Updated: Arrests after big Ecstasy find

Jesmond Micallef

Jan 14th 2010, 20:11

Dear Mr. Jonathan Farrugia,

May I quote once again : "If top quality drugs were produced and monitored then the so called junk would be eradicated."

Thats the whole point. !! Would I buy Counterfeit Asperin from a non authorised dealer or pharmacy ? NO WAY, I wouldn't risk it. Why should a drug user risk his own health by buying something which is not legal ? He or she does not know from where that substance originates or comes from. !!

Thats how this "Unfortunate Legislation" works !!!

In relation to pills, Drug users do not know what they are swallowing. The same goes to powered narcotics. I have even read that even Caustic Soda based detergents are mixed with the otherwise pure narcotic powder. I do not have the slightest interest in the personal use or even to sell or buy such stuff. Would I risk it, NEVER., NEVER and NEVER indeed.

Going back to the money argument, people should get value for the money they spend. Some part of this money is fed back into society for the common good, its called Taxes.

There are indeed people not interested in the common good, but their own good.

Jesmond Micallef

Jan 14th 2010, 19:27

Actually, Mr. Jonathan Farrugia.

May I quote you once again : "People like you seem to think all drug users are thieving barbarians who would sell their child for their next hit and have no self respect."

I certainly DO NOT SEEM to think so.

Jonathan Farrugia

Jan 14th 2010, 18:21

@ Jesmond Micallef

Your points regarding drug quality mirror the opinions of many a drug user. Unfortunately legislation does not allow this. If top quality drugs were produced and monitored then the so called junk would be eradicated.

People like you seem to think all drug users are thieving barbarians who would sell their child for their next hit and have no self respect. It is also an extremely sad state of affairs that in 2010 people of a so called civilized country have such limited understanding about drugs.

Jesmond Micallef

Jan 14th 2010, 16:57

And Jesmond Micallef comments again !!

I do take the occasional Asperin when a headache calls for it. I do take Antibiotics when my doctor prescribes such. I do not take ecstasy or any other "SELF PRESCRIBED JUNK" people are talking about here. I contribute to Amnesty International and WWF on a yearly subscription basis. The Money people spend on such "Junk" can be redistributed to those worthy causes, rather then feeding oneself on something with "unknown" contents.

Question : DO PEOPLE KNOW WHAT THEY ARE SWALLOWING ? DO THEY KNOW WHAT THEY HAVE JUST BOUGHT WITH THEIR OWN MONEY ? It could easily be compacted dust in the form of a pill, as far as I'm concerned. Do the people selling such junk declare their income for taxation purposes ? Are these pills produced in a CLEAN ROOM ENVIRONMENT, as called for in the Pharma industry ?

I will not make the world right, but in the meantime, unfortunately drug users continue to play with their own lives, make other people rich, and pay taxes that these same rich people do not pay.

Something illegal, has indeed so much to it......................!!!!!

Paul Galea

Jan 14th 2010, 16:27

Mr Korsten, may I point out once again, there are quite a few people in the area concerned, in particular kids. So yes, they have to ensure the safety of the people at large. It's a bit naive to presume that since tyres are close to the ground so are the bullets. So are kids for that matter!!!

Peter Korsten

Jan 14th 2010, 13:11

"Shots were fired at the tyres of the vehicles by police. Can the police garantee that whilst firing these shots there was no danger to the public at large?"

The tyres of a car are usually on the ground, so unless the car was flying at the time, the bullets should go into the ground as well.

B Galea

Jan 14th 2010, 11:29

@A Mallia - point taken, although seeing as the article (and Jesmond Micallef's comment) is about ecstasy, I think it's a valid point to state the facts i.e. ecstasy is not an addictive drug, and the 'only' drugs which are likely to lead to a life of crime in order to fund addiction are 1. Heroin 2. Crack cocaine 3. Crystal Meth 4. 'Regular' cocaine

@Laurence Schembri - you clearly have nothing to add to the debate. I don't think my point is 'childish' - people argue that drugs should be kept illegal because they are dangerous, and I simply pointed out that it's an incoherent argument, since many other dangerous activities are sanctioned by the government. Like I said, there are valid arguments against drug legalisation, but the 'protection from harm' one isn't one of them.

Most 'designer drugs' were first created by governments and pharmaceutical companies anyway. Ecstasy was developed by Merck as a diet pill and Nazi soldiers were pumped full of metamphetamines (i.e. crystal meth) to keep fighting for longer, etc.

The 'harm' argument is a non sequitur, since governments have no problem with harming their citizens when it suits.

r.borg

Jan 14th 2010, 10:46

one thing, from many, which is very worrying is that there is a lot of DEMAND for these things. surely. people want these drugs, this is very preoccupying. the stash of 18,000 pills was going to be sold to people. imagine the scenario where these drugs are sold one by one. that would mean that at least 18, 000 people in our society want these drugs. and this is only one case. apart from mentioning the 3kilos cocaine from another case, etc etc. that''s a thought, huh?

laurence schembri

Jan 14th 2010, 08:36

@ jonathan farrugia, b galea
A futile argument. drugs are drugs in any form, even prescribed drugs can be dangerous at times, so please stop the childish comments.

A. Mallia

Jan 13th 2010, 20:46

@B. Galea - As Jesmond Micallef was probably referring to drugs in general, my response to him was - also I didn't state as much - related to drug addiction in general too, which (unless one is filthy rich) can only be funded by crime, be it theft, drug dealing or whatever.

Any further comment is superfluous.

Paul Galea

Jan 13th 2010, 16:43

Shots were fired at the tyres of the vehicles by police. Can the police garantee that whilst firing these shots there was no danger to the public at large? The area concerned has a large football school next to it with kids constantly waiting for their parents to pick them up. Opposite there are shops and in between a major road. Not to mention the gas man selling in the car park itself. Do the police imagine themselves to be Starsky and Hutch firing guns in a place like this? What if a stray bullet hit the wrong target?

jonathan farrugia

Jan 13th 2010, 15:23

I'd like to see the test results for these so called 18,000 ecstasy. MDMA the chemical that should be found in ecstasy has been unavailable in urope for the best part of a year now.

@ Laurence Schembri

so can cabbage

B Galea

Jan 13th 2010, 15:14

@ Miguel Micallef - true, although certain studies point towards a slight psychological addiction towards cannabis amongst very heavy users. I do, however, agree with you - calling cannabis a drug is misleading and misinformed. Making it illegal is illogical - we are essentially telling people that nature (it is, after all, a plant) is against the law.

@Laurence Schembri - yes, it can kill, but as Dr Nutt pointed out, so can horse riding (and horse riding is statistically more likely to lead to injury or death than ecstasy use). Society has no problem with dangerous activities (not only alcohol or tobacco - you can go sky diving, bull fighting, base jumping, hunting, have unprotected sex...the list of dangerous, possibly fatal activities sanctioned by government is virtually endless), so justifying drug prohibition on safety grounds is shaky.

I myself am as yet undecided on where I stand on the 'war on drugs'. What I AM sure of is that the criminalisation of drug users has been proven to be a futile (and often damaging) exercise - Scandinavian models of assistance to drug addicts have had a much more positive effect.

laurence schembri

Jan 13th 2010, 12:53

@ B. Galea
Maybe it`s not addictive, but it can kill.

Miguel Micallef

Jan 13th 2010, 12:49

@ B Galea

Most of what you said is 100% correct, however a slight correction : Cannabis is not addictive, its the tobacco used with it to roll a joint that's addictive (and that, in fact, is responsible for the damages usually quoted by anti drug agencies). If used without tobacco, and not smoked (ingested or vaporized) marijuana is totally safe, no damage done, and non addictive.

To bring back reality : Cannabis is a HERB. Not a drug in that sense. Never was, never will be. Just like oregano, or thyme, or basil. Take a look in your kitchen you'll find more.

B Galea

Jan 13th 2010, 11:01

@ A Mallia

Ecstasy is not addictive, and the likelihood of anyone committing a crime in order to get a pill is miniscule. Ecstasy, by the way, is one of the drugs Dr David Nutt (the former Chair of the UK's Advisory Council on the Misuse of Drugs (ACMD)) identified as being less harmful, physiologically, dependence-wise and socially, than both tobacco and alcohol. Dr Nutt was sacked by the minister, to general outrage.

I'm not out to defend ecstasy or its use, but am simply trying to establish some facts. It's much easier for governments to lump all illegal substances into one basket labelled 'LETHAL AND DANGEROUS', but that does the truth - and all free-thinking individuals - a disservice. Some drugs are more harmful than others: heroin is worse than cocaine which is worse than alcohol which is worse than ecstasy. Cannabis is more addictive than ecstasy, but less addictive than both alcohol and tobacco.

There may well be good reasons for outlawing one and not the other, but let's not depict the issue as a purely black-and-white one.

Jesmond Micallef

Jan 12th 2010, 22:28

Paul, thank you for appreciating my views.

Indeed, society is far from ideal, otherwise there would not be the need for a Police Corps, in the first place. I just read, think and "helplessly" comment. !!! Think of it as somebody exposing his own self so that maybe, by means of some "lightning strike", a person reflects on what I have just written. I WILL NEVER CHANGE THE WORLD, but in the meantime, as long as I'm still breathing, my "crusade" continues.

Indeed, people do read the news here and I do take full advantage of that !!

Michele Agius

Jan 12th 2010, 22:11

Good to know they have caught them, though I was present there yesterday, with a group of friends and I must tell you that it wasn't handled as said. Out of the blue an undercover police man just started shooting just a few steps away from us. Also to note that a Gas truck was only a few meters away, and a miss shot may have caused a huge explosion! As they didn't identify themselves as police men (since they were undercover) my friends and I were extremely shocked and frightened as we thought it was some mad person and started panicking and ran away!
Also to note that the crash was caused by a van of the police, which instead of blocking the criminals car, crashed into an innocent man's car! Its a shame how everything gets covered up in the news, while the public just see the good part of it. Especially for us bystanders who got a huge shock and didn't even receive an apology from the police.

A.D'Amico

Jan 12th 2010, 21:04

@Anthony Pace Gouder

iringrazja il-mulej li qed jinqabdu dawn lammonti kbar flok tmaqdar...mhux ghax mandekx ragun imma thanks god inqabdu dawn...xejn xejn kulhadd jibda joqod iktar attent ax 18000 mhumiex al uzu personali zgur...dawn setaw jispicaw iddur maz zghazgh

proset lil korrp tal puluzija tax xoghol taghom

Roderick Micallef

Jan 12th 2010, 20:57

I always tend to look at things the simple way, when it comes to Drugs or as many like to call it 'The War on Drugs' I guess in Malta it's not any different than any other country especially when compared to EU countries.
The so called war on drugs is obviously NOT being won as opposed to what the Authorities try to make us believe, I know this by just looking at the frequency and quantities of drug amounts caught.
From time to time the figures are exploding, why? It's simple, if there is demand for drugs or for anything else really then some one WILL supply it, in a way or another even if it's highly risky. In other words this is like a lost battle, because it's not a battle at all.
Our prisoners which the majority have all drug related crimes are not being rehabilitated, there is no parole system setup in Malta, and the age of drug addicts, basically teenagers hooked up on powerful drugs like heroin is decreasing.
We are getting to a point where teen aged junkies go straight to the needle before even doing practically anything else!

A. Mallia

Jan 12th 2010, 20:55

@ Jesmond Micallef - "Why should one work and spend the hard earned money on such filth?"

Has it crossed your mind for one moment that drug habits are probably completely supported by crime (theft, etc)? Maybe the minister concerned would care to supply the public with statistics regarding theft, etc. Alternatively, maybe The Times would care to write / print an investigative article themselves. (Many would probably be surprised to find out that what they thought was a reasonably safe and crime-free neighbourhood is anything but, and had a history of unpublicised burglaries.)

marthese mussett

Jan 12th 2010, 20:41

Jiena nghaddi minn dal post KULJUM biex inwassal lit tifel liskola,bil mixi,u b pushchair.U dawn id drogi kollha taht imnehirna,vicin ta xi hamest ikejjel.Il pulizija bhalma qal Jesmond Micallef,ghandhom hafna ma xhiex ihabbtu wicchom,xoghol iebes u haqqhom prosit ta din il qabda.Issa nispera li ssir gustizzja fil qorti.Nistennew u nittamaw....

Paul Smith

Jan 12th 2010, 19:50

Jesmond, you make some very valid good points. I dont know about now, but around 11 years ago ectasy was very cheap and from what i am aware - now it is even cheaper. less than euro 5.00 per tablet.

any how, does anyone know where i can buy a magic wand to cure society of it's i'lls, Jesmond?

Jesmond Micallef

Jan 12th 2010, 18:41

Well done to the Police Force. Good to see that nobody was hurt. I did comment recently on the occupational hazards these professionals face when on duty !!

With regards to comments relating to some form of escapism, well there might be some truth in that, but then again escapism seems to be paramount in ALL societies, today and very much so in the past !!

Anyway, my argument here is that "PEOPLE NEED MONEY TO BUY SUCH STUFF". Why should one work and spend the hard earned money on such filth, when there are alternative ways of dealing with so called "MODERN LIFE". I mention the "Fitness Centre" culture, indeed a good way of channeling ones emotions. What about other Social Activities, where one can offer such money to invite someone for lunch or an evening dinner.!! What about inviting those poor immigrants on the island for a social evening ?? Befriend them and support their integration, support them learning the Maltese Language and Culture.

With respect to those selling such stuff, well, do not expect any pity from my behalf. You make profit out of the situation. !! You are PREDATORS, nothing else !!!

Paul Smith

Jan 12th 2010, 17:59

Vincent Galea
dont worry my friend - as we head down the slippery slope of Hubbert's curve http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hubbert_curve
You may well live to see what life will be like without those instant gratifications - i know i will.

Vincent Galea

Jan 12th 2010, 17:40

Paul Smith.
One cannot help but wonder what would happen if all theatres, television stations, bars and discos, computers and i-Pods were to shut down for one day ? How would people fare ? Would they fall apart ? To-day when people walk and jog cell phones and i-Pods accompany them. All filtering out reality.
Most of our supposed sources of happiness are a subtle form of escapism.
We have become one of the most hedonistic societies in history.
Technology has eroded our tolerance for delay. No one is willing to wait to anything.. What the addict is seeking are 2 things : pleasure and quickly.
Pursuit of pleasure and instant gratification.
We have lost the ability to choose and therefore losing the uniqueness of being a human being, and robs one the dignity of a human being.

" I am my choices ".

Paul Smith

Jan 12th 2010, 15:48

Vincent Galea
i know i will get flamed for this, but here it goes - maybe just maybe people are trying to occasionally escape reality? We all live in divided societies, rich, poor, middle Class (if one exists anymore) working class, with the majority working class/middle class paying the majority of tax, more than the rich pay as they are a minority. Not everyone can be rich, not everyones aspirations are met in life. From reading the TOM these last few years, it would seem that life has become much more difficult for the Maltese and all of us around the world - high energy prices, high food prices, more expensive consumer items which one has to take on bank debt or bank credit to afford - higher unemployment - less open space and tranquility due to over development - over population which can strangle the soul - so people seek escapism and the temporary high that relives this stress - right or wrong? Everyone to there own - no one owns anyone and there is no higher law than the creator if one exists?

Anthony Pace Gouder

Jan 12th 2010, 15:40

Allajbierek, x'kummerc ghaddej !. Kulljum qed nisimghaw bi'traffikanti ta ' droga , ta'kuntrabandu , traffikanti ta' emigranti illegali etc.. Dan li jinqabad nahseb li huwa persentagg ferm zghir . Jidher li Il-mistjier qed jaqbad gmielu .
Ufficjalment kien gie ddikjarat li minn CERTI portijiet ,f'dawn il gzejjer , ma jsir l-ebda kontroll fuq x'jidhol u johrog mill-pajjiz ! Din x'serjeta hi?
Alla jaf x'inhu ghaddej ! Tassew inkwetanti.

Vincent Galea

Jan 12th 2010, 15:03

We hear so much about drugs ecstasy, coke, LSD . Ecstasy pills. Everyday. The word addiction has lost its meaning. Hey ! is everyone addicted ?
Guys open your eyes and have a look in the mirror.

IT doesn't have to be that wrong.