Labour meets hunters

Sylvana Zarb Darmanin

Dec 15th 2009, 18:34

The ridiculous game I refer to is your being an idiot as to address me incorrectly finch!

You are expecting too much if you believe you should be consulted regarding the application of a derogation! Or, maybe, it is only because hunting is involved that you want to be consulted. Sir, the Government has the tools to apply a derogation for Spring Hunting in a legal manner, resulting in the Maltese hunters enjoying their well-deserved Spring Hunting Season. This legal formula DOES NOT include you!

I never understand your way of thinking. Using you absurd reasoning:-

1. Why should law-abiding citizens pay for expenses to keep criminals in jail?
2. Why should healthy people pay for medical expenses of the sick?
3. Why should workers pay for benefits to the unemployed?
The list is endless. The answer is because we live in a civilised society!!

Chris Finch

Dec 15th 2009, 14:55

Sylvia,
What game would that be?
And yes, if something is going to affect me and the other 430,000 people living on the island, then surely we can expect some consultation. That is the respect that is lacking madam.
No fines were imposed this time as they were never threatened. However, next time Malta opens the spring hunting season, we can expect a massive fine from the ECJ. My proposal is that if such a situation occurs, then the fine is paid for by raising the cost of the hunting licenses. This is surely fair as why should non-hunters pay just because some people want to act like savages.

Maria Grima

Dec 14th 2009, 22:55

I can't understand the point why some people argue,coz the PL only met hunters?After all this government was elected together with all the unforgotten broken promisies made to hunters and trappers!Yet the last mep election was the first election where spring hunting and trapping were forbidden ,and the RESULTS speak for themselves!And also not to forget how the green party obtained one of the most disastorous results ,and the other 'outspoken' candidtes against hunting and trapping had the poorest results out of all meps! Sometimes i seriously doubt if we are still living in a democratic country?

Sylvana Zarb Darmanin

Dec 14th 2009, 20:15

You are again at your old ridiculous game greenfinch!! It appears, after all, that you do expect that proposals for the application of the derogation have to be approved by you, eh?! After all the scaremongering by BLM and others the like of you, no fines have been imposed on Malta! Contrarily, the ECJ has provided the necessary tools for the application of the derogation! It might disappoint you to learn that any proposals for such application need not be disclosed to you! Finally I assure you that what I write is what I believe in. Thank God, I have a mind capable of seeing facts and I also know the meaning of tolerance and respect towards others. Furthermore, I do not resort to threats the way you did below. Grow up, Sir, and try to present factual arguments in a mature manner!

Chris Finch

Dec 14th 2009, 12:52

Sylvia, you still haven't answered my point. That no-one has yet proposed how the derogation can be applied so Malta does not get a fine. But then again that is typical of someone who just spouts others opinions and clearly doesn't think for themselves.

Stating those 3 points will not excuse Malta. No matter how many capitals you use or exclamation marks you put after each word.

p.s. its not being bitter, its just knowing what is right and what is wrong in this world.

Sylvana Zarb Darmanin

Dec 14th 2009, 09:45

Wake up, Chris Finch! The ECJ ruling I refer to is the one which confirmed that:-
1. Autumn is not an alternative to Spring Hunting;
2. Malta is not on a main migratory route;
3. The turtle-dove and quail are listed as 'of least concern.
THREE SOUR PILLS TO SWALLOW, SIR!!
The Maltese Government has been provided with the necessary tools to open the Spring Hunting Season! I am sure you do not expect that proposals need to be supplied to you for your approval or otherwise.

Chris Finch

Dec 13th 2009, 20:49

What ECJ ruling was that Ms Darmanin? The one which said Malta illegally opened the spring hunting seasons?
I still haven't seen anyone propose how a derogation can be applied so Malta isn't hit with a big fine. In this time of recession I for one don't want to be hit with increased taxes just because some selfish individuals want to play Rambo and shoot birds.

Sylvana Zarb Darmanin

Dec 13th 2009, 13:36

Joe Portelli, the Maltese hunters need not go anywhere to hunt because they may do this in their own country within the parameters of the law! Sir, you state: "because that's all Malta is , no forest, no woods, no mountains, no wilderness nothing." By this very statement you have further confirmed BLM's untruths - remember the millions mentioned? remember the massacres they claim?! Thanks for contributing towards hunters' cause!

G. Portelli

Dec 13th 2009, 09:48

"The working group had been set up to study EU hunting and trapping regulations and try to come up with amendments that would be more in line with Malta's needs, the party said."

Whose need? That of the hunters? That of the Maltese? or that of the Labour Party? I think it is of the latter. How low can we go? Loosing precious time!!

Joe Portelli

Dec 13th 2009, 02:46

Excuse my ignorance - hunters hunt. but hunt what ? I think the prey has become Politics (EU / PN / Green / Proud Citizens ).

If hunters want to hunt they can go to Papua New Guinea and hunt and be hunted by cannibals. That would be exciting for a real hunting deletant. The rest is politics, to call your cause Hunting, on an unsinkable aircraft carrier , because that's all Malta is , no forest, no woods, no mountains, no wilderness nothing.

But then, you know this as members of hunting groups are used to taking to boats with guns to hunt, as we read recently , two men were arrested doing such a thing.

Suggest you go to an archade and release your hunting urge on a plastic gun and remeber the others, including your relatives. Birds on the Brain (bird brains more likely)

A.Farrugia

Dec 13th 2009, 00:57

@Johnny Xerri
The only fools are those who think elected MEPs are supporting the hunters cause to have a free hand.

Furthermore, notwithstanding any double, triple or whatever votes you mention, your candidate had got, all I can say is; close but no cigar.

Keep on dreaming that now you have an MEP candidate championing your cause - you just might be surprised at what you will NOT get from this person.

I repeat one thing though - Dr. Muscat has made it big this time, by accepting to do a working group with environment desecrators and nothing with environment (the little we have left of it) protectors.

Johnny Xerri

Dec 12th 2009, 23:26

@ M Azzopardi,

Then we can also call the 2003 pre referendum & pre election documented guarantees 'hunters promise hunters spring hunting'

We might also call the secret 2009 pre MEP election meeting in Busket 'hunters secretly meet hunters at Buskett'

Why is it that when PN makes promises to hunters nobody ats an eyelid, but when PL does so we get a whole panic. Is it maybe that hunters votes are really important and you dont want to lose any to PL?? Well hard luck because if PL treats hunters better PN can say mia culpa because they had and still have time to give hunters what they had promised

@ A Farrugia
May I remind you that in the election you metioned spring hunting was still being practiced and although not elected the hunters candidate still got 3 times the votes of Edward Demicoli. Furthermore, in this year's election the hunters party endorsed a candidate which made it. The envornmentalists endorsed a candidate who also made it (not as an MEP but as a fool) which is frustrating considering that you anties always claim that you have the backing of all Malta

Johnny Xerri

Dec 12th 2009, 23:13

Pls explain & enlighten me to as why the PL finds so much opposition when seeking to help hunters get the most out of the EU regulations, but PN & MIC found no opposition when they issued written promises, guarantees??

So its wrong for PL to protect a sector of society, but its right for PN to fool the same sector.

Why not admit that you have never really voted for PL but now you are afraid because PL is doing the right thing by protecting the interest of people who were deceived, the same people who may now vote for who supports them and not vote for who they supported in the deceived referendum and election.

Hunters only want what they wee promised and guaranteed. If society is against this then the referendum & election is the biggest democratic joke we ever will have in Malta's history and we might as well say that in 2003 the referendum & election were not won by democratic voting but by manupulative dictatorship that is 'I promise this but then do the opposite'

M. Azzopardi

Dec 12th 2009, 21:21

this should have been entitled 'hunters meet hunters', those who hunt birds and those who hunt votes at all costs!!

Anthony Formosa

Dec 12th 2009, 20:12

Well said Ms Sylvana Zarb Darmanin.

@ Robert Callus, so you mean that in AD you have people like Nostradamus who predicted that the oil price will be sky high. 10 years ago we could hardly afford to build the terminal, what are you dreaming. But then again do you believe that if we started 10 years ago, today we have a cleaner air? Let me remind you, 10 years ago we had less than 200,000 cars on the road, today we have 300,000 cars and perhaps older cars as well, so what difference it makes the renewable energy? ask those people who live in main roads and see their house from the inside full of exhaust.

10 years ago we had much more greener areas, where was AD to protest, or was it just hunting that bothered them? Renewable energy is another gimmick of the century that's all it is, today thanks to the EU I see more plastics in our countryside then ever before.

Robert Callus

Dec 12th 2009, 19:05

@Sylvana Zarb Darmanin
"If as you state, environmentalists really put the environment as their priority, then AD should have long been represented in Parliament!"

You are wrong. The reasons why AD is not yet represented in Parliament are mainly
1) Many Maltese are too attached to one of the 2 larger parties and feel afraid of the 'other party' in govt
2) The 2 Parties especially the PN managed to make a 'greenwash' of environmental issues. No real change. See for example the use of renewable energy. If they started slowly depending less on oil when AD started talking about this more than a decade ago, we are not only in line with the EU, but enjoy much cleaner air and pay much less in our electricity bills.

Sylvana Zarb Darmanin

Dec 12th 2009, 18:43

A Farrugia, your usual presumptuous statements! Many Maltese individuals who are not hunters, like myself, are NOT bothered at all with hunting. Once agin, I ask you to refrain from including me and many others as forming part of your group! I am confident that Dr Joseph Muscat and the PL will ensure that the Maltese hunters be treated equally to their European counterparts. If as you state, environmentalists really put the environment as their priority, then AD should have long been represented in Parliament!

N Lawrence, are you actually referring to the written guarantees given to hunters by Dr EFA and MIC when you state: "How low one stoops, for a handful of votes."?!!

Chris Finch, is the ECJ ruling still bothering you? Now you are also resorting to threats, Sir! Wow!! The pro-hunting lobby's votes will more than compensate for your vote!

Mario Nicholas Pace,the many law-abiding hunters are entitled to enjoy their traditional pastime within the parameters of the law! You and other abolitionists have absolutely no right to deprive them of their rights notwithstanding your threats or the fairytale letters you are renowned of writing.

Anthony Formosa

Dec 12th 2009, 16:52

@ Chris Finch, the countryside (Public) that is left can be enjoyed by everyone and moreover hunters because they pay for it. Drivers pays road license because they use the road, and the have the first preference. The countryside is littered by people like you, and the hunters has to clean after every weekend, including those who own a private property. If in your opinion we are the MINORITY, than it's the MINORITY that made a difference in the last MEP elections and it will do the same next general election.

@ mario nicholas pace, we are talking about legal hunting in the parameters of EU laws, with perhaps some exceptions due to our size. The majority of hunters are also against illegal hunting, but I don't see any illegality in trapping. I can assure you that the vast majority of today's youths have no clue about hunting and trapping, biodiversity, environment and most of all our countryside. Dr Muscat should know that there are thousands of hunters and trappers which are also youths, and they want to enjoy what their forefathers always safeguarded.

A.Farrugia

Dec 12th 2009, 16:25

Anthony Formosa / John Xerri

One can also remind you that in the previous MEP elections, you hunters put forward a candidate who failed to make it as well. Pot calling the cattle black I suppose.

My point here was not to vote for PN or MLP but who not to vote for, in as much as one of them tries to give more rights to hunters.

People have had enough of parties giving in to hunters' requests. However rest assured that floating voters decide on who governs this rock - so if ever Joseph Muscat wants to be at the helm - he surely need NOT promise hunters anything except pretend he is doing something for them.

Mr. Muscat has already hurt the party by forming a working group with hunters and did not do so with environmentalists. It goes to show that Dr. Muscat is acting double faced here, like Dr. Gonzi does many times.

As regards voting AD - You wanna bet where my vote will be going based on the previous paragraph I wrote? Malta l-ewwel u qabel kollox takes a very different meaning to me to what the MLPN percieve it to mean.

David Borg Cardona

Dec 12th 2009, 16:24

@ Chris Finch...

"as evidenced by the slaughter of the herons in spring of 2008" ??!!??.. May I ask if you really have any factual evidence for your preposterous claims ??? As far as I know, myself together with all the other hunters were confined indoors in spring 2008.. So where on earth did this imaginary slaughter come from ?? Another figment of the anti's fertile imagination maybe ??

Talk about shooting oneself in the foot.. with all your wild claims and absurd sensationalism, you lot are doing a better job than we do with our shotguns.. Maybe you should take up game shooting too..

mario nicholas pace

Dec 12th 2009, 15:24

Pls Dr Muscat you are driving people like me away from contiuing supporting your party because of your greed to win the hunters votes who as you well know just want to keep on doing whatever they like I urge you to reconsider because I am sure that you are also losing many youths votes who are in the vast majority against the illegal hunting and trapping.

Anthony Formosa

Dec 12th 2009, 14:58

@ J.Borg. Just please tell us who is greener than hunters and trappers, MEPA / PN? with all the controversies? Bahrija / Mistra etc etc, AD? You see them once in five years? Yes we are the only ones who protect what is left. We are the real environmentalists.

@ A.Farrugia, You and your so called environmentalists had all the chances to prove it, AD the green party collapses because you are a fake environmentalists, than you also had Mr Edward Demicoli to represent as MEP who came all out against hunting and trapping and failed as well, what else do you need? Your calculations are wrong, is it just 20K? You forgot our relatives?

@ Joe Portelli, Indeed we won't.

Carmelo Aquilina

Dec 12th 2009, 14:35

"malta's need" my foot - this is about the FKNK 's needs... !

Johnny Xerri

Dec 12th 2009, 14:08

Why all the hassle if all that PL are doing is seeing that hunters get what they can within EU law. Is the EU law not enough for you 'environmentalists'????

@ A Farrugia come on the votes of the environmentalists. Its like 50 euro cent of candy, ask Edward Demicoli how much the environmentalists votes count.

If PN promised spring hunting in 2003 and every election for that matter, PL have always given hunters the possibility to hunt within decent rules and regulations and AD always and always promised to abolish hunting, then how come AD neevr managed to get at least 1 seat in parlament.

Simple, environmentalists percieve that they are a majority when in reality they are just a bunch of twits claiming to be representing all Malta with just a 1180 votes(Again ask E Demicoli)

Keep it up PL or PN by keeping dialogues open with hunters and permiting sustainable hunting within the EU rules and regualtions and you will get the votes of hunters and non extrimists environmentalists.

Chris FInch

Dec 12th 2009, 13:38

Mr Muscat, what Malta needs is more birds in the sky, more protection for the few that are already here and a safe and welcoming atmosphere in the few areas of countryside that we have left at ALL times of the year.

What it has at present is very few birds in the sky, even the hunters admit this because they continually say that in autumn there isn't enough birds for them to shoot so they want to shoot more in spring also, it has no protection for any birds that fly over - as evidenced by the slaughter of the herons in spring of 2008, the slaughter of raptors each season and many more abuses each week that the seasons are open, and no safe areas of countryside during open season, evidenced by shotgun shells littering the island, signs saying keep out or warning, even on PUBLIC land.

So Dr Muscat, listen to the MAJORITY, not just a few with their own agenda who's thinking lies in the past. You had my vote until you embarked upon this short-sighted PR stunt.

N.Lawrence

Dec 12th 2009, 13:15

How low one stoops, for a handful of votes.

Joe Portelli

Dec 12th 2009, 12:07

I suppose the brave hunters would not miss a chance to shoot down another bird brain idea.

A.Farrugia

Dec 12th 2009, 11:50

Joseph Muscat

If you/party give in as much as an inch to the hunters more than is allowed by law or lobby so that the hunters gain more ground/leeway (more than they disgustingly already have) you will be condenmed at election time by us environmnetalists which numbers are greater than the 20K hunting licenses (not hunters since not all licenses are for hunters and I know what I am saying).

The majority of Malta takes the enivronment and all that comes within it seriously, we also took note of 1996 A.Sant concesions to the hunters. We will not accept a party that sells it's soul to hunters in return for SOME of their votes.

Unfortunately for you and Dr. Gonzi, our votes count at election time as much as those of the hunters, only more people love the environment and are willing to protect it than there are hunters.

Joesph Muscat you are young and maybe naive enough to let the hunters manipulate you for their gain (and your party's percieved-gain). Assure you that our vote will go to the party that supports the environment, whoever that will be (The PN is certainly down in the gutters on that front,at-present)

J. Borg

Dec 12th 2009, 11:34

this is as "green" as PL and Joseph Muscat can get?

and i though PL found it soul!