.

This comes out very clear from the ECJ's judgement but some people and entities continue to twist these facts in a last attempt to try to scare the government from opening a LEGAL spring hunting season.............. one wonders if they will succeed, we'l wait and see !!!

Paul Barrett

Mar 3rd 2010, 14:52

I do not take a stand for or against hunting in general.

Quote: The ECJ ruled against Malta but conceded that the autumn season, in principle, did not really offer an alternative to spring, which the government interpreted as an opportunity to explore "very limited hunting, under strict controls". Unquote.

I fail to understand how the Government can so wrongly interpret the ECJ ruling which found Malta guilty of hunting for SPORT during the migration to breeding grounds; it was ruled illegal before and remains illegal now. The ECJ ruling and Birds Directive give no clearance for Spring hunting for SPORT.
I do hope that proper independent none partisan legal advice by a legal firm well versed in ECJ rulings and the language in which the documents are written, is sought before we end up in really deep water with the ECJ. You cannot cherry-pick bits out of the ruling to make them fit an argument, you have to take the whole of both documents into account.
The relevant documents are at:
Birds Directive: http://eur-lex.europa.eu/LexUriServ/LexUriServ.do?uri=CELEX:31979L0409:EN:HTML
ECJ Ruling: http://curia.europa.eu/jurisp/cgi-bin/form.pl?lang=en&Submit=Rechercher&alldocs=alldocs&docj=docj&docop=docop&docor=docor&docjo=docjo&numaff=C-76/08%20&datefs=&datefe=&nomusuel=&domaine=&mots=&resmax=100