H1N1 vaccination programme to continue

Christian Sciberras

Feb 7th 2010, 00:59

M Micallef - First of, what you call as "Y2K" scam caused problems in anything from banks nuclear power plants. Secondly, there's a difference from accepting someone's opinion ("it might be dangerous") to someone's shouts ("don't take it, they want to get you").
I'm not a medical student (anymore). But that doesn't decrease the relevance of information; ask and I'll cite.

yaz tabone - Ok, don't get shocked or anything, I don't want anyone to get hurt prematurely, but *deep breath* do you realize the next time you're walking down a stair there's 10% chance of tripping and another 2% of hitting your head and die right there?
That's a higher probability then the vaccine going bad. Other then that, I hope/wish you have informed and reliable sources.

Come to think of it, apparently, I'm not dead or paralyzed yet. Hmm...

Mark Piscopo

Jan 18th 2010, 17:40

@yaz tabone Well done , really analyzed well the situation!

Mark Piscopo

Jan 18th 2010, 16:34

While you are still healthy and not showing any symptoms of H1N1 infection, in order to prevent proliferation, aggravation of symptoms and development of secondary infections, some simple steps can be practiced.1Gargle twice a day with warm salt water or Listerine. *H1N1 takes 2-3 days after initial infection in the throat/nasal cavity to proliferate and show characteristic symptoms. Simple gargling prevents proliferation. In a way, gargling with salt water has the same effect on a healthy individual that Tamiflu has on an infected one. Don't underestimate this simple, inexpensive, and powerful preventative method.2Blow the nose hard once a day and swab both nostrils with cotton buds dipped in warm salt water. This is very effective in bringing down viral population 3. Boost your natural immunity with foods that are rich in Vitamins C and D. If you have to supplement with Vitamin C tablets, make sure that it also has Zinc to boost absorption.4. Drink as much of warm liquids (tea, coffee, etc) as you can. Drinking warm liquids has the same effect as gargling, but in the reverse direction. They wash off proliferating viruses from the throat into the stomach where they cannot survive, proliferate or do any harm.

yaz tabone

Jan 18th 2010, 15:51

i have a 19month old baby, who's diabetic, who will not be vaccinated! i have been doing plenty of research, and there's still more to learn. everything i've read so far has scared me to death, from the risk of becoming paralyzed to the risk of dying! i will NOT have my son vaccinated with such poison when its so obvious that there's more harm than good.
its a shame that some people refuse to educate themselves and look things up before they get vaccinated.

what bout the 22yr old woman that died after the vaccine (in malta) - was it some hoax or is it being kept quiet?

"Funny how when someone dies of swineflu with a pre-existing condition they died from swineflu - no question. And if someone dies from the vaccine with a pre-existing condition they died from the pre-existing condition - no question."

~One last thing,the only immunity a swine flu jab has is the immunity the big pharmacutical companys have from any damages caused by the jab, basically you cannot claim for any damages to your health from th H1N1 swine flu jab,now what does that tell you?? smell a rat? excactly!!~

M Micallef

Jan 18th 2010, 15:32

Dear Mr Sciberras, I reiterate my position on the subject. Ignore the facts if you like and participate to an other potential Y2K scam. There are people who have to take hard decisions and being bombarded by a yearly apocalypse is not making it easy to differentiate money making schemes from real dangers. A word of advise, if you are a medical student i suggest to be more open to people's opinion, because in the real word it's not black or white, it's mostly shades of grey! Back on topic, an other daily has an interesting but bad experience about this blessed vaccine. regards

Christian Sciberras

Jan 18th 2010, 10:46

@M Micallef - Calm down? It's not me causing this racket. And I'm certainly all-go for the vaccine.
The disease has long been gone from the "ignore and contain" stage.

Again, bring hard facts into discussion. I am not arguing against petty baseless arguments.
If someone believes that the vaccine is harmful for him/herself fair and well.

But don't go around scaremongering just to get some attention.

M Micallef

Jan 17th 2010, 19:17

Dear Mr Sciberras,
I would like to ask you to calm down and think a bit about those people who have a responsibility towards children, babies, elderlies and as you call them "high risk people". This whole H1N1 story has gone form outright panic because of a WHO representative personally declared a pandemic ("I am declaring a pandemic...") to GPs sending people home to rest and nothing happens. Now we have this vaccine and people are pushing the panic button again! We had 4 people dying of H1N1, amongst them a foreigner and an uncertain circumstance. Let's keep them 3 out of 400,000, that makes a 0.00075% fatality rate in Malta and 13,000 out of 6,692,030,277 worldwide is 0.000194%. Unconfirmed fatality by vaccine is 1 out of 55,000 :- 1.8%!
I didn't like the way the Health dept rep on a local TV program said, "..we are calling up doctors to stop them telling people not to take the vaccine.." Good!
In the meantime we will still have a catch 22 situation of whether or not to give the vaccine to our loved ones, but who cares, it is easy when you decide only for yourself.

Christian Sciberras

Jan 17th 2010, 01:14

H Micallef - There are many strains of flu, but happens they don't crop up yearly.
Also happens that H1N1 is not a strain, but rather a considerable mutation from the norm.
It is also interesting to note that the deadly [biosafety level 3 agent] of the Spanish flu strain is also H1N1.
Interestingly, the Spanish flu [H1N1] was known since at 1918, so how exactly is the vaccine [too] new?

-"Yes, USUALLY vaccine companies don't advise vaccinating pregnant women. Why? Because they DON'T test it on pregnant women. For obvious ethical reasons."
They don't on humans either, for "obvious ethical reasons", so how do you suppose they get to test them? Maybe not all people get chicken when they hear "shot" or "syringe"?

@Mark Piscopo - Throwing a link to youtube already invalidates your credibility.
Sure, we all know how to Google "h1n1 vaccine is bad".

I'm amazed by the amount of hypocrisy around, till a few years ago we argued that only the rich qualified for medicine, now we complain about getting vaccinated.
In a few days time, we'll start fussing about getting medicine and supplies to Haiti, I fail to see people's reasoning.

marcelle cini

Jan 16th 2010, 22:24

@H Micallef
'So every year there is a different virus, every single year. This year its name is H1N1. Simple'.

Then why was there the need of the seasonal flu vaccine if this year's virus was the H1N1?

Mark Piscopo

Jan 16th 2010, 19:08

Ten Things You're Not Supposed To Know About The Swine Flu Vaccines
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0icFxkJkDcc&feature=related

H Micallef

Jan 16th 2010, 18:38

@marcelle cini

Let me explain to you how this vaccine is the same as the seasonal. Every year, the flu virus changes itself. So every single year the manufacturers make the same vaccine BUT with a different "dead" virus. So every year there is a different virus, every single year. This year its name is H1N1. Simple.

There are a very few bad apples. Thank God. People are easily swayed by media. Take cigarettes, no doubt they are harmful. Are people smoking. Yes.

If I get an unlucky guy who got some rare neurological condition or dies....and I decide to blame the shot. TV, papers, youtube...no matter how wrong I am, it still scares people. It is impossible to know whose life is saved by vaccine...impossible to show anyone on TV who says that he would have died without vaccine

@J.Debono
How exactly do you know that the bad apples are saying "the truth"?? No proof No truth!!!!

H Micallef

Jan 16th 2010, 18:30

@Joe Grima
You are quoting what the journalist wrote and not necessarily what Dr Busuttil said.

Any suspiscious death linked to H1N1 or, even more seriously to the vaccine....gets a very detailed autopsy and samples are sent to the WHO.

So after the cause has already been determined by the pathologist as due to some unrelated medical problem.....the Maltese heath authorities have sent the necessary specimens abroad to BE CERTAIN that there is no link.

A Cassar

Jan 16th 2010, 18:24

@C. Farrugia

Yes, USUALLY vaccine companies don't advise vaccinating pregnant women. Why? Because they DON'T test it on pregnant women. For obvious ethical reasons.

Why this shift?? Why are WHO pushing so much?

Pregnant women have a VERY HIGH MORTALITY from H1N1. Around 1.4%. If a hundred maltese pregnant women get H1N1 one or two will die. So a decision has been made, as all ingredients used in vaccine have been shown to be safe in pregnancy. It is a balance, 1.4% mortality vs a vaccine which as far as we know causes to known harm.

Why is there all this "panic" by WHO on simple influenza.

1) Influenza doesn't kill.....but spreads very easily and effects millions a year (NO PANIC HERE)

2) Some animal influenzas (e.g. Avian)....don't spread between humans easily.....but whoever is unlucky to get it nearly always dies....a handful a year (NO PANIC HERE EITHER)

3) What if the easily speadible human flu virus morphs with a deadly animal flu??? It spreads to millions and kills most of them!!!(THIS IS WHERE THE PANIC COMES IN!!!!)

So basically we must stay vigilant and not take chances!

A Cassar

Jan 16th 2010, 18:11

@Gianni Xuereb

I'm afraid you are totally wrong Wolfgang Wodarg was appointed as an elected politician on the council of europe committee. NOT because of his qualification. PLEASE tell me what epidemiological or virological qualifications he had. A PhD???? He is a doctor that's all....one of millions world wide

Marc Gerard also NO PhD, he does have an MSc. All his claims were PROVEN wrong!!! He was asked to present his opinion in french court...but was proven WRONG

As they don't have a PhD...I am AS QUALIFIED as them both

Please Gianni Please.....do you know what qualifications mean??? Do you??

It is grossly irrelevant what you "think" about vaccinating children....you have to have proof not "think"

Let me explain to you why all this drive for mass vaccination. In mexico there was approx a 1% mortality with swine flu. If 100,000 got it in Malta 1000 would die. Thank God the virulence has changed and the mortality is much less. But the shift in virulence can happen very quick. WHO doesn't want a repeat of the 1926 pandemic with millions dead. Maybe you don't care....but I DO!!!

C. Farrugia

Jan 16th 2010, 17:16

@ D Grech

You have quoted the Who, fine with that.

But, I haven't made anything up! I have quoted the very MAKERS (Novartis) of the Vaccine; what I wrote as regards pregnant woman can be found through the link I attached. It is the product leaflet as submitted by Novartis itself.

Gianni Xuereb

Jan 16th 2010, 16:38

@Andrew Micallef:
"First of all people with opinions against the vaccine DO NOT have the same qualifications and knowledge!!" Hoi hoi wait a minute Andrew.....

1) Wolfgang Wodarg, head of health at the Council of Europe, accused the makers of flu drugs and vaccines of influencing the World Health Organisation's decision to declare a pandemic.
2) Marc Girard, a specialist in the side effects of drugs and a medical expert commissioned by French courts.. "A vaccine is being developed in conditions of amateurism such as I have never seen....."

Now if you think you are more qualified than Wolfgang Wodarg or Dr. Marc Girard.....

Personally I think the vaccine is relatively safe but personally I think the vaccine is useless:
1) In children under 2 years it has been shown that it is not effective at all - it's like injecting a placebo
2) in children over 2 years it is only effective in 30% of the cases
3) It has been shown that the virulence of this flu is less than that of seasonal flu. Why vaccine the whole population then ? Even healthy individuals die of the seasonal flu but WHO has never declared seasonal flu a pandemic.

Joe Grima

Jan 16th 2010, 14:40

The inquring magaistrate should seriously examine all the statements made by the Health authorities and all of the press releases and interviews given to radio and televsion stations by them. The magistrate should examine whether the advice given to the public by the Health Authrities was responsibly given or not. Dr Busuttil should be the last person to "ensure that the death of Mr Cachia and swine flu are not linked". His duty is to see whether they are or not, not to ensure that they are not.

marcelle cini

Jan 16th 2010, 14:32

With all due respect I fail to understand how this vaccine is the same as the seasonal flu one .
In almost every country a very small % of people have been vaccinated , and if I am correct the Polish government refused to buy the vaccines because the pharmaceutical companies are not liable to any damage that these vaccines may cause .

It is my understanding that if the majority of the medical experts around the globe agree on its safety than why were they not able to convince the people . Either there are alot of bad apples or could it be that many medical experts are themselves not convinced.

J.Debono

Jan 16th 2010, 14:23

@ Andrew Micallef.

My only concern is that these ' bad apples ' as you called them, are the only ones with the guts to voice out the truth.

D Grech

Jan 16th 2010, 13:38

@ J Debono - not all doctors are "experts" or have the same qualifications and knowledge. Believe reputable sources such as the WHO.

@ C. Farrugia - pregnant women are being urged to go get the vaccine because - and I quote from the WHO - "recent studies show that infected pregnant women have a 10 times higher chance to require hospitalization in intensive care units than infected persons in the general population. The benefits of vaccination far outweigh the risks." Another study has shown that around 8% of hospitalised pregnant women died (New England Journal of Medicine).

May I add that all doctors advising against this vaccine should have their medical licence revoked for not keeping up to date with the current facts.

Andrew Micallef

Jan 16th 2010, 13:16

@ J Debono
"We keep hearing on the local media that it is perfectly safe -so please someone give us the reason some professionals in the medical field are refusing it?"
I have yet to come upon an Epidemiologist, Virologist or an Influenza specialist that is against the vaccine. Out of millions of doctors worldwide, you WILL get the occasional person who forgoes all principles of EVIDENCE-BASED medicine. Every profession has its bad apples. And we have them too. Sorry!!

"Who are we to believe?! These are the opinions of experts against the opinions of other experts - people who have the same qualifications and knowledge."

First of all people with opinions against the vaccine DO NOT have the same qualifications and knowledge!!! What treatment you get when you are sick is decided by panels of experts who sift through all the evidence and make a decision. You have to believe the people whose ONLY JOB is to do survailance of infective disease and try to avoid deaths. In medicine you CANNOT HAVE AN OPINION unless you can prove it, and you have to publish your proof, Just like in court!

Mario Saliba

Jan 16th 2010, 13:10

Risk is a part of God's game, alike in men and nations. We are continuously playing the game. Is there something without a risk? Let's be logical. We cannot predict the future and in life there is nothing 100% certain. Only death is certain! When we don't know. We fear most those things which will not happen to us not those things which happened to us and we didn't even thought about them before.

Andrew Micallef

Jan 16th 2010, 13:09

@ J Debono
"Can the H1N1 vaccine act as a trigger to underlying medical conditions?"
60 years of flu vaccines and 50 million H1N1vaccines later makes this very unlikely, as deaths and serious disease in vaccinated people is LESS than unvaccinated people

"Does the medical community know enough about this vaccine? "
Even after 60 years there is NEVER ENOUGH knowledge. But we know that mortality risk is decreased if you take the vaccine. Statistics are taken every single day. So recommendations will change the very instance that any proof shows otherwise!

"Has it been sufficiently tested?"
The flu vaccine has been tested for 60 years. The virus inside is changed every year. As one has to develop the vaccine ASAP as a new virus emerges (and not wait for millions to die first) tests for side-effects are done for a short period. BUT once launched survailance continues.

A Cassar

Jan 16th 2010, 12:57

@ Anthony Dimech
First of all no one ever said that the patient KNEW he had an underlying condition!!! He obviously didn't know, and this was only diagnosed on autopsy

Secondly, IF the patient had known he had an underlying condition, he would have been recommended the vaccine even more strongly. Mortality from H1N1 is even higher in patients with underlying conditions!!!!

A Cassar

Jan 16th 2010, 12:53

@John Azzopardi
The article you linked to was published in August 2009. The H1N1 vaccine was made available in September!!

All the article says is that there were some concerns that a problem similar to 1974 might occur. Tests clearly showed that there were no such problem....and it was confirmed after 43 million have been vaccinated.

Please get your information from appropriate sources. Why don't you link to WHO statistics of H1N1 side-effect rates instead, and not to old "opinion" articles or YouTube!!!

Mark Piscopo

Jan 16th 2010, 12:50

ATT ALL BLOGGERS VERY IMPORTANT LINK!!

Please listen carefully to this link before taking any decision regarding the swine flu vaccine.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vqMK_yu8APg

Emanuel Farrugia

Jan 16th 2010, 12:05

I took the swine flu vaccine a week ago. The only symptoms that I felt were a minor soreness around the upper part of my arm where the needle was inserted. The soreness was gone after two days. But I also feel this even when I take the influwenza vaccine.

In the presence of all this doubt, I sincerely believe that people with common sense will take steps to BALANCE the reasoning between the imaginary risk that something MAY happen if they take the swine flu vaccine, with what will ACTUALLY happen if they were to catch the swine flu illness IF they do not take the vaccine.

I also balanced the actual fact that thousands of people had already taken the vaccine before me without suffering any major ill effects. The unfortunate incident of Mr. Cachia has yet to be proved. I hope that the Court and the Health Department will do their best and take all the steps necessary to establish with proof what actually happened to Mr. Cachia in the interest of society at large.

If the vaccine is suspended, could we have a situation where people with chronic illnesses will die without the vaccine ?

John Azzopardi

Jan 16th 2010, 11:57

TheH1N1 vaccine is not as safe is it is made out to be. http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/health/Swine_flu/article6797993.ece

J.Debono

Jan 16th 2010, 11:52

@ Emanuel Vella.
" We do not know what conditions we are suffering from until we get the symptoms." or perhaps until we take the H1N1 vaccine?

At this point I have to ask - Can the H1N1 vaccine act as a trigger to underlying medical conditions?

Does the medical community know enough about this vaccine?

Has it been sufficiently tested?

We have heard of doctors (both locally and internationally who have refused to take the vaccine. Why?!

We keep hearing on the local media that it is perfectly safe - so please someone give us the reason some professionals in the medical field are refusing it?

Who are we to believe?! These are the opinions of experts against the opinions of other experts - people who have the same qualifications and knowledge.

C. Farrugia

Jan 16th 2010, 11:51

As everybody knows, there is always an information leaflet inside boxes of medicinals, and many times advised to read them well BEFORE administering the said medicine. In this case, it seems that people are blindly presenting their arms to be injected with God knows what, without batting an eyelid.

The following URL links to the lealfet information for the Vaccine produced by Novatris (Sept 2009). This might not be the one being admistered here, but I believe that the contents would be similar to all H1N1 vaccines.

Amongst the LIST of possible side-effects, it clearly states that pregnant women should not be vaccinated unless clearly needed. And what's happening here, pregnant women are being URGED to go get the vaccine, and saying it is safe.

http://www.fluscam.com/Vaccine_Package_Inserts_files/Novartis_A-H1N1_2009_Monvalent_VaccinePackageInsert_BasedOn1980Approvalfor%20Fluvirin_UCM182242.pdf

To Clayton's parents..my heart goes out to you, and may Time and well-meaning relatives and friends, help you to somewhat try to live through this nightmare.

M. Caruana

Jan 16th 2010, 11:48

The Magistrate entrusted with the investigation must ensure that the facts come out and that the investgation is concluded in the shortest time possible. The experts appointed by he Court to help it in establishing the facts must be unequivocal in their evaluations and findings. This is being stated to exclude any suspicion of omerta` in these very serious cases.

H Zammit

Jan 16th 2010, 11:30

It was quoted that the Public Health director general Ray Busuttil stated that it was the division's duty and responsibility to ensure the two are not linked, referring to the cause of death and the vaccine. I am not a doctor and I don't want to enter into the merits of whether one should take the vaccine or not, but I don't agree with Dr Busuttil, if he was quoted correctly. The division's duty and responsibility is to ensure the good health of the population and I suggest he should wait for the results of the autopsy rather than trying to influence the said results. Just for ethical reasons you know!!

Condolences to the family as we keep you in our prayers.

cdelia

Jan 16th 2010, 10:46

the meaning of underlying medical condition is when someone has not yet discovered the ailment so the person and the family are not aware yet but never the less its there undisco vered

Emmanuel Vella

Jan 16th 2010, 09:37

Simple Mr. Dimech. He was given the vaccine because probably he did not know that he could be having an underlying medical condition. I might have a tumor growing in me and I do not know yet! We all do not know what condition we are suffering from until we get the symptoms.

Criss Camilleri

Jan 16th 2010, 07:58

First, my deepest condolences to the Cachia family. My wife and I KNOW what it means to lose a child, and it is really sad that a child should 'go' before the parents.

Two; Were there any other 'deaths', around the World, which were connected to this Vaccine?

Again, Mr & Mrs Cachia, please do believeme when I tell you; ' We know what you are going through' and no WORDS from ANYONE can console you. Our dear Daughter, died two years ago, amd I still cannot find anyone to console me.

A. Borg

Jan 16th 2010, 07:52

If he had an "underlying medical condition" then why was he given the vaccine?

A. Borg

Jan 16th 2010, 07:46

Whom we're going to believe?
He was described by his parents as perfectly healthy and now the health authorities, said that he had an "underlying medical condition".