Gaddafi calls for 'jihad'

Christian Sciberras

Mar 7th 2010, 02:35

Joe Xuereb - I still can't get your point, other then walls of text.
Why do you keep trying to accuse me of religious bias?
I have close friends Muslim friends one 3 Azerbaijan and another 2 from Pakistan and Iraq.
Why are you excusing Gaddafi's call for religious terrorism against a country which least had to do with it?
Switzerland, as you possibly know, is probably the topmost country practicing democracy.

However, your baseless insults are very much accepted; I've been called a fool ever since I cautioned students not to climb on construction frames - which they fell over later on...

Joe Xuereb

Mar 1st 2010, 15:09

2) So you see Sciberras et all (for all it is worth). There is more to life than doing business with people and never mind the rest. One can hope to land on one's feet when the worst hits. But it's only hope. And on the way there, the price is often just too awful to contemplate. Note. Many of the risk-takers in the States who did not do themselves in, got up, dusted themselves down, and started all over again. Lesson not learnt. Maybe psychotherapy was not the industry in the USA that it is today. But one thing is for sure. Then as now, the varies of markets and economies are legendary, unpredictable. And one should never put one's country at stake for something so fickle.

Joe Xuereb

Mar 1st 2010, 15:05

1) @ Sciberras, I really shouldn't bother but I'm feeling creatively-factual and I never miss an opportunity. You 'know' I'm not religious (from other treads) so you offered me a sop, foolishly thinking I'd fall for it. But I'm no old fool Christian. I reckon that analyzing the workforce anywhere, most people opt for an ordinary job, as in fair day's work for a fair day's wage. Their only aspiration, a tranquil family life, modest house, maybe a small car and a pension at the end. Others, mercifully a minority, aim higher. They are risk-takers and prefer 'trading'. They want the villa, the high-calibre this and that and enough money to pay private doctors' fees for stomach/nerve ailments. They get stiff necks too, constantly looking around for bigger sharks. The going may be good but markets/business investments, as we all know, are fickle. Hence, the very high suicide rate during and after the Crash and American Depression in the 30s. People invested everything in Mammon and when he imploded, so did they. At their own hand. They cared not for their family, or the USA. Or themselves. THEY were THEIR SHARES. Those floundered, so did they. No identity. http://us.history.wisc.edu/hist102/lectures/lecture18.html cont./

Christian Sciberras

Mar 1st 2010, 00:36

Joe Xuereb - Does it matter? What matters is the kind of people we are getting to do business with.
I'm speaking without religious motivation:- A person leading a nation shouting "that nation sinned, let's attack it" is surely a dangerous businessman, lest next morning he wakes up after a dream of god telling him not to do business anymore because you have sinned.
I think it's only natural not to trust a person where his reasoning lies in a storybook. Take Malta on the other hand, I don't recall any recent bans on workers in Turkey (or any other country which the government might classify as "religiously evil").
Libya, on the other hand, sounds more like physically and fanatically evil, you know, the kind where terrorists are born.

Joe Xuereb

Feb 28th 2010, 18:04

My concern is that, judging by many comments here, it is safe to assume that these commentators have the right to vote, have a vote, and exercise that right come election time. The mind boggles. It is pathetic and childish at least to run for suppost from one post to another, alternating every minute, flavour of the hour kind of thing, according to mood or some passing single fancy. Very childish indeed.
I was quite amazed at one comment in particular. But then, when I reached the end, there it was 'Allahi w akbar' he said. Well, that said everything I need to know. Just proves how difficult it is to engage with faceless individuals who only offers a name by way of identity - and even that is very likely, an alias. I wonder why I bother! I really do.
@Sciberras, Christian. Do you have a religion-based agenda or do you not?

Wilfred L Camilleri

Feb 27th 2010, 00:01

Marcelo Kohen said that: "Libya was merely retaliating to rather unjustified Swiss government's decision to blacklist 186 Libyans." Every sovereign country has the right to blacklist nationals from another country!
The EU and Schengen has nothing to do with it. It's just an excuse being used by Gaddafi to throw his weight around. It's really pathetic to see people from countries that are in an alliance crying to leave the alliance at the first sign of trouble instead of circling the wagons to defend one of their own!

H Zammit

Feb 26th 2010, 22:03

"Let us fight against Switzerland, Zionism and foreign aggression," said the Libyan leader

I can't understand why the Jews had to be included in a dispute between two independent countries. Any excuse to lash at the Jews I suppose!

Mike Farrugia

Feb 26th 2010, 20:48

@Rosalie Spiteri
Appuntu! Ghalhekk ktibt bil-Malti, halli jibqa bejnietna.
It is my nature to un-dramatise even the most serious of situations.
On a more serious tone, I would like to know what is the opinion of Maltese who converted to Muslim. Can you imagine having to emigrate from a country and abandon your job just because a political leader dictates your religion?

Christian Sciberras

Feb 26th 2010, 17:44

Sabela, C Fenech
" 1) Pull the other leg ... we're not stupid you know? Threat to what?
2) Your co-nationals broke the law, one is now set free, the other is serving a 4-month prison sentence for breaking Libyan Law ... end of ... sort yourself out. "

1) Did you actually read the article? Here's what Col Gaddafi said in plain text:
-"Any Muslim ... who works with Switzerland is an apostate, is against (the Prophet) Mohammad, God and the Koran,"
-"jihad against it with all means"
-"There is a big difference between terrorism and jihad, which is a right to armed struggle,"
But of course, we asume Col Gaddafi was speaking about a war with pens, did we not? Didn't we??
2) What your (and your beloved Col Gaddafi)'s reasoning, one would presume Switzerland to bar entry into it's territory to all countries following to what Libya did. However, they did not.

I talk the way I see things, rather then take it against the EU for the fun of being a Maltese.

Evarist Saliba

Feb 26th 2010, 16:27

I had meant to make no comment to give quiet diplomacy the chance to solve this dispute, and so far negotiations seem to have been positive.

This statement by the Libyan leader may escalate the issue for no justified reason, and I am sure that many Libyans, including persons in the administration, are of the same opinion.
I have experienced the fine handling of diplomatic immunity by the Geneva and Swiss authorities, and am therefore surprised at the way they have handled this issue. The overnight listing of over 180 persons as a security threat to the nation on the basis that two of its citizens were under arrest, justified or not, is a clear over-reaction, like the call for a Jihad against (neutral) Switzerland. No one should dispute the right of Switzerland, or Libya, to decide who should enter their country, but involving other nations is a different matter altogether.

The way some commentators are equating the European Union with the Shengen agreement, is a travesty of simple facts that can only be explained by blinkered anti-EU bias.

ASpiteri

Feb 26th 2010, 15:58

@Mark Desira...“Once they are in the Schengen zone though, they are not sovereign about their borders, and just as we in Malta have to accept any potential terrorist that had entered the Schengen zone from Switzerland to deposit money in the banks, they have to accept the potential terrorists that enter from France, Italy and Malta”

You summed up the whole schengen insanity in one paragraph!

A nation who has no control of its border is no nation at all - Ron Paul

J. J. Borg

Feb 26th 2010, 15:28

Gaddafi should also preach an interior Jihad to his son Hannibal whose rather unmuslim behaviour is at the origin of this mess. As far as I know, drunkenness and domestic violence are not exactly in keeping with the Quran.

Mark Desira

Feb 26th 2010, 15:23

@I Abela:"As a sovereign state, Switzerland should be free to decide who enters its borders and who stays outside". Sorry but you are TOTALLY WRONG. If Switzerland wanted to keep full control of its borders than it had one very simple choice: NOT TO JOIN THE SCHENGEN ZONE (like the UK did). After all, Switzerland had no obligation to do so, but opted to join on its own free will. They obviously did so for their own gain, so that people could enter the EU from other countries and then travel in and out of Switzerland for "buisness" without having to record their trips.
Its funny that the Swiss are worried about national security, after having built their economy on years of financial secrecy allowing all sorts of money-laundering and fund-transfering to terrorism groups.

Once they are in the Schengen zone though, they are not sovereign about their borders, and just as we in Malta have to accept any potential terrorist that had entered the Schengen zone from Switzerland to deposit money in the banks, they have to accept the potential terrorists that enter from France, Italy and Malta.

ASpiteri

Feb 26th 2010, 15:13

@dominic fenech...i don’t need lessons from victims of the fables that ‘is-salvatur ta malta’ managed to instill upon people like you, in truly believe that we have some kind of ‘special tie’ with our Libyan ‘cousins’!

@I Abela...perfectly right! The standardization of major policies throughout European nations can only result in this kind of incidents. After all, can some EU expert please enlighten me on the main advantages of being part of Schengen? Traveling without a passport? ow what a headache to travel around with such document!

Christian Sciberras

Feb 26th 2010, 15:04

Bill Khan - That was 50 years ago. Aren't we supposed to be in 2010?

That said, this situation should be fixed as soon as possible, we can't lose any more commerce on other's ignorance.
However, I already stated my stance on the matter.

Carmen Attard

Feb 26th 2010, 14:55

Nappella lil gvern Malti biex ifittex isolvi din il-problema li dahhalna fiha Wara kollox hu kien pruzuntuz u mar jigri biex ikun l-ewwel wiehed li jifirma ha jdahalna fix-Schengen .ara l-Inglizi ma dahlux avolja ewropej . Jien zewgi ghadu hemm imma gimgha ohra talaqlu l-viza u jkollu jigi Malta . Ahna nafu xtensjoni nholqot fil-familja taghna meta nafu li fi zmien gimgha nistaw nispiccaw bla mpjieg. Hemm bzon li l-gvern jara xser jaghmel ghax jien naf fiema problemi tefana

Robert Vagner

Feb 26th 2010, 14:52

Marcelo Kohen, a professor of international law at Geneva's Graduate Institute of International and Development Studies, said that:

“Bern chose the wrong strategy.
In doing so, Libya was merely retaliating to rather unjustified Swiss government's decision to blacklist 186 Libyans.

The government of Switzerland dragged the whole of the EU countries into unnecessary over exaggerated illegal dispute with an ever friendly Libya where these Europeans are finding ample business opportunities

Knowing that Bern was acting irresponsibly and continuously failing to solve a problem that should have been solved long ago, Italy, Spain and Malta moved to help mediate between Tripoli and Bern.

The Swiss blacklist against Libyans is a crime, How can you describe such a list that includes the name of a child less than three years old.

A move by Switzerland to impose Europe-wide visa restrictions against nearly 200 prominent Libyans will backfire. That defeats the purpose of the Schengen agreement” - a Geneva-based expert tells swissinfo.ch

Dominic Fenech

Feb 26th 2010, 14:40

Stupid sarcasm rules. The point is not whether Libya or Switzerland is the better choice. The point is that no country should have the power by its unilateral decisions to prejudice the choices of other countries. (Too complicated a concept for some).

I Abela

Feb 26th 2010, 14:37

That's what happens when some idiots (thinking they are geniuses) can't see beyond their nose. This schengen thing is a load of crap. Why are countries calling on Switzerland to remove the blacklisted Libyans? As a sovereign state, Switzerland (or any other country in the world) should be free to decide who enters its borders and who stays outside. Apparently now it can't do it because the lot of the EU would cry foul thanks to this Schengen. Scrap this Schengen thing once and for all and leave countries free to exercise their sovereign policies. After all, before schengen we still traveled the world over.

J Micallef

Feb 26th 2010, 14:27

The 'best' friend of the Labour Party calls for a jihad against Switzerland. Doesn't this create a problem for the concept of Switzerland in the Meditteranean?

ASpiteri

Feb 26th 2010, 14:26

@Dominic Fenech...So what ur suggesting is to play tough on a democratic elected government like the Swiss who are the perfect example of world for peace and diplomacy and please a tyrannical dictator like Gaddafi whose hand are stained with blood of innocent victims?!

No wonder this country is in such a mess...for the simple reason that people like you had their influence over our nation’s foreign policy!

Christian Sciberras

Feb 26th 2010, 12:46

Sabela, C Fenech - Simple. Partnering with a country for personal gain ("business") regardless of the practices of said country. While Malta gains some tidbits off Libya, they gained a valuable resource in allied spies.

It's notihng, just doing business with murderers and fanatics.
Not saying *all of Libya* but rather it's most enlightened millitary ruler which seems to think god forsakes countries for commiting sins [of telling him to get the heck out of their country and leave them alone].

Dominic Fenech

Feb 26th 2010, 12:21

This episode has exposed a major flaw in the Schengen agreement, that allows one member state to act unilaterally and leave other members to pay the cost. By asserting its sovereign right to keep out whoever it likes, Switzerland in denying nationals of other sovereign countries the right to travel freely. The logical solution would seem to be the expulsion of Switzerland.

Mario Gafa

Feb 26th 2010, 12:21

The Swiss government has misused the Schengen visa to fullfil their ulterior motives.They acted wrong, legally, politically and morally and the only way out of this mess is to withdraw the 186 Libyans from the blacklist.
If not, the other Schengen countries should consider countermeasures such as boycoting Switzerland and issue visas to the 186 Libyan blacklisted nationals by the rest of the other Schengen countries.(Malta included)

Once Switzerland has abused the system and the other countries are suffering from their blunder, it will be just that other countries make justice and safeguard their interests.
Libya has been a long-standing partner and assisted Malta in many ways. We need to act in solidarity and pressure other countries of goodwill to close this pathetic issue in a positive way.
SPLAJ, Malta is with you in this dark chapter. Allahi w Akbar

M. Camilleri

Feb 26th 2010, 12:19

Gaddafi has no interest in peace and dialogue. He thinks he can dicate to tìothers how to run their country. He uses his religion to bring division and then tells us that Jihad is not terrorism. It is easy to say that simply to bring on revenge on a country that is exercising its right to decide who enters its borders. This is a serious threat to all Europeans. He should not be taken lightly. In the 80s it was him and his country that harboured and trained terrorists and supplied them with arms. He should concentrate more on how his is going to keep his people in his own country and offer them good jobs, rather then spending 1.8 bln dollars in arms from Russia, as was revealed a few weeks ago by Putin.

Isobel Mcgonigle

Feb 26th 2010, 12:04

Look at the greater picture,get your heads out of the sand,Gaddafi,publicly states,the Islamification,of Europe,within the next 20 years

Alan Meadows

Feb 26th 2010, 11:48

The EU should never have allowed this incident between Libya and Switzerland to escalate to the current impass, especially when Switzerland is NOT an EU member, but only part of Schengen. Quiet deplomacy with the help of the Meditereraen states could have achieved a solution.

This incident has highlighted a weakness in the EU set up, when it comes to dealing with international affairs. The EU is not a Federation with a centralized Foreign Affairs department, but an association of "independent" states.

No single EU country should take unilateral actions without consulting the countries most likely to be effected by these actions.

By Switzerland logic, Malta should act unilaterally to easy the ILLEGAL immigration problem, as the Northern EU countries are not directly effected.

Switzerland has succeeded in alienating an Arab country that is now, or was, an ally of the West. Gaddafi is not a Islamic fundamentalist and has kept Libya free from this movement.

It is in Malta's interest for there to be a diplomatic solution. We have too much to lose.

D. Scerri

Feb 26th 2010, 11:47

@MARIA AQUILINA

First off, it's Switzerland that the Libyan's are moaning about, not the EU. The Swiss placed Libyan nationals on the blacklist, not the EU. Nothing to do with the EU.

Secondly, the Swiss are completely entitled to add people to the blacklist. This is their choice.

What we are seeing here is Gaddafi throwing his toys out of his pram because one of his sons was told they were not welcome in a sovereign nation state due to their behaviour.

Want to finger point? Point it south.

Bill Khan

Feb 26th 2010, 11:35

Some one should tell the colonel that his countries is not invaded and therefore there is no need for any armed struggle against the oppressor. Hence the mere refusal of the swiss to ban libyans does not fall under the purview of Jihad.

Mr. Christian Sciberras, armed struggle akin to french resistence against the germans, the americans against the british colonialists are just two examples of Jihad.

C Fenech

Feb 26th 2010, 11:30

@ Maria Aquilina

no need to worry about Maltese jobs there ... those maltese who are in Libya are happily at work ... its the ones stuck "outside" Libya due to Swiss arrogance that are suffering ....

@ Christian Sciberras

no need to be ashamed of your country for seeking to do business with one of the up and coming economies of this world ... when you learn how to do away with blinkered bias then start writing some sense ....

@ Swiss Ambassador ....

"When the blacklist of Libyan officials was issued, we justified it on the basis of national security. At the time the list was drawn up, two Swiss nationals were under arrest in Libya and for 52 days their whereabouts were unknown. This was a threat to our security,"

1) Pull the other leg ... we're not stupid you know? Threat to what?
2) Your co-nationals broke the law, one is now set free, the other is serving a 4-month prison sentence for breaking Libyan Law ... end of ... sort yourself out.

Sabela

Feb 26th 2010, 11:11

@Christian Sciberras
What exactly is the point you are tryiing to make?

Rosalie Spiteri

Feb 26th 2010, 10:58

@ Mike Farrugia: Issa x'ghandu x'jaqsam??

I hope this dispute will be resolved quickly... :-( Sometimes these people let their pride get in the way of the common good.

MARIA AQUILINA

Feb 26th 2010, 10:41

Will someone tell me how many maltese citizens working in Libya are left jobless now by this thought less decision? I beleive more than 200 persons work there, that is 200 families without income at the moment. Thanks EU

Christian Sciberras

Feb 26th 2010, 10:25

jihad = religious terrorism. Didn't expect anything better from his highness Gaddafi.

I'm ashamed of the Maltese putting tradeoffs with Libya. And then people call themselves "Catholics".

Come on, tigux tghiduli l'inthom qaddisin. Imbghad hallija kulhad jiftah halqu fuq abort u divorzju.
Imiskom tisthu, ma nistax nemmen kemm jista jaqa iktar l'isfel dal' pajjiz.

Mike Farrugia

Feb 26th 2010, 09:14

Imalla ma ghamilniex kif ried Sant u ghazilna l-isvizzera fil-mediterran! Konna nehlu ahna ma rasu!