Gold stolen in Zabbar parish church burglary

Ronnie Gauci

Nov 27th 2009, 09:29

@ Mauro Xuereb

"l-marci qeghdin hemm biex ifakkruna f'dik/dak il-qaddis/a li f'giehu qed niccelebraw il-festa u mhux fil-Karnival. issa jekk inti tqisom karnival dawk, erga ahsibha ftit!!" - Mauro Xuereb

Jekk id-dagha, t-tghajjir minn wara l-"purtieri", nisa nofshom gharwenin, irgiel f'sakra ma jarawx art mizbuha qieshom xi tribu Afrikana tqishom dan kollu jew xi speci ta` devozzjoni allura bir-ragun li l-Knisja trid tirranga l-festi taghna mill-qiegh. Bla ma nidhol df'ettal fuq meta tinqala xi glieda tajba bhal meta jien stess spiccajt taht xita ta` fliexken u kullhadd jigri, rajt anke nisa bi 8 xhur tqala u xjuh jaqghu fl-art huma w'jigru biex jipprovaw jehilsu minn xi daqqa ta' fliexkun, mhux se noghqod insemmi fejn gara dan kollu xi 5 snin ilu. Jekk qed nigdeb giddbuni.

C. Lia

Nov 27th 2009, 02:08

Ma nafx ghala dan il-paniku kollu, jien Zabbari u naghti ragun kbir lis-Sur Gauci, in-nanniet tieghi kienu taw hafna deheb lil Madonna mbad dan jithalla jinsteraq hekk, min jaf kienx ma dak li nsteraq, ghandna ma nafux, li naf hu li rrabbjati u mdejjqin hafna bhalissa l-familja taghna. Ghandna festa kbira u sinjura li tiswina hafna flus pero certi affarijiet aktar bzonnjuzi ma jsirux bhal f'dan il-kaz is-sigurta mal-Knisja u rikkezzi taghha.

Forsi li fost id-deheb misruq kien hemm xi weghda ta` xi membru tal-familja taghkom kontu titkellmu mod iehor. Is-Sur Gauci qal tajjeb ukoll li l-marc qed jiehu post il-festa go haz-Zabbar u dan trid tkun iblah biex ma tintebahx bih, il-hadd vera jkun hemm in-nies imma nofsom biex jieklu l-hot dogs u l-hamburgers Garden Road jigu zgur mhux ghad-devozzjoni li l-Madonna tal-Grazzja tant tixirqilha.

S/ Pulis

Nov 24th 2009, 18:58

Mario Xuereb Haddiehor ma jaghmilx dak li sejhulu defile ghas-semplici raguni li t-temp ma jaghtihomx cans. Allura jispiccaw gewwa u jiftahru kemm il-knisja tkun mimlija nies. Ahna Triq is-Santwarju jkollna ppakkjata hi u hierga l-Madonna... bid-deheb u minghajru ghax ahna lilha nhobbu u dak li ghandha fi hdanha! L-ewwel il-Madonna u mhux il-kazini!

Mauro Xuereb

Nov 24th 2009, 16:35

u inti Mr Gauci assocjajt il-briju tal-marci mad-defile tal-Karnival meta l-affarijiet ta mal-marci qeghdin hemm biex ifakkruna f'dik/dak il-qaddis/a li f'giehu qed niccelebraw il-festa u mhux fil-Karnival. issa jekk inti tqisom karnival dawk, erga ahsibha ftit!! U fuq kollox inti zeffint il-pika bejn il-kazini f'dan l-argument. Il-fatt li ma kienx hemm alarm fil-knisja ma kellu x'jaqsam xejn mal-pika bejn il-kazini. Kif diga attlek, wahhaltulna tikketta li dejjem ser tibqaw isemmuwa!!

Angie Borg

Nov 24th 2009, 16:34

Oh please Mr.Gauci, spare us this one! ... ma semmejtx haz-zabbar fuq id-defile imma ghidt is-sibt filghodu... so it's either zabbar, zurrieq or b'kara, all other parishes have their morning march on sunday and not on saturday. try to fool someone else! Rigward min ta deheb lil madonna, tah b'devozzjoni li zgur bhalissa m'ghandux f'mohhu u aktar f'qalbu biex jipponta subajh lejn hadd u joqghod jghid li t-tort tal-kazini ghax jonfqu l-flus fil-festa u mhux fil-knisja bhal ma ghamilt int. Gib haga quddiem ghajnejk u tieqaf hawn din, li min hu veru imma veru devot lejn il-madonna tal-grazzja qatt u qatt ma setgha jobsor li ha jkun hawn xi hadd li ser jazzarda jidhol jisraqha b'mod daqshekk lampanti fl-knisja. Jekk m'intiex zabbari bil-mod biex tista tifhima din it-tip ta' devozzjoni u m'hiniex qed nipprova nimpressjona, kull zabbari ninsab certa li qed jifhem ezatt x'qed nipprova infehmek.

Ronnie Gauci

Nov 24th 2009, 15:13

Tajba din gejt imkecci minn Haz-Zabbar, issa la darb'ohra ma ssibu xejn fin-nicca mbaghad forsi xi hadd jghid li kelli ragun. Jien mhux ghas-CCTV qed nitkellem izda ghall-bicca alarm, bicca alarm li ssibu mwahhal ma tlitt kwarti tal-karozzi u li ddahhal diga anke f'hafna knejjes fejn hemm affarijiet imprezzabbli. Ghamilt suggeriment biex affarijiet bhal dawn ma jergghux jigru u hadt il-grazzi, keep it up. Nahseb min ta xi deheb lill-Madonna b'weghda u li issa nsteraq ma tantx ha gost b'din l-attitudni Miss Borg u naf x'qed nghid.

U Mr. Xuereb meta jien ghidt fuq id-defile qadt attent li ma nsemmi l-ebda post jigifieri int assocjajt id-defile tal-Karnival mal-marc ta` filghodu Zabbari mhux jien. Nispera li issa ma jattakkawx lilek.

John B.Vincenti

Nov 24th 2009, 14:46

It is truly commended to adore one's Holy Idols hoever,
It is sinful to adorn wealth on an inert object even if it represents your Idol.
True faith and example will have one helping the less fortunate with such wealth.
Seems the thieves were "in want" more than "Our Lady"..... perhaps she allowed the poor fellows to be fed? ;-)
We hear of recent case where the Church is short of funds for it's charitable organisations etc. Well, now we know that they can sort that problem out before the rest of the bullion scattered about our churches are also stolen.

Etienne Pavia

Nov 24th 2009, 14:09

@S. Agius/S. Pulis - I pity you! I would like to see you selling all your valuables to give everything to God and let your families starve and sit down wondering at the shining gold over a statue. I'm sure that by praying in front, some food will be served to you and wonders happen. If you want something to happen work for it and if you want poverty to diminsh, work towards it and not stand still and hope that by your prayers someone else than your bill act on your behalf.

@S. Agius - i'm not pointing fingers but saying true facts and yes I do act in order to help, no matter how small my share is but it is something and not just words like you seem to be doing. You learn from the past to make a better future! We're going into 2010...and the amazing grand churches we have are beautiful architecturaly but they're not providing a home for the homeless. Let just the tourist and ourselves admire the famous architects only then...

People like you wait for others to make changes for them! ah..of course while you pray!

Sandro Agius

Nov 24th 2009, 12:04

@ Etienne Pavia - Tidher li ma tafx l-istorja tal-Knisja f'Malta....il-Knejjes huma li huma llum ghax missirijietna kienu joqghodu neqsin huma biex jaraw id-dar t'Alla l-isbah binja fil-qalba tar-rahal...l-istess dehbijiet u rikezzi, pitturi u hwejjeg ohra tpoggew fil-kuntest tal-fidi taghhom li Alla dejjem jixraqlu l-ahjar....kienu jibqghu neqsin huma mhux bit-tama li jixtru l-genna imma biex jaraw id-dar t'Alla dejjem isbah....dan f'kull belt u rahal sehh...umbat min qed jghid biex jinbiegh kollox ghax Kristu hekk qal....ghax ma jibdiex imur hu jaghmel b'mod literali x'jghid Kristu....Biegh kull m'ghandek u ejja warajja..imma facli tipponta s-swaba meta ma taghmilx hekk l-ewwel int hux.

Imma l-ikbar zball qed isir ghax qed niggudikaw il-passat bil-mentalita tal-lum, fejn hija facli tattaka l-fidi tan-nies li jiffurmaw il-Knisja. Dan juri nuqqas ta tolleranza lejn it-twemmin ta haddiehor

S. Pulis

Nov 24th 2009, 11:55

Ettiene Pavia
Meta lil Kristu haslulu riglejh bil-fwejjah (ara l-Vangelu) u kien hemm min qal ahjar taghtuhom lill-foqra, Kristu ma qabilx maghhom. Igifieri meta nuru qima lil Alla b'dan il-mod, Alla nnifsu ma jiddejjaqx. Imma hafna nies iridu jindahlu anke lil Alla!

Mauro Xuereb

Nov 24th 2009, 11:35

@Ronnie Gauci

ta l-inqas id-defile jsir is-Sibt filodu u mhux il-Hadd fejn hawn parrocci tkun hierga l-vara u l-kazin ghadu ghaddej bid-disco ta wara l-marc. Ta' l-inqas f'Haz-Zabbar, il-gurnata tal-Hadd hi nadifa minn kull briju u affarijiet relatati mal-marci. Haga ohra hi dwar il-purcissjoni ta filghaxija. Fil-parrocca taghna il-vara la tinghata lin-nies biex jaghmlu burdell shih biha u l-anqas ikun hemm taqbil u affarijiet simili quddiem il-vara.
Dwar il-kumment li ghamilt iktar l-isfel, nghidlek li jmisskom tisthu tibqaw dejjem thaffru gol-pjaga taz-Zabbarin (pika bejn kazini), meta z-Zabbarin stess ghamlu hilithom kollha biex jirrangaw d-differenzi bejnithom u saru passi ta ggant il-quddiem u qed ikolna festa ezemplari u tkun xhieda ta kif ghanda tigi celebrata festa maltija.

Eteinne Pavia

Nov 24th 2009, 10:08

shame for the theft...especially feel sorry to those who were taught to believe about giving their wealth to church go to heaven in the old days.

@all who believe gold gifts are good - why don't you give money, food or clothes to the poor directly? do you think your beliefs and gestures are gonna make you a better person by giving gifts to a statue? Churches become richer and the poor become poorer...as i said in previous comments, no poverty is gonna end with prayers or such gifts to statues. Direct action and help is the only answer!

Angie Borg

Nov 24th 2009, 09:48

@ Ronnie Gauci
a) I guess you're really missing something here Mr.Gauci.... Il-kazini tal-baned sinjuri u s-Santwarju taghna mhux sinjur?! You must be joking!
b) Can you please list all the parishes that have a CCTV camera / alarm in their church / sanctuary.
c) Last and not least, if you come each and every year to our festa just because you HAVE TO, please do yourself and all the Zabbar people a big favour and as from next year STAY HOME.

Ronnie Gauci

Nov 23rd 2009, 21:20

@ Roderick Vella

Soltu storja Maltija, bniedem jaghmel punt biex minnu forsi johrog naqra tal-gid u minflok nghidu li ghandu ragun, l-ghada ta` storja bhal din, nispiccaw nghajjruh ma jmurx din il-grajja tnaqqsilna naqra mill-antagonizmu, pika u briju tal-festa. Jien l-impressjoni li niehu meta nitla Haz-Zabbar, u nitla mhux ghax niehu gost bl-istil ta` festa li taghmlu izda ta` bilfors ghax il-mara min hemm, hi li l-festa u l-kazini huma sinjura mentri l-knisja le. Jien just gbidt l-attenzjoni li bla sens li tonfoq eluf ta` liri ghall-festa mbaghad thalli l-Madonna bid-deheb kollu taghha go vetrina li anke tifel ta` 5 snin jista jiftah u jiehu li jrid. Ghidt xi haga hazina?

Fuq gheneb qares nassigurak li dan mhux il-kaz, jien gej minn belt li ghandna festa storika, sabiha u devota u zgur ma rridix li tispicca f'Karnival bhal ma spiccaw hafna festi fejn id-defile tas-Sibt filghodu sar il-climax tal-festa minflok il-pellegrinagg tal-Hadd.

marthese mussett

Nov 23rd 2009, 18:59

Biex qed tiskantaw?Is serq isir KULJUM,Hold ups,xjuh imsawta f darhom,hwienet u tal haxix jisirquk billi jzommulek prezzijiet gholjin,jekk tirbah darba bil lottu,ituk inqas milli haqqek ghax jghidu li qabzu l kwotatkun miexja fit triq jisirqulek il handbag,gieli hallelin dahlu god djar u anke flus minn go karusijiet tat tfal serqu,jekk id deheb kien fejn jidher,jisirquh,mela qed tahsbu li ahna l maltin xi poplu qaddis? Anka ghal pakkett sigaretti jkissrulek il hgiega tal karozza....U kemm hawn min seraq lil ommu stess?

Mauro Xuereb

Nov 23rd 2009, 18:19

@ Roderick Vella Naqbel mieghek 100%. Jin jekk irrid naghti karita, naqbad u naghtija jien u mhux naghti d-deheb lil Knisja biex tbieghu hi. Il-problema ta min qed jghid dal-kliem kontra d-dehebijiet fuq il-vari hi li qed iharsu biss lejn il-valur kummercjali tad-deheb u l-image li jaghti hafna deheb fuq xi hadd, meta hawnekk ghandna kaz differenti fejn il-valur tad-deheb huwa biss sentimentali u storiku. Kulhadd jaf ghalina z-Zabbarin xi tfisser il-Madonna taht it-titlu tal-Grazzja. Dawk id-dehebijit huma kollha xhieda tal-grazzji kbar li l-Madonna qalet u ghada taqla lil poplu Malti. Dan mhuwiex kaz li qed taghti xi rigal lil xi hadd f'gheluq sninu bir-ragunament li l-aqwa li taghjtu xi haga, imbaghad jaghmel biha li jrid.

Roderick Vella

Nov 23rd 2009, 17:29

Sur Ronnie Gauci, Bir-rispett kollu lejk ma nahsibx li int xi bniedem specjali biex tiggudika u tikkritika lill-poplu Zabbari. Nahseb tipiku kaz li meta l-gheneb ma tkunx tista' tilhqu tfghid li hu qares. U la tigi u kif ghidt tibqa' tigi kull sena ibqa' d-dar jekk ma joghgbokx l-istil li bih ahna l-poplu Zabbari niccelebraw il-Festa ghaziza taghna tal-Madonna tal-Grazzja. Int min int biex tiggudika? :Min m'ghandux htija jitfa' l-ewwel gebla....." U ghall-informazzjoni tieghek.... iz-zewg ghaqdiet mizikali ghadhom kif urew BIL-FATTI kemm ghandhom ghal qalbhom is-Santwarju ta' Beltna Hompesch iddedikat lil Ommna Marija tal-Grazzja meta t-tnejn flimkien ghogobhom jirregalaw il-qanpiena l-kbira tal-Ave Maria lis-santwarju. Mid-dehra qabizlek dan il-fatt u ghogbok biss titfa' l-hmieg. Ma jimpurtax, meta naqra kummenti bhal tieghek ma niskantax kif hawn min jisraq dar, knisja, etc ghax hawn min b'ilsienu jaghmel hsara daqs l-aghar reat li wiehed jista' jaghmel!

Angie Borg

Nov 23rd 2009, 15:11

@RONNIE GAUCI
L-argument hu li inti qed thallat dak li kompitu tal-kunsill parrokkjali ma' dak li jaghmlu il-kazini tal-baned. L-ebda kazin tal-banda m'ghandu id-dritt jaqbad u jmur jordna CCTV camera system ghall-knisja sa fejn naf jien. Jigifieri jekk kien hemm xi nuqqas ta' hsieb min naha tal-knisja kien, pero' wara kullhadd gharef !! Tahseb li xi hadd kien tghaddilu minn mohhu li hawn min jasal daqshekk? U s-soltu storja kull skuza tajba biex intappnu il-festa zabbarija! Jekk hawn xi hadd li jmissu jaghlaq halqu huwa int ghax qed tinqeda b'dan l-att kriminali biex tattakka il-festa taghna.

Ronnie Gauci

Nov 23rd 2009, 14:54

@ Angie Borg

Jien nitla kull sena l-festa ta` Haz-Zabbar u l-impressjoni li niehu jien u kull min jigi hi ohra. Flus naf li hemm, il-problema hi li ma jintefqux fejn hu vera bzonn, is-soltu pjaga Maltija tar-wrong priorities. Ghaliex din il-famuza gabra qatt ma saret allura??

Li kont minnek tghid xejn u ammetti li ghandi ragun, vara mprezzabbli thallit tinsteraq qiesu xi hadd seraq il-helu minghand tifel zghir. Fejn noghqod jien il-Madonna go nicca-safe qeghda u diga kien sar attentat li tinsteraq bla success. Nispera li din l-esperjenza sservi ghal xi haga u fl-ahhar issir din il-gabra jew innaqqsu 4 murtali u naghmlu alarm.

Angie Borg

Nov 23rd 2009, 14:18

@RONNIE GAUCI
Sorry Mr.Gauci, ha nwiegbek bil-malti bl-istess mod kif ikkummentajt inti .. Jekk joghgbok taghmilx kummenti u akkuzi bla sens specjalment f'dal mument fejn il-popolazzjoni zabbarija hija ixxukkjata b'dak li ghadu kemm sehh fil-parrocca taghna. Li kieku xi hadd min naha tal-kunsill parrokkjali talab biex jingabru flus ghal CCTV cameras nista nassigurak li kienu jingabru bizzejjed flus biex indawra haz-zabbar kollu bil-cameras!! Ghax ghal kuntrarju ta' dak li qed tinsinwa inti, ghaz-Zabbarin l-ewwel u qabel kollox tigi id-devozzjoni lejn il-Madonna tal-Grazzja.

Kathy Elliot

Nov 23rd 2009, 14:11

Oh this is horrifocus. The worst part of it is that each and every one of those items stolen was a person's wish or a person's dream.

@ Mr Farrugia.

:( You cannot put a price tag on dreams, as you cannot put a price tag on a soul or prayer. But please respect other people's way of expressing those dreams and gratitudes. You are not the only person on the planet, and therefore your opinions might not always be the same as others', especially on something as delicate, spiritual and personal as religious expression. But that doesn't make anyone's thoughts more worthy than someone else's :(

Anthony Farrugia

Nov 23rd 2009, 13:42

Whats wrong if one wish to give a material gift to a figure representing our lady or any particualar Saint to be the property for ever to the statue, we all knwo that it is not our LADY but it is the same with photos of our dear relatives who passed away. We buy the tombs,decorate them with marble, buy flowers etc etc. It is a human way of saying 'thank you', we all have more of what we need, we change our car, we change our mobiles we go to the best Restaurants, we buy thing that we do not really need and try to get more and more. Are we jealous that the figure of our Lady had a prescious ring in its finger and you wish it was in your finger? Let there be freedom and let everybody do whatever he/she wants with their property to leave it to the poor, to cats or dogs or to decorate the figure of Our LADY or any other holy imags as long as it does not harm or offend anyone.

victor caruana

Nov 23rd 2009, 08:23

All thefts are condemnable. The same goes for ridiculing the memory of our Lady being adorned with earthly objects of wealth whether donated for this specific reason or not. This norm of putting gold on sacred images is a reminder of crass ignorance of days gone by or current day bigots.

Carmel Garcia

Nov 23rd 2009, 07:58

Min ser jikkmandani jekk naghtix xi bicca dehem lil-istatwa patruna tieghi jew xi ohra li nixtieq jien? Hawn tant li jahlu gidhom fil-loghob ta' l-azzard. Ohrajn jghinu lit-team favorit taghhom tal-football, tennis volleyball u kul delizju iehor. Mela hallu lil dak li jkun jaghmel affarih u tindahlux x'jaghti u ma jaghtix lil-knisja. Qedghin f'demokrazija shiha. Hadd ma jista jinfahal lil hadd x'jaghmel b'gidu.

Joe Xuereb

Nov 23rd 2009, 00:22

2) Time was when churches were complacent about security because common rationale was that, anybody stealing from a church 'would drop dead on the spot'. So everything was left there, for the picking. So no CCTV was deemed necessary. Times have changed. The thief has grown bolder. S/he has learned that one does not drop dead HeBut it was when lifting a heavy gold chain off a statue. Sign of the times I'm afraid. There was once a tradition (note the word) when front doors in Gozo were left with a key in the lock (safest place not to lose it?). Indicated trust too of course. But that is a tradition that has died out I image. Has it not? Sign of the times.
Burglary is burglary. One should not take what is not one's own. Do not unto others what you would not want others to do unto you. And if caught, the felon must not have his/her hand severed at the wrist. Would serve no purpose. Commonsensical philosphy. It works like a charm. And not a religious tract in sight.

Joe Xuereb

Nov 23rd 2009, 00:20

1) The veneration of a statue sculpted out of a piece of stone or wood is debatable at least. I have often thought of this. But it never crossed my mind to question the adornment through donations. I cannot think of everything. But bejewelled these statues are. Whether the donations are current or historical, it matters not. This is indeed bringing a statue to life for, well, what exactly? By adorning it with expensive old gold that could have been inherited or used more usefully rather than hanging there, a veritable white elephant round some statue's necks and fingers. This is obscene. I imagine these donations marked the granting of some wish here, some health improvement there, and so on. Of course it is a tradition. But traditions need questioning if we are not to be accused of being a nation of idolators.
continued

RONNIE GAUCI

Nov 22nd 2009, 23:21

GO HAZ-ZABBAR TA' KULL SENA JINTEFQU ELUF KBAR TA` EUROS GHALL-FESTA; NAR, MARC, PARTIES, TIZJIN ETC.

POSSIBBLI LI HADD MA SAB 300/400 EURO BIEX JINSTALLA ALARM MAN-NICCA TAL-MADONNA? JEW IL-MARC U L-PIKA BEJN Il-KAZINI SARU AKTAR IMPORTANTI??

Sandro Agius

Nov 22nd 2009, 22:52

I don't see that we should argue if a statue can have gold or not....it was another time when this happened....today is different. What I can say, that an alarm system must be installed in every parish church and if possible some cctv cameras too must be installed so that who do those things can be caught and brought to justice....not for the gold but more and more if they had took the Eucharisty....that would have been much and much worse

M Buhagiar

Nov 22nd 2009, 22:23

Ghalfejn din id-diskussjoni li n-nies jghatu d-deheb u offerti biex jizzejnu l-knejjes? Min ghandu dritt jindahal lil xi hadd x' jghamel bi flusu? Allura min hu kattoliku l-affarijiet zejda li jista jghaddi minghajrhom ghandu jghatihom ghal- karita? Flok tmur ikla f' xi restorant ghandek taghti l-flus li tkun se tonfoq ghal- karita, nghaddu minghajr ma nixtru deheb u gawhar ghalina personali, allura naqbdu bhala lajci inbieghu d-deheb li ghandna u natuh lil missjoni? Ma nghamlux hekk, imma malajr lesti bhala poplu li nifthu idejna. U anke l-knisja kattolika theggeg li nghinu ghal hafna missjonijiet u djar tal-karita.

Nahseb ir-risposta kienet wehidha go Haz-Zabbar ghax meta ngabru l-affarijiet biex jintbghatu t-tsunami tal-Indonesja, l-kappillan u l-helpers ghamlu turrun vjaggi ghal fejn kienu qeghed jigbru l-affarijiet tas- Civil Protection u l-istituti ta' Haz-Zabbar Alla jbierek dejjem sabu min itihom daqqa t' id sewwa. Bl-offerti tan-nies f'dawn l-ahhar snin inbnew zewg knejjes ghal bzonn tar-residenti li joqghodu fit-truf tar-rahal, inxtara post biex jintuza bhala kappella u centru tat-tghalim, centru pastorali iehor fix-Xghajra u restawr kbir li ghaddej fil-faccata tal-knisja bhalissa, kollha donazzjonijiet u xoghol volontarju mill-parruccani.

Waqt li nikkundanna li sar, nirringrazzja lil Madonna li ma nsterqux ostji kkonsagrati mil-knisja biex jigu pprofanati.

Maria Buhagiar

Nov 22nd 2009, 21:56

I did voluntary work abroad with the sisters of Mother Theresa. Their chapels are simple and bare of all artistic and rich masterpieces. Yet it was there that I really felt God's and Our Lady's presence. A temple is worthy to be called the House Of God not by extravagant riches and statues adorned with gold, but by the Respect and true devotion that the people express when in church. This is what matters in the eyes of God, and which, unfortunately is lacking in our churches. After all Jesus himself was detached from all that was worldly. And just because we have some traditions, it doesn't necessarily mean that they are what God desires.

James De Giorgio

Nov 22nd 2009, 21:10

Stealing is always wrong and shouldn't be condoned.

Somehow I'm sure Our Lady doesn't give a star that all the gold was stolen though.

Franco Farrugia

Nov 22nd 2009, 20:59

@ C Busuttil: Regarding the Pope: EXACTLY! NAIL HIT BANG ON THE HEAD! If and when I go to church, I go to adore the Sacrament, not the fine stuff that the temple is adorned with. If you do otherwise, it's your religion, your belief! I am made of a different fabric!

Roderick Micallef

Nov 22nd 2009, 20:38

Has any one thought that this could be a miracle? This is a sign from our Lady of Graces to let loose our material goods because they are not of great importance, that being attached to materiality leads to being enslaved in your own goods which goes against the whole preachings of our Lady of Graces and Christ.
I think this is a sign to the church to give away all or most of it's money, gold, silver, property, artifacts or luxury items to the people in need, to the people that really need them.

C.Busuttil

Nov 22nd 2009, 19:30

Joseph Masini

I agree 100% with you, but you have to understand that certain people can never come to terms with the fact that people who donated something to their patron saint are the first to donate for charity. For them its unconceivable as they have been used to the mentality that to donate you have to get something in return "istrina" manner. They expect the church to melt down its silverware to make good for the shortcomings of governments who are responsible for its citizens to live in a civilized manner. Its hard for them to realize that their political party Red or Blue fail on certain aspects therefore they find a culprit in the church.

These people think that a church should be void of artistic masterpieces in the manner of the modern churches that have been built, with the result that they are similar to a garage than to a temple worthy to be called the house of God. They go against the current Pope who is in favour of restoring certain aspects in the liturgy and artistic tradition of the church.

A. Grech

Nov 22nd 2009, 18:57

@ Clive Borg.
Veru li kultant isir plato kif semmejt int fuq certi affarijiet, izda x'qatt jigri wara? Xejn ghax illum hekk XEJN MA' HU XEJN u nzid nghidlek li f'dan il- pajjiz donnu HADD MA' HU RESPONSABLI... u d-dinja tkompli miexja..

Franco Farrugia

Nov 22nd 2009, 18:45

@ Mr Masini - You have it wrong, and on both counts, I am afraid.

ABORG

Nov 22nd 2009, 18:35

What about looking aat the real gist of the gift ? let's not deviate....the real concern of this piece of news is regarding the theft:(

Joseph Masini

Nov 22nd 2009, 18:13

@ Claire Busuttil: I agree with you that it is best to donate the valuables to charity. However, you cannot impose on the person what to do with its objects, at least if it's not banished (something which presently isn't)

@ Franco Farrugia: Sinful? Do you really think that whole generations have sinned by repaying their patron saint with valuables for the miracles they did with them? And have the ecclesiastical authorities sinned as well, by letting our ancestors express their gratitude?

I insist that this tradition (and yes, it IS actually a tradition) must not stop, even because it's actually coming to an end by itself (our youngsters have far more 'better' uses for the valuables and money nowadays!)

C.Busuttil

Nov 22nd 2009, 18:11

@Franco Farrugia
Are we now such professors that we believe we can we teach a Pope what to do ? The church has no right to re-channel any gift. The church is bound to safekeep and preserve its artistic heritage and Jewellery falls under that category. PLEASE KEEP in mind that those who donate these gifts are AMONG THE FIRST who contribute for charitable works.

The church has a financial burden to carry out its charitable works, which in all honesty should be the responsibility of the government. The church is only taking a role that is not hers because our politicians are not prepared to rechannel some thousands euros allocated for their travelling to institutions that need assistance. The church should stop being the "forcina" of politicians and point out their faults.

Miriam Ellul

Nov 22nd 2009, 16:53

Its shameful and disgusting to enter somewhere and steal what is not yours ... be it a house, church or palace! I agree with some comments that gold given by parishers ( which I am sure is given with sincere devotion) should be kept somewhere safe not exhibited on the statue ... after all this is only a statue (with all respects to Our Lady). One cannot stop someone to deprive him/herself of a valuable thing and offer it to Our Lady, but I am sure that the Madonna would be far more happy if all the gold was given to people who really need it.

Franco Farrugia

Nov 22nd 2009, 16:29

@ Galea and Busuttil: I think that you both miss the point. The Church, in fact, has a right, as custodian, to re-channel what it receives as gold and silver. Nowadays, the Church should NOT, repeat, should NOT accept this kind of donation. The Church SHOULD guide the would-be donor to allow it, the Church, to seek ways and means how to accept and use such donations. If the would-be donor doesn't agree, with all due respect .... let him/her/them keep their possessions for the Church should be poor and should not accept any more such donations. And as for past donations, I think that it is SCANDALOUS to see our statues being covered with such ornaments and at the same time, the same Church groans and moans about the fact that it doesn't have enough financial means to carry out its work and apostolate. I, personally, find it contradictory.

Andrew Paris

Nov 22nd 2009, 15:33

We need to stop dressing statues in gold. What is next a Gucci Cocktail dress.
Mary was a peasant and I am sure if she was here today she would of been appalled to be dressed in such materials that represent weath and greed. Sell the stuff and feed the poor with it. That is what she would of wanted.

Galea. L

Nov 22nd 2009, 15:04

Claire Busuttil and others.
If I have something and I give it or leave it for something specific to be done with it no one can order me what instructions I should give or to do anything else with it however worthy his/her intentions may be.
More specifically, if someone left a ring or some other gold to adorn a statue no one can decide to do something else with it.

C.Busuttil

Nov 22nd 2009, 14:55

@Franco Farrugia

You miss the point, the jewellery donated to the Statue is not for the statue itself but as a sign of gratitude to Our Lady for some grace received. You can't go to the Madonna at least in this world and present her a gift you can offer it to an image of her's. Pope John Paul II did this to a statue Our Lady of Fatima, Shall we teach a Pope how to act ?
You can argue that this gratitude should be of a different kind, lets say helping those in need etc etc However who are we to tell the person or persons that felt that they should show their gratitude in this manner not to do it in this way. These persons must have passed some terrible moments in their life and their only hope rested in the Madonna. Experience tell me that these same people are among the most generous that one can encounter in life and therefore they need no sermons on charity. What's important is not the gold but what they felt when they did or do this, it's what they feel in their hearts that is important.

Silvio Mizzi

Nov 22nd 2009, 13:56

Dan l-incident huwa kundanabbli - aktar u aktar ghax min kien ipprova jisraq anke it-tabernaklu.....

clive borg

Nov 22nd 2009, 12:53

How can a person steal from a parish church, surely he hasn't got dignity ,heart, How can you even try to steal from a church even if its open personally my mind doesnt tell me to steal from a church, cos if there isnt anyone i'm seeing that is seeing me there is God in presence.

@ A. Grech
pjutost ma naqbilx mijak li il-pajjiz, hi li sirna XEJN MA' HU XEJN meta tikunsidra li dwar il-festi inqala plato, fuq is-slaleb inqala plato, ghal photoshoot inqala plato - hekk tahseb li xejn ma hu xejn meta ghla kull haga jinqala plato...

@ Franco Farrugia
I dont agree with you cos people do give them from their own will, so it shouldn't be stopped. And with regarding to Zabbar parish church , its more traditional for people who have a miracle go and give something...

A. Grech

Nov 22nd 2009, 12:28

Il- problema ta' dan il-Pajjiz, kemm fejn tidhol Politika, kemm Religjon u kemm il-Hajja ta' kulljum, hi li sirna XEJN MA' HU XEJN.

Franco Farrugia

Nov 22nd 2009, 12:04

@ Joseph Masini: We shouldn't stop this 'tradition' because of what happened but because it is necessary that the Church, today more than ever, really lives the Gospel and the Evangelical poverty. I really find it degrading that we equate everything with 'tradition' and think that no 'tradition' can be moved. You say 'we must not stop from doing this' and I tell you that it is SINFUL that we haven't stopped 'doing this' ages and ages and ages ago.

Claire Busuttil

Nov 22nd 2009, 11:56

@J.Masini- Adorning statues with valuables is a Maltese tradition, and we must not stop from doing this (although it already did in many places) just because some delinquent has no respect for the church and its items.

comdenable act indeed( especially that in this case the tabernacle, was also opened), but I do not agree with you that this tradition( of giving gold and money to the statue) should be kept-money and gold should be given to who really needs them, if we want to help, and donate.

Joseph Masini

Nov 22nd 2009, 10:14

Simply disgusting and atrocious! Let the Ecclesiastical Authorities please take note and invest in CCTV cameras, in order to prevent such happenings to repeat themselves.

@Franco Farrugia

Adorning statues with valuables is a Maltese tradition, and we must not stop from doing this (although it already did in many places) just because some delinquent has no respect for the church and its items.

A. Pulis

Nov 22nd 2009, 10:03

Franco Farrugia
Naqbel mieghek fl-ewwel taqsima tal-kumment tieghek. Izda t-tieni parti tista' ma tkunx korrett mija fil-mija peress li hafna mir-rikezzi li hemm fil-knejjes ma moghtija mill-generazzjonijiet attwali imma minn dawk ta' ghaxieren ta' snin ilu. Id-deheb li kellha l-Madonna tal-grazzja ilu li nghata biex bih tizzejjen l-istatwa. Biss naqbel li fejn jista jsir ahjar nahdmu fuq progetti ta' ghajnuniet mill-parrocci milli nzejnu l-gebla.

Dan l-incident huwa kundanabbli - aktar u aktar ghax min kien ipprova jisraq anke it-tabernaklu/

s schembri

Nov 22nd 2009, 09:54

@ Franco Farrugia

I stand to be corrected but I know of no authority that insists that statues are adorned with valuables.

Galea. L

Nov 22nd 2009, 09:44

Shameful, disgusting and disgraceful to what depths people go.

Franco Farrugia

Nov 22nd 2009, 09:18

Condemnable. But churches must be adequately secured if the authorities continue insisting on adorning statues with valuables. Which I don't agree with!