Patrick Attard Naxxar
Gay rights do not harm institution of marriage
Pope Benedict XVI has once again talked about the perils of homosexuality to humanity (timesofmalta.com, January 11) while referring to the introduction of gay marriage in Portugal in the coming months. The Pope will be in Malta in April, for a visit which, according to the Prime Minister's Christmas speech, will unite the whole country. I like to see our polarised country united yet I am not rejoicing at the Pope's visit.
On October 1, 1986, when the Pope (then Josef Ratzinger) was Prefect of the Congregation for Doctrine of the Faith, he sent a letter to all bishops saying that it was understandable that violent crimes against gays increase, if the state awards them more civil rights.
It was equally sad to read some of the posted comments on timesofmalta.com - comments that generally mean that the introduction of gay marriage or civil partnership would bring about the end of the world.
One year on from my excommunication from the Catholic Church, I am even more convinced that gay people have no place in this organisation especially under the current Pope. Archbishop Paul Cremona (The Sunday Times, January 10) doesn't see non-believers or people of a different sexuality as a threat. It's a shame that Mgr Cremona's wise words, compassion and humility as a great bridge-builder, is thwarted by a man who is obsessed about the evils of homosexuality.
The civil rights I am talking about are the right for a man to visit his gay partner in hospital and take medical decisions in case of an emergency. The right to take urgent family-leave from work to take care of a seriously ill partner; the right to take bereavement leave from work when your partner dies; immigration rights for people who want to marry a partner who is not an EU citizen. These rights do not in any way harm the institution of marriage.
I also get the impression that the current Administration is not keen on awarding any rights and maybe they think it's better for gay people to emigrate and go to other European cities.
I think this is a huge mistake and a big loss for Malta not only for the artistic talent but for all other professional areas too. Other countries will take advantage of the excellent Maltese education invested in the gay Maltese population.
I hope that the Prime Minister will one day wake up and listen to the forgotten people and won't see us as a threat to the country. I wish for the dawning of a day when different people of different beliefs and sexual orientations can live in harmony as citizens with equal rights.
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Marc Buhagiar
Jan 26th 2010, 18:37
@ Joe Grima
'If you think that MY ideas are outdated, and yours are modern, have a look at the Old Testament, and you will change your mind. '
That's all I needed as proof that your ideas are in fact outdated.
Joe Xuereb
Jan 24th 2010, 14:24
@ Ms P. Graham. The pope is MORE than entitled to his opinion. No he is NOT more entitled to his opinion than you or I. He is yet another frail human being like we all are. The fact that he has been put in a position of supreme power, and has been smitten with some symbolic sceptre declaring him infallible, does not hold true any more. The divinely infallible do not make mistakes that they own up to in order to retain some semblance of credibility. I know this has happened and I am sure you do too. I am glad you say you wish he had evidence to back up his opinions. P. Graham, I would not hold my breath. And it is nice to see that you redeem yourself admirably by positing the question: 'do people think homosexuals come from the cabbage patch'. Thank you. I like that.
Franco Farrugia
Jan 23rd 2010, 19:01
@ Ms Graham - The Pope is entitled to his opinion, it is true, but look at what's happening .... his 'opinion' is invasive. The Church expects Catholic MPs to vote in a way that is according to Catholic principles when in fact, we know that MPs should serve the whole population!
Ms P Graham
Jan 23rd 2010, 11:08
Why is it that any debate on Gay rights always explodes into a Gay versus God versus religion battle?
The Pope is more than entitled to his opinion and as is his right, to preach that opinion to those who wish to listen. I just wish he had evidence of his opinions.
Where do people think homosexuals come from
Under a cabbage leaf?
Gays do not harm marriage
Fact: Many Gays are religious and attend church regularly and yes, believe in God.
Fact: As is evident in Malta, going forth and procreating is not always reserved for a man and a woman in a secure and loving marriage. (Father unknown)
Fact: Gays are born to heterosexual parents.
Fact: Many children raised by gay parents end up in heterosexual relationships.
Fact: Many couples choose not to marry and prefer to cohabit.
Fact: Gays can and do make as good parents as heterosexual couples.
Fact: You cannot unite a whole Country when that Country preaches "my way or the high way" because not everyone has the same ideals or beliefs as the next person.
Acceptance of differences and choices however, WILL Unite a Country
Joe Xuereb
Jan 23rd 2010, 01:42
Monica Vella, you need not get your knickers in a twist. Most men still turn out to be straight, a small percentage who identify as gay and a gi-normous number in between who, possibly because of greed - sexual drive can be all-devouring as you probably know - they wait until the opportune moment which why to turn depending on where the wind is blowing from, the circumstance, etc. You know what I am getting at. Anyhow, you needn't worry dear, there are still plenty for you to chose from. Your task now is to find your man - unless you have done already - like I have done. The thing is how to keep him. In that we are both in the same boat. If you have any useful tips, please post them here. Allow me to preempt you on one aspect though so do not waste time writing about it. I am talking about how silly and futile it is to promise anyone eternal love. Fairy-tales are fine in children's books but real life is rather different.
@Grima. Nature would never allow 100% homosexuality. Silly to suggest it.
Joe Xuereb
Jan 23rd 2010, 00:48
Typical human behaviour! Something goes wrong, something is flawed - blame somebody/something else. It's their fault. Surprise, surprise, the flaw (in marriage) does not disappear. Because the real causes of its failure lie elsewhere. Simple Dr. Watson. So, all you misery-guts out there blaming me for your misery, look closer to home and sort yourselves out. And if millennial, dog-eared scribblings do not provide you with the answers you want, that has nothing to do with me. That is YOUR problem to resolve. Nothing to do with me. You are free to think of me what you like. But what you think of me is not my business. I refuse to be stuck with you and your paranoia. I move forward and onward. And you do likewise. And do not look to popes and prelates for help. They are onto a cushy number which they are not ready to relinquish any day soon. Hurry along now and learn to live in peace with yourselves. It is tough but perfectly possible. That much I can guarantee.
G.Micallef
Jan 22nd 2010, 22:38
In Leviticus 18:22 it is written:
"Do not lie with a man as one lies with a woman; that is detestable." (NIV)
D Phillips
Jan 22nd 2010, 21:32
@Joe Grima
I have no desire to read any testament, whether it be old or new, neither of them has much relevance to the world I live in.
Where did I say that you had said “Gay people have no rights”, did I miss something?
Where did I deny God? Did I miss something else?
Where did I blame the church for anything? Another one passed me by.
What repercussions do you think there are for mankind if gay marriages are accepted ?
Paul Smith
Jan 22nd 2010, 20:28
"The true sign of intelligence is not knowledge but imagination" "The only source of knowledge is experience" Albert Einstein "the sole purpose of human existence is to kindle a light in the darkness of mere being." Carl Jung
Joe Grima
Jan 22nd 2010, 20:23
D Phillips. If you think that MY ideas are outdated, and yours are modern, have a look at the Old Testament, and you will change your mind. I never said that gay people have no rights, in all my previous letters. It is denying God and blaming the church for your troubles that damages your image. You need convincing the others, not insulting them. And another thing. There are many other things you can fit into a three hole socket. People have used all sorts of things, including knives,.....and were electrocuted!
Edward Caruana Galizia
Jan 22nd 2010, 20:06
I don't agree with bashing anyone's religious beliefs, although i too have a chip on my shoulder when it comes to the Church. That is NOT because i am possessed by satan but because of the Church's attitude towards me and other LGBT people. However i dont think that slashing out at the Church solves anything. Therefore, although i can understand your pain, i think we should all stop using hatred to fight for our rights. That being said.... The Church and many of it s followers (not all) live in an imaginary world where they are right and gay is wrong. Reasoning with these people is difficult especially when they use their religion to justify homophobic actions. And yes- all homophobia, no matter how small, is still homophobia and is still dangerous because it WILL lead to hate crimes against LGBT people. There is no reason why the government can t provide LGBT citizens with the same rights as every other citizen and protect those rights. Homosexuality is seen in every species of mamals and fish from mice and hamsters and octopus to lions and elephants and eagles and therefore it is a product of nature-not Satan
D Phillips
Jan 22nd 2010, 19:35
@Monica Vella, Physically a 3 hole electricity socket was made to accomodate a 3 pin plug. I can still use a two pin plug. What's your point.?
D Phillips
Jan 22nd 2010, 19:30
@Joe Grima, Your ideas are as outdated as they are outlandish. Get real. Come visit us in the real world.
Paul Smith
Jan 22nd 2010, 19:23
Joe Grima At least, if all men and women marry, I see a future to mankind. Can you tell what future do you see had it been the other way round: if all humanity embraced YOUR ideas of gay marriage? what % of people in this world are Gay as compared to strait people? very small. These people are born gay, some sort of genetic imbalance made them how they are, they are normal people trying to enjoy a normal life, but instead they have to put up with all sorts of religous Bull Crap in a society that likes to think it is secular but is not! I am church of England married to a Maltese catholic, married in the registery office in Valletta, my marriage is not recognized by the catholic church, does not bother me what a bunch of men (some whom join the church to disguise there homosexuality) think, men whom have never had sexual relations with a women, men whom have never been allowed to marry, men whom have never had children, let them continue to live in the dark ages, leave gays alone, they harm no one.
Joe Grima
Jan 22nd 2010, 19:11
That's the trouble, Mr Smith, that people like you exist! When you do not find good arguments to back your opinion, you dive low and insult other people's beliefs without any shame. Pity. Wait and see, for it is too early yet to be sure whether God really exists. Good luck to you.
Paul Smith
Jan 22nd 2010, 19:10
Peter Attard be careful what you say, people can be prosecuted for hate crimes in the EU. Let Gays do as they want, they are not offended me or millions of other strait people like me. Some of the most interesting, artistic and reasonable people i have ever met were Gay -
Paul Smith
Jan 22nd 2010, 19:05
Mr. Rima You are a sad little man I exist because i am writing on this forum, your God is an imaginary friend for grown ups
Joe rima
Jan 22nd 2010, 18:54
Paul Smith, neither you nor God have EVER approached me 'physically'. So according to YOUR reasoning, neither YOU nor God exist!
At least, if all men and women marry, I see a future to mankind. Can you tell what future do you see had it been the other way round: if all humanity embraced YOUR ideas of gay marriage?
Robert Callus
Jan 22nd 2010, 18:49
I believe the main reason homosexual marriages are opposed mainly (by religions but not exclusively) due to the myth that homosexuality can be 'cured', or that people can 'convert' to homosexuality if there are more rights. This is false. All heterosexuals will remain heterosexuals. The possibility is that some gays who have not come to terms with their sexual orientation will come out more if there is less stigma. This is beneficial the institution of marriage since such people (gays repressing it) sometimes choose to marry a person of the opposite sex to hide their orientation, even from themselves. Nearly all of these marriages fail.
Paul Smith
Jan 22nd 2010, 18:40
Joe Grima What makes you presume there is such thing as God? Has he approached you? have you met him? What proof do you have of a super natural being? Do you also believe in the tooth fairy? What about santa claus?
monica vella
Jan 22nd 2010, 17:34
Physically A woman was made to mate with a man.
Chris Reiff
Jan 22nd 2010, 15:53
@Peter Attard, as it says so in your scripture, may i take it that the priests who sexually offended hundreds of thousands of children will go to hell?
Your point of view is the point of view that the Pope has, and unfortunately, he is considered to be infallible.
The Vatican is just a sick institution, trying to instill thousand-year old beliefs on today's modern society. I can get better morals from Twilight.
S. Vella
Jan 22nd 2010, 15:39
@Peter Attard
Your post demonstrates a troubling lack of empathy to your fellow man accentuated by a misplaced thought that the Church or the Bible has anything to do with this.
If the Christian warrior in you forces you to quote the bible everytime, why didn't you quote "Love thy neighbour as thyself" (Matthew 19:19). I doubt your problem with homosexuals is religious in nature.
PS Gloating on the misfortune of Russian gays during a parade is tasteless and juvenile.
Robert Callus
Jan 22nd 2010, 15:14
Well said Patrick. Equally disgusting are the pope using 'environmental issues' as metaphors, and accusing homosexuality of being 'unnatural'. In reality, most mammals do have homosexual activity in the lack of a partner of the opposite sex. If there is something unnatural is chastity (Im not saying it's wrong but if we draw paralleles from nature it is the thing that stands out).
What the pope is saying is harmful and can lead people to commit hate crimes. I elaborate more on the issue here:
http://robertcallus.wordpress.com/2010/01/16/not-in-my-name-%e2%80%93-a-message-to-the-pope/
Michael Cilia
Jan 22nd 2010, 13:55
@Edward Caruana Galizia
Cannot agree with you more...
I am always gobsmacked when reading comments like that one Peter Attard posted. What does Gay Civil Marriage have to do with the Church?!?!
Will gays be getting married in Churches? NO. Will the church have anything to do with Gay Civil marriage? NO.
This is a civil right issue and concerns the State. I think the church has interfered enough in State affairs in the past....
Victor Fiorini
Jan 22nd 2010, 13:51
Dear Peter. Stop quoting the Bible. There are better uses for it, such as if you have a table that won't stand still.
Aimee Grech
Jan 22nd 2010, 13:49
@ Peter Attard - you mentioned that if homosexuals "act normal and civilised" they are free to join the civilised world. Well.... if as you said homosexuals should act in a "normal" way, they should be able to express their sexual orientation because that is their normality!!
adrian aquilina
Jan 22nd 2010, 13:12
only the religious have a problem with gays.the church hates anything differant to them.to condem anyone for being differant is unacceptable.peter attards comment was terrible.its mostly hetrosexuals,of which i am one,that conduct themselves in an improper way inc rape,child abuse,not gays.who cares who goes against the church?it is only there for the religious and everyone else can live their way.its the church that has caused most problems in the world,wars,dividing the world...nothing,especially laws and rights should be judged using religion..religion being just a man made form of control
Wiliam Grech
Jan 22nd 2010, 11:56
Prosit Patrick.
To be honest, this is one of the very few level headed contributions from gay rights activists I have come across. My comment goes beyond the subject matter or the stance taken. We all need to use a civil tone such as this in our debates. It really does make it easier for the reader / listener to empathise with the author / speaker.
Peter Attard
Jan 22nd 2010, 11:37
Homosexuality is the manifestation of sexual desire toward a member of one's own sex or the erotic activity with a member of the same sex. A lesbian is a female homosexual. More recently the term "gay" has come into popular use to refer to both sexes who are homosexuals. 1 Corinthians 6:9-10 : "Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters, nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God." To compound it all they parade themselves in public for all to see and in doing so, they offend the catholic church and passers-by by their indecent, vulgar and immoral acts in public. This is enough tomake one's stomach turn. No wonder in Russia the police arrested them for even trying to parade themselves in public. As long as they act in a normal and civilised way, homosexuals are free to join the civilised world. But showing off their merchandize does them no good. Ony throwing themselves at the mercy of the whole world and should be condemned.
Edward Caruana Galizia
Jan 22nd 2010, 10:26
I will never understand why the Church and our political leaders think homosexuality is so evil. It shows how much they just do not understand. Gay people are not dangerous, they have no agenda, they just want to know that, although homophobics will always be around, they will always have the support and protection of the law and have their rights guarded, just like evey other citizen.