Girls, 13, to be charged with defiling student

Marianna Galea Xuereb

Jan 4th 2010, 16:48

This is a case of something much worse than regular bullying or a sexual offence. This is clearly a case of pure sadism. I hope the courts dish out an exemplary sentence if the accused are found guilty and not excuse monsters just because they are technically minors.

Marianna Galea Xuereb

Jan 4th 2010, 16:35

Very shocking and sad indeed! But then again, what can one expect out of a country hell bent on integrating each and every child into mainstream education at all costs? If the local church and education authorities have been preaching ad nausium about tolerance and giving children as well as adults who misbehave/commit crimes/ “make a mistake”/ abuse the welfare system a second or rather umpteenth chance, is it any wonder that we get these kind of abuses committed by minors?
Moreover, incidents such as these are bound to increase in frequency as well as in level of violence now that the powers that be have decided to do away with streaming at primary and secondary school level and with proper exams worthy of the name at age 10-11.

C.Cassar

Dec 31st 2009, 12:36

One thing that i question about this incident is the fact that it was reported one whole month after it happened and on the front page on the Sunday following Christmas. I wonder what is the hidden agenda here, and whose is it.
It is a pity that this story throws a bad light on the school because in actual fact it is a very good school with a very hard working head of school and staff. Students achieve very good results, a very high percentage move on to Sixth Form, and involve themselves in the many projects and initiatives that teachers and the head of school organise. This one off incident should not be allowed to throw a bad light on an otherwise excellent school. As they say, one swallow does not make a summer.

Miguel Micallef

Dec 30th 2009, 18:26

Actually YOU are doing that. I'm focusing on the context, and totally ignoring the current case. In fact it's me who's saying 'imagine if.....' instead of what really happened. On the other hand, you are focusing on this case only, and in turn, since you have no reply to my question, accuse me of focusing on this case. I guess this settles it :)

Manuel Mangani

Dec 30th 2009, 17:48

@Miguel For the last time: you're focussing on the single incident and ignoring the context.

Miguel Micallef

Dec 30th 2009, 16:24

@Manuel MAngani

Are you saying that if a guy did this to a girl, he would not be prosecuted for sexual abuse? It would just be bullying? I repeat, you are using the term bullying becasue it was girl on girl action, had it been boy on girl it would be called rape instead. And this is the danger of the sex offender list I have been talking about.

People will end up in there for reasons other than sex offences.

Manuel Mangani

Dec 30th 2009, 14:07

@Miguel Micallef
"You assume the issue is not sexual, because it is all girls involved. Try putting something up a 13 yr old girls' behind if you are a male, then good luck trying to explain to the judge how that isn't sexual :)''

You are the one who is assuming that I am basing my judgment on the gender of the people involved. They could have been three schoolboys; given the circumstances of the case as reported by the Times - a year long harassment, which only recently taken this ugly turn - all this points in the direction of a very serious case of bullying.

Paul Camilleri

Dec 30th 2009, 13:47

@ Jack Camilleri & F.Gatt

Tajba din... Mela jekk hu minnu dak li qedghin tghidu, l-ghallliema ghandhom jkunu aktar attenti regward dak li jsir fl-iskola le? Sorry imma hija haga tal misthija!

@ Joe Genovese

MId dehra thobb hafna lil GHAWDEX! Hlief hsiebek tmaqdar u tghid kontra Ghawdex u l-Ghawdxin ma tafx inti. Ma tafx tikkritika bis sens, u bil fors mintiex!!! Jekk vera qed tghix f Malta, nahseb jien tkun hafna aktar konxju li f'Malta hemm izjed incidenti gravi bhal dan.

Miguel Micallef

Dec 30th 2009, 09:56

@Manuel Mangani

"Some people have sex on the brain, and I'm not talking about those 2 13-year olds who allegedly commiited this act, but about a considerable number of posters. The issue is not sexual assault, but bullying."

You assume the issue is not sexual, because it is all girls involved. Try putting something up a 13 yr old girls' behind if you are a male, then good luck trying to explain to the judge how that isn't sexual :)

Marton Saliba

Dec 29th 2009, 23:35

ooh, edgy comment list,

i'm afraid that even these very writings will be politically incorrect.

Manuel Mangani

Dec 29th 2009, 23:23

Young teenagers pulling down a schoolmates's panties for a joke is not in itself anything very serious. It's when a particular girl is singled out, when she's subjected to that treatment for a long time, and when the perpetartors think up nasty and painful variations on the theme that it becomes highly preoccupying. Unfortuantely, going by news reports, that appears to have been the case.

A.Galea

Dec 29th 2009, 23:12

They weren t taught the right values...PUNTO E BASTA. That s what s missing here. Their parents let them do and dress whatever they want. I m 6 yrs older than them so their isn t such a great gab. However everyone my age notices that these kids are worse than the previous generation. What s happening? I had bullies of my age...they would push you, act like true cats and pull you hair, but never, and i say NEVER pull down your pants. I say, OMG, are these worse than those bullies we had at my age? Btw, they had also family problems.

This is ridiculous.

N. Aquilina

Dec 29th 2009, 23:04

@ T. Gauci re: your comment "this is Europe and not Iran where people are getting killed for voicing their opinions"
Likewise I say this is Europe and not Iran. And any female can wear anything that takes her fancy without being thought of (by dirty minded people) as "asking for it"
R. Gatt/A.Fiorentino/Victor Pulis understood quite well. You really did imply that all blame lay on any victim who wore indecent clothes.
So @T Gauci Don't forget to cover your upper body on the beach next year because someone might think you are "asking for it!" LOL!

h bonnici

Dec 29th 2009, 22:35

this disgusts me and you can all blame the parents or the teachers.... when i was young even at school i was under my parents care if i did wrong my parents knew about it and i paid for it!!! but at 13 i knew wht was right or wrong and these children did too!!!!! they allegedly set out to hurt someone and they achieved that!

Mark Galea

Dec 29th 2009, 22:18

lis-sur Jack Camilleri
Habib tieghi ... il-madam ghandha bzonn izzomm iktar dixxiplina ... dak kollox ... tahsibx li hadd ma jaf x'inhu jigri f'dik l-iskola ...

F Gatt

Dec 29th 2009, 21:56

@Paul Camilleri

For your information it-teachers li jkunu t-Tamarisk jiehdu il-kafe m'humiex mill-iskola Agius de Soldanis!!!! Ahjar ticcekkja qabel ma tfajjar l-akkuzi!!!!

Alison Natalie Keeler

Dec 29th 2009, 21:51

Words fail me, to read of this deep and sick abuse.

Why would you want to do this to a fellow human being?

And what on earth is the police comment about pulling underwear down being 'normal....' - have Social Services and all other Ministries or Departments been involved? And if not why not. Explicit sexual behaviour often stems from those being sexually abused themselves.

Those girls knew what they were doing was (a) wrong and (b) bullying. Are they also victims?

God help us if this what the children are doing to each other.

And more so, if as adults, we look the other way.

A. Tabone

Dec 29th 2009, 21:50

The perpetrators need to be punished for sure, but what about the persons who were supposed to prevent such abuse from happening?

This is a school we are talking about. That is where the incident happened. The heads of the school need to see why were the students allowed in an empty classroom during the break? An adult needs to be charged with negligence here. A school must guarantee the safety and supervision of the students at all times, from the moment the student enters the building, to the moment he/she exits the building. How they do that it's part of their job, and it's their problem.

T.gauci

Dec 29th 2009, 20:57

@R Gatt "I would pick you up and make you explain" i have the freedom of speech. this is Europe and not Iran where people are getting killed for voicing their opinions. if i were you i will take a look at what i wrote before posting prejudice comments on people who i don't even know. @Michelle Wood Dear Michelle, i thought women have equal rights to men so if you think it's sexist then get used to it. @a.fiorentino, victor pulis i am not condoning neither am i praising such assaults, generally speaking. this case is irrelevant.

Charles Sammut

Dec 29th 2009, 18:43

I cannot believe that someone like Mr Genovese would use this case of sexual abuse by two minors to indict the whole island of Gozo.. This is like saying that Maltese mothers just do not know how to bring up their children because years ago a certain Carmena Abdilla murdered her son Toninu..I never realised that a 2 mile channel of water separating the two islands had such an impact. With so many Maltese getting Gozo residence IDs I wonder why they bother.

A.Galea

Dec 29th 2009, 17:10

First of all, Mr Joe Genovese, let me tell you that these things don t happen only in Gozo. I don t care if you are Maltese, or if you re Gorizan. Malta has its own crimes (let me remember you of that bomb last week). Second of all, you brought only your opinion of Gozo and not of this drammatic incident.
I used to go to the same school a while ago..where is the supervision we once had?? We couldn t even stay in class in the break or in our P.E lessons unless it was raining! What happened to that severity which was still respected by most of the students? 2 teachers used to supervise every corridor and when the breaks starts, they used to check if there was anyone in the class.
Maybe it s also the fault of the parents, where they have the RESPONSABILITY to teach their children what is good and what is wrong. They are the roots of providing a good citizen.
If guilty, these 2 girls, together with their parents need a good smacking.

Manuel Mangani

Dec 29th 2009, 16:47

Some people have sex on the brain, and I'm not talking about those 2 13-year olds who allegedly commiited this act, but about a considerable number of posters. The issue is not sexual assault, but bullying. The sexual element is only by the by.

Joe Genovese

Dec 29th 2009, 15:45

I've ceased to be amazed at what comes out of Gozo a long time ago.

Gozo, that's where two men lay in wait, under cover of darkness, and popped off their woman victim for handing out parking tickets. And then sped off on a 'bike.

Two men lying in wait for a woman near a clump of trees in the night.

That must be a World-Wide First in the annals of crime.

Eddie Attard, where are you?

If someone can fool most of the people most of the time, I know whom and where to put my money on.

T. Muscat

Dec 29th 2009, 14:22

I would like to point out as a mother of a student there .Why are there no aids (school guards)?Why are class rooms left open so students can get into them with no adult supervision? Why are there no school aids stationed out side the bathrooms?The female teachers do not show any good role modeling them selves with wearing white pants that are see through and wearing a thong. Students can not be blamed for acting sexy when the teachers them selves show off too much skin in the summer months.30 years ago when I was in school other girls did pull on each others pants and pulling on each others bra straps and a big deal was not made.My feelings are the more you say ,the more they will do. I blame the lack of supervision in that school.Also the fact that there is nothing for these kids to do when there are free lessons.People complain that there is no jobs here in Gozo. I know many woman who would not mind getting paid to sit out side a bathroom or sitting in a class room keeping an eye on kids when then have free lessons.

Joseph Schembri

Dec 29th 2009, 12:24

... but you see, some teachers are to blame. Some teachers subscribe to all the nonsense about not damaging children's delicate psyche by good old fashioned discipline which has served us well for thousands of years. Some parents are like that too. So today's children are growing up in a world where they know that they are protected from any retribution for their wickedness. There are even government agencies now whose employees are payed to molly coddle all children to 'protect' them from abuse (read discipline). Children are so aware of their rights nowadays that they will sometimes abuse those rights to harm their elders. Read how two schoolgirls killed a man here: http://malta-exposed.blogspot.com/2009/12/pedo-kill-him.html

Pule' Carmel

Dec 29th 2009, 12:12

School subjects are becoming less and less attractive than sex in our society due to the modern media and the better communications with countries which are more liberal in their outlook and family structure.
At the age of 13 , almost 60 years ago, all we did was to Play, Swim, Climb trees and run about adventerous sites , make our own toys and compete in home made carts. My wife who was a nurse visiting various homes circa 1980 1994 was surprised at the videos children were allowed to see, whereby when pointed out the parents often said, " They have to learn someday".
All this reminds me of a song " You cannot keep them on the farm , once they see Paris."
I doubt if teaching childern too early about sex keeps them off being interested in practicing it even at a level of pulling down fellow students' panties as a joke.

J.Scerri

Dec 29th 2009, 12:02

Apart that this case is enough disgusting that doesn't even deserve a comment (we are really hitting the bottom very hard, if two 13-year old GIRLS try to abuse from another 13 y.o.) Now what's next, babies hitting themselves in the cot with a screwdriver!!!

But more disgusting are some comments below that in a way try to put all the blame on the school & on their Teachers.

I think that the main Guilty for today's Teenagers' behaviour is their parents' because they lack in Discipline & want the teachers to do the dirty work they should do. Maybe they don't have the guts & time to do it (because most of them are more keen to watch a soccer game on TV or in the females' case, gossip on their neighbours). It's easy to blame others for tasks they should carry but they miserabely fail to do.

Hopefully now there won't be some genius around who wants to blame the teachers even for all these teenage pregnancies because perhaps they haven't explained well that process!!!

By saying that I want to make it clear I'm not a teacher but sometimes people tend to insult other similar's intelligence.

Joseph Schembri

Dec 29th 2009, 10:59

Oh, it has just occurred to me that these two bullies if found guilty will be placed in the newly proposed sex offenders register. But had they flayed her alive, torn her limbs apart... no mention in any register.

That is one of the reasons for which I am against a sex register. My experience with government-mandated data collection (and correction) unfortunately compels me to believe that accuracy and timeliness are mutually exclusive. Considering that I regularly get junk mail that is completely inappropriate for my age and interests, I don't think it's any better in the private sector.

Most folks just don't seem to grasp that the purpose of these databases is not to solve problems, but to provide an unquestionable authority (in the literal sense) which may be cited by those who can't be bothered to think.

Michelle Wood

Dec 29th 2009, 10:33

@T Gauci
It's easy to pass sexist comments when hiding behind an initial isn't it...
There are many T Gauci's in Malta...you wouldn't want all of them tagged with your comments?

Anthony Pace Gouder

Dec 29th 2009, 10:25

Jekk dana kollhu li huwa raportat hawn jigi konfermat , ghandna biex verament nikwetaw kif il-MORALITA WAQAT DAQSTANT FIL-BAXX !

Sena twila bizzejjed , u c-CAJTA (?) baqat sejra . Din serjeta ta' TMEXXIJA FI SKOLA PUBBLIKA ? L' ankas nista nemmen !

Joseph Schembri

Dec 29th 2009, 10:23

The fuss is being made because the word defilement is mentioned and sexual parts are involved. There would have been much less fuss had the two alleged criminal bullies bashed her face in... because the face is not a sexual part of the body.

This is the result of a prudish society where violence, even horrible violence is OK but a 60 year old man was recently thrown in prison because he 'defiled' a 17 year old male prostitute.

Another recent case involved a man dragged to court because he had 'defiled' his 4 year old son... because the little boy... wait for it... had SEEN his father's willy! Had the father beaten the boy black and blue no such fuss would have been made I am sure.

Mark Galea

Dec 29th 2009, 09:54

@M. DeBono
My friend, discipline in that school has gone to a record low in the last years ...

vania lamanna

Dec 29th 2009, 09:53

13 year olds sodomizing.What is the world coming to? wonder what will happen to them if they are guilty, a suspension, a fine?

Andrei Azzopardi

Dec 29th 2009, 09:15

So now we have this case. Only when things like these happen do we take action? When I was still at school, I remember cases worse than this and still these things continue to happen.

Bullying here in Malta is very commonplace. We cannot keep sending our children to school while also knowing that your child is being bullied. Help from the anti-bullying team is also very limited.

Then there is also discrimination, a case where a child is bullied by another child with an LSA, the former is blamed and has to suffer, while the latter kept in the class harassing others. If the child is 'not stable' why keep him/her in the school? Why is disability only determined if it is visible!? There are also other disabilities that are not seen!

I totally agree with this family not to send the child to school before things change, I would do the same. I hope this incident does not inflict any psychological damage on the girl.

R Gatt

Dec 29th 2009, 09:06

@ T Gauci - if I was the authority, I would pick you up and make you explain as your comment has to be taken seriously. Comments like your's are just irresponsible.

Joe E Galea

Dec 29th 2009, 08:23

The underlying problem of all this is the decaying society we live in. This decaying society is fuelled by a weak law system in which the criminals are almost gratified and the victims punished.

What about starting using the law: eye for an eye, tooth for a tooth...to start with. I assure you that in 1 year there will be a dramtic drop in criminal acts.

Moreover, all these rights for children is just crap. Children should have their basic rights yes but not rights to offend, disrespect, etc and then they are untouchable. Children should be brought up in discipline and reminded that they have duties like studying, respecting authorities, etc.

Joe E Galea

Dec 29th 2009, 08:12

These girls, if guilty, are our future criminals. Their mischief must not go unnoticed. Justice have to be done.

At this point in time zero tolerance for criminal activity should be adopted and early signs of it must be eradicated. Otherwise our society will continue to deteriorate as it already happened in other countries where they kill and torture and do any other kind of abuse just for pure personal entertainment.

Ramon Casha

Dec 29th 2009, 07:03

Oh, and although this is besides the point, technically the age of consent in Malta is 12. That is the age below which it is illegal to have any kind of sexual contact with a child. A different law makes it illegal to "defile" a minor. The law defines a minor as anyone below 18, but does not define what "defile" means, so basically it's up to the judge in question. If the judge decides that kissing defiles a person, then an 18 year old kissing his/her 17 year old boyfriend/girlfriend is a criminal.

Ramon Casha

Dec 29th 2009, 07:00

The issue here is not of defilement. The issue is BULLYING. Would it have been so much better if she had been held down while the others kick her face in instead? Bullying in schools has been ignored for so long that society generally ignores it. It is a traumatising experience because generally the bullies keep targeting the same few individuals, ganging up on them when they're alone. Being a victim of bullying year in, year out for one's entire childhood and adolescence can do untold harm to a person. The more it is ignored, the worse it will get. In the UK, children have been murdered by other children. The problem here needs to be stopped before it gets to that stage. It's not far off as it is.

The charge should be one of assault. Lessons need to be taught here - the alleged attackers need to learn that their behaviour is going to land them in prison, and the victims of bullying must be shown that they shouldn't have to put up with it - that the school will take their case seriously.

a.fiorentino

Dec 29th 2009, 05:13

@T.Gauci.
quote 'some girls ask for it'
are you for real ? you are condoning sexual criminal acts just because they are dressed indecent !!!! hallina trid !!!!
If a person cant control his urges then he should lock himself away.

T.gauci

Dec 29th 2009, 03:43

@N.Aquilina

if they don't ask for it then why do they pose half naked on social networking sites such as facebook and hi5 ? they are basically inviting the snake to bite them. jahasra ux innocenti dawn il-gazaza jonqosom. i can't say such words that accurately describes these females because timesofmalta censor or edit my comments. like i said before there's nothing morally wrong with having an underage girlfriend as long as it's consensual and there's not big gap age. i think 70% of 15+ year old girls who are not single have an adult(18+) bf.

Joe Fenech

Dec 29th 2009, 01:35

Concretely - what will happen to these girls?

This is the brutal bullying that is not uncommon in our schools.

J GRECH

Dec 29th 2009, 01:27

FIRST OF ALL I HOPE THIS GIRL RECOVERS,NEXT THE HEAD CANNOT BE EVERYWHERE AT ALL TIMES,IF NOT IN PLACE ALREADY MAY I SUGGEST CLASS MONITORS AND PREFECTS ARE GIVEN DUTIES TO CHECK ALL ROOMS THEY HAVE JUST LEFT ARE EMPTY AND ALL CLOAKROOMS ARE COVERED AT ALL BREAK TIMES WITH MONITOR/PREFECT ON DUTY TILL END OF BREAK AND ALL PUPILS ARE BACK IN CLASS, PLEASE KEEP AGE OF CONSENT AT 18 TAKE A LESSON FROM THE UK WHEN CONSENT WAS 21 WE HAD PREGNANCYS AT 18 WHEN IT WAS 18 WE HAD UNWANTED BABYS AT 16 NOW ITS 16 WE HAVE THEM AT 12/14 ALTHOUGH THIS IS NOT ABOUT AGE CONSENT 2 GIRLS HAVE COMMITTED A SERIOUS OFFENCE AND MUST BE PUNISHED BUT THIS NEXT GENERATION HAVE GONE WILD THEY KNOW PARENTS ARE NOT ALLOWED TO SMACK THEM AND ARE PUSHING THEIR LUCK BUT WHEN IN TROUBLE THE PARENT IS ON TRIAL AS WELL, THE WAY I SEE IT IS IF THE GOVERMENT HAS REMOVED PARENTIAL RIGHTS TO SMACK(NOT BEAT) THEN LET GOVERMENT STAND ON TRIAL AND PAY THE FINES, EVEN TEACHERS HANDS ARE TIED WHEN IT COMES TO DICIPLINE, DO NOT FOLLOW THE BIG COUNTRYS ITS NOT WORKING.

Daisy Harrison

Dec 28th 2009, 23:55

The incident has shocked the otherwise idyllic Gozitan community, however, police sources told this newspaper it was "common practice" in the school for girls to pull down fellow students' panties as "a joke".

"This practice has been going on for at least a year but evidently this time things went way too far

Good grief! and nothing was done about it? how is pulling down a fellow pupil's panties a 'joke' its sexual abuse whichever you look at it. The school is at fault here. Heads should roll!

M. DeBono

Dec 28th 2009, 23:22

@ Mark Galea

Sir, police are also supposed to keep order but it does not follow that if a crime happens it is THEIR fault!! Unfortunately no person can be at all times everywhere and be sure that if anyone wants to break the law - or in some way or other misbehave - well, s/he will study the time and place where s/he will not be caught! The school headmistress was my colleague for many years and I can assure everyone she is one of the most dedicated, hardworking and responsible persons I know. It is very easy to blame the head for everything wrong that happens within the school's boundaries - from a missing toilet paper roll, to bullying, injuries and so on. However one must understand that at times it is just impossible to foresee certain situations and to prevent these from actually happening. Even more so in such a large school with close to a thousand students. It is always far too easy to give solutions after the actual fact happens.

Joseph Schembri

Dec 28th 2009, 23:16

Thanks Philip for the wikipedia link which shows that Malta together with Moslem and undemocratic Turkey is the only country in this part of the world with a ridiculously high age of consent. But your joke about us being holier than the Vatican (they had until a few months ago an age of consent of 12) falls rather flat.

Age of consent is not a moral, neither a psychological issue.It is simply a legal matter. A 16 year old in Malta can hold a job, can have a bank account, can withdraw money, and can MARRY! But sex is illegal!

What purpose is this law serving? Is it protecting children? Of course not. So why is it there? It serves for personal vendettas and destroying the lives of your enemies. Who can honestly say that they have never done anything a little more risque than hold hands with someone under 18? Well that someone can come back decades later and accuse you of defilement because he/she was a minor at the time... and you've had it.

Protect children and attack real paedophiles by all means but lower age of consent to protect decent people!
.

Joseph Schembri

Dec 28th 2009, 22:55

Reading the comments of people like CZammit makes me despair of the Democratic system as practiced now in the Western world. I assume he is a man because he is unaware of male porn and speaks in a sickeningly condescending manner about women.
Asking him whether he thinks whether Nabokov's most famous work is paedophile porn would be a waste of space and time. Again I despair at the thought that people like him are given a vote which they can use to limit my freedom and shackle me and other freethinkers.

Randolph Peresso

Dec 28th 2009, 21:57

The main issue here is BULLYING!!! It is a very serious problem in Maltese secondary schools (as in all schools worldwide).

We need the media to put more light on this problem, so that parents and the education authority become aware of the problem and start doing something about it.

Teachers are left powerless. All there efforts to erradicate this problem are proving futile. They definetely need more powers and co-operation.

J. Camilleri

Dec 28th 2009, 21:47

Lis-Sur Mark Galea - sieheb jekk qed tahseb li l-madam mhux qed taghmel xoghlha sejjer zball kbir. Jekk tahseb li int tajjeb al surmast nistidnek titfa applikazjoni ghax fi ftit snin ohra ikun hemm post al-head f'dik l-iskola. Sur Mark vera qed tparla min widnejk...

Lis-sur Paul Camilleri.. int donnok il-haddiem tas-sena. Kumment bhal "where on earth qedin it-teachers, thid mhux it-tamarisk jiehdu cafe" veru kumment banali u li ma jamilx sens. Nixtieq inkun naf xi nuha ix-xol tijek? Ma nahsibx li t-teachers imorru jiehu cafe x hin tkun adejja xi lezzjoni jew x'hin ikunu supervision. Ahjar tataw intom u haddiehor x qed jamel, milli titfaw dell ikrah fuq it-teachers.

M Caruana

Dec 28th 2009, 21:32

I do agree with the previous comments about this bullying happened to this girl unfortunately, but I have one question towards the teachers in that particular school, Why these girls have left on their own in the classrom during the break? Does any teacher notice any strange action/bullying behaviour from these children? Because as far as I know by experience in some schools, students are not able to stay alone in the classrooms!!!! So Bullying / similar cases will be protected !!!!.

J Cassar

Dec 28th 2009, 21:14

First of all, I sympathise with the child to have to go through all this, and respect her courage in reporting this case. I understand that for the child sake, it's better not to go the same school. But the Government and Church schools MUST do everything possible so that this child would get all the help and education needed, to get through this difficult moment. Secondly, what are the teachers and all the staff of the school (including the Head of School) doing?? I hope that the Ministry of Education would go into this case and make all the changes needed, even expel some staff due negligence, because our children needs a safe environment at school. I am afraid to send my children in schools like this! And Yes some teachers are outside the school having coffee at Tamarisk during school hours. Thirdly, The 2 kids that allegedly are bullies, MUST be sent to special army schools not mixed with others and even go to juvenile jail, as this is not a joke went wrong, as they knew what they were doing.

victor pulis

Dec 28th 2009, 21:11

T. Gauci
according to your way of thinking if I'm hungry and I see someone eating a burger I may jump on him and eat his burger! Serves him right. he shouldn't have tempted me by scoffing that burger under my nose. Our self control is one of the traits that distinguishes us from the rest of the animals and besides, I'm sure that in this case the victim didn't tempt her aggressors because of her dress. By the way this case shuld be treated as attempted rape not defilement.

N.Aquilina

Dec 28th 2009, 20:30

@ T.Gauci re.: your comment "Some girls ask for it"
Shame on you!
Tajba Dien!!! so you think short skirts or "dressing up indecently" are a free ticket for rapists and sex offenders to do what they want or for any male to act like an animal.
Thats exactly the probem. People thinking they have the right to beat, murder and rape because they think they were provoked.

T.gauci

Dec 28th 2009, 18:13

@C.Zammit if women don't want to be treated like sex objects then they shouldn't dress up indecently in the first place. some girls ask for it. these type of girls have low self esteem and feel pressure so they join the criteria of "superiority" because that's what the media portrays. porn has nothing to do with this, porn is scripted and not real life, every mature person should know this. what goes around comes around

Philip Sultana

Dec 28th 2009, 17:15

This entry outlines legal ages of consent across Europe: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ages_of_consent_in_Europe Malta, along with Turkey are shown to have the highers ages of consent in Europe - considerably higher than the Vatican's. It goes to show that we Maltese are holier than the Pope himself!

Miguel Micallef

Dec 28th 2009, 16:55

C Zammit, how does lowering the national age of consent from 18 to 16 mean that I use girls as objects for sex? How? Please elaborate, otherwise we can assume your credibility is zero.

By the way, I am 27 years old. I have been with my current partner for 10 years. I was 17, she was 14. There, put me on the sex offender list and in prison, and put 75% or more of the country with me.

Audri Mizzi

Dec 28th 2009, 16:44

Yes I know it was a bad case of abuse and yes, it seems like some need to hear my 'flash news'. Things like these have also happened to boys and men. Are they viewed as being 'sex objects' too? It's useless pointing fingers and deciding what needs to be done. Diverting the blame onto other laws or possible solutions is pretty much pointless. These girls knew what they were doing. Ban movies too in that case, so people won't kill.

CMicallef

Dec 28th 2009, 16:27

The danger of sex registers and also with the current age of consent, is that it could mean that an 18 year old boy who has sex with his 16 or 17 year old girlfriend (or vice versa) could end up being prosecuted for rape, and being listed on a sex offenders list for the next 10 years or more of their life - effectively screwing up any possibiity of a career as the list does not mention the particulars of the case. Statistics will show you that teenagers in Malta normally lose their virginity at around 16 - the creation of a sex offenders list and a high age of consent makes most of them criminals.

C.Zammit

Dec 28th 2009, 16:23

@Audri Mizzi - What sort of imagination is there in creating a movie to humiliate someone?We are talking of abuse here not a decent love scene in a movie. No body needs your 'flash news' that many 16yr olds are not virgins. The pity is not that they have sex but that they give their bodies to anyone they might fancy at the moment or a drunken one night stand! If people are bullied , Raped & lifes are ruined every single day then we must start to work to avoid these things to happen and make them less in everyday life. Ban computers from my house tv and magaizne. The P.C can be used for many other things rather than watch porn same as tv and many magazines one can read which are not porn. But porn and other so called men mags have given society the idea that women are sex objects & nothing more! More education is needed about this from a young age. People who create porn movies are not doing any good to society they are only harming society by giving these brilliant ideas. What happened in thisschool was a very bad caseof abuse!!!

A Grech

Dec 28th 2009, 16:22

It is not the first time that i came across unruley children coming from families who, apart from the child's behaviour, are exemplary ones, given also that some problem children are the result of monstrous parents. But why is it that a child misbehaves? what made these girls play such a nasty trick upon a fellow student? Everybody seems ready to lynch these two girls for trying to do something so horrible. Some commentators below are saying that things are going from bad to worst when it comes to the next generations... is it our constant nagging about our unsatisfactory lives that stifles the kids' minds and make them lose all hope for a better future? a punishment is well deserved in the above case, but even more is the need to see where we are going wrong. As a counter measure maybe selfdefence should be thought to everyone, in that way the victim would have avoided all that came after. I really believe in martial arts and i think it would be very good for society both in discipline and in forming a healthy lifestyle. Obviously this last point is just my idea on how to better things.

C.Zammit

Dec 28th 2009, 16:06

cont - a woman being humiliated this way. I am not just saying this to you only Mr.Micallef but to all these people who have these toughts on women. @Joseph Schembri - Yes you educate your children but no one has the right to take of someonce clothes and humiliate a person. So if these sick people can't control them selves they need some one to control them like you control an animal as it has no brain to think for it's selve unless it's well trained. Our women & young girls especially have the right to be protected and not become victims of these sick individuals. FREEDOM IS A GIFT BUT ONE HAS TO TAKE CARE OF IT. If you take someone elses freedom than there is no wrong in taking yours. Sex offenders destroy the lifes of many young girls & Woman. We need a sex offender register!! Sex offenders are even arrested in other european countries and where it comes to the underaged it is one of the worst crimes a civilised human can commit. The only education needed to be given is that one has to fully respect Women / girls. Most of thevictims are women

Audri Mizzi

Dec 28th 2009, 16:04

C. Zammit. You cannot ban porn. Ban computers in your house, ban tv, ban magazines but you cannot ban imagination anyway. Are you suggesting that having sex with a 16 year old can compare to this? Flashnews: most 16 year olds aren't virgins and it's not just women who get raped anyway.

Mark Galea

Dec 28th 2009, 15:56

Seems that many forgot one point.

Where is the school headmaster (in this case madam)?
Isn't she supposed to keep discipline?

D Borg

Dec 28th 2009, 15:55

having attented this school myself i am appaled that something like this happened. i have no complains of any sort towards the head teachers, people responsable for this school since it has been them who guided me through a very good education and helping me in building a polite character. i have relatives who attend this school who say that d 2 girls accused are well known to be bullies and trouble makers. What they did is disguisted...they first need to be held responsable for what they did and face the music that comes with doing something like this and secondly i also think they need some help...normally troublesome kids always have something underneat ( either rebellion for something that happened to them, anger, neglect of some sort etc) Normal 13 year olds don't try to rape their peers. trying to rape at 13 imagine at an older age ..what will they do!!!???
I hope some action is taken and they are punished for what they did. Hope they also get some help to start being normal 13 year olds.
Am sure that girl abused is given the best cure
LET'S NOT LET THIS BE ANOTHER BRICK IN THE WALL!!!

C.Zammit

Dec 28th 2009, 15:53

@ Miguel Micallef - Why should a sex offender be protected by law after he made someone else's life a living hell! If a register is unjust it was unjust of him to commit the crime. Well said K.Sullivan you like someone who is close to your age! True how old are you Mr.Micallef?? Are your comments in line 100% with normal european citizens or with the sick once?. At 16 you are still immature & girls have a lot of pressure where it comes to sex thanks to today's media. So a man who is 18 yrs or older should know better.That's why they need to be protected by our law. The world is going backwards going back to the ancient times. Why should women be sex objects? That's all you think of when you see a woman. Sex?? You go out with a girl just for Sex?? thats the only thing you think of. Of course Sex is normal but the two agree and both partners respect each other. That's why before I said that porn should be banned world wide because it pictures women as 'stupid sex objects'.Let's face it you have to be sick to enjoy

Audri Mizzi

Dec 28th 2009, 15:52

This is not the first time things like this have happened. I scrolled down comments and read things like 'give these girls a good beating' and 'ban porn'. Insightful indeed. Biex inkunu hallejna kumment fuq it Times!
People get abused every single day, people are bullied, people have their lives ruined by people who may get away with what they've done and probably raise children of their own one day. That is reality.

Joseph Schembri

Dec 28th 2009, 15:42

Miguel I get the same problem. I use no slander, libelous comments and never any coarse language yet I get censored. I find that some private blogs will not censor anything out. One of them is listed somewhere below in one of the comments. Try that. I did and I was allowed to speak my mind.

Georgina Scicluna

Dec 28th 2009, 15:32

Please note that all the criticism directed against the school is out of proportion. This is an isolated incident - which has yet to be investigated by the police, followed by the judicial procedures - and such procedures should be allowed to take their course. As far as the school is concerned, it appears that the necessary disciplinary measures and procedures were taken, and now the matter is in the hands of the police and of the judiciary. Note must be taken that the school in question has a very good record and this sole incident should not be the one and only measure to taint the school's reputation and the invaluable work of the Head of School, teachers and staff.

Both the victim's right to privacy as well as the right of the alleged perpetrators to have a fair trial should be kept in mind by any one commenting on this story.

Miguel Micallef

Dec 28th 2009, 15:25

Once again I have to stop discussing this article with you since the newspaper censors my comments which contain no vulgar or rude words but mere explanations of my thoughts which are 100% in line with all other European countries.

I will leave you to discuss on your own. Enjoy.

victor pulis

Dec 28th 2009, 14:40

The incident has shocked the otherwise idyllic Gozitan community
Some of the most bizarre, macabre and violent crimes have been commited on the idyllic island of Gozo.

Miguel Micallef

Dec 28th 2009, 14:35

The problem with the sex offender register is that 'sex offender' means different things to different people.

For example, for most of you I would be a sick, twisted and to be imprisoned sex offender. This is because in line with almost other European countries, I believe that an age of consent of 16 would be OK (or 15 as long as the partner is in a 2 year bracket, ie a 15 yr old with a 17 yr old would be OK but a 15 yr old with a 25 yr old wouldn't).

This is the big danger of the sex offender register. Normal people such as a 19 yr old that has sex with his 16/17 year old partner would be labelled as a sex offender in this register, screwing him up for life. Do you not see the danger in this?

No one here is asking for a 12 or 13 age of consent (repeat, like in the vatican). But let's be realistic. Until we become more realistic in our reasoning the register should be a definite NO GO area because it will do a lot of damage.

Joseph Schembri

Dec 28th 2009, 14:33

C.Zammit: Because one is for a smaller state (which includes as little interference in one's private life by the state as possible) does not mean that anyone has anything to hide.

All dictatorships and oligarchies start from attempts at controlling some individual freedom for the so called 'common good'. In this case it is a sex offenders register. It does not matter what, it could be a register of people who like smoked salmon. I do not agree that the state should be processing information about private citizens.. whoever they are. If you want to protect your children educate them. If I want to protect my house I install sturdy doors and would never ask for a list of all convicted thieves in my area.

In my first year of philosophy I read Jean Jacques Rousseau who said: "Man is born free, and everywhere he is in chains". I will do my utmost to resist any government attempt to shackle any of our hard earned freedoms. One of them is that to privacy.

Joseph Schembri

Dec 28th 2009, 14:22

Sullivan - I will join your group if in your sex offenders register you also include drug pushers. I don't know about you but I'd rather have my daughter groped by a dirty old man, however distasteful I find the idea, than her being offered heroin by same dirty old man.

Actually include also murderers and thieves as I don't want my daughter robbed or murdered do I?

While at it let's have an adulterer's register so that I can protect the wife from these sick predators and post it on every Church bulletin board so that I can look at it each Sunday as I walk out of mass feeling so much holier than all the sick perverts who lust after 16 year olds.

Joseph Schembri

Dec 28th 2009, 14:21

Sullivan you obviously have no idea about the strife in Northern Ireland and the way the real Irish are offended at being called British. If you think you can teach me basic geography brush up on your history and see what the English did to the Irish. You have no idea about what I was saying to Tyrrell either. He is the same man who 7 or 8 years ago was writing letter after letter in the Times and in the Independent (Malta) telling us how terrible it would be for us if we joined the EU. He is Irish, whatever he says because County Antrim were he hails from is in Northern Ireland. Ireland reaped countless bounties after joining the EU - I am speaking about EIRE here.

Raymond Sammut

Dec 28th 2009, 14:21

@ Joseph Schembri -- "...the first sentence of the article it says the charge will be 'defiling". This has to do with age of consent. In my opinion the charge should be violent assault because in other sectors of the press there are other details about the attack."

The Malta Police do not base their "opinion" on "sectors of the press". They base their evidence on their findings at the scene where the alleged assault occurred. They also present their evidence at the Malta Courts and not set out to conduct trial by media.

An assault is deemed violent only if physical harm occurred. Conversely, assault is said to have occurred if a threat was made even if no physical harm did occur.

It is entirely up to the police investigating the case to establish whether physical harm did actually occur. For example, the police could ask a medical practitioner to examine the victim. But The Times report shows that there is no indication whatsoever that violence did occur.

K Sullivan

Dec 28th 2009, 14:10

Well said C.Zammit!!! My thoughts exactly. If you are not an offender you should approve and vote to have a sex offenders register.

Miguel Micallef your statement "16 yrs old is not a girl. Its a woman. It's sick not to like them, liking them is healthy and normal" is acceptable if you are 16 or 17 or younger. How old are you??

C.Zammit

Dec 28th 2009, 13:46

@ Miguel Micallef - Why should you be afraid of a sex offender register?. If you are not one you are not listed & need not to be afraid! The civilised people in this country should know who are the perverts and sick minds walking in our streets. We have the right to protect our families & kids. One other thing to mention people who commit sex crimes on underage people are even hated by other criminals in jail. It is the worst of all crimes. People who go jail for abuse on underage children are usually beaten up & have their life made miserable by other prisoners! Sex offenders should be given harsher prison sentences even life if possible so we get rid of them from our streets!!!!! So i don't see your point in saying that a sex offender register is dangerous! If you are not one you need not to be afraid!

K Sullivan

Dec 28th 2009, 13:45

Miguel, please clarify: do you think a sex offenders regester is dangerous or not having one is?

I think it's imperative to have one here in Malta so those who employ poeple around children will be sure that they (our children) are safe.

Schembri, your comments are totally out of context. And for your info: British includes all of Britain including Northern Ireland and Wales Duh!!!

Miguel Micallef

Dec 28th 2009, 13:33

C Zammit in any half decent country it would be hateful and ignorant people like you that would be put to jail.

16 yrs old is not a girl. Its a woman. It's sick not to like them, liking them is healthy and normal. This is simple science and biology, not some fancy thing that you can decide upon yourself, or your religion.

Are you saynig everyone in the vatican is sick? Are you saying all of Europoe is sick? Are you saying we should imprison everyone north of Malta? Are you saying God is sick since Mary gave birth at 14 yrs of age?

Some nerves you've got.

Miguel Micallef

Dec 28th 2009, 13:11

The sex offender register in Malta is one of the most dangerous things I've heard in a while. No wonder people leave this country like crazy.

C.Zammit

Dec 28th 2009, 13:05

I think it's about time to BAN PORN!! These kids get these ideas from somewhere! The world needs to be cleaned from these sick people who produce porn & dirty the minds of our teenagers. Also I think these girls should be charged & given a harsh prison sentence even if they are only 13 but the crime commited is one that an adult would do, so they should be punished like adults. Anyone that's over 18 and likes underage girls are very very sick people!!! The law should stay as it is meaning that you can't have sex with a person who is under 18.These law protects young people from abuse.@ Joseph Schembri getting married to a 16 yr old girl and your say 23 is one thing as the girls parents have to agree before they get married. So if a man has no intention to love the girl who is 16 & just likes girls who are underage he is a very sick person and it would be a good idea to put him in Jail!!! We don't need sick idiots walking around our streets. It's about time to take action and lock them up!!!!

Joseph Schembri

Dec 28th 2009, 13:03

Tyrell: I can see what sort of person you are now if you keep insisting on being British (which most people equate to being English) and not Irish. County Antrim is in Ireland. Ask any Gozitan, you like that Island too I think, about how they feel about being Gozitan. I used to feel sorry for you when Daphne Caruana Galizia made fun of you in her blogs but now I see her point. You also say that you liked older women even as a boy - then watch a film called 'Harold and Maude'. I think it is English.. not British mind.

I did not hijack the thread - the moderator will see to that. In the first sentence of the article it says the charge will be 'defiling". This has to do with age of consent. In my opinion the charge should be violent assault because in other sectors of the press there are other details about the attack.

R Scerri

Dec 28th 2009, 12:47

I am shocked that a story like this came out only now, I am 30 yrs old and thing like this have been happening for light years .I pray and sincerlyhope that God give her & her famliy strenght and sanity. I can only imagine the trauma this child is passing through,(abused children abroad even committed suicide) it seems that children have lost their innocence. only last week i was driving throuh a town with my 25 old brother and we saw a group of 10 to 13 yr old max with skirts shorter than belts I have and his exact words "omg looks at those girls with clothes like that at ten i was still playing with dinosaurs" ..I said this because i believe there are children that are quite innocent and then there are other that are not so and that's when bullying start and things are taken further. Sometimes children are scared to seek help in case bullying gets worse and believe me its worse . Also the Head SHOULD resign, because he/she is there to take care of the children not only accademically, where he/she was when things like these were happening, why she didn't know

James A. Tyrrell

Dec 28th 2009, 12:44

@Joseph Schembri. I'm really sorry Joseph; I didn't know you wanted to restrict your argument to Europe alone. My mistake!

I really like Ireland and the Irish too but like I said I'm British so it doesn't bother me either way.

I don't really see your point about the photograph. When I look at it I see four young girls, are you seeing something different? If you mean am I attracted in some way to them then the honest answer would be no. I have always preferred older women to some giggling immature teenager even when I was a teenager myself!

Again as others have said I think it is wrong of people like you to hijack a serious assault issue like this in order to try and gain popularity for lowering the age of consent. The Maltese legal system needs to wake up and start treating the abuse of minors and women in general with the seriousness it deserves.

Joseph Schembri

Dec 28th 2009, 12:30

Sullivan - I will join your group if in your sex offenders register you also include drug pushers. I don't know about you but I'd rather have my daughter groped by a dirty old man, however distasteful I find the idea, than her being offered heroin by same dirty old man.

Actually include also murderers and thieves as I don't want my daughter robbed or murdered do I?

While at it let's have an adulterer's register so that I can protect the wife from these sick predators and post it on every Church bulletin board so that I can look at it each Sunday as I walk out of mass feeling so much holier than all the sick perverts around me.

K Sullivan

Dec 28th 2009, 12:02

Well said M. Caruana.

I have started a facebook group called "Protect the Children of Malta with a Sex Offender Registry". If any of you use Facebook, please join and invite your friends. This is a serious issue which needs proper law restructure. Thanks

M Caruana

Dec 28th 2009, 11:42

Gozo is not the saintly place everyone thinks it is. It is rotten and corrupt, Malta included. Stop pretending our islands are holy. They are not. It is about time that country laws are properly reviewed and enforced. You cannot blame Head of School for this incident. This is something which goes beyond management in a school. Head of School works hard to control a big school and unfortunately only the bad incidents are disclosed, while the good deeds are easily forgotten. Other schools have worse incidents and they are being hidden! Plus schools need external support where students who commit such deeds can be suspended and properly punished. By punishment I mean military establishments where proper discipline is carried out. This incident points at the lassitude of our country.. we have criminals, paedophiles, pushers and all sorts of criminals, who are known by everyone and are still running around because the law system is AFRAID of them. We have damaged streets, illegal construction taking place, people boarding out when they have full-time jobs on the side... this country is lax and stupid. Open your eyes Maltese islands and scrub them well before it's too late!

Charles Caruana

Dec 28th 2009, 11:40

As usual people are missing the wood for the trees.

This is not about the age of consent or defilement or that it happened in Gozo.

People who attack or harm others especially without their wishes should be punished whether they are underage or not.

John F Borg

Dec 28th 2009, 11:39

I beg to differ from what was allegedly stated by the Police. There is a big difference between pulling someone's panties down, and stripping someone and forcing a hard object up this person's backside.

The former, although still an invasion of privacy and something that may have an impact on the person's self esteem is something seemingly practiced in many schools where the pullling down might only involve a couple of centimeters. Though here I am NOT justifying this act.

The latter case is a form of bulllying, abuse and assault which is serious and has even more serious repercussions on the VICTIM.

It is also very disgusting that many of the contributors chose this incident to push their personal agendas as regards the age of consent. The attitude of some cannot be generalised to the whole population. On the same lines just because some 13 year olds who attend certain venues, get drunk in the weekend; it does NOT mean that all 13 year olds do!!

Joseph Schembri

Dec 28th 2009, 11:23

James A. Tyrrell : I really like Ireland and the Irish even when the weather is as you call it 'soft' so don't take anything that I say personally please. As a way to maybe bring a smile to your face take a look at this and tell me whether you like the picture or not, but remember that you are a criminal in Malta if you like the photo: http://malta-exposed.blogspot.com/2009/12/in-malta-you-can-get-married-at-16-but.html

Joseph Schembri

Dec 28th 2009, 11:10

James Tyrrell : as regards age of consent I was referring to Europe and surrounding areas. Do you know that one can marry a girl of 9 in some of the countries that you list but an adulterous woman is stoned to death? We hardly want to be another Iran, do we?

The stupid thing about our age of consent legislation is that people here can marry at 16 anyone of any age... even a 70 year old. So you can marry and make babies at 16 but you can't have sex until you're 18. Don't people see that my point is that this senseless law is just an unfortunate glitch in our system that is making criminals out of decent people?

When I was an undergraduate I had a girlfriend who was in her last year of secondary school. In Maltese we have an expression: 'Kienet iddahalni fil but u tohrogni". Had I been accused of sharing anything such as a passionate kiss with her I would now be in deep trouble. Labeled a paedophile, on a sex offenders register, chipped and possibly in prison. But only in Malta. Not anywhere else in Europe.

CFarrugia

Dec 28th 2009, 10:52

@james tyrell
thanks a lot. whenever I answer joseph schembri and co about the age of consent, they defend themselves and tell me I do not know the laws and "AM WRONG AS USUAL". now it seems that their comments are also not completely right, you put it on paper. thanks again, because I am fed up of reading their comments about age of consent, especially in cases of sexual abuse which have nothing to do with the age of consent. Unfortunately the laws in Malta are far too lenient in cases of abuse of children, we saw an example of it when a Maltese forming part of a paedophilic ring who was caught by the Austrian police just got a suspended sentence. what message are we giving adults who have these sick tendencies? Go on with it?

Carla Vella

Dec 28th 2009, 10:40

Hold on a moment here! If this "practice" "bullying" "joking", whatever you want to call it, has been going on for a year at this Gozitan school, why have the Heads of School not been taken to task about it? Let's face it, you can view (or deny) it as you wish but this is sexual offending. A wake-up call.

victor caruana

Dec 28th 2009, 10:38

Quote: 'The incident has shocked the otherwise idyllic Gozitan community'. Shocked my foot. Gozo seem to be a rotten place where morals and decency are concerned - this is not the first filthy incident in such a small island.

M Falzon

Dec 28th 2009, 10:36

I agree with Pauline Grech. It is unfair to blame the head of school of Agius De Soldanis. Without her dedication and hard work the school would have been far worse.

I think that the education division should invest in a disciplinary system that helps problem behaviour students and their victims. As till now, nothing has been done on this matter. Students who are expelled from church schools go to state schools. And where are those students who are detained from state schools directed to? Do they stay at home? Do they earn a holiday for being rude at school? I believe that much of the problems begin at home. Sometimes also in the community, where in Gozo underaged are still admitted to places where they are not supposed to enter (like discos and parties).

But in my opinion, such problem students should be given social support to understand their wrong doings and not repeat them in their future life and be given supervised community work. Hard community work or even some time in the army to help them built a sense of discipline.

P. Camilleri

Dec 28th 2009, 09:43

@H. Dilani. Being in love with the island is neither here nor there. The issue is the untold and longterm harm that has been done to a 13 yr old
@J.Borg. You are right. Ikbar ma int iktar hemmhek jghid il-Malti. Positions of responsibility are exactly that.
How many parents of children who attend the school are going to be at ease when school starts again? I don't agree with the 'joke gone wrong' as stated by the police. Not much of a joke for anybody atthe receiving end. Wake up and call wrong wrong and admit that there exist people with sick attitudes who are tomorrow's citizens.
I am sure that there are many teachers who don't agree with the 'sick' kind of behaviour that has gone on for over a year and probably some of them in their professionalism have also voiced their concern. It seems their concern has been pushed under the carpet, maybe not once but several times, if they haven't also been ridiculed as narrow-minded by some of their colleagues.
I am of the same opinion as others in this thread: this is surely not an isolated case and several parents must be very worried

L. Tabone

Dec 28th 2009, 09:19

I find some of the comments here regarding age of consent disgusting. I wonder if they would have the same opinion if they had teenage daughters themselves?

Darren Mizzi

Dec 28th 2009, 09:18

Two quotes from the article:
"common practice" in the school for girls to pull down fellow students' panties as "a joke". & "This practice has been going on for at least a year but evidently this time things went way too far"

- I personally wouldn't find this a joke because a joke is something every one (including the 'victim' will laugh about and not humilate a person. Besides I would say "things went way too far" every time a girl had her panties pulled down not only for this particualr incident.

J stevens

Dec 28th 2009, 08:53

any man who wants the age of consent to be lowered to 12/14 is twisted and should be locked u p and the key thrown away

victor pulis

Dec 28th 2009, 07:59

Does lowering the age of consent to say 13 bring with it the right to marry at that age? It makes 'sense' since they are 'mature' enough to have sex they are 'mature' enough to face the possible consequences.

h galea

Dec 28th 2009, 07:21

I stoped reading comments,This is disgasting,if it happened only once, but all ready going for one year,teachers sure know all what goes on in school, and happy enough all in Gozo.Any comments from the Bishop.

Dave Alan Caruana

Dec 28th 2009, 02:52

doesn't anybody think that this article has a little more information than anybody needs to know?

James A. Tyrrell

Dec 28th 2009, 00:24

It’s not as you say just Malta which sets the age of consent at 18 Joseph. You are forgetting about Turkey.

Also, Afghanistan: a female must be married
Queensland Australia: female must be 18
Bahrain: a female must be married
Belarus: female must be 18
Bhutan: female must be 18
Brazil: female must be 18
Burundi: female must be 18
Canada: female must be 18
Costa Rica: female must be 18
Dominican Republic: female must be 18
Egypt: female must be 18
El Salvador: female must be 18
Eritrea: female must be 18
Gabon: female must be 18
Guatemala: female must be 18
Haiti: female must be 18
Iran: a female must be married
Iraq: female must be 18
Japan: female must be 18
Kazakhstan: female must be 18
Kenya: female must be 18
Kuwait: a female must be married
Lebanon: female must be at least 18 and married
Madagascar: female must be 21
Mexico: female must be 18
And so on. So you see Joseph it isn’t just Malta.

LAttard

Dec 27th 2009, 23:57

My sister is 11 years old and she attends this school. She has had nightmares ever since this incident happened and when she comes home from school she runs to the bathroom because she's afraid to visit the toilets at school.
How can we keep our minds at rest when we send our children to school?
Has the administration of the school done something to keep the students safe at all times during the day? Do they really know what their roles are or they're too busy signing papers in their offices?

Paul Camilleri

Dec 27th 2009, 23:42

Im speechless.

It never occured to me that things like these would happen in such a school. Things like these are more likely to happen in the boys secondary school next door. As a former student, I for one should know.

Where on Earth were the teachers who were supposed to supervise eh? It-tamarisk jiehdu il kafe?!

Harold Dilani

Dec 27th 2009, 23:34

@ Pauline Grech@ Perhaps or maybe This Mr.J Borg can do a better job then the head of this school, there is always one who thinks he or she can do better, i happened to be a foreign resident/guest in Gozo, lets see if this geezer or (geeser what ever). can do a better job by practicing what he preaches. Let him take over if he is man enough, and i am not even from Gozo, but happend to love this little island and its people.

Claire Busuttil

Dec 27th 2009, 22:52

Nispera li dawn it tfal, jekk hatja, jiehdu kastig, u mhux ghax huma [zghar}, ma jitihdux passi kontrijiom....!!! Li ghamlu hi haga ta skandlu kbir.
La kienu kapaci jaghmlu haga bhal din, ghandhom ikunu kapaci ukol jacetaw kastig xieraq.

Soledarjeta mat tifla li garbet dan kollu, u ma omma............

Raymond Sammut

Dec 27th 2009, 21:50

@ Joseph Schembri -- "I hope that the police do not prosecute on the airy charge defilement (which can mean anything or nothing) but on violent assault."

There is nothing here that suggests a "violent" assault. An assault is not necessarily violent. The police source stated that this appears to be merely a joke gone too far.

"Defilement" does mean something concrete in Malta's legal system, and it remains the prerogative of the Malta Police to invoke "defilement" when they attend court. There is absolutely no reference to "violence" by the police. It was the nature of the improvised implement, and the fact that the victim was allegedly traumatized, that raised concern.

Pauline Grech

Dec 27th 2009, 20:03

I find Mr Borg's (Joseph Borg) comment on the management of the school very unfair if not objectionable. Those who, like myself, have the fortune to know the Head of this particular school personally, know that she is working very hard indeed, weekends and summer holidays included. I feel it is high time to wake up and realize that our society is very sick indeed and comments like some of the comments on this blog only do further harm. Dear Head of School keep up your good work! I can assure you that without your presence in that school things could have been very much worse!

c. camilleri

Dec 27th 2009, 19:29

Perhaps John Bencini will tell us something about this incident. One is curious to know where were the teachers during the incident.

Joseph Schembri

Dec 27th 2009, 19:24

James Tyrrell: Northern Ireland you say? You did something there in 2008 which we should also do now here. You lowered the age of consent from 18 to 16. My point about the age of consent is that is all a question of semantics, which lawyers oh so love. The prostitute I mentioned in reality consented and agreed on payment... what the heck does it matter in real life to the younger person if there is a law that says that in Malta, ONLY in Malta, a person is not able to consent before he or she is 18?

E.Farrugia

Dec 27th 2009, 19:17

The more I read comments on this website, the more I love my dog

Denis Catania

Dec 27th 2009, 18:42

HEY TEACHER DON'T leave those kids alone.

M. Bonici

Dec 27th 2009, 18:32

Shame on these adults in authority. Lets not deny bullying goes on, it's whether we have the care or courage to deal with it from the outset that counts! Prevention is surely better than cure

G .Mizzi

Dec 27th 2009, 18:27

Hawn xi hadd minn dawn li kkummentaw qabli li jaf minn xiex ghaddejja din il-famija li ghaddiet minn din id-dizgrazzja?? Tifla ta' 13-il sena.... kissruha u min jaf kemm ghad irid jghaddi zmien biex forsi terga thossha normali ! U x'inhuma jistennew l-awtoritajiet biex jibdlulha l-iskola? Ma jafux li issa mhux postha iktar hemm fejn kienet? Dan mhux kaz tac-cajt. Din it-tifla giet abbuzata minn shabha stess u hemm bzonn li ma ssibx min ikissirha aktar.

James A. Tyrrell

Dec 27th 2009, 18:12

@Joseph Schembri. First of all Joseph I live in N. Ireland so I'm not Irish, I'm a 'Brit' as you refer to us. You go on to say, "We had a recent case where a 17 year old prostitute was 'defiled' (consensual sex had occurred) by an older man and the older man was imprisoned. The case is unbelievable!" Why exactly is it unbelievable Joseph? The age of consent in Malta is 18 therefore consensual sex could not have occurred as you state, because the girl was not old enough to give her consent. It's not exactly difficult to understand. Before you say, 'but she was a prostitute', it doesn't matter. She had not yet reached the age of consent. If she was 12 and working as a prostitute would you still describe it as consensual sex. By the way women are mistreated throughout the world and Ireland is no different in that respect. The difference here is that unlike Malta the law treats such victims with respect and jails the scum who abuse them, rather than sending the woman backs home for further abuse.

S. Tabone

Dec 27th 2009, 18:03

As usual some readers divert away from the real issue. Who is responsible? Are the teachers paid for the supervision they were supposed to be doing? Or were they at the Tamarisk having their coffee during school breaks and school hours?....Gozitans know well what I am saying...but of course everybody keeps his/her mouth shut....and the story goes on.

Joseph Schembri

Dec 27th 2009, 18:02

The "Partij voor Naastenliefde, Vrijheid en Diversiteit" is not a party for paedophiles in the Netherlands. Amongst the things that they propose is that age of consent laws should be abolished( with a few reservations). But that is only one of their proposals - some of the other proposals are so progressive that I am sure most people unaware of certain socio-philosophical schools cannot be expected to understand. Amongst the things this party proposes is that killing an animal for ANY reason is murder. One must remember that one of Europe's most progressive and liberal Prime Ministers - Luis Zapatero has given rights - eqautable to some basic human rights - to primates.

Joseph Schembri

Dec 27th 2009, 17:50

I hope that the police do not prosecute on the airy charge defilement (which can mean anything or nothing) but on violent assault. To my eyes it is much worse and if what we read is true I hope that the perpetrators get a punishment that they will remember so that they will never repeat such actions. Meanwhile this girl should be sent to school she can't be punished by missing out on her education! If she is too traumatised she should get a free private tutor - state paid.

T.gauci

Dec 27th 2009, 17:44

i agree with Joseph Schembri and Miguel Micallef there's nothing wrong with having an underage(18-) girlfriend as long as it's consensual. all it takes is a visit to PV or facebook search and you'll see that is typically.

Joseph Schembri

Dec 27th 2009, 17:40

James A. Tyrrell: Yes teach us how you Irish men treat women, gays etc. The idea of speaking about the age of consent arose because of the very first sentence of the article where the word 'defiling' is used. To defile means to make unclean therefore assuming that the victim is 'untainted' because of her age. In Malta the word can be used for any 'victim' under the age of consent. We had a recent case where a 17 year old prostitute was 'defiled' (consensual sex had occurred) by an older man and the older man was imprisoned. The case is unbelievable! Not even in the emerald isle would this have happened because your age of consent is lower than ours and therefore you cannot defile someone who is 17 in your country. Though something similar did happen to an Irishman--- over a hundred years ago, but it was the Brits who sentenced him to prison. He is buried in France now. Unnecessary age of consent laws are only complicating matters and making real criminals such as those of violent sexual assault on children or adults get away easier as police waste time on non issues.

C.Busuttil

Dec 27th 2009, 17:33

@David Monks Borg Big deal that in Holland they have the lowest rate of pregnancies can you pls let us know the rate of abortions. Holland is surely not an example. In such country you have people that are trying to set up a paedophile political party to contest the general elections so that paedophilia will depenalized. @Christian Sciberras Prosit what a "healthy lifestyle" Can you understand that this girl was assualted and did not want to have any sex. This was no sex by consent this was an assault or according to your self styled healthy lifestyle you consider assault as something consensual. Have the decency to respect what this girl and her parents might be going through.

Mary Cassar

Dec 27th 2009, 16:31

It seems there are people out there who are more interested in the e version of 'hearing hteir own voices' and have very conveniently forgotten the issue in question. Do all of you whining about age of consent and world-aware 13 year olds really facing this reality? Would you be talking so glibly if your daughter, sister, niece or family friend were the victim of such an attack? Come on, wake up if we really want Malta to be a better place than it has become. And please the so wide-eyed from overseas, is it possible that you are so blinkered with your pompous self importance that you are ignoring the real issue- can we safely send our children to school or do we calmly accept any bullying that they have to suffer at the hands of vindictive, unruly criminals? Because that makes us modern-thinking and in line with other countries. Heaven forbid this kind of attitude becomes more widespread. I agree with Joseph Borg, several people knew about the going-ons and they just didn't take action. Let's hope the police will now take the necessary action to teach such 13-year olds a lesson.

A. Curmi

Dec 27th 2009, 15:46

It is so awful to hear such a thing, poor girl. Up to about 5/6 years ago I was still attending the same school in question and nothing of this sort happened, we never knew of pulling trousers down as a joke and at my time we used to change for our pe lessons in front of each other and today they just come with their tracksuits from home. The actual issue is not the school, is that one generation is becoming worse than the other. You go out during the weekends and see these 13 yr olds looking like prostitutes (if not worse) and staying out till 3 am in the morning, where are their parents? children at that age shouldn't be allowed to look like that and stay out that late. Such sex education etc.. needs to be taught to both these children and their parents. Today's children aren't as inncoent as they used to be especially with today's careless parenting.
Regarding this case I also heard that when the girl asked for help from her superiors none of them had time for her.

David Monks.Borg

Dec 27th 2009, 15:46

@Joseph Schembri@ i understand what you're saying and its true unfortunitly the Maltese law is outdated and is still reflecting or based on the days of the ark, very backward people when it comes to sex. Here in Holland school children are taught about the birds and the bees at an early age, yet the Netherlands has the lowest rate of pregnancies in the whole of europe every child 13/14/15/16 year old are wise when it comes to such matters, but in Malta sorry my friend you are talking through deaf ears as the locals or i should say the oldies will never learn and thats where the porblem lies, its worse then most countries for the size of Malta and Gozo., perhaps maybe that is why the islands are full of Old Age Pensioners and not so many young people as most have seen the light and emmigrated to far away places where life is ment for living, if i may add has nothing to do with the church, the church is there for praying and to my mnd a good christian is to respect all people race, creed or colour.and above all no live&Let Live within the law.

Joseph Schembri

Dec 27th 2009, 15:38

Antoine Vella: It should not be the chamber of advocates reading this. The higher the age of consent, the happier they are. Legislators are the people who should be reading this and the writings of people like: John Holt and Judith Levine.

marthese mussett

Dec 27th 2009, 15:33

If guilty, give them a good beating.They know it s a very bad thing to do.I hope the girl gets the help she needs, and courage to the parents.

James A. Tyrrell

Dec 27th 2009, 15:11

I think a lot of people here are losing the plot with regard to this story. A young girl was seriously assaulted and all people here can do is use it as an excuse to moan about the age of consent! What has the age of consent got to do with it? No matter what some idiots here say a 13-year-old girl is a child. She may think she is grown up but she is far from it and for that reason in many cases needs protecting from herself.

Get this thread back to what it should be dealing with, that being the allegedly disgusting and criminal behaviour of two 13-year-old girls. As someone said what sort of people are they going to grow into when they are doing something like this at such a young age?

I suppose I shouldn't be all that surprised at the comments of some people here when I see the way men in Malta treat their women.

Antoine Vella

Dec 27th 2009, 14:59

I hope the Chamber of Advocates has someone reading these comments; they could learn a thing or two about law from here.

James Caruana

Dec 27th 2009, 14:48

the first time I heard about this incident, I was shocked to the marrow of my bones. I used to go to Ninu Cremona, which is exactly beside Agius de Soldanis, and the place is known for mentalities. it was a practical joke to pull down someone's trousers when I was there but not to undress them and put chair legs up their backside!!! the place was always crazy, and it still is. I never thought that such a thing would ever be done in the neighboring school...

also, from what I've heard, the girl was gagged with tape so that she wouldn't scream, and a door knob was also used. And it wasn't just her backside. if these girls were sent to prison, they would come out with worse ideas in their head! they should be put in solitary confinement, with minimum possible interaction with other people! and I feel very sorry for the girl who went through this torture.

Joseph Schembri

Dec 27th 2009, 14:43

Mr or Ms CMUSCAT: I find your comment regarding the thousands of people who want to lower the age of consent as just wanting to have it off with 14 or 16 year olds infantile. I would consider it offensive but I don't take offence from stupidity. If I want to have it of with 14 year olds all I need is a 2 Euro Ryanair ticket to Sicily where the age of consent is 14.

Using your non-sesnical argument because I am against capital punishment for murderers it means that I want to murder someone. Because I agree with the decriminilsation of hoomosexuality and aldultery I want to engage in these practices. Please think before you write.

A list of the ages of Consent in Europe is here: http://malta-exposed.blogspot.com/2009/12/ages-of-consent-in-european-union-and.html

Joseph Schembri

Dec 27th 2009, 14:31

Mr or Ms CFarrugia - you are wrong as usual. There are countries even in Europe where the age of consent is 13. Spain is one example. Until a few months ago in the Vatican state it was 12 let me spell that out: TWELVE. So a 60 year old could very lawfully have a jolly good old romp with a 12 year old... girl or boy (there are more altar boys than altar girls there I suppose) Very they recently increased it slightly - still much lower than Malta's 18 though.

The charge of 'defilement' here is ridiculous and it should be plain and simple violent assault in this case. Defilement is an archaic word that means nothing in today's world.

Miguel Micallef

Dec 27th 2009, 14:28

C farrugia, clearly you dont know the legislation. I already told you, the vatican age of consent is 12. How do these girls aged 13 fall below the 12 of the Vatican? In the vatican it would be ok to go with a 12 year old girl, or boy for that matter ;)

In no way am I excusing what was done to this little girl, my only point was that 13 year old girls (or boys for that matter) aren't the bubbled up innocent creatures most people beleive them to be. At age 13 boys and especially girls are already full on thinking about sex. Therefore it doesnt make any sense that a 17 year old WOMAN or MAN be treated like a child when it comes to age of consent.

And what I am saying about the innocence of 13 yr olds can clearly be seen from this article.

Joseph Schembri

Dec 27th 2009, 14:21

Miguel Micallef, don't use your time with the ilk of CFaruggia who must be living in some sort of a parallel universe populated by little innocent girls in fluffy pink clothes with balloons on a string. Let's campaign to lower Malta's abnormally high age of consent and at the same time aggressively report and prosecute non consensual sex.

C Muscat

Dec 27th 2009, 14:17

Stop mentioning the age of consent... I believe those who are in favour in lowering the age of consent are all interested of having it with a 14/16 yer old children.

Apart from this, I also believe that children know too much about their rights nowadays, and some of them really need to have a good smack on the face to get in their place.

Joseph Schembri

Dec 27th 2009, 14:12

These are the kind of 'children' that a grown men can be sent to prison for exchanging a kiss with. No, but what am I saying... in Malta the age of consent is 18 so it needn't be a 13 year old that you kiss or wink a little too suggestively at. In stupid Malta there are people in court and prison for having made some sort of consenting sexual contact with another person who was just a few weeks shy of 18!

NOWHERE else in Europe can this happen as only we have an age of consent of 18. When are legislators including the Minister of Justice and the Prime Minister going to lower the age of consent so that the police can concentrate on real paedophiles?!

lgalea

Dec 27th 2009, 14:10

Why not prescribe a dose of the same medicine they wanted to mete out on the other girl?
That should teach them a lesson.

Maria Richards

Dec 27th 2009, 14:01

We heared of many more such like incidents at this particular school. i wouldn't send my children over there.

jenny stevens

Dec 27th 2009, 14:01

I would like to think that all 13 year olds are innocent, sadly that is not the case I fear but, who is to blame for that?, there are a number of reasons one being that sex is bought to the attention of young children through education, why not let them remain children 6 and 7 year olds are being given sex education in other countries an I feel that is totally wrong, it is the parents who should decide when their child is ready for such lessons children develop differently. Then we have the press , TV personalities all of whom must take some of the blame for forcing sexual ideas into childrends minds, 13 year olds that I know personally are not the slightest bit interested. In the case of these girls and the way they attacked another girl I would agree that it is violent sexual assault not defilement and they should be treated very severely I wonder what sort of human beings they will be when they groww up if they are that viscious and spteful at 13

CFarrugia

Dec 27th 2009, 13:54

christian schiberras
many 13 your olds might have experience I never denied that. but the high percentage of maltese youths having pregnancies in their teen years and the not so low prevalence of sexually transmitted diseases among youths is a clear proof that youths are not mature enough for sexual activity, I wonder how come you ask what they need to be protected from????? if a young teenage girl is having sex with an older man, the risks are bigger for her, especially for STD's.

Paul Borg

Dec 27th 2009, 13:50

The minister is only interested in reforms and is not taking any notice about the behavior of the students. Take for instance the case of the teacher that last year lost her eye sight because she was poked in her eye by a student. She is still without compensation from the ministry and had to open a court case. Shame on the minister.

CFarrugia

Dec 27th 2009, 13:46

@Miguel Micallef
I did not call you disgusting, I said I find your comment to be disgusting. Read well next time please. what I mean is such articles should not be used so people like you promote their thoughts about changing the age of consent. these were thirteen year olds anyway. so below the age of consent in ANY european country. I do not need to read, I know the legislation thanks.

Franco Farrugia

Dec 27th 2009, 13:42

@ Joseph Borg: Quick on the draw, to attack the educational authorities, aren't you? Let's put the responsibility on the girls themselves, for once, shall we not? They are not minors, in spite of their age. They seem to know all the 'tricks of the trade'! And then society continues to protect these 'minors' at all costs!

James A. Tyrrell

Dec 27th 2009, 13:22

@CFarrugia. I agree totally with what you are saying here. I also found these comments by Miguel Micallef shocking to say the least.

@Joseph Borg. In defence of the police Joseph I dare say the first they knew of these other incidents was during their investigations into this more serious incident. I agree with you that there are probably other victims and indeed culprits out there who need to be dealt with.

It's a shame that this poor girl is going to have to move schools just so that she can feel safe from these animals. It's also a disgrace that the teachers at the school allowed this sort of behaviour to continue for so long because they certainly knew about it. They are not just there to teach, it is also their job to provide a safe environment in which children can learn.

Miguel Micallef

Dec 27th 2009, 13:07

@C Farrugia

At least I referred to a 17 yr old.

The vatican accepts 12yrs old as the age of consent :)

And for the record a 17yr old is a child only in Malta, most ohter countries have 15-16 as age of consent. Check again before you call me disgusting ;)

edward bartolo

Dec 27th 2009, 12:55

The charge should be changed into a violent sexual assault. This has nothing to do with defilement, but was clearly intended to cause serious, if not permanent, injury.

Christian Sciberras

Dec 27th 2009, 12:51

CFarrugia - Protection against what? Why protect anyone not in need of protection, or even worse, anyone which explicitly doesn't want protection?
I think it's about time social departments (including education department) understood these incidents.
If you think that certain children, think twice. Because, some are not.
And from experience, I can assure you that some 13 year old's have even more "experience" then a 20 year-old.

CFarrugia

Dec 27th 2009, 12:41

@Miguel Micallef
sorry ta but this article is no reason to justify sex with a minor, a minor is a minor and an adult does not have the right to use a minor for his sexual pleasures, if a 17 year old wants to have fun and experiment with someone her age it is ok but not with an adult who is much more experienced and who will use her only for his pleasure. your comment is disgusting, minors should be protected.

Joseph Borg

Dec 27th 2009, 12:39

So the police have been closing their eyes for a whole year?? Surely this kind of behaviour should have been nipped in the bud as soon as it got known. what a shame on all who knew and shut their eyes and ears. What a shame on the Educational authorities for tolerating such behaviour and for allowing people in the school management who are there only to get their wage. And does anybody think that this vile act is an isolated case? How many others have been hidden by the poor victims. Heads should definitely roll for this. Let's get some action. Msay other victims also speak out so if there are other culprits involved they get punished as well while the victims get much needed counselling. Or is the usual Gozo omerta going to prevail. Shame SHAME

Miguel Micallef

Dec 27th 2009, 12:28

And then you get called (and prosecuted as) a paedophile for being with a 17 yr old because she would still be 'an innocent girl'. I wonder how innocent these 13 yr old girls, if they are guilty, are.