Updated - Two die in St Paul's Bay crash

S Atlamyob

Dec 17th 2009, 19:26

None of these poor people are at-fault. The fault lies within our culture and a general misconception that "it won't happen to me" and a blanketing lack of accountability from all sides. Kids learn by behaviors modeled to them by their parent/parents... and what they see is parents driving under the influence of distractions, a total disregard for rules if they regulate them, but the contrary if the rules regulate others, they're exposed to so much hypocrisy while developing, it makes the U.S. look like a shining example of democracy. Our lack of responsibility is not limited to driving or riding either, our cultural recklessness is applied to almost everything we do, whether it be construction, disposal of hazardous products, energy, noise, smoking, explosives/fireworks, alcohol, saturated fats, cholesterol, endangered species... If one acts like a third World nation, smells like a third world nation and sounds like a third world nation, many will believe that it probably is. “Now there’s your problem lady” Fix it.

J.Abela

Dec 15th 2009, 10:21

@Matthew Muscat
Learn how to understand the figures dude:

Those 80Kw of Power (110BHP) can be reached at just 4000RPM! Without mentioning a whooping torque of 240Nm at just 1750RPM

The power of a diesel car is barely calculated by a timed 0-100.. but by the pulling power ('gibda') which, one way or another, was demonstrated by the alleged 15 metre 'throw' of the Matiz AND the fact that it seems the peug didn't stop before reaching the middle of the roundabout.

And WHERE exactly did you find an 8 second Toyota Vitz 1.0 NON TUNED my friend? The s/hand japs barely manage 15secs esp with the auto gearbox!! Get your facts straight Matthew!

Graham Holme

Dec 15th 2009, 08:53

@
Peter Korsten
Safer car? the state of the driving in Malta,a Chieftain Tank comes to mind

Etienne Ebejer

Dec 15th 2009, 00:53

We can have the best Awareness campaigns and the best roads....but unless we have hefty penalties......nothing is ever going to change......! It is when you hit someone's pockets you start to see changes in behaviour. Fine them 5000 euros and confiscate their licence for at least 2 years and then you see changes in their behaviour.

Oh, and of course, this is just the beginning...wait until next wkd!!!!

Peter Korsten

Dec 14th 2009, 23:31

To Debra McLoughlin and Alison Vella:

Looks like reading is not your strongest point. I never claimed the accident was their fault. What I'm saying is that, had they been driving a safer car, they would probably still be alive. Ever noticed that it's always the same sort of car in which people die? Hyundai Accent, Fiat Siecento... they're all coffins on wheels. And a bigger car is not safer: a modern Punto is much safer than a Freelander.

If you knew them, why didn't you urge them to buy a safer car? I'm always telling people about crash tests, because nobody else seems to care.

You cannot avoid all accidents, but you can try to minimise yuor chance of injury. With all the bad driving in Malta, all the more reason to buy a car that scores five stars in the EuroNCAP test.

OGrixti

Dec 14th 2009, 18:53

Having a small engine of 10hp STANDARD ! Don't make you feel a cool driver and this may solve many problems, cause most of the young drivers just like to be show off ! And in our roads it is most possible having side streets and roundabouts every 100m. At least by starting from small engines will make less damage in case of an accident, starting by reducing BHP and top speed in unexperienced hands.

Alfred J Zammit

Dec 14th 2009, 18:49

@ R. Azzopardi I agree with you on that. Perhaps another system should be implemented rather than just taking into consideration the engine capacity. @Jms Cremona “if a driver drives carelessly it can cause accidents and deaths even with a car of small engine capacity.“ Then you must agree that if even a car of small engine capacity can cause accidents and deaths, let alone the high powered cars. :-)

Matthew Muscat

Dec 14th 2009, 18:36

For all those mentioning big engine or fast car for a 407, they are all wrong! Mainly the 407 is a 1.6 diesel!!! With only 80kW of power. Defiantly not a fast car! 14hp engine is fitted into a practically small, light car which can accelerate pretty fast, so in other case, we are not going to resolve anything! Some of you mentioned the 10hp engine as well, fine, we take the most popular car in Malta, Toyota Vitz 10hp as well, 0-60km/h in 8seconds. You've got a speeding ticket after 8 seconds. Still haven't solved anything!! The first the authorities must do is to check out what car standards are imported here in Malta!

J. Mizzi

Dec 14th 2009, 18:29

@ Police Force I passed near this scene. TWICE ! And realised what a waste our Police force is. When I'm parked in a public parking space watching a DVD on my laptop in the evening they come and tell me to move the car, but for patrolling our streets and keeping them safe they are utterly useless.

OGrixti

Dec 14th 2009, 17:45

In my opinion, as in the case of a motorbike, an 18year old can drive only a 125cc, in case of a car, these should be the same. A young person that obtains his license should drive a small capacity cc car, say NOT MORE than 1000cc till he is 25years. Why we have to see these kids driving fast cars, and than OPPPsss they lost control… Cause if you got your license you are still without experience. You don’t make your car test on an RX7 but on a small engine car. BY increasing the insurance for a person under 18 is useless. Daddy’s boys can have this insurance paid for them. They should start not insuring them. For our safty!!

Eve Johnson

Dec 14th 2009, 17:23

As an expat that recently relocated here, I can't but agree with the comments regarding bad behaviour by drivers in Malta. I've driven in North, East and West Africa where driving licenses are few related to the no of drivers, which may explain the rudimentary use of mirrors and indicators etc. But NEVER have I experienced the kind of disregard for basic traffic rules and arrogance that is displayed here. In West Africa you'd have to be prepared for anything as well, but that was about drivers going too slow on the motorway or wildlife suddenly appearing in the lane. Here it's all about passive aggression, bad self-knowledge and apparently completely untrained motorists with years of bad habits on the road. It's about time the driving instructors took their jobs serious and not just the cash.. I heard from a maltese friend that the instructor had told her to look in the mirrors a lot for the exam, quote "I know it's a hassle, but once you passed you can forget about it." Shocking!! My sincere condoleances to the bereaved.

Charmaine Marmara'

Dec 14th 2009, 17:19

@ ruben gatt. Well said Prosit.

Alan Quigley

Dec 14th 2009, 17:08

Imprison the culprit. Suspend his driving licence for a minimum of 5 years after his release from prison or compel him to take another test. Confiscate the car. On a longer term basis, ensure that those responsible for enforcing traffic regulations actually do the job for which they are paid. When I was driving in Malta, I saw very little evidence of any enforcement of any kind. The locals drive as they do not know only because they are arrogant and ill-mannered, and incapable of visualizing the consequences of their behaviour, but also because they know that they will get away with it.

Paul Falzon

Dec 14th 2009, 15:33

My sympathies go to the family of the deceased, whom I met a couple of times. They were very nice people who truly loved Malta.
As for the accident; people are blaming the roads, the roundabout, the type of car, the age of the driver, etc. etc. Just a waste of time.
The problem is more fundamental. Whenever I visit Malta I am never too eager to drive there, even though I have over 40 years of driving experience, both in Malta and several other countries. Just like Mr. Bahr, I find that many Maltese drivers are maniacs. They do not care about rules and have no respect whatsoever for other people on the road. They are very rude and act as if they own the road.
As for Speed Cameras, they are a joke. Most people slow down to the speed limit in the vicinity where the cameras are and when they pass them, off they go again. These cameras are nothing but a cash cow for the contractors or whoever owns them.
The Wardens? They are too busy writing Parking Tickets (another Cash Cow) and have no time to look for speedsters.

R. Azzopardi

Dec 14th 2009, 15:14

@Ruben Gatt

Your quote:
"Stop making excuses for a guy who thought he can look cool by driving like a friggin idiot. "

You've hit the nail on the head my friend. Bravo!

E.Zammit

Dec 14th 2009, 13:58

Primarily condolences to the family of the victims.

Daddy's boy?! that's plain ridiculous... Why shouldn't he be driving that type of car? Cause he's 18? Or what?
Can't somebody think that this 18-year old man, and his other companians are already going to suffer through the fact of thought alone, of this irrevocable night? They might feel already guilty through all these comments! No one knows what happens, so why are there all these comments regarding drunkness, irresponsability, speed and so on and forth...
Could there have been a fault with the car? There definitely is a possibility, regardless that it is a Peugeot 407. So this clearly shows that it doesn't as such matter the make of the car, brand new, old... What difference does it make?
Although the young driver may have not suffered any physical injuries, without a doubt he is psychologically scarred for life. So prayers also ought to be dedicated to him and his family...

Alison Vella

Dec 14th 2009, 13:46

@Peter Korsten - Your comment, sir, is unbelievable! So it's their fault for only owning a cheap, small, Asian car???!!! No comment.

Andre Caruana

Dec 14th 2009, 13:07

While it is true that most accidents are caused (or involve) drivers aunder the age of 25, increasing the age requirement for acquiring the driving license is not the best solution. If people start driving at the age of 18 and feel they own the road (although not expercienced drivers) and drive recklessly until they are "punished" by being involved in a mortal accident, this would still occur if people start driving at 21, 25, 30 and so on as they would still be inexperienced. Anyone, at any age can be (as stated in previous comments) a "friggin idiot".

I am in no way justifing the dangerous way that "experienced" drivers drive as drivers, cars and roads have their limitations and one has to be prudent and responsible at all time.

marthese mussett

Dec 14th 2009, 12:50

Just what is happening on our roads?I have four children and people are surprised that I don t drive.Hearing these stories(real life storie unfortunately) puts me off even more.What s more,when I m a passenger,I pray that the journey will end well.My husband got a ticket recently,because his car was parked just a few centimetres out of the parking bay.We should be more concerned about the maniacs we have on our roads.What an awful tragedy,my deepest sympathy to your families.

Donna Degaetano

Dec 14th 2009, 11:18

@ A.Saliba.

In my opinion crashing into another car and dragging it along for 15 metres is a clear indication of over-speeding.
Why do we have such a problem in driving slowly?? If a traffic sign says 40km per hour....for God's Sake drive at 40 km per hour and deal with it!!! It's there for a reason!!

Debra McLoughlin

Dec 14th 2009, 11:10

The comment made by Peter Korsten is insulting! The 2 people killed in this accident were friends of mine and best friends of my mum (who lives in Malta). If the 18 year old Peugeot driver had been driving carefully he would not have "lost control". The collision was apparently his fault and he has caused the deaths of 2 lovely people and their 3 sons have lost both their parents due to his alleged negligence. Wasn't he fortunate to walk away from this devastating accident with only minor injuries! I hope he enjoys his Christmas, Mr and Mrs Mitchell's family certainly won't.

L. Farrugia

Dec 14th 2009, 10:22

If there is any careless driving and the police mobile squad on duty is caught the attention, then the best outcome is to freeze the driving license for at least 6 months/ 1 year as a warning. If this happens within those 6 months, the license is frozen for good. People will have to drive carefully especially when there is the mobile squad in the near vicinity

Christopher Debattista

Dec 14th 2009, 09:51

Unfortunately many Maltese think they own the road. Just two days ago I was driving by in Bugibba and I almost thrashed a lady in her car who just popped out on the side street ignoring her stop sign. I was very angry but the driver didn't care and drove as if nothing has happened. These people should have their licenses revoked ! Lets get real. The system is an epic fail. You get fined for stupid things, for example a fine because your van is dirty. Yes, where I work we got a fine because our work truck was dirty . ITS USED FOR WORK FOR GOD'S SAKE, IT SHOULD BE DIRTY !!

Ruben Gatt

Dec 14th 2009, 09:34

This is a clear example that the Driving License Test is not serving its purpose, you study for the test but then when your on the road its a completly different story. Do not make the test harder, just make sure to have more officers and wardens around maltese streets.

Also do not put anymore speed cameras, they are a waste of time and money.

For all those out there saying the kid was driving slowly, one comment only "are you high???!?!", if the kid was driving at a decent speed even if his brakes failed the most that could have happened was a big bump maybe they would hit their forehead to the steering wheel...

Stop making excuses for a guy who thought he can look cool by driving like a friggin idiot.

Peter Korsten

Dec 14th 2009, 09:28

With due respect to the victims and their family, but a lot of nonsense is put forward in the comments.

Let's look at the facts. We have a Daewoo (not a Hyundai) Matiz that scores not too well in the crash test (http://www.euroncap.com/tests/daewoo_matiz_2000/65.aspx) and that is light, against a heavier, very safe Peugeot 407 (http://www.euroncap.com/tests/peugeot_407_2004/189.aspx). The Peugeot will protect you; the Daewoo will most likely cause serious chest injury. The Daewoo, on account of being lighter, will absorb most of the kinetic energy of the impact.

If both cars had been driving at 40 km/h, that would have been enough. It's simple: if you drive a cheap, small, Asian car, you put yourself at risk. But unfortunately, safety is never the fist concern in this country. Accidents WILL happen, however perfect you make your roads and however well behaved all drivers are.

R. Azzopardi

Dec 14th 2009, 08:38

@Alfred J Zammit

You are falling into the trap that most people (including the government) have already fall into. Engine capacity does not directly relate to power. Today's 1300cc engines can be tuned to give huge amounts of horsepower. Our roads are littered with little pocket rockets with heavily tuned engines. I assure you that these cars are the most dangerous not larger cars with large engines.

J.Abela

Dec 14th 2009, 00:40

@Michael Andrews

Mr. Andrews I totally agree with you. A 407, whether petrol or diesel has a very high torque and brake horse power. Mr. Saliba's comments lacked proper information.

Like everyone else here I don't want to put ANY bad light on the young driver since undoubtedly this case will land in court. However, when I was 18 years old, i only drove a small Subaru, which was more than enough for my needs. It took me from A to B without any hassles.

I disagree that licence should be given to persons over 21/25 yrs old. However, just like various persons remarked, young persons should be restricted to the type of vehicle they drive.

Let's face it, we first learn to walk and then to run.

Nevertheless, it still has to be decided what exactly happened. Saying that the Matiz was totalled, considering it's only meant as a city car and does not endure impacts, is not enough to put the peug guy under the spotlight.

Anyway, condolences to ALL families involved.

Rosemaria Belitz

Dec 13th 2009, 22:52

My condolences to the family of the victims.

Some one mentioned the elderly couple did a mistake to buy a "crappy car". I'm driving a smale car and everytime i'm driving i have to realize drivers of bigger cars don't like to drive behind me and overtake me wherever they see a little space or they just take my right of way. They are afraid i drive to slow. Far from it. I know how to drive a small car fast enough.....And this means that it's really silly to permit youngsters only cars with an engine up to 1400ccm (not 14hp). Some of this small engines have 105hp!!! and a highest speed up 180kmh. This is a speed which nowhere here in Malta can be driven.If everybody drives carefully it's no problem to have a crappy car.

In Germany new drivers under 25 get a suspended Time of 2Years. If they reach 14 points in this time they loose the licence for a certain time and afterwarts they have to go to motoringschool again and to make the test new.

It's silly and dangerous to warn 3times before the speedcameras because sudden breaking.

Jms Cremona

Dec 13th 2009, 22:07

@Alfred J Zammit
I understand your point but why should't an 18 year old drive a car with a big engine capacity just because some few irrisponsable drivers? if a driver drives carelessly it can cause accidents and deaths even with a car of small engine capacity. There should be more security on the road so that these careless drivers get off these roads.

Alfred J Zammit

Dec 13th 2009, 20:48

I happened to pass by the scene too late at night. It was horrific. Without going into the merits of this particular tragedy, I’d like to give a suggestion to the authorities (if any one of you guys happens to be reading this!!). Motorcyclists are restricted to the engine capacity depending on their age (for very obvious reasons). The irony is that on a motorcycle, the most vulnerable is the motorcyclist himself, however, with cars, the risk is much greater, as there's a lot more to loose in a collision between two cars or more. So ... I see absolutely no reason as to why the engine capacity is restricted by age for car drivers too, and not just motorcyclists.

Stanley Fenech

Dec 13th 2009, 20:29

@Charmaine Magro
The amount of contraventions I see on a daily basis on my way to work at Hal Far is far too high: overspeeding, exiting on the red light, driving while talking on the mobile, drinking cofee while driving, and reading the newspaper while driving, not to mention reading books to the kids at the back while driving. Yes, I've seen all these and I was not alone in my car in most of the cases. Believe me, most of them were not under 25, so stop blaming a particular group of drivers. In this country, drivers need to be aware of the highway code, and that includes ME. More patrols need to be seen on the roads and action needs to be taken somehow or another. I believe that if I can see such irresponsabilities, authorities can too.

r. camilleri

Dec 13th 2009, 20:24

speed cameras were introduced for only the sole purpose of profit for the contractor. everyone knows were they are situated and everyone slows down just a few metres before. than, gas mal pjanca once more! wardens and traffic police are there only for some poor guy who has his break light not functioning. our roads are free for the 180 k.p.h. schumakers, for the 20 k.p.h. on the outer lane snoozers and for those monstrous heavy plant trucks which are ruining our roads and atmosphere.

Marco Lia

Dec 13th 2009, 20:24

driving license at age of 25... are you mad !!!! in gozo there was a woman killed by a 46year old, so really age doesn't matter !!

i am 21 and i drive very carefully, in those roads there is everything. even policeman drive negligently !!!

the 18yo must be a daddy's boy for having a peugeot 407 however.... could be that the old guy fainted or something. probably everyone knows how it happened even without investigation, however it does not make sense for someone to say that 25 should be the driving limit !!!

Charmaine Magro... most of the emloyers ask us if you drive !!! will you drive me to work in that case ?!

Thanks

Michael Andrews

Dec 13th 2009, 20:07

@ A Saliba says and i quote "The Peugeot 407 is far from a "fast car", and just because he's 18 doesn't mean he was speeding or that he was the cause of the accident. "
NO1... a Peugeot 407 with a 2 litre engine only has a top speed 129mph which is 207 kph.
That in my book is fast enough.
The car pushed the matiz 15 metres away from its originally point.... so i doubt if the Peugeot was travelling at 30 at the time of impact (i stand to be corrected)
An accident is an accident and it will happen no matter what i think....it's fate,but some are truly avoidable.
I am as guilty as many others for speeding sometimes.i admit,so i must take reponsibiltiy for my actions if need be and so do others.

GiovDeMartino

Dec 13th 2009, 20:00

Ma jridux jisimghu mnni l-awtoritajiet! Overspeeding, using their mobiles while driving, ignoring certain traffic signs like e.g. NO ENTRY or STOP.....a fine 0f 5000 euros....u taraw kemm jitrabba ghaqal!

Victor Vella

Dec 13th 2009, 19:57

Right Mr Magro, steel spikes if you hit 70 Km/h what happens then? you die together with your passengers and anyone else you hit when your car goes out of control?I would rather make a show of force in the courts for anyone exceeding the speed limit and casueing grievious body harm or even death to others.How about a life sentence? How about hidden cameras? or average spedd test cameras? placed here and there without prior warning? This would stop everyone from overspeeding . It's a farce seeing people drive like crazy and then at the last minute they slow down to a crawl simply becasue they have reached the speed camera.Let's see lices taken away for speeding , lets see real prison terms for causeing death and injury due to speeding,and let's stop blameing age, I believe that a young driver would drive carefully and withen limit if he/she are guided wisely.Let's take them trough a speed training ground and let them realise how ignorant they are in controling thier car.

Cinzia Fenech

Dec 13th 2009, 18:59

@ Peter Bonnici
We both weren't present at the time of the accident, and we may not put full blame on 1 party, that would be ignorance. This was my argument, until full facts are revealed we cannot assume who is to blame. Obviously having the accident happening at a roudabout is it easier to draw a conclusion. I only said that there is a possibility that the elderly may have been driving negligently as well, but never did i entierly balme anyone.

marry barry

Dec 13th 2009, 18:53

Sorry but in Malta NO LOW!
no traffic police on roads , just some few speed cameras, u can drive after heavy drinkin, u can smoke inside the night clubs!, !!
SO dont complain is quite and no tourist!!!

David Johansson

Dec 13th 2009, 18:53

Would all the people saying increase age limit of driving etc please be quiet.

It may have been the young person was speeding,but you are guessing this until full details are available.The incident happened on a roundabout,so I cannot beleive the young person would be reckless enough to be driving at crazy speeds so perhaps the old people had a some sort of seizure.

Posting messages immedietley blaming young persons without any details doesnt help anyone.

Sad accident in any case and thoughts are with families.

Graham Holme

Dec 13th 2009, 18:32

Once again,a full scale,advertising blitz,on the various T.V. channels in Malta,may help to get the message across .
In the wrong hands,your vehicle,is a deadly weapon,please treat it with respect,as you would a loaded gun,
Please,click on the link below,shown on various T.V. stations in countries around the World
SPEED DOES KILL

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EmMNcOWhjWM

Malcolm Azzopardi

Dec 13th 2009, 18:17

I am deeply shocked and grieved by the lamentable death of our dear family friends, Patricia & Barry. My deepest sympathy and heartfelt condolences goes out to their family and friends alike.

Jimmy Magro

Dec 13th 2009, 18:11

@Marion Pace
i did not forgetthe ambulances. they should also respect the traffic regulations as it is more dificult to halt a heavy vehicle like an ambulance coming down St. Paul's Bay by-pass.

if the ambulance comesdown this roa in excess f 790kms they would end up all dead in the middle of roundabout among the palm trees.

Maybe you should try it yorself !!

s pace

Dec 13th 2009, 17:20

@Charles Micallef

You are very right. There are too many business and political interests involved for the politicians to do something. Perhaps a pressure group should be set up.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Not for advocating the rising of driving age. That is too draconian, and there are many responsible 18 year olds. But to raise by two degrees the sentences of fatal and serious accidents caused by reckless driving. As in the States.

18 year old is a person of legal age and should bear the consequences of their actions. Not the parents. Irrisponsible driving should be punished by jail, in what are clear cases of overspeeding. Also as a deterrence. The background of the person when not behind the stirring wheel and the age should be immaterial. The law has to make an example once and for all.

Larissa Portelli

Dec 13th 2009, 17:14

@ Charmaine Magro
@ Sara Borg
Are you serious?? Increase the driving age to 25years?? Just because you don't need a car it doesn't mean that others don't. People's needs are different from one anothers. Don't be selfish!

S.fenech

Dec 13th 2009, 16:34

For those people commenting yes we do not know if drink, drugs or even age were factors. HOWEVR i'm sure those that actually saw the aftermath will agree there is little doubt speed was a MAJOR factor any other "accidental cause " even such as a brake failure, oil on road etc although may have still caused an incident there is no way it would have been as severe as it was. and thats the lesson many factors we have no control of on the roads but our own speed we do if everyone could learn to slow down we wouldn't have such extreme accidents.

joseph schembri

Dec 13th 2009, 16:23

It is becoming ironic that you cannot even go out with your car, because even if you are on the right side of the road, you are not safe anymore. No matter the age of drivers; it is a matter of road discipline on all of us drivers.

paul alford

Dec 13th 2009, 15:34

stop blaming the young ones its the older people who should be responsable what can happen to their children.they dont check, if the car is faulty bad brakes or tyers.etc.the older genaration are bad drivers as well with no proper examination.today the licence is hard where in the old days all you needed to know was where are the brakes are.i dont want to be rude to the maltese people but 50 procent of them are fed up with people driving carlessly.especially in st julians and sliema. more cameras should be put in cars so they are photo graphed not build them on the street as they do. here in germany they have them in cars and dont laugh disguised as a dustbin or they have radar guns dont worry i had one last week.20km per hour on the motor way too fast 120 euros and 3 points when 14 points kiss your aaaaa to your licence for a year,

K. Vella

Dec 13th 2009, 15:24

I passed by the accident spot at around 10pm. While I risk to sound overly dramatic, perhaps, I'll admit I have never seen a more shocking accident scene in the three years I have been driving. The video doesn't even capture the large presence of rescue personnel who were on scene. I can't say anything about the dynamics of the accident, but it seems like the Peugeot (which ended on one of Malta's larger and more elevated roundabouts) catapulted itself.

I won't comment on the age limits for issuing driving licenses -- just this morning, it was a 62-year-old who lost control of his car. But having newer cars with better safety ratings within easy reach of everyone's pockets wouldn't hurt either.

L Camilleri

Dec 13th 2009, 14:49

Honourable Courts - Suspend the Licences and not the sentences.

m.zammit

Dec 13th 2009, 14:23

@C.Borg you're right

Marion Pace

Dec 13th 2009, 14:18

Who complained that there are many failures in the driving tests? My deepest simpathy lies with the relatives of the victims. May God give them consolation in such a tragic loss.
@Jimmy Magro "The road should have steel spikes that are activated if any vehicle is going faster 70kms', did you forget the ambulances? They have to drive fast and what if there were spikes?

Paul Bahr

Dec 13th 2009, 14:10

I am driving for the past 15 years in Malta and all I can say is that Maltese drivers are maniacs! No rules, no respect, rude etc. Just wonder what they teach them while doing the driving test!

Eric Camilleri

Dec 13th 2009, 14:05

@ A. Saliba
The Peugeot 407 is a "fast car" as much as its driver wants it to be !
Whatever you say, fact remains that a tragedy developed resulting in the death of two innocent people. Let us see you fantasizing how to explain to their relatives that the result of their death was due to their buying a crappy car. So what would have been the result if these victims where simply walking or cycling ??? You should seriously think twice every time you walk, cycle or drive on our roads.

g tabone

Dec 13th 2009, 14:00

My condolences to the family of the victims. We don't know exactly what happened during the accident so please stop judging the 18 yr old, the accident could have happened to anyone and it doesn't mean that he was drunk or an irrespondible driver. The accident could have been worse if the other 3 passengers that were in the Peugeot were seriously injured. His parents are not irresponsible as Adrian Agius mentioned in his comment, you should know these people before you judge them. This tragedy is going to affect the 18 yr old driver through out his whole life, so please stop leaving these arrogant comments and do not judge him.

Charles Micallef

Dec 13th 2009, 13:39

We can write as many blogs as we care to, as nobody out there and who is responsible and could make a difference gives a toss, they only care about votes and not people’s lives !

Charles Caruana

Dec 13th 2009, 13:32

I fully agree to suggestions from some that, as from the day that one obtain the driving license till some years after (to be established after study cases), one cannot be allowed to drive a car of over the 14hp limit. This must be included as Law.

Peter Bonnici

Dec 13th 2009, 13:14

@ Cinzia Fenech
How dare you place blame on anyone? especially one who was negotiating a roundabout? You clearly have no idea of the rules!
You are only right in your argument that this may have nothing to do with age, but more with ignorance.

Pauline Thompson

Dec 13th 2009, 13:13

Firstly I would like to pass my condolences to the family of these victims who have just lost their lives. M. Ellul why "stop blaming the young drivers as they know nothing about driving"? Can I just ask, if that is the case, what are they doing driving on public highways then? If one passes an official driving test and have been given a driving licence then one accepts full responsibility to drive a vehcile therefore is responsible for one's actions. What are driving lessons for? Aren't they meant to educate the learner driver how to drive carefully, be made of road awareness, other users and importantly that cars are lithal weapons - misuse them and they will kill. After that learners are tested - if successful then they are free to go on the road. What happens after that is up to the driver, be it young or old - nothing to do with the authorities.

C.Borg

Dec 13th 2009, 13:05

This did not happen because the driver was 18! I am also 18 and I find it extremely arrogant of the people who are blaming him for his age.

There was no mention of him being drunk, so why people are blindly mentioning drink driving is beyond me. The blame should be put on the fact that on such a busy main road, there are no speed cameras. Accidents happen, and unfortunately some have more tragic outcomes, but don't act like it is only 18 year olds who are featured in all the traffic collisions, because I can tell you, you would be very wrong.

Maria Fenech

Dec 13th 2009, 13:02

Anyone can cause an accident and often this is influenced by heavy drinking or partying, Especially during festive seasons. Naturally the younger ones party more, drink more. There are enough responsible young people though. I agree with Dennis Zammit. An 18 year old shouldn't get a speedy car, nor an expensive car, but that doesn't mean they shouldn't be allowed to drive. The wardens should be put at areas where heavy drinking and partying takes places like Paceville or Bugibba and not only at high speed roads. @Jimmy Magro Your "solution" has the type of thinking I wouldn't let behind a wheel, nor give any attention to in a court.

C. Farrugia

Dec 13th 2009, 12:43

I read in another newspaper article that the 18 year old driver lost control of his car....went over the central strip and crashed into the elderly couple who were manouvering the roundabout. THEY HAD NO FAULT!

It says even here that the Matiz was dragged 15 METRES!! There is no doubt that excessive speed was involved!!

Jos Vella

Dec 13th 2009, 12:40

@M Ellul
An 18hp petrol or a 19hp diesel powered engine to an 18year old? You are right the expert that are you are referring to is called Common Sense. The authorities should introduce a new law, drivers up to age 25 are only allowed to own a vehicle not exceeding 14hp. I was 18yr old, now I am 33; when I think of the way I used to drive I just consider myself lucky that I am still alive! Hopefully one day when you are old enough, perhaps with your own children as passengers in your car....you will agree with me....that are crazy drivers out there who are just between 18 and 25 yrs of age and have no loved ones whom they care about.

s pace

Dec 13th 2009, 12:36

M.Ellul, the statistics show that there is no political will to curb cowboy driving. Roads will never be perfect anyhow. It is useless blaming authorities. Only responsible driving prevent fatal accidents.

When an illegal fireworks factory caused a fatality to a third party, the minister rightly enacted harsher penalties. This is the second time a prima facie case of reckless driving caused fatalities to third parties, but the legislators keep irrisponsibly closing an eye. This will not happen in other countries. I think there is a lobby against harsher penalties for reckless driving. It cant be otherwise. Also, an action in parliament will send strong messages. But presently, they are not doing enough.

Education alone and mild appeals serves next to nothing, if not accompanied by sever punishments. Thats human nature.

A. Saliba

Dec 13th 2009, 12:29

A terrible tragedy like this and as usual people pointing fingers and fantasizing about what they would do if they had the power.

The Peugeot 407 is far from a "fast car", and just because he's 18 doesn't mean he was speeding or that he was the cause of the accident. The Matiz is a crappy car with a very low Euroncap rating. People should seriously start thinking twice before buying such small crappy death-traps.

Sam Camilleri

Dec 13th 2009, 12:24

First of my thoughts are with the family who lost 2 people in there lives yesterday may god be them in this sad...............the DRIVERS are to blame not the authorities as we are the one who drives the cars.....they should be stronger laws to avoid this from happening yes ban them from driving bring out a prison sentance fine them there are many of ways to tackle this............my car was wrote of about a year while parked in my street by a DRUNK driver who today is still driving no actions was taken by the police when this matter happened.........................we all know SPEEDING kills, time and time again we have reported people racing in St pauls and yet again no action was taken and yes these are all boy racer..................young driver i agree the law to change to at least 21 and they should be aloud to drive fast cars im sorry thats how i feel it time MALTA woke up to the dangers on our roads you want something done then do something about and stand up and fight for the LAWS to change.....................

Alfred Grech

Dec 13th 2009, 12:13

During the Christmas Season, in Canada they install many check points and these have reduced accidents and deaths considerably.

Drunk driving should be dealt with harshly including taking their licence for a considerable period of time and wardens should put more emphasy on high speed drivers. It may not may them too much money but it will save lives.

My condolences to the family of the victims.

M.Ellul

Dec 13th 2009, 11:34

Stop blaming the young drivers, and start blaming the authorities, who knows nothing about driving. It's about time the authorities hire an expert consultant and minimize the problems. But who are the authorities, and do they really care? The statistics are the answer.

Sara Borg

Dec 13th 2009, 11:10

I completely agree with what Charmaine Magro has stated and I am only 23 years old! I do not drive yet as I still use the bus to travel to work and do not need a car yet but I seriously wouldn't mind if the laws were 25 and over only. I have friends with younger sisters who have just turned 18 and go out to paceville, drink themselves silly and then drive their brand new cars home which i think is terrible, i do not trust the people on the road and yes, younger people crash more as they have a lack of mental experience, 18 is way to young nowadays i think. Nice suggestion Charmaine!

Jimmy Magro

Dec 13th 2009, 11:04

I suggest another solution.

The road should have steel spikes that are activated if any vehicle is going faster 70kms.

The spikes would tear off all four tires and send the car floating on its rims. Other wise one can also place bazoukas and shoot the driver.

Speed cameras do not work.

Our courts are living in the cart age.

we need a strong hand and not only a good of pair hands.

A.cassar

Dec 13th 2009, 10:43

I wonder then someone will take action in making sure that the road law are followed. With the festivities drink driving will only increase….are speed cameras the only option? are the Police force encouraged or even keen on making sure that the road laws are followed or are the traffic police only willing to push the buttons on the traffic lights? All these deaths in our streets are our responsibility as a community. However our community need to be guided correctly. Disciple in not a choice it’s a MUST when lives are at stake!

E Compagno

Dec 13th 2009, 10:35

Now here is an accident where speed may have been a huge contributing factor. One should be slowing down when approaching a roundabout..

Also chilling knowing I passed through there just moments before.

What a sad loss of life.

David Schiavone

Dec 13th 2009, 10:10

May god be both with the elderly victims families and also may god be with the young man who was driving the french saloon.

Adriano Spiteri

Dec 13th 2009, 10:07

What a heartbreaking story. Unfortunately these accidents will continue to happen. It seems that speed cameras will never deter certain drivers from accelerating. They serve as another source of income only.

Without putting the youngster involved in a bad light I think it is time we seriously consider harsh prison sentences to those who with their negligence (speeding, reckless driving...) end up injuring seriously or killing other fellows.

My sympathies with the families of the victims and the youngster who will have to bear the saddening scene of this tragic accident a lifetime.

Yesterday a vehicle overtook me at circa 120km/hr at the B'Kara bypass just past the camera. It was a sporty type. The driver must have been very irresponsible. I certainly do not agree with main road speed limits of 40km/hr but a tamperproof logger system installed in each vehicle is indeed a way of assessing how reckless a driver can be in terms of speeding. We have no racing tracks here. A driver's 'need for speed' cannot threaten the people's safety. Each and every driving abuse is a potential threat to other people, few of which end up victims of someone's adrenaline rush.

Larry Brincat UK

Dec 13th 2009, 10:06

While its a very a sad state of affairs especially over the festive season - Christmas- yet again speed seems to be the culprit and this is not going to encourage visiters to Malta and especially Gozo, infact its a bad image being projected abroad. i had this message sent to me from friends in Malta. My condolencies to the families of the poor people involved both Malta?Gozo and abroad, yet another monument in the invicinity of :-
NOT A NICE XMAS FEELING -

s pace

Dec 13th 2009, 10:00

S. Fenech

People will not learn until criminals behind stirring wheels are put behind bars, not the suspended sentences we are seeing. This is becoming a political responsibility. Politicians are failing for not making enough deterrence and protecting law abiding drivers.
Most of such accidents happen on Saturday night.

Excessive speed is criminal, and has no place on Maltese roads. They are no tracks. At lower speeds there is smaller probability that one loses control, and if it is lost, not such havoc is created.

Parliament is expected to legislate harsher penalties for cases of wreckless driving. Yes, and more speed cameras in where there is a temptation to speed, with heftier fines. What is holding to do so?

Vincent Magro-Attard

Dec 13th 2009, 09:39

This is outrageous! As long as people keep getting away with their crimes, we will keep having these types of accidents. When are the authorities going to wake up? Its' always the same story; culprits get away scott free and victims die! Condolences to the families of the victims.

Eric Camilleri

Dec 13th 2009, 09:26

Enough of this butchery ! No further comment as I don't want to prejudice the magisterial inquiry that will unavoidably ensue. Yet how many of these crashes or near misses we witness every day with the only difference being that they luckily don't end in serious injury or tragic fatalities as in this case. Our Parliamentarians should tackle this crisis at Parliamentery level and pass serious laws on dangerous driving. Serious car accidents, even when not fatal, should not simply be an insurance financial resolve, but should involve criminal investigations because there are too many so called drivers taking for granted that its OK that they can treat their vehicles as mobile weapons against innocent third parties.
Enough said.

CFarrugia

Dec 13th 2009, 09:24

unless very strict sanctions are introduced, lives will continue to be taken away, our law seems to assume everyone drives responsibly once he has a license, but several accidents in the last years show that this is not the case. persons caught overspeeding or driving under alcohol influence, should get just one chance and then if caught again, their license should be taken away, like it happens abroad. abroad some accidents can hardly be avoided because of highways and the high speeds, but in malta, on our roads, it does not make sense at all to drive at certain high speeds since the distances are so short. Why are people who kill other people due to negligence getting away with suspended sentences? They are even able to drive again afterwards, this is the real shame. my condolescences to the relatives of this couple. unless quick action is taken, it might be our partner or parents who are killed due to someone's overconfident and irresponsible driving next time and this thought makes me sick.

JGambin

Dec 13th 2009, 09:15

Without judging this case, the authorities should restrict the age limit of driving to the size of the engine. For example one cannot drive a car in excess of 1200cc until the age of say 21 ; up grading to say 1500cc until 25; I thought there were restrictions from the insurance side. Our thoughts & prayers go to the sticken family.

J. Tabone

Dec 13th 2009, 08:49

Really sad situation. Unfortunately I don't think there is enough of a focus on safe driving in Malta. Wardens dole out tons of tickets for parking but often ignore people driving recklessly. I think a further increase in traffic police and stiffer fines for speeding as well as licence suspensions for 'reckless driving' are in order, too many people either ignore or are oblivious too the consequences of driving in a dangerous fashion. My condolences to the family.

apgrech

Dec 13th 2009, 08:37

It's time the wardens concentrate more on speeding motorists than on issuing parking fines. It's also time that youngsters realize that Malta is not the right place to drive very fast and when they do they are risking their lives and those of others.

When you guys want to be heroes drivers, do it on computer racing car software and not in real life.

Dennis Zammit

Dec 13th 2009, 08:18

Why do these young inexperienced drivers allowed to drive high capacity vehicles?

In other countries, the age and the amount of licensed experience determine what engine capacity the driver can driver. In this respect, an 18 year old would only be permitted to drive a small vehicle, say with a max. of 1500 cc.

THis way, the risk of serious accidents would be reduced but not eliminated.

Etienne Psaila

Dec 13th 2009, 08:10

I think it's time someone does something to stop these cowboys that we have on our roads. If you go out for a drive on Sunday you realize what kind of people we have on our streets. Noisy cars and motorbikes passing you at incredible speeds. We are talking everyday about pollution and the environment. Isn't noise also pollution? So why do we allow performance silencers on cars, silencers that make them so noisy even at low speeds. I have a suggestion for the ones that want to speed. Buy a computer and a car game, buy a steering wheel and speed in there where you cannot hurt anyone.

Charles Micallef

Dec 13th 2009, 08:07

When are the authorities going to embark on a much needed “driving education campaign” for our Islands, instead of spending our taxes on the constant number politically motivated material that is sent through the post or the full page adverts published in the local press and paid for by the taxpayers?

A driving education campaign saves lives, while the other bores people to death and a waste of natural resources. Let us hope that common sense prevails and our taxes are spent wisely on publicity that is much needed, saves lives and makes sense!

Tony Attard

Dec 13th 2009, 07:23

I passed from the scene at about midnight and the cars were still there as they were being removed by towing .Very shocking scene.

adrian agius

Dec 13th 2009, 06:09

What a tragedy :-( condolences to all the family.

A small note if I may. How come an 18 year old was driving a Peagout 407???????

Instead of starting to blame the roads, first of all we have to start educating some irrisponsible parents who let their 18 year old kids drive fast cars at such a young age or else increase the age for a driving licence to at least 21 !!!

michael fenech

Dec 13th 2009, 05:14

We’re going to keep have these kind of horrible senseless accidents as long as the COURTS keep handing out suspended sentences(when there is a loss of life) like we just had two days ago.
The COURTS must (through sentencing ) get it in peoples head that driving is NOT A GOD GIVEN RIGHT, BUT A PREVILAGE.

Paul Barrett

Dec 13th 2009, 02:38

My condolences to the family and friends of the deceased and best wishes for the speedy recovery of the injured.

This roundabout has historically been an accident black spot and even with the re-build which has made it quite a bit safer, vehicles coming down to the roundabout from Ghajn Tuffieha approach the roundabout unprepared to slow down or stop.
A very cheap and easy method exists which would go a long way to preventing many of the accidents here is that at least two hundred meters before the roundabout the road should be marked with rumble strips (heavy duty yellow lines across the road which cause a rumbling noise as the vehicle travels over them, the lines get closer together as you get closer to the hazard). This has proven abroad to have a very effective value in both warning drivers of the approaching danger and slowing traffic down.

Charmaine Magro

Dec 13th 2009, 01:15

Instead of putting speed cameras everywhere, if the authorities want to reduce fatalaties , its about time the driving age is increased to not less than 25 years. This way, a lot of irresponsable behaviour and irresponsable drivers would automatically be taken off our roads. Just look at the statistics - nearly all fatalities concern a driver less than 25 years of age!!

Charles Micallef

Dec 13th 2009, 01:13

When are the authorities going to embark on a much needed “driving education campaign” that is so badly needed on our Islands, instead of spending our taxes on the constant number politically motivated material that we constantly receive through the post or the full page adverts published in the local press paid for by the tax payers.

A driving education campaign saves lives, while the other bores people to death aswell as being a waste of natural resources. Let us hope that common sense prevails,

Antoine Grima

Dec 13th 2009, 00:15

Just been passed the accident , horrible scenes. We need more police on the roads and harsher penalties for traffic offences. People can moan all they want , but us Maltese have no idea how to drive . We need a massive education campain about driving and try to get it in people's mind that a car in the wrong hands is a lethal weapon. We are not even capable of indicating when turning , and drive with beams and fog lights on when there is cars approaching from the opposite direction . Simple regulations to know , but very dangerous when not followed properly .My thoughts are with the victim's family .

S. Fenech

Dec 12th 2009, 23:59

i have just been past the scene of the accident it is a real tragedy and certainly the worst i have ever seen! when will people learn to slow down and not be so selfish as to wreck other people and their families lives. our thoughts are with the families of the victims may god be with them