22,000 sign petition

M. Cardona

Jan 28th 2010, 14:54

cont

63 Having regard to those very specific circumstances, hunting for quails and turtle doves during the autumn hunting season cannot be regarded as constituting, in Malta, another satisfactory solution, so that the condition that there be no other satisfactory solution, laid down in Article 9(1) of the Directive, should, in principle, be considered met.

66..........by authorising the opening of the spring hunting season for quails and turtle doves for several weeks each year, from 2004 to 2007, the Republic of Malta has failed to comply with the conditions for a derogation under Article 9(1) of the Directive, interpreted in the light of the principle of proportionality

http://curia.europa.eu/jurisp/cgi-bin/form.pl?lang=en&Submit=Rechercher&alldocs=alldocs&docj=docj&docop=docop&docor=docor&docjo=docjo&numaff=C-76/08%20&datefs=&datefe=&nomusuel=&domaine=&mots=&resmax=100

M. Cardona

Jan 28th 2010, 14:53

For the attn of all C Finch alikes

JUDGMENT OF THE COURT (Second Chamber)
10 September 2009


49 One condition which must be met for the Member States to apply that derogation is, in Article 9(1) of the Directive, the requirement that there be no other satisfactory solution.

58 It follows that the finding that there is no other satisfactory solution, namely, as in the present case, that there are insufficient hunting opportunities in autumn, far from opening up, without limit, the possibility of authorising hunting in spring, does so only so far as it is strictly necessary and provided that the other objectives pursued by the Directive are not jeopardised.

cont

Sylvana Zarb Darmanin

Jan 27th 2010, 13:30

S Zammit, the problem here is that BLM are blowing out of proportion the very few illegalities in Malta in order to try and stop the Maltese Government from opening the Spring Hunting Season. In fact, the email they are sending to many individuals urging them to sign the petition shows the association of these two different topics. "illegal hunting is still withus even in 2010" Is this the only illegality still with us in 2010? It is just the only one that BLM are splashing all over the media and tarnishing Malta's image in the process. If you are happy with this, well I am not and I urge the Maltese Government to take the necessary action!

Chris Finch, it appears you are still finding it difficult to swallow the ECJ sour pill!

Carmelo Aquilina, you are making a very serious allegation here and if you are man enough you are expected to apologise. I NEVER EVER DEFENDED POACHERS! Furthermore, one addresses somebody by his/her first name when that person is an acquaintance!

Carmelo Aquilina

Jan 27th 2010, 07:39

@ Sylvana

as long as the people you defend keep killiing protected birds that breed in foreign countries then it is not an internal affair of Malta. Get over it and stop using xeniophobia as an excuse for logical thought. Spring hunting is only "enjoyed" at the expense of the conservation efforts of other countries. Talk about being selfish and "I'm all right jack" attitudes !

Chris Finch

Jan 26th 2010, 22:14

Court confirms that spring hunting in Malta is in breach of EU law

That is the headline and the fact. Whatever else the hunters want to read into the ruling is wishful thinking. It is obvious that the hunters and their sycophant are getting ever more desperate with the language they are using and their tactics to discredit anyone who has anything to say against them.

MMB - you still didn't answer my earlier question, you are so quick to point out the illegalities in other countries, why will you not do the same for Malta?

S. zammit

Jan 26th 2010, 21:54

@Sylvana ZD
RE:Illegal hunting and NOT spring hunting
''including those leading a local NGO for unjustly tarnishing our dear Malta's image. ''
The only people that are tarnishing Malta's reputation are the illegal hunters who think they can shoot anything that flies... If there was no illegal hunting then BLM can focus on other issues but we all know that illegal hunting is still a problem. And no it is not subjected to a few individuals or place but widespread. I myself know what i am talking about as i got fed up of seeing protected birds being shot and shot at or with missing feathers or dangling legs!
Do not get me wrong there are many good law-abiding hunters out there and that it is not fair they get collective punished and I agree with you that unfortunately sometimes the media gets out the wong news...but please illegal hunting is still withus even in 2010. Today i heard a hunter say in my town's village square ''ejja ha nmur nispara zewg tiri fuq tal-bejt!'' i think it would be better if you spend less time commenting on the times and start changing the mentality of some hunters!!

good bye

mario attard

Jan 26th 2010, 21:08

wow 22000 ! from 100 countries. the pro hunting petition had 35000 just from Malta. I thought Birdlife international and FACE agreed to accept the ECJ VERDICT ! Was that another joke from birdlife ? Mr Mangion WOULDNT YOU BE WISER if you had agreed with your Maltese members together with FKNK and the POLICE FORCE to declare a war against these poachers so this end once and forever !

r sammut

Jan 26th 2010, 20:33

Who is not against illegalities being what ever they are? Condemning poaching is not just a BLM prerogative but even the more so by the hunting community!

Poachers take pleasure to roam the countryside without having prying eyes watching their moves. The past two closed seasons did not deter poachers practicing their ploys. Precisely the opposite, as it might have been for them a blessing in disguise!

So why BLM is now muddling the Spring hunting for turtledoves and quails with poaching? Why is BLM trying to smear all bona fide hunters?

While on various occasions BLM stated that it is never against the legal hunting, why then it is trying to shooting down this derogation process? The ECJ ruling handed down to little Malta is similar to those applied by the many other EU States. This judgement traversed through the highest legal corridors and came out with head held high!

Sylvana Zarb Darmanin

Jan 26th 2010, 19:49

J Cutajar, I will not accept foreigners to meddle in our internal affairs. It appears that you do not mind it at all. Well, I expect the Maltese Government to take the necessary action against all foreigners, including those leading a local NGO for unjustly tarnishing our dear Malta's image. You must understand that the majority of the Maltese love and respect their country!

Chris Finch, you are indeed finding it extremely difficult to swallow the sour pill!! I again urge you to ask somebody to help you understand the ECJ ruling. Persisting with your "make belief" will definitely not stop the Maltese Government from opening the Spring Hunting Season!

Andrea Damato

Jan 26th 2010, 19:11

@ Chris Finch

Sir, can you please explain to us the meaning of the following sentence extracted from the link you put here???' Under the Birds Directive 1 the killing of wild birds is not permitted, though some species can be hunted as long as it does not take place during the breeding or spring migration season. Exceptionally, Member States may allow the capture or killing of birds covered by the Directive outside of the normal hunting season for a limited number of reasons, although such derogations are only applied when there is no alternative solution.'

This is exactly what the ECJ very clearly stated i.e there is no alternative solution to a spring hunting season for doves/quail in Malta as autumn cannot be regarded a satisfactory solution to spring!!!!!!

By the way many thanks for the link fully confirming what we hunters are saying Mr.Finch

Johnny Xerri

Jan 26th 2010, 18:49

WOW BirdLife Malta's international petition garnered 22,000 signatures from more than 100 countries in one week

Since BLM claim that ALL Malta is behind them and also 100 countries I would have thought that they had garnished not 22000, but 450000-17000.

Besides, a petition that requires no signature, not ID number, no means of verification. Just a Name & surname, city, country, email address, and telephone number. Hardly credible.

As for Mr. Finch first he is pro EU and then at the same time wants to incite government to break a democratic obligation.

Dear Mr. Finch, rest assured that I and many others did not favour all the 'special agreements' that government had made, agree with all the rules of the EU. When I votes yes I weighed the pros and cons and took a decision. Now I cannot go back and say, dear government can you scrap part of the manifesto?

Has it ever crossed your mind that some people like myself voted yes for the EU with hunting included, because both were important to us.

If you really want a referendum we should have one for hunting and a retake of the EU referendum without hunting.

Joe Camilleri

Jan 26th 2010, 17:30

@ Chris Finch

some experts from your link:

1st para: "spring hunting may only be permitted under certain strict conditions "

2nd para: " Member States may allow the capture or killing of birds covered by the Directive outside of the normal hunting season for a limited number of reasons, although such derogations are only applied when there is no alternative solution."

j.cutajar

Jan 26th 2010, 17:18

"Are you aware that Malta has the highest number of vehicles per capita."
MMB ...so because malta has lots of vehicles we should all go out shooting birds?
that dosn't solve the vehicle problem does it? don't try & have us believe you are concerned with the number of vehicles on the road when your real interest is in killing animals for pleasure
Same as hunters claim they can go round shooting birds because someone had an abortion or someone is taking drugs.
Notice how you can only compared hunting to the bad things in life.

MARK MIFSUD BONNICI

Jan 26th 2010, 17:17

Chris Finch
Taken from your referred website:. The judgment clarifies that SPRING HUNTING MAY ONLY BE PERMITTED under certain strict conditions strictly proportionate with the aim of conserving bird species. The Commission had taken Malta to court for failing to provide adequate protection for birds, and had also applied for special interim measures to ensure that spring hunting did not continue while the case was being considered"

AND

Member States MAY ALLOW the capture or killing of birds covered by the Directive outside of the normal hunting season (AUTUMN) for a limited number of reasons, although such derogations are only applied when there is no alternative solution.

The case has been considered and the court ruled:

clause 63 Having regard to those very specific circumstances, hunting for quails and turtle doves during the autumn hunting season cannot be regarded as constituting, in Malta, another satisfactory solution, so that the condition that there be no other SATISFACTORY SOLUTION, laid down in Article 9(1) of the Directive, should, in principle, BE CONSIDERED MET.

SO WHAT EXACTLY ARE YOU TRYING TO PROVE? SPRING HUNTING IN MALTA IS IN PRINCIPLE TOTALLY ACCEPTABLE.

Andrew Gatt

Jan 26th 2010, 17:00

@ Chris Finch and Dr Riccioli..........please stop boring us with your incomplete information, biased attitudes, warped reasoning and gutter insults.

They say more about you than anything else.

Henry Fenech Azzopardi

Jan 26th 2010, 16:42

@ Matt Cremona.

I take your challenge for a referendum, but first and foremost you have to put Malta out of Europe.

You see Mr Cremona it is unacceptable to make use of the hunters' vote to get Malta into Europe and then say sorry no deal. If you do remember the yes vote and that includes me, won by a small percentage.

The present goverrnment required all the votes possible to get Malta into Europe. In so doing the government pledged promises which he is now bound to honour.

In this connection, I sincerely feel that you are irresponsible to ask for a referendum now that you have used my vote to your advantage if you did vote yes.

The government has and managed to win a historic court case that is the envy of other european countries, such as Cyprus.

Instead of feeling proud of what tiny Malta managed to obtain against the giant European Commission you seem to downflate to your egoism just because you are an anti hunting.

We hunters are looked down by people like you but we were not looked down before the referendum, we were shoulder to shoulder in the public meetings.

M. Cardona

Jan 26th 2010, 16:24

@ Dr Michael A Riccioli
Dear Sir,

Wolfpack journalism maybe? May I suggest you stick to topics you are well versed with!

Regards

Chris Finch

Jan 26th 2010, 16:17

Hunters, stop lying to yourself and your members,
http://europa.eu/rapid/pressReleasesAction.do?reference=IP/09/1301&format=HTML&language=EN

Yes I am a citizen of Malta.

And no, no single issue referendum was held. If the hunters are so sure of thier support, why are they shying away from this? The referendum was held about joining the EU. No rational person would vote against joining because a side issue mentioned hunting. A vote fo rno spring hunting would have meant not joining the EU.

At least the politicians in Brussels wont be swayed by a few individuals who want to sit in piles of rubble and filth in pseudo-camo gear, playing Rambo with birds.

MARK MIFSUD BONNICI

Jan 26th 2010, 15:43

Dr. Riccioli
You fail to tell us where you're form. That way i will be able to tell readers what goes on in terms of illegal hunting in you country.

You might not be aware of what goes on on, simply because the Bird protectionists in your country might care about giving a bad name to your country.

You see, Birdlife Malta do not and are proud to display a few pictures of dead birds.

So please tell us where you're from, that way you might learn a few facts about your country's problems and discover Malta is not as bad as you foolishly believe.

I AWAIT YOUR ANSWER.

MARK MIFSUD BONNICI

Jan 26th 2010, 15:36

M FARRUGIA
Qabel ma tirreferi ghalija bhala qaddis, ahjar taraf min huma x-xjaten!

B'hekk forsi tirbah post fil-genna. Ghax ibqa zgur li-ix-xjaten u dawk li jzommu maghhom dritt l-infern sejrin. Bil-qerq taghhom l-hemm mixjin!!!

MARK MIFSUD BONNICI

Jan 26th 2010, 15:32

CHRIS FINCH
What is hypocritical is someone who complains about pollution and being disturbed by noise caused by hunters as you have done when referring to me, goes out and disturbs others with noise and pollutes the land with lead when using his vehicle.

Are you aware that Malta has the highest number of vehicles per capita.

I always thought hypocrites existed, you are the perfect proof.

Added to this "The ECJ DID NOT rule that Malta could open the spring hunting season. In fact it ruled against Malta and will do again should it open the spring hunting season." shows you really do not know what you're talking about.

Time will tell who really is the fool and who never fails to make a complete and utter fool of himself.

j.cutajar

Jan 26th 2010, 15:24

We have seen hunters here come up with countless links to sites about hunting in other countries .Hunters here love referring to other countries to justify that because they hunt in their country, then it’s right & we can hunt here in Malta too.
SZD gives us a classic example that when a foreigner DOSN'T agree with hunting then
they are told to mind their own business & condemn what's going on in their country...
wow!

Dr Michael A. Riccioli

Jan 26th 2010, 14:50

@Mr Bonnici

Apparently you are not aware that some of your hunters are going beyond the acceptable by all and sundry... the whole world is talking about this scandalous hunting problem in Malta which seems to be unique - at least in Old Europe - so - pray - tell us - why do we see pictures in the Maltese press pictures of dead migratory birds ...

S Mizzi

Jan 26th 2010, 14:34

Chris Finch. The ECJ didn't rule that Malta could open the Spring hunting season but neither did it rule against. That wasn't its role. What it did do though was leave a door wide open, in that whilst passing judgement, it acknowledged the fact that in Malta's case Autumn hunting is NOT a satisfactory alternative to Spring hence......
Furthermore, the ECJ did NOT rule against Spring hunting as you incorrectly stated, but rather that Malta applied the derogation in the wrong manner. I can't make out if yours is a gross error of judgement, a blind tendency to repeat what one hears, or simply a feeble attempt at misleading readers.
Also, the hunting issue was settled in the last referendum Malta held. Whoever voted Yes voted for what they deemed good and bad and there should be no going back in a democracy. End of story.
To draw an analogy, lets assume you want to sell your car. Now this particular car is in pretty good shape except for a ripped seat and scratched roof. The buyer acknowledges these faults, buys the car, but then 3 weeks later you receive a letter from his lawyer claiming compensation for the seat.

Henry Fenech Azzopardi

Jan 26th 2010, 14:28

Figure of 22,000 sugnaturies do not impress me in the least. As far as I am concerned Joe Mangion you can have 22,000,000. Your moaning only confirms my declaration in my previous letters that Birdlife have a hidden agenda.
This is now out in the open.
Gone are the breeding arguments.
Gone are that turtle doves and quails are endanered species.
Gone are the arguments that Birdlife won the ECJ case.
Gone are the arguments that Malta lies in the migration route.
Gone are the T shirts with prominent people displaying illegal spring hunting..
Gone are the exagerated, inflated numbers of birds found in Miziep.
Here comes again Joe Mangion with the now very nausing repition of illegal hunting and that spring hunting should not be opened becuase of illegal hunting. With the same principle Autumn hunting should remain closed for the same purpose. Birdlife have the cheek to say that they are not after abolishing hunting in Malta.
The more Birdlife comes up with such declarations the more the general public will realise the real intentions of Birdlife.
I declare that I am against illegal hunting and am all out to do something about it, Join us Mr Mangion

matt cremona

Jan 26th 2010, 14:08

Pinning all your hopes on the EC ruling is a clear sign of how your barbaric hobby now hangs by a thread …I hope it’s decision will be final & respected….or will you turn on them & stab them in the back with insults like you did with the president & prime minister…. then move on to publish new cases of chronic insanity?? or will you take to the streets again, holding the country to ransom?
If the birdlife petitions are haunting you so much then try deducting the number of hunters & their families from the entire Maltese population.
Let's settle this with a referendum.....or is it not in the hunter's interest to have a fair practical outcome of who wants what.

Sylvana Zarb Darmanin

Jan 26th 2010, 13:28

Michael A. Riccioli, are you that particular, and sorry for "birds killed by Maltese hunters"?!! What about birds killed by hunters in your own country?! Attack your country if you must BUT leave Malta alone!!

Chris Finch, a referendum has already been held. The EU Accession Referendum included the continuance of the Spring Hunting Season. Finally, I suggest you ask somebody to explain to you the ECJ ruling! Your last para.shows either how ill-informed you are OR how difficult it is proving for you to swallow this sour pill!!

Andrea Damato

Jan 26th 2010, 13:23

cont/....

As the ECJ very clearly stated, Maltra was condemned upon the derogations applied to permit spring hunting of the turtle dove and the quail in the years 2004-2007, NOT beacuse we applied them ( as we have a right to do so under article 9 of the directive )BUT because the PN govt. applied them incorrectly. And as the same ECJ again clearly stated that autumn is not a satisfactory solution for our sturtle dove/quail spring hunting, it paved the way for our government to open a spring hunting season IN LINE with the derogation requisites.

So Mr.Finch & all-antis, please stop trying to fool any gullible persons by stating false statements and half truths, if you want to comment on this issue, do so by telling the truth !!!!!

Andrea Damato

Jan 26th 2010, 13:16

@ Chris Finch
First of all Mr.Finch please tell us if you are a Maltese citizen or not because it seems you are a UK national and if this is the case, please be informed that your government applies not less than 400 derogations a year from the Bird's Directive to permit certain hunting practices that normally are forbidden under the EU legislation,INCLUDING HUNTING OF CERTAIN BIRD SPECIES ALL YEAR ROUND INCLUDING IN SPRING!!!!!!!!!!!

So first of all please give us a break and stop this interference of yours in this OUR issue. We never interfered in your country's internal affairs and we never went in front of nr.10, Downing Street doing a pantomine in front of your prime minister presenting signatures urging him to stop this and stop that like your RSPB did.

Secondly and as our federation always insisted upon, WE LAW ABIDING HUNTERS/TRAPPERS are ALL against any illegal trapping/hunting that might take place and the FKNK is proving this by instituting a marshal monitoring system to assist our authorities.

m Farrugia

Jan 26th 2010, 13:08

'Mark Mifsud Bonnici
Meta naqra dak li jikteb MIfsud Bonnici nibda nimmaginah xi qaddis li kull ma ikun jonqsu raggira. Veru li l-kacca hija regolata mill-EU imma hemm verita ikbar li hafna mill-kaccaturi Maltin u anki Taljani jisparaw fuq kull ma jaddi. Nahseb li jekk l-anglu gabriel jidher itir fis-sema ukoll jaghtuh xi erba tiri. Inkunu onesti u ma nippruvawx naghtu ix-xemx bl-arbil. Hawn Malta ma hemm hniena fuq l-ghasafr u l-pulizija huma ftit wisq biex jikkontrollaw. Meta s-soluzzjoni hija li l-istagun ma jiftahx

Andrew Gatt

Jan 26th 2010, 12:44

@ Chris Finch...........out of subject, out of point, out of context and out of excuses. Outright wrong, too.

Chris Finch

Jan 26th 2010, 12:33

What is vile is that so-called conservationists (ones that even have that word in the name of thier organisation) are against nature itself.

What is hypocritical is someone will complain to brussels about pollution and being disturbed by noise and yet goes out and disturbs others with noise and pollutes the land with lead.

I think a single issue referendum on the issue of hunting is long overdue.

The ECJ DID NOT rule that Malta could open the spring hunting season. In fact it ruled against Malta and will do again should it open the spring hunting season.

Andrew Gatt

Jan 26th 2010, 12:27

As usual, more rubbish and smokescreens from Birdlife, deliberately aimed at deceit and confusion - and if Malta's name is unjustly and unreasonably dragged through trhe mud, well, what do their foreign executives care?

First of all, illegal hunting is just that - already illegal. So why the petition? Aha, it's spring hunting (just for quail and turtle dove!) they're after.....but they also conveniently fail to point out that Malta was only found guilty of applying a derogation INCORRECTLY. The ECJ Judgement has estabilished that limited spring hunting IS possible and the Government WILL allow it as per pre-accession promises!

Sorry, Birdlife, guess Turtle Dove and Quail ARE prolific and non-endangered, Malta is NOT on some mythical 50-lane migratory highway, Autumn is NOT a satisfactory alternative to Spring and derogations from the Birds Directive ARE allowed.

Choke on 'em. All the lies and exaggerations and misinformation have finally floated to the surface. You must be really desperate to continue trying to pull the wool over our eyes. And, Joseph Mangion, spare us the hefty-fines-will-be-incurred garbage. You tried that scaremongering last time, So where are the fines?? Hallina Joe.

MARK MIFSUD BONNICI

Jan 26th 2010, 12:16

Dott Riccioli
Do people hunt in you country? And if so do they "know NOTHING about nature ... NOTHING ... I think enough is ENOUGH ... It's high time they showed a more civilised approach to nature." too.

What we and your country's hunters hunt is regulated by the EU birds directive. This is how Brussels is "putting more pressure on the hunters? "

What Brussels fails to do is to put pressure on pitiful fools like yourself. Those who fail to recognize what is legal.

MARK MIFSUD BONNICI

Jan 26th 2010, 11:58

Can Birdlife quantify their members and those of other international Birding societies rallied to support this petition as can be witnessed on their respective websites.

It is known fact that all these members oppose any form of hunting and that this golden opportunity to air their opposition will not be missed.

As expected Birdlife resort to intimidation. Their incessant lies have been proved wrong by the ECJ, all they have left is the support of equally minded anti hunters worldwide.

22.000 signatures shows a poor response compared to all members of international birding societies.

This petition is blatant proof of Birdlife breaching it's agreement with FACE to respect the ECJ judgement. It undermines the ECJ court judgement and the concessions allowed to any member state under the EU's own Birds Directive. It is also considered as a direct threat to Malta's Prime Minister and proper governance.

Dr. Gonzi will definitely see through this filth and as promised, even more so with ECJ approval, the spring hunting season will open.

Birdlife could not be digging a deeper grave. Deep enough to accommodate all that sign this vile petition.

Dr Michael A. Riccioli

Jan 26th 2010, 11:33

Bongu,

I feel so sorry for all those lovely and innocent birds killed by Maltese hunters ... so sorry ... they apparently know NOTHING about nature ... NOTHING ... I think enough is ENOUGH ... It's high time they showed a more civilised approach to nature.

What is the Government doing about all this? Why isn't Brussels putting more pressure on the hunters?

I was reading in the Guardian weekly this morning (8th Jan 2010) that "in South Africa the vulture's brain is said to confer the gift of premonition, a temptation to lettery players" ... so they're killing hundreds and thousands of those birds every year over there ...

Joe Camilleri

Jan 26th 2010, 11:08

" support is pouring in from all corners of the globe ", oh yes, and one could sign it more than once under a false and/or fictious name and e-mail. In seious petitions, one should write his id or passport number so that he/she could be verified.

Galea. L

Jan 26th 2010, 11:03

BLM stop denigrating Malta and destroying the goodwill that we have.
You should be prosecuted for harming our and Malta's interests.
I am no hunter or trapper but your actions are ridiculous and betray Malta and our interests.

Sylvana Zarb Darmanin

Jan 26th 2010, 10:49

Well BLM ,no amount of signatures will erase the ECJ ruling of last September, which incidentally you undertook to abide to. All that is left now is for the Maltese Government to apply a derogation and open the Spring Hunting Season. Your past claims have been proven as being false by ECJ, now you are not sticking to your undertaking! Kids normally do such things! Do you expect to be taken seriously, other than by extremists?!