Update 3: Zabbar shooting thought to be accident

Eric Camilleri

Jan 21st 2010, 09:50

First and foremost let us wish this young man a healthy recovery. This looks very much like an accident as already highlighted on TV media and will presumably receive the same accurate coverage on the newspapers of today. It is mind boggling how some people commenting here rushed to stupid conclusions with their typical anti-gun hysteria, declaring BAN BAN BAN at the first glimpse of the word GUN. Gives me the impression they play vulture and are always anxious that this sort of firearms accident or worst happens so that it can spice their day's motivation so they can let out the word BAN. These such persons may wish to ban themselves from owning firearms however they have NO RIGHT to impose that on others who are law abiding citizens ! To get an idea of their warped mindset they even have the audacity to qualify others with the term "certain category of people". Interesting education philosophy indeed !

J Cachia

Jan 21st 2010, 09:21

@ Mr W Azzopardi

" How can hunters delight in killing or wounding birds? They suffer too. " . Do you swat a fly ? They suffer too. Please.. that is a different argument. The 'tree-hugging' support group meets on Mondays.

J Cachia

Jan 21st 2010, 09:20

@Mark Sultana.

" F16 and harriers are not a killing weapon if they are unarmed "

Respectfully, your argument still does not hold water.. In that case not even a firearm is a killing weapon if it is not armed ( loaded ) ... so .... do we ban collecting guns as well ??

Lawrence Attard

Jan 21st 2010, 09:13

Defending guns by comparing them to cars and trucks is a lame and desperate argument. Vehicles are an ESSENTIAL part of our life - industry, supplies, emergency services, school and social life would come to a standstill without them. Guns on the other hand are NOT an essential part of life. With the exception of police/army, guns are only bought by the minority who actually find pleasure in killing someone or something, and this is usually the victim of a crime, a rival criminal or in the case of Malta, a defenceless bird.
The same argument for knives. They are a TOOL found in every home, 99.99% of them are used only for eating food and chopping bread. Shotguns on the other hand are not a part of every home, only those intent on killing something buy one. Where's the comparison???
So please stop insulting people's intelligence by comparing guns to vehicles, etc! A gun is a gun and the very vast majority of us live happily without them. Anyone who cannot exist without a gun has a problem which they should not expect the rest of us to burden.

Roderick Micallef

Jan 21st 2010, 08:16

Ban all firearms?Ha ha ha ha what a ridiculous approach, so why don't we ban all knifes, cars and trucks, all construction equipment and power tools, and ANYTHING that can hurt anyone along with the firearms?
Please note that this case hasn't even been confirmed to be an accident, it has to be confirmed first, but if it is then, it will be only an unfortunate accident, nothing more and nothing less.
The only thing that makes sense is to make people more aware and educated when handling items that can potentially lead to accidents, like for example drivers to drive more responsibly, for firearm owners to handle their arms with more diligence, for construction workers to wear protective clothing and develop health and safety skills etc.
By banning ANYTHING it doesn't mean in any way that the risk factor will go away, no one will learn anything and we would be simply running away from reality. I hope that this young man will have a speedy and full recovery from this incident, I also hope that who ever caused the accident took all the necessary precautions to avoid such an accident and wasn't caused due to negligence!

W. Azzopardi

Jan 20th 2010, 22:12

This is a sad experience.it once happened to a relative of mine. How can hunters delight in killing or wounding birds? They suffer too.

John Matthews

Jan 20th 2010, 21:34

@ R Sammut

A lot of what you say is quite relevant HOWEVER the only thing that, in my opinion, lets it down is the use of the term WEAPONS.
Firearms are not necessarily "weapons" Anything can be a weapon in the wrong hands. It is the INTENT in the way said weapon is being used.

r sammut

Jan 20th 2010, 20:13

This is really a terrible accident, and as for myself I sympathise with both families who have to endure this devastating experience!

Police are looking into the matters.

Joseph Spiteri provided a brilliant link to America’s most dangerous sports. Guns and shooting are not even mentioned among the top 15! Although a Malta statistics might prove to be slightly different because of lesser population numbers, it is to run parallel.

http://www.livescience.com/health/060614_sport_injuries.html

Some anti guns commentators already jumped the wagon to ban all guns, the registered ones i.e.! To these guys, it seems that the weapons are on a vindictive spree, against humanity! How about a further safety initiative guys, everybody wraps up as mummies to further minimise accidents?

Steve Farrugia

Jan 20th 2010, 20:05

I hope that this man recovers soon. We'll pray for him.

Some good logic is evident in all these comments but unfortunately you will always find someone who's ideas are a bit confusing when it comes to firearms!

Banning legally owned firearms will never solve anything! It's like you are saying ban cars to prevent accidents! Foolish arguments=Foolish answers.

Steve Farrugia

John Matthews

Jan 20th 2010, 19:54

HEY ALL
Update on tanker driver
Sentenced to 2 measly years in prison for dangerous driving. Apparently the maximum sentence.
What a load of rubbish. Get my point?

Anthony Formosa

Jan 20th 2010, 19:41

@ J.Borg , Franco Farrugia, it's disgusting, can you for once put your hatred away? With a gun you can do anything, good or bad, same as with doctors, they can cure and they can kill, 25 million abortion per year.

Get well soon to the victim of this traggic accident.

Sylvana Zarb Darmanin

Jan 20th 2010, 19:19

J Borg, Franco Farrugia et al, can't you realise that readers have got used to your biased comments? Show some respect, if you know how, to this family! Police are still investigating, but if it results that this was accidental, accidents are bound to happen with anything we operate.

L Debono

Jan 20th 2010, 19:19

If you are a gun enthusiast, or a hunter you would support firearms but those that are not, will support a ban. I’m not trying to make people love guns but at least talk with some common sense. Now let me give you another practical picture. Disarm the AFM and the SAG and see what happens? Would you be happy when you get a crowd of criminals pushing their way into your home, armed with illegal guns, looting everything you own and possibly raping your loved ones? Think about it. Let me turn a notch. How often were you in serous danger and you had nothing to defend yourself with? If you haven’t yet you are lucky but if you got away unharmed you are much luckier. Would you gamble on that next time?

Most swords are double edged = weapons and firearms can be used for good things or for crime. Don’t criticize because things are not always what they seem.

John Matthews

Jan 20th 2010, 19:12

HEY ALL
Now 1800hrs UK time. Just come through on the 6 o'clock news BBC 1.
"Driver uses his tanker as a weapon"
Ban all tankers then you wont get any petrol to fuel your cars just in case people get run over.

John Matthews

Jan 20th 2010, 18:51

@ Joseph Spiteri
A well written letter BUT are you aware that the UK government is totally hypocritical when it comes to pistol shooting?
For example, Pistol Shooting is a recognised OLYMPIC sport but one is not allowed to practice that sport in the UK. If a person wishes to represent the UK in this sport, he/she must go abroad (at his/her own expense) to practice. He/She must then apply for special dispensation to bring His/Her own pistol back into the country in order to represent it. How hypocritical is that? This can obviously be verified, so much so that even foreigners (persons other that UK residents) must get special permission to come into the UK with their firearms to represent their own countries but at least they can practice in their own country.. I have said it before and I say it again, Malta has possibly some of the best and safest firearms laws in the world and the UK can learn from "tiny" Malta. Your shooters are a credit to your country and I wish them well. I have to go to Belgium to practice my sport .
Need I say more about the UK government? except HYPOCRITICAL.

Johnny Xerri

Jan 20th 2010, 18:50

@ the newly formed anti-guns members,

Please not that in order to disarm licensed gun owners the government would be violating:
1. EU and international laws that prohibit governments from confiscating any objects which are legally owned and have not been used in a crime.

2. Equal human rights since he would be incriminating and collectively punishing members of society in direct violation EU and local constitution.
Furthermore, if you believe that by confiscating legal guns, illegal gun use, for crime, bank holdups, murders...will stop, think again. The criminal has what is called a 'beautify mind' he knows from where he can obtain a gun, bomb, weapon, drugs easily. A criminal is always a step ahead of the police.

The criminal mind would also have peace of mind that when robbing a house, the person inside it is disarmed.

Grow up take of your blinkers admit that the only reason you want guns to be collected is that you are anti hunting. Accept that hunting is here to stay, at least in autumn/winter, just like all EU member states. Just allow the government to apply the EU Bird Directive (no more no less) and stop being extremists

censu attard

Jan 20th 2010, 18:30

@ mark sultana,
You really didn`t answer my question, you either didn`t understood my comment or you are trying as we say in Maltese " trid tiprova id-dur mal-lewza"

Chris Finch

Jan 20th 2010, 17:15

@ I Galea, I always wondered what era you were living in and now I know.

Joseph Spiteri

Jan 20th 2010, 17:05

@mark sultana

Mr sultana the French swords where not for sure designed to cut meat in the kitchen. They where designed to kill. But nowadays civilized countries compete in Olympic events with such devices. Martial arts and boxing for sure where never designed to keep you fit or increase you internal energy. But again civilized countries compete in Olympic events. What’s next after we ban firearms, we ban chess since it was used to simulate battles? We are lucky that shooting is giving a good name to Malta when competing in olympic events.

If you want to ban sports start with the most dangerous. Just Google it I’m sure you know how. Look at a simple article like this http://www.livescience.com/health/060614_sport_injuries.html

Which sports we want to ban next basketball, bikes, archery, boxing?

John Matthews

Jan 20th 2010, 16:51

@ Mark Sultana
Does the so called logic you refer to include the V bomber that came down "by accident" in the street in Zabbar?

mark sultana

Jan 20th 2010, 16:51

@ censu attard

1) thanks for admitting that shotguns kill
2) do you want the answer on humans (in malta or worldwide)
3) do you want the answer on birds (legal and illegal)

firearms shouldn't be abolished if they are the top killer or not. one life is enough....

mark sultana

Jan 20th 2010, 16:33

@ J cachia

F16 and harriers are not a killing weapon if they are unarmed. My point is that during the shows they do not arm them up. having said that I agree that i wouldn't take my kids to watch somehing that is designed to kill.

@ cedric

Your argument falls if we are discussing accidents. If i cross the road i need to extra careful because a car could kill me. if i go to the countryside do i need to be careful a hunter could accidentally fire a shot etc etc....these accidents have happened.

censu attard

Jan 20th 2010, 16:27

@ J.Borg and Franco Farrugia,
When something about guns,hunting or trapping appears on the media you are always the first ones to comment against it,but please could you answer me this question, what was the highest killer last year ( 2009 ), traffic ? drugs ? alcohol ? cigarettes ? knives ? or guns ?

thank yous

J Cachia

Jan 20th 2010, 16:22

@ mark sultana . Yes maybe Mr Cardona does not deserve an answer re football. But even an F16 or a Harrier were designed to kill , but still thousands flock to the air-shows every year. They are excused because they can never afford a harrier in their own house ?

Cedric Busuttil

Jan 20th 2010, 16:22

This seems to be an accident. At least so far.
@ all those who are against firearms...... -- Well, I totally disagree with you, if someone want to hurt someone else, then he will still do it with some other thing. Guns are not the easiest way I suppose. Anything could be used as a weapon.

J Cachia

Jan 20th 2010, 16:11

Let's keep on track people. Firearms for self defence and firearms for Target Shooting / Sport / Collection are not the same thing. Just the same , law or not , the criminal will actually BE DELIGHTED of knowing that only he has the privilage of owning a firearm . To the anti-gunnies. Do you really prefer it like this ? Hmmm I wonder !

smifsud

Jan 20th 2010, 16:04

@Ivan Scicluna ......yes but people use firearms to kill people in many cases ... by accident or premeditated ....

mark sultana

Jan 20th 2010, 15:59

@ ivan scicluna, m said, m cardona

you argue that guns/firearms should not be abolished because it would mean so would cars, knives etc. You must however agree that the gun is the only one designed to actually kill, the others not. so i agree that it is the person that is responsible for an action and not the item used, but this is obvious becase nothing works on its own.

Don't take it against those like me who are totally against instruments designed to kill.

as for comparing it to a football game....oh well you don't really expect or deserv an answer do you Mr Cardona?

lgalea

Jan 20th 2010, 15:52

No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms.
Thomas Jefferson

John Matthews

Jan 20th 2010, 15:26

@ J Borg
You have not researched your subject as usual but formed your own biased opinion.
I suggest that you get a copy of the Cullen report and the results of the Snowdrop Campaign that occured after the tragedy at Dunblane. It transpires that the lady who was the figurehead of the Snowdrop Campaign knew nothing about firearms and therefore had to be "primed" by others. My point being has the banning of certain firearms decreased shootings in the UK? NO IT CERTAINLY HAS NOT and this can be proved. 99.999% recurring of gun related crimes in the UK are carried out by the criminal element with illegal firearms and NOT by law abiding citizens who hold firearms licenses. Ask yourself this, would you deliberately run down someone in you car and lose your licence and your freedom? I think not. Likewise this principle applies to the hunters.

M. Cardona

Jan 20th 2010, 15:06

@ J Borg in line with your abolitionist line of thought....Maybe we are waiting for Malta to become a totalitarian state, or for a greater thrust towards tyranny by the majority. You really ought to become somewhat more tolerant of others!

@ Franco Farrugia
your inference is completely illogical, and incomprehensible.

@both, maybe we ought to withdraw all football since players have been known to injure themselves and the same goes on and on!

Joe Anastasi

Jan 20th 2010, 14:54

One hundred percent in agreement with both Mr. Farrugia and Mr. Borg.

But sorry gentlemen, we're wasting our time. It will never happen.

John B Vincenti

Jan 20th 2010, 14:43

@ Mr Farrugia and Mr.Borg

First and foremost, we must pray for the victim and his family. No one wants to contemplate what he is or his mother may be going through at this very moment.

It is so revealing to see you anti-gunners jump so readily onto any negative news regarding shooting, without showing the least hint of empathy is shown for the "Victim"
As is expected, you come to your own conclusions despite the fact that the Police are still investigating.
I suppose not amount of mature reasoning will ever open your eyes to the fact that you method of thinking is limited by your inability to weigh the situation.
More than guns, ideal talk and gossip can cause more permanent damage. Unfortunately, we are born into a troubled world, where no one is immune to pain, sorrow, accidents or death. The "word" is more powerful than the sword for it can build or destroy. Before you speak, try to think that what you say is going to make a positve contribution to the subject.

M.SAID

Jan 20th 2010, 14:41

@franco, j.borg

Guns will be collected as soon as all cars are removed from the streets cos accidents happen!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Biased thinking of yours as usual!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Good day.

J Cachia

Jan 20th 2010, 14:34

@Mr. J.Borg . I do not trust your driving. I want your car impounded ! I don't care that you run down someone in an accident . I still want your car 'rounded up'

John Matthews

Jan 20th 2010, 14:33

@ Franco Farrugia
You must be talking rubbish or are you so naive that you woildn't know how to start to get a gun(illegal that is). Surely you have been to the cinema or read novels based on fact as to how the criminal underworld goes about its business. First find a crook, then a crook who knows a crook who knows a crook who knows a crook and eventually you will come up with an illegal gun. Get my drift?

S Vella

Jan 20th 2010, 14:32

@ J Borg
@ Franco Farrugia
Quote "Police sources said the shooting appeared to have been accidental,"
Most of the firearms that are licenced are in the hands of hunters....if it was an accident , it could have happened with anything not just a shotgun, so how do you expect to round up or disable firearms???We can round up and disable anything that can cause an accident then.
I agree that licenced persons to have a firearm should be of good conduct and responsable.
It would be much wiser to comment on illegal firearms not the legal ones which are registered and police can easily trace.

Ivan Scicluna - Rabat

Jan 20th 2010, 14:27

Guns DON'T kill people...people kill people.

With the warped logic that guns should be banned because of the odd shooting, then like-wise we should ban cars, bikes, kitchen knives, horses, hammers, srcew-drivers etc etc etc ad infinitum because these have, in the past, caused grievious bodily harm or death!

Moreover, Malta has one of the most stringent gun laws in the world.

Joss Galea

Jan 20th 2010, 14:21

@Franco Farrugia. I totally agree with you!!!!

Charles Sammut

Jan 20th 2010, 13:57

@ Franco Farrugia and J Borg

Yes, indeed. There is the same problem with cars. But with cars it is even worse. Far more people are killed or maimed in car accidents, most of which are not even planned. Cars are in the hands of irresponsible people and you don't even have to provide a conduct certificate to drive one. Any criminal can get his hands on one of these lethal instruments and wreak havoc on our roads. Not only criminals but mentally unstable people, drug addicts, alcoholics and downright brain dead people. Ban cars as well, and knives too for good measure.

A criminal intent on shooting someone will always find ways and means to acquire a firearm. The vast majority of licensed firearms are in the hands of law abiding citizens. Everybody has the right to protect himself and his family.

What you are suggesting will only remove legal firearms from circulation. Illegal ones, the ones used in crimes will remain.

Franco Farrugia

Jan 20th 2010, 13:27

But why are shotguns in the hands of a certain category of people? What I mean to say is this: if I want to shoot someone down, .... where would I find the gun to shoot with? I don't have one; neither do the people that surround me! So, again, .... I cannot EVER arrive at a situation where I shoot someone down in the heat of the moment. I would have to plan and plan and plan and PERHAPS find a shotgun.
Which brings me to my conclusion, therefore: that guns are in the hands or, they are around a certain kind of people. There are too many guns around and there should be a major cleanup of weapons!

J. Borg

Jan 20th 2010, 12:16

what are we waiting for to round up or disable all firearms?