Ask what you can do to save marriages - Archbishop

Mr R Calleia

May 22nd 2011, 16:05

all happy marriages are the same, all unhappy marriages are different ! Tolstoy . Want my advise ? Don't get married, without marriage there cannot be divorce. Elementary ! :-)

J Schembri

Feb 18th 2010, 08:05

@ M Bonnici

Again my friend whoever you are. I hope you accept my apologies since my comments were not made towards serious cases but to frivolous ones, which I am afraid there are many.

With that comment I wish you all the best and good luck in your future.

J Schembri

Feb 18th 2010, 08:02

@ M Bonnici

I am sorry about your ordeal... really and truly sorry. If I hurt your feelings (or anybody else's at that) - I apologise. But in my first comment, that is about two or three days ago, I stated that it is only an excuse where the lawyer gets rich on one's behalf - I did not tell any one or played the holy saint that separation does not or should not exist.. But having a third party telling you how you should try to disintegrate the other party, even if it is fault is something which hurts more, at least I think.

That today's young people are not aware of the seriousness of marriage is true, very true. I have friends who do Cana talks and state that at times in their group, they would have couples that are already living together, couples that are already parents and then when they marry and start a new life they see what the responsability really is and start to shirk away from their new life.

M Bonnici

Feb 17th 2010, 22:54

@ J Schembri.
Well my friend the types of marriages you are mentioning here all of them are real but when you generalize about other things you are completly wrong. You cannot put all the separated people in the same situation as cases are all different from each other. No one will take forgranted the marriage because of divorce as separation is already available. Mentality must change on this issue and better leave people who are living in this situation or have studied in this matter to speak on what must be done then people with all respect like you that the only side they mention is that because their marriage is good the others are all people that are not taking seriously their marriage and other suggestions about what you hear or see. People like me are living in this situation and it is not an easy life to live, and is even frustrating knowing that it is not their fault!! Stop discriminating people.

J Schembri

Feb 17th 2010, 15:27

But if that creates a problem, couples should put their heads together and reach an agreement and not take the attitude of 'well if my husband does this, then I am nothing less than him so I will do that'.

Does anybody know that their are couples today that are marrying with contracts, that is ,for example, Fridays are ladies nights - so the female counterparts go out every Fridays, while Wednesdays are men's nights and so men go out every Wednesday or whatever. Do you know that there are couples who have their own separate bank accounts and one joint for everyday expenses and bills and so every payday, they deposit, say EUR 200 each, in this joint account. The reason? So that just in case they separate, the house and everything that goes with it are divided equally.

Today, marriage is celebrated with the idea that they will eventually might separate. I work in a place with hundreds of employees of various ages and have contact with the majority of them and believe me, I saw and heard all sorts and all types of things.

J Schembri

Feb 17th 2010, 15:17

So ok you guys!

Then why get married in the first place? Some people go blindly into a marriage and say - well ok then we will see what happens! Like getting pregnant and then getting married - now that's a good excuse for divorce! Why, we were forced into marriage so we can divorce! You can even get an annulment if you're lucky! Think again guys! Marriage is not something to go into without thinking and I am sure that you are mature enough to reason that. But how many young people are getting married and are not even prepared for whatever comes up.
I have been married for 25 years and believe me I have been through all sorts but and that is a big but - one thing my parents have thought me is that once you make a commitment, you should be loyal to it. And when kids come into the story the commitment is bigger and greater! Do not think that life is a piece of cake...trying to make ends meet with everyday bills is one big hell of a problem and one which causes big hassles in life.

jsammmut

Feb 15th 2010, 17:10

@J Schembri ,so if they go abroad for divorce ,why we in our country have to pay for our failing marriage. you allright and thats it.we need divorce to rebuild our lives again,and live happy as normal couples do.we have the right as all european citizens .

Mark Bonnici

Feb 15th 2010, 13:25

@ J Schembri.
If it is not a matter to get divorced to you then change your subject and go find any were else to make your comments as here is about marriage and divorce, every single word you said here I already mentioned them, everyone knows that if one goes to a foreign country he will get divorced but why I have to go abroad to get what I want???. And again it's not that simple to find a solution to save a failing marriage. I think that people here (most of them) does not have an idea about this subject they just talk, talk, and talk and their rule is I'M ALRIGHT WHO CARES ABOUT JACK, if written correctly will not be published.

J Schembri

Feb 15th 2010, 12:03

It is not a matter for divorce. One can go to Sicily and get divorced. BUT why is divorce to be allowed in Malta? People still separate and co-habit without the divorce. I think that divorce is some other reason with which the lawyers can get richer and richer! I think that when a person marries one thing that both parts have to keep in mind is that NOBODY IS PERFECT. Of course that depends on what type of flaw that crops up...other persons are the main culprits. But still if and I say if, one manages to overcome that difficulty and one forgives whilst the other admits to his/her fault and corrects his/her fault - then things might get better in a relationship.

However unfortunately in today's life, life is too fast and it seems that no one has time for the better half and sometimes the devil gets the best of the fact! So then comes the unfortunate situation of a separation and I am sure that the last thing one needs is a lawyer who tries to make a fortune out of one's misfortune!

Chris Reiff

Feb 15th 2010, 10:45

It's funny to see that people giving up their right to marriage have a big say in it.

Mark Bonnici

Feb 14th 2010, 15:38

@a attard, well I suppose that you are happily married or just happily single that's why you don't understand. Again generalizing, this is just like firearms, one can buy them now its up to him how to use it but everyone can buy. Now if divorce is available here, one can obtain it and its up to the person how to make use of it like any other human rights.

a attard

Feb 14th 2010, 12:32

hey you are all right lets get divorce see our children confused and everybody marrying 5 times if not more or what should we say about the the couples that are about to commit their lives together? I am sure it will be so easy to take things for grunted anyway who cares if this one fails i can divorce

Mark Bonnici

Feb 14th 2010, 09:42

@ S.Vella I agree with you in almost all of your message but how could you say that the government should issue a penalty on failed marriages???????? How could you generalize all the situations about a failed marriage???. We are already discriminated and nobody seems to care about it. You do not know how much a person pay to get legally separated here in Malta and after all the only thing you get is that you can stop living under the same roof, children issues, matrimonial house if sold or not and (hadt ma jiret il hadt). Nobody knows what their marrige will be as people change. With divorce and without, people still get separated so why discriminating a person from living and raising a family legally if the first one has not succeeded??? again this is being already done so better be legalized.

joseph quintano

Feb 14th 2010, 08:14

In conferences like these one thing which always strikes me are the statistics. In 2007 and 2008 there were around 5000 marraiges and around 1200 separations. When one looks at it it seems that marraige in Malta is in a crisis. However besides this, one has to look at the bright side of things and see that there are still alot of success stories in marraiges despite the many temptations of today's world and this is the most encouraging aspect of all this. Personally introducing divorce will only serve to increase the mentality that marraige can be broken down at any time. Jesus tells us that marraige is forever and he is right. Today, i understand more His teaching about this one- being married and a father of 2 takes alot of your mental and physical energies though i do it the best i can. But what about fathers and mothers who have two different families from two different relationships to take care of? I think they are definitely more stressed. So let us take Jesus's teaching on marraige not simply as a law (to obey or not to obey) but as a tool for us to be HAPPY.

Louis Busuttil

Feb 14th 2010, 08:06

Mgr Gouder was unscientific in his analysis, implying that by opposing divorce the Church was promoting better physical and mental health and better economic circumstances for the Maltese people.
To point out that divorce correlates with poor health, depression, and poverty may be accurate - but to go on from this to imply that poor health, depression and poverty is CAUSED by divorce is a step too far.
Mgr Gouder is guilty of drawing a fallacious conclusion, a post hoc ergo propter hoc fallacy where he wrongly attributes some of societies ills to one factor (divorce) which precedes the problems. Correlation does not imply causality Mgr Gouder. Poor health, depression and poverty may arise as a result of other factors besides divorce - and it is wrong of Mgr Gouder to fail to point this out (especially when he is speaking at Statistics conference!).
I was at the meeting and I can commend the statements made by the speakers from our National Statistics Office. The NSO representatives were totally professional and spoke impartially and objectively and kept to the facts.
By contrast Mgr Gouder was biased and unscientific in his analysis, and spoiled an otherwise excellent meeting.

adrian aquilina stjohn

Feb 13th 2010, 23:05

lets be honest,making divorce such a big issue,like condom machines at uni show how backward and brainwashed by unrealistic rules from religion some people are..and if you want more married people the divore is the answer,remarrying.the situation is not going to get worse then it is.and how you think you have the right to tell someone they cant do something just because you dont agree is ignorant and totaly selfish..2 things that sum up religion and its outdated dogma..grow up,dont do what you do not want to and leave others to live their own life.annulment ok,divorce not.how hypocritical.just following the script from the church like brainless robots.religion=intolerance

Isabelle Calleja

Feb 13th 2010, 19:12

The right to divorce is an accepted principle and provided for by legislation in nearly every country in the world. In the West this is facilitated by the secular state underpinned by the rule of law that makes clear the separation of church and state. Thus the church has no say in the introduction of such a law that caters for all citizens of the state whatever their personal beliefs. If catholics do not believe in divorce then they have the right to not avail themselves of this law, however in our secular, pluralist state, they do not have the right to impose their beliefs on others

Lina Caruaa

Feb 13th 2010, 18:37

What married couples need is enough education regarding family to be able to sort out their priorities wherever they are, work or play. It is no use crying after spilt milk because what is done cannot be undone. Remedies can only be found in forgiveness by acting responsibly towards others not egoistically. The Church comes in the picture because it has the tools which Christ indicated for our optimum of everyday living. Believers cannot enforce this on others but non believers do not have the right to enforce their own point of view either by making the Church a scapegoat for what goes wrong in their marriage. Life is full of choices and if they are unsuccessful we can only blame ourselves for having misunderstood. Yet without social solidarity for those who are entrapped in their own choices, families cannot be kept stable. As a society we have done well so far. Let us at least recognize that encouraging solidarity is much more conducive to families than providing tools for further break up and increasing expenditure on things which cannot improve the situation. The foundation rock of marriage is what the couple build for themselves.

SVella

Feb 13th 2010, 18:36

why are we all still arguing about this matter, the main reason couples fail is because they do not REALLY know who they are marrying, many women marry as it is their dream to have a fantastic and perfect wedding but after the wedding they go BUQ whats next ? and men , they get dragged along in the situation blind like donkeys.
both ends are to blame.
in my opinion the government should issue penalties for failed marriages as to wake up couples before they make their move, the church should only marry couples after a trail period of time -letting couple lives together to see if they are compatible. each spouse should consider each other as best friends not outsiders, and what about adultery i mean come on people at the end of the day its the same thing might as well stay single

Mark Tabone

Feb 13th 2010, 17:16

I agree totally agree with Josephine Cachia. Yes the oranizing of special night outs by employees or employers is just an excuse to create a friendly environment at work. Worse than this, is an event, called Course, organized by a particular Maltese financial organization in a Hotel in Paceville. This had to be held on 3 consecutive days, and employees were being offered to dine and sleep in the same hotel by their employer. As if, the course was being held hundreds of miles away from the employees homes. Did ever the organizer bear in his/her mind, that most of the employees had their wives. husbands, children etc.... at home? In my opinion, other so called modern things, such as mobile phones (including SMSs), Chatting on computers etc... are ruining families in Malta. So please think before organzing events. The rates of seperations has exploded since the above mentioned things have become popular.

c. camilleri

Feb 13th 2010, 16:18

@Mgr A. Gouder All your good efforts in favour of marriage are being frustrated by other fellow priests who the most renowned of them said that Jesus is in favour of divorce. Church followers are at a lose to whom they believe. It is about time to put an end to these presumptuous priests who are doing more harm than good. Unless this is done the hemorrhage of church leaverswill get bigger.

Christian Sciberras

Feb 13th 2010, 15:56

F Cassar - Now, that's the spirit! So if we don't use knives to kill each other, we'd rather BAN them.
This divorce issue is just talk. Divorce should be made legal, however it doesn't mean it is good.
In fact, I'd highly discourage the practice.

Contrast and compare with smoking; it is dangerous, it kills and it affects the general passersby more then the smoker, yet it is perfectly legal.

So if we keep a disease/addiction legal, why would we illegalize a [physically] harmless choice?

george Mangion

Feb 13th 2010, 15:41

Once I bought a house and having signed the contract I regretted it. I took the buyer to court but was told 'Stupid, you should have seen to it before signing". What do you say about a person who goes in for a marriage and then opts to rescind, about a person who could not honour the word given, "I take you for my wife/husband and then ..." Reason needs no might. Reflect please...

Paul Barrett

Feb 13th 2010, 14:16

Better a bad marriage than divorce - no, I am afraid I cannot agree.

I also really cannot see why the Church is so against a State law authorising divorce - it really has nothing to do with the Church, it does not affect them or the followers of the Catholic Religion in any way as by it's own rules, it is not allowed and would not be recogised by them.

However the remainder of the population (if they have the funds to pay the legal costs), could at least be able to get on with their lives, sort out their mistakes and get back into a hopefully better marriage and the setting up a proper (legally recognised) family both for themselves and their children.

Good for the State, good for society and most importantly, good for the children.

Charles J. Buttigieg

Feb 13th 2010, 14:07

“.....healthy marriage was beneficial for all society and it did not pay anyone to introduce measures that threaten this stability, such as divorce, porn and the wrong type of sexual education”.

This is the kind of language that is causing thousands of people distancing themselves from the church. What does pornography and the wrong type of sexual education has got to do with divorce? There isn’t any question about the evil of pornography and the danger of unprofessional sex education but is it just to equate them with divorce.

Divorce legislation could benefit the unscrupulous and selfish individuals who are very few in number but it would also give solace to many couples whose marriage had become untenable and that putting it very mildly.

The_state_is_in duty bound to afford the legal framework for those who want to get out of a miserebable marriage and start a new life with different partners. I have no qualms to appreciate the teachings of the church against divorce, my problem is to understand the church’s arrogance to push its belief down the gorge of other denominations. What makes this situation unacceptable is a despotic government an accessory to such arrogance.

Jesmond Micallef

Feb 13th 2010, 13:47

May I quote : "Couples who had marital problems lived in a context of friends and work."

I will put in my interpretation to this sentence :

I would have thought that people marry their greatest friends in the first place !!

Is there data relating to what professional work status, people who have marriage problems come from ?

I tend to think that people have lost the feeling for the "humble or simple" lifetsyles.

We seem to be living in a world where society values "Image". I feel there is truth in this.

Do people "love" eachother for what they are or for what "image" they have ?

Karl S.Borg

Feb 13th 2010, 13:43

Last week the pope was quoted as saying " non piu' annullamenti facili ". But would'nt it be better if he ( the church ) declares first instead " NON PIU' MATRIMONI FACILI ". Then there will be many less annulments and separations.

josephine cachia

Feb 13th 2010, 13:39

I think it all begins when collegues at work becomes best friends during a night out organized by the employees to make a friendly enviorment at work.You have to think to save a marriage.

F Cassar

Feb 13th 2010, 13:14

So, my impression is that only Mons Gouder speaks about divorce whilst the Archbishop keeps mum...am I correct?? And if yes why on earth can't the Archbishop simply declare the teachings of the church he represents ie Against divorce!

I am in favour of divorce, but the church should not be afraid of declaring its position against! Ma tistax toghgob lil Alla u lix-Xitan!

jsammut

Feb 13th 2010, 12:58

so what about long years waiting for annulments from the curia side.state is state ,church is church .we need divorce for those people that there marriages failed .